Transcripts For CSPAN3 Hearing 20240703

Next we hear about Water Infrastructure investment. Officials discussed how the impact on your community. This will be about two hours. I am happy to be with my colleagues. I think it is an e i hope we remember to do this, its been a while. Im delighted to be able to be with my colleagues. I think it is a encouraging emissary. I feel it today. We did a lot of good work before we broke for the recess. Still plenty of work to do, but i am encouraged to open up. To get off with this. The committee house, oversight hearing. Drinking water and wastewater privileges. Today we will expand upon those efforts. Focusing on the Drinking Water programs. Nearly 2 years after becoming law, bipartisan infrastructure hoping to make clean water for millions of households, schools, child care facilities across the country. The benefits of this law continue to become a reality in more communities across america, our committee is anxious to hear from stakeholders about how you believe the work is progressing . If we can make improvements. Everything we do, we know we can do better. Investing in the Water Infrastructures is deeply personal to me. Growing up in West Virginia and virginia, my sister and i lived near streams like beaverton, not even 100 feet from our house. It was a stream contaminated by septic thanks and other ways. Later south of the cohigh rigor which eventually caught fire. Could not believe it. It did. Both of those experiences gave me immediate importance of water in our daily lives. Clean water is critical to our health and nations economy. As many of us know, to care for those who are giving those who are thirsty something to drink. I believe that includes a moral obligation to ensure all americans have access to clean and safe water services. Im not alone in that. President biden, and me and others, went to the oval office. Cast us to lead charge on the investments. Including highway, bridges, and Water Systems. We rolled up our sleeves, we got to work after that meeting. I along with the staff worked together for the draft for the Water Infrastructure act. We got it passed unanimously. 892 though. I will never forget that day. I can write to our committee. We are enormously proud. Highway legislation, bipartisan infrastructure. Signed into law in 2021. What a day. To date, the infrastructure law is the single largest investment for Water Infrastructure in the nations history. We invested 55 billion to improve wasteWater Systems and Drinking Water throughout the country. Addressing contaminants. It was fully paid for. There is more that needs to be done. And more that can be done. My hope that todays hearing will allow us to gain a deeper understanding of the amplification of how it is going. We also have the chance to explore future opportunities to improve the infrastructure. Make sure that the laws programs are benefiting communities with the greatest need. Im excited to hear from all of the witnesses, i want to welcome back keisha to the pw committee. Testified it. Her testimony was instrumental to move the package forward and we look forward to hearing your perspective on the loss implementation. It is not our first hearing. Examining the infrastructure needs, it wont be the last either. As you recall earlier this year we had held a meeting that with apa administration, radical fox. I love to say that name. Just this past may, senators, held a water affordability meeting. Looking at the Assistance Programs, additional changes might be necessary to make those programs function even better. Later this month, the same subcommittee looked at tribal water needs. I hope the series of hearings will help inform us of what more we can do to ensure these programs continue to get even better as we face changes in our climate, population, and infrastructure needs. With that, i am grateful for the witnesses to agree to be witnesses. Representing state perspectives, before we do that, we will hear from ranking members for opening remarks. Thank you. Its great to be back. I hope you had a nice break. This is a great opportunity for the committee to get an update from stakeholders on the progress as the chairman has outlined out very explicitly. I thank all of you for being here, some of which we have seen before. It is nice to see you back in front of the committee. Todays hearing will focus on the critical importance of safe and efficient drinking and wasteWater Systems. It is vital that all americans have access to reliable water and sanitation that they can afford. The Drinking Water and wasteWater Infrastructure act offered by this committee is a critical component of the investment and jobs act. It has introduced new programs and opportunities for the current needs and challenges for rural and his advantage communities. We will examine the current state of Water Resources and the challenges we face safeguarding them. It was meant to ensure that every individual has access to clean and healthy Drinking Water and wastewater. How other policies may help or hinder unity efforts to provide. Authorize 55 billion funding for lead Service Line Replacement and support for innovative water technology. The aija recognizes many communities are struggling with emerging contaminants such as p5. Small rural and disadvantage often ask Technical Expertise to tackle these challenges, leaving them vulnerable to Water Quality issues and Public Health risk. They offer opportunities for grants, low interest loans and technical systems to help ease these burdens. It is crucial to ensure resources are directed toward the communities that are most in need based on actual Public Health and environmental risks. The federal government will also provide the necessary Technical Assistance and training to support these programs. Many of the small communities do not have Technical Expertise. However, i have concerns regarding the epas to direct from congress substantial investments to the nations Water Infrastructure. The apa has repeatedly tried to impose his policies priorities on communities often in violation of the 30s reserved to them under the clean water act. Obligations to meet vague Environmental Justice goals and inconsistent and untimely waivers have led to delays, cost overruns and legal uncertainty. These are necessary obstacles opposed by federal regulators are inappropriate when elevated inflation eats away at Infrastructure Investments that the American People need and were demanded of congress. Additional threats may come from other environmental regulations. In particular, failure to provide reLiability Protections for Water Systems will slam Water Systems and will only enrich trial attorneys. We discussed it, West Virginia had to deal with pfass contamination. Both industrial and military sites with two major sources naturally. It is had broad bipartisan support over the years. That is why i find it perplexing to hear that environmental groups are actively lobbying against protections for Water Systems and other passage receivers. With p fives going back decades and protection for the Drinking Water, there will be an increasing need to protect the water system which had no hand in creating or no benefit from these chemicals. Maximizing the benefits of the aa ja investment. With everybody in attendance, water and fracture. Environmental health and economic development. The successes we have had to date have been based in cooperative federalism for the clean water acts. Communities and states know their needs the best. They need a helping hand from the government that not a heavy hand. Thank you for all you do to keep the water system clean, healthy, and i look forward to hearing from you. Thank you. Im going to introduced they will introduce, powell. Turning to secretary hes the secretary of the North Carolina department of environmental quality. My wife sends her best. The position you hold is a position since Governor Cooper appointed you about three years ago in 2021. This is your second tour of duty at the agency. Served as the department of legislator. August of 2023, she was elected to serve as president of the Environmental Council of state. Nonpartisan Association Environmental agency leaders, working to improve capability of agencies. Im delighted you are here. Thank you for joining us. Maybe i should introduce the other two . We will hold off. Go ahead. We will come back to introduce ms. Powell and introduce eric. Thank you. Members of the committee, i appreciate the opportunity to be here today. The investment and jobs act, and investment that has helped enable the infrastructure. One of North Carolinas top rarities, to ensure everyone in the state has access to clean Drinking Water and reliable Water Infrastructure. Without that, nothing else matters. I want to start out to share a story about the community of in North Carolina. The residents have been fighting for decades for the chance to enact the Public Water System. We had an opportunity to hear from the residents about what it was like knowing when they wash white clothes that they would come out brown from the well water. When it got cold, the water pump would go out and a lot of times it would not have water at all. In 2022, thanks to federal funding, we awarded 13. 2 million grant to run 40 miles of water line to connect the hundred 50 homes to the county water system for the first time. Other systems in our state are failing infrastructure. Pumping stations that are being inundated as we have more frequent storm events. Some are serviced by terra cotta pipes or in liberty, North Carolina, they have orangeburg lines. It basically is wood pulp filled with her. They are disintegrating in the ground. Its vital that we can find the needs to improve resiliency of the system and to help the residents. I will add that North Carolina had a head start on handling large sums of infrastructure dollars. The state leaders chose to allocate a significant portion of the dollars to water and for structure. 1. 9 billion. The first thing we did was evaluate processes. Its easy to send money, but the challenge is to invest it well. To ensure the record amount of funding we received reach the communities like this, we ever imagined the grant making process. We canvassed every Health County department to those who did not have access to clean Drinking Water. We conducted outreach to nearby facilities to ensure they knew about these communities and encouraged them to do project connect. We want to make sure it was not just the wellfunded biggest utilities that were ready to go. We give everybody in North Carolina the opportunity to benefit from these dollars. Im proud to say the changes are resulting in more than 2000 homes being connected to public water for the first time. North carolina also has significant levels of p fast contamination. We especially worry about the cost and burden on our small towns that cannot afford the additional cost associated with treatment without outside help. Epa administrator, came to North Carolina, a small town that discovered high levels of pfas contamination. Illustrating the type of community it intended to help. The facility in North Carolina gave us early experience to deal with pfas was discovered in the river in 2017, we recognized pfas is larger than one company or chemical. We have been working with public Water Systems to assess pfas levels and help prepare for Upcoming National Drinking Water standards. We have identified 43 of county Drinking Water systems that served 3 Million People that will need to take action in order to come to clients with the proposed protections. We are learning from and working with the public Water Systems already set up. I will give you an example of the cape fear of authority who spent 43 million on installation of a granular filtration system to treat pfas coming from the river. From their experience, we know the testing and planning has to take place before you are ready to construct a treatment system. The work can take a year to do. To help other utilities prepare , we are making a significant portion of the early rounds of contaminant funding from, healthy systems identify and design the best Treatment Systems for their situation. We appreciate the 23 million per year, every five years, that they are receiving from urging contaminant. This shows how much we will need. What we are getting so far is just scratching the surface. We estimate that just for our state, it will take between 661 million and one great 1. 3 billion. That number does not take into account the number of small Water Systems which we are currently testing. All of this is on top of our normal Water Infrastructure needs because we have not invested for too long. 26 million over the next 20 years. This reinforces the importance of the committees work and of the state Revolving Funds. I recognize that this is the policy and not appropriations committee. As the newly elected president , i would like to bring the committee the longterm threat that is being imposed with the appropriation bills. We are concerned about these developments using congressionally directed spending out of these funds. To promote cuts would be devastating for the states capacity to cover these needs and it is crucial to protect Public Health and the environment throughout the country. Using the appropriations can offset cuts in the federal funding, it undermines the opportunity provided by the legislation. It was intended to extend affordable to more communities than ever before. Is not the time to take our foot off the gas pedal. We will never stop working to ensure we all have reliable Drinking Water and infrastructure. Thank you for allowing me to be here today. Since you have been elected, do you prefer to be called, president , madam president , or madame secretary . Secretary, is fine good enough. Chairman, it is a pleasure to have keisha with us. Her help in the work of this committee has been greatly appreciated. Shes a Dynamic Force in the global water sector for 24 years. In the public and private sector across the United States. And, london, england. She is the general manager and ceo of the Washington Suburban commission. Thats the largest Water Utility in the state of maryland. She manages 1680 team members. The daytoday operations of the Water Systems. 1. 9 million customers. Its an incredible responsibility that she has. She has demonstrated great leadership in that regard. She is a licensed professional engineer in maryland. We always give plugs to the Great Schools in maryland. I want to thank her, the mayor Just Announced his appointments to the task force set up for the Regional Task force in baltimore. The Sanitary Commission does not have jurisdiction in baltimore, but she is lending her expertise because we need to find the best way to manage our Water Systems in the baltimore area. I thank her for the willingness to serve. Thank you for being with us today. Ms. Paul, you are recognized. It is good to be raised and educated in baltimore. Good morning and thank you. Thank you for the invitation to testify. I am keisha powell, i would like to recognize the board of commissioners and chair, regina. We have the honor of serving more than issue here . Shes not. We have the honor of serving more than 1. 9 million customers across Montgomery County as the largest Water Utility in the state of maryland. The eighth largest in the country. The scale of utility differs across the water sector, we all seek similar challenges. The need to balance affordability with investments and critical infrastructure. For the passage of the Infrastructure Investments and jobs act, made us hopeful that the historic funding levels would unlock the ability to ramp up required investments. Thank you Committee Members for your leadership and vision. I am happy to report that we see progress because of the. We have received 60. 3 million because of the increased appropriations funding. With over 30 being given in loan forgiveness. Most notably, we will receive just over 105 million from state Revolving Fund in the coming year for Main Replacement projects. Inventory replacement. The bio energy project. And sanitary sewer reconstruction. Thank you senator for your support in leadership and advancing the crucial projects. Progress is being made thanks to the single largest investment in the history of the United States, the hard reality is that we are still behind when it comes to having the necessary funding required for Infrastructure Investment needs. We are truly trinkle the one investment was only 5 of the funding needed for our sector. Epa estimates and investment needed of 750 billion over the next 20 years just to maintain the existing nations Drinking Water and wasteWater Infrastructure. Historic decreases of federal funding, aging ever structure, climate and cyber threats, and contaminants, widens the funding gap. One of the most expensive issues we face, the presence of pfas contaminating the Water Supplies and threatening Waters Mission to protect Public Health and maintain our track record of zero Water Quality violations in our 105 year history. We are committed to continuing this level of excellence, despite our costs of pfas compliance of more than 1 billion for Drinking Water alone. We are equally concerned about the potential financial operational and Compliance Risk associated with pfas and wastewater and bio. Thats why we must hold the polluters financial responsible and not leave the customers the shoulder this burden. These factors have led to increasingly unaffordable water bills for families across the u. S. According to the department of health and human services, water is the Fastest Growing household utility cost nationwide. The Congressional Budget Office report said over 90 of Water Infrastructure in the u. S. Is funded locally. Much higher than other types of infrastructure like roads and transit. I drink this committee for authorizing the creation of a water can muster the System Program and providing 1. 1 million in various Program Relief packages for program. Since 2020, weve been able to provide over 10 million in financial assistance, including nearly 4 million from the low Income Household Water Assistant Program to assist more than 5500 customers. They pay program has never been funded and the program will soon expire without additional funding, ending the critical lifeline. We must permanently fund access to water and equally critical resources. In behalf of, i thank Committee Members for your support and pledge to work with you to address the water sectors challenges in the years to come to protect Public Health, create jobs, enhance economic growth, safeguard our environment, and drive equity. This concludes my testimony. I will be happy to answer any questions. Thanks so much. Before senator kramer introduces the next, i want to say to my colleague, kevin, hes back on the campus of the university of delaware last month and had the opportunity to speak. About the intersection of federal policy and what were trying to accomplish. We talked little bit about sports and the upcoming football season that is underway. We talked about the north dakota state, i asked her staff to share with me some football scores from north dakota state and delaware the last couple of years, came up with september of 2019, north dakota state, 47. September 18, university of delaware, 10. North dakota state, 38. Basketball gets worse. 66 and north dakota state, 85. It is an honor for me to introduce eric, who serves as the executive director of the water system association. He has a staff of 11 professionals who oversee, filled with 300 Water Systems in the state and wasteWater Systems. Onsite troubleshooting. Emergency response. Workforce challenges, just to name a few. The assistance provided by eric and his team to my staff and me has been invaluable. Its part of what makes a Partnership Work so well. He also serves on several boards, including north dakota water coalition. The education foundation, the chair of the water works association. I do not know what he does in his spare time, but he holds a bachelor degree in biology. Is a two time member of the hall of fame. Eric, is an excellent resource to me and my staff. We appreciate him being here and offering his expertise. Thanks for the introduction. Good morning. My name is, eric vaux. The association was established in 1974 and provides technical, managerial, training advocacy for rural water and wasteWater Systems in the state. A huge thanks goes to my staff who work every day to afford quality water. The implementation of the Drinking Water and wastewater act. I grew up in north dakota. Around 240 residents so this topic is near and dear. Im here in behalf of the National Rural water association. The largest Utility Association with over 1000 members dedicated to Environmental Protection in all 50 states. I enjoyed living in North Carolina, north dakota, my whole life. With 306 active community Water Systems. 296 of them serve last and 10,000 in population. Meetings of demands of repairing and replacing aging infrastructure is taking its toll on many soft. The challenge for the migration, which continues to increase the population base adding to the cost of these services to the individual consumer without federal grant funding, the cost would be too much for the average family to afford. In 2020, the association partnered with the Water Resources to survey the water supply needs. The result indicated a tenyear need of approximately 2. 1 billion and a 20 year need of 3. 6 million. The program intended use plan shows the need of about 1. 1 billion with demands on the clean water side being similar. A state only has 280,000 residents. Preparing for this visit, engineers and suppliers of provided snapshots, first and foremost, they are appreciative of investments being made on the federal level to help citizens. Several systems talked about the shortage of contractors. A key factor contributed to the shortage is labor. It is require reductions in the number of crews that they can operate and limits the scope of work. There is a sense with funding available for all infrastructure with some contractors not being as hungry as they were before. The cost of pipe and fitting has dramatically increased since 2019. Certain pipe has increased over 200 . The cost of installing a fire hydrant that serves 135 people has doubled since 2020. Now more than 15,000. Various products such as meters, certain valves, drives, generators, have extremely long wait times. One system has waited a year and a half for a pressure reducing valve. The availability is improving slowly, manufacturers required to expand facilities, has driven down leadtimes. Overall the cost is increasing and is hard for small systems to properly plan for and complete projects under the circumstances. Another aspect of the i aj, the provisions set aside included by this committee to help communities that lack the financial managerial and technical capacity to access these programs. Rural water is proud to be the resource for these disadvantaged and tribal agencies. Safely operating the utilities. Regulatory burdens running pfas are another challenge facing the water system which we are extremely supportive of the water system pfas Liability Protection act, this legislation aligns with the goals shared with all rural. Preserving the asenjo polluter principal for cleanups under the superfund law. Finally, the water sector work problem is daunting with over 50 of our water workers estimated to leave the next 10 years. Alongside, strong side, rural water has establish an apprenticeship. 56 water associations including in north cologne north dakota, completed the programs and attract the training with over 600 apprentices enrolled or graduated. Thank you mr. Chairman and members of the community forgiven me the opportunity to share the perspective. We appreciate what you have provided. Thanks. Thanks to all of you for your testimony today. I will leadoff the questions. Is another hearing going on for postal issues that is important. I may have to slip out for a few minutes to go there. I mentioned in my Opening Statement, the bipartisan infrastructure law provided more than 55 billion for Drinking Water and wastewater improvements. The largest investment in the nations history. Its in addition to the American Rescue plan. We knew this was only a down payment, but to continue need is clear now. The epa released the most recent needs survey. The estimated that the 20 year Drinking Water need is a staggering 625 billion knee. My question is for each of you. I will start off please share with us, some of your beliefs with respect to the bipartisan infrastructure, your experience with the laws funding, what you have been able to achieve with the funding in North Carolina . Talk about the financial gap that remains in your efforts to address the challenges . You have spoken to this already, you can reiterate. Repetition is a good thing. Thank you for the question. One of the things we think about a lot, people do not tend to think about Water Infrastructure unless they turn on the faucet and water does not come out or they do not have clean water. If they are well water or cannot flush attila. That is when we think about Water Infrastructure. As a result, we have under invested for decades in our system. This piece of legislation has provided a huge shot in the arm for us. You mentioned the epa survey is identifying hundreds of millions of dollars in additional needs. That is true in North Carolina. We have the 2017 study that we are in the process of updating. It does not take into account hurricanes we have dealt with the estimated needs at 26 million just for the basic Water Infrastructure. Thats not including looking at the needs associated with upgrading our Drinking Water to deal with pfas to protect Public Health. That is quite significant. To give you another dollar figure, we were only able in 2023 to fund 9 of the 2. 6 billion that have been requested from our local utilities. The number held pretty steady for the past few years. But a record investment which is wonderful, 1. 9 billion from the rescue plan. The funding were getting from i aj. Were working hard to get the funding to reach every community that needs it in the state. As i mentioned earlier, thats not just rewarding those who are first in line, but to make sure we have strong technical systems. North carolina has a lot of small, rural communities. A lot of poor communities and we want to make sure it is reaching those communities. I will ask you to hold it there. You have our attention. Ms. Paul, the same question. Overall, our experience working with stakeholders to make sure that we got off to a good start with implementing the bipartisan infrastructure law, and has been positive. We understand there had to be god is provided for implementation and for the state of maryland, they took some time to update the definition of disadvantaged communities to make sure that the funding is going to support those communities across the state. We are starting to see funding from them and we are starting to see principal forgiveness. We talked about in the hearing before, we need to see more funding in the form of grants and not loans. Many communities cannot afford loans. For us, we are financially constrained, as well. It counts against the debt that we are taking out for our capitol program. Is still a funding gap there. We submitted a project, project requests worth 800. We are projected to receive 105 million. We are still shy of the need. I think it has been very good that we have been able to assist customers that need assistance getting their bills back in Good Standing from impacts from the pandemic, but those impacts were before and continue to persist. The last thing i will stress, we talk a lot about investment in infrastructure. We can forget about the people that run the facilities and fix the pipes. We also have to invest in workforce. Thank you for those words. Thank you. Our group has been working very hard to navigate through the rules and regulations to get the money out as best as i can. Visiting with them the last couple of weeks, getting a lot of the money out to all sorts of systems. I have a snapshot of the systems on the clean water side and the Drinking Water sides. Very small up to the largest communities. Thank you. Senator . Thank you. There is a lot going on, im going to yield my first opportunity to question to senator i appreciate that. I have to run to a farm beer farm bill hearing. I wanted to ask one question quickly regarding i understand how critical it is that we protect farmers, ranchers, and others, not directly responsible for pfas contamination from being potentially held liable by the epa or subject to sweeping private legal action that could wreak havoc on their ability to operate. I was pleased to be part of the bill giving them assurance they will not be subject to pfas liability. Can you talk about the importance of providing farmers and ranchers and Water Utilities with a certainty . Thank you. Something we think about a lot, pfas operates different than most of the traditional contaminants we regulate. Pfas is called a forever chemical for a reason. It accumulates. At a state level we review the rules and regulations and permitting to make sure that we have measures to make sure we are so protective of Public Health and environment in that context. As you point out, its a worthy conversation to have to make sure that we are looking where to appropriately draw the lines to ensure you are not having unattended consequences. P fast is operating differently. If they did go all the way down to them, what effect would that have on North Carolina . As a strong agricultural state, i think about the farmers and the public Water Systems. Ratepayers are already paying for treatment costs to make sure the water meets federal water drinking standards. I would hate to see a scenario where we have public Water Systems on the hook twice. Thank you. Thank you. Ms. Powell, let me relate a story from a couple years ago. I was invited by a candidate for city council in baltimore, to join him to go doortodoor to try to get Political Support for him. Was an opportunity to do some grassroots politics. Every house that we knocked on the door of, were somebody answered, the question they raised were water prices. The affordability of water. You mentioned that in your testimony and obviously there is a tremendous shortage in the modernization of the Water Infrastructure. The pressure on the ratepayers make it virtually impossible to make the type of investment through the ratepayers that are necessary to make the improvements. Were stuck with the rates being too high for affordability. We have the program for other utilities. You mentioned in your testimony, use covert relief funds provided in the bipartisan structure itself sponsored with the senator, to low a program on affordability for those that cannot afford it. Could you go into a little more detail to the need of affordability, as to the customers in your region struggling to pay the current water bills, let alone if additional responsibilities are imposed upon them because of the challenges that you mentioned . Yes, sir. Thank you for the question. Thank you for your leadership on this issue. Since the start of the pandemic , we have applied over 10 million to 6500 customers through a variety of state funding sources. Including 3. 7 million just from alone. It has helped over 4000 customers. The federal low income Household Water Assistance Program has been another opportunity for us to assist customers that have had these needs. Those needs existed before the pandemic because rates have been increasing and they will continue to persist after. Right now we have over 90,000 customers that are behind on their water bills. Leaving more than 51 million in arrears. When we cant get the funding from our customers because we are not for profit, we then look to raise rates and that is an unsustainable solution. Having a permanent low income Household Water Assistance Program provides another way of providing the needed funding to help customers with the rise in cost of water and sewer bills. Our costs are increasing to deal with just maintaining the infrastructure we have. New regulations that require us to invest billions of dollars will further add to the financial burden. Secretary, you mentioned the ratepayers of North Carolina. You have a similar concern about the affordability . That is something we think about a lot. We want to make sure water is affordable. The customers are paying an extra 70 per month, i am sorry, per year, to pay for that treatment system. We are thinking about this all the time and looking that everybody is at the table to help so that the ratepayers do not shoulder the entire burden. I mention my thanks to join the force in regards to the baltimore system. This is a model governance that is worked extremely well among the suburb counties. Citys management which has been earl goes back 100 years. We have Serious Problems and i hope you can add expertise to have a structure to provide the needs for the customers that depend on the baltimore water authority. Yes, sir. I am looking forward to lending my expertise and the entire task force to ensure that the city of baltimore has the infrastructure for the water and waste water which is a regional utility. I started my Public Sector career as the head of bureau and i know the operation well and i know the challenges and those have become difficult over time and i do see that the city of baltimore is now starting to receive funding from igaa and i hope the work we do hopes to inform how those funds should be spent going this is for all td im going to start with you, mr. Volk. Im going to go back to the p foss issue. Circle liability creates a significant issue for passive receivers. You did not create it but it comes into your system. Often you are required to treat pfas due to regulations. Water is vulnerable due to the role of receiving and filtering pfas. I believe North Carolina, 43 systems installed, current systems. Treatment technologies to remove it and it gets in granulated carbon filters but it has to be transported and disposed of as you put new filters in. WasteWater Utilities must contend with industrial and residential contributors of pfas upstream. My questions are can you elaborate on the risks and costs associated with transporting and disposing of pfas contaminated materials and a circle liability impact to your ability to manage these byproducts effectively without fear of severe legal challenges . If the epa is requiring you to provide pfas free wastewater and drinking, are you caught between a rock and a hard place . Mr. Volk greatmr. Volk questions. A lot of these are on the minds not only the small overall systems of north dakota but across the nation. There are a lot of unknowns especially in our state with what the extent of the pfas is and if you find it, what you do with it and if youre told you need to dispose of it, where do i dispose of it . How much is it going to cost . Who is going to pay for it . If it is the ratepayer like we have talked, we are already strapped razor thin budgets. That is where being exempt from the liability would be an extreme help to Water Systems. The passive receiver. They did not profit from the pfas but now they are responsible for that exactly. Have you tested your Water Systems in North Carolina . Mr. Volk they have done a couple years of testing. We have been lucky it has come back with very few positives across the state. Would you respond to that . I would like to reinforce it please. Ms. Powell yes. I mentioned it in my statement we have been we initiated looking at alternatives to deal with pfas in Drinking Water. While we have done voluntary testing and it shows our levels are low and we would be under the mcl that has been proposed by epa, we have seen an anomaly in the data that shows a spike that could mean we are out of compliance in the future. That is why i mentioned financial compliance and operational risks associated with not only Drinking Water but also wastewater. We have to understand what will happen they are and bio solids. On the Drinking Water side, our estimates are upwards of a billion dollars to be able to address pfas in Drinking Water and just in terms of biosolids, the piscataway bioenergy facility project where we have received funding from the state, that project is upwards of 270 million dollars, the single largest investment we have made as a utility. It is supposed to be a positive one to take our i o solids to a class a to better manage biosolids. That investment stands to be threatened should we have to address pfas and biosolids. It is important utilities have the protection from liability. You have some experience with this with some of your systems already doing the carbon filters. What kind of liability issues are they having or would they have if we did not specifically exempt them from transporting and trying to managing once you catch it. It does not go away. What are you going to do with it . Ms. Biser thank you for that question. The two large systems we have dealing with this. One is the osmosis system. The other is the carbon filtration system. With the carbon system one of the things we worry about is there is air transport of pfas. As it gets refreshed it gets heated up. There is a lot we still need to learn about are we putting it back into the air where it continues the cycle . That points to a need for research and development as we are tackling these issues. It is a worthy conversation to have. Having everyone around the table to say what are the unintended consequences in how can we avoid consequences so we dont burden our ratepayers . Senator markley. Sen. Merkley . Welcome to you all. I want to direct my attention to you, mr. Volk. I have two pollution problems i want to address. One is in Marshall County. For decades people have had an exhilarating level of nitrates in their water where it is way above safety and they are expanding all kinds of health problems. They are adjacent to an area that does have a Public Water System. The 35 billion we have directed, wouldnt that be appropriate money to be spent to connect these folks to a Public Water System free of nitrates . Isnt that kind of the purpose . Mr. Volk yes, senator. I believe those would be questions to ask your department. That is just extra additional funding. There are additional subsidies that can be used. Definitely could be something to get those users on a reliable source of water. Sen. Merkley is in that kind of the core purpose of the money to help folks in will areas address this kind of challenge . Mr. Volk definitely. It would be up to each state to divvy that money up however they see fit. Sen. Merkley . Want to turn to another challenge in cook county. In cook county, we have had in 2022 a whole bunch of residents who have a high level of manganese has appeared in their water. Canada has a limit of 120 micrograms. The world health organization, 80 aiko grams. Epa is it the hundred micrograms. Is at 300 micrograms. The estimate for the impact of memory attention and motor skills is 120 to 400 micrograms. 10 of the 13 year by family wells have tested over the epa 300 level and one tested at over a thousand micrograms. People are incredibly worried about their health. The calves are dying at billy johnsons dairy. A Record Number of cals did pick number of cows dead. A farmer said it just chapped my backside goliath could get away with running over everybody else. The goliath is a gravel pit that opened nearby. In this case there is no Public Water System nearby to taft in. What can these funds do to help our Rural Farmers and families impacted in such a fashion . Mr. Volk i can only tell you what we have done in north dakota over the last 50 years. We have a Great Network of rural regional systems that would provide water to that farmer. We have worked hard on it. I know manganese is an issue in north dakota. We have been able to use the funding through the emerging contaminants section. That is eligible use. That is 100 subsidies so if they were able to hook up to a regional supplier like we have done in north dakota that would be an option for the rural residents and farmers. Sen. Merkley youre talking about piped water. Correct. Sen. Merkley of people are too far away to make that feasible, are there other things these funds can do . Mr. Volk we would have to get back to you on that. Sen. Merkley madam chair, i want to provide for the record several articles about both the nitrates in Marshall County and the challenge faced and the manganese in cook county. These two instances are examples of the sorts of challenges that people face. And it is not just the farmers and ranchers. The families Water Systems, their pipes, their filters, water heaters, toilets are filling up with lack sludge. With the black sludge. They cannot sell their homes. They are afraid to raise their children but they cannot afford to move. It seems to me these are exactly the sort of things we are trying to provide funds for to assist and i want us to find a way to help these communities. Without objection. Senator cramer. Sen. Cramer thank you, madam chair. Thank you to all of her witnesses for being here. You for your expertise. Im going to get to one of the process issues. Actually in some respects senator markleys questions are about the program in general and how states can use the various stacks in appropriate ways. One of the areas and we have talked about with the state Revolving Loan fund. But one of the areas regarding the bigger system is the area for rural people like me. This applies not just to water but to the highway piece of it as well that is to have a formula that consistently recognizes rural states and then unique needs. We dont have a formula that sends all the money to Large Population centers. We are talking about a multiple you system that connects and i appreciate your illustration to jeff with regard to the regional systems in north dakota that Work Together. Could you speak to the importance of the formula piece of this because the formula is often challenged when it is time to reevaluate and reauthorize the program. Maybe speak to that and you said something in your Opening Statement i would like you to speak more to. That is the Technical Assistance piece. In all my years in Congress Whenever this came up the thing i hear the most is the value of Technical Assistance. If you know how to apply for a grant it helps perhaps get the grant. Maybe speak to those two things. Mr. Volk thank you, senator cramer. Definitely on the formula and coming from a small state, we would love any changes or anything that would not harm small states with limited population just because we dont have the residence does not mean we dont have problems. We have unique problems whether it is miles of pipe between rural customers, extremely short construction season. Im looking forward to getting back to our Cool Temperatures in north dakota. It has been extremely here extreme and here in d. C. Normally as a small state we are minimally funded and we are ok with that as long as we are not adversely affected by any formula change based on a population alone. With the Technical Assistance, that is the heart of our association. We have been around since 1974 helping when they were first starting rule systems in the state and morphed into training, technical and financial assistance. All of the Waste Systems in the state. My staff is going in a in and day out helping with finding leaks, fixing things, helping them fill out loan applications. Having them connect to the funding sources. Helping them higher in engineer. Some of the small systems have parttime staff volunteers. The assistance is to us the boots on the ground. They know us. We live in their communities. We live in the state. We are not there one day and never to be seen again. We are there for the long haul. Sen. Cramer i might follow that up with the next point. The Technical Assistance helps 11 professionals with over 300 systems. What you have just described is the way you maximize those resources. That does not change the fact there is a significant workforce challenge. There is in every industry. Space force is doing well i guess. Beyond that there is a workforce problem in our country. I think it was your testimony where you said you expect 50 of the workforce in your industry will be leaving within 10 years. Each of you can answer shortly. What is the plan . How do we deal with this or do we recruit more humans . Mr. Volk part of the problem we are trying to address with our Apprenticeship Program. We have the standard set up and like i said there are 36 states and north dakota is one of them. We are relatively new in the process of apprenticeship. We have a Workforce Development coordinator. To help navigate through the rules and regulations of the Apprenticeship Program. Trying to change the narrative in our business where in smalltown north dakota it is usually if your operator leaves, who is the next person up . You bring someone in and they dont have the experience and it is a vicious cycle. We are trying to change the cycle change the culture. It is a great noble profession. They do great work everyday so we are working hard to use the Apprenticeship Program to get the next generation of workers. Sen. Cramer thank you. Sen. Markey senator padilla and then senator ricketts. The law provides 49 for additional subsidize asian. Is that customarily treated as a cap . Mr. Volk the 49 is the i believe and i know we have had some discussions with is that enough. Assuming it is a cap, what effect does it have on communities that dont have the ability to afford the match in a terms of being able to access the iija funds . Mr. Volk i a great question. We are struggling with that i and with dakota. 49 subsidy would go on to the customer and most of that lead is going to be in your older neighborhoods, your disadvantaged communities so we are going to we are struggling with getting that and finding a balance with the affordability. Sen. Whitehouse ms. Powell, in rhode island we were seeing a lot of damage to our Water Treatment infrastructure related to Climate Change. We had very powerful unprecedented rain events that have flooded out. For instance a major city of ours, cranston, a Sewage Treatment facility and it is unpleasant to be downstream when a Sewage Treatment facility floods out. Narragansett has had to build a daikon, a a dyke, a berm. Another town is having to plan expensive move with immediate protection of its Water Treatment facility. How well does the iija fund of the needs communities are facing to deal with these unprecedented flooding events driven by Climate Change in our relentless pollution of the fossil fuel industry. Ms. Powell thank you for the question. We are dealing with the impacts of drought conditions. We had a meeting to talk about moving to a drought watch. It really is impacting every community. East coast, west coast, northsouth. I think the structure is there in iija. The authorization is there. The appropriation needs to be there. Sen. Whitehouse me also ask you about micro plastics. We are starting to see that turnout more and more in Drinking Water. We see it appear in mothers breast milk. We see it appear in the end result of the babys diaper that has gone through. We see it falling in the rain in colorado. We dont understand what the dangers are of micro plastics when consumed by humans. The bill provides 10 million of emerging contaminants. Is it true micro plastics are one of only 10 emerging contaminants . Given the upgrades necessary to deal with micro plastics, is 10 billion a sufficient number . Ms. Powell the short answer is it is not sufficient. We focused a lot on pfas. Sen. Whitehouse which would be an emerging contaminant . Ms. Powell which would be an emerging contaminant. Our projections to deal with that are upwards of a billion dollars. Sen. Whitehouse you mean your projections. Ms. Powell yes sir. We need to have regulatory certainty. We need to have a comprehensive roadmap to deal with emerging contaminants on the horizon holistically so that we are making investments in infrastructure upgrades makes sense. Sen. Whitehouse i would wrap up by suggesting some flexibility around the 49 for communities that dont have a lot of resources and additional funding for infrastructure that faces climate related damage, flooding, drought drying out conditions whatever they are. And an expansion of the 10 billion which has to cover both pfas and micro plastics in addition to whatever other emerging contaminants are out there would be helpful to you. Ms. Powell yes, sir. Sen. Whitehouse is that a yes also . And ms. Biser is also nodding. Sen. Markey head nods are important. I think our next senator molen. Sen. Mullin . We all face unique challenges being from the midwest and will states like oklahoma and north dakota. Even major metropolitan areas such as boston and new york, san francisco, l. A. We all have issues facing us when it comes to clean water. Sometimes policy related. Sometimes neglect. Sometimes a lack of funding. What we do know is one size does not fit all. We need to give municipalities, states flexibility to allow them to make decisions for their unique areas. A lot of times in congress we may have good intentions. Sometimes it is politically driven. Sometimes it is policy driven anything that is what we are trying to do here is have good sound policy. But one size never fits all. When we throw at you but is not a money 55 billion is a lot of money for anybody. And we put restrictions on it. I think we hear from all of our witnesses we know where it needs to dope. Where it needs to go. We need the flexibility to do so and if we are going to be funding these projects, we need to make sure we get those dollars as close to the state, as close to the individual providing us services as possible and give us the tools to do it without having the restrictions which happen so often with federal funding. Every dollar has so many strings on it they cannot even access at. That is what i believe mr. Vol, you were saying. Just to get through the bureaucracy to get the funding is a miracle sometimes in itself. My question to you is what tools do you need for rule parts of the country which is mostly midwest. If the money is there, what tools do you need to access it . Mr. Volk senator, great question. Things we talk about all the time. The flexibility would be immensely grateful. With our state folks, they would love that. The technical sen. Mullin flexibility in white. Dont use the dollars for certain projects without having restrictions . Flexibility on navigating the bureaucracy . Mr. Volk especially with this funding, with the lead component on our waterside, we run the risk in our state of not spending down our First Tranche of money and we could not apply for the next money until we spent that down. We run the risk if we dont apply for that before september 2024 we could lose that money and that would be reallocated. So some timing flexibility for our state to navigate the lead like the lead Service Line Inventories are not due to the state until october 16, 2024 they have to apply for the new funding, the next years funding of the lead in september 2024 so the funding is ahead at this point of the true problem. The state does not fully know the magnitude of the total led replacement. We have an idea but some of the flexibility would be great so they would not run the risk of losing that. Maybe a little more time. Could use it at another point. Sen. Mullin would it be helpful instead of each ms. Appellate he or each district trying to apply for the grant themselves where the footing themselves, would it be helpful if we were to if congress through the epa were to give the money to the states that have like in Oklahoma Department of environmental quality. In north dakota im sure you have an Environmental Agency that could help manage it too. Get it to them and allow them to help disperse dollars in areas and set the timing you need that is more designed to actually be practical for you guys to achieve what you are trying to get done. Mr. Volk normally that is how it would work with their base funding through the program. They have intended use plan they would go off and it is on a ranking system. If there are Health Issues or things like that. They have that flexibility. It is some of the tightness. Sen. Mullin so the timing is the thing you need the most help with. I yield back. Sen. Markey senator padilla. Sen. Padilla let me begin by reminding you how proud i am of the work Risk Committee has done to address water affordability for underserved communities while also working to expand access to water reuse and recycling and reduce lead and Drinking Water. It serves as a foundation for the bipartisan Infrastructure Investment in jobs act as i know you are proud of. This last june i chaired a subcommittee hearing examining the challenges facing Water Systems across the country and the impacts of aging Water Infrastructure as we have been talking about in this hearing already. The effect that aging infrastructure has on the ability of families to pay their water bills. The cost of water is rising. Household water and wastewater bills have increased 160 since 1998. Just to put it in context, that is a greater rate of growth than the rise in cost for electricity, rent or even medical bills. In 2021 congress created the temporary low income Household Water Assistance Program in response to the covid19 pandemic. We also authorized a new epa Pilot Program to help Water Systems address low income water affordability. The authorization for the Program Expires at the end of the month. I know senator cardin talked to you earlier about your experience in taking advantage of the Resources Available and what it meant for customers able to receive aid but can you emphasize for me and the committee when the Program Expires you might be able to ensure low Income Customers will continue to afford their water and sewer bills . Ms. Powell thank you, senator padilla, for the question. We are also looking to develop new customer Assistance Programs and enhance the customer Assistance Program we already have but we found having it in place we were able to assist more than 4000 customers with the cost of their water and sewer bills. That helped them get their accounts back in Good Standing. It also help to the utility to be able to move forward with are a Critical Mission of investing in infrastructure and our people. One of the things we are planning to do and we have been working with water and wasteWater Utilities across the country is to advocate for a Permanent Program. Need the authorization and we need the appropriation. Sen. Padilla you anticipated my followup question. I know it has been a temporary program but sounds like you believe a Permanent Program should be part of the federal safety net. Ms. Powell absolutely because there are some states and communities that do not have the enabling legislation for individual utilities to have their own customer Assistance Program. Having a federal low income Household Water Assistance Program akin to the program that helps with energy is appropriate for this resource. Sen. Padilla i will not raise the subject of pfas but i do want to associate myself with the comments, questions and concerns raised earlier. I will ask instead about another issue which is not unique to california but california seems to be exhibit a. Need to emphasize disaster resiliency. You have seen no shortage of challenges and opportunities ensuring access to clean Drinking Water and safe wastewater especially when it comes to natural disasters. Just last week, communities in and around san diego faced a boil water advisory av after th fir. Tropical depression by the time it made landfall. This comes after a winter where we saw more than 30 Atmospheric River storms flooding communities throughout the state. Stress Water Supplies and even here in the d. C. Region. Another question for you, how has the d. C. Drought impacted you . We had normal operations. We did have a call earlier this year to talk about how we will deal with the ambitions because we are making upgrades to our potomac. We have specific limitations. It is critical that we not only plan for the future but also for resiliency. We need to work and the region to advance the water supply. Thank you. Thank you for speaking about the role challenges facing these communities. In north dakota, we do a lot of winter storms and ice storms are very big. We need to make sure all of our Small Community can keep enough water so it is a concern that we have in our northern climate. Thank you very much, thank you, mr. Chair. I just want to say thank you for your leadership before you leave. I should mention, the subcommittee hearing this is my partner on the subcommittee. I know you try to do this at every opportunity. We are joined by until we are joined by senator sullivan, i want to ask a question of the secretary. We need to take a moment to discuss disparity quick thank you, senator. We recently did some studies on this very topic. We found it cost about 50 to 100 per pound. That is quoted disparity. Another question for all, cybersecurity attacks in the United States are of increasing concern. The community as they serve. By the American Water works association. Additional resources for utilities to both invest in the resiliency of these systems as well is to respond to attacks. Another great question. For an association, we strive to provide that technical and i we are very hooked up to the world. They can also be a curse when the bad actors find us. There are very small systems. People got on there, they dont know exactly what theyre looking at. Luckily we were able to stop that. We have some very intelligent experts working handtohand. The same question. Our cyber info structure is just as important. We have systems that are connected that have to be protected. There are bad actors that are trying to edit our water system, every water system every time. I think this is increasingly becoming a prime target for bad actors. The long and short of it is they need to be there to support those efforts it is certainly a new challenge. It is a clear and present danger to systems. Are you doing senator . Grade. Ready to go as always. And others is an important question. I have a bunch of questions on some of the topics. Is it safe to say that all three of you agree there should be some element of limitation on liability . Was that your testimony response . I think it is a good conversation have. We want to make sure we are not overburdening. I think it is important for utilities to have those protections and lets focus beyond the costs. All the sudden i am seeing they might say a lot of these entities will go bankrupt. What about you . The small systems would totally agree they should not be held responsible. This is really for everybody. This administration talks a lot about Environmental Justice and environmental equity. I thought in your bio. I have no issue with that. I said in this committee a one million times. If you are in alaska native or an indigenous person from alaska, you dont you get attacked by this administration. We had another legal outrage that the administration canceled leases. You had to do it. It was decided by congress over 70 years ago. I want to submit the joint alaska delegation on this for the record. The vast majority of the people on this press release are alaska natives. They are screaming what are you doing . Are you taking away our jobs . I have every day with this administration. Why did they get so outraged . I want to show you this. That is the American Medical Association chart. That is from 19802014. America Life Expectancy increases. Also, Life Expectancy decreases. The place in our country that increased 11 expectancy the most by far, alaska. Up 13 years. Our rural communitys and indigenous communities. Life expected super native alaskans was the lowest in the country by far. These from 1980 and on, we have jobs, clinics. This is about water and sewer. This is in a lot of these places. Up to 13 years. What is more important . Is the people you are represented represent are living longer . I dont know. This administration took a whack at that, trying to make my constituents live less long. Deb haaland is the native american. A lot of the revenues that come from this kind of resource . Water and sewer. My state has over 30 communities that dont have any running water. It is all indigenous people. Do you think that is Environmental Justice . These are the most patriotic americans in the country. My question for the panel is in terms of formulas, the epa administrator was in alaska. Just over august, we did a meeting with alaska natives. I have shown that chart many times. In terms of formula for the modern sewer, dr. Think it should prioritize just for fairness, racial justice, Racial Equity . The communitys that dont have anything there was a lot of talk about aging infrastructure. I think a lot of times we miss no infrastructure. Shouldnt we be prioritizing communities in america that dont have anything . This is not right in my view. Maybe you can start. Thank you for the question. And the awareness. I was a from a personal standpoint and ive said many times, i believe equity is about communities having what they need so that all communitys can thrive having been in the water sector for some time, i am not here to speak on behalf of the water sector. I can tell you i dont know anyone that believes we should trade the needs of the unserved or underserved. I think every Community Needs to have this. I think this historic investment in water and infrastructure or being able to provide wasteWater Infrastructure needs to be fully funded, sustainable and long so every community can thrive on equal footing. Thank you. Anyone else . We share your concern to make sure we are getting the funding where it is made the most. We have a lot of communities bypassing this. We are getting our funding canvassed. We are trying to find out which committees did not have service or reliable service. So far we have connected over 2000 homes for the first time and we are still working on that. This requires as changing our process. Extra points on the criteria to make sure we are meeting the needs of our residents. In north dakota, we worked hard with the various state partners, federal partners to meet the gap of those underserved not only we have tribal nations to meet those needs but there are other places in the state where it is limited water, limited sewage in this day and age. It is crazy. This should go close to the top. Glad you could join us. I will have a question or two. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you for being here today. Very interesting to see the big states, small states, will have some similarities and different concerns. My last question is around risky communications. We have an incident in ohio where there was a train derailment. And there was of great concern expressed by me and many others, the impacts and the chemicals being carried. We had a hearing on. One of the things that came out of that came out of this hearing was the miscommunication, not just the epa but you will deal with epa. In this case, it was not as good as it could be. The committee was at risk because of an accident. Im sure people helped with this. Ive had this in my own community, to have appropriate Risk Communications is absolutely essential. Dont Say Something and then expand on a 24 hours later, react immediately, science, all these things. What expanse do you have in this . What Risk Communications put additional burdens on your state . You had your state entities reacting, your governor reacting. I am interested in the federal level of communication. Thank you. We spent a lot of time thinking about this. Only have one area that we deal with a lot, that is with pfs. As residents get testing, they find out they have high levels of pfs. Want to make sure you are providing actionable science. , giving them what their options are and making sure they are not complicit. We try to spend a lot of time in advance. Sometimes you dont have as much time to pointed out for east palestine. We answer because every day from residents concerned about these issues. We work with our fellow states and local partners to make sure we have a whole of government approach to ensure an answer. We want to make sure there is consistency within agencies. You have different types of reports. The epa has not set the drinking level. Probably three years to do this. This is at a level that is untestable. They come back with a drinking level higher than level to put out last year. They had a risk to it. They infused messages who find it in their water system. So i appreciate what you all do every day. All kinds of contaminants and other things that happen. The general public relies on you to make sure the information theyre getting is not just accurate but you are relying on other people for information. I think that is an area we really need to stay on and be as vigilant as possible. Thank you all very much for being here. Thank you. I have one last question and then we will wrap it up. This is for you. Bipartisan infrastructure includes some 15 billion in funding. Many districts across our country have been busy this year, creating inventories. It is as is what kinds of problems exist in their respective areas. They did not know if they could assess the funding to replace lead service lines. You work to address this challenge. As i shared in my testimony, i am happy part of our progress is receiving projected funding for our inventory and replacement work. We are developing a comprehensive program so that when we have the data, we will be able to help those that had led service lines. There will need to be policies that encourage the lead service lines. There needs to be the funding in place to help customers with cost as well. We are projected to receive funding. We will look forward to applying for more as we know more. I will give each of you maybe 30 seconds. We will get ready for that start voting. Thank you for letting me speak here. They do a great job day in and day out. We talk shoestring budgets and limited staff. Sometimes in the water business when you make the news, it is not for new things. They do nothing to save the day for the residents. That is what i want and with. Recognizing the people in the trenches. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me here again. I would focus on workforces as well. We can talk about other funding we need for infrastructure. We will be putting money into that and maintaining those investments. Thank you for your focus on workforce as well. I just want to say thank you to team h2o. I mentioned this earlier. It was unusual for us to be out for a month. I always ask three questions. How are you doing, how are we doing . What can we do to help . People say what we need is people will come to work who will come to work. We have the lowest Unemployment Rate we have in years. I think we have had almost eight or 9 million jobs open. People are allegedly looking for work. This is at the state level, local level, federal level. Workforce with the skills that are needed in all kinds of jobs. Thank you for your leadership. I want to continue the theme. The grants that are getting out or coming back to us in the form of permits. We have a 24 vacancy rate for engineers. This is a major focus across the country. Categorical grants. While i know this is a policy committee, there is index to spare. As we are seeing stagnant rates of funding, our possibilities are growing. We are going to make sure we have these resources to recruit and maintain hug highly qualified staff. We have been joint for stretches as long as we could. Go ahead. Thank you. Thank you for waiting. Thank you, all of you for being here today. It is important hearing. Secretary bud, i want you to talk about the fast contamination and Drinking Water. As a member of the 11 democrats that were to negotiate the law, one of the Top Priorities here was dedicated funding for Drinking Water systems to respond to pfs contamination. Pfas contamination. In the state of arizona, the funding has already been put to work. Drinking Water Systems specifically in the southern part of the state, install systems to remediate its plume that we see in the groundwater aquifer where i live and my wife lives. It is under tucson. The epa has developed new Drinking Water standards for pfas. It would be four parts per trillion. Instead of the current guidance which is 70. While the epa has not finalized standards, if proposed levels were finalized, how would they react to our Drinking Water systems . How many additional systems are there in the state of arizona as an example . Thank you for your leadership. I can speak to North Carolinas experience with that. We have 43 municipal county systems that are far four parts per trillion. I will say that broadly speaking, i got a head start because we had an industrial facility. That forced us to be a leader in this area. Weve had a number of years to do assessment. I think nationwide, states he funding to get a handle on where this is. The most costeffective way to treat it is to keep it from happening in the first place. We need funding to see where it is coming from. Stop putting into the environment. Look at how we can better control that. We need to get a handle on where we are finding it. We need to test large Water Systems but also small. There are over 650 of our small Water Systems. Other sensitive population centers. Having the funding and ability to do that, principally is what well get our arms around it overall and we will make sen. Kee how you would need to remove the system and would you think the cost would be . Ms. Biser there were not a lot of systems currently put in place. We have two systems that were larger because of higher levels of pfas contamination, they had put in place two systems that we are looking to right now. Based scion their experience in the cost, we are estimating up to 1. 3 billion dollars for those three large Water Systems to come into compliance. That does not include the small Water Systems that are going to need to put filtration in place. We do not have a number there yet because results of those tests, we do not have a complete picture. Sen. Kelly are there any future methods to remove pfas, anything that is being developed during any innovation that could get us to four parts per trillion at a potentially lower cost . Ms. Biser i know there is a lot of research on going. They are looking at potential opportunities but there are none that are scalable that i am aware of that are commercially and available in a widespread fashion. But i am encouraged we have a lot of r d going. I think we need more, not only on Treatment Systems, but also how to assess so that we have the ability to destroy the pfas. Thank you for making the extra effort. I want to really close with where we began and that is to thank you not just for showing up today and not just for your thoughtful responses to the questions and the issues that we have raise. The members of this committee are very proud of the work we have done on infrastructure for our country. It is not something we do just that the federal level. It is very much a team effort. It does not get any more important than water knowing that when we true on the spigots what we drink will be safe. We used to have good attendance at our hearings, but this has been exceptional and i think it is reflective of how important we regard these issues. We need to continue to make progress. You have given us good input as to how we might be guided missiles as opposed to unguided missiles. Bipartisan infrastructure at made historic investments in drinking Water Infrastructure across our nation. Theres still a lot of work to do. As robert frost would say, miles to go before we sleep. Still plenty of work to do. We have every intention of remaining active. We have to do our job as oversight. It is an important part of our job. We want to stay active with our state and local partners to ensure safe Drinking Water remains available to everyone in this country. Before we adjourn, a couple of final items. We have some wonderful members of this committee. We are blessed with great staff. These hearings do not just occur. The staff collaborate and Work Together and give us a panel all thoughtful witnesses. Todays no exception. This is my favorite part of the hearing. I get to ask unanimous consent to enter in the wrecker materials related to todays hearing and and i had the senators be allowed to submit questions for the record. When i asked unanimous consent and there is nobody here to object, i know i get my way. Hearing no objection, we will comply with those questions and send them to all of you. We ask that you reply to us by thursday, october 5. Anything else . With that, one less thing to our friend from north dakota. Tell your friends out there to take it easy on the blue hands. It is not a fair fight. Adjourned