Come der. The committee will come to order. The gentleman from maryland is recognized for five minutes. Good afternoon, general. Are you . Very good. I want to point out three things that you said so far today. I want to emphasize these for the Committee Going forward. You said we will not back down, we will not be intimidated. The other thing you said too was you will not interfere with the investigation by not investigating the investigation. I thought that was particularly here because this committee has been doing exactly the opposite. We have been under the chairmans leadership investigating prosecutors all over the country in the middle of criminal investigations and sometimes postindictment, sometimes preindictment in an effort to derail the prosecutions in those cases. I will start with the one, the alvin bragg effort. The chairman and two other Committee Chairs sent out a letter, two actually, to da bragg at the time that he was still investigating former President Trump for potential prosecution. Then, after he was indicted, they raised the issue again. The concern i had on that front was multiple. One was one of the letters that the Committee Chair sent was demanding information that potentially would have violated state law in new york similar cthat a lot of americans are afraid of being prosecuted by your department . Are you aware about that . Are you aware of that . Are you aware or not . I think that constant attacks on the department it is not the tax. We talked about january 6. Some people came on january 6. Some people came on january 6 here that had that intent but a lot of Good Americans from my district came here because they are sick and tired of this government not serving them. They came with strollers and the kids and there was a chaotic situation because the proper security that was provided. Why did they not stop the debate after people broke into the capital . They were throwing the smoke bombs into the crowd. There were fbi agents showing up to peoples houses. You have in my district, in my town, fbi phone numbers all over the district, please call. People are truly afraid. I just want to make sure if you are not aware, that you are. This is a big problem that people are afraid of their own government. I will say some other things. We are talking about the justice system. I dont know you but i want to tell you that you are in charge of the department and people right now feel i look at the calls with millions and millions of americans. It is like kgb but you have a nice playbook. First, lets have a special counsel and then you dont have to answer any questions here. Then, lets do a small investigation on hillary clinton, on hunter. We will move very quick on donald trump but you were very slow. Then, by the time the investigation and the statute of limitations expired and all of your agencies no one recalls anything. You could have it as part of your hiring policy. It was egregious what happened in that report. I cant believe it happened in the United States of america. This is my frustration. I will be honest with you. It is very interesting. People in the Obama Administration are concerned. How can the president s son be serving on corrupt do you understand that if they can undermine the war in ukraine, i think this concerns that they did not do anything about it. People are dying right now and americans dont trust this president. I am going to ask you one thing. I dont need answers because i know you are not going to but i think you are a Good American and you care and a lot of these people are so afraid to cover up this stuff in your department because they are embarrassed of what we became as a country to say that is what our department of justice became. That allows new propaganda and technique. It allies them to destabilize our country. That is a danger to our republic. It is a significant danger. Have one more question for you. I agree on corporate crimes and even the democrats that we need to do a better job. One more question for you. Do you believe that you have talked about rights to vote but do you believe that only u. S. Citizens should be voting in this election and doing anything to make sure that only eligible people vote in the selection . Yes and yes. I would like to see what you do. Thank you. The gentle lady from vermont is recognized. Thank you so much for being here today. I know it has been a long day for you. I am relatively new to the committee and i am getting my feet under me but as far as i can tell, what we are doing here today is talking about a lot of conspiracy theories and it is frustrating and tedious for those of us in the mehdi but i can tell you, it is absolutely maddening for my constituents back home in vermont. We have so much important work to do to keep the government open. We are days away from a shutdown. I just want to remind folks that we are in this situation because my colleagues across the aisle are reneging on a deal that a majority of their conference made along with their speaker. That is why we are in this situation. If they are successful in shutting down the government, seniors who rely on Social Security benefits will be impacted. Thousands of medicare recipients and applicants will be impacted. Servicemembers will stop receiving paychecks. Veteran services will be curtailed. Those are the grim consequences from republicans inability and unwillingness to govern. I need to start with that. Lets do some level setting here. Lets get to the real work of the doj and how congress can help the agencies better serve its mission. Gun violence continues to plague our nation. We see the wreckage every day on our television sets, on our computers and in our communities. As a member of the Gun Violence Prevention Task force, this issue is incredible important to me. I believe there is actual room for bipartisan congressional action on gun violence at least in some areas. One of those areas, red flag laws. It is a great place to start. Vermont is one of 21 states that was able to pass red flag laws. These laws are working to keep guns out of the hands of people that are in crisis and many states did not apply for funding from the bipartisan act to better implement red flag laws and to raise awareness about the program. In june 2021, doj published model legislation to help states craft their own extreme protection order. Republicans continue to make unfounded accusations that these laws violate civil rights by taking guns away from americans without any due process. Can you explain the due process protections that are put in place in the model legislation the doj proposed . I would start by saying of course there is room for bipartisan agreement and the communities act is a very good example. That includes the ability to have funding for states that want to craft and put into place red flag laws. The requirement is that the red flag law include a due process protection. I dont know every element of the model of legislation but the general idea is that relatives or friends of the person have to go to a court and get some kind of adjudication that the person is a danger to themselves or to others. Normally relates to Mental Illness problems but it may relate to others. If a gun is taken away under those circumstances, there is then the right to appeal, to have a full hearing in order to adjudicate the question. I cant say i know every technicality but i think that is about it. It is especially important that states like mine, rural states that have real issues with the silent killers, Domestic Violence and suicide. These are instances in which red flag laws can make a difference. Shifting gears here, i, along with senator warren and 20 of our colleagues recently submitted a colleague letter applauding the guidelines and urging agencies to finalize them. Corporate concentration remained an a pressing problem for the us economy and i fear we are falling behind in this area and American Consumers continue to feel the pain because of this. With the introduction of the draft merger guidelines, how does the Department Plan to ensure that future mergers and acquisitions do not stifle competition or harm consumers . That is often the pushback that we get. Obviously, the intention of the merger guidelines is to set force the enforcement policy of the department, different generations of the guidelines which go all the way back to the time when i was in law school. They have been adopted and or helpful to generations of judges. I have sat on two or three merger cases myself where we learn some of the learning from the merger guidelines and the current guidelines reflect an adjustment to the current technology, network effects. That did not exist at the time when the last set of merger guidelines were passed. Last year, you spoke on the subject and said of dojs enforcement against crime has waxed and waned but it is waxing again. That is news to my ears. Thank you for your service. The lady yields back. The gentleman from texas is recognized. What is a confidential human source . It is an fbi term. I dont know all of the technicalities. Let me define it for you. An individual who is believed to be providing useful and credible information to the fbi from any authorized information selection activity and who, with the fbi expects to obtain additional, useful and credible information in the future. All right . Whose identity, information, or relationship with the fbi warrants confidential handling . These guys are individuals. You pay them 42 million a year. Did you know that . You are paying these sources 42 million a year. Do you believe that is credible, they are valuable, the fbi is using these guys. Would you agree with that . Some are more credible than others. You are paying them a lot of money. Let me paint the picture for america. Hunter biden in 2014. Very, very corrupt Ukrainian Energy company. He has no experience in oil and gas. He admits that. I dont have any experience. I have with me a document called the sb 1023. Have you seen this . It is used by the fbi. It is a confidential human source reporting document dated june 2020. You are familiar with it. In this document, the fbis confidential human source says the corrupt company needed to keep hunter on the board so everything would be okay. According to the human source, they hired hunter biden to, quote, protect through all kinds of problems. Does that concern you . It should. I got limited time. Remember, your sources are credible, trustworthy, honest and valuable. The document that who is victor . You want me to answer that . I dont know. He is a prosecutor, folks. He is the prosecutor. He oversees all of the corruption in ukraine. We know there is corruption over there. For the American People watching, a few months after hunter biden joined the board, victor ashokan was named prosecutor general for ukraine to target corruption and one of his investigations was into burisma. In this document, the human source clarified that charismas ceo, the man in charge, said he has many Text Messages and recordings that show he was coerced to make such payments to ensure victor was fired. There were 17 of them. It is clear that joe biden wanted him fired so he would stop looking into burisma where hunter was on the board. Would you agree . Lets let the American People decide. Play the clip. Play the clip. Remember going over, convincing our partners to convince them that we should be providing for loan guarantees . I went over, the 12, 13 time and i was supposed to announce that there was another billion dollar loan guarantee. I had gotten a commitment pay attention, serve. They would take action against the prosecutor and they didnt. They said we are not going to give you the billion dollars. They said you have no authority. You are not the president. The president said i should call. I said i am telling you, you are not getting the billion dollars. I think it was six hours and i look at them and we were leaving in six hours. The prosecutor is not fired. You are not getting the money. He got fired. They put in place someone who was solid. What you just saw was joe biden in his arrogance and roll of the Vice President of this country saying if you dont fire shokin, the United States is not giving them the 1 billion loan. Why would joe biden say such a thing . Was it our policy at the time . Yes or no it wasnt. I have documents here, interagency policy is the gentleman never going to let i am on my time, pipe down. He has made significant reforms, shokin did. John kerry said he was impressive. Within a few months after shokin was fired, they employ a prosecutor that said we will not look into burisma anymore. Canceled it. Forget it. We are not looking into burisma anymore. Joe biden threatened the ukrainian president and the prime minister. Everyone can see it. Fire shokin or the United States would not give the billion dollars. That is not quid pro quo, what is . I will tell you what it is and america agrees with me. It is bribery and it is impeachable. Are you going to do something about it . I that you are not and that is why you also need to be impeached. I yield back. Gentlemens time has expired. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from texas. Attorney general, you were a line assistant for four years and a federal judge after that. You have significant experience with processes surrounding criminal investigations. What is the normal process for obtaining and executing a search warrant . You go to a federal judge. You present an affidavit which you believe constitutes probable cause. A federal judge looks at it, makes a determination of whether it does constitute probable cause. He then signs a search warrant and it has been executed. What is the purpose of a search warrant . The purpose of a search warrant is to find either to find evidence of a crime for which there has to be probable cause that it is in that location. When executing a search warrant on location that may contain evidence of a crime, what benefits are there doing so without notifying the defendant or the target of the investigation or his attorney ahead of time that execution of the search warrant is forthcoming . Sometimes you make notifications, sometimes you dont. If you think that the person who has the evidence of a crime is obstructing justice or is going to move the evidence or will secrete it if you want them in advance and you dont give it, if you dont have those concerns, you make of advanced notice. In the instance of not withholding withholding notice, you do so because they will move the evidence if you give them a heads up, correct . And hypothetical matter, yes. In most instances, in your experience, have you seen that more times than not that you give a heads up to the defendant . I cant make a statistical resolution. I think it is the case that the government tries to use less intrusive methods if they can. If they cant use more intrusive, emergent methods. Typically, when youre going to execute a search warrant, you would not actually give the heads up. Would you agree with that . Is a general matter, that is correct. Gary shapley, one of the whistleblowers, testified that he said optics were a driving factor in the decision not to request a search warrant for the guesthouse at the bidens delaware residents were hunter biden had stayed for a time. They further told investigators the, quote, there was more than enough probable cause for the physical search warrant but the question was whether the juice was worth the squeeze. She further said, quote, a lot of evidence would be found in the guesthouse of former Vice President biden but there is no way investigators will get that approved. Do you agree with ms. Wolf that optics of the investigation should be the driving factor in Law Enforcement decisions . I have to say as i said before, singling out persistent u. S. Attorneys is a dangerous matter. The supervisor of that case is mr. Weiss. He is the one who make the decisions in that case. He is the one who can answer questions as to whether those things happen. Lets just take the statement generally. Do you believe that optics of an investigation should be a driving factor in Law Enforcement decisions as to whether or not to execute a search warrant . The Justice Department has standards for its work and improper considerations are not part of those. The only questions are those driven by the facts of the law. They objected to a search warrant that investigators requested for extortion and contained all the documents from the vacated office of the law firm owned by hunter biden. Investigators scheduled a call with u. S. Attorney weiss who agreed that they could search the storage unit if it remained abandoned for 30 days but immediately after the call, investigators learned that they had reached out to Hunter Bidens defense counsel to tell them about the storage unit, effectively ruining the chance to access potentially critical evidence. In your experience, as you said earlier, this is not the typical thing that happens, correct . Once again, i dont know anything about these allegations, whether they are correct or not. These are questions most appropriately put to mr. Weiss at the appropriate time and to be covered in his report. Can you conceive of a reason why mr. Weiss or ms. Wolf would have given a heads up to Hunter Bidens legal team that the search of the storage unit was forthcoming . I am not going to get into hypotheticals. For somebody who was involved in the investigation at that point he was literally delaying obtaining potential evidence in the case, do you think it was appropriate that then she was involved in the negotiation of the irs deal with hunter biden . I am not following the question. Assistant u. S. Attorneys who participate in investigations also participate in prosecutions. Is that what you are asking . Attorney general, i appreciate your time here today but i am concerned that these facts are just some examples of what has been going on here. I apologize. My time is up. I yield back. The gentleman from maryland is recognized. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I guess i had my five minutes. I would ask for unanimous consent to offer some exhibits. First, i would offer objection. District attorney mr. Braggs, 2021 letter in response to the committee. I would offer the letter from attorney abby lowell, Hunter Bidens attorney to the committee dated september 14, 2023. Objection. I would offer the letter from ms. Willis to the chairman on september 7, 2023. I would offer this article from cnn, top irs official latest witness to dispute allegations from whistleblower on hunter biden tax case. Objection. Thank you, mr. Chairman. The gentle lady from miami. We have been investigating very serious charges made about your department and other elements of the Biden Administration which alleged ignoring the law to protect political allies from being held accountable for their wrongdoing. One aspect of this allegation brought by two very credible whistleblowers from the irs demonstrates a strategy of delaying criminal investigation into hunter biden and blocking any investigations into the corruption of joe biden. The whistleblower testimony notes that u. S. Attorney general david weiss, in november 2022, allowed the statute of limitations to expire even though Hunter Bidens attorney had already agreed to extend the statute on the 2014 and 2015 charges which included an attempt to evade or defeat taxes and the fraud and false statements related to the Million Dollars that burisma paid to hunter biden while his father was Vice President. During a recent transcribed interview with the committee, fbi officials through the Baltimore Field Office refused to answer questions about the expired 2014 and 2015 tax charges because they were allegedly part of a, quote, Ongoing Investigation. Are the tax charges related to these years, in fact, part of the Ongoing Investigation . Again, i have no familiarity with the details of this particular investigation. You dont know one way or another . Our charges for which the statute of limitations have already expired part of an Ongoing Investigation . Again, i dont know anything about this case. Why would charges that have already expired because of the statute of limitations be part of an Ongoing Investigation . To answer in the hypothetical because i dont know the facts, often charges from previous times are used as part of an Ongoing Investigation to inform information about intent, patterns are there other investigations into hunter biden where this information may become relevant . It is a matter of Public Record that there is a tax investigation of hunter biden. Beyond the 2014 and 2015 . Beyond the ones you are referring to. Mr. Weiss has already said that. Is it Standard Operating Procedure in your department of justice for prosecutors to allow the statute of limitations to expire on very serious crimes when the potential defendant has already agreed to an extension . As i said before, there is no Standard Operating Procedure here. Maybe there should be. Maybe you should adopt Standard Operating Procedures to avoid this kind of a circumstance. Would you agree . No. You have answered my question. Thank you. According to one of the irs whistleblowers, quote, the purposeful exclusion of the 2014 and 2015 tax years sanitized the most substantial criminal conduct and concealed material facts, end quote. How can Americans Trust the investigation run by a special counsel who, by allowing the statute of limitation to expire, irreversibly sanitized the most substantive criminal conduct and concealed material facts . The prosecutor in question is an experienced veteran career prosecutor we have no reason to trust him. By President Trump. How much in terms of taxes would hunter biden owed on the 1 million he was paid by burisma . I cant answer that. Probably about 400,000. Is not right . You can do the math. You know the tax code. I dont know anything about the facts of this case so i am not able to do the math. By failing to take the taxes, what with the typical penalty have been for a sample of it was someone who did not have the last name of biden or a d behind their name . These are all questions you will have to direct to mr. Weiss and then mr. Weiss will by allowing the statute of limitations to lapse, mr. Weiss can effectively gift the tax money hunter biden owed for the tax years to mr. Biden. Say again . The decisions about whether in this area and whether these allegations are correct are ones that mr. Weiss will be able to answer. One of the things you have repeated over and over again is that you point out that mr. Weiss appointed you as attorney by President Trump as though that somehow inoculates him from criticism by us. Is that really how this game is played . If someone is appointed by a republican that you are supposed to be on the Republican Team . Or, appointed by democrat, you are on a Democrat Team . Are you on the democrat let me be clear. He was appointed by republicans. That counteracts the claims that this was a partisan decision to benefit them. He remains as a department of justice. The time has expired. The gentleman from maryland is recognized again. Thank you. I want to offer into evidence that testimony, first segments of the testimony of thomas dated september 7. It was taken here before this committee. Go to the deconfliction issue with respect to Hunter Bidens security detail in the search warrant. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from california. Good afternoon. Do you believe Christopher Wray is a confident director of the fbi . I think he is a person of the highest integrity for whom i have great admiration, who has extraordinary experience. Thank you. You certainly dont think he would knowingly give false testimony to this committee . I am sure that he would not. Are you aware that director ray implicated you in a sweeping abuse of power . I doubt he would characterize whatever he said in that way. He testified about the School Board Memo that you issued on october 4 of 2021 in which you mobilized federal Law Enforcement powers against american parents. He did not put it quite like that. You found a pretext which is stated right here in the first line of the memo. In recent months, there was a disturbing spike in harassment, intimidation and threats of violence against school administrators, board members, teachers and staff. What was your basis for making that claim . As i have testified numerous times in response to exactly the same question, i saw numerous reports in the press on violence you saw reports in the press he decided to instigate a nationwide initiative . Numerous reports in the media of violence and threats of violence. School personnel of all kinds. Did you consult with the fbi director . We received a letter from the National Association of school boards. That letter contained anecdotes. Did not contain data. Did you consult with the fbi director before issuing the memo . I dont believe i spoke with the fbi director, no. Why not . The purpose of the memo, as is very clear, is to ask the fbi to assess the situation, to hold meetings you started with a conclusion that there was an increase in threats. If you had bothered to consult with the fbi director, this is what he would have said, he was not aware of any such evidence. My question to you, sir is, can you substantiate your claim that there was an increase . There will always be sporadic terminal activity. Can you substantiate the increase sitting here today . I can substantiate that by the reports and threats of violence and by the letters sent by representatives. You are giving us antidotes. I am asking you if you had data. You also said that you are committed to using the departments authority and resources to discourage these threats, identify them when they occur and prosecute them when appropriate. Were there any such prosecutions . The emphasis would be on when appropriate and there were no such prosecutions. That is good news. There were no prosecutions. There were no arrests. There were no charges. You have no data to show us that there was any increase. You did not even bother to consult with the fbi director. There was no resulting prosecution. I have to ask you now, in retrospect, was there a compelling Law Enforcement justification for the memo . I think you are mischaracterizing the memo. The purpose of the memo was to hold meetings, to open lines of communication. Yes or no, was there a compelling Law Enforcement justification . There was a reason to ask for those contacts to be made. The fbi director disagrees with you. Look at it right here, mr. Attorney general. When asked, do you have any reason to dispute the conclusion that there was no nationwide Law Enforcement justification, he said he didnt. Either he didnt see the report or he didnt see this is the transcript. My question is this, will you retract the memo. By that, i mean, issue a formal document . I will not because there was absolutely nothing wrong with the memo as i have testified several times already. Even though your own fbi director said there was no justification for it, you will not retract it . The memo is mine. It is my decision whether or not to make decisions like this. Are you familiar with the concept of a Chilling Effect . I am very familiar and that is the very reason how would you define the very reason why the second sentence of the memo tell me what you consider to be the memo the definition of the Chilling Effect. That memo has no Chilling Effect. I asked you what is a chilling affect . The second sentence of that i have read the full memo. What do you define the Chilling Effect as . A Chilling Effect is when peoples exercise of First Amendment rights are chilled by coercive mr. Chairman, point of order with respect to the time. The gentlemans time has expired but it was a pretty darn it darn important question. The attorney general did define it and said it did not occur here. I dont think he defined it, he just dismissed it. We now recognize the gentle lady from florida for five minutes. Good afternoon mr. Attorney general. I would like to return to the earlier discussion about the process. A number of the members of this committee and of my community are gravely concerned about the welldocumented abuses of the process and within the proceedings. Declassified opinions in 2018 and 2019, the presiding judge admonished the fbi, stating there still appears to be widespread violations by the fbi and that there appears to be a fundamental misunderstanding of some personnel about what the standard reasonably likely to return for. Mr. Attorney general, what measures has the fbi instituted since that time to ensure that these abuses are stopped . We are talking about the fbi, 702 . Yes, sir. Central park to find out about what coordination states Foreign Terrorists are trying to do in the United States. When i first came into the Justice Department as attorney general, i read the opinions you talked about and they deeply concerned me. I agreed that there was a misunderstanding by operators as to what the query standards were. One of the very first things i did was send a memo to the fbi, directing that way in which the Justice Department did have the query to be examined and corrections be made. This was an extension of the memorandum that attorney general barr had likewise, send to the fbi at the end of 2020. In addition to other things, the ultimate adjustments included additional rney oversight, requiring fbi users to affirmatively opt in to the database, updated guidance and training and enhanced approval requirements. Yes, maam. All of that is true and the consequence was a 90 drop in the number of u. S. Person queries. Nonetheless, you would agree that there are continued needs to review, analyze, and make additional improvements and safeguards to ensure that we dont continue seeing these abuses . I do agree. In recent weeks, we saw President Biden tell his Advisory Board to make recommendations that we continue to revise 702 oversight and restrictions including a recommendation to direct the dni and the attorney general to Research Technological enhancements for the current oversight framework. Tell me, what technology might modernize and improve oversight of the 702 process. One of the technologies that has worked very effectively as the change from opt out to opt in. You have to first of all indicate that you are looking at 702 and not just acrossthe board. You have to have a dropdown window which explains why you are going to do this. Does that require thank you. Are there other Technology Specific changes you would recommend . I would like to consider them more. There are various types of Auditing Programs, the National Security divisions, the Justice Department has done some of that. The fbi at the request of attorney general barr began an Auditing Program like that. The fbi director wray, who also agrees that these kind of noncompliance should not continue, put that Auditing Program into effect. Thank you. I yield the balance of my time to the chairman. dn1 noncomp continue. Put that Auditing Program into effect within the Justice Department. Thank you, mr. Attorney general. I yield the balance of my time to the chairman. Mr. Garland, in david weisss letter to senator graham on july 10th of this year, he says the spirit i was assured that i would be granted special Counsel Authority if it proved necessary. In this assurance came months before the october 7th, 2022 meeting referenced throughout the whistleblowers, excuse me, allegations. How was that assurance given, and who gave it . Im sorry, i think he was talking about 515 authority. Is that what youre im reading the letter now. Hes not talking about special Counsel Authority. It says that i was 515 authority. Okay. Same difference. Well, nothing different, but same fundamental question. Hes making the point that he was assured that this was, he could get the status, and that status came, that assurance, excuse me, came before october 7th, 2022. How was that assurance given, and who gave it . I made that clear in my direction, and that was trent did to him. So you told him that back before october 7th . Im not going to get into exactly the deliberation of the department, but three simple questions. How was it given, who gave it, when was it done . I understand. I gave it direction from the beginning that he would be able to bring a case whenever, wherever he wanted to. And that direction he heard, obviously, and he confirms that here. I went a little overtime, so i told the Ranking Member i extended to him a few seconds or minutes if you wanted to say a few more things or ask a few more questions. Thank you. Let me just ask the attorney general, mr. Attorney general, weve asked many questions here what you were not permitted to answer. People ask the question, just ask another question, didnt permit you to answer. Is there anything youd like to say an answer to anything that you think should be made clear . Look, im grateful to the opportunity, for the opportunity. I just, again, i want to assure the American Public and this committee that the Justice Department follows the rule of law. It enforces the law equally without regard to persons and without regard to parties, and that we do the best we can to follow the facts and the law. Thank you. Mr. Attorney general, we appreciate you being here in the committee. Maybe have to do something official. I guess if anyone wants to add something to it, they can emit that to the record. With that, the committee is adjourned. Thank you. There