Support cspan as a public service. Good afternoon, my name is dr. Castillo and i serve as Vice President for white house history and Senior Historian for the White House Historical association. Its a pleasure to be with you today. I am excited for this panel. We have a great collection of talent, expertise, knowledge to approach this topic and i am excited to share the stage with three of you. Before that, i would be remiss if i did not add fun, historical anecdote to this session. I found this and thought it was amusing. Maybe you will agree or wont. November 6, 1947, harry truman held a press conference in the oval office. In between questions that were revolving around grain exchanges , there was inflation, price controls and also the marshall plan, one reporter piped up, mr. President , have you seen any good movies lately . Truman answered, never get a chance to see a movie unless they bring it to the white house. The only thing icr newsreels. I tried to go when i am not in them. I guess it was funnier in 1947. [ laughter ] his quip touches on one subject we will discuss today. President s in newsreels and real life are very different from the president s portrayed on television and film. These mediums reach and educate countless americans, people around the world, and the office of the presidency. This leads to the questions of accuracy, authenticity, as well as how divine should these boundaries be between history and entertainment . Joining us for this conversation, we have a professor of Political Science. Gloria reuben, actress, author. And tammy. To get us started, you can read more about these individuals in the program. I did want to start by having them talk about their backgrounds, their expertise and the perspectives they will bring today. We will start and moved down the line. I teach Political Science and political theory and gender in politics. I have spent a lot of time in terms of my scholarship and research as a trained political theorist looking at tax to understand what tax teaches about our understanding of politics, society, culture, gender. I started off doing this with regard to a guy named shakespeare who was a cultural right or at the time. I have evolved my scholarship in terms of paying attention to Popular Culture narratives, particularly television and film, from looking at the same way one would look at a Shakespeare Shakespeare play. Politics, society, gender from those Popular Culture texts. I am gloria reuben. I am an actress and singer and author. Many might know me from the show er. [ applause ]. Thank you. I know you are surprised i look the same. I am here to talk about elizabeth in the film lincoln. We had a screaming at the white house when president of obama. Steven spielberg directed the film. As you can imagine, sally field was mrs. Lincoln. Deep historical dive. Everything is authentic. Thats the only way that daniel and tony and stephen would have it, myself included. Not that i had a say. Looking forward to telling you more about the amazing elizabeth chemically. I am tammy haddad. A long time political producer. I have worked at every cable channel you have seen. Larry king live, the today show, msnbc. On the side, i started getting calls to consult on films and tv series about president s and politics and maybe you have heard of some of the shows. All the way, confirmation. I was on capitol hill with a former director for an upcoming netflix show. Im glad to be with all of you. Dont you love this place . Isnt it great . I am glad to welcome you here. You know more about this than i do. I am looking forward to you and lightng all of us. I would like to start with gloria. You mention the role for the film lincoln. Can you tell us more about who elizabeth was . How the role came about and how you prepared for is. I havent seen that image in a long time. Talk about authenticity. Elizabeth was invited to the legates and to go to the opera. Her life was extraordinary. She was born into slavery. Her biological father was the master of the house. I am giving a broad overview. Many things happened when she was a teenager, 13 or 14, she was given as a wedding gift to her halfbrother, one of the legitimate children. He and his wife, they went to North Carolina. While elizabeth was a slave to her brother. She was very much by a neighbor and gave birth to her one and only child named george. A number of years later, elizabeth and george are in st. Louis. Elizabeth is a slave to another legitimate child. By this time elizabeth is supporting her halfsister and her halfsisters husband is not good with finances. Elizabeth has garnered an extraordinary list of clients, not just because of her incredible talent but because of who she was as a person. She was extremely graceful. She was very respectful. She dressed in her own designs. Always looked beautiful. She held her head high even though she had been through extreme trauma for pretty much her whole life. Eventually, elizabeth, for herself and for her is son is diligent in becoming free. She needs to be free and wants her son to be free. She asks her sister for freedom , and her sister said yes. If you pay me 1200. Elizabeth, one of her main clients hears of this, and elizabeth is so well respected in the community that this one client asks other clients, these are high society women, politicians wives, to raise money for elizabeth so she can buy her and her sons freedom. They do so. Elizabeth pace back the women who would like their money back. The ones who gifted the money, shes grateful to do so. Her son by that time goes to the university of ohio. Elizabeth keckley moves to washington, d. C. , opens her own business in washington, d. C. Not that far from here, 1017 12th street northwest. One of her clients, because of her letters of recommendation from st. Louis, garners another group of high society politicians wives as quiet clients. Once said to elizabeth, i would like to set up an appointment with you and the soon to be first lady. Elizabeth keckley meets mary lincoln the morning of the first inauguration and the next day Elizabeth Keckley is hired by mary lincoln to be her personal mode east and elizabeth is her confidant. During this time comp , very soon after the president is sworn in and they are in the white house, in february of 1862 , Willie Lincoln dies of typhoid. Mary lincoln is bereft. Its the second son of the lincolns who has died. Elizabeth keckley is very much a part of the Lincoln Weiss house. The civil wars happening at this time. Mary lincoln has been highly emotional and volatile and president lincoln is very busy trying to deal with the civil war. Elizabeth becomes that confidant , close with the lincolns, both the president and mary lincoln, and their sons. At that time it is Elizabeth Keckley who consoles mary lincoln and it bonds them and their friendship went on and the lincolns were in the white house and beyond. Elizabeth keckley is the one who prepares the little boy for the funeral. She is the one in the room when president lincoln walks in and says good by. Six months prior, elizabeths only son george who could pass as white signed up to fight for the union and the civil war. It was pretty emancipation proclamation. Legally it was not because he was mixedrace, but he signed up because he wanted to fight for the union thats how much he believed in freedom. He died in his first battle and buried in it a mass grave. Elizabeth could never mourn for her son. Preparing little Willie Lincoln was the connection that she made with mary lincoln. They grieved their sons together. That was the bond that created this friendship and please, god help me, that i am making into a film. Theres a book i have the rights to. One of the many books i did research on. Lincoln and Elizabeth Keckley, the unlikely friendship first lady and slave. When i got the call audition for the role and embarrassed i did not know anything about Elizabeth Keckley. Steven spielberg wants me to go on tape. I am like, okay. Daniel daylewis. I google everything i can. As soon as i read that one page, emotionally i connected to this woman. I dont need to go into detail, but i connected to her fortitude, faith and overcoming trauma. Consistently looking forward. Standing up for things that need to be stood up for. I tape. In the scene. Was clear that tony wrote this scene. It is with Elizabeth Keckley and mary lincoln. Its like a monologue because elizabeth is talking about her life. In the scene, elizabeth is sowing. You never bring props but i brought props. My instinct was, i felt i needed to have my hands busy. I brought a silk scarf or something. A needle that was threaded because there was no way i was going to thread the needle. I am prepared. I wanted to have my hands to do something because my son george died last year. He fought for the union. He was a beautiful boy. I got the part. [ applause ] thank you. My research included many things. I read up on and planned and went on and documented my research. I went to the places that were Still Standing where she lived. From virginia, North Carolina to virginia, couple places are historical sites because of Elizabeth Keckley. The first place i went was here. 1017 12th street northwest. I was walking down and turning the corner. Its all corporate buildings. The brownstone is Still Standing. To this day. I took photos of it. It was for sale at the time. I called the realtor. I have some chutzpah. I called the realtor and told that i am doing research on someone who used to live here. I was wondering, maybe someone can let me he gave me the code to get into the building. Im not going to tell you who the realtor was. I walked through those floors where Elizabeth Keckley lived and worked. It needed to be redone. You could see the original brick. It was one of the most profound things. Walking through the brownstone. Walking through the white house when we had the screening with president obama, it was a profound, spiritual experience. I was meant to do this role. I have three projects i want to do before the end of my days, this story of Elizabeth Keckley and Mary Todd Lincoln is a story that needs to be told. Its not about slavery but about freedom and fortitude and strength. Yeah. Thats all ive got. [ applause ]. Thank you for sharing that and giving i dont know about you, but i felt like we were watching the movie in real time. Incredible. Tammy, lets move to you. You have a different experience. You mentioned working as executive producer, being involved in so many different projects. The one i wanted to focus on was the hbo film all the y. Can you tell us more about that project . What was the process like . And tile in your experience, how does this compare to other films or projects you have worked on . Brian cranston. Did anyone see the play . You saw it . The idea of putting it on film after it had this incredible history, i felt so lucky to be connected. I took the director and his production designers and took them to all the rooms on capitol hill. Lbjs original office. We went to the house floor. The person who took us around who has since left, told us the story about how they use to vote. Theres little buttons now that you used to walk down and they would tap into you but food and drop it in. To glorias point, the more real it is, the more successful its got to be true. Thats how life is and thats how it is in film. The time the film directors and producers and stars spent looking into it and taking the time to catch the feeling of it and in the building, then i brought them to the Vice President s office. The Vice President s office in the Old Executive Office building, you open the door and the Vice President s have signed it. Be did that. You could see how moved they were. Then we went to the Vice President s balcony that looks over the white house, and you can feel the history. That is the key thing. The other thing we would do is, we brought them to some of the people that had worked in the lbj administration. Just to hear them talk aboutand familys legacy, there was a little bit of conversation about the family legacy. When we finally did the premier here in dc we did it at the archives. They pulled out the bill of rights. You cannot step away from the importance of the history and understanding this country and how people live, who these people were and what they had to face. Honestly, its incredible you have to make that movie. Who would watch that . I would. Matthew, that is why it is critical what you are doing and why it is good that everyone is here, because you have got to know. I work on the comedy side too. Comedy is more important, it is funnier when it is completely true period. You heard eric, right . There he is right there. We sent the scripts, and we look at it, you deal with big people like i am dealing with j rhodes, i will just tell him to move the camera here. You really have to think about it. We would always say this is how it actually is great you guys decide how to show it. I should mention even though our panel focuses on film, all of our panel has also experienced working, producing and researching television programs. Gloria you are cast as Valerie Jarrett who served as the senior Vice President for barack obama in the showtime series, first lady. Can you tell us more about that role and the fact that we have these two different roles, television versus film. Tell us about that because you have done both. Does that change your preparation or process . Not so much. Its the whig. I love that. It was so much fun. Valerie, ms. A jarrett, i call her of how, it is a different way of going about work. You only have so much time with a lot of work to do and not a lot of time. There is that. It is a little more pressure to play someone who is still walking the earth because, you know, you want to get it right. I loved, of course, how important thou, ms. Jarrett was for the obamas in the chicago days and the kind of relationships that she did and does have with michelle and the former president , of course. Their relationships are still extremely strong she is now ceo of the obama foundation. There was a very intense time in the way that, again, the limited timeframe, i am very sensitive to energy, so it gets more phonetic, which is fine for the role because that was what was going on at the time, everything was phonetic. The process for me is always the same. I dive as deep as i can. I was only in a few episodes, it doesnt matter the amount it just matters the quality of the content. I read her autobiography, there are tons of stuff that you can watch, obviously very different from Elizabeth Keckley. There was just something about her. You just cannot help yourself. You just have to love her because she has all this energy and goodness beaming out of her. And power. She was the most powerful woman ever in the white house. Exactly. Yes. Back me up here. The monochromatic suits him at the power suits and all solid, exactly. The glasses that match the suit , she is a spitfire in every way, smart as a whip, and can handle those i dont know if i can say it. You can say anything here. I met like the former chicago mayor. She had to deal with men who were very tough. Thank you. I got this. It really was great. It is a shame that showtime did not pick that up series for another how many years. Lily i want to turn to you now, you are a professor of Political Science im a bit of a ringer on this panel. You take a different approach to these things. We are talking television and film and people who have pretrade the president and how the president is pretrade and what are the expectations of what a president is or should look like or act. I want you to tell our audience a little more about how race and gender shape our pop culture presence. You have a few slides so take this. Just hit the green arrow. There we go. Is is a movie called deep impact from 1988. A lot of this sear comes out of this book which is a decade old called women in the white house, gender, Popular Culture and president ial politics. I am one of the editors of this with justin vaughn. In any event, i was writing a paper in 2007, obama was camped out in iowa, Hillary Clinton was running for president and i was curious, because i had done all this work on television and gender roles and representation , i was curious about the portrayal of the president by men of color, perhaps, and also by women. I was really looking at who would get thnonation based on what i saw in Popular Culture. Wasnt more likely to be ck obama or Hillary Clinton on t democratic side in 2008. Member when Morgan Freeman pl the esidt in this movie about a asteroid g the earth in 1998 called deep impact that he was president of the United States. There was another movie that came out about a week after it, they both were greenlighted the same time in hollywood, hollywood. It was called armageddon and really bob thornton played the president and that. You have asteroids hitting the earth as a narrative and in one movie you have a black president and in the other a traditional white president. We will go through the list of movies. There was no controversy about the fact that Morgan Freeman was playing the president , granted he was had already played god, maybe this was a step down. But two of the same narratives that had huge budgets were made by two different studios came out within weeks of each other, that was the controversy. Not the fact that you had a African American actor playing the president. In 1998 you did not see that much of that. As i started to do the research i went back and looked at the deep impact issue, again, you can talk about this issue. We are used to seeing people like martin sheen, michael douglas, alan alda, Harrison Ford, kiefer sutherland, bill pullman, James Cromwell who has played the president twice and Prince Philip once, he seems to be the type for male leaders and Billy Bob Thornton are those are usually the folks who are cast in television or film as president. I was sort of looking at we have this example of Morgan Freeman and then i was looking forward and at that point in 2007 we had, and db woodside on a Television Show 24 as president. We also had chris rock as president in the movie head of state. Terry crews in a theocracy and also at that point jimmy smits in the west wing which we talked about, there is an evolving category or grouping that i saw, black men, or men of color who were sort of getting into the narrative. I was looking at that and as i was looking at that, i went a little bacar, of course as one does as a historian, there is a film from 1933 at features a black president but really the first one in the contemporary. Is this movie call the man starring James Earl Jones it was made in 1972. It is almost impossible to watch it i found that t ile doing this research. It was very difficult find. I asked my friendof the library of congress to dig it up for me. Written by rod sterling. It is essentially about this backbench senator who is also a college professor, the president dies, the speaker of the house dies, Vice President is sick and he becomes president accidentally because all of these people get out of the way and he is a backbench senator. Here we have this film in 1972 when the president is a black man accidentally in the office. I started to look at the narratives around the people who were being presented as president aside from the white guys. What i found was, you have this move with regard to featuring black men, or men of color as president who accidentally get into the job, it is a long. Of time, we have watched this evolve over movies and film. Like chris rock and head of state. Then you start evolving into if there is a president of color who gets elected like david palmer on 24. I am noting this narrative trajectory refers there is a accidental black president or president of color, then they are actually elected in the narrative as fictional individuals. En i start looking at the female president s if you have not seen kisses by president cameout in 1964. I might suggest you might want to e it, perhaps. It really is Fred Mcmurray who becomes the first husbandwhen his wife is elected president. She does not geelected accidentally she actually comes into the office. In 1964 you cannot be president and pregnant together. At the end of the film were turns out shes pregnant she resigns from the white house. That is why i said you might want to watch it, or you might notit is kind of backwards, forwarblem. Is at how they thought the fintlen would dress . I guess so. All of the female characters in this movie have very androgynous names. We start to look at what is in front of me in the late 1990s and into the 2000 as we have seen in television and you start to see, if there is a fema president like gina davis and commander in chief which we talked about this morning, she gets there accidentally. If we look at battle star galactica we have a female president she gets there accidentally. In fact she is 42nd in line in battle star galactica. Again, it is scifi, but whatever. And of course you have glenn close in air force one where she does not actually become president , she is the Vice President. She never signs the papers to become president when Harrison Ford is on the plane with the terrorist. Then you have joan allen in the contender. You anticipate that she is president but you do not see it. What i started to see is a hatter. It was really fascinating that pattern became clear, African American men and men of color had become president accidentally and then they evolved into getting elected and film. Women, same story. Theyve moved into that office accidentally and then the same way they became essentially elected as we have seen in some subsequent television and film. Sherry jones becomes president in 24 and is elected into that office. Again, what was interesting to me is the fact that the female characters, this narrative was much more telescope than it was for the black or people of color men. Ultimately, when i concluded my research in 2007 i said the likelihood is, barack obama gets the nomination and is elected president. Political scientist do not like to be prognosticators, but i thought i was onto something. My research was looking not only at the representation issue because we have seen more people who dont look like alan alda or martin sheen in fiction, and that also helps us if you are watching the show, imagine someone who does not look like the 44 people who have been in that office before, the 45 people who have been there before, imagine what they would look like if they looked different. We become more used to and possibly more accepting of someone who does not look like the 45 white guys who have actually been in that office because we have imagined it and we have been on this narrative rides with people who are president of the United States in fiction and we can think about that idea and give it air and space to breathe again, i think that is one of the ways that barack obama was able to present himself as part of that narrative in the late oughts. Kisses from my president. That image will haunt me. Thank you for sharing that research. The one thing i was thinking about when you were talking is, of course this is cyclical because we will continue to have elections and, do you care , take a wager and guess what you can see on the horizon in terms of are we going to see a change in who could be in that office aside from who are the leading candidates currently . Do you see us at another Inflection Point where perhaps we can learn more from pop culture tendencies about forecasting the next four to eight years. As art and life go back and forth with one another as we talked about earlier, the fact that we had an elected Vice President who happens to be a woman and a person of color suggest that some of the ground work was laid in certain ways by having that become more normalized. We saw sarah palin run for Vice President in 2008. We have seen women running for president more frequently now. And also individuals of color, both men and women running for president more than we had not only previous to obama but to some degree previous to having the idea of who occupies that space, that sort of iconic space in our imagined mines. Who can be in that space and have it be more normalized. May i Say Something . I was going to run for president but i was born in canada so i cant. Even more than that i swear way too much. I curse all the time i would never last the day. You could run for congress. This is a question for all of the panelist. Feel free to respond to the question or to one anothers responses. One thing i was struck by is how we, as moviegoers have changed our Consumption Habits with film, with the rise of streaming services more more people are watching movies at home versus going to a Movie Theater, a trend that was accelerated by the pandemic. How do you see this impacting the Film Industry and the types of movies or shows that will be produced and how can that pretrade the presidency . Getting into the dynamics earlier we talked about the studios and what they decide to make, how much should it reflect reality or not, how is the moviegoing experience now that it is changing, how will that impact the types of shows we see . I know we were talked about this earlier, if my i may jump in, because of covid everyone has change their habits of movie viewing and streaming television shoes shows. Some of you may know there is a right to strike on because of this issue. It has changed the landscape financially for writers and actors. The handful of mega streamers, we all know who they are, they are making a lot of money and its not trickling down. On that front, actual Movie Theaters are still around, some did not make it, but there is a love of going to the movies. As someone who has been in this business for very long time, there are a couple of things that play, economic disparity happens all the time in movies and television, it happens all the time. Second, everybody will always love going to the movies now that streaming is here to stay. That is for sure. Personally, i think if a film opens in the theaters first for maybe three months or something and then available on one of those major streamers, awesome. The audience gets a choice of going to the movies, having that communal experience. For me it stays with me you cannot posit you are there and have to be committed to the story. I love that, it stays with you longer than streaming. Mind you, streaming has its benefits as well. There is a new Television Show, speaking of streaming, it is called the diplomat. You talked about that earlier. It is a great series, she is amazing and is incredible. I am not going to say what happens but there is this possibility of becoming president. To your question of how is media changing, i am curious to see the Second Season and how that does progress, if it does. Movies are here to stay, support Movie Theaters, please. Continue to enjoy streaming great we can have the best of both but it is important to support the actual movie cinemas. And pay the writers and actors. Yes. We were talking about this a little before grade i dont know if anyone has seen the First Episode of white house on hbo. Come on guys. It is on sunday night, Woody Harrelson and justin grote it is the story of the watergate plumbers. It is always a surprise to me even though i am in that dc forever, how much people are interested in washington. Dave mandel is a great producer , they have this story. Watergate. There are 15 books about watergate, so many books, but they found a story never been told about the plumbers who broke into the offices four times. They were arrested and the whole story of nixon was because of the plumbers and no one focused on it. All these years later, there are so many stories to tell, the thing that i worry about is for example, plumbers is six or seven episodes, limited series, you guys know the language. There are not that many tv films, lbj as a film, i would think hbo would make it today, you have to do it in a series because you have to amortize your cost, it changes production. I watched the diplomat last night. The interest in political shows, in president , people power, that interest is there. I am a cable news producer, people are more interested in washington and they see what happens at the white house affects them directly. It is not separate. If you think about the pillars of leadership, by the way, the pillars of democracy, youre talking government and media, this past weekend was the white house correspondence weekend and Bradley Whitford was here, of course from west wing, people still line up to talk to him because they felt something. You mesmerized all of us had that feeling that you get when you are watching the shows together and you connect. That is what is so still important. I agree with you about going to the theater i worry about people not going to theater. There is still a lot of power and it is increasing. People want to know what is it like behind the scenes. Watch plumbers tonight. Justin thoreau grew up in washington, was never at the white house, for many of us who have access to come here, Woody Harrelson was in game changer. They do not have this kind of access to hear the stories and they find it compelling. Even if you have this amazing career to learn about how things happen. I would just add the ideas of the narrative evolving. We saw this and madam secretary where Elizabeth Mccoy becomes president in the last season of that show, we have seen it with regard to veep. You do have these narratives that can expand. That is one of the differences when i talk about this in a academic way, you tell a three hour story or a two hour store in a film and you can tell a 13 hour story in a series. Sometimes they have a couple of episodes too many. Its all in the set up. My agent had three episodes at best. I have never heard of night agent. It is really good and i had never heard the language my agent at the white house. They are doing a Second Season. There are different narratives that get told in different spaces. Absolutely going to the movies because it is an encapsulated story. We were talking about the fact of would there be a reunion of west wing early this morning. The west wing went on for seven seasons, there were 23, 24 episode seasons, you got to know the characters well and that is a different experience in terms of following the narrative and where you are watching it. Maybe you go get something to drink and come back. In a Movie Theater you are there and and it. It is emotionally different and that pushes on different parts of our understanding. I feel like there are so many ways to get distracted. You are watching at home and there are always phones and ipads and children and all kinds of things. If you are in a Movie Theater you are focused on that screen. Scandal, another political show, was the first show that played two screens all the actors were tweeting, they were the first ones, they were the first ones that showed the truman balcony. Got president obama to take them up there and that is exactly how the truman balcony was. I think we can all agree that this series of Elizabeth Keckley , we get that as movie and we all go to the Movie Theater together. We do have time for audience q a. Anyone in the back . Thank you. My question is about portrayal of atrocities. Steven spielberg has done a lot of movies where he talks about the holocaust and how he changes the message for the masses in supporting things like the u. S. Holocaust. When it comes to slavery and president s that message does not get through. That is the reason why some activists when they talk about slavery and the need for proposed commission in slavery we cannot get it through because Popular Culture does not present it that way. Do you feel that when there is too much of a wrench in it makes it seem like it was just not there . Versus between mary lincoln and elizabeth. Thank you. I dont know if my question made sense. I am a little confused on the question. Are you asking if the listenership between Elizabeth Keckley and mary lincoln diffused the issue of racism thats i not racism slavery. Slavery great thats what i meant. Also with the atrocities around the world is the trade and Popular Culture, we can feel the pain and support policy about that. I gave the example the holocaust. When it comes to slavery we do not get the same sense. I understand what you are saying. They are two separate things for me to comment on. In terms of the atrocity clearly of slavery, there are some extraordinary films that are very factual and extremely disturbing and unforgettable. When it comes to slavery in times of certain president s during those years, i dont know of any, but i dont know of a single film that was ever made. It would depend on how one goes about telling that story. We pretty much know the Broad Strokes, if you will. How did you bring it into the personal story of one particular president who is dealing with something specific. I dont know if i making much sense. If you can narrow it down to the individual stories, that can be a compelling thing. The Broad Strokes of it, i am not a filmmaker, i think it might be more challenging to write and portray. I have never thought about it in depth. Perhaps there is an opportunity. When it comes to Elizabeth Keckley and mary lincoln and Elizabeth Keckley in the white house , obviously during that time, the emancipation proclamation happened during the lincoln presidency as did the passing of the 13th amendment. And that scene of Elizabeth Keckley and mary lincoln that did happen elizabeth was there. In this story it is Elizabeth Keckleys life but honestly those two vital instances will be a part of the story time. This is between her meeting mary lincoln and after the president dies. Take note, part of the story that i will be presenting in the film is the influx of numerous slaves being freed. There was the influx of freed slaves. Elizabeth keckley actually started a foundation, a nonprofit, to help newly freed slaves contraband association. She would go through these, they were literally tent camps and talk to some of these freed slaves prayed this is documented. The response was very from i want to go back because at least i had a roof over my head and food to, i am so glad i am free to the country owes me everything. That scope, that will be part of the story as well. Those are specific and very important things, the emancipation proclamation, the 13th amendment and what was happening with the freed slaves and what they were thinking during that time. I dont know if that answers your questions, but i hope it is helpful. There is always a story to be told, it has to be specific. It has to be the personal story of how it is connected to the bigger issue. Thats what keeps in peoples minds. Penniless, you know, as they we have been greatly benefited from this beautiful session, you have talked about your opinion and perspective of the film of the president. I came to see the realization of the american president s dream, at this time what i see how the film is bringing the perspective of other Founding Fathers, sometime i feel it is not the same. When i moved to america 35 years back, i had the great images of those great people, the president s. I would like to see in the film the same thing. If we like the buildup of a character according to the founding spirit of america, then we have to see how film is serving to america. When we go outside america people ask, what is america . What are the president s of america . Social media has brought so many things, but so many distorted things. It is not something that is the true story of america. True story of america we can learn from a great perspective of Founding Fathers and i believe specifically when i was hearing you, you were using not only your words but your true perspective and thank you very much. I wish to congratulate the historical effort. This is, i am also serving the First National tourism channel. I am the president of this in pakistan. I am dr. John well. I am one of the Vice President of lincoln in dc. I want to congratulate you on your portrayal of Elizabeth Keckley. I am an Infectious Disease specialist and i want to compliment you on your trail of jeannie in er rethinking back to it, we did not even have effective treatment for hiv. People should go back and watch that if they have not seen it because they handled hiv really well. Thank you for it. This is directed to gloria reuben. You mentioned something that i think is very important and i hope you can expand more about it, about the economic disparity among the viewers of television in movies. Some of the most quality things are on premium cable channels, which are out of my budget range, i have to wait several months later in order to view them on netflix, after september i dont think i can do that anymore, why are so many of these pitched to the more Expensive Television tent channels why not cbs . I dont know. I was kind of referencing when we were talk about the Writers Strike and the disparity and producers, your point is well taken. When i think about these megacorporations that are the top five or six of these streaming and the membership, that money goes to certain people and they are not sharing the wealth. It does it is not like Network Television where lincoln tune in like er, that does not happen anymore. It is a valid point, access is not available for everyone. I know for myself, i will get a couple of, especially over covid , streaming things, then this is six dollars a month i will do that and then before you know it you are doubling up. How much money . Let me go through and see who i am paying to what and what i am getting from this. It is not like projects are specifically going to specific streamers or streaming channels, if you have a script or a show, who will buy it . Who wants to tell that story . If you get the yes you have to go for it because it is a brutal business. It took Steven Spielberg 10 years to make lincoln. That is Steven Spielberg great he had someone else cast and then something happened. It all worked out fine, but it takes time. It is not easy. To get it made, it is a miracle that things end up on the air. It is a miracle. I understand not everyone can afford it, maybe choose one. I should not be saying this, choose one and stick with it and get another one and see the shows that you want to see and then cancel that discussion to go to another. People do that all the time. I think i can address part of that. The shows like first lady and, these shows are much more expensive, even the whole idea of everything has to be accurate. We talked about the white house plumbers, they had to rebuild those sets. This is all expensive that is why premium channels tend to do it. If you remember when netflix started . They started with house of cards. They knew a political show was the most powerful way to come in. We have not talked about this and i dont want to end on doom and gloom, if you look at broadcast tv, there is no way er would ever exist. The companies are taking their money and putting into streaming channels, for the broadcast channels there are game shows in prime time and cbs has a lot of dramas but those are much more expensive. The sense is, if you put all this money into streaming, youre not putting it into broadcast channels. Will they exist in the same way . Will if you are a nbc affiliate, the reason why you affiliate as you want nbcnews, you want nbc primetime programming you want the today show and this and that, there are marker type of things. If there is no er, i love jane lynch and those game shows, will that carry . That is one of the big things. That makes what you said about pick the channel and try it and cancel and go to the next thing. The problem also is, everyone looks at the stock price now, they are cutting back on the amount of original programs. Netflix it is remarkable what they achieved in building programming. It is not for the next year. I have wanted to bring jeannie back, i did, her bible count is zero. I would have gotten the viewers. Those are all good points. Last question. Hello. My question is, do you think movies Like White House down and air force one, where the president is in trouble portrayed the presidency , the white house or america in a negative light to americans and around the world . We talked a little bit about the vulnerability that we are seeing in the narrative portrayal of the presidency in movies Like White House down. You also saw this in movies Like Air Force one. This goes to, to some degree, not only the vulnerability of the presidency but also a heroic this about the president which is where we want to think about that space and the person in it. A narrative that cast this heroic individual in this office as vulnerable or in a way compromised is also a really good story. I think that combined with conspiracy theories that we have these days is where we see some of this coming through in portrayals of the presidency and the president in him or herself. We did not get to talk about this much, when i was a kid i remembered seeing independence day. You see the part where the aliens blow up the white house. That is pretty jarring, as a kid your like thats cool. Im not supposed to say that now because were supposed to preserve the white house. Scifi is another whole genre that we did not touch on a whole lot but it is interesting that idea of nobility because it is like, heres the most powerful person in the world but i need help or superheroes to help me. I am totally interrupting you. What about, the best white house movie comedy scifi, mars attacks. Remember . That was a starstudded cast. We have gone over time. I want to thank our panelists for this exciting conversation. If you enjoy American History tv, sign up for our newsletter using the qr code on the screen to receive the weekly schedule of upcoming programs like lectures, history, the presidency and more. Sign up for the American History tv newsletter today and watch American History tv every saturday, or anytime online at cspan. Org history. Did you know all of the cpspan American History programs are available to watch online x go to cspan. Org history and type in the search box. Go to cspan. Org history. Weekends on trying to 2 our intellectual peace. 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