Transcripts For CSPAN3 IRS 20240703

The Oversight Committee will reconvene. Were now back in order. The chair recognizes miss crockett for five minutes. The Oversight Committee will reconvene and we are back in order and the chair recognizes ms. Crockett for five minutes. The problem with going this late in the game that there is so much out there that you are all over the place so just rock with me for a bit. I want to get the elephant out of the room and to be clear, both of you provided deposition testimony. In those depositions, neither one of you ever stated that President Joe Biden interfered with your investigations, correct . The transcript doesnt include that. Nor does it include that Merrick Garland interfered with your investigations, correct . The transcript doesnt say that. Thank you. The reason i say that is because it is the insinuation that this committee is trying to make or least one side of this committee is trying to make is that for some reason there was interference. My colleagues continue to make sure that they outlined the fact that this investigation started and the trump administration. That is the reason about who appointed who comes up and at the end of the day we have no evidence whatsoever that the president nor the attorney general of the United States interfered. What i also want to make sure we outline some legal principles since we have so many newfound prosecutors today on this committee. Number one, to be clear, just because you investigate something, it doesnt mean there will be a conviction, correct . That is correct. In fact in the criminal Justice System, you are cloaked in a presumption of innocence. That is what happens in the constitution. We all have a role to play and your role is investigative, correct . Correct. You have one responsible for taking evidence and actually they probably have an investigator in their office and there usually is an investigator directly within their office that will review any documentation that you provide and they will sit down and talk to the ausas office about recommendations like what the charges will look like and things like that. Is that not correct . If it is ive never seen that. Let me be clear. There is a level after you get done with your investigation in which the u. S. Attorneys office will then look at the evidence you have provided and make decisions, correct . Yes. All four assigned attorneys will lead with recommended felony and misdemeanor tax charges. I heard your testimony before and i wont dispute that. The differences is that i have done the defense side of this before so as far as i am concerned it sounds like a sweetheart deal because i have never played everyone to every single count of a federal indictment in the first place unless they only had one count and i always negotiated. Unlike on the state level, i typically do my negotiations a lot of times before an indictment because a lot of times my clients are turning evidence over and all kinds of things but the thing is those conversations have never taken place with an investigator. They always take place at the u. S. Attorney. The point is, you dont have the ultimate charging authority. The people who did, they decided to do what they wanted to do for whatever reasons, correct . In my experience, i have always been a part at that table talking to the you essay and talking about the charging decisions so it is an accurate that an investigator is an involved. This time it was different for you and that is why you felt there was something wrong. I want to get to Something Else quickly. I want to talk about what we should be prosecuting, the fact that in 2017 trumps first year in office he also made six point 5 million from china that his tax returns show and the source of those payments isnt clear and the payments were a surprise since trump is an outspoken critic of the 5. 8 million that hunter biden made and the differences trump was our president when he made this money from china whereas, i am sure he would agree that hunter biden has always been a private citizen. We have a lot of other stuff. In fact, it is clear that trump never paid more than 750 in taxes for, i want to say, a total of two years of his taxes, which is absolutely insane. We also know that it showed trump claimed large cash donations to charities, but the report said the irs didnt verify them and they say well the tax filings were large and complicated, the irs doesnt appear to have assigned experts to work on that and that is shameful. In addition, we did hear testimony earlier that talked about whether or not you executed a search warrant under section 913. 420 under the justice manual and states that when searching the premises of an attorney the subject of an investigation prosecutors are expected to take the least intrusive approach and it is kind of what they did for trump when they gave him a number of opportunities to turn over the documents or National Secrets that he kept in the toilet, but he chose not to and that is why he is facing federal charges in florida. Finally, i want to make sure we clear up something about the central park five. I dont inc. My colleague from the other side of the aisle understands that not only were they found are not guilty but they were paid 41 million in a 2014 settlement because their civil light rights were violated. In addition to that we know one of the central park five serves on city council. I ask unanimous consent that i allow this into the record. The ladies time has expired but will you yield to a quick question . Yes. You made the argument that trump received 6 million from china and hunter biden receive money from china but do you know exact we what hunter biden did to receive the money from china because that is something we had a hard time trying to figure out. I think i know what trumps businesses were and i dont know if it is right or wrong and i know what his businesses are and i dont know what the bidens businesses are. You dont know what it is not. So you have no idea why or why not they receive that money . You have no evidence of that . Can i submit this nbc article for the record as well . Without objection. I would say in this article is specifically says that the source of a number of trumps monies, it was unclear to say that he did have businesses there and he did to say he opened some Bank Accounts in china, but they couldnt find the source of the monies that were paid to him from china. The chair recognizes mr. Turner for five minutes. There is a lot of information and lets try to lay this out for the American People. Quick answers. How long have each of you worked for the irs . 14 years. 13. Is it fair to say you both of had had successful careers there and i recognize for your achievement there . I believe so, yes. Absolutely. Are either of you overly partisan people . I am not. I have made an effort to not be overly partisan. Apology. Do you have a burning desire to be a spectacle at a congressional hearing or do you want to be on tv or are you looking for your 15 minutes of fame here . I would prefer not to be here. I never imagined this would happen, but here i am. Quickly, why did you step forward . Because we need the equal application of justice and we hear the stories about these crimes committed that are horrible but without the equal application of justice, i dont understand how we move forward. I dont understand how i meet my oath of office if i dont do what i can to make sure that occurs. There are 300 million taxpayers out there that they think this is a big deal because they are paying their taxes and they see somebody who isnt. It is a matter of accountability. It is twofold. We need to hold those accountable who basically, for the last five years havent been following proper procedure. The second part of this is i think we need to have some reform or something that is builtin there that this doesnt happen again, investigators. The biden family and their associates received millions in a Global Payments in companies funneled through various Shell Companies and is that correct . Correct. 17. 3 million. What is a special agent report . The report that recommends prosecution for various charges, each of which are then proven. Approximately how many over your career have you been a part of or prepared . Hundreds. Did you complete a special agent report for the hunter biden case i did. When it was sent up the chain of command just like you have been involved with and in your case hundreds of times, did you notice anything outside of the normal process that you have grown used to over the years . The criminal tax attorneys was definitely an appropriate and out of the norm, but no. After that, the Senior Leadership quickly trumped ct counsel and they concurred with the charges. We sent it forward to the division for further approval. Everything that he said was correct. You recommended felony charges, mr. Shapley, in this special agent report and we do all know the answer, but with hunter biden ultimately charged with those felonies . No. What role did leslie wolf play . She was an assistant United States attorney out of the district of delaware assigned to the investigation. You met with her and her team during the case . Correct. In your testimony you described leslie wolf who was once again overseen the case out of delaware as saying during the meeting that she didnt want to ask about the big guy and stated she didnt want to ask questions about dad and is that statement accurate. I want to remind you that you are under oath. And you asked that question one more time so i can understand. Leslie wolf said during a meeting that she didnt want to ask about the big guy and stated she didnt want to ask questions about dad. There are twofold do that. There is the line in the email that said 10 held by h to the big guy and that was something that came up as a part of us reviewing what we were going to say during that day. She immediately says, no, we wont ask that. And essentially we had to argue our stance on why we should ask it and it was ultimate we that it was unknown. You stated in public interviews, mr. Shapley, the you are stopped from taking investigative steps that you believe could have potentially connected this hunter biden case to President Biden. Is that correct . Correct. I will summarize. We have two credible partisan nine nonirs people confirming there are Shell Companies to the biden ministration we have hunter biden whom most of us wouldnt hire to dog sit receiving these millions of dollars for services that they cant come over it and tell us about and potentially linked to President Biden but we dont know that for a fact because you are shut down and not allowed to pursue the investigative angle you wanted to. This is something we have to get to the bottom of an it is shameful what is happening and i want folks to mark my words that we wont be stifled and this committee wont be stifled by the department of justice or anyone in the Biden Administration and we will pursue this and get to the bottom of this no matter what. Thank you and i yield back. The chair recognizes mr. Gomez. Thank you so much. I want to be clear that whistleblower allegations should be taken seriously. I had a whistleblower approach my office during my first term but one of the things i learned from that is there is a clear fact based process that needs to be followed to make sure the whistleblower investigation is executed properly without political interference and this is not what is happening here today. Where this originated in ways and means, republicans through that process into the governor better. There are more than 50 people identified in the committee on the same topic that once spoken to and not interviewed before the republican majority released these allegations to the public and they didnt take the time to check their fact. And republicans even admitted during questioning that they never interviewed or asked questions or sought to ask questions of these individuals. Instead, they cherry picked 13 people whom they knew agreed to corroborate their claims and why wouldnt they conduct a thorough investigation and interview all people identified who may have information in this case . There are more than 50 people who werent given the opportunity to defend their names or respond allegations or give this inquiry context and facts. Also the whistleblower transcript contains unauthenticated unverified documents from unknown searches on the internet and the exhibit used by the gentleman from ohio in the early part of this hearing is one of those unverified documents pulled from the internet. Yet they treat it as a smoking gun. You can literally find anything on the internet and that doesnt make it true. Republicans refuse to verify their sources. There trying to give the appearance that these documents are from irs files provided by the whistleblower or some trusted source. In fact, they are not. These documents are unauthenticated. We dont even know their real source. What kind of basis is this for a Serious Investigation . Three, the majority released this transcript with all of these errors i cited to the public before verifying any of these allegations and they put the cart before the horse declining to speak to dozens of valuable witnesses and refusing to verify the information push to the public throwing this process and its credibility out the window. Additionally, this process has been tainted by the fact that one of these whistleblowers attorneys has made substantial contributions to the republican chairman of ways and means as recently as february of this year. One of these whistleblowers didnt even come voluntarily. He was asked to testify by a supervisor. None of this inspires confidence in these efforts of my colleagues across the aisle or in the process that has been taken. If my colleagues were serious about these allegations, they would have gone through the proper steps to make sure this investigation was done correct lee, but they didnt. They dragged this investigation and committee into the gutter. That was approved by the gentleman from georgia. If the gutters where they choose to live and the only purpose of this is to drag us down there woman with them. I dont want part of it. I ask them to submit a letter outlining improper steps taken in the majority of this investigation. Without objection, so ordered. With that i would like to yield my time. I want to return to the Washington Post article and i ask unanimous consent to enter it into the record. In your testimony, mr. Shapley, before the ways and Means Committee, you stated there was a leak and it appeared to come from the agents level who was article of the prosecutors for not charging the case. What you testified earlier is little different and which one do you stand by today . I am sorry. Can you repeat that . There was a leak and it appeared to come from the agents level who is critical of the prosecutors for not charging the case. Yes. It appeared because it said it came from the agents level but the source was a source familiar with the topic and it didnt say it was a Law Enforcement source. Okay. It seems to be a distinction i think without a difference. And then you understand that, obviously, leaking jury information is a felony, right . Yes. Would you agree that there would be some skepticism for many prosecutors about which of the agents may be the source of a leak . Feel free to answer the question. Because there have been multiple leaks on this investigation and there is one on september 9 of 2020 there appears to have one i was asking about october 6. It would cause anyone suspicion . At an agent level . Yes. That is what you said. The time is expired and your the next question for five minutes. We are talking about obvious skating and diverting and spin and a whole lot of word vomit from the other side of the aisle and making no sense as to what we are here for today and you hear a lot of trump and Rudy Giuliani. And we are not talking about either of those gentlemen today and i want to thank both of the witnesses and i think it has been established that you are very credible and experienced and your subject Matter Experts at what you do and, mr. Shapley, you let a team of 12 elite agents in this investigation and how long were you doing the sportsman or hunter biden investigation . I started in january 2020. So 2 to 3 years . Correct. Both are aware that one of Hunter Bidens lawyers has accused you of having access and asked to grind and you are disgruntled agents. Are you a political activist, mr. Shapley . I am not. Mr. Ziegler, are you a part of the Maga Movement . I am not. You are not. Thank you. Are you two out to get hunter biden, or are you out to get justice . This is about justice here. That is why a plea agreement when people asked me to comment about that it is outside of my control. It is justice. Okay. The Ranking Member who was rather bombastic reclaiming earlier that this is all normal stuff and there is no evidence that hunter biden received preferential treatment so, mr. Ziegler, do you agree with those statements . That this was normal stuff and nothing out of the ordinary and hunter biden didnt received preferential treatment . Based on my transcript, i would believe that the question would be incorrect. Would you say you vehemently disagree with those statements . I dont the could changes my perspective of it and all i can say is we came forward with the information of slow walking and not following the investigative steps. It was out of the ordinary. Yes. Do you agree or disagree . Yes it was out of the ordinary. So when you read the transcribed interviews, which are pretty massive in and of themselves, it is clear there was interference or roadblocks that the doj and federal government personnel put in front of you and was astounding if not unprecedented and in these pages i was shocked to see how an assistant u. S. Attorney stonewalled and scuttled your investigation. Lets go back to december 2020 and the Prosecutorial Team is meeting to discuss steps and hunter biden received millions of dollars in foreign payments with the Shell Companies and to this day nobody can tell what owasco ever did other than accept money. So nobody knows what services the company ever provided and it is december 2020. Hunter is vacating the dc offices and moving those documents to a storage unit in Northern Virginia and, were you interested in what some of those documents might reveal . Yes, we were. Possibly could you have shed light on criminal activity or a felony . Unfettered access to the documents there before defense counsel can filter them would have been at a tatians adventitious. Did you prepare an affidavit to search that . Yes. Did u. S. Attorney weiss agree that if it wasnt accessed for 30 days you could access the warrant . Yes. That seems weird to wait 30 days and how do you know if somebody accesses it . Are they under surveillance or will there be a stakeout and do we call Richard Dreyfus and have them there with their binoculars checking it out . It wasnt in the transcript but this was unique, this location, where it would have been easier than what you described to see if it was accessed. You didnt have to wait 30 days because leslie was, what did she do when she learned he wanted to execute the search warrant . She actually first approved and was saying it will take approvals for us to get this done, but then came back a few days later and said, no, we wont move forward with this. I was the one who proposed, lets wait 30 days and we will get the approvals and we will make sure the storage unit is not accessed. We can then move forward with the warrant. Her response was i will think about it. We then come to find out a few days later that they had let defense counsel no that we know about this. The u. S. Attorney tipped off the lawyers of a person subject of a years long criminal felony investigation . Is that what youre saying . Did leslie was tip off Hunter Bidens lawyers regarding the storage unit . Because once you know that if you are a subject of a criminal investigation, any of those documents that can incriminate you will probably need a match and gasoline. That is astounding to me and direct reference evidence of preferential treatment. Is that normal . That with my redline situation and a little bit different than how mr. Shapley refers to it. I didnt think we had a seat at the table and it disappointed me so badly, but i knew this was something we were up against and it was like, okay, that is what they decided to do. Have you seen anything like that before in your decades of experience . Time expired and feel free to answer the question. No. I have not. I have not either. I think you are both excellent Public Servants and you are courageous and justice is the only thing i want to be blind. Not the media and not Top Administration officials. I yield back. I would love to get the extra minute as well. Thank you for being here. We dont have a lot of time and i do have a lot of questions and if i cut you off, i am not trying to be rude but get through them. I want to talk a little bit about the evidence you did have. You are the case agent, mr. Ziegler. How many documents did you say or would you say you gathered during the fiveyear investigation . However i do believe i may have documents and i am limited by the statute. But i would be more than welcome to turn those over. How many . The number . It was a significant amount. Hundreds of thousands . Millions . I dont want to put a number to it but a lot. A lot of bank records both domestic and foreign . Yes. That is correct. You conducted a search warrants . Yes. There was reference in our transcripts to conducting electronic search warrants. The did you other search warrants . What you mean . Anything electric or physical . I will stick to what i stated. There were multiple electronic search warrants. You said you conducted 60 interviews as part of this investigation . Correct. That is a lot for any investigation, right . I wouldnt say that. I dont know how many and they stations investigations i did. I want to focus on this that we went through. In your testimony, mr. Shapley, your opening statement, you said the text mass message shows hunter biden discussing business with his father and can you show me where in the text message it says anything about discussing business with joe biden . I can take time to review it if you would like me to. I dont have the time and i will tell you the only thing it says about it is that hunter biden was sitting with his father and it doesnt say anything about discussing any business. And, you also said in your testimony, and we have talked about this a bunch, that the agents were prohibited from pursuing leads related to joe biden and the big guy. But the agents did that anyway, right . Interviewing rob walker . They interviewed rob walker. They asked him about that . They didnt use the word big guy but they asked about it in reference to that text. Do you recall that rob walker actually said in response to that that he wasnt aware that joe biden was ever a part of anything that he and hunter were doing . That is what the witness said, yes. You then describe a lunch that we talked about earlier were joe biden came to say hello at the Four Seasons Hotel to a lunch she was having with see efc executives . Correct. What you didnt talk about is what rob walker said the origination of that lunch was. You testified that he said that hunter told his dad according to rob walker, i may be starting to start a company or try to do something with these guys. Let me ask you something. That doesnt sound much like joe biden was involved in whatever hunter biden was doing with the see efc if hunter biden is telling him that he is trying to do business with him, does it . No. But it does show he told his father he was trying to do business. That is true. Hunter biden tries to do business. That is correct. You not only have no direct evidence connecting joe biden to Hunter Bidens business deal but you actually had prove he wasnt involved and that is the proof you had . At the end of the day, this is a fiveyear criminal investigation with tens of thousands of documents and maybe hundreds of thousands and usually search warrants aggressive techniques and you wrote a report recommending felony charges and went to doj tax and they wrote a 99 page memo or approval memo and neither of you saw that . Correct. That is correct. What was the recommendation . Approval . Discretion or decline . I have to stick to the confines you testified it was discretion. It wasnt an approval but to the discretion of the u. S. Attorneys office chad that doj tax memo and had information from the defense lawyers that they spoke with. And they are the ones that have to prove this case in court. I will tell you as a federal prosecutor for 10 years. And i worked with many of your colleagues who do great work and i am sure you do great work as well. I never met an agent who didnt want to charge every possible case. What i do notice today and five hours of testimony is that neither one of you has ever mentioned a portion of the case that may not be so strong or maybe suspect or may have a defense. That is because that is what the prosecutor has to think about before charging the case. That is not what the special agent report does. The gentlemans time is expired and he went a minute over. If you could turn to page 30 of your transcript and i want to say to mr. Shapley and mr. Ziegler, we sure appreciate your coming forward. We have heard of alleged so called whistleblowers in the past that couldnt reveal themselves which led to an improper impeachment of a president that was unjustified and unsubstantiated. I really do credit you and i think this is probably been very difficult and a hard choice to make. I think it was the right one and i do commend you. Page 30 of your transcript, mr. Shapley, the second paragraph, starting with every single day. Every single day was a battle to do our jobs and i do understand that in congress but you are following the letter of the law and taking information and you are doing this and this and you get that and why is your day that is a chilling line and what you mean when you said that . Every time we try to communicate investigative steps it was slow walker pushed off that we needed doj Public Integrity approval and it was used as a crutch and they really used it to stall the investigation. Ultimately, these, which some people seem to be overlooking is that these prosecutors agreed with these charges. You finally reached your redline and said previously answering another question that you are seeking justice and i believe you were. I dont inc. You were picking winners or losers but seeking to see who was following the rules and finally you reached the redline october 7 of 2022 at the meeting with the us attorney weiss. Is that a reasonable characterization . Correct. What you mean when you say redline. So the investigation starting in the summer of 2020 and my case agents were coming to me with concerns because we were worried about the discovery process with agents turning over documents at the end of the investigation and we wanted to protect that. I documented them on a recurring basis, issues we were having and it was after discussions with my agents i also saw these things firsthand. So we did get to the point that is a heavy burden and i have a deep respect for the department of justice and the us attorneys that ive worked with in the past and i to ultimately conclude they were doing the wrong thing was such a high burden. You concluded that. Your redline i think you said and i dont want to mischaracterize was a little later on december 14 of 2020 when wolf tips off the biden counsel on your plan to search the storage unit. Is that right . Absolutely. That storage unit, the method we were planning to do was the least intrusive and it was a storage unit and we wanted we needed to get those records. Again, you are seeking the truth . It will take you wherever it goes and make decisions on what you learned . What was your agencys leadership response when you tried to alert officials outside of her chain of command, mr. Shapley . Most recently, when mr. Ziegler emailed the commissioner, they basically threatened and intimidated mr. Ziegler that he violated some type of law. Threatened and intimidated . That the requirement didnt make the legal requirement. You are trying to seek justice and the truth and you are getting an obstruction in front of you and they are obstructing you from doing it . Arent they . My complaint for irs criminal investigation and Senior Leadership is not necessarily to block this investigation and i do believe that we raised things on a continual basis and they stuck their head in the sand and took no action. But in terms of the retaliation is when they first reared their head. There is no doubt about it that after protective disclosures were made, that they took Personnel Practices against me. Have either of you been threatened before in an investigation . I have not. I have come to learn that this grand jury may have happened before to other people inside the irs. Mr. Shapley . No. Not from my own agency. So when my friends on the other side of the aisle said treasury hasnt retaliated against you, it isnt true . There is a law that five usc 23 03b 13 placed unlawfully you and your fellow supervisors under a gag order and my time is expired, but what we are talking about here is obstruction of justice and you are seeking justice and you are obstructed and it is against the law and i yield the balance. The gentleman yields back in the chair recognizes florida. Gentlemen, thank you for appearing today and thank you for being a Public Servant and there should be no retaliation against you as whistleblowers and unlike my colleagues that said nothing and supported President Trump when he retaliated and fired then men and escorted him from the building for appearing in an investigation, that shouldnt happen to you but of course they said nothing when it happened to other people and we heard a lot about the bidens and the biden family and Biden Associates. Right . That is plural and what is the mean but not joe biden. We didnt hear a lot about him because he didnt do anything so nothing to do with him. Our colleagues talked about Foreign Countries and foreign entities trying to make it all scary for the American People and of course President Trump got 5. 4 million from the chinese because they were leasing space in trump tower and he goes out and air kisses the president of china and totally perfect and Jared Kushner gets money from the saudis even though he oversaw mideast peace and kosher. Ivanka trump is doing business with the chinese while she is working in the white house and totally beautiful. Right . Why do i bring that up . They want to say you have credibility and the problem is they have none. They have no credibility. Because you are here at their behest, their lack of credibility questions your credibility and not because of you personally but because of what they have done over the last several years. The chairman does say you are credible. Do you want to know actually what they feel about you . People like you who work in government . I have pages. It goes on for years. I will read a few adjectives. Trump has called people like you, socalled whistleblowers, fake whistleblowers and partisan people, political hack jobs, scams, frauds, traders, spies, losers, clients clowns, thugs, puppets, the swamp and my favorite the deep state. By the way you members of the deep state, are you members of that and its a rhetorical question. Did you stop paying your deep state dues or not attend the latest deep state meeting and is that why youre not in that . I cant tell when they want people like yourself to be in the deep state or not depending on what the deep state is staying saying. Again it undermines their credibility and it undermines government and the Americans Trust in government and our institutions. Throughout all of this for four years of it, they said nothing. And now, in an effort to own hunter biden, okay, they are assembling nude photographs of him and having some intern have to sit in a room and blow up these photographs and put it on a postit board and figure out which ones are beyond the pale. Mr. Shapley, you said that the doj was slowing down the investigation, but some of that happened when President Trump was president. I did find it strange when my colleague tried ask both of you these questions about when youre perceived slowness of this happened, you all struggled for a period of time to admit that it started under President Trump and it was President Trump directing that doj to slow down the investigation . He was not. Just like President Biden is it now. If there is any perceived issues with doj, it is with doj and not the president. Mr. Ziegler, you said nobody is above the law and do you think president s son in law Jared Kushner who worked in the white house couldnt get security clearance until the president made it happen and put in charge of mideast peace and with no investment experience got 2 billion from the saudis and you made a lot of noise about 17 million but what about 2 billion . Do you think as a person it should be looked at . It sounds strange. Thank you for that question, given the statute i am limited to my testimony. I understand. But think about it, 2 billion from a foreign country that he was put in charge of, their policy, while he worked in the white house and they got no questions about that and that is totally great and totally wonderful. Right . You know, joe biden has been in washington for almost 50 years and we didnt hear about hunter until a few years ago. Why . Because it is a pay no attention to the man behind the curtain like the wizard of oz. Donald trump is in so much trouble and they cant save him, but what they can do is they can spend taxpayer money, and all the time while they control these hearings to convince the American People that somehow joe biden has done something wrong, but there is no evidence. None, zero, zip. They couldnt even bring up their own impeachment and they had to bury it in committee and on immigration and not on this topic. There are members of this committee that filed articles of impeachment and didnt bring up for a vote and they buried it in committee and again not on this topic because there is no evidence on joe biden. Thank you i yield back. We recognize colorado. Thank you for being here and i appreciate you. Now, if you could each quickly, maybe 20 seconds are less summarize what did each of you find when you criminally investigated hunter and joe biden, particularly as it relates to china . Specifically related to china, there is the cefc and hudson west three and state energy hk and i believe those are the three entities in my transcript. I would echo the same thing thats in the transcript. So there is a chinese billionaire and he is tied to a ccp Intelligence Gathering Agency and his company is cf cc cefc and what is the connection between that . I will have to stick to the confines of my testimony, but what i can tell you is there may be some documents that are responsive to that and i can turn this over to the house ways and Means Committee. I do welcome those. They would vote to get those released. We would love to get those. I see that hunter biden received more than 8 million in foreign payments including 100,000 made from cefc directly and 664,000 from state energy hk as you mentioned and another Chinese Company and a 325,000 capital contribution made into bow high harvest on hunters behalf with an investment fund. Were you shocked to find that the then Vice President s son received all of these payments and protect elderly the ones from the chinese entities . As i tried to state earlier, in this position you have to be nonpartisan and it isnt a matter of shock. It is not the political position or the party but just the Vice President s son. I am not accusing you of political bias. It is just follow the evidence and see where the transactions are coming from and interview with mrs. And try to figure out what the purpose of those transfers of money were for. Mr. Shapley, in march 2017, Robinson Walker received a 3 million wire from a Chinese Company , state Energy Hk Limited which took place two months after joe biden left office as Vice President. I believe it was in your testimony that you said it seemed this would be getting into place or in a testimony today that it was being assembled before he left office and then shortly after, it came to fruition. Can you quickly discuss the Robinson Walker connection to the biden family . I have to refer to mr. Ziegler. I dont think i talked about 3 million. Any of that information related to the 3 million, we can turn over to the house ways and Means Committee and they can vote to release that to you. I see that hunter biden and a cefc associate established hansson hudson west 3 llc and each owned 50 of the company between august 2017 and october 28 teen, and they sent over 4 million to hunter biden and over 75,000 to james biden, Hunter Bidens uncle. Can you discuss these . My colleagues on the other side of the aisle are wondering what the apostrophe is when we talk about the bidens and it seems like there are more right here receiving money. In answer to his question regarding President Biden and in answer to this question, any documents that we believe we may have in our possession, we can turn over to the house ways and Means Committee and both vote to release it to you guys. I request that you release that to them. We also have the situation with doing business with cefc and i guess that makes you a chinese spy so i guess hunter biden is a chinese spy according to their allegations, do you have any information that you can turn over to the house ways and Means Committee . Any information i have with the direction of my attorney we can turn over to the house ways and Means Committee. Thank you and i appreciate your being here and bravery and courage for standing up and i know we saw a lot of evidence today about millions of dollars being shuffled through these Shell Companies and we have seen delayed warrants to impact a 2020 election and prosecutors instructed not to involve the big guy because of the optics but the optics are clear. Hunter biden sold access to his father with and influence peddling scheme which, in my opinion compromises the current president of the United States and the biden family has never sold anything in their life their influence in washington dc and every business they have is monetizing their grifter of the American People. Thank you for making it very clear today. I yield. The gentlelady yield and we will recognize michigan. Thank you for being here and i know it has been a long day. We do appreciate you and the American People appreciate you to get some truth and honesty back in the american Justice System and i think that is great. We have heard a lot of rhetoric today. I want to talk about as much as we can just the facts and stick to the facts. In august 2020, mr. Shapley, your team obtained a Whatsapp Message from hunter biden to a Chinese Businessman. I want to read a few lines from that message. I am sure you remember but i will refresh. I quote. Please have the director call me not james or tony or gym jim and have him call me tonight. I am sitting here with my father and we want to understand why the commitment made hasnt been fulfilled and if i get a call or text from anyone involved in this other than you, i will make certain that between the man sitting next to me and every person he knows and my ability to forever hold a grudge that you will regret not following my direction. And i am sitting here waiting for the call with my father, and that is a fact. I did make it up and its not my opinion and it isnt rhetoric. This is a message from Hunter Bidens whatsapp , correct . It is a from a search warrant from an apple i cloud backup. From whos phone . Hunter biden. It was a device. Thank you. But it was linked to hunter biden . Yes. Where the bidens contemplating a deal with cefc in the july 2017 timeframe . I would have to stick to what was in my transcript and i dont know if i describe that. I think that is a portion of the message. However i do believe there is a full exchange that if it is relevant we can turn it over to the house ways and Means Committee and they can decide the vote to release that to you. Appreciated. I wanted to given my limited time to set the stage. One person has come forward, tony bob welinski and alleged the bidens were contemplating at deal even earlier than 2017 with cefc. Is he the tony referenced in the whatsapp . And i am trying to connect the dots. I think we need to stick to the transcript and i think my testimony i referenced final hawk deal and we know that deal never went through which relates to cefc in china. The tony he is referencing, do you believe that to be toady tony bob welinski . I can provide any information i have for the house ways and Means Committee. The reference to james, is there a reference to james and is that another Biden Associate . We may have to get that one as well. Again, i think it is critical that we stick to the facts and not my opinion so i do appreciate the fact you are only speaking with fact and not on a partisan basis. Absolutely. It would help if you could get those. In another message, the Chinese Business and responded, i will call you on whatsapp and hunter writes back , oh, my friend, i am sitting here waiting for the call with my father. Again, my concern is the ability to tell the truth and the coverup is always worse than the crime and how many times did we hear joe biden say not involved. Not involved and i have no idea yet his son says he is sitting right there while he is making these alleged influence peddling. So, mr. Shapley, what are these messages indicate to you . Can you comment on that . Yes. They indicate we needed to take additional investigative steps to find out what the facts and circumstances were of this message. And it was not supported. Can you explain to us, what you mean it wasnt supported . As a normal part of attacks investigation, you want to understand why individuals are earning money and if somebody is paid a significant amount of money, in order for that to be income and not a gift or loan, you have to understand the substance as to why that person is paying them and that is why you need understand the four corners of that transaction. That is Standard Operating Procedure usually held for normal members of society. And that is Standard Operating Procedure. But youre telling me you couldnt pursue that, correct . I am out of time. Thank you again. The chair recognizes tennessee. Thank you and thank you all for being here. I am not when i was a younger man, the country wasnt going to well and one night it culminated into something and i remember my daddy praying same, lord, please dont let us lose our country. That is the prayer i will be making tonight after hearing this testimony because it sickens me and i do know you are a man of faith and i guess after tonight maybe you are or arent and i am not too sure what you are. But i will be remembering you all in my prayers. And i do appreciate your incredible courage. It takes a lot of guts to come out here and your families and spouses through this garbage. It isnt right. Thank you all. It is also come to my attention that today after this hearing was already underway, apparently the research is circulating from the legal team suggestions that you leaked investigative information to somebody who release that information online. Is there a statement you would like to make about whether you leaked any investigative information to somebody to reveal on the internet . And i am sure Hunter Bidens legal team is obviously watching right now and easter eggs are trying to smear you through the press and that is disgusting, and i appreciate hearing a direct answer from you, brother. There are two parts. There was that release of that bank report and my name was listed. My name was out in the public as one of the irs agents working this case and that was maybe a few years ago. That did come out. On top of that, me and my husband were in a report that is out on social media on twitter by a person with the same last name that i have a home i have never met or never turned over information to and we just happened to have the same last name. And i was, for my sexuality and Sexual Orientation and my husband was put out there like information related to me. It was in an effort to discredit me that i am this person working for the liberal side and i must be a plant. It was awful the things they were saying about me. I can tell you that i have never turned over any information regarding this case and anyone related to that marco polo report or anybody with the same last name as me. Thank you and i appreciate that and i am sorry that you and your husband had a go through all of that misery. Also, how much do you think Hunter Bidens as soon as associates received from the board of burisma . I will need to refer to my transcript. How about if i help you out. 666,000 does that sound about right . Is that a monthly transfer . I am not sure. And if it is a monthly transfer i am in the wrong line of work. They paid everyone involved 6. 5 million. Okay. Okay. When did hunter leave the burisma board . Can you hold on a second . Sure. It is not in the confines of my transcript so that would be something i would have to turn over to the house ways and Means Committee. With the money you think received from burisma sent directly to hunter biden in 2014 and 2015 . It wasnt , it was sent to Rosemont Seneca bohai. Okay. Why would they do that and why would they send it to his Business Partner devin archer was it and all that . I can talk about my normal experience hold on one second. I can provide this in additional testimony to the committee to explain that. I would like to get that. Also, mr. Ziegler, Rosemont Seneca bohai , they didnt do anything or produce anything and skaneateles to do anything and hudson west three didnt do anything but are all of these affiliated companies with hunter biden . I believe i referenced that i knew of those but i didnt reference how. Okay. I guess i should direct that at mr. Shapley. My point is you are familiar with these companies but have you been able to identify what the bidens did here in the business of selling what they did with these companies . Either one of you all . Again, i will have to the response to that and the reason why some of these payments were received, we can turn over as part of an additional testimony. My point is i didnt sell tough stakes or crappy ties and they sold influence in my opinion and i am out of time and i apologize i would like to close and say my buddy texted me during all this and said i hope you get to the bottom of this and i hope you do something about it. That would be my wish for this committee. Thank you guys so much. That is the goal. Thank you and the chair recognizes mr. Fry for five minutes. Thank you. Were you able to pursue this investigation in areas that may locate the president s involvement in his familys businesses . We were hindered from following what are you talking about, china, i have not had the, the only guy you made money from china is this guy donald trump. He is the only one, nobody has made any money from china. Was the president when the truth when he said his son, hunter biden had not made any money from china . I dont know what the president was thinking but i can tell you based on what i testified in my transcript that he did earn money from china. In march of 2023, just a couple months ago, the committee showed through bank records that hunter biden, the president s son, james biden, howie biden all received money originating from china funneled through Robinson Walker llc, a Company Owned by rob walker, a wellknown Biden Associate. The president said that is not true. Is it true that the president s family received money originating from china, which was funneled through the Robinson Walker account . That is correct. As it pertains to the hunter biden investigation,for commuters that in on a meeting coming testified to that, later this year, on june 7th, mr. White publicly stated in a letter to the Judiciary Committee the following, as the attorney general has stated, i have been granted ultimate authority over this matter, including responsibility for deciding where, when, and whether to file charges that statement is dramatically inconsistent with your recollection of anything that happened in october of 2022, is that correct . Yes. Corroborated documentation of that meeting clearly shows that is not accurate. How was that not accurate, from the recollection of that meeting . Becomes during that meeting, United States attorney white says he was a deciding person, said it right out and he further went in and the department of Justice Tax Division had to approve any charges first, to which as of march 16th, 2023, we know that they had not approved anything yet. He further goes and says dcu would as attorney has declined to allow charges to be brought there and let he requested special counsel at the ready around that time and was denied and told to follow the process. That process it would lead him to another President Biden appointed u. S. Attorney in the Central District of california and heedless at that meeting on october 7th, 2022 that if california declined it, he would have to request special authority again. Right. During that meeting and subsequent letters mr. Weiss produced two senator graham and the Judiciary Committee, his is to corroborate some of the facts from that meeting that maybe he didnt have that authority, right . Yes, the second letter on june 30th clearly shows that he is saying he has full authority, has ultimate authority. He immediately goes in and says that my authority is geographically limited. I dont understand how you can conclude any way from that statement in the june 30th letter that he has full authority. It is simply not accurate. Correct. That was something that you saw early on all you saw as a potential problem. Mr. Weiss could not gain special Counsel Authority, what options were made in bringing charges against hunter biden in california or in the district of columbia . At what happened the special attorney authority that i have seen recently referenced. But, i mean, essentially when d. C. Said no, and we know that d. C. Said no, we were having conversations with our fbi counterparts of how do we bring in a special counsel into the situation . I think that once we knew that there was going to be potential problems with going to President Biden appointees with moving this case forward, we were actively trying to figure out how as agents do we get to that to happen. Still to this day, there is not a special counsel assigned to this investigation. The approach was, and i have to go quickly here, the approach was to go to d. C. With matthew graves, where he was not able to bring charges under a biden appointee. He went to the Central District of california, mr. Estrada was not able to bring charges. To both of you, in conclusion, in relation to the u. S. Attorneys ability to obtain that special Counsel Authority and bring these cases in either california or d. C. , do you agree with attorney general garlands testimony that, the United States attorney weiss has been advised he has a full authority to bring cases in other districts if he needs to do that. I believe that is accurate. The key word is he has. I dont think that is accurate. I think that is refuted in the later letter by u. S. Attorney david weiss. Thank you both for being here and for your bravery in testifying today. I know it has not been easy on you or your family but the American People and this committee appreciate the work that you do, that you continue to do and the truth you are shedding light on. With that, mr. Chairman, i yelled back. Chair recognizes mr. Edwards from North Carolina for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chair. Mr. Ziegler did you ever ask for access to Hunter Bidens laptop in your investigation . I do recall asking for access, yes. Or you credit that access . I believe that is in the confines of my transcript. I do know, so, when we are talking about did you look at the laptop . So, i can jump in there. I documented a meeting where we had this discussion and it was included in my house ways and Means Committee transcript. Special agent ziegler asked multiple times that he had certain pieces of certain downloads from the devices but he did not have access to all of them. That is when leslie wolf said that is because prosecutors decided not to give it to you all. So you effectively were denied access. Mr. Shapley, in your interview with the ways and Means Committee, he stated the following regarding efforts to obtain a search warrant for the time, former vice President Biden guesthouse. We talked about the storage unit earlier. Lets talk about the guest house now with hunter biden had been staying and assistant u. S. Attorney leslie wolf assessment of the situation regarding the likelihood of such a warrant being approved. There was more than enough probable cause for the physical search warrant there but the question once the juice was worth the squeeze. She continued, the optics were a driving factor in the decision on whether to execute a search warrant. She said, a lot of evidence and investigation would be found in the guest house former vice President Biden. But said, there is no way we will get it approved. I open this question to both of you. In the course of your distinguished careers in the irs, has a doj official ever attempted to argue against the execution of a search warrant while acknowledging that such a warrant being carried out would likely yield positive evidentiary results for the investigation . Mr. Shapley. My response would be the argument would be required. It would be a discussion with the investigators working with the prosecutors. If you werent on the same page, you would simply would move on. With the circumstances of probable cause being achieved and no evidence was there, i dont know how she could have she could have not us to execute the search warrant. Goes further. Even to the storage unit. When you talk about access to something and you are relying on them to turn the records over to you versus you having access to those records. They are not being potentially destroyed. I mean, there is a multitude of reasons why you would want to execute a search warrant. Mr. Chair, i would like to share some thoughts. This hearing is much like arguing with my wife. We start out on a topic and go on all kinds of different directions. It seems like that is what im hearing, at least from the other side today. I have heard over and over that President Biden has not been implicated or proven for any wrongdoing here. I can only do that, for now. But, i know that it is the intent of this Oversight Committee to continue to look at the evidence that we have here. The issue at hand, however, is that it is joe bidens son that is the target of this and seems to have had preferential treatment on a number of levels. The investigators were denied access to the laptop, the biden family was tipped off with the warrant on the storage unit, and the investigators were denied access to the guesthouse, even knowing or suspecting that there was evidence in that. And, that is what concerns the American People. That is the real twotiered Justice System that we see here. It is not that joe biden has been proven to do anything longer yet, it is that joe bidens son has received preferential treatment through the department of justice. I think that is a shame and i appreciate these gentlemen being here to share their brave story with the American People. I yield back. Chair recognizes mr. Langworthy from new york. Ive been to his place. New york. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you to these two very brave whistleblowers for what has been a very grueling hearing today. I am very grateful for openly testifying in front of everyone. This must be challenging, despite you provide an accurate, credible testimony. That goes to my point. I think it is important to sum up a few things. I just want to ask a series of questions to you, mr. Shapley and mr. Ziegler. It is true you provided testimony to the ways and Means Committee, correct . How did each of your interviews last . Around seven hours. A little more than six, seven hours. Pointed those interviews occur . Mine was late may. June 1st. Of this year. Word democratic staff present during your interviews and did they question you . Yes, they did. Democratic staff was present and the chairman smith was present at my testimony. Did you get your testimony knowing you could be criminally prosecuted if you lied to congress. Is cited. Yes i did. How long has your testimony been public for the American People to read . For the last 3 weeks, probably. Around three weeks. You have been questioned by both republican and democratic members today, correct . That is correct. That is correct. Given all you told us, you gave over 15 combined hours of testimony to ways and Means Committee, i was a public testimony today. These facts up in public now for weeks. And yet not one Single Person has been able to contradict a single fact about your testimony. That is incredible. It is that impressive. It speaks to her credibility, your attention to detail as investigators, and as whistleblowers. The attacks you here today because of your testimony, they are democratic talking points meant to protect the bidens, just like the doj and the irs. Your testimony speaks for itself. It is powerful and i am so glad you are willing to volunteer they come in today. That is why, mr. Chairman, i am so pleased you held this hearing today and show yet on the sample of why this committee must continue this investigation into these matters. I am proud to be yield back. Latent yield. Can i Say Something real quick regarding what he just said . One of the topics that was brought up over here guarding the 99 page memo and that there was discretion given in there, from what i understand this question there is also language that i have seen included in doj tax memos that references the need to charge the felony, you have to charge of the felony, essentially. I would ask congress when mr. Weiss comes to testify hear what did that, at that point in time, what did that memo say . In august, when he got it from his team, what did that memo say . Did it approved felony and misdemeanor charges . What happened to that after . That, i think, is crucial for you guys to understand. Mr. Shapley, you have anything else you would like to add question the department of Justice Tax Division has a policy called major account policy. That basically mirrors what mr. Ziegler is saying. To teach it when they come to speak to agents and provide training to agents. The major account policy is so that they have to charge a felony. They cant just plead away the felony just to get out potential trial. They cant just rely on charging a misdemeanor or giving someone a misdemeanor when there are felony charges on the table. As we have said all along, we have shown all along that these prosecutors agreed with multiple felonies and none of them were charged. I have one more thing to add to that. We were always, i go back to last spring, mr. Weiss is going to do the right thing. He is absolutely going to do the right thing. Lets hold off. We are moving forward. We get to august and we get approval, recommended approval for the felony and misdemeanor charges. How do we end up where we are at today . I just dont know. Gentlemen, do you really yield your last 30 seconds . Glad to. We were told the same thing about mr. Weiss as well. Be sure your disappointment. Mr. Ziegler, you said there were 14 documents related to this matter, related to the investigation . Yes. Or do you provide those documents to the committee . Yes, i can provide this document to the ways and Means Committee. Just like a normal process for obtaining foreign document, Correspondent Bank requests. Connect the request of those corresponding whiners and that is a step that you can take in getting a foreign money transfers. Would also provide the full rob walker transcript . I will consult with my attorney and we will turn it over to the ways and Means Committee. The chair recognizes esther burlison from missouri. Thank you, mr. Chair. Good news, i am the last one. Next to last. I want to reiterate thank you for your bravery, thank you for what you are doing but i think the American People should be kissed, they should be very angry about this. No one gets away with not paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes and having just loan over or been turned into a misdemeanor charge, especially when you have other criminal activity involved. You know it is funny, this hearing, no one denies the fact that he is guilty of this stuff, right . We all know hes guilty. The question is, i think the question to him is to what extent was his father aware . Anyway, it is kind of like schrvdingers cat. Either he was aware of what is going on and he knew what his son was doing and he was involved or he wasnt and or maybe he was completely clueless, absentminded, whatever, unaware of what his family was doing. But, one or the other is the truth. You cant come to any other conclusion other than that. And, the question is the problem is, you were not able to determine or list box and determine if the cat dead or not. Was joe biden 20 involved or not. So mr. Shapley , mr. Ziegler, throughout the investigation, what is to get a step that would have involved joe biden would you have liked to pursue but were not able to . So, i guess in my testimony, i talked about the atmosphere when we are interviewing witnesses and talking about specific areas or specific it picking the campaign that we were prevented, there was rolling eyes at us. It was a very, it was a very harsh environment to be in. You were directly turned as well. So, there were situations to which i was not able to ask certain questions, yes. You werent able to lift the box and find out what is underneath. There were certain, in our investigation, you want to follow the facts. That is a part of our job is you follow the evidence and you work the case. I know that you were tipped off. You were tipped off about the storage unit before they were able to actively search it. What are you will, what, can you say what you were looking for . What evidence . You built up to this point, now you know there is a strong indication there is something there. I believe in mr. Shapleys testimony, he moved his prior office, he being hunter, moved his prior office into that storage unit. This was computers, finals. I dont know specifically what would have been in there. Okay. Besides any tax crimes wifi collections, what other violations were being investigated by any other agencies . Of those arent in the confines of our testimony, what other charges are being investigated. Any offshoots. Were there other agencies working with you that were working on other . Fbi was working this case with us. Okay, so, you cant speak to whether there was a Foreign Agent registration act . I cannot speak to that. What i can tell you is not only do we investigate tax crimes but we also investigate money laundering. So, any instances of money laundering, us as irs agents are allowed to investigate those crimes. If i could add, in my transcript, i do say that there is a fara issue at play. There was a Foreign Agent registration act issue. Is that, has this been pursued . We are not a part of the investigation anymore. I mean that is our whole point of a special counsel. If there are these offshoot infestations, we are going to rely on the same thing to happen. In your investigations, you had, you knew there was foreign Bank Accounts, foreign money whiners. Are you aware if the biden has what if they own foreign Bank Accounts and did you have a the ability to gain access to this . Any records i would have related to that, can turnover to the ways and Means Committee and they could vote to release that. Thank you. I yelled back the remainder of my time. The wall, were you ever given access to the form that alleged joe biden and hunter biden were a part of a bribery scheme with ukraine . The reason i ask that is because that allegation is consistent the way that the oligarch claimed he gave the bidens the bribe is consistent with what we have seen in romania and other countries where they set up all these Shell Companies and they launder the money through the Shell Companies back down to different biden family members. I wondered if you knew about that form before it became public. I can speak to that. In my original transcript, i wouldnt have been able to say that i knew anything about a 1023. I provided a supplement after i saw open Source Information from the former attorney general bill barr that said he saw this document and they sent it to delaware for further investigation and the team, to the best of my knowledge, never saw that document. The team that was in charge of investigating the biden family for tax crimes never received the fbi document that alleged joe biden was involved in a bribery scheme . For the irs investigators on the case, the answer is no. Is that odd . Everybody knew you were investigating the bidens for at least tax evasion. Generally speaking, if there are any types of money coming in and there is a criminal tax investigation ongoing, i dont see how that information could be withheld from the investigators. I can tell you, i can provide this in my testimony but there are things that are contained on that document that could further corroborate other information that we might be having an issue corroborating because it could be regarding a foreign official. If we have information regarding that in a document or a witness, we can further corroborate later evidence. Like i said, if that is something that we have, we can turn that over to the ways and Means Committee. Thank you. Chair recognized ms. Luna from florida. Did the fbi first learned of the delaware computer processing a laptop that allegedly belong to hunter biden at contained evidence of potential claims in october of 2019 question did the fbi first learned of it . I dont know if i can speak about who first learned of it. The answer would be yes. Thank you. And, its addicted to the fbi verified the laptops authenticity in november of 2019 by matching the device number against Hunter Bidens icloud account . Yes, i believe that is in my transcript and that is accurate. Correct, transcript 12. The fbi analyzed at the computer, there was a report of the fbis current Team Analysis had taken place . Can you point to a page in my transcript. Page 12. Transcript 12. Can you repeat the question, please . Isnt it true the fbi verified the laptop authenticity in november of 2019 by matching the device number against Hunter Bidens icloud account . That is correct. Performed an fbi cart Team Analysis . Yes mr. Ziegler, did you see this report . I dont think that i talked about that in my transcript. Correct, im assuming that was frustrating being you werent conducting an investigation. I can speak to this again because i did contemporaneously document a meaning about the laptop and special agent ziegler confirmed that he pointed out individual pieces of data that he was provided and he asked why he hadnt seen other pieces of data and that is when assistant United States attorney wolf told him prosecutors were withholding information from the investigators be what is important with withholding, they never said what they were withholding. I think that is important. From my understanding, the u. S. Attorney said you havent seen it because, for a variety of reasons, they kept it on the agent . The kept this information from you, it is important to know, correct . That is correct. Isnt it relative relevant evidence that this type of evidence would help you to conduct your investigation . In an everyday normal investigation, you would want to know, to are the investigators. We are the ones that are supposed to process the information and provide the relevant information to the prosecutors. We should know absolutely everything that we are looking at because we might testify to it one day. It is safe to say it is not a normal practice to withhold evidence from agents reviewing the case . It is not a normal practice to withhold and not tell us what you are withholding from us. Did you know who made the decision to withhold information from the agents . That i do not know. It is not in my transcript. Okay. Mr. Shapley, when your team were learning about the existence of this information and you working tonight information at the same time, this is october, 2020, correct . Yes. At that same time, did you remember Hunter Bidens laptop being discussed or suppressed by the media . I generally remember the discussion of the laptop. I think everybody heard about the laptop. I dont know if i knew about the media suppressing it. It is important to note that the fbi learned about the laptop in 2019. Is 2019, 2022. The fbi authentic it at the laptop in november of 2019, then takes possession of the laptop, thats analysis, these analyses and information are not provided to you. The irs agents conducting the case. In my view, the folks running the nuts and bolts of the tax fraud case. They are learning about all this information and being denied access to it. Meanwhile, the media is actively working to suppress that and at the same time 51 National Security officials signed onto a letter saying the fbi has authenticated saying it is russian disinformation. This is my view. Joe bidens son, what is important to note many of my colleagues try to make this about race and saying there is a twotiered Justice System for black and brown people. Yet we are investigating, according to their terms, a man of White Privilege who is being aided and abetted by this administration and being criminally covered for by the department of justice and yet somehow that is not supposed to be a topic of discussion. I have 41 seconds left, would you like to say anything for the record the American People so they can know what is really happening in this country . I have something. There are two things. I believe that leslie wolf and u. S. Attorney david weiss its a phenomenal things about my work and i know they have said that. They have said we did a great job in this investigation. This isnt, we are not disgruntled, we are not out here to get people, we are careful accountability and that we learn from this. That is the most important part of why we are here. You are doing great. I know that you are not conservative, i know you are not a republican. I will say this, thank you for bringing faith back to some part of the irs so that people understand because your last name is biden does not mean you are held above the law. Chairman, yield my time. The gentle lady on the back and that concludes our questions. Again, i want to thank you all for being here. Im going to yield to the much improved Ranking Member from new york for closing statement. I will take the goldstar, thank you, chairman. I would like to thank our witnesses today. We acknowledge fully this is not easy and that your respect, rather, your surface, your Public Service here is respected and acknowledged and valued. Thank you, thank you for your testimony. I think it is important for us to summarize much of what we heard and saw today. And, overall but this matter is about. U. S. Attorney handpicked by attorney general bart has, for four years investigated together with a dozen agents and at least four prosecutors from his office and the tax division of the department of justice the son of President Biden. Hunter biden has been charged with a felony and misdemeanor is, to misdemeanors and he is pleading guilty to several climes and submitting to sentencing by an appointed judge, a trumpet appointed judge. However, we are also seeing today an effort to find some issue with this prosecution, the existing prosecution. This is a person who has attempted to crimes. And, finding evidence of political interference, a very serious charge. So, much of what we saw today honed in on a conversation, the testimony honed in on a conversation that one of todays witnesses was involved in in which mr. Shapley heard mr. Weiss to say he was denied special counsel status. That account has been contradicted by the u. S. Attorney david weiss, who has reiterated several times that he has full authority to bring any charges in any district and has received assurances from the department of justice that if he needed special attorney status, not special counsel but rather special attorney status to bring discharges, it would be granted. So, we are left here with two possible options for this story, that either mr. Weiss, was appointed by president donald j trump, entrusted by attorney general bart, also serving under trump, was lying to protect the Biden Administration. Or, he respectfully disagreed with the charges that todays two witnesses wanted to bring as professionals, in their professional opinion. This disagreement over charges is not uncommon. The irs criminal tax counsel attorneys have disagreed and charging decisions as we heard here today 90 of the time. In this particular case, reviewing attorneys at irs and the tax division raised issues with the proposed charges. And witnesses described how mr. Weiss expressed some concerns about the charges. In fact , in some of the testimony, we saw mr. Shapley recognize with regard to at least one of the charges, which he himself recommended he could, im quoting from testimony, see some issues with that that would preclude it from being charged. Now, i understand the two witnesses who testified here today are disappointed after five years of investigation. I believe you all are honorable, serving professionals through the. And that mr. Weiss disagreed with the analysis of facts. There was absolutely frustration to not have a seat at the table, that mr. Weiss made his decision about how to charge in this case and he did charge. That was a decision that he, as the u. S. Attorney in charge of the case, was empowered to make. The question, though, i believe that is very important to address, is why we are holding these hearings today despite what we have seen as deliberate lobbying for this hearing by a political candidate, donald j trump. What we also saw today was the revival of certain conspiracy theories around ukraine first promoted by Rudy Giuliani during trumps first impeachment in 2019 and his reelection campaign. We did not bring that up. That was first brought up by the republican side that required addressing here today. Chairman comber started this hearing by asking the witnesses about burisma and other members of the committee raised the specter of these debunked conspiracy theories. It has been a long time and time again, including by trumps own department of justice. That being said, this is the problem with bringing these conspiracy theories into this committee. They beget more. It does not stop. Today, weve got a new conspiracy theory, one that requires us to believe that david weiss, a trumpet appointed u. S. Attorney , trusted by trump appointed attorney general bill barr, has somehow been complicit in abetting and concealing a deep state conspiracy to protect hunter biden on behalf of the Biden Administration when they were selected by donald trump. This is a theory which has apparently been proven unsuccessful given that hunter biden is now criminally charged and facing sentencing by a trumpet appointed judge. Today also marked a new low when pornographic images were prorated in this hearing room. Chairman comer, last october, you told Time Magazine you are not interested in the sordid details of Hunter Bidens life. He recorded as saying, that is counter to a credible investigation. I agree. Sadly, that is a reflection of how low some individuals here have been willing to go in their efforts to attack the president and his family. Frankly, i dont care who you are in this country, no one deserves that. It is abuse. It is abusive. If republicans truly want to get to the facts here, and they want to understand why mr. Weiss decided to charge hunter biden the way he did, lets hear from mr. Weiss. Until then we must move on from these theories and focus on the issues that matter to the American People, like ending the scourge of gun violence that is plaguing our country, confronting and combating the climate crisis, and standing up for constitutional rights. And, yes, going after the enormous amount of inequity and injustice in our tax system. With that, i yield back to the attribute the gentle lady yields back. Before i close, i want to ask for consent to enter into the record three letters from myself, judiciary chair jordan and ways and Means Committee chair smith to the director of secret Service Director of the irs and the attorney general, requesting more information pertaining to our investigation. Without objection, so ordered. As well as entering into the record the two bank memorandums we have already submitted to our friends in the media that we are trying to teach Financial Literacy to, id like to enter those two memorandums into the record. Again, i want to thank you all so much for what youve done today. I cant imagine what youve been through. I apologize for what you have been through. This is what this committee is all about. The mission for the house Oversight Committee is to identify, root out waste, fraud, abuse, and mismanagement in the federal government. To do that, we depend on whistleblowers. Whistleblowers coming forward and telling their story and that is what you all have done and to think that there are people on the committee who have tried to question your credibility is a pretty low mark for the history of the house Oversight Committee. Again, thank you. What we have learned today, lets go back six months, when this investigation started, when we became the majority. The laptop, according to many of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle and many of our friends in the media, was russian disinformation. But we know now is the laptop contains many of these financial records, the financial documents, the communications between both the president as well as other members of his family with many of these associates, with many of these foreign nationals. So, there is a clear path of evidence. I say that investigating the biden family influence peddling is like investigating a bleeding bear through a snowstorm. There is so much evidence laying around. We have confirmed today what we have been saying in this committee for several months, that the bidens took in over 10 million, 17. 3 million, to be exact, from adversaries. We have no earthly idea of what they did to receive that money. I think that is concerning to every american. We have evidence that hunter biden spoke to his father about his business and that hunter used his fathers name to shakedown the Chinese Communist party. We saw that in the Whatsapp Message. We saw that in other emails and correspondence from the laptop. We learned, unfortunately, these brave incredible whistle blowers have been retaliated against at the irs and intimidated by the biden shady legal team and their laptops and the press. For that, i apologize and i hope that that does not deter other brave, incredible whistleblowers from coming forward. All the roads lead to joe biden, the guy. The guy who was set to go in business with the Chinese Communist party linked entity that wired money to the biden family as well as was mentioned by my colleagues on the other side of the aisle. Joe biden was set to Share Office Space with this Chinese Communist party backed entity. That is a concern. That should be a concern to every american. Whether you are republican or democrat, whether you are rural or urban one thing we can agree on is that americans detest public corruption. That is why we have irs, that is why we have an irs criminal division, that is why we have Oversight Committee, that is why we have an ethics committee, that is why we are supposed to have a judicial system in america, that provides equal justice for all. But, we have to Work Together and we have to be honest and we have to respect our checks and balances. What we learned today and, as troubling as anything, is that your investigation that you spent years of your life on that we have spent six months investigating, where you see a pattern of suspicious activity, where money flows from shady Foreign Companies and from shady foreign nationals through Shell Companies that are then laundered. That is according to six different banks in the suspicious activity board, laundered down in a mental payments to the biden family for things that we have no idea what they did to receive the money. As part of that years long investigation, the fbi is sitting on the whole time a document that alleges joe biden and hunter biden took a 5 million bribe from a ukrainian oligarch, where there are bank records that show that the bidens were receiving money from this entity. There was already evidence there to show that. I dont know whether that allegation is true or not. I know the fbi never investigated it. What we know from today, they never communicated with the irs criminal division, that spent years investigating this. So, there are two things that is happening here with the Oversight Committee with respect to the president of the United States. There is the investigation of the Biden Corruption and there is the investigation of the coverup. Again, i want to thank you all for the work that you have done over the years. We appreciate that. The American People appreciate that. The taxpayers appreciate that. We look forward to receiving the Additional Information through the ways and Means Committee, through the proper process as we continue our investigation. With that, and without objection, all members will have five legislative days within which to submit materials and to submit additional written questions to witnesses, which will be forwarded to the witnesses for their response. If there is no further business, without objection, the committee stands adjourned. ] thursday, the House Oversight and Accountability Committee holds its first hearing on an impingement entry into the biden. Once that all have a 10 00 a. M. Eastern on cspan three. Cspan now, our free mobile video app or online at cspan. Org. 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