Transcripts For CSPAN3 Acting 20240703

[background noises] [background noises] is nick any on education and workforce will come to order. I note the quorum is present. That objection the chairs authorized to call recess at any time. Good morning everyone and welcome to todays hearing. Acting secretary at soup, i like to start by saying you have been a hard witness to schedule. The committee began working with the department to secure your in person testimony beginning in march. You would not appear in may, we honored your request to appear in june. Using the day, june 7, that was offered by your staff into which you agreed. More than a commenting to establish a mutual date for this meeting, this hearing. Why is it that late friday evening following the committees public posting of the hearing a week ago, your staff told us you were quote no longer to make june 7 work . What was so important that you are willing to stop the work of a Congressional Committee come up in the schedule 45 members of congress and leave the American Peoples concerns and answer . The hearing is not about you or your pending nomination. It is about assessing the Budget Proposal for the department of labor and the departments performance and adherence to statutory mandates. However, your effort to evade transparency at the 11th hour calls into question your ability to fulfill your duty as a potential secretary of labor. I think secretary sue, you are sitting here today only because i informed you i would issue a subpoena to compel your attendance this previously agreed to hearing. To reconsider trip cancellation. I am glad to consider that lapse in judgment. Im unaware of this committee ever meeting consider such action for Department Annual hearing until now. You cannot run from this responsibility. Congress and the American People have questions about how do you have been running the department. Overall bidens fy 2024 budget calls for 1. 5 billion more in Discretionary Spending for the department of labor than it received last year. Considering your continued unwillingness to provide fully responsive answers to Committee Oversight requests, this budget increase can only be seen as a tacit nod of approval by the president that the department can continued skirting accountability to taxpayers. If enacted the budget would add 2000 federal bureaucrats at the current 17000 cannot sufficiently respond to a single committee request i do not think adding 2000 more will help the departments bureaucratic sclerosis. If anything more bureaucrats is more mounds of paperwork and more red tape under which to bury our oversight requests. Worse, this paperwork and red tape will berate workers and businesses trying to make a living. We should be shrinking, not expanding the size of the federal government. Nevertheless after years of conducting oversight i have found no amount of bureaucratic red tape can obfuscate an objectively poor record. When the record speaks for itself, its inherent contradictions, its complications and its confusions will naturally resolve to clarity. We are here to talk about your departments record, acting secretary su and it does not hold up well. The rap sheet is long. It includes over 100 plan rulemakings and longterm actions from his first day in office invited reverse Many Trump Administration policies that would have promoted hiring and Employment Opportunities and he began pursuing a radical policies that would expand the size and scope of government and payback big labor. The Biden Administration has amassed a troubling record of big labor bias at the expense of American Workers. This culture of union favoritism undermines workers rights. Washington should not be in the business of picking winners and losers in our economy. But that is exactly what the biden ministration is whether it be through attempting to overturn every right to work law in the country, eliminating independent contracting, jeopardizing franchise businesses, over rewarding union bosses with unchecked power by acquiescing to every item on their wish list. Proactive is one example of the administrations of union favoritism. It is championed by the aflcio, big labor groups, socialist Bernie Sanders and now the department of labor. Due to legislative gridlock the department is trying to bypass Congressional Authority by implementing the key features in pieces through regulation. If enacted it would destroy the Life Insurance of workers. Including independent contractors overwhelmingly for further current worker status. Present invited anti woke agendas hurting our economy. Wed watch its impact on their workforce during covid. Acting secretary su when your deputy secretary of the department imposed facial radical illegal Vaccine Mandates on employers. The rule applied 84 million in our workforce. Was it not only wrong on the science of coveted compromise or economic supply chain because of its sweeping dictates. America needs a department of labor aligned with its priorities. Like feeling more than 10 million open jobs in the United States. In every action the Department Takes is one of two things. At best it pushes a misguided union agenda. At worst it subverts or economic stability and prosperity to desales hoods as i review the 2024 budget request, i saw more of the same. And if the administration requested 81 million more for the wage and Hour Division. Whd. Business currently at 310 million federal office responsible for enforcing several workforce laws and the American People would be incensed they knew just how badly it is run. Under your supervision the number of workers receiving back wages is the lowest on record. Down by more than 51 from four years ago. Over those four years the whd has received a 10 bump in funding yet it has achieved half results. The taxpayers are not giving a blank check with the department ineptitude whd does not deserve a dollar more per acting secretary su aiken spent all day going to live by lane this budget there places where we agree like expanding Apprenticeship Programs. But even here i think the department comes up short. Consider making the workforce system more responsive to Employer Needs the Biden Administration is doubled down on burdensome registered apprenticeships while shuttering the industry recognized is hard to think of a worse response or worker shortage. At the park for disagreement Guiding Principles and how we envision the governments role in our workforce. The government itself is on a job creator the administration in the near 100 plan workforce rules not to enforced universal unionization. Whether we should promote job creation by removing the government is much as possible from the equator. Yes, that means subtracting from not adding billions to your budget. With that other torch of the hearing to the day yield to the Ranking Member for an opening statement. Thank you doctor fox. In acting secretary su good morning thank you for being with us. You are here with us now we have had problems getting Previous Administration officials to the committee. But thank you for being with us today. We have an opportunity to discuss the work of President Biden acting secretary su what theyve done for workers, businesses in our economy as well as investments we must continue to make. Democrats and i strongly support mrs. Nomination for secretary of labor because she represents the best of america. She is the daughter of immigrants who owned a small laundromat in a franchise pizza restaurant in first family to attend law school. We support secretaries sues nomination not just because of who she is but for what she has done. Throughout her Service California Labor Commissioner secretary of the California Labor Workforce Development agencies deputy secretary of labor. She has a committed Public Service is dedicated her career to supporting workers and families. Thanks to her and President Bidens leadership responsible action figure by democrats in the last congress Unemployment Rates remain near historic lows for the job market is continuing to grow workers are seeing higher wages. Since taking office invited ministration has created more than 13 million jobs. Thats more jobs created in 28 months than any previous president has created in a single 48 month term. According the white house last time at a long stretch of low unemployment was in the 1960s. Working age americans in the workforce is at its highest level in 16 years. That is the record. Want to remind my colleagues every Democratic Administration since the Kennedy Administration has left the republican successors a better deficit situation than the when they inherited. In every republican Administration Since nixon has left for the democratic successors a worse deficit situation than the one they inherited without exception. President biden is continuing this trend as he creates Record Numbers of jobs. Evidence is clear President Bidens economic agenda is working. This means my republican colleagues have had to resort to baseless claims desperate attacks to oppose sues nomination. Theres an old saying amongst lawyers if you have the law on your side with not be of the facts that your side pound of the of if you have neither the law nor the facts, pound the table. Secretary su is impeccably qualified to serve a secretary of labor shes been an integral to assisting economic recovery so get ready for people to be pounding the table. Republicans may talk about Unemployment Insurance fraud in california, this is not mrs. Doing under her leadership california implemented additional safeguards to help prepare for fraud stockton estimated tens of billions of dollars in fraudulent payments. They may attack independent contractors the Labor Departments proposed rules. Do not be confused by republicans attempts to conflate california state law with federal regulation. Proposed regulation does not implement californias ab five which adopts whats known as the abc tests were infected by demonstration clearly noted it is legally constrained from adopting the abc tests to this line of attack on secretary to suit does not hold of either robin and sok about child labor. Secretary says not among the republican state legislators who are working to roll back labor protections. Unfortunately we can expect republicans on the committee to pound the table this morning since they have no substantive criticism of secretary susie record in the department of labor. In contrast Committee Democrats remain focused on concrete solutions to put money back into workers pockets. Keep workers healthy and safe on the job ensure all workers can enjoy dignified retirement. I hope my republican colleagues will put politics aside and work with us to deliver on these priorities. So thank you secretary see if your leadership joining us today for help remain focused on what is most important, improving the lives of workers and their families. Thank you madam chair in the back. Next thank you mr. Scotts. Pursuant to Committee Role all Member Service to insert written statements into the record may do so by submitting to the Committee Clerk electronically microsoft word format by 5 00 p. M. 14 days after the date of this hearing which is june 21, 2023. Without objection hearing record remain open for 14 days to allow such statements and other extraneous material referenced during the hearing to be submitted for the official hearing record. I now turn to the introduction of our distinguished witness thank you for being here. We have the force of the honorable acting secretary u. S. Department of labor. Thank you chairman fox, Ranking Member scott and members of the committee. Thank you for the invitation to testify today. I am pleased to appear before this committee to highlight the department of labor fiscal year 2024 budget request. An investment in the department of labor is an investment in our workers in the future of our country. Through this budget we can build an economy from the bottom up in the middle out. I recognize Congress Working under statutory budget caps for fy 2024 i look forward to working with you to ensure these priorities are reflected in the final bill. American dream that if you work hard you can make it has always been premised on having a good job. That is why it is just a budget is fundamentally about investments in people. About what a good job does for individual, a family, and a community. No wonder she be injured or killed at work. The budget request will allow the Occupational Safety and Health Administration to improve Workplace Safety and health and be better able to help employers comply with the law. The budget request includes an increase to enable to strengthen its efforts to reduce accidents, injuries, illnesses, fatalities. The department requesting funding for the Training Administration to build on the progress restoring enduring economy following the pandemic. These resources will create pathways into the highquality jobs created by the landmark bar partisan infrastructure law chips in science act and Inflation Reduction Act and other historic investments in our nations infrastructure, Energy Sectors in manufacturing. Investments in evidencebased Workforce Development models will help state and local areas with the Workforce Needs of their communities and the needs of industry across the country. Specifically the budget continue support for the program in line with the president s goal to serve at least 1 million apprentices annually within 10 years. The budget request proposes an employment through Career Training for occupational Readiness Program to support the development and expansion of partnerships between employers, education and workforce evolvement providers and communitybased groups. The department proposes Additional Resources for the veterans employment and Training Service to support a legislative proposal that expands antidiscrimination and reemployment protections to military spouses. Military spouses sacrifice daily to support their families in our country. The administration is proposing we do more to ensure they are able to enjoy the Economic Security they deserve. Protecting workers hard earned pension and Health Benefit is a priority for the department the budget request for the Employee Benefits Security Administration includes increase to continue its important work expanding access to care for Mental Health and Substance Abuse disorders at a time when so Many Americans are living with these conditions. Agencies request an increase for the missing Participant Program as well as establishment of a Retirement Savings lost and found required by the recently enacted to secure 2. 0 to reconnect retirees with the benefits they have earned. These investments will make a real difference retired and elderly people. Working together we can create an economy built surrounding dignity and value of all work and workers. I thank you for the opportunity to testify. Look forward to discussing the fy 2024 budget request with you and all members of the committee. I am happy to respond to any questions you may have. Thank you very much secretary su peller recognized myself for five minutes. I take my duty to conduct oversight. Seriously. Unfortunate secretary walsh did not take his obligation to respond to oversight seriously. During your short tenure track record appears to be about the same as his. At least until you attempted to cancel your appearance at the last minute and are here today only because my threat to issue a subpoena cause you to reconsider appearing. Both cases you have responded to inquiries with a vague letter providing none of the requested documents thereby technically responding to the inquiry but not in fact coming close. When you commit to providing fully responsive answers to the committees request, yes or no . Thank you chairman fox. Im very happy to be here today to testify. I understand our teams Work Together to find the dates. Quick site just a yes or no answer i appreciate your being here. You do not have to thank you very much for the question that just takes of time. I appreciate that. I want to say i take the oversight role of this committee and of congress. Seriously. Then it will be saying yes to my question, yes you will answer our requests completely is that right . Works german fox understands its our job and my request we respond to oversight request and work with you. Do you understand failure to provide complete responses can result in the committee taking compulsory measures . Yes. Its good you know the word. In march my staff requested performance of summation dol Workforce Branch programs the department has had over two months at the informations been provided to date is incomplete and lacks employment and earnings outcomes for significant number of grantees. How can your department effectively manage discretionary Grant Programs if you are not tracking grantee performances . Thank you german fox its very important as you say to track outcomes to make sure we are good stewards of federal monies. Then my request should be very simple. Just hit click and send what you have got. Can you commit to providing performance information on all of etas discretionary grants by the end of the week . Works german fox it is my understanding we have been responsive to requests from you and from this committee if thats not the case for. Let me tell you directly your department has not been responsive. So please review our request and respond appropriately. Going forward will you commit to posting the employment and earnings outcomes for Grant Programs on the departments website . German fox im not clear specifically on the details of what you request. We have work to be transparent about our grandson also about outcomes. I agree with you its very important. The letters are not clear think i read those letters very, very carefully as to our Staff Members to make sure they are clear. If you would simply send a response back and tell us what is not clear we will certainly clarify. We do think the letters are very clear and the information we need is very specific. Let me switch to our division briefly. Despite the wage and Hours Division nearly 10 increase in funding over the last four years it collected the least amount of back wages worker sensed fy 2010 down by nearly 33 from four years ago. The number of workers receiving back wages is the lowest on record for whd. As i have said down by more than 51 from four years ago. These results are not due to a resource issue in covid is no longer a legitimate excuse. These failures reflect a management problem. What are you doing as a manager to fix this poor performance . Thank you very much german fox present deputy secretary of labor over the last two years i had responsibility for management of the department and work closely with the wage and Hour Division to make sure protect. Yes we arty know that. So what is the solution . Ask when we came in in january 2021 Department Enforcement resources and cut dramatically in the Prior Administration about 14 . We have next time we have been here work to rebuild the division, to train staff to make sure we are investigating not all workplaces it makes sense to be targeted and to be smart and to identify which employers are active in violations and which are not the vast majorities. You have effectively taken up a lot of my time without answering questions. I will now yield back my time. I not recognize mr. Courtney for five minutes. Thank you madame chairwoman. Thank you secretary su for your diligent work to have to address as you were just alluding, really the wreckage that took place the Prior Administration. We have seen this on this Committee Enforcement not just the department of labor but also the department of education. I would like to begin my five minutes but noting the fact the biting economy defied all predictions of pundits and economists on both the right and the left last friday when the u. S. Economy added three and 39000 jobs. Again the Unemployment Rate stays before 4 . Even more significantly the report indicated the number of job openings also increase by three and 58000. We are now at a moment 10. 1 million job openings in the economy at the same time we have again record low unemployment. This is a moment for the department of labor to shine. The oa system is a dual customer approach the two customers are jobseekers and employers really can help close the skills gap that we know from talking to employers and frankly every member on the republican side and democratic said if you put them on a trickster would say that is the number one concern were hearing from players out there is trying to find qualified workers. In my district again the Employer Engagement has worked very successfully for manufacturing spike taking place and maybe shipbuilding sector. Again we developed the curriculum back in 2015 under prior secretary of labor tom perez. That is generated 3000 job placements using qualified instructors with the right curriculum on an accelerated basis. Transforming peoples lives can you talk about your own thoughts about engaging with employers in that fashion and really sizing success across the nation . Perhaps thank you so much congressman. Thank you for highlighting an example when Workforce Development programs work at their best. They help meet the needs of employers for a skilled workforce. They help meet the desire for individuals for good jobs for they help to build local, regional and national economy. So, its true that in this moment think the work of the department of labor really takes out an outside importance. We have, due to the really good work of this vardy in partnership with the present historic levels of investments in manufacturing, and infrastructure, in clean energy. In bringing jobs back to the United States. And so the ability to align the needs of employers with the desire of workers in jobseekers through effective Training Programs has never been more important. And that of course starts with employers who starts with understanding Employer Needs. Song the where, when, and how of the jobs they are creating. Making sure the rest of the system we have partners at the Table Community colleges, fouryear colleges in k12 educational system, workforce training Boards Community based organizations, unions, all of the players in the economy working together to set up effective Training Programs registered apprenticeships are very, very important part of that chairwoman mentioned that as well. As the department of labors laser focused on ensuring our investments, or Technical Assistance, our support, our programs are building on the needs and players having this moment. This week President Bidens going to chairwoman state North Carolina interrupted career connected program at the department of education secretary cardona was actively engaged with secretary walsh. This is an all hands on deck situation in terms of getting trade schools and comprehensive high schools. Working hard to close the skills gap. To address these job openings. Again can you talk about your willingness to make this a larger but also education initiative. One 100 . This is like you say all hands on deck. We talk about a whole of government approach. Ive spoken to secretary cardona. This is aligning the educational workforce system is critical to slimmer allow jobs are talking about a manufacturing going to be jobs or do not require for your degree. How to make sure young person from the time to think about what they are going to do after High School Open whether to go to Committee Scott college with a go to a trade school go to an Apprenticeship Program, making sure we align assistance so people dont have to figure that out. We can help them to do them is so, so important thats reflected in our budget requests. Thats reflected in the work of the department over the past two years. I certainly pledge to continue the work secretary walsh and i did together over the last two years and continued to meet need. Thank you madame. Thank you. Mr. Wahlberg your record extra five minutes for. Thank you madame chair and secretary su for being here also to take a note to express appreciation for my friend and colleague from connecticut highlighting continuing success of the tax cut and jobs act. Impacting the economy and the growth of jobs. On may 25 madam secretary along with a chairwoman fox and representative sent you a letter asking for specific information on Migrant Children who are being trafficked and working illegally in the United States from june 2 the department responded with a letter that was generally unresponsive and made no attempt to provide any of the documents or communications that requested. This lack of response and with all due respect without pounding the table i frankly went to ask for your continued help in working with your staff to make sure these issues re request are made. The issues raised in my letter are important in the committees understanding of how it is assisting hhs and dhs from keeping Migrant Children out of harms way. So i would ask you if you would commit to providing the committee with the documents we requested in that letter on may 25 within 48 hours of the conclusion of this hearing . Thank you very much congressman i will direct my staff to look at your staff for. Within 48 hours for. Yes. Thank you i appreciate that. Moving forward into the departments regulatory agenda i understand dol is preparing a proposed rulemaking on the overtime regulations under the fair labor standards act. However i am concerned changes at this time with recent significant increase in inflation, lingering supply chain problems, worker shortages across the country and a potential recession on the horizon may be devastating to economic recovery. Many industries are still trying to get back to prepandemic employment but are struggling. Considering the potential consequences of changing regulations and the fact the agency last updated the overtime regulations only three years ago, can you explain why dol is pursuing these changes . Thank you very much for the question congressman. We take a very deliberative approach to what we do with the department. You are correct, there isnt overtime rule on our agenda. One thing we have been doing since conducting listening sessions but we have conducted 27 virtual listening sessions that involved more than 2000 participants. It is important to understand exactly as you are seeing the impact of any rule that we would make on everyone who could be affected by it. At the same time the wage and Hour Division has conducted listening sessions in person for its Small Business stakeholders work with the Small Business administration to make sure anything we do we have been thoughtful we had listened. We understand all the impacts to get it right straight. Along that same light what about the fiduciary rule . Didnt answer on the fiduciary rule. It is on our agenda. We will be certain to be listening to all stakeholders, all parties. If we are not doing enough to do outreach to let people know that we are having listening sessions and we want to make sure your constituents, the people are hurt and committed to working on them. Thats a concern many people lose access to common sense financial counseling at a level they can afford and pay for. I thought we had achieved that so thats a concern were going back again into areas that frankly seem to be working. Let me move on because my time is about out here. Acting secretary, for decades michigan said the flexibility to to deliver Employment Services through local staffing models which has enhanced integration of Workforce Services at the local level. Last year proposed a rule that would strip michigan and other states of this flexibility in force workforce staff inservice reductions. With 10 million unfilled jobs why would we do this . Think you congressman. I can definitely have my staff get back to you with more detail about that particular issue. But as i said in as i commit we are committed too and anxious to work with you and with everybody in this body to make sure we are meeting those needs for the open jobs that are there. For the individuals who want those jobs include those who have been left out of the economy in the past. I appreciate that. Its working at the local level, state level getting people employed, getting them trained let it happen, that is my request for think you look forward to that for. Think you are much congressman. Lets thank you. You are recognized for five minutes for. Thank you madame chair good morning and welcome madam secretary. I want to first comment that many of the work of the bite administration to your Department Chairman of the Ranking Member noted the record breaking employment. That is to increase with real wages for workers. Those things are notable. Madam secretary, the jurisdiction in the United States that does not apply in my district i have been working on that for a a while trying to get joined by my colleagues. Hopefully we try to get up the sheep to welcome your department support. My other issues are related to the common work issues to the Northern Islands and so for that may i ask for some commitments we would have your office work with my office and getting some answers getting some of these issues resolved in some way . Yes congressman. Thank you so much i certainly believe every worker should retrieve dignity and respect employers should be assistance in meeting their Workforce Needs including those on the islands. Obviously the question of whether cnmi is covered under a specific federal program is with congress i am committed they receive the funding for which it is eligible to enter senior issue you do have my commitment to work with you to make sure we are doing everything we can there. And as you know we have federal investments and Apprenticeship Programs on the island. We have had funding from the rescue plan open to shore up the Unemployment Insurance system and they certainly commit to continuing to work with you and all this things. Think it madam secretary. Is there an issue you would like to bring up just to inform the community about some of the things the department is really trying to achieve . This is treating the next greatest generation of americans. Note degrees, no High School Diplomas and they ran communities well. Thank you so much. I agree with that i imagine this is something every one of us would agree on. The opportunity to create good jobs in every Single Community is one we simply cannot pass up. We are in a moment as an economy we have seen a record of job growth. As the Ranking Member mentioned historically low levels of unemployment. That president has talked about what is it look like to build industrial policy in which we really build a Strong Economy on good jobs by creating good roads, new bridges and make sure every home is clean drinking water. There is affordable reliable Broadband Access in every Single Community and rural communes, urban committees in small towns these are also opportunities to create good jobs in the very same committees the department of labors work is been very laser focused on meeting those needs on aligning those systems, working with employers, with unions with workers with Industry Associations to make sure we meet this moment and the president said it, we implement and finish the job that has been started. Thanks again, thank you for everything that you and your department and best of luck on your new assignment your new endeavor. Thank you. Think is a much congressman for. I yelled for. Thank you. Mr. Enforcement you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you. First question i have is there has been some publications talk about the huge number of people crossing our southern border. He could even say crossing our southern border falls asylum claims. These folks perhaps being taken advantage of. What is your office doing to prevent people who are not in this country illegally from a count may be taking away from American Workers indeed, making sure their employers are obeying all the laws and project liens regard to age . Thank you very much for the question congressman. One of the things you might be referring to is recently our wage and Hour Division found a large number of children working in exploitative labor working conditions. This was a company that had hired over 100 children ages 13 17 working doing sanitation work, cleaning work in the Meat Processing facility. Can i give you a followup question only a five minutes. How many of these children were living with their parents . I do not have a specific number on them. That many of these children were Migrant Children. In as a result. You look for that . I dont like that look for the parents . Approximately look for child labor violations. If someone is being taken advantage of i would assume one thing to do is call the parents, do you call the parents . You look into where the parents are . In this case again some of the kids were 13 years old they were working the night shift for. Right, rectify, 13 on work and night shift i want to call the parents pretty quickly. Do you look for the parents . What we did here is the white house start a task force of the labor of department does include some of our Sister Agency some the questions youre asking. The question is, if you find a 13yearold working the night shift illegally the first thing i would do is contact the parents and find out what is going on. Theres been some concern in this town in the last Administration Children being separated from their parents albeit relatively small compared to the seat of people apparently working illegally. You look for the parents, check offs if they havent parents . That involves the work of other agencies in the federal government we do Work Together this is not an answer for not paying attention bridging task force does include the department of security. Effects this intimate check and see for the kids are here with their parents or whether they were sent north by the drug cartels are whats going on . All important and relevant to the issue at hand. For the department of labor our work was to make sure progress we dont consider that a concern. A cap next question in 2005 you wrote we live in a society built on White Privilege and systemic racial subordination. When i look at the statistics, people coming from all around the globe. People are not of european dissent and quite frankly people to his ancestors lived in china, india, cuba, all doing better than the native born. When you look at all of these groups and doctrines ancestry we define. People in the end write down or have the most successful in this country india, china, philippines, cuba, the silk shirt secondgeneration from the caribbean. Do you still stand by this idea of running down america where society built on White Privilege . Think it congressman. Everything i said and said much more recently it is are a nation where the American Dream was available to certain my family for text serious threat saying that its kind of an inflammatory say about our country you still believe it labor camp that statement . I will certainly say all the talked about today the work that ive done my record last years as deputy secretary but also the decades before i do believe in equal opportunity for all communities. I know. You made an inflammatory statement saying our society is built on White Privilege. Well, people hear from all around the globe do financially better than people of european heritage. India, china, cuba, philippines wherever you look look for. Mr. Grossman i need to wrap up. Just try to get an answer. Could you comment on that or do you regret saying this . Think what youre noting is a nation of opportunity. And i believe that. I am a product of that i am grateful for that i also believe the work of the department of labor is to make sure their opportunities for everybody who is looking for a good job it does not matter where you live for. Thank you. X acting secretary say thank you for being here. Want to start by sending my gratitude to you for your capable and check us leadership at the department of labor. Your qualifications to serve in this role in your strong record as achieving for workers and for businesses those are clear and i share the sentiments of many of my colleagues on this committee in urging the senate to quickly move forward with your compilation. I went to say i find your personal story very inspiring. It is my understanding your parents on a Small Business. A pizza franchise. But that they were able to send you your Sister College look how far youve come its a very inspiring story. Ive been a long time of highquality Apprenticeship Programs. We know they work. I serve as cochair of the bipartisan congressional partnership caucus. I understand apprenticeships are effective in building a pipeline of diverse skilled workers with the pathway to a good paying job. They help businesses thrive and succeed. Im sad about the work happening in the district. Century high school in hillsboro oregon this is known as the Silicon Forest in oregon. Its a first industry supported youth of an hour say it is a twoyear program that provides a pathway for High School Students between the ages of 16 and 18 to get handson paid training that prepares them for current advanced manufacturing. So the Program Provides employers with skill Diverse Workforce to help our nations edge. Your leadership of maple programs programs like this available to more people across the country. Im also grateful for your work with the women. The pleasure of meeting with trades women, blazing organization. Prison construction, manufacturing mechanical. This supports the department of commerce and the department of energy. These historic investments that we have made to growth domestic manufacturing greatly appreciate your leadership in making these pathways available to more women getting more women in the workforce. As this Committee Considers reauthorizing the workforce innovation and opportunity act, i want to highlight sector strategies and partnership are particularly those that link employers with Community Colleges and other institutions of higher education. Ive another example from oregon the Oregon Manufacturing Innovation Center its a very Innovative Partnership between industries, universities, Portland Community college. University researchers and students work on industry developed research problems. Then they provide students with handson experience to get the skills they need to become skilled workers. Also Portland Community college as the willow creek campus and forge lasting relationships with oregon based and Semi Conductor companies. Theres lots of great work being done at the state level that we could replicate. We went to ask you madam acting secretary, the department of labor has the size sector strategies as an evidencebased approach to effective training grants of reasons they are effective as they encourage partnerships. Between Community Colleges, and other relevant stakeholders. Much like loosing in oregon. Another vital developing they could use assistance in creating a partnership. What are sector strategies, where they sell effective and what is the department of labor doing and continuing to do so by the evidencebased . Thank you so much. I dont think i could more effectively describe the benefits from Training Programs and Workforce Partnerships that really work then you have done for i really, really appreciate that. As you have said i think partnerships are critical to deliver an important need an opportunity we have to connect people including people been left out of good jobs in the past. You mention to the extent there are jobs in which women have been underrepresented but could do them. Ive met with women across the country that given a chance to lay pipe 30 feet underground work in the construction trades. Not only do an amazing job to find their own pathway to that middle class lift up their entire family. All these things need to happen in partnership. I do believe the department of labors role is to help solidify those partnerships to bring people together for this prior probably why are funding specifically are sector based funding is about that. Talk about apprenticeships. Apprenticeships are one key tool within those partnerships also. As you have said apprenticeships are a proven triedandtrue model of the average starting wage after completing a registered apprenticeship of 77000. People who think you should Apprenticeship Programs are an average of 300,000 more over their career compared to the peers who do not. This is not just a job its actually a lifechanging opportunity. I hope you get an opportunity if you have not already. Im sorry thank you. [inaudible] mr. Allen youre wrecking this for five minutes for. Think you madam chairman, thank you acting secretary for being here this morning. The first question you need to answer that in writing to the committee. We had chairman powell come and talk about the situation with the Interest Rates and the economy. Said their responsibility is full employment and obviously inflation below 2 . He said we are at full employment. When i send you know the current work Participation Rate is about 62 which is the lowest it has been in some twentysomething years. He said thats not my job at your job or as members of congress met the firm is going on the workforce out there. Right now we had a highend 2000 to almost 70 worker participation. And if you do the math thats about 10 Million People we cant figure out where they are. So could your department do a study to find out where these people are why theyre not working and given the opportunity to work so we can train those folks up and given the great dignity and respect they deserve and the good job so they can live the American Dream . Secondly, moving on to environmental social governance factors in making Investment Decisions your department you had a rule that is precisely why it congressman bar in our last congress to ensure retirement account managers consider only monetary factors may returns in making decisions on behalf of the clients. Unless otherwise authorized. We are currently in the process of reintroducing the version of that build this congress. Yes or no, should maximizing asset proof retirements via Pension Plans top priority . Do you agree . Quest congressman thank you very much i do agree after a worker has worked a lifetime and save for retirement this to be able to expect to maximize the savings. Okay can you deal with that rule . Before the department i was he finally rolled Employment Benefits Security Administration stated march 2021 the departments rationale undertaking a new rule was based on private meetings in which unnamed parties expressed confusion about the 2020 rules and how to interpret them. This in department basis decision to revise the rules behind closed doors. Wire these meetings held in private and on the public . Where were the attending names and dates of these meetings not disclosed . Thank you for the question congressman i am not actually a private meetings are undisclosed. Can get back with me on that . Can you investigate that would have someone in your Organization Look into it and get back to me on why exactly that happened . And for the benefit of the committee. Will you commit to revising the committee with a list of all attendee names and dates of all the meetings regarding the november 2022 esu rulemaking process within 30 days of this hearing . Yes or no. Will you do that . Thank you very much, congressman. What do you do then . What i said earlier about our rules send me a letter on why you cant do that and we will deal with it. We all know that keeping Retirement Plan costs low is important so americans can achieve retirement. For americans with the recent proposed amendments for exemption for qualified professional Asset Management one imposed significant new cost on our system. By extension, American Workers and retirees. Ive heard many concerns with amendments to this four your policy will have negative impact from workers, retirees, plan sponsors, unions, and financial institutions. What you commit to doing a detailed and realistic cost benefit analysis of these proposed amendments that reflect input from stakeholders. Will you do this . Congressman, our esd rule did not require Financial Advisers to do anything in particular. What it did, was i will give them the possibility. You dont do costbenefit analysis . Do you know what costbenefit analysis is . I do. I guess im clarifying with the rule actually was. It was not the requirement, it was allowing Financial Advisers to take into account whatever factors in order to do what youve said, which i agree with, which is that we should maximize Retirement Savings. Get back with me on that too. Im out of time. Thank you, mr. Allen. Think you, madam chair. Thank you acting secretary julie su. Thank you for taking your time to be here with us today and for your strong history of fighting to ensure that every american has access to good paying jobs and to support themselves and their families. One of the things i hear most about one folks are coming back to d. C. Or when i am back home in georgia is about shortages. I hear that again and again. Whether you are building a hospital or trying to find the nurses in support staff, there is a serious disconnect between the good careers that are available and todays economy and the stilted are needed to perform these jobs. Forces like the telecommunications and construction electrician programs offer at the Electrical Training center and my district in georgia, they actually pay their students to learn instead of being forced to take out thousands of dollars in loans to better themselves through education, theyre being paid a decent wage and given room to grow while they upstate obtain the skills necessary to move their families and our country forward. Secratary su so we can see the infrastructure package in the tips and the science act that were signed into law by President Biden. What is the deal done under your leadership to support and import developments. I want to give you more time to expand upon that. There particular programs you would like to highlight for us at this time . Thank you very much for that question and for highlighting other examples of how the workforce system does its work. I think one of the things that your exam violates is a question which is how are we lifting up the ideas, the innovation of local communities like much of much of work element works best. Its meeting specific needs and communities and we have seen our job to help support those kind of innovations on the ground. About supporting employers coming together in their communities with other Workforce Partners to design Training Programs that are going to meet their needs. It is about working with employers to signal and forecast the jobs that they are creating are going to be. That is the best and most effective way to activate the rest of the system. To get Community Colleges, make sure their curriculum and their offerings are responsive to actual jobs that people can get after they complete any kind of program. I think we build credibility in the system, also when we say at the outset this program is going to lead to an actual job at the end of your training. We have invested in sector based partnerships. Weve also been working to meet needs that are welldocumented now for certain industries. Many of them were devastated by the pandemic. I think in every community, there is a need to build our nursing workforce. They did heroic work and we need to invest back and then. The department of labor has an 80 million funding announcement for nurses. We also know this is where understanding the problem is not just having enough nurses, but having enough clinical instructors so nurses can get the clinical hours that they need before they go to work. Our funding announcement is meant to incentivize both of those paths. Thank you. I have one more question to ask you. Registered apprenticeships are a key component of Workforce Development and they provide a clear path to good paying jobs. We know that. As the department done to encourage registered apprenticeships and, so we are clear, registered apprenticeships are not just restricted to union jobs, am i correct . That is 100 correct, congresswoman. The majority of apprenticeships that we have supported, the department of labor in the last year has not been with Union Employers but we have been doing work in cybersecurity. That is a growing industry of good jobs in a four month period, we were able to begin and support enough programs to put 16,000 new apprentices. In trucking, everyone is talked about the supply and change out of this in trucking is one of them. A three month period, we work with over 700 employers and industries. Set up trucking apprenticeships. What we have seen in doing that is that we can solve think you, i think you can submit those things in writing. Thank you. Mr. Banks, you recognized for five minutes. April 17, 2023 headline says as Migrant Children were put to work, the u. S. Ignored warnings. The white house and federal agencies were reportedly alerted to slime children and risks. The warnings were missed. Thousands of children have ended up in punishing jobs across the country working overnight in slaughterhouses replacing roofs, operating machineries and factories all in violation of child labor laws. I think you know by now, reportedly hundreds of thousands of illegal children have entered our workforce in dangerous jobs. The story says that you and this administration have completely ignored what i believe is another example of the biggest humanitarian crisis in american history. What are you doing about it . Think you, congressman for that. You are right that we are talking about children doing jobs that are highly dangerous. It is illegal for children to be working. We are not talking about a young person trying to get their first experience, learning and to show up on time. Secretary, this story says you ignored this issue. I note you just said i am right but why is your department ignoring hundreds of thousands of children illegally in the workplace working in unsafe conditions. What are you doing about it . Think you, congressman. I do not believe the story said the department of labor was not doing what we need to do. In fact, the stories came out because the department of labor was doing our job. We investigated a case that involved over 100 young people as young as 13 looking exactly in the conditions that youve talked about. The policies of this administration in hundreds of thousands of Migrant Children entering the workforce in america there were so many opportunities for the Biden Administration to connect these dots that no one ever did. The question is why didnt you do anything about it . You come before this committee today and tell me that you agree with me but what are you doing about it . What is the all hands on deck moment in your department to take care of this issue . I agree that the work children doing that work is horrific. To make sure the department of labor has the resources to invest in other cases but the reason that those cases are used let me stop you. The Trump Administration was night and day different on this than your administration. In fact, since the biden the ministration started, weve seen a 69 increase in child labor violations because of the open border policies that afforded this country. In this case, was reportedly over 250,000 kids coming into our country entering unsafe conditions and i am glad you are here to tell us that you agree with me but i dont think the New York Times even says that you are ignoring it. In fact, let me go on. This is really incredible. Secretory mayorkas was asked before the Homeland Security committee and the senate about this catastrophe. He said this problem is your fault. The department of labors fault. Is he right about that . I agree that children should not be doing these kinds of jobs that i agree that we should be doing everything we can within our responsibility as the department of labor to crack down on child labor by doing investigations and making sure that employers who profit from this kind of labor are held accountable. That is what we did in the case. Probably the one that is in the news article because that is the case that helped to bring this issue to light and i think its a positive thing that we are talking about. The other thing, congressman. I would like to enter the New York Times story for the record. For my last question, how closely do you work with ice on issues like this . Theres a task force thats being created at the department of labor leads because of our leadership in investigating these cases. It does not include the department of Homeland Security, and includes our partners at the health and human services. Is terrible for ice . Is there a role between your department and ice . This task force is meant to make sure that we have an all hands on the deck approach. I would like to also enter for the record a memo that the acting secretary drafted july 7th, 2017 instructing in the previous role in the state of california, her employees to obstruct the lot and not work with ice. Theres no reason to believe today that she would work with ice in her current role. This is a catastrophe unlike anything we have seen. Because of this administration, i yelled back. Will be entered into the record. Dr. Adams, you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you, madam chair. Madam secretary, thank you. Thank you for being here to discuss the 2024 budgets. Good to see you again. According to one study, for every dollar spent, taxpayers recruit 45 dollars in just three years. These savings come from the reduction in increased participation in the job market which leads to hiring and sales tax revenue. Can you tell me a little bit about the work and reTraining Programs . Thank you very much for that, congresswoman. You are absolutely right that investment in individuals who have great promise and talent are really important to make sure that they can contribute that and help fill the labor needs that we have. Our employment and Training Administration have made this priority under my leadership. We will continue to do so to ensure that when we talk about building this economy from the bottom out and leave no one behind, and includes communities who are re entering. Thank you. Sure you are just as devastated as i am about the recent report regarding child labor and the apparent increase in child labor violations. Corporation should not be making profits off children and children do not belong in factories or working doing hours were they should be studying, spending time with their families, or simply being children. Critical protections for minors to ensure that they are working in the safe and appropriate environments. Case that the department of labor brought which resulted in ps as i. It is a vivid illustration of just how seriously we take this issue. Can you please describe the steps that you have taken to combat child labor . Thank you very much, congresswoman. Yes. We take exploitive child labor very seriously and all of the cases that we have. We look to make sure there is not exploitive child labor happening. We are not talking about a young person getting their first summer job trying to earn money and learn what it means to be in the workplace. We are talking about workers working with toxic chemicals and heavy machinery. Going to work at night after going to school during the day. We look for cases, we say employers who engage in child labor. As you mentioned, in the case which was the subject of the New York Times reports, we issued the maximum penalty. The maximum penalty is set by congress but we also appreciate the attention of this body to looking at whether these penalties need to be increased. Weve been happy to order with you to provide Technical Assistance on that. We currently have over 500 child labor investigations underway in addition to that one. We continue to feel complaints and investigations. In the last year, the department out 835 companies that had investigated. This is a real issue. We are playing close attention to it. That is one reason why there is growing attention to it and i am hopeful that between our work and our budget request and the public attention that its getting, that we might be able to make real strides in very harmful and employers who play by the rules. Think of that question. Let me does ask you something about the development how we owe funding is positively impacted Workforce Development. What has been the impact on people of color in this community. Think you for that question. We owe something that enjoys bipartisan support. The workforce innovation opportunity act does fund workforce programs and many of the programs that we talked about our avenues for advancing equity to make sure that every Single Community has the opportunity to participate in Training Programs and to get the good jobs that are being created. Thank you very much, madam chair. Mr. Owens, you are recognized for five minutes. Mr. Kyle, you are recognized. Good morning, secretary julie su. To make sure i have your background correct, you are the secretary of labor ready from 20192021 . Correct. With the California Labor commissioner from 20112018 . Correct. In your Senate Testimony in april, you touted President Bidens economic record. He said the results speak for themselves. You specifically cited the Unemployment Rate. Less than 4 for more than one year which is close to the lowest its been in 50 years. Do you have to know how your home state of california is doing when it comes to the Unemployment Rate there versus other states . Thank you very much, congressman. I do not know what the current appointment in california is. According to the bureau of labor statistics california, it currently has the second highest Unemployment Rate in the nation. Does that sound right . I trust that you have that correct. If the low Unemployment Rate by your own testimony is a sign of a good economic stewardship, what is it i was about california that has the nations second highest . Think you very much for that question, congressman. You are correct. We share homestay and i was the labor secretary for from 2019 2021 and part of that, the Labor Commission is where my job was to enforce it or labor our laws. Weve established that. The question about the employment rate, which was similar during your tenure. You, yourself have said alone that the employment rate we are doing a good job. I think, congressman, we would like to agree that there are lots of measures of what makes a Strong Economy and there is lots of ways to look at obviously it makes sense for us to try to address high unemployment because having people who are looking for jobs to be able to do jobs and having people who are in jobs, be able to upscale and get the better jobs is the goal that i know we share. Lets talk about another couple other measures. Your testimony in april, too many people to work fulltime yearround and live in poverty. According to the latest Census Bureau data, do you happen to know which state has the highest real poverty in the country . It actually happens to be california. And do you happen to know according to a recent report from the u. S. Bureau of Economic Analysis where telephone your ranks when it came to net Earnings Growth this last year . I dont know that at the top of my head. California was 50th out of 50. Goals are to reduce unemployment, reduce poverty, and increase wages. Is california really the best model given it is the absolute worst in the country of 50 states by all of these measures . Again, congressman, i think there are lots of measures for how well an economy is doing. My understanding, and i have not worked in california now for two years but by some measures, including recovery from the pandemic, including decreased in property over the last few years recovering since the pandemic that california has i want to reiterate. These are the very measures that you, yourself cited in your own testimony. Where you lead the Labor Department is doing the worst in the country. Lets move on to a law that you were charged with enforcing in california. Were you involved i know you worked in the legislature but were you involved in the drafting . Including any conversations with the Interest Groups that helped draft them . Think you, congressman. It is been established and as you know, i was never part of the california legislature. As i just said. Were you involved in any way in the drafting . I did not draft. Were you involved in any way of the drafting . No. Did you support the law . My job as labor secretary was to enforce the laws that were passed by the legislature. I under i understand that. Did you express support . I expressed the need to enforce laws that are passed by the legislature and that is the same thing. My question is did you supports express . And i were talking a lot about what i did in california. Do you think it was a good luck . It is both my job now as the acting secretary of labor and the job that i had in california as labor secretary in the Labor Commissioner to enforce laws that are passed. That is not what i asked. I asked if you think ab5 is a good law . Give me a little bit more of what you mean by that. Do you think it was good for the state . I think when ab5 was first signed, one of the things i did in my role as labor secretary of california was create we reached out to employers and worked with chambers my time is running out. I want to give you one last chance, acting secratary su. Is ab5 a good law, yes or no . I think its an Important Role of the government to help employers comply with the law. Yes or no . You really get the witness to answer truthfully. I recognize mr. Takano for five minutes. Thank you, madam chair. Acting secratary su, welcome. It is great to see you again. I am proud to be among the members of the congressional asian caucus. Urging him to nominate you as labor secretary. Asking for that letter to enter, madam chair. I would like to highlight what was said this very morning. The congressional black caucus, the hispanic caucus, the democratic womens caucus urging Senate Leadership to swiftly. The letter ended up with 79 signers. I asked to enter this into the record, madam chair. Without objection. Furthermore, on the los angeles change i ask unanimous consent for this letter to be entered on the record, madam chair. Thank you. Thank you. Acting secretary, as you know, we have a workforce protection subcommittee hearing that addressed the Labor Departments rule on this classification of workers. From what i understand, what was in the proposed rule because it was so reasonable. Many business groups expressing opposition issued statements saying that your department the direction of your department was taken very reasonable. First, does the proposed rule from the Biden Administration on this classification adopt the task . Thank you very much for that question, congressman and thank you for the support. It has been very meaningful. No, the proposed independent contractor rule of the department of labor does not include the test. Thank you. In fact, the proposed rule says on page 62,230 of the federal register notice that the department continues to believe that legal limitations prevent the department from adopting the abc will or abc test. Is that correct . We were very explicit. We could not apply in abc test. Thank you. Am i correct that the position of the department is that you cannot adopt the abc test unless Congress Passes a law and they need to do that. That is correct. Thank you. Do you believe that the Constitutional Order of separation of powers means that the department may only implement rules that are consistent with the laws that Congress Passes . Yes, sir. Is it true that instead of an abc test, the proposed will implement what is called the economic realities test . Is that right . That is correct. The second economic reality test is consistent with decades of federal precedent under both republican and democrat restrictions. Is that right . Yes. As previously noted, the closed rule is not the abc test. The International Franchise Association List two of the largest entities most vocal to the abc test. Even came out with their own statements when the will was released. Lift unequivocally stated that the rule did not reclassify with drivers as employees and that their Business Model would not be forced to change. The International Franchise associations statement about d. O. L. s proposed rule applied the proposal and expressed recognition that the abc test does not apply to the flsa. Consent for these statements to be entered into the record, madam chair. Without objection. These very companies, themselves, that were most vocal against abc tests are expensive praise for the d. O. L. Proposed will. Democrats are not the only ones praising this will. Ive heard a lot with my colleagues about your role with ab5 in california after it was passed by the state legislator. Acting secratary su, yes or no, did you serve in the california state legislator . I did not. Yes or no, was the california state legislator a branch of the State Government that passed ab5 . Yes it was. Where were you when this state law was passed . I was serving as the California Labor secretary. Yes or no. We you required to limit this law as secretary of labor wanted was enacted . Yes, i was. Thank you. Its outrageous and that her firing attacks from you, trying to get your opinion about the law, was it a good hour about . They are failing in their attempt to try and mischaracterize you. Acting secretary, you spent your whole life fighting to improve the lives of working people and as the daughter of immigrants, you represent the best of us in the story that your mother coming to the United States on a cargo ship because she could not afford a passenger ticket, and now her daughter is up for Senate Confirmation truly represents the americans ran. I am so proud of you and i appreciate you being with us today. I look forward to you being confirmed for secretary of labor. Thank you. I yield back. Think you, i am proud of you for getting the secretary to be able to say the word yes again. Mr. Smucker, you are recognized for five minutes. Think you, madam chair. Thank you for this time. Thank you for being here as well. We have 10 million onfield jobs in our economy today. Every Business Owner i talked to, thats the number one issue. I am sure you are aware of that. I believe we should be doing everything we can to connect people not participating in the workforce with jobs that are available today. One policy that is of particular concern was the departments final rule in 2022 ending the industry recognized a Friendship Program which your department justified by saying it no longer believes the skills gap to be a major challenge facing the labor market. Why that comment . Why would the department be underlining the seriousness of the skills gap and what employers have you spoken to that indicated the shortage of skilled workers is not a major challenge . Thank you, congressman. We have been working very closely with all stakeholders but employers as well who meet the need for skilled workers in the jobs that are being created in every community. In manufacturing, clean energy, infrastructure, and more. We are also very committed to outside of these Big Investments that this body and working with has made possible really committed to helping rebuild the workforce in like teachers, healthcare workers. I already mentioned truckers and other jobs that are historically not having apprenticeships. That is all work that we have been laser focused on over the last two years. Could you specifically address your opposition to the industry recognized the Friendship Programs . I thank one of the things that we need to do and have been doing is make it easier for employers to want to have a registered a Friendship Program to do so. We have done that. I talked about trucking earlier. It is now a matter of days. We have expanded teacher apprenticeships do not 17 states across the country. These are registered apprenticeships which means they have the quality, the wage progression, all the benefits that make Apprenticeship Programs so good for both employers and workers. We need to make it easier for employers who want to do that. We should make it as easy as possible and that was a model that could potentially have worked well with your support. I do want to get to another issue, though. President biden has said he intends to be the most in history has pursued policies that benefit Union Workers which is fine except to the detriment of a all other workers in some cases for example, through regulations on federal procurement and federally assisted Grant Programs. Plas limit the pool of qualified bidders to unionize contractors and union labor, which increases cost. Anytime you are decreasing supplies. It also limits Job Opportunities for nonunion construction workers. You have an obligation to support all American Workers regardless of the labor affiliation. You commit to opposing these exclusionary policies that harm the 88. 3 of construction workers who choose not to join a union . Certainly, i commit to supporting and serving workers regardless of their union affiliation. Will you support to implement the project labor agreements on any federal projects . I thank some of those project labor agreements are written into statute, into the bipartisan structure law passed by congress. I see my job as having full fidelity to the law. As this body passes, the law as courts interpret them, i thank there is also studies that demonstrate project labor agreements decrease costs over time because it assures a reliable workforce that is trained and fewer disruptions are more reliable. We are unfortunately out of time but would love to have your support to ensure that all workers, whether they have chosen to be part or not and have access to these jobs that are available for federal projects. I thank its important in the area that i represent what i have seen workers excluded through these agreements. Thank you. You are recognized for five minutes. Thank you, madam chair. It is delightful to see you and i just want to tell you how proud i am of you. Your dignity and grace today just reconfirms your intelligence, and it would be a released ad state for this country if you are not confirmed giving your qualifications in your presence today. Some talk about california. I was not in legislature when ab5 was fast but it was the former chair of the Senate Labor Committee when we did much of the groundwork. When we were trying to work with the private sector and somebody from the bay area, we wanted to work with. I understand with the proper classification was in the people take advantage of that. I say this as a long time 35 year california Small Business owner who has made hundreds of payrolls. I have always respected my employees that we were trying to get this right but i had to compete against employers who did not play by the rules including hiring people illegally and we did work about that holding employers who were flouting the laws and you were part of that discussion, accountable for hiring people who should not have been hired, who i had to compete with. The numbers about unemployment tell one part of the story. The Unemployment Rate in california, there is a big spike because of the tech industry. I would argue they are taken advantage under the guise of innovation. In the context of numbers, data from the u. S. Bureau of Economic Analysis shows that california has the highest gdp in the nation at around 3 1 2 trillion dollars. Apart from the inevitable decline during the early days of covid, californias economy only grew during your time as secretary of California Labor and where it was first developed. Is that right . I am not familiar exactly with that but i trust that you have your facts correct. Its right. We clearly did not coordinate these questions. In fact, during your tenure from 20082020, total growth in employment outpaced national employment. Median Household Income which is particularly important giving our quality increased faster over 10 years than it did nationally. Real domestic product in california rose by 30 to 2. 7 billion. Nearly double the amount for which national gdp rose during that same time period. An analysis by bloomberg news, californias domestic audit includes increased 21 during the past five years. New york, 14 , california, 21 . Number three, texas at 12 . Among the five largest economies, california, the u. S. , japan, germany with the growth rate exceeded by china. In california, if it was a country would be the fourth largest economy in the world. We exceed every other state in patents and innovation. This economic success has followed you to the white house. Since youve been at the department of labor, the economies added more jobs than during any other entire administration in memory and we are not even halfway through the first term. What policies of the Biden Administration have you lead that have helped lead these levels of job creation and national Unemployment Rate hitting historic lows . Thank you very much, congressman for your question. As has been said, the last two years under the Biden Administration have seen record growth in multiple measures of a healthy economy and defied multiple expectations at the department of labor. Our role is incredibly important that we will have job growth and economic recovery on one hand and needing to connect people to good jobs and employers of the workers that they need as well as to make sure that every worker works in a healthy and safe environment and goes home safely at the end of the day and gets wages that are earned. That is the fundamental responsibility of the department of labor. Over the last two years as deputy secretary working alongside marty walsh, we worked very hard to do all of those things, to fulfill our mission and make sure we are helping to rebuild the unemployment system coming out of the ashes the pandemic. Making sure we are investing in innovative sector specific Training Programs that are going to meet Employer Needs and meet worker needs. Expanding apprenticeships, as i have already mentioned. Working hand in hand with employers and workers to help to take advantage of these very historic investments that are being made to rebuild the economy. Thank you. Proud of you. Thank you. Miss mclean, you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you, madam chair. Thank you for being here today. I have some pretty easy questions. Simply, you are driving the bus, right . You are the acting secretary of labor, right . I thank its important for everyone to understand your thought process. Do you support the United States freemarket economy . Yes, in general, yes. Thank you. Do you believe in american entrepreneur should have the ability to pursue their dreams and omissions . Yes. Wonderful. Believe its the responsibility of the department of labor to make it easier or more difficult for entrepreneurs . I thank that it makes sense for the department of labor to help support entrepreneurs. People who want to use their innovation. I will take that as a yes. Then i want to highlight your record in trying to understand why President Biden thinks you are the best option as the next secretary of labor with yeses on my last three questions. You oversaw the highly controversial ab5 that reclassified every independent contractor. Very entrepreneurial in spirit and effectively killed off the good economy in california. If you are confirmed as secretary of labor, will you demand that Congress Passes a similar bill to kill off independent contractors . Thank you very much for that question, congresswoman. I would dispute that the gig economy has been killed off in california. Lets get back to the are you. Are you confirmed as the secretary of labor, will you demand Congress Passed a similar bill to kill off independent contractors and independent contractor status . I will not do that. Wonderful. We are on a roll. Do you believe the death of the gig industry is the economy as positive or negative . I thank we might have a different here. Thank you, congresswoman. I believe that we should support job growth, job creation, businesses who create jobs and make sure we are both paving the high road to an economy where everybody wants to work, has a good job. The middleclass life him exactly. I also believe its partly my job to make sure we are enforcing labor laws so everybody complete on a level laying field. Something we talked about today, we do not have child labor. Thank you. Last week the Supreme Court ruled 81 that organized labor cannot damage Employer Property during work action. 81. Do you agree that Union Members or any employees, for that matter, have the right to damage the property of their employers . No, i do not thank there is a right to damage. Thank you. Your written testimony to the Senate Health committee in april, you highlighted the fact that you were heavily involved with the negotiations between the rail employees and the unionized employees. Are you truly proud of the work that you did on that . I am, congresswoman. Let me remind you, congress had to step in to prevent him national shutdown. In conclusion, im concerned with your past actions in the rhetoric because we can say one thing but our actions have to follow in that is what is important for the American People. I can see why there is a Bipartisan Group of senators who are really opposed to your nomination because your actions dont match your words. Youve shown a deep sustain for businesses and employers. Lets not forget that it is the businesses in the employers that pay the taxes. It is our economic systems that give us our social programs that we all desperately need. In my opinion, if you truly cared about the workers you would be supportive of the policies that actually grow business. We have to incentivize businesses. Small businesses. We have to incentivize entrepreneurs to be able to work and do their jobs. I want to talk about one of the thing that we talk about. We continue to talk about job creation and job growth but if we started at 10 and we lose jobs to a 2 and we go from 25, we are still down. It is the bottom line that counts, provided we know how to count, and that is what we need to focus on because we have to take a look at the total job growth in the economy because the people in my district are constantly talking about how regulations in the department of labor are stunting their growth. If you truly cared about workers, you would be supportive of the policies that actually grow the business jobs in our economy. If i had to put on your nomination, ive got to be honest, i would give her know. I would vote no. Thank you and i yield back. Thank you very much. You are recognized for five minutes. Thank you, madam chair. Great to have you here today. I would like to talk a little bit about where we have been and where we are going. Having going to that other four year school which is an apprenticeship. The one that i went to as part of the system that is the most successful Job Training Program in the history of the United States. Its called the registered Apprenticeship Program. Im sure you are aware that. It taught me necessary skills, not only the success but it also created an opportunity for a great career and ability to feed my family and take care of them. The Construction Industry is a great example of the most successive program which takes little to any money for the Training Program. Heard a lot about the industry recognized the friendships. There is nothing that prevents any company from creating their own Apprenticeship Program. They are allowed at any moment to create it. There is no stopping it. You can do it yourself. Unless you want the government to pay you and that is the big difference. We want your money but we dont want any kind of regulations. Even though registered Apprenticeship Programs have been seen and had the experience of the most Successful Program. I believe that a private industry wants to create, they can go do it. But if you want the government to pay you to do it, there are certain conditions which is something called checks and balances. Somebody thats been involved with that not only in california but when you were approved by the senate for the seat that you used to, as deputy, which you are approved by the senate, correct . Yes. Tell me about the registered program. Why are they successful . What are you going to do with that money if it is approved . Thank you very much, congressman. I thank they are successful because they are built in partnership. As you mentioned, many of them are in construction. Electricians are facing a growth lots of the investments that are being made right now. Having programs that are tried and true that are based in skills that are really needed for the job and have the ability to recruit participants so that we can meet the actual in demand needs that employers have is baked into how Apprenticeship Programs work. That is why we are so successful. Build from in demand jobs, skills that are really needed. The guarantee of a job at the end of the Training Program. That is why we spent so much time talking about it here and by the department of labor is so invested in helping to expand them to meet the needs that we do here that employers have in that workers have for good jobs and good workers. The idea of the program, for example. The electrician, the in new jersey do the same thing. Why is that so important . When storms hit florida, North Carolina, south carolina, and they ripped out of the power poles, there is something called storm break line person from all over the country comes together to put it back together. The idea of having separate programs not only leads to problems in the construction. One of the highest incidence of death on the job years ago before these programs were put together. This is something that we as a country do each and every day. Is absolutely imperative and to do so otherwise would be risking peoples lives. The idea of a program by an employer for a unique and new program that they might be doing. I do not thank i have heard that that is a bad idea. In fact, they are approved at a very high rate area can we talk about what it takes to get registered program . We hear how hard it is but quite frankly, when i talk to employers, its not a big deal. I am so happy to hear that, congressman. One of the things we have been focus on is working with employers to meet their needs to make sure we are not only continuing to scale Apprenticeship Programs that we know already work but to help build new ones for employers and to cut the amount of time and the red tape it takes to do that. The electric car was around back when i started, the idea of what it was going to take is something that everybody is open to. The way were going to do this is working together. They are an equal part of what we call employment. We need to be ready as a country and we appreciate what you are doing for the next generation of the work force. Thank you. Thank you. You are overtime. I yield back. You are way over time. Apparently, a lot of people were. I dont want you to pick on me, just treat me fair. You are recognized for five minutes. Thank you. Acting secratary su, do you thank the department of labor has the power to impose a Vaccine Mandate on 84 million American Workers . Thank you for that question, congresswoman. When this administration began in 2021, were still paddling the covid pandemic. I thank you are talking about a proposed rule that the department of labor did. To ensure that work places were safe. Is edible that you are an architect of in if you sign off on . I want to know if you believe the department of labor has the power, and if you believe it was constitutional at the time, to enforce this unprecedented, unheardof action on American Workers. I appreciate that, congresswoman. As i have said today, i believe in full fidelity to the wall to the well. The courts did strike down that rule and as a result, we have not. Do you thank biden was wrong and the department of labor was wrong in imposing this emergency use Vaccine Mandate on 84 million workers . I thank during the height of the pandemic, everyone, especially those were trying to figure out the best we could do to keep workers safe in a situation in which this was unprecedented in history and we want to know, today, do you believe the department of labor has the power to impose a Vaccine Mandate on workers . I, again, reiterate my full fidelity to the law and what the courts have said about that mandate. Thankfully, the Supreme Court stepped in to stop you but i want to know what was your plan if millions of workers were forced to be vaccinated and turn in their medical records if they refused. What was your plan for all these millions of workers that were going to quit . I thank , congresswoman, looking back to that period, i thank this administration is part of the recovery that we have made since 2021 by a whole host of measures. We are concerned about where you are on this issue because you want to be acting secretary and we want to know what you thank is within your power, the department of labors power, to impose on American Workers. This was unprecedented. You are an architect, you signed off on it. This was damaging to American Workers. Congresswoman, i thank my record demonstrates is that i am really focused on making sure department of labor fulfills its mission including all the things we talked about today, to get workers into jobs. It wouldve caused millions of workers to be fired from their jobs and i just want to say it senator manchin boats to confirm acting secretary sue, he is voting in support of providing covid Vaccine Mandate. Acting secretary sue was one of the architects of the Vaccine Mandate which the Supreme Court ruled was illegal and unconstitutional. Acting secretary su tried to force 84 million americans out of work and illegal and unconstitutional Vaccine Mandate. She cannot be the secretary of labor. She believes the federal government in washington, d. C. Should have massive power over the lives of the American People and it took the Supreme Court to stop her. Thank you and i yield back my time. Acting secretary su, we have heard that the most successful Job Creation Program in the country it is registered Apprenticeship Program. Isnt it true that only 43 of people graduate from the registered Friendship Programs . Yes or no. Well, 43 . I would never grate anything with 43 Graduation Rate as successful. You are hearing for the senate help committee. Do you confirm the department is not currently working on changes to the joint employer standards . Will you commit to us today that d. O. L. Will not pursue such changes in either your current capacity or if you are confirmed as secretary. Yes or no . Thank a mature woman. We do not have anything about the joint employer rule. As you know, the department okay. Im going to take that as a yes, you will not pursue such changes and i yield back. You are recognized for five minutes. Thank you, madam chair. Acting secretary su, is an absolute delight to see you here as the nominee for labor secretary as well. I say that also was an Asian American woman. Looking at somebody who is so skilled, so experienced, so qualified, such a record of success in your tenure and a deep lived experience of people who do the work every day that this country desperately needs making sure that you are standing up for all the things that america is great because of our commitment to our workers. I also want to particularly thank you for leadership on apprenticeships and making sure that workers have the skills that they need to fill the jobs created with 2 trillion in Infrastructure Investment that we were able to pass in the hundred 17 congress. To give the statistics. Since january of 2021 when you came in, 584,000 new apprenticeships created. In 2023, 90,698 new partnerships created. We note that under this president , under democratic control of the house and senate and 13 million new jobs created since the president took office and the share of working americans in the workforce is at its highest level in 16 years. Congratulations on a tremendous record of accomplishment already. As the representative of seattle, which poses a Thriving Business Community and a very Strong Economy, i know firsthand the value of engaging with employers to promote broad based economic prosperity. Acting secretary su, would you agree that businesses and employers are Key Stakeholders in the effort to build an economy that works for everyone . I absolutely agree with that, congressman. I thank my record demonstrates that. You have some history with your own families experience running a franchise business. I wondered if you wanted to share that . Thank you. For me, the idea that Small Businesses are the engines of our economy and they are job creators and are important for us to support is not an abstract thing. It is something that i know from my life. My parents owned a laundry mat and drycleaning business. I have memories of being a small child sitting on the dryer while my parents worked. When i was in high school, they owned a pizza franchise, and i remember because my sister and i, we often got the pizzas that customers rejected that my dad brought home at the end of the day and that was often what we brought in our lunchboxes the next day. Around the kitchen table, i learned about what Small Businesses have to do. I learned about the struggles to hire and frame and maintain a payroll. My dad worked alongside workers. He worked the ovens, but when he was needed to wipe down tables, he did that. I have Great Respect for the hard work, the investments, the risks, the challenges, and also the joy of what Small Business owners do, because it is the reason i was able to go to college, is that my parents had a Small Business. In my time as deputy secretary, but also in my time as acting secretary and if confirmed as secretary, i understand personally the importance of our role in supporting those businesses. My colleagues across the aisle trying to portray you as somebody who doesnt care about business or employers isnt it true that a number of Business Associations have endorsed to her nomination to be labor secretary, including the society for Human Resource management, the l. A. Chamber of commerce, the u. S. Hispanic chamber of commerce, the a api business leaders, and Small Business majority . Thank you so much for that. I do think that for Industry Associations who have worked with me, i have earned their respect, and i am grateful for it. Your collaborative approach is also evident, facilitating several highprofile contract negotiations. I find it remarkable that you been endorsed by the Longshore Union and the port of loss angeles. Heidi respond to critics who say you are not able of being a partial arbiter . My recommendation says that would be false. Right now, there are a number of highstakes negotiations that are going on, and i have the experience and the track record to demonstrate that having somebody in the role of labor secretary to help make sure that parties understand the complexities of such negotiations and to understand how important it is for parties to stay at the table is something that i bring to the job. All my colleagues need to do is look at the fact and they will see that you are absolutely the best candidate to be our next secretary of labor, and i look over to that date. So much for your commitment to this country into this work. Thank you. Thank you, chairwoman fox, for hosting this important hearing. Miss su , the labor negotiations for the west coast ports have gone unknown for almost a year, and an agreement has still not been reached. Recently, west coast ports and terminals were shut down after Union Employees walked off the job. Disruptions in the supply chain will damage our economy, and it has been done, because i saw a lot of ships during the covid times that are lined up on the shore of my district at that time. Former secretary acknowledged this when he successfully intervened in a rail strike that threatened the entire country. So question is, what is the bureau of labor statistics telling you about the potential damage the west coast port shutdown might have on economy and the labor market. Thank you so much, congresswoman. I was very proud to work alongside then secretary of labor marty walsh on that negotiation were we brought the parties and for 20 hours in our office and reached a tentative agreement. These negotiations can be complicated, and they would be prolonged, and there will be ups and downs. When it comes to the port, we are talking about 29 ports on the west coast involving about 22,000 workers, and the parties have been in conversation since i got involved a couple of months ago. They did reach a tentative about some of the complicated issues, but they are not finished yet. They are still bargaining. They are still at the table. What you noted about the ships that were lined up, we all saw that. That is not the case today. That is no longer happening. And i think that part of that is a reflection of, you know, workers showing up every day, doing the hard work to keep our cargo moving and keep our economy running. Its a tribute to the employers who are also working very hard to make sure that that critical lifeline, as you say, to trade, to good stays operational. That has been true in the last few months since i have been here sitting in my seat as acting secretary, and i am committed to supporting the parties as they work through the issues that are on the table. I understand that they are continuing to do that. Thank you. It seems like negotiation will be done hopefullys tune, but my question was, west coast ports shutdown might have on economy and the labor market. What potential damages, was my question here. I will have to get back to you on the exact figures about that, but in general, you are correct, that the west ports play a really critical role. At one point, i believe it was 40 of all cargo most west coast ports. I think your general point that a resolution is important, because so much economy relies on the west coast ports. Its under negotiations right now, and it is very much hurting our economy. What are you doing to prevent a strike, and the work stoppages . It seems like it just completely shut down after Union Employees walked off the jobs. I mean, that is not really acceptable here. So what you are doing to prevent in future . The parties are definitely at the table. They are working through some difficult issues. There are lots of things for them to be talking about i heard that there are negotiations, but how about the shutdown . So what is really going on, and there have been some media reports that are not actually accurate. There is not a shutdown. Cargo continues to move in the ports. There has been maybe a decade long trend in some decrease in cargo coming to the west coast that is not as a result of the talks that are going on. I think i agree with your general point that coming to a resolution and providing sums certainty and clarity is good for everybody. Lets go back to that. How are you going to resolve this dispute . What kind of negotiations are going on . You said there are really a lot of complications and a lot of things on the table right now. How are we going to do it . Its been almost a year, and that negotiation was done, and that really hurts the economy that i have been talking about. What is on the table, and how are you going to solve it . And how soon . I do want to restate the cargo continues to move it west coast ports and workers show up to do their jobs, even during negotiations. The leadership of both parties is very hard at work trying to resolve the issues that they have. This idea i think if you would mind just submitting in writing to the congresswoman the rest of your answer. I could just close it really quickly. That these negotiations are complicated is not unique to this issue. We see the time and time again the collective bargaining process does work and unions reach agreements miss manning, you are recognized for 5 minutes. Thank you, madam chair. Acting secretary, i would like to apologize for the insulting way that you were welcomed to this hearing. The opening comments were appalling, unnecessary, and meanspirited. And they were an attempt to cover up the extraordinarily great work the 117th congress and the Biden Administration did to bring our country through the worst Global Pandemic in a century. Thanks to the American Rescue plan, the infrastructure law, the chips and science act, and the Inflation Reduction Act, we have the most robust economic recovery of any country in the world. We have the lowest Unemployment Rate in decades, and we have seen wage increases for workers who have not participated in the Economic Growth that benefited large corporations and the wealthy during the Prior Administration. So i want to thank you for your service to our country, and the American People you work to help every day. It is you and i have discussed previously, i represent North Carolinas sixth congressional district, where we are enjoying the growth of advanced manufacturing, particularly in the clean Energy Automotive and aerospace industries. We welcome this growth. But i hear from employers in my district that they are struggling to find skilled workers to fill these good paying jobs. So can you tell us more about the department of labors work to ask and training opportunities to help workers gain the skills they need, and also how congress can help with these efforts . Thank you so much for that question. So we are really laser focused on this exact issue of meeting the need for skilled workers in specific Job Industries that are working as a result of the important work of this body to make historic investments. What we are also seeing, its a tribute to good policy and how important it is when the federal government engages in policy that helps to expand the economy and build jobs. The private sector also contributes, so we are seeing hundreds of billions of dollars now being invested, especially in advanced manufacturing. I think in ways that are going to have historic impact on the economy going forward, building a strong, resilient, equitable economy. Our role in the department of labor is to make sure the Training Programs are actually meeting employee needs, and recruiting for workers that its important to say, because i think it has suggested otherwise that workers have come back into the labor market to prepandemic levels, especially in the prime age of the workforce of 25 to 54. So we are seeing historic Economic Growth. But what we need to do is finish that job. We need to make sure that those impacts are felt in every Single Community and that every worker who wants a good job can find the educational and training opportunities to get them, and the employers, who have said they need skilled workers. Its our job to support them. Not to do it for them. The whole idea is that communities working together has solved lots of problems before, but our job is to help support that and to bring all of the players in the work force system in line to help do this. One of the things i have not yet talked about, one is an 80 million grant that is specific to these particular sectors. Infrastructure, clean energy to help build proven models for training and also to help scale them. Its not enough now, because of the historic growth we are seeing, because of the point that has been made, that there are lots of jobs out there right now that need workers. We need to be able to stale and move quickly to finish the job, and that is something i look forward to doing and continuing to do with this body. My district is also home to extraordinary universities and colleges such as North Carolina and tea, which recently got a 23. 7 million grant to build a Training Program for workers, and guilford technical Community College which just received a 1. 7 million federal grant to expand his truck driver Training Programs. Should be we working more with our colleges and Community Colleges to help create work with Development Programs . I see that my time is about to expire. 100 , yes. Thank you for all your hard work. Thank you, mr. Being. You are recognized for five minutes. Id like to yield to the gentleman from california, mr. Kiley. Thank you. As weve heard some comments from the other side, as well as being witness our self to what is californias a. B. Five have to do with any of this. But President Biden has himself said and this is a quote that he wants a federal standard modeled on californias abc test for all labor, employment, and tax laws. Ms. Su , you are President Bidens chosen nominee to be secretary of labor. I think its fair to ask. Do you agree or disagree with the president a. B. Five is a good model for the nation . Let me be as clear as i can do about this. A. B. 5 is not federal law. It will only be federal law if congress decides that it should be. I have not called for that at a federal level. In fact, i have explicitly, during my tenure, when we created the proposed rule about independent contractors, explicitly said that we do not adopt an abc test, and in fact, we cannot i understand that. However, theres quite a bit of leeway in that rule and its clearly designed to mimic the abc test. The disposition of the enforcer is critical to our i didnt get an answer. Do you agree or disagree with the president s statement that its a good model for the nation. Yes or no . I have to say again, because the question seems to ignore that i we cant it is strictly in the purview of congress to decide whether a. B. 5 the abc test would become the tests for independent contractors on the federal level. Earlier, you said that you might have expressed support for it before. Just to refresh your recollection, shortly before it was signed, you went on the record and said, not only were you want to be adjudicating claims it came to you, but you said we will be doing investigations and audits so that those who want to comply could do so and those who dont will understand these are your words this is not the kind of economy we want in california. Now, will you at least recognize, acting secretary su, the people in california have lost their careers and their ability to work because of a. B. 5 . I have heard from people who said that, and an its important to acknowledge them. Ive had direct conversations with them as recently as a couple of weeks ago where i dont want ever our policies to result in people losing their livelihoods or having to to ab5 do that . Did it cause people to lose their livelihoods . I have heard people who said that. Ive heard people say differently, too. Youve heard people say they lost their livelihoods because of ab5 . Even to the quote you just read, it feels like that quote is exactly what, in my role as the enforcer of laws, i would say. Which is that we are going to enforce the law as it is written, and we want to make sure that we have i mean, on economy in which people everybody plays by the rules. So this is a book of stories shortly after the law passed where people have said, as you put it, they lost their livelihoods because of ab 5. It was my goal since i was nine years old. After ab 5, i lost all three of my agencies. The dream i work for is lost. I cant provide for my family. Is your message to jody that that is just not the kind of economy we want in california . My message to her is that modified independent contractors but not her. I havent had a conversation with her, but i do think it is very important to reiterate that the policies at the United States are the policies that at the federal level are the policies that would be within the purview of the Labor Department. While you were California Labor department secretary, did you meet with any of the folks who lost their livelihood because of ab 5 . I did. I talked with many people on both sides about the impact of ab 5 after it was passed. I spent a lot of time talking with employers about how implementation could work them. And as you know, california voters have also weighed in with prop 22, which said we dont want ab 5 to apply. How did you vote on that, prop 22 . How did i vote on prop 22 . I dont remember how i voted on that. Prop 22, the one apply to uber, lift, door dash drivers saying ab 5 wouldnt apply to them . I will give you a second to think about it. Do you remember how you voted . Congressman, i want to see very clearly here that i pledge and i think my record demonstrates absolute fidelity to the laws as passed by this body and is delegated to i appreciate that, but now that you had a second to think, do rubber how you voted on that . Your time is up. Mr. Bowen, you are recognized for 5 minutes. Thank you for joining us here today. It is clear from your long, outstanding record in your work as deputy secretary no acting secretary and testimony and answers here you are extremely committed to our country, workers, and economy. You so much for your love of our country and your service to this country. My background is in education. I spent two decades in the bronx before coming to congress. I really believe in Effective Congress will secretary in higher education, local businesses, local Workforce Development agents these are key to creating successful pathways to good paying jobs. I have seen how important these partnerships can be up close. I just want to followup on representative mannings previous questions. Can you discuss the steps youre taken to discuss that collaboration, especially to support pathways into sectors like stem and stem workforce that are becoming increasingly critical to our economy. Can you talk about that . Yes. In many of the Workforce Development programs that we are supporting and for which we are providing Technical Assistance, Community Colleges and institutions in general play a very Important Role. We have an opportunity now for millions of people throughout the United States who dont have College Degrees to actually get good paying jobs in advanced manufacturing, and clean energy, in infrastructure, and a whole host of industries that are going to allow them to build their way to the middle class. Having multiple pathways to that is very important. Working at the High School Level so that young people can think about what opportunities are going to be available for them. Im not saying theres only one path to success. Community colleges play such an Important Role, and thats a space in which the department of labor has done more work because of the role that Community Colleges play in workforce systems. For example, preApprenticeship Programs. For a young person to go to Community College and gain the skills to learn you know, math that will help them get a job in construction is really key for them to then connect to the Apprenticeship Program that then puts them into a job a really good paying, secure job. We have a Community College Grant Program that i think is now in its third round in which we have invested 135 million in Community Colleges to this end. And so i think the partnerships our job is to align the various parts of the system so they work as seamlessly as possible for employers and job seekers and for workers in the system who are seeking to upscale. I have also, since i have been in this position, spoken to secretary cardona about the collaboration between our agencies to be sure that this happens. Thank you so much for the answer. You mentioned interagency collaboration, and that is obviously very important work that we should be doing here in the capital. How are your agencies working together on Workforce Development . I have one very concrete example to share on that, which is teacher apprenticeships. Recognizing that teachers worked throughout the pandemic, got us through. I have two children who relied on their teachers in times where they had to adjust and find new ways of teaching and were doing hybrid teaching. So we have, now in this country, a need to build a teaching work horse. And it is our turn to reinvest in that workforce that has given always, but that gave us so much. We worked with the department of education to expand teacher apprenticeships from january 2021 there were two states that had them. Now there are 17 states. And we are not finished with that work. That is one way. Another, we just talked about, is how to better align or move systems or how to get the local workforce boards, state workforce systems. We just had a conference were over 400 workforce leaders came together to hear about our vision for how we need the work horse needs of the words and jobs being traded. Secretary cardona is very dedicated to making sure the educational system will illes her role in it. We are talking about all kinds of collaborations that can work to make the system work for the things we have been talking about here today. Thank you so much, and i yield back, madam chair. You are recognized for 5 minutes. Thank you, madam chairwoman. Inc. You missed trent three as we begin reauthorization of this congress. I am grateful that we are able to process some of the progress that has been made, or lack thereof, over the past few years. The percent of ablebodied adults are not engaged in the workforce. Every time im in the district, i hear more and more from employers that they are looking for workers. They are looking for employees. You more than anyone else have had a front row seat in the failures of the administration to reach our full workforce potential. So im going to need you to answer for some of those problems for me and those can ditch you its back home. There are accountability provisions that have not been implemented as congress intended. Under the departments regulation, its agreedupon performance by 50 and still be considered a success. To put this in context with the state of californias agreed upon level of performance, if just 39 of participants are employed in the second order after exiting the program, d. O. L. Would consider that a performance success. What grade with 39 be in school . Thank you very much, congresswoman, for that question. I do believe that we have to support Training Programs, but also hold them accountable. Make sure that, for example, they are actually providing training for miss su, what grade is 39 . The letter grade for 39 would be in aft. Arent we setting the bar too low when we say that 39 performance is considered a success . Yes or no . Is that setting the bar too low . I am not familiar with that exact metric that you are talking about, or how it is that. For example, if you are telling me that we are not in our implementation, we are complying with what congress says, that is something i would take very seriously. I pledge full fidelity to the law. Thank you. In october 2022, the whd posted a notice rescinding and replacing trumps independent contractor rule. We have heard some of that today. In its place, the d. O. L. Proposed a six Factor Economic realities test to determine whether a worker is economically dependent on a company under a totality of the circle dances. In essence, saying that if they are economically dependent, they have to be employees and not under a 1099. Shouldnt the American People have the freedom and opportunity to decide what work opportunity is best for them . So the proposed rule by the department of labor does adopt a multifactor test. Miss su, i dont have much time. I understand its a multifactor test. Let me give you a real life sample. So, i was a stayathome mom for 5 years. And during that time, i was an independent contractor under a 1099. I was only operating under that model with one entity. So under these definitions, i wouldve been qualified as economically dependent, and under the rule proposed by d. O. L. , unable to participate in the work horse under that model. That doesnt seem very american to me under our terms of freedom to decide for ourselves what is best for us and our families. In fact, if the d. O. L. Rule had been in place when i was a stayathome mom, i would have chosen not to engage in the workforce as an employee. Will you commit to protecting the independent contractor rule for people like me . Congresswoman, i certainly want to restate that bona fide independent contractors will always have a place in our economy, should have a place in the economy, and play a very Important Role. Will you turn away from the proposed rule . It is not six factors that we invented. It is factors that are based on decades do you support the Trump Administration era rule . We rescinded that rule as inconsistent i would encourage you to continue to turn away from efforts to undermined the independent contractor opportunities for americans citizens. One other things i want to ask you within my limited time is, you have said as passed by this body, you want to do only what this body intends you to do. We havent ever passed a bill yet taking away opportunities for independent contractors, yet your agency is implementing such a provision by rule. Is that correct . A rule is not intended did Congress Pass a bill on that . No, they did not. Its our job to enforce the fair labor standards act. The rule that we have proposed is consistent with decades of federal case law interpreting yet it was overturned, correct . Our rule is a notice. Its not a final notice yet, so it has not been overturned. It is a rule that miss su. I would ask that you answer the congresswomans question in writing. Thank you very much. Thank you, madam chair. First, i would like to introduce some letters of support from businesses referred to by my colleague, representative paul. Thank you. Secretary su, id like to apologize for the tone and tenor of this hearing. I worry that we lose many great candidates for Public Office who simply see this kind of thing on television and are not willing to put their name up for this kind of questioning. I truly believe that americans want to see more stability and decent the from their elected officials, but unfortunately, i dont think we seen a whole lot of that here today. But i do want to step back a moment and talk a little bit about this joint employer or independent contractor rule. Theres been a lot of questioning and not a lot of opportunity for you to complete an answer. Am i correct, first of all, that much of the case law that you refer to arose from the fact that the independent contractor classification was often being abused by employers in order to avoid payroll taxes, benefits, or other things . Thank you so much for that question and for reminding us that the reason there is a rule is that misclassification now, this is not about ending bona fide independent contracting. It is about making sure that everybody plays by the same set of rules. When someone should be an employee, and therefore enjoy a centuries worth of labor law protections basic minimum wage, overtime, Unemployment Insurance safety net, Workers Compensation that they do get that. Thats a long way of saying, yes. It has been litigation about this, and that has created a body of case law about what the right test should be. When theres abuse of the independent contractor classification, its actually to the detriment of American Workers, employees, or people who should be treated as employees entitled to the benefits of that classification. Correct . That is absolutely correct. So there was reference made to your family owning a franchise business when you were growing up, so i assume from that that you have respect for the franchise model as a way for people to get started in business . Yes. Again, this is not an abstract issue for me. Ive heard directly from franchisors about this that it is a way that individuals, immigrant communities get a toehold into the middle class, and that is the story of my family. All right. Thank you. With regards to joint employer related issues, there seems to be some confusion, at least among the questioners today, about who created that rule that is being objected to. Am i correct that it was a rule put forth by the nlrb . Yes. There is another entire separate set of laws and rules that fall under the National Relations board. And the nlrb is a separate and independent agency from the department of labor, is that correct . Absolutely. Yes. So this joint employer rule is not something thats on the department of labors regulatory agenda. That is correct. And as such, is something that does not fall under your jurisdiction as secretary of labor, correct . That is correct. Is it true that the only reason the department of labor had to action to rescind the rule was because a higher court instructed to do so. Yes, thank you very much, congresswoman. One conversation we were having about the independent contractor rule, the other thing that you are talking about is, there was a joint employer rule of the Prior Administration that we had to resend because a court felt that it was out of step with the law. When you say the Prior Administration, you mean the Trump Administration created a rule that a federal court determined was not a valid rule. Is that correct . And instructed the department of labor to resend that . I dont remember if there was specific instruction, but we would not keep a rule in place that was not in compliance with federal law. Thank you very much. With that, i yield back. Thank you. You win the prize for today. You are recognized for 5 minutes. Thank you, madam chair. Earlier, you said that you had no hand in the writing of the ab 5 rule in california, correct . Correct, congressman. No input, no advice . I dont remember specifically about that particular rule, but i will say that in my role in State Government in the executive branch as an appointee of the governor in california, we would sometimes be asked for Technical Assistance on implementation. How would this be implemented . Its the same thing that ive seen here at the federal level. And then you said also i found it remarkable to hear that, and to hear this as well, because where i come from in the state of missouri, our directors, our department heads, every agency had is actively involved in any legislative process that their department is going to have to deal with. And so to not provide counsel do not provide input, would be negligent for that department head. Right. I think if you are referring to Technical Assistance, how would you implement this, i think the question that was asked is, that i hope to write the law. And i do so you did have Technical Assistance in writing the law . We generally asked for Technical Assistance for laws. You said that you would not endorse or support taking that law nationwide. Is that correct . Would you support the rules of ab 5 , to go from a California Law to a nationwide law. I certainly havent done that, congressman. And you wont do that . When putting together a rule about independent contractor versus employee status, the department of labor under my leadership and that of former secretary marty walsh, we were explicit, because we are governed by what the law allows. We could not do that. Im going to move on. People in my state want to know as well, we have a very well functioning system for Workers Compensation on a state level. There is a credible fear that there will be rules changed from your department that would impact states and their ability to handle Workers Compensation insurance or to possibly nationalize it. Can you say today that you will not make the rule changes to Workers Compensation or try to nationalize it . Thank you very much for that question and the opportunity to talk a little bit about what we have under the department of labor. We have an office of Workers Compensation program, but it ministers federal programs. Would you collaborate with the states at various times. One of the things i said when i came in was, instead of having individuals who both would be covered by a state Workers Compensation federal and try to navigate those systems, we should do our best to work with state systems to its my hope that you leave the states alone and let them do what they do better. Let me say this im really glad to hear that ab 5 is not going to go nationwide. And the reason is, it was clearly disastrous for the state of california. And i say that as someone who, in the state of missouri, we received a lot of employees and workers as a result of that disastrous law, and i want to. 1 out to you. This is an individual, her name is. She owns and operates a trucking company. She did in california. Managed her own time, all of her own benefits, everything was her own decision. And apparently to that rule, was not smart enough to know what is good for her. At the end of the day, she had the choice give up her company, or go work for somebody else as a w2 employee. She chose to leave california and moved to gods country, missouri. Im glad to have her as a citizen, but it you know, a gentleman from california i will turn my remainder of my time over to him. With just a few seconds i have here, i want to give you a chance to revisit your testimony from our last exchange about prop 22, which was passed by almost 60 of california voters to say we want uber drivers, door dash drivers to be able to be independent workers. You were secretary of labor as the time this past, and your testimony is that you do not remember how you voted. You want to make any connection to that testimony . There are a lot of important issues in california. I am no longer in the government there. But certainly, as the acting secretary of labor, it is my job to work with allstate, and i would be very you stand by your statement that you do not remember how you voted on that proposition . What im saying is, im very eager to work with you on im glad about that, but i didnt ask you about that. Thank you very much. Thank you. Ms. Hayes, you are recognized for 5 minutes. Thank you. Thank you, acting secretary su, for your testimony before us today. I hear from constituents in every sector of the economy about impending work horse shortages. We need more teachers, farmworkers, and engineers. I also want to thank you for your comments earlier about working with the department of education on teacher apprenticeships and the teaching workforce. There is a dire need in that area. In the 117th congress, democrats invested heavily in infrastructure, energy, and manufacturing to address supply chain issues. We still need to train workers to perform critical jobs in these sectors. Theres a great need for a skilled workforce. In connecticut, more than 100,000 skilled jobs remain unfilled. Resources like the American Job Centers, which offer Free Services through oneonone career counseling, and employment placement, are building the pipeline of workers. The 19 connecticut American Job Centers, including four located in my district, serve 90,000 people across the state and work with 3000 employers to train workers, post jobs, and higher every year. However, theres more work to be done to close a workforce gap. It is estimated that the u. S. Spends about 500 million a year on individual training accounts, serving about 220,000 adult and dislocated workers nationwide. Partnering with employers is a key strategy to ensure that Workplace Training initiatives and American Job Centers match the needs of the region. Acting secretary su, how can congress scale of our investments in Training Programs such as career counseling, American Job Centers, and other employer programs. And additionally, what has the division done to foster more Training Programs . Think you so much for the question. As you know, it is a very important federal investment in creating a high functioning, reliable Workforce Development system that trains people in their communities for the jobs that are there, and because of the investments of this body and this administration, working in conjunction with the Biden Administration, jobs that are actually coming. We take that obligation very seriously, to work with the states, to work with cities. Some of the most effective Training Programs are local. They are developed by employers, and their partners. They can be unions, Community Based organizations, training centers, so that people can get jobs in the communities. They dont have to leave their communities in order to find good work that gives him a pathway to the middle class. And so we have made investments, specifically in industries where we see challenges recruiting and training a skilled workforce, and also in industries that are growing as a result of the bipartisan infrastructure law, the Inflation Reduction Act, and those kinds of investments. Thank you. I am also very pleased to see it includes robust funding for strengthening Community College programs that build capacity in the workforce. Will often overlook Community Colleges as part of Workforce Development. In my district, the Community College where i am a graduate of partners with northwest regional Investment Board in the greater waterbury area to train qualified adult and dislocated workers and various programs, including manufacturing, childcare, paralegal services, horticulture. Can you talk about how the department and congress can partner to boost and strengthen Community College programs as part of the Workforce Development pipeline . Yes. Community colleges play an incredibly Important Role. They are partners in training partnerships. They are one of the partners that helps to provide whether its a preApprenticeship Program that helps to prepare someone for for the workforce, for a workforce Apprenticeship Program in their community. Whether its somebody who wants to upscale and change jobs, change industries, improve their salary or wages, coming to the Community College is one way to do that, and that is why we do have the strength of the Community College grant, where we have put out about 135 million into various Community Colleges to allow them to play that role in ensuring they are tied into in demand jobs where their students are from. Thank you for that. I so appreciate that, because we all know the pathway to success looks very different for everyone. For some, its Workforce Development, but all of those are equally as important. Thank you for your commitment to those things and also committing people to work and doing that safely. I appreciate your testimony today. I yield back. Mr. Kiley, you are recognized for 5 minutes. We are almost done. Do you accept any responsibility for the 32 million in unemployment fraud that occurred on your watch in california . Thank you very much for that, congressman. I certainly know that i and many of my other colleagues and others who sat in the same position that i did when the pandemic hit wish that we had had a system that was capable of meeting the need. That is why in the time i have been deputy secretary, i have been really focused on helping to support im sorry. I have to stop you, lets focus on the question that is asked. You accept any responsibility for the unemployment fraud in california . I think a system that julie delivers in times of crisis should be the goal of everybody, and californias system you accept any responsibility for the unemployment fraud that occurred in california . Let me answer this way, congressman, just so we are clear about exactly what happened. Over 95 of the fraud that occurred in california this is consistent with the California Country happened i will stipulate that there were things that were beyond your control. What im asking is, do you accept any responsibility for the appointment fraud that occurred in california . The state auditor said that the reason for the fraud that occurred in that program was two things one is the completely unprecedented spike in claims, and the second was that the pandemic unEmployment Assistance Program, in its design, did not have the same safeguards that Unemployment Insurance has. It was designed for a group of individuals who are not you are quoting the state auditor which i happen to have right here. Despite repeated warnings, edd did not bolster its fraud detection efforts until month into the pandemic. Now you in your testimony, in the senate, you said that as soon as we knew that there was fraud happening, i shut the front door to that broad. Its what you said. That was your testimony. As soon as i knew that there was fraud happening, i shut the front door to that broad. And yet, the very independent audit reports that you just cited says exactly the opposite. Thank you, congressman. There were two reports. What you said i was talking about one of the things that was built into the pandemic on Employment Assistance Program was automatic backdating, meaning that whenever somebody applied im aware you made changes. But is this report wrong . That despite repeated warnings, they did not bolster fraud detection under your efforts . We stopped in california the automatic backdating that meant that somebody who applied i understand, but im not asking about that. We have another statement here from the democrat who chaired the accountability and review committee. She said there were simple and obvious steps that were implemented across the country that you did not implement, and you in particular have done not a good job in running the department. As a result, has listed billions of dollars and created hardy for millions of california. Was she wrong about that . To be clear, congressman, i did not run the edd. Several agencies fell under my purview, and i did take responsibility for our need you know, there were desperate californians who are very hard hit by closures, the loss of their jobs, and relied on unemployment. So you do take responsibility for some of the fraud . I do. The system did not deliver in ways we would have hoped it would deliver. But the fraud, as the auditor found, was a result of unprecedented spike in claims. I am not criticizing. I think that any kind of fraud, abuse there is no place in the system for any of that. The fact that that occurred led to steps that we had to take to shut down fraud, which also caused delays in eligible individuals getting their is or anything you wouldve done differently . In the time ive been in this role now, ive been very focused in creating a system that is working on the next crisis. 32 billion. Huge sum of money that we lost and we are still paying the price for that. Is there anything you wouldve done differently a secretary to stop that from happening . The system needed to work when people needed it, and there were people who got the benefits they needed to help them stay in their homes and help them keep food on the table. It helped to support the economic recovery that we have seen i am out of time here, but i do want to look back and just note that we have a nominee here who, 32 billion is lost. The state auditor found it was because of the performance of their department, and still cant tell us one thing she wouldve done differently. Thank you, mr. Kiley. Mrs. Stevens, you are recognized for 5 minutes. Missed su, its so good to see you, and i just want to clarify a couple of things briefly. Under your tenure at the department of labor as the deputy secretary, i am aware that 4600 new registered Apprenticeship Programs with 11,000 new employers partnering on or adopting regional apprenticeships have occurred. You worked with the former labor secretary, marvin walsh, will President Biden accomplish the fastest jobs recovery in nearly 40 years a record 13. 1 million jobs created since President Biden took office, including 800,000 manufacturing jobs. And this is something, in my home state of michigan, that we are feeling in our homes. We have a record low unemployment. And so madam, i would like to salute you and thank you for your leadership of a very Critical Agency during an unbelievable, unprecedented time in our nations history. Not thinking about this unemployment issue, Insurance Fraud issue in california, the first is that the pandemic era fraud was obviously widespread. You can compare rates across a multitude of states, from rhode island, nevada, new york, tennessee, south carolina, massachusetts. The second is that california is a huge state. We can fit multiple states within california or west of the mississippi. We forget how this country was created. And in process, one in five of all unappointed claims in the country. Is that right . Thank you so much for that. Because it is a large state, about one in five claims about the entire country even having that, the fraud rate in our system was less than that of about a dozen states. That is because the measures that we took to stop the fraud when we saw that it was happening. Isnt it true that 98 to 95 of the fraud in california was not from the regular insurance from your administered, but actually from the specifically created pandemic on Employment Assistance Program, and the subsequent audits prove this to be the case . That is absolutely the case. Isnt it true that the auditor found that no directives or decisions that you may have contributed to the fraud that attacked californias unemployment system . That is true, too. To be clear, congress created that program. It was bipartisan and the country was dealing with an unprecedented virus. There was unanimous consent that was put forward by a president who is currently under indictment, i believe, or soon to be. And so it was created by the cares act. He signed it, and acting secretary su, isnt it also true that when measured by timely payment of benefits to eligible individuals, actually getting benefits to people who needed them and should have received them, a study by the Century Foundation found that california was second in the nation by doing this . The mac yes. Thats true. We lived through a whopper with covid19. Whats happened is, under President Biden, on inflation reject an act, a chips and science law, and infrastructure law people are back to work. We have spent some money. We have seen 400 billion of capital contributions coming as a result. We are training at record speed. I am from the state with the largest number of first robotic teams. I cant wait to bring you when you get confirmed to see these robotics teams, because as the founder of the bipartisan women and stem caucus, leadership of the top matters. Julie sus Leadership Matters. Its going to matter a lot to my district in Oakland County that is innovating, manufacturing, and leading the way through a multitude of transformations in our automotive sector. And so i really want to thank you for being here today. I want to thank you for what youve already accomplished at the department of labor, and i cannot wait to see what is next. Thank you. I yield back. Mr. Moran is recognized. Acting secretary su, you just heard one of my colleagues say that Leadership Matters and transparency is a large part of leadership, would you agree with that . You have to meet with your subordinates, and you have to meet with those that you oversee and he provides to ask tough questions sometimes and to get direct answers. Is that true . That is true. You expect to get clear and precise answers in return . Yes, sir. When you ask those tough questions, you need to hear those answers, whether they are tough to give or not. Is that true . Yes. Would you agree with me today that this committee has oversight responsibility over the functions you perform and we are working on behalf of the americans who ask those tough questions . Yes. Im curious, why have you worked so hard today to avoid giving direct answers to the questions of this committee . Im certainly trying to not avoid questions. When you ask questions here, i expect people to give me context so that i can understand with accuracy what the answer is. Are you saying that mr. Kileys questions earlier were out of context, or werent clear to you . Ive heard a number of my colleagues ask a lot of questions today, and you artfully avoided answering most of them. Congressman, im sorry it appears that way. I do think the oversight rule is important, and i think that answering questions is important, and do my very best to do that. I dont think every answer comes down to a yes or no. For the remainder of this hearing, you can give good, direct answers to tough questions . I been trying to do that the whole time ive been hitting here. Can i get your commitment . Yes, i am committed to doing that. Will determine remaining time over to mr. Kiley and i expect that you live up to that. Thank you, thank you. Now that we have that commitment, let me try again. Did you vote for prop 22 in california, yes or no . Congressman, im sitting before you today to talk about the department of labor. You are asking me about a boat i took in at a time where we you know, we have ballot votes in this country. I am not trying to say one way or the other. I am just saying i offered a little while ago to say i am happy and eager to work with you on the many issues that you raised that you are saying californians continue to face. Excuse me. This is an oversight hearing. I think we are here to judge what issues are then you refused the clearest yes or no question that you could possibly give an answer to. You want to try one more time . Point of order. Youve answered the question i also want to clarify because im a person of my word. I did not say you would always get yes or no questions. I said at the very beginning, we are very deliberate. I asked is if you are planning to do any changes to the joint rule. It is not on our agenda to. Did you commit to anything . This is why, what im saying is, i commit to following all the rules of rulemaking. I pledge to you that we will do it under my tenure in leadership at the department of labor. Im not able to tell you with certain everything thats going to happen. Your confirmation hearing, senator johnson, he said and ask you, was it commuted to the white house . This was a major problem. And your answer was, you didnt know the answer to the question. You didnt know if that was communicated to the white house. What the problem was. Do you remember now whether you did that prior to this year . Fryer . I do not know. I said that we will have there is an Interagency Task force the white house put together and for the department of labor in charge of. It is a very Important Role, we are in conversations, in this country. Fernandez, im sorry thank you, so much so you know, i do want to emphasize this point of the manner in which President Biden, the democratic caucus, even going back to the c. A. R. E. S. Act, as you pointed out, the bipartisan manner, creating so many jobs. But they have restored with workers. It is also the quality of the jobs and whether the workers are going to receive the benefits, the overtime in those things that are key so that they can also all prosper. There is a difference, because they stand with a corporation. Verses are you standing with the workers. And in many ways, it sounds to me like when you are looking at the independent contractor issue , it is about who you are going to stand with. A single worker is trying to make sure the rights are protected. Making sure we are enforcing the labor laws that was written and given to us, and that we have to investigate cases. Workers feel safe, reporting violations to us, and where we find them, we will enforce the law including issuing citations and penalties to employers where appropriate. The department of labor is there to serve as the backstop because individual workers who might be stiff for overtime who might be placed in an independent contractor position, they would need somebody to be on their side. And in that sense, the department of labor should be on their side. This is not a lot of questions, round of the place. Anchorages. He brings it in californias abc test. It does not. Explicitly saying we cannot, will not. It is not the law of the land. We are looking to have you be the secretary of the u. S. Department of labor. But what i understand, the posed rule, hardly anyone had much criticism, even groups that voiced concerns in the past. Active secretary, the True Department of labor already stated it does not have the authority under the fl selle to implement the abc test. And yes or no, believe in separation of powers. And instead, only implements rules and consistent. And, weve heard all of this fear mongering about what we do and what we do around 85. What we talk about is the United States apartment of labor but what you did, in california, did you serve in the California State Legislature . And you actually pass the law in california . It was the california legislature. I was the secretary of labor. As the secretary, what was your job and your requirements to do, once the Legislature Passed the law . Thank you very much, congresswoman. I oversight agencies including those that were charged with enforcing laws that were passed by the legislature. Our jobs, both as labor secretary in california and of the agencies that oversaw was to enforce the law. What we should be as you now, i think youve already said, similar to the manner in which you honored your obligation and note the constitution in california to carry out the laws. Are you committed to carry out the laws and honor the obligation and a host of the constitution to carry out the United States laws regarding labor . 100 . Thank you very much for your dedication and service. Service is an act of love because it requires so much and you have taken a lot and have been so gracious and diplomatic and answering the questions today. I think you, and i yield. Thank you. We recognize mr. Goods for five minutes. Thank you, madam chairman. Madam secretary, do you think people should be able to exercise religious freedoms at work . I do. What limits would you place on employees . Okay. Youre asking me something that is outside of my area of expertise. But i do believe in religious freedom. You would not place any limits on any exercises of rights . I do not know if you are asking about something specific with the department of labor or what they have done, i want to know if you have a limits on her right to practice religious freedom at work by protected by the First Amendment. Thank you. If you are referring to a rule of our agency under the office of federal contract compliance programs, what we did there, im sorry. Do you think faithbased organizations should be able to operate there as well . So, let me answer this way. The department is committed to protecting them. On behalf of all american. And nobody should have to choose between earning a living and pass this thing religious good. What limits would you place estate his organization to practice rights . Again, you are asking about ccp, and since you referenced it, the department came out, the Trump Administrations rule on protecting the organizations rights as it hires specific is obviously what we are referencing as you are aware of it. So do you think employers and their First Amendment rights applies to the ability higher for a faithbased organization . Thank you. The exemption is still in place. What we did in rescinding a rule of a private administration was restore the ccps longstanding practice, which is related to this test of religious exemption. But, there is already a law in place that prohibits discrimination, obviously, legally prohibited discrimination. But the faithbased organizations, they should have the right to practice their faith based religious beliefs and what the role has done is try to make it easier for them to be sued on the basis of hiring and firing would compromise deeply had religious police. And with that exercise the ability to hire . The religious exemption is in place. The agencies charged and enforcing authorities to protect workers from discrimination and we will faithfully apply the law on both of those areas. D. O. L. Recently egregiously rescinded a rule that impacts the ability to participate in federal contracts unless they violate beliefs that are protected. What assurances can you give you will protect the religious freedoms including the First Amendment rights and organizations that on federal contracts . So, the religious exemption is still in place. I want to be very clear about that. Lets move on to something you wrote an article in the seattle journal for social injustice which you said the very definition of a corporation is created to make maximum income and designed to insulate individuals who profit from liability for the accident and steve seems to perpetuate economic injustice. And, all of the companies in which you have Enforcement Authority are instruments of economic injustice. Do you believe that . Think. I think that was a transcript from a speech, maybe. I needed broader context. I will say and will continue to and have for many decades working with corporations of all sizes. Do you think companies are inherently unjust . I do not believe that. How would you characterize the view of the corporation. I think corporations play an Important Role. Corporations to that extent, with the department of labor does, it is job creators. Small businesses, large businesses. I want to read something that you said. You said latino workers view asians generally not as friends or even strangers but as the enemy. Is very source of the daily subjugation. What did you mean by that . Let me say it again. Latino workers view asians generally not as friends or even strangers but as the enemy, a very source of the daily subjugation. So, you think latino workers view asians as enemies and the source of the daily subjugation . I want to do my best with that, congressman. You believe that asians generally latino workers view asians not as friends or strangers but as enemies, the very source of the daily subjugation. I believe what i was talking about, congressman, this was long before i came into the government. This is when i worked at the nonprofit organization, representing workers. I described the very real experience i do not believe it as a general matter. Thank you. I yield, my time has expired. I would encourage you to answer his question in writing. Thank you very much mr. Scott. The floor would like to im sorry, mr. Vasey were recognized for five minutes. Thank you, chairwoman. Thank you, madam secretary. Thank you for coming northwest indiana to my district. The experience wears weary of to join the first lady and joe biden in college and it was because of the investment of the ministration specifically in infrastructure and Renewable Energies that students were able to participate and be able to create cells. I want to give you an opportunity to talk you about the d. O. L. And the administrations investment in jobs. Thank you for joining us and if you could share about that with me i would racially appreciated. , combines a resource of the community. To connect, employers with jobs, and the need for skilled workers, to education positions, union jobs, actual Training Programs, the pools from the community. Including in a very intentional way, people who are normally left out of good jobs if we do not think holistically about who we recruit and who we train. And that is a model for what we have been doing so dies in at the d. O. L. And something that d. O. L. Has been committed to if i am confirmed that secretary which is to align all of the pieces of the system, to meet Employer Needs and to meet the desire of jobseekers and people who are in the labor market seeking skills for these jobs. It was a fantastic demonstration, also, of how jobs in advanced benefactor, like some of the new Clean Energy Work that is being developed is actually creating multiple opportunities, not just for things, semiconductors, things that are created, but actual people to find their way the middle class. I just want to take a minute and talk about in the very beginning of the opening of the meeting, it was mentioned about the administration and unions. This is the strongest administration for union labor in the middle class, uplifting the middle class that we have seen in history. That is probably why its being attacked. So when we go for it i think it is important that it is important to realize that union wages of all wages throughout the day and my question vienna. Its finally important. And, the infrastructure bill, and there, it includes union labor, twisting up america on the last. That is why i am in congress, and hopefully, that is why the administration fighting for the middleclass jobs is fighting to make sure that we are providing a pathway for good wages, safe work environments, health insurance, good pension. And if we can to do that, america will be better off. I know that my district will do that. I ask you to keep fighting for all workers, and keep in mind, that labor lets all wages and bones. And i thank you for your. Ranking. I now recognize your genes for five minutes. Thank you, madam chairwoman. Secretary, thank you for being here today, im sure that these proceedings are exhausting. I was a pilot in the army and i remember my oral examinations. I appreciate you being here. I have some very important questions from my district. Franchising is one of the surest ways for americans to achieve the American Dream. The walking recipient and results of the American Dream, my father came up from the gym herself, with a truck, trailer no excuses, something that you was able to achieve that he didnt think was possible. Able to pass a business to his family now, and automotive logistics. And they were able to achieve a Better Future for themselves and for their families. But there is growing concerns that one of my new neighbors amongst them, in shelby township, a franchise owner, based upon what she is hearing, the joint employer policies coming from the d. O. L. And the Biden Administration as a whole will disrupt not just your Business Model but the franchising Business Model. The pathway to prosperity. They will be disrupted. She asked me to realize to them, that she has the right to fully own and run her business. She has mortgaged and sacrificed for it and she need your help in protecting the American Dream. The policies run contrary to that. If these policies are not. Specific joint employer policies. She was fearing that her business was shut down or that she will see operational control to the fed. I would like to know, so i can tell her, why does it seem so off often, that the ministration is adversarial to businesses. The d. O. L. In particular, casting entrepreneurs aside . Congress , thank you so much. You can tell her that for me, my family also owned a franchisee business. My friendships cooked burgers as an immigrant. He exchanged coins in a casino. My parents owned a franchisee business and just as you described and help them move from insecurity to security. Its why my parents were able to pay for both my sister and yes. And so, given your personal experience, can you commit to not no more additional rulemaking on joint employment . Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to have a discussion about these issues. Sometimes i think we talk past each other about things. There is nothing on our agenda. Given your experience in the fact that Business Owners are the pathway to the American Dream, can i have your community . You do, to work closely with Small Businesses to make sure what we are doing honors the struggle, the work. Im not answering that question directly only because whatever we do, it is inappropriate for me to say with certainty, there are lots of things and commitment to the American Dream is worthy of a direct answer given your families experience. The additional rulemaking. If i can take that back to her, for the commitment, you said that it is not on the agenda. If we continue forward, that would be great front maneuvers and franchisees all over the country depending on the Business Model to succeed. I do not have plans to do that. If i did i would have put it on the agenda. There is nothing on the agenda that would suggest we have a joint lawyer rule. What i think has been clarified, is that there are other agencies that are pursuant to the rule. Once you confirm it, there have been very little that the federal government have done to engender trust amongst the American People. I was looking for confirmation that you would at least leave that one alone so we can have some sort of stability as folks tries to retrieve the American Dream. It looks like we do not have that commitment, we will let the circle back later. Thank you for your time, madam secretary. Thank you, mr. James. Mr. Johnson, you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you very much. Secretary, it is important that Congress Continues to invest in Rural Communities such as my district. I served 24 parishes in total. Organizations in my district have benefited from the d. O. L. Programs like youth build. Since 2001, north george technical Community College in louisiana has coasted a highly Successful Program in a rural impoverished area and i am told that this program is an impressive degree or significant Completion Rate of 96 . That is above the average post Program Placement rate with many students choosing to go on to attend north george Community College to further their education. Unfortunately, this department did not award the program in the latest grant competition. And it is my understanding this department instead has award and grants to a number of new applicants, while many longstanding extensional programs were shut out. I am extremely disappointed with this outcome as are my constituents. Some of the feedback to the department provided on north shores application is that it did not do enough to promote green jobs and ensure postprogram employment will allow vince to opportunities to bargain and join a union. An increase equity in a apprenticeship for people of color and women. This is an odd conclusion because i am told that at least half of the programs participants are minorities and women. Acting secretary, why did the departments are pushing its own agenda items over the original intent of the program which is providing education, Workforce Development, and lies in the leadership skills were out of school youth and why did the department not prioritized proven performance metrics of successful longstanding programs just like the one in bogalusa . Thank you very much. I will say that, in general, the things that you said, they are consistent with how that i view the need we should put programs that actually prepare the bill in communities that include rurals community, that they might not always enjoy the investments or understand that government is there to support them. I agree that we should use datadriven move models. I do not have the specifics on the issue that you are asking about. I do know that we have a Workforce Opportunity Program in the grant, different from the youth build. But specifically, to invest in communities, recognizing there are specific that some of those needs have not always been that. And they are happy to make sure that you and they are aware, other Grant Programs that they have, i do not have the detail on exactly what the thing was in the program that you are talking about. That was the feedback that we received, it was about not being able to join a union or green initiatives. This Youth Build Program has been incredibly beneficial for my district since 2001. It is devastating that they were denied this year. I want to switch gears, the change in h qa adverse affect wage rates methodology will traumatically increase the reagan certain job classification. I believe this is probably the most detrimental rule that has had the state of louisiana and its agriculture in recent years and has created a firestorm throughout agriculture in the u. S. For example, in louisiana, workers that drive sugarcane cards would have the rage change from 30. 67 to 22 and 50 sevenths per hour. That is a ninehour increase in one year. The impacts of the sugarcane harvest drivers would cause farmers in my state an additional 37 million in additional wages. The impact is not specific to sugar. It is also to other communities in my district and across the nation. I must insist the impact of the march 30th 2023 h2 a wage rule of 100 million has been grossly underestimated and willows cause a severe hardship. Acting secretary, can you tell me if the department solicited meaningful input from the agriculture industry prior to promulgating the rule . Thank you very much. As you are referring to it, the h2 a program, one of the components, is to make sure that there is not an adverse effect on United States workers by using the program and that is what the adverse wage affect is what you are talking about refers to. As i said here, as a department, we are deliberative creation of any rules, and, we do engage with stakeholders, with invisible parties, to understand the impact of the rules to make sure we are taking into account the multiple perspectives and impacts and to make sure we get it right. Your claim to fame is based off of the survey that it shows low in participation. If you talk about the constituents, they would be putting farmers out of business in louisiana and can you tell me, how many producers in louisiana and the fifth conventional district provided feedback to you . We are going to have to let the acting secretary submit her answers to you in writing. All of us would like to know, the answers to those questions. Thank you. I would like to recognize Ranking Member, dr. Scott, for five minutes. Thank you. And, your life story is an inspiration. To some of us, anyway. Apparently not all. At the announcement of your nomination, it was mentioned that your mother came to the country on a cargo ship from china because she cannot afford the fair and later in her life she talked to the president of United States, who said that her daughter was going to be nominated as the secretary of the state department of labor. I mean, the career in between certainly is an inspiration. And, you maintain your composure and decorum, while many spend their time to explain what they would do as senators, which they are not, or challenge you, on what you have done to hurt job production, even after the administration that you belong to created more jobs than 28 months than any other has been able to do in a fouryear term. Now, the attached your credit, your character, but not the Record Number of jobs that you created for our country. Let me just say. The begin awarded, the independent contractor. A lot has been said about how it hurts independent contractors. But i think that you mentioned, if you are classified about an independent contractor for resident employees, you miss out on the employment conversation, workers conversations, minimum wage and overtime. You are so working out, missing out on pension attitudes and other employees. So, the employee has disadvantages and being misclassified. But the employer also benefits with of the mesh classification because they do not have to play Social Security taxes and they save a lot of money on the others giving unfair competition to those that compete in classified areas. You talked about the joint employment rule. The only thing that franchisees have to do, not by any joint employment rule. They may be responsible for what theyve done, escaping through lax joint employment rules, although that is not on the agenda. That should be clarified. Can you say a word about why you need money for osha inspections . Thank you for that question. Ranking member scott. So, osha does workplace investigations to ensure that they are healthy and every worker goes to work at the beginning of the day returns home. In 2021 there were over 5000 working people lost their lives on the job. And at least 2 million who had workrelated nonfatal injuries. These are, the are entirely preventable. And we should be doing everything we can to make sure that workers do not have to work under unsafe conditions. If you get if you get the allocation that you for western, you will be able to investigate. You could be able to visit each business once every 100 years . If you get the increase on the allocation . Can you say a word about what you are looking for for youth employment, particularly, disconnected youth . Thank you so much for that question. As we talked about here today, young people have tremendous potential to benefit from the robust economic recovery that weve had and the fact that a large number of jobs will be created and they will not require a college degree. So, we have investments in the youth across our workforce system. Everything from apprentices programs, ships, Youth Programs that are going to make sure that young people understand that in this historic moment, we want them also to benefit. A comment was made about discrimination, and federal employment. Some employers were to be able to discriminate and have a policy and not hiring people of certain religions. And they still got a federal contract. I would hope that you do everything you could to avoid that. And, you say, just a word, about why it is important to increase sanctions for unfair labor practices . Thank you very much. We talked about child labor here today. What we are seeing in situations where you have really egregious exploitations of the young people, the penalties that we were able to assess in that particular case had over 100 young people approaching 70 years old was about 1. 5 million. Now, widely considered, not to have been enough to deter those violations. We are happy to be working with and responding to requests for Technical Assistance from congress about what increased penalties might look like. Unfair labor practices and organizing . That is within the purview of the National Relations board which is a separate body from the d. O. L. We do not have rules about that particular issue. Thank you, madam chair. Thank you for your testimony. And, madam chair, can i introduce for the record, a several common that has been made, the youth in the child labor we sent a letter to you a few days ago about it, to schedule a hearing on child labor abuses. And, that was related to see a colleague from indiana to mention this was an issue. An i maybe we can Work Together to hearing on that. You wish to enter the letter into the record . Again, yes. Without objections, we will do that. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] i would like to again thank our witn i would like to thank our witness for taking the time to testify before the subcommittee today. I made several comments asking that you respond to questions when people had run out of time, and overtime, and, sometimes, i think your stuff is probably taking notes about it. Our staff is taking notes. So i would appreciate it very much if we could get a timely response to those questions that have been asked but not answered today in the subcommittee meeting so that we will try to compile something. But, we appreciate the commitments that were made today, in which we will certainly follow up on. Without objection, there being no further business, the committee stands adjourned for the day. [ the meeting is on an adjourned recess. ] a look at ways fraud and abuse from the federal Welfare Program for needy programs. It provides cash assistance to low income families on a focus to getting recipients back to work. It is executed by the state department. This subcommittee hearing is about two hours long. Lowincoe families with a focus on getting recipients back to work. Though it is suddenly find it is executed by the states. The house ways and means a subcommittee hearing is about two hours. [inaudible conversations] the committee will come to committee will come to order. I will make to welcome everyone today. The welfare subcommittee. The title is where is all the welfare money going, lifting americans out of poverty. My name is daren millard. Covering northwest parts of the state