Transcripts For CSPAN3 Aubrey 20240704

To. Our events with Aubrey Gordon and lindy west. As we get underway, i would like to acknowledge that our institution stands on the unceded traditional territory of the coast salish people, particularly the duwamish. We thank them for our continuing use of the Natural Resources of their ancestral homeland. Were very excited that you could join us tonight whether here in this sold out hall or virtually our presentation will run for about 60 minutes, including q a. And when we get to q a portion of the event you may ask your question using this qr code, some questions have already been coming in, which is fantastic. Well try to get to as many of them as we can, but you can help by keeping your question. Town hall is adding new events podcasts every day. Tomorrow, our global rhythms Concert Series continues with the seattle balkan folk punk metal band culture shock. If you come early, you can get balkan food and drinks in the lobby with food vendor baked in bosnia. Yeah. And next week, local artist marina dingus discusses of the African Diaspora with fagan of gage arts academy. You can visit our website to get and join our email list to get the latest updates as more programs added throughout the season. Town halls work is made possible through your support and the support of our sponsors as part of our arts and culture series. Event is sponsored by for Culture Arts Fund city of seattle arts and culture and Washington State arts. Town hall is also a member supported organization out to members who might be here with us this evening. And if you share town halls, a vision of a community strengthened by discussions of Civic Science and culture, where everyone has a voice . Please consider supporting us by donating or becoming a member. And lastly, if you already have a copy of aubreys book, you probably need one. So you may have noticed our table downstairs is with third place books where you can pick up a signed copy and we will also have a limited signing line here on the stage after the event. So if you have a copy of the book and you would like to join that signing line, were going to be accepting folks first who have accessible needs or who may have brought kids with them this evening and then if thats not you, youll just in your seats and well welcome folks section by section, up onto the stage for the signing line. There be a cut off at 10 p. M. , so we wont have time to get to everyone. But can also pick up your signed copy downstairs. If if you want to signed copy but dont end up having time for the signing line. All right. Onto what were here for. Aubrey gordon is an podcaster and working to combat antifa bias. She started writing as your fat friend in 2016 and wrote exclusively under the pseudonym for four years, illuminating the experience a fat people and urging greater compassion for people of all sizes. She cohosts my favorite maintenance phase. And the author of what we dont talk about when we talk about fat. Her work has been featured in lit hub, the New York Times, health, vox and where she is a regular columnist. Her new book, you just need to lose weight and 19 other myths about fat people hit the New York Times bestseller list and is a powerful tool for disrupting anti fatness wherever we encounter it. Lindy west is a former contributing opinion writer, the New York Times, and is the of actually. Also the New York Times best selling memoir shrill and the essay collection, the are coming. Her work has also appeared in this American Life the guardian, cosmopolitan, gq, vulture, jezebel and, others. She is the cofounder of the reproductive rights destigmatize campaign. Shout your abortion abortion. Lindy is a writer and executive producer on shrill. The hulu comedy adapted her memoir, and she cowrote produced the independent feature film thin skin. Aubrey gordon new book, you just need to lose weight and 19 other myths about fat people, is the subject of tonights talk. Please join me in welcoming Aubrey Gordon and lindy west. Hello. Am i on . No. Hello . Can you hear me . Is that working . Hello theres a scrunched up piece of orange paper in my seat. Do you think its a secret . Can we just blue blue . It says nothing. Youre not. This is not a clue. In national treasure. This isnt going to lead you to the Knights Templar treasure. This event is nonsense. Im out of here. I quit. Okay, so my first question is based on that, should we start a cult. Oh, no. No, guys, culture are always a bad idea. Come on. Fine fair. Sorry. Sorry. How are you doing . Im doing great. I feel like you. I were just backstage shooting the , and this is a real shock to the system. We sort of kept forgetting. There are people out here. I know. I know. And we said all the good stuff already backstage. So sorry. Give me a really boring celebrity gossip. I dont know enough famous people for that. How are you doing . House tour. Book tour. I mean listen. Tour is great. Aside from losing my voice at the one time in my life that that would be like you know the worst possible of my adult life being a podcaster to launch a book challenge level you cant talk. So i mean like first things first is like huge thanks to everyone who with that change of date, i am eternally. It it would have been a very disappointing event because i got to the point where i was like opening my mouth and just no sound, which is like like just like cryptic. Like, like just like dust. Yeah. I heard you. I think you posted something on. Yeah, i need a it was like i just want you guys to. Im not kidding. Oh, im so glad youre better. Im so. You were here. Im so glad you wrote book. Thank you. I, i was just backstage just before we came out. I was saying, how i am of talking about being now like. Yeah, i mean, like, im not tired of doing it in the fun way, but like the thing where the people, like, are mad at you or like ask you questions or want you to go on film are like, i just leave me or like they want to talk about the that the whale that its god, you know we, can talk about this later but yeah, yeah. And i was like, im so tired and im so glad that you wrote this perfect short, tense, horrid little book that i can just throw at people. And its got all the stuff. I mean, should i just start asking you questions . Because im sure you. Lets do it. Okay, well, thats because that started a segway into one of my questions. Great. So im just going to ask it, which is that youre such a good writer. Oh, thank you. Oh, my gosh. Its really i really mean that, like, you know, since forever, ive always, like, truly admired your craft and the way that you write it has so much clarity and authority, which is Something Like authority, especially, i feel like is is stripped from fat people and this really real insidious way and have always embodied that so effortlessly and i dont know if, you know, being anonymous for a while helped with that because people i mean because like, i mean, i guess yeah people just have less to less attraction like to tear you into little nothingness. But yeah, what i was going to say was, how do you write like that . Hold on. I i, i feel like my writing because its so powerful what you do and its so rare and important. And i feel like my, when i try to write about, like, bodies and especially my body and living in my body etc. , it just devolves into like crying and also so i get very angry and you stay in this place that is so selfassured and like authoritative. Im just like, is that difficult . How do you do that . So thats a kind question. And the softest of softballs. Hello. Thank you. Appreciate it. Why are you . Great. Explain like that. I mean, so i will say im currently trying to write something that is like lighter and funnier and i am having the same moment about your writing and about sam or rubys writing or im like, but how when you know when to use the caps, i dont know. You mean like just like, just always. Just always. You can take it out later. You can pull it back. My first draft is 100 caps lock and then i actually pick words to lowercase. I mean, i would say on the sort of writing that the last couple of books have been feel really informed for me from having worked as an organizer, which is like the amount of time for example, knocking on doors and talking to people about immigration that. Spend 785 to 80 of your time working through that persons nonsense garbage ideas and their own feelings about their own economic insecurity and their own sense of their waning cultural power and all kinds of stuff. Its like mostly youre there, like hold space for that person so that they can work their way through own like garbage beliefs, right . Like garbage beliefs. And this feels really similar to me where its like, yeah, you to write ten pages being like, i know its going to be really hard to be thin person. And then you get two pages where youre like, but also from people make like 22,000 less every year than you. So like. That parts good. But like, thats totally sounds really hard, right . Where youre like, i get it . And i mean it. And im like, i genuinely believe that. I feel like thats something that i space to do in writing, in a way that i dont. Well, its to do it in person, but its very generous of you but its very generous. And it also like very strategic, not like its a its effective probably because i feel like i up in this i mean, i say probably because like who . I dont know. How do you measure . Are we fixing anything . I dont know. But like i came up in this little internet generation where like when i was at like jezebel in 2012, we were like, what if we were never nice and we were just mad and we which is like, so good. And i dont think that its bad. I think that it is good. And it was empowering its own way, but did i do much beyond lots of people still make fun of me to this day for like you know it angry fat you know like i one thing you know i wasnt like fishing for compliments but angry lunatic high of what but i just mean. Like, i do think theres something maybe a little bit more proactive call about doing the harder more patient, more work of meeting people where they and and again like this book is full of real information and its not like you know the thing that its not just like fat people writing, theyre writing their fat feelings. Its which is also legitimate and important. You know, i, i would be unemployed without that, but then you really no stage, no crowd fat writing about their feelings. Yeah but its just like some validating and so powerful to to read. I mean, i just keep saying the same thing to you over and over again, but its so its, so good. Oh, i appreciate. And i also feel like, listen, i, uh, feel like i was talking to a friend the other day initially, this was about Weight Watchers and i was like, no, i think this is more accurate about. Lindys work. I know this is a wild were to get there. Im about to compare you to Weight Watchers ill take any attention attention all prizes good press. Oh, no. It was sort of like we were talking about like in your origin story whats radioactive spider that bit you and initially was like Weight Watchers and then i was like no i think it was being organizer in like 2008, 2009 work. Okay. 2008. Whats up, cat . Who is the ting ting. I was working on lgbtq sort of issues and kept seeing pieces from a guy whos come around the corner since. But dan savage seeing other i dont im not here to get it team. Im sure its fine and sincerely its fine i its like fine fine for all time it was fine. But seeing this sort of rhetoric ripple through, particularly gay mens communities was like, look at all the states that are most anti lgbt, look at their obesity rates where youre like, are you are or are you kidding me . Are you blaming homophobia on fat people . I am going to need you to map that out for me. And like, yes, of all fat people are famously were not mad at the gays. Were only best friends were there to help your weddings. But it was this moment where thats when you wrote hello, im fat, which is a piece that i. It is a piece that i think about and reference to this day because even then, having, you know marilyn one and having read shadow a tightrope and having read all of these incredible fat books, that was the time that i saw of that person in the public eye be like, hey, youre talking about me right now. And im like, right here. Like, im like across the cubicle like, what is going on . And it was one of the most incredible like i just remember sitting at my desk and reading and like, just crying and being like i got sick. Have its just a lot is happening like it it was like absolutely like a humongous human i guess like turning point in my own like you know how it showed as a fact. Like im not yeah im not kidding. Thats like a big, big, big thing for me. So you for writing. Oh, my god. That means means truly so much to me. I cant cant also this is all happening because lindy and i just met for the first time, like 45 minutes, you know, like this, like, can you believe that . So were just like, unlike you. I mean, it. And when you were when you were anonymous, but people knew that you, like, lived in the pnw, and i didnt know who you were. And i was like, what if shes. I know, but, like, undercover and she wont tell me or. I dont know. But you werent someone i knew. But we and then people would be. Is it lindy west . And id be like, i wish shes so smarter than me. She like did research and, looked at numbers. I a phenomenal. Know no i so i got that i got you i think the number one guess where people would be like who you are and its lily white so flattering. The other ones that i got were rock sand gay and i was like, nope. And the other one was melissa. And i was like, guys, if i was someone with a larger platform. Why would i like . I got this dream where i start from, like, i do this for free five years and then eventually, hey, thats so funny. Its no, i like it as well for you. I was like, lose a very big compliment and no, no, but yeah, i forget what were talking about. We forget. Oh yeah, we just met now. Yeah. When i wrote that i mean it really is like amazing. Think back to, uh, yeah, because it was very its the word like gonzo. So, like, it was very like, i mean, first of all, in those days, you to feed the blog all day, every day. So there was a what part of it that was just like economic. So i was like, im a get in trouble if i dont write a blog post. And then i was like, whats my mind . Im really at dan and. I was like, well, i guess this is what we do here. Um, and its like, you know, its flawed, but you can feel that its very in the moment. Like, its, yeah, it, its, yeah a lot. And i wouldnt write it the same way today, but like whatever caveat, whatever. But like its very much a turning point in my entire life. I mean, i feel like thats also of what made it hit home hard, at least for me, was just being like, this isnt someone who went away and prepped for the link douglas debates this is not someone who like you were like what the . Yeah, yeah. I havent even done my like fat politics homework yet. You know, i was truly just like a gal who was like, felt like at work because. Like, my my ripped boss was, like, carrying his bicycle around, being like. I saw a bunch of fat at, the fair, and it made me mad or whatever. And i was like, they must be homophobic. Oh, youre right youre right. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, i do think thats part of the like now theres, you know, the ecosystem didnt then where there was just like a whole of, of it happened to me. I, i fat true life. I were sizes once. Anyway, im was so glad. And then here we are. We are and let us hear. All right, let me see what else . Oh, okay. Heres a question i really want to know the answer to. Um, what did this is a very much like an interview question. Im very sorry, but what have you found to be the hardest lesson, this book for people to absorb like, are people the most resistant to believing thats a good question. Well, so ill say, uh, top of mind. I will say a real treat from this particular book to her has been a thing that i feel like im guessing you have experience infinitely more times than i have, which is i will show up on like like Something National level or Something Like multistate and then i will get a little wave of emails from people with names like scott and dave who are like, i you talking on this radio show, prove what are your sources . And im like, i wrote a book that has a lot of it really lays this stuff out man you should try to like but theres this really fascinating sort of like wave of like dudes like write your book again, but just for me. Youre going to email. No. I hear i would say. The one that feels like it has really stuck and folks have. Most of the folks that i have heard from have taken it really in stride. And other folks have been like, oh, is theres a whole chapter about sort of exploring the idea of internalized fatphobia, which is for folks who are sort of familiar with anti oppression work, internalized oppression, its like a really useful term for how members of a targeted group, how members of a marginalized come to do the work, their oppressors right . Its a super duper useful term for a really specific phenomenon. And it blows my mind. I see how people got here and im like, oh, what a big when people who are not fat and have not been fat in their lives. Talk about their internalized anti fatness or internalized fatphobia because im like, no because when youre a thin person then its just only antifan so sorry. Its just regular type. Like i wouldnt it be really weird to me if a straight person started talking to me about their internalized homophobia . Id be like. How did that can you make a diagram of how that happened . Because i feel confused that. One has been like a tough one for folks to take on because it feels something is being taken away from them or like their experience isnt being recognized and like, listen, it is a hard thing to have a body in this world. There is no question about that and weve got to be able to talk about things in precise enough terms that we can identify differing problem aims and solve each of those and see how they relate and see how they differ. And this is a place where its like really important to talk about like, yeah, man, if you are a straight size model who is used to being like airbrushed all the time and having people just talk about your body and being like she weighs £45 too heavy for this shoot or whatever. Like that is horror, and no one should have to go through that. And that is different than, say, making 22,000 less a year of your body size, right . Like those are different things. Theres not a worse one or a better one. We dont need to like rank them, but weve got to be able to talk about those two things as distinct but related phenomena. So to insert or okay, so related to that since body positivity as a term has failed or has sort of crashed and burned and been obliterated, like what do you have tips. Do you have one weird trick or how did i do . I dont want you to know. Doctors hate her. I mean, literally, they hate us saying its in the book you can read it. Its like not as a public figure. Its just how some patients like, yeah, no, but okay how do we. Heres how i wrote it because i dont trust my brain. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah. And then how do we simultaneously address the fact that body standards, beauty, culture, diet, whatever harm everyone while keeping the most marginalized bodies centered . Thats a good question, and i feel like there are as many answers that question are there as there are like fat activists, the world. Right. Like if you like kind of everyone give like a different yeah. Like a slightly different spin on the for me i feel like part of it is you have to tell the whole of how we got to where we are now right. You have to tell the whole story of the bmi being like, oh, it was a belgian who wanted to prove that belgium guys were the best. And so he was just like murs going to like a belgian guys. Like thats all were going to look at, right . Like you have to be able to and willing to the entire story of like this has been specifically in a way that pretends is that anyone who isnt a white dude doesnt exist, right . Like you have to be willing to tell whole story of like anti blackness is foundational to anti fatness. You have to tell the whole story of abel ism is foundational to anti right. Like if we cant and dont talk about those things and again use precise language. This is the thing i was talking about with a friend the other day that sort there has been this supplanting of, talking about instead of talking about anti fatness fatphobia if that is your term of choice with like talking about diet, culture and that strikes me as culture a useful term with a great deal of utility and a thing that we should all be able to like name identify. And there are times when we use diet culture to be like the biggest loser was totally culture and im like the biggest loser was abusing fat people on tv for entertainment. Thats a really different thing. Like, guys, were all hurt by diet culture, right . Like that. Not if youre one of the people on the tv running until you barf, right . Like thats like a different thats like a different thing. Are they still it . They were like a couple of years. I watched it for a column and then i was just like the whole time i was just like weeping it was like, why am i doing this . No job is worth well. But like it to me it seems that we got to be willing and able to do couple of things. One is be willing to do enough of our homework to be able to again, sort of tell the whole story, tell the whole story of fat activism dating back to the fat as like a queer collect div of fat jewish and black folks. Right . Weve got to be able to tell the whole story of. Jonny tilman and ann atwater and the many folks who sort of paved the way for fat activism and fat organizing. Weve got to be able to tell that whole rather than cultural story that seems like were invested in. Telling ourselves now is like fat started in 2009 really okay right like we have to be able sort of tell that entire story and we have to be able to talk about our own experiences in reflect live and precise enough away to be able to identify what we are experiencing. And were not exploring as a world as a result of that. Yeah, i dont i dont know. What do you think. What do you think i dont know that that was perfect . Everything that you said is what i would have said. Great, great. Youre perfect. I dont know. I cant add anything. Um. Okay. Okay. We got more time. Okay. Um boo boo, boo boo. What do i want to talk about . Um, im always like. I didnt write enough questions, and then im like, i wrote too questions. Um, okay. I want to know. Okay. Oh heres a question that way. Okay, wait. Im a professional broadcaster. Okay. I think just occurred to me because, like, youre immersed this all the time anyway. And like this, your, you know, your career and you, i mean, of your many careers, but, you know, you just wrote this book. But im if there was some kind of detail or statistic that came up in the research for this book that surprised even you . Oh i hate recall questions like that. So im sorry. Thats a good one. When people are like, lindy, whats your favorite song, im like, never heard one. I dont. So its okay if you dont have one top of mind. Youre like the hamster song. Its utterly good, crazy for. All its me. I would say so, listen, this is not one of the ones from the book. It was in preparation for an interview the other day that blew my mind and it made so happy. Guys, i was prepping for an interview about Weight Watchers. My blood oath against Weight Watchers allow and i looked up, you know, this had a number of questions about like, why so many diets saying that theyre not diets anymore and. I was like, good question that a lot of people are not asking like, why is noom like just eat 1200 calories a day, dont worry about it. Were not a diet. Its fine like. And what i found, i was looking for some, you know, its sort of off conjecture that diets dont sell like they used to. And i was like, i should check that assumption. Make sure that thats true, guys the share price for Ww International is down to thirds in the last year. Yeah. Thats why ladys emailing you. Im like, is that are we not allowed to about that . Well, is that a secret . Okay, never mind. The ceo of weight wants to be her friend. Yeah, i like is sliding the dms over and over. Yeah ive gotten some emails being like are we going to be friends . Do you want to hang out . And im like, i know what to do with this. Im a kappa and youre a mountain. No, it could never be like. Theres just a Weight Watchers pr person somewhere whos, like, weeping and begging her to. Like, im sure im sure, im sure, im sure. But like that one really kind blew my brains out of my head to be like, oh, okay, were cookin with gas now team is there again. Were cooking with induction now do you. My one of my republican the very extremely elderly relatives the other day posted a picture on facebook of like an timey gas stove and was like at this beautiful stove like theyre doing reactionary stove content. You can have stove ron was it on facebook and did it include a minion gather a minion cooking pancakes. Um anyway so is there a gift good enough that would get you to convince you to be friends with w w lady. Like could me can be part. If there was a way for them to be like. Im taking down this company and im taking down noom with me like were going out to blaze of glory. Id be like, okay, cool. We could totally hang out. Are you in town . Lets get drinks. But like, not if youre like, i just started this new job that im excited about where i wish fat people to be thin and then yell at them when theyre not like i like. I run an empire of people who yell at fat people for not being thin. Like i dont thats thats not for me. I just still this day at age 40, almost 41, i who and i have done so much reflection in on being fat and being whatever myself. And still to this day, i uncover new little parts of myself that harmed by Weight Watchers just all the time. Im like, oh, im like, i have like all kinds of little secret traumas that i that im just like everyone. So ill be like, why does such a weird relationship with food have . And i worked this enough and then its like, oh yeah, i was like ten. And the thing where make you go, youre like in the room with the other people and then you have to go on the scale in front all the people and then they like cheer or theyre disappointed in you. They cheer or they say nothing and go next week. Next week. I think its bad. I. Yeah. Heartache. Yeah dont, dont. Come in. I dont call ten year olds fat academy of american pediatric dont call ten year olds fat. Oh. What are we going to do . I will tell you. Can i tell you very fun thing that i was like the people who are closest to me in my life are have really come to dread my phone calls because its almost always that im researching something and im like, im full and i go yelling at somebody and theyre like, i dont want that like, no. And i had one of those moments when i was reading the Ap Guidelines, which is the sort of for folks who are unfamiliar, the American Academy of pediatrics last week or the week before changed their guidelines like interventions for childhood obesity, quote, quote unquote. Um, to be a recommending weight loss as early as 13, recommending weight loss drugs in grade school and recommending diet interventions starting at age two and oh. So i call old my mom, whos like an Early Childhood ad person. Shes like totally brilliant. Like doctor of kid brains and i told her about it. She was like, i cant talk about this anymore. I got to go for a while. And she hung up the phone and went, and like had a cry because thats my and shes wonderful. And then called me back like 10 minutes later and she went, do you know what a dietary intervention is for a two year old . And i was like, you seem mad whats going on . And she was like a dietary intervention for a two year old is like, dont throw your food on the ground like, hey, lets put it in your mouth or keep it on your plate. She was like i dont youre not getting out like points for like a toddler. So they already have that. Youre already absorbing those messages when youre too. Whats new . Like whats new other than the drugs and the surgery for the little children which by the way, at the same time that you see that trump speech where he was, we got to stop trans kids having medical care. But we should give the the we go the to the fourth graders like i its just like yeah its its very because you know whos had it too good too long. Thats trans kids and die you better people like what are we doing everybody what are we do. I dont know but okay wait, i have. How about i ask a question question . Because i dont know. Ive been yelling about this for a while. And then other people were doing it for like 40 years before i started. Yeah. And then now wrote the best book. So maybe this well be done now. Were done. You guys. We did it and it me. Okay, but heres okay. This is my favorite because this is the thing i think about a lot for myself that bad but okay the all of this talking about being fat writing about being fat etc. Is like circumstantial for us. Like we are put in this position to, have to address it and then, you know, have made various careers addressing it in various ways. Um, but not like its like supplemental to our lives as actual beings on earth. And i, and i know you get to do of this with your podcast and. You, you know, obviously you are a whole person, but like, what would you about if you werent like constantly dragged this direction of having to justify your humanity. Yeah. I mean, so the thing that i to write, i, i had a triple major in college just because i went to a, its not, its because i went to a school where they were like, we dont make you take anything you dont want to take. And i was like, cool, im taking these three things for forever and the thing that i was most in love with was writing plays. I used to write plays and, um yeah, totally. It was like, really, i wrote a terrible play that. Could only be written by a 21 year old that was like its a one woman show about valerie solanas, who wrote the script. Youre that. Thats not anywhere in anyones reach. And we produce it. Come. Yeah. Oh, great. Perfect. Im pretty sure i wrote that for, like, a class that was like Site Specific play rating and its like plays that are designed to only be ever in one place. And i was the it was like a building on art college. They were like, were all it in this one house. Yeah. I mean, i feel like i would honestly, i feel like i would be living a very different life, uh, and i would be, uh, like more about the thoughts and feelings and less about leave me alone. Do you really mean like, its a lot. Its a lot of writing. Like, just let me let me walk my dog. You know what id be like . Good for you. Youre outside. Yeah, its. Im curious for you, i. I feel like this question of just sort of like, if not for anti fatness, then what is an interesting one to me and ive been thinking a lot lately about how i was talking to someone recently, media representation and a common wish that i hear from fat folks is like i want to see media where a fat person is in the media and it has nothing to do with their fatness, which i totally understand is a wish. And for me, like the way that i experience is much more as like im just trying to go to the grocery and then like some human whacamole pops up and is like, are you sure you want to get there . Like, oh, right. Or what have you, right . Like it feels much like has more of a ring of truth to me to think like youre just trying to go about your day and then people just pop up and theyre like, do you want to join gym . Ill go with you like a okay, im about for you. How has anti fatness . How is like the anti fatness that you experienced . Change in your own sort of arc as a public figure . Have you noticed differences . Are there things that are more same than you wish they were . Thats such a good question, and i dont totally know the answer because so many other things change over time. Like im so much less sensitive now and i think that i am more scary now. Like, i like people approach me less. Um, i think i give a vibe of dont yeah, yeah. I mean, im like really nice. I dont, people dont anyway, but, um, ive also gotten bigger over time, so i also have just. You know, access challenges and like there are ways that i slam into this wall more often than did when i was in my twenties. Um, and i have better perspective about it and i dont know, like, i will say that one thing thats been kind of painful lately because it feels like such a, uh, a weird and like like it feels like a betrayal to ask but as i, as i hit 40 and im getting older and like i have actual life to reflect on sometimes im like, im so curious what it would have been like to have been thin at any point in my life like what would my life have looked like because i have idea i dont know what it feels like. I dont know how people treat you. I dont i have no clue. But its such a its such a painful to wonder because it does it feels like im like betraying my community, but i like i wonder and theres no way to know. Like, i dont know, but, um. Yeah, i mean, anyway, how its like, what . Lets see what kind of the question was what kind of anti fatness do i experience . How has it changed . I mean, i dont know. I think ive also like withdrawn public life a little, um, you know, doing the tv show like 80 got, you know, all the visual attention, which was nice. Also, i mean because shes like so famous that she doesnt directly anyway. So she like has a team and doesnt. I mean, thats not true. Im sure she sees it and shes she suffers and she deals with it, but, um, but yeah, i mean, its its just, uh, its this like invisible force has shaped my life in these really intense ways. And i and i sometimes wonder, i, that any of us could see who we were without, without, without any of that you know. Yeah, i feel like this is one that comes up quite a bit from folks who have, um, who were long time fat people and then went through weight loss surgery or had some other reason to lose lot of weight that the things, that i feel that i hear most frequently from folks in that category, which im not im similarly, im just like fat person since forever i got nothing else to go on charm your way out literally everything to get good at jokes. Okay. Uh uh, that what folks will about when they lose weight runs directly counter to our cultural around weight loss that folks will sort of like the expectation is you lose weight, you suddenly look like a thin person whos also ten years younger. You theres extra skin, theres no nothing. You dont have stretch marks. You dont have anything. Just are magically like, i dont what . Cindy crawford in 1991. Congratulations. All your Health Problems are solved and all your personal problems. Yeah, some. Youre married now . Yeah yeah. Yeah. Your marriage is fixed. Your kids respects you, theyre rocks. You get a promotion. Its great. Uh, what i feel like i hear most frequently from folks have experienced major weight loss is like a profound alienation even from the closest relationships in their lives that they will go. Uh, i went to this cafe day for years and, years and years, and i went away and lost weight, and i came back, and they, like, didnt recognize me. Everyone treated me totally differently. Or a bunch of my friends and family were like, im so glad you lost the weight. I was really worried about you and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then volunteer all of these judgments about your like a past self and it feels like im so i can finally talk to you about this. Oh, cool. Sorry i interrupted. You know, carol, you cant. Oh, but like, it feels like this, um, incredibly sort of like heavy realization that everyone around you was wishing for you to look different this entire time. And i think folks just assume that you will passively your newfound privilege be really, really thrilled with it and go on your merry way. And there are definitely some fat folks who do that. And well be like, yeah, i was gross or whatever. And youre like, oh, dont, dont be that guy. Ooh. But there are also like plenty, plenty of folks who talk about this like real profound. Yeah. Alienation in your relationships. And i feel like i very content to keep the of that pandoras box i dont need to know what everyone is wishing for me like yeah guess i guess what i mean is not like im curious to know what it would be to be. I was just thinking about it as you were talking like its not i wish i knew what it was to be thin. I wish that we could vanish like the decades of anti and see ourselves like unbroken well like the aforementioned bryant in another world like the biggest movie star in the world. Right. Like it is like a totally incredible comedic leading lady. Com leading lady, like all this sort of stuff, right . In another. Melissa mccarthy can like get dressed for the red carpet from like someone other than siriano which like god him and we need like another one. Yeah. Could there be two . Can we do this just if theres another gay who really wants like add value to fat bodies. That would be incredible. Okay, i forgot to do the questions the audience and now we are but i think we started so im going to can i claim 11 extra minutes great. Okay great great. Were doing it. Im mad with power. Okay lets see. Boop dupa do can you talk. This got 70 upvotes. Oh can you talk more about lgbt plus fat experience oh 18 upvotes fat experience. Can you talk more about lgbt fat experiences if possible . The sapphic love you. Theyre here today. Let the sapphic show up in full force tonight. Yeah, i mean, so listen, i feel like much has been said about gay communities in particular cis gay mens communities in particular, much been said and more needs to be said about the experiences of fat trans who are subject to Standards Care that vary from office office. Different surgeons can different thresholds for bmi. They will perform surgery at. So depending on which surgeon you go to, you have a different weight loss goal until they are willing perform surgery. But if thats gastric bypass surgery, congratulations can fit you right in. I would say just like a queer cis lady. Hello. That there is sort of a to believe that like everything fine with the queer ladies and everything really is not fine with queer ladies and anti fatness the the tricky thing about queer Lady Community is in my own limited experience geographically limited in a million different ways. Um, is that my fellow queer ladies are extremely good talking the talk about anti fatness and anti oppression work and not one of them will data fat person. Right like oh yeah. Hey yeah this person gets it. This person gets it right. Like i think there is a real tricky thing here of sort of like being all in on the issue as like a project, but not actually opening up your social lives, not opening up your dating lives, not reflecting on your own stuff, but just sort of comfortably going, oh, ive taken right position on this issue and stopping your reflection there. Like, im so happy that there are so many queer women out in the world who have copies of like the body is not an apology and so happy that there are so many queer ladies out in the world who have copies of fat and. Those are still people who are like, i just find myself most drawn to like really thin androgynous people and youre like, dont spend any time on that one. Got it. Which is like i think theres a there is a real misperception that like that, people just are just want to demand that you date them. And like, thats not it. Show me a person who wants that . Whos like, i demand that you, me, this is a fulfilling relationship to me. But when like everyone around you is like i support you fully, i would absolutely never make a life with you. Thats hard message to take like. Thats a hard and very clear message to take. No matter how many other things you say on top of like being around people who are like how i am the only fat person that you know and you are really keen. Talk to me about your fat politics and i dont know if you talked to any other human being it ever. And i know that youre not spending time with other or i dont see you spending with other fat people that feels like, look, thats work that everybody has to do. Like, no question thats across board work. Its a thing that i notice, particularly amongst other bisexual women and lesbian queer people. Its theres work to do. Thats what i would say theres work to do. Okay. Okay. This is our number one most popular. One weird trick is there. Anything that you wished people asked you in interviews, they never do. Ill tell you what i didnt. I dont have wishes for interviews because im always like, you know, its every time a flip of a coin that im going to, like, get on the phone with a reporter or start a radio interview, and theyre going to be like, hey, listen, i get your whole thing. But like the Ap Guidelines have some good points, right . Like you got to admit, right . Like, thats like a lot of the questions is just like. Right. But you would agree that this anti fat aroney statement is true, right . You are definitely to die, right . I ill tell you this, this is also not a wish. These are all just bad. Sorry. Hi. I had an interview. This was some years ago with a reporter who was like, i want to talk to about your experiences going to the doctors office. And i was like, sure. I said, yes, because why would you say no . There are lots of reasons to say no and that reporter asked me a bunch of questions blah, blah, blah, blah, all of that sort of stuff and. Then came back to me a few days later and was like, i have a follow up for you. You have some time for follow up questions. And i was like, sure, can you email them to me . The reporter sent me these follow up questions and they were i to a doctor who says that if you dont weight, you will blow out both knees by the time youre 40, you will become diabetic, you will become hypertensive, and you will certainly not make it to 45, 45. I was like, i know many fat people who are living on borrowed time. If thats the mathematician. Sorry grandma, you didnt live to 92. How like okay, am i just have to be like, right. Youre just like, what . What are we doing here . And he was like, do you have any response to all of this. And i was like, my response is it seems real unethical for a doctor to diagnose a patient . Theyve never seen through a game of telephone like clearly doing . I will say so like most of my like approach to interviews is just like i know. But i will say i had an interview recently for the first time in how or eight years of doing this writing someone was like, whats your writing process like . And i was like, oh, imagine a writer and making it eight years in and having someone be like, tell me about your writing. Like, wow, interesting. So like that kind of stuff. Just like genuinely any questions about literally anything else . Im like a treat. Oh, you dont want me to yell about the way over 20 minutes . Awesome um, were good. I people would ask me, whats my favorite animal that i saw at the reptile expo . What was your favorite animal you saw at the reptile expo . What a good question. I. I think hog knows snake. Yeah. So they had a little piggy nose and a little pig nose. And the best thing about it, its dramatic as hell if you scare it, it goes like just like what you did for the about the interviews. Its like, no, oh and it like pretends to die with so much panache. Yeah. And also from what i see on the internet also, they like to bite you all the time like, even if its like your pet, just like rat. Oh, fun. Thanks. So thanks for asking. Theyre so cute. Look, im up, okay . I think were great. Lets do one more. Do want to pick one . Why . You pick one. Okay, ill take one. Great, great. Up. Theres so many little i might want roasted. Whoever wrote that one . No, it has 28 upvotes and im so sorry to all 29 of you. Uh, the question has been asked at every event that i have done. Is michael here . Will you point out to us. And the answer is like, listen absolute applause break for michael hobbs. Im totally here for it. That guys the greatest. And the answer is no. And also no. I wouldnt have that guy. There was one person at the powells event very sweetly. Who was like a short gay man, was like, people keep coming up to me and asking if im michael. And i was like, i dont know if this is an im sorry or a youre welcome a whats happening here. But like, oh, um. Huh, oh, boy, oh, boy. Be there. And these are some heavy ones i know. Do you want me to talk more about snakes while youre doing that . Oh, here is that i appreciate. I enjoy this one a great deal. Can you talk about intuitive eating . Oh, yeah. What is that. Is where you eat food and you dont think about it very. Oh my god. Its like you just youre like, im hungry. What am i hungry . I, i mean, i guess i do do that yet. Like, look at that. Yeah. All right yeah, i did it. No i would love to hear you talk about that. Why is that it . Youre more you might have more to say about that. Okay, so intuitive eating for folks who are unfamiliar is a framework that comes out of eating disorder. Recovery spaces. And the idea is that every diet you are ever on is like youre hungry, its working. Like its all about sort of, disconnecting you from your own hunger and satiety cues and intuitive eating is about sort of restoring connection and being like, what do you feel hungry if youre not hungry . Do you want eat because youre bored . Thats okay. Make decision actively like do what you want, right um, i would. This is a thing that comes up quite bit. In fact, activism spaces in the same way that body neutrality comes quite a bit. In fact, activism spaces. And i think folks dont necessarily that what theyre talking about is an individual ized approach to writing your own mindset and not a Movement Building to changing the world that live in. So like intuitive eating fine and great if it works for you, thats not like a substitute for fat justice or fat liberation or fat activism of any kind same same with body neutrality work feeling as neutral as you like about your own body or as positive as you about your own body, but also recognize that really only necessarily changes how you feel about your own body. Right . I would also say its worth lifting up that there have been some really smart, thoughtful critiques of intuitive eating that are like, yeah, man, if youre working an hourly job and you get 115 minute break every 4 hours, you cant exactly eat intuitively and be like, id like to graze while im working at the post office, whatever. Right . Like you cant thats like not a thing that you could do. And i think those are really good and thoughtful conversations worth having about talking about like, yeah, man, when people like me who are like, you know, raised middle class ladies are just like, hey guys, we all have the same access, right . Lets just all do this thing, right . Like it doesnt always go to the most like universally applicable place and it just feels like worth lifting up that. Like this is another place where weve got to get precise enough about what were talking about and body positivity, neutrality and eating are all great ways to address body dysmorphia. Eating disorders. Theyre incredibly useful tools in. The toolbox that dont then go on and like make the world a hospitable place for fat people. Those are things that both need to happen. So sure, thats such a good answer. Thanks, but appreciate it i mean, i feel like we should leave it there. Oh, great. Yeah. I want to say that you are a world changing person and i am so honored to get to be here and do this event with you. And i could talk to you for four more hours. But no, thats okay. We got to go home and go to bed. And i support employees of the venue. Yeah but just thank you so much for your work and for your existence and being who you are and for being here and everyone. I dont know if you bought a copy with your ticket or what but get the book, send it to everyone youve ever met and stick around and get your book signed. Yeah, look at that. Thank so much. At the us bookshop in may. Well recently sat down with yale universe city professor david blight. Hes one of three editors of a short biography series that focuses on individuals of african