Transcripts For CSPAN3 The 20240704

Us by facebook and youtube here at white house history live. This is a special edition coming you from historic Decatur House on lafayette square. Just 200 yards from the north door of the white house. Today, we have a wonderful guest, pete souza, who is the bestselling author and for eight years was the chief White House Photographer for president. Obama headed the White House Photography Office and was a president ial photographer for president reagan. We have much talk about gathered with us here today. Indicator house is a wonderful audience. Friends of the White House Historical association. Many of you have the white house for years in either journalism, television, radio, photography and its great to have you with us as well. So lets dive in, have our first question to pete. Do you remember what the circumstances were, how old you were, the very first time you visited the white house . I do. I was a 1965. Okay. My parents took myself and my sister, jane to d. C. And we we toured washington and we visited the white house. We went on the white house tour. We have no oh, no visit. Do you know why . Why is that . Because photos were not on the white house tours until michelle obama. And thats right. Is the one who changed that policy. Well, and the other thing i remember was. At one point we were walking along pennsylvania avenue right in front of the white. This is back in the day where that was to cars. Sure. Sure. And this big black limousine was driving by slowly and it kind of slow down and the back window rolled. And Lady Bird Johnson waved at us. Oh, wow. And i did subsequently, 25 years later, i did get to tell Lady Bird Johnson. Oh, that right. But no photograph of that either. A photograph of that. I am part of it was i was not really that in taking pictures until i took a photo class in college and. Oh really later. Yeah. I was not one of these you know kids that was drawn to photography right away. Although i will say that. I was in fourth grade when kennedy was assassinated and the next day that famous picture by cecil stone of lbj, again sworn in really was a profound moment. So much so that i cut that picture out of that newspaper and taped to my bedroom closet door. So clearly, as a really young kid, still photographs were speaking to me, not knowing that someday, you know, this would be sure thats really powerful. So how did your career evolve photography and how did you end up at the doorstep of the white house . Whats a photographer for president reagan, you no luck plate. So much of a role in my career. Just like the way things happen. So i ended going to boston university, took a photo class, realized that was my passion and. I ended up working for small newspapers in kansas and then the chicago suntimes. When in 1983 i got a phone call from the White House Photo editor who was working for Michael Evans that reagans chief photographer her and she said. We want you to apply for this job. And i told her, no, i really not interested. Oh, no, i was doing so well in chicago that i was like, you know, im not ready to leave. And i probably went home that night thinking about that picture of cecil stone and some of the other pictures that id seen over the years from the white house and like, what am i crazy to turn down this opportunity . So i called her back the next morning, came d. C. Interviewed, and they hired me. So thats the way that happened. Well, you obviously build a rapport with the people that you photograph, particularly for a period of time. And you covered the reagan presidency and then came a time when president reagan died many years later. And his body is being brought back to washington for the funeral. And you have this iconic, moving, emotional photograph of mrs. Reagan on the president ial plane, bringing them back. Do you how do you meld into the wall . Do you become there but not there with someone having such a personal moment . And tell us about this experience being with her in that very powerful moment for her person . Yeah. I mean, it was i sort knew many years before that that i would be asked to photograph the funeral for for the reagans. And so when he died, i flew out to california. And, you know, i had had a relationship with mrs. Reagan that was, you know, quite intimate in ways because you end up as a White House Photographer being very intimate situations. So so i had had this previous relationship with her and. I was there on their behalf and, but it was also documented history. So i have to say it was very eerie to see the on air force to to see those gas seats on the plane had been removed. And i strapped the casket in in the guest cabin of air force one. And president bush was nice enough to send air force one out to california to up reagans casket. So its very eerie to just see it sitting back there. Picture shows, mrs. Reagan came back with with her son ron, and rons son, doria, and, you know, i just kind of like at her. And she looked at me and i knew it was okay to be there and not know words were exchanged, but i felt that my presence there was wanted. And its just kind of a gut feeling really, because this is as intimate a situation. Absolutely. Absolutely. As you can possibly. I mean, theres nobody else back there except for me. And the three of them. So a very intimate moment. Hmm. Well, the white house obviously is filled with times of sorrow and sadness and joy and rejoicing and. There was a time, one of those times is when there are these celebratory visits to the white house of we recently had the state visit of a president. Mrs. Macron came to the white house, as you all know. But there was an iconic time. There was the visit of the then prince and princess of wales to the white house. This is a photo that i think everyone has seen and of former white house social secretary gail birt, whos on our board, takes credit for aligning this to make happen. But i want to hear your perspective as well. And there was something that i notice about this photo that is a little its a little bit of a tell to me. Notice in the background, mrs. Reagan, and then prince of wales, Prince Charles, are oblivious to whats going on and its all they are in their own little world of conversation. And hes paying no attention to his wife whos stealing the show. So tell us about this, this image and how this came about and any other moments like this in your years there . Yeah, its funny. I mean, that certainly was an amazing night and it was surreal in so many ways. I mean, i you know, given age, i knew John Travolta from that tv show. Welcome back, o. Welcome back kotter. Okay, you know which, is like going way back and, you know, and then, you know from obviously saturday night fever and, the the band actually struck up a medley from that movie thats what the military the band was playing and. It was so surreal and if you look really closely diana blushing and in the moment you could really see the cheeks turning red as shes dancing with apparently what was her, you know, Favorite Movie star. Im looking at that secret Service Agent in the background, you know, just over the the hands. And i remember talking to him right this and i was like, can you believe what just happened . And i remember saying that because it was so surreal that this that this had just happened. So are there moments like this when you take a photograph, you know, that is going to be as iconic as it becomes . Well, i knew i had captured some special moments. I have like dozens of them pictures of them dancing. She also danced with neil diamond and neil diamond at one point while he dancing with her was singing to her, oh, my god. And it was like, you know, and she danced with toms. I think tom selleck and clint eastwood. Oh, goodness. I could be wrong on that. Did she dance with Prince Charles . I did dance with president reagan that way. Got there. There you go. Wow. Well, thats quite an occasion and obviously we could cover thousands of photographs from the reagan. But you end that presidency and then years go by. Its 2005 and youre covering a young junior senator from illinois by the name of barack obama. Youre back at the chicago tribune. Tell us about the evolution of that relationship. Yep. And then ending up with him at the white house. Yeah, again, it was it was another lucky coincidence in that i happened to be working the washington based photographer for, the chicago tribune. I was doing stories around the country, around the world had gone to afghanistan, all kinds of things. But when the hometown gets elected to the senate, you know, it was kind of a big deal. And he was already being talked about as, you know, a future, you know, National Leader and so we pitched the story jeff zeleny now with cnn and was then a tribune correspondent with me. And the Tribune Bureau in d. C. So we pitched the story to darcie. He met obamas first year in the senate. And because were the hometown newspaper, you know especially me i got access that nobody else got. And you it struck up, you know, when youre in somebodys close space, like that you have to develop some of a relationship, a professional relationship, not friendship. And he got, you know, that gave him a chance to see the way i worked which you know you know, the way i work just be as unobtrusive as possible and try to capture things as happen. And so i think he appreciated the way i worked and, you know, i ended up following him for the two and a half years as in the senate. And i actually did not cover the campaign except here and there but kind of kept in touch with and his staff and then i tell people the story. This is so true. Two weeks after or i guess only a week after the election, i covered the event in grant park and a week or so the election i sent robert gibbs an email that had no no message to it. It just had a subject line and it just said im interested. Oh, my goodness. That was how i applied for the job. Well, that was successful. So you didnt turn it down this time . No, i did not. And the fact, you know, the big difference between doing reagan and obama is i became the chief photographer . Yes. I was a seasoned guy i knew how the white house worked. I had known barack obama for four years just as a human being. And so, you know, before i took the job, i said him, i got to have total access. Unfettered access. I cant kept out of anything. And he agreed. Well, how did you were the chief photographer for obama and just any photographer during reagan . Two different roles but compare two experiences. The men president , the white house itself and the comparison of the role for you. You know a of similarities in the way the white house worked between the two you know things didnt you know i mean i knew how the how the white house worked the logistics of it and it like almost identical with with obama you know just the way the paperwork flowed you know, the way the motorcades work Way Air Force one worked, you know, manifests, knew all that stuff. And that stayed pretty much the same. Obviously, technology had changed a huge amount. The logistics were of kind of the same. Heres heres the one thing that the two president s had in common is they both had this even keeled disposition where, you know, they didnt get rattled that much. I, i saw him get rattled both them. I saw him, but i saw him both get to say that her but it would take a lot to do that with both of them. And i think, you know, in many ways, you know, think from what i observed that thats probably a good characteristic for a president to have to be able to, because so much being thrown at you every day that if youre going to blow up over every little, sure, its going to be a fun job. Well, youre office. Youre taking into the confidence of the president and of the country. Really. Youve probably spent more time in the oval office other than any president would have. Do you see things here . Things that you have to keep confidential . Are you part of the mechanics of that secrecy . Oh, of course. I mean, so i had it during reagan. I had a top secret during obama. I had a top secret cia. So the next you know, the next level up so that i could be in the room when they were talking about, you know, the that kind of information. But but but i wasnt privy to paperwork you know which is where where everythings written super top secret classified information you know i wasnt privy to that but obviously overheard them discussing that kind of information and when you get a security clearance like that, theres a whole process. They ever ask you opinion on anything . Im joking. Well, Ronald Reagan did one time and. Obama did a cop a few times. Okay. Theres this amazing photograph that everyone will recognize here. And its during the Obama Presidency in capturing of osama bin laden. When you were taken into situation room where this photograph was taken, did you have any idea what the subject matter was going to be . Oh, yeah. So about a week before john, that you see in the top right hand corner, second from the left, i mean, second from the right is was the Homeland Security adviser at the time. And and an aide in his office had come to me maybe a week or ten days before. And whatever do dont go anywhere, you know, next weekend. And and she said to me, im not sure its going to be saturday or sunday. And that was the trigger for me, that this was a special ops because i knew it was weather dependent, right . So i it was some sort of special ops. And then, you know, later and later i guess maybe the day before i figured out what was going on and, you know, earlier that day, this picture made, you know, around 4 00 dc time, but around. 1 00 he had his first meeting in the situation room that afternoon. This was on a sunday, and they went over the final details. So i knew you know for sure 100 , maybe 3 hours before it happened. So youre seeing them in their faces through the lens of your camera as theyre watching this unfold, do you stay focused on them and not get captured into whats happening . Well, this is not to say that i it, but look, i knew this was a historic day and you but we didnt know how was going to turn out. Youre right. This could have been sure. This could have been the event that made him a one term president. You see some fear and doubt on the faces of. Well, look, let i think best way to put it is you got essentially the the most powerful people in the executive branch of our government all jammed into this tiny room. And in those 40 minutes, they. 100 powerless. Right. Its completely up to those special forces guys on the ground. You know, these are the guys make the decision. Yes. They had made decision to launch this raid. He had made that to launch this raid. Now theres nothing he can do. Yes. So i think, you know, you can just imagine the tension. Sure. And several of those guys. I mean, everyone in that room was aware of carter mission in 1910 was at 1979 or what. I cant remember what year it was when launched that rescue mission to try to get our out of iran. And it was a complete debacle. Helicopters crashed. People died. Thats got to be on their maps as well. Absolutely. Well, lets shift gears a little bit and theres another photograph is of a very popular and this is Jacob Philadelphia reaching up to over and touching president obamas head. And i understand this was the one of the president s favorite photographs as well. Give us the scenario and why like this so his dad carlton philadelphia was on the National Security council. He was i think he worked for the state department and they people to the National Security council at the white house, nonpolitical. He had actually worked during the Bush Administration had carried over to the Obama Administration and five months into the Obama Administration he headed to a foreign post somewhere. So as a courtesy, president obama invited the family in for what was supposed to be just a quick greeting and photo, stay in front of the desk and then young jacob, i think it was five at the time, had the presence of mind to say, mr. President , my friends tell me that my haircut is just like yours. Wow and with that, barack obama bent over. Jacob touched his head. Its happened so fast. Look, ive cut his dads head off so compositionally not the perfect composition. But. But the fact that i precisely got the moment because theres only one picture, one click, but you can his eyes and you see his hand touching his head and like i didnt even know what i had. Even though with digital camera you look looking back at the camera because like, you know, there was like all kinds of stuff going on that day. I never really looked back. My camera. And later that day, one of the photo editors that was looking through my take from the day sent me the photo and he said look at this and i was like, oh, thats pretty cool photo. And i dont i probably didnt realize the significance of how the Africanamerican Community would react that youve got young black kid touching the head of the United States that looks like him. Thats right. And how much that resonated with people and just that just kind of grew grew over time. One postscript on this is. Jacob is 18. No. And both president obama and i separately did a zoom with him this earlier. Oh, how great. And he he graduated from high and hes now at the university of memphis, majoring in political wow. Thats fantastic. Well, i image that comes to mind to me. I look at this photo as hes standing right in front of that door on the desk where john kennedy came out probably a little bit younger than he was in that picture. And just so through the eyes of a child in the magic of the oval office is a very powerful thing. I love that photo. It was it was we had this we would hang these what we call jumbos. Yes. Along the walls of the west wing. This had been a tradition back that i think went back to the nixon days where the office would create photos and put them up on the wall. So when people when staff and secret service give friends and family tours of the west wing night, they get to see the oval office, the cabinet room. But then as theyre walking in, they get to see all these cool behind the scenes pictures. Right. So this picture was up and we rotate pictures out, put new ones up, and we kept this one up and caught the attention of jackie columns, a New York Times reporter, she ended up doing a story about it and then about year five, i finally took it down right. And i had like three different senior staffers come into my office and say, can you can you put that picture back up . Oh, wow. Because what would happen is when they were given the tours, it the west wing, they would stop front of the photo and tell their guests the story. And i and i, i and then so then it went back up and it stayed up till january 20th. Well, i know we have a of members of our board here, Anita Mcbride and, bob mcgee, and i know anita will remember. There used to be a tradition where senior staff walk through. You would sign your name, the back. And i stopped that taking down the most senior person got the photograph. I stopped that because it got out of control you know and so what we did what the process we changed it to was like once every two weeks or something. My Office Manager would send out an email to, the staff saying were going to be checking out old jumbos for you to. Hang in your office at this day at this time. And so people would line up and theyd get to choose the one they wanted and it was much more efficient way of doing it. Well, talking about last time i was at the Reagan Library there, images were still on contacts, trips and three ring binders. Right. And now millions of photographs are digitally taken. So contrast for us and even the number of clicks or images or reagan to obama, was it hundreds of thousands versus millions or how did that compare. Oh, yeah, i dont i honestly dont know how many how many photographs there and reagan i i dont know during the Obama Administration i personally shot 1. 9 million photos. My goodness and the total for the staff was 4 million so so another 2 million from mrs. Obama events Vice President biden events like that and you know one of the things that im proud of, not just, you know, the photo the photos that i made, but we made a concert, did effort that every photograph an ap style caption photo archivists would go back in and enter if it was if there were ten people or less and the photo, she would go in and identify every Single Person and and then do keywords which you can do digitally so that every single image has all that information attached to it. Now, at the national archives. So for, you know, for years to come, that will be invaluable for research or researchers. Whereas with like the Reagan Library now, its very difficult to like go and pinpoint and find a certain photo you really need to find the you need to know the date. Its hard to say yes. So its digital has made it much easier for researchers forward for sure, and a much more comprehensive coverage of that presidency would imagine. Yes, yeah, for sure. Well, lets go to our online viewers have submitted some questions and this require you to be a little diplomat in a response. But as joanne from facebook and she wonders, what is your favorite White House Photo that is not yours . And do you have a favorite White House Photographer other than yourself . Well i mean, thats easy question mean yoshioka motto was lbj photographer. And, you know, is he is the best ever he i mean he had an interesting character as his main subject, lets face it. But he was also phenomenal photographer. And so, i mean would probably choose one of his although i worked with a guy named Jack Kightlinger who had worked as one of the white house staff photographers for, i think, three or four administrations. And he with us during the first term of of reagan and worked under ogie to yoshimoto and there was a time when lbj had fired okamoto for for like a week or Something Like that. And jack has like one of my favorite photos. Its a picture of lbj alone in the cabinet room and in the foreground is a is a tape recorder. And hes listening to a narration from chuck robb, who had been sending tapes vietnam to his wife. Yes, the president s daughter. White house communications. Take those cassette tapes and try to improve the sound quality. And they put them on a real for real and lbj is listening to the horrors of what hes reporting and hes head is bent down its just really dramatic photo wow. The next question is from a youtube viewer in belgium and this is a question that i actually head down to ask you later. If you could go back in history to any early american president , former american president lincoln photographer, who would it be and why, and abraham image what you wanted to capture that presidency. Well, i mean i dont we really dont know what images existed during lincoln because you know, photography then was such that in order to do, you know, there were many pictures of lincoln, but theyre all like pose shots where hes having to hold still like a second or longer, right so photography was not nearly advanced, obviously, as it was know, even 50 years later. But you know, like i saw Steven Spielbergs movie lincoln and im thinking like, oh my god, there must have been like there would have been like amazing images if if you were documenting what lincoln going through and just, you know, tumultuous time for our country. So definitely lincoln. Wow. So heres a question also from facebook. How do the president s differ in the image of a photograph when you see them and how they are in real when youre not taking their photograph, they differ. Are they the same . Im not sure i understand that question. They are. You know, the they are who they are. I mean, i think i remember with reagan especially, really, i had no prior relationship him at all. I knew him from tv. And then all of a sudden, youre, you know, in his inner sanctum and you see him just like as a regular guy. I mean, i to i dont mean to diminish it much, but you see that. Oh he, you know, puts his shoes and socks on just the way i do. I mean you sort of forget that about president s. Theyre just normal people. Yeah. And what about the family accessing . Family moments and the privacy of that and knowing what should be private and personal and what should be official . The the the way i, i guess with president obama at the way i looked at it was if if kids were interacting with him, then i was going to photograph it. But at the same time, ive got this one picture in and my first book where hes sitting out on the swing set with daughter malia, who had just gotten home from school one afternoon and he left the oval office, went out and sat next to her. And theyre a father daughter conversation. I want to make that picture, which i did. But at the same time, youve got to realize you know, theres an intuitive sense. You got to say to yourself, i dont need to be, oh, you know, eavesdropping on this conversation. So you make a few pictures and you back away and you let them have their moment about two years. And to the administrate. And i called melissa winter, who is michelles deputy chief of and i said, i want to meet with mrs. Obama about the family. And so i went into her office and i just put it this way to her. I said, i just want you to let me know. How im doing, documenting the family. Is it too much . It not enough. Is it just right . And she said it was just right. I felt good. I felt that i was doing it just right . Absolutely. But and then it got to the point where they would ask me to do some things in the private residence that i didnt even know was happening. There was one time when sasha was taking a tyquan doe test in the solaire because it was going to be too much of a hassle for her to take for the president. And first lady to take the motorcade right somewhere to do it. So they brought the to the white house. And, you know, they called me up and i came in on a sunday. So they and those are the most important pictures to him are the ones with his family. So he care about well, i mean, you know, the other pictures of himself didnt mean as much to him personally as the ones with sasha and malia michelle. Sure. And they will treasure, im sure, as im sure for you in knowing them in their body language, you take cues or clues from them to when to back off or come closer. Yeah. I mean, its again, its its intuitive. Its an intuitive sense. I mean, and i think this help that i was, i always say seasoned rather than older a guy during the Obama Administration because had been through so much in my career and you know i just had a good sense for when i needed to just back. So this is rj from facebook who ask what photo of yours from wonderful book are you most fond of from your time in the white house . You know, sort of like the same with any any of my books. Its hard like narrow it down to anyone picture i think my favorite section in the book is its called inside the spare you know the spare was a decoy. You know the you know the beast. It was identical to the beast, but it was decoy. Think about lame decoy. And it was just kind of like a series of pictures from my perspective, sitting that car, showing people out the window and the secret driver in front of me, you know, in the front seat and so i think thats my favorite section. The book during the presidency. Any photo that you miss, you wish you got during the Obama Administration . Im sure there are pictures in russia and china when they didnt let me in the room that i missed know wow thats a shame that would have been pretty powerful. Yeah well lets go to what was not my friend does have an official photographer does he have the yeah. No he has he has a guy that kind of spooky guy that, that was was not very friendly to me for a while. Lets see him from time to time. Also interesting photos to rummage through. Amy is going to do photos or, photos, questions from our audience. Does anybody in the audience have a question and anita and go way back. Yeah we do and its anita was chief of staff to First Lady Laura Bush and also worked in other presidencies. So she in the reagan i worked in the Reagan Administration. Thats why i got to know pete and know incredible work and i wanted to ask you the experi prince for you personally, for you were now with two president s, not during their years, but the day they left and that experience was it almost final for you . Was were you still focused on the history of transition of of that day and their final moments in the white house . If you can talk about the two president reagan and president. Yeah, you know, anita, i have done a i mean, i dont i dont want to say hundreds, but dozens and dozens of talks that involve q a. And no one has ever asked me that question. Well, very good, because you are who you are. So i mean, i think that with reagan, it was very much. Focus on the history of that day. I we were a transition transition to his vice who is going to become the new president. So that was very smooth and. And i was just focused on you know making the pictures matter of fact the the i did the same picture for both those days which was i got a ladder from the gsa to make a high angle shot wide angle shot of president reagan leaving the oval office for the last time. And i ended up doing the exact thats the only time i did the exact same picture did the exact same picture for president obama. The difference, though, on that day was was profound meaning for last day of obama in that i was physically spent. You know, i put into the eight years i was there every day i gave up like every birthday funeral, you know, dont feel sorry for me. I did it to myself, but i was physically and i guess probably mentally exhausted and to leave. And i had a countdown clock on my phone and all that kind of stuff. And so there was that emotion. And, you know, not to get too political that, you know, i was quite i was quite about who we were turning the keys over to. I concerned for the country and. So there were those dual emotions playing out that day of of of relief that it was that that it was done that i was going to have to get rid of my blackberry finally. But but just of concern for the country, what follow up for you on that . Do you know who the who youre handing the camera over to to become january the 20th when they change . Yeah, i did. And with i mean from obama bush i mean from reagan to bush david valdez who had been Vice President. I keep saying biden but Vice President bushs photographer he was going to become new chief. And then with trump, i didnt find out until two days before. When i got a call from shayla craighead that she was actually on a tryout. She she didnt have the full time job yet. She was they were her a tryout for the first week. And so i knew that maybe she called me, i think, two days before the inaugural. So initially that was the changing of the guard with. Yeah so yeah. Do you recall the last photograph you took of president obama as president. You mean like before noon . Yes, before noon. Probably probably as hes on the dais at the capitol turned around watching trump enter. You know, somewhere around there, it became 12 00, you know, so i dont really i know the picture. I the probably the last picture i took that day, which was, you know, on air force one because he got to use air force one, one last time and they flew to california. And did you go to california . What did. Yeah. And so what was the last picture that day . Probably. One of the things he did was its like i remember the exact last picture, but one of the thing, one of the final things he did was did an individual photo with each member of the air force one crew on the plane. And i remember her at one point, the the pilot came in and i was like, lets do this really quick. Thats great. Right next audience question, whos did you have on the microphone like you, amy okay, i think ill as well. Yeah, sure sure. Interesting. Yeah. Okay. Joining passive mike over. Okay. Ill ask one first. First. Great. Hi, im amy singer with, the British Embassy washington. And i know we talked about diana for Princess Diana and her. The famous photo with John Travolta. Do you have any other fun stories from any other royal visits that you did with either president for the brits. So lets say the royals are not great for access, especially youre on their turf, right. However when president obama and, michelle, were going to visit Kensington Palace palace to visit Prince William and princess kate, i got a call. The before from our advance team and and they said, you know, Prince William really wants you to be there. And we to get you inside before the obamas actually walk in the room because. Prince george is going to theyre going keep him awake. I think he was two at the time. And so it was very coordinator. I show up in the spare limousine. I get out and theres some guy. He goes were going to go through the kitchen, you know, through the kitchen. And then im in the living room before because because prince the prince had gone out to meet the obamas at the motorcade and then they were walking in the room. And so i so i was in there like for a time. They gave me like access. I got these pictures of Prince George on his rocking horse and stuff like that. And of course, at one point, Prince George came over, shook hands with president obama. President obama knelt down and shook his hand. I got that picture. And of course, i was thinking myself, i cant believe 30 years before, you know, i a picture of his grandmother dancing, John Travolta, right. And then so the funny part of the story was it was funny for him to go to bed. Prince george to go to bed. And so their nanny came to get him picks him up and shes walking out of the room and they stop in front of me. The nanny says, say you to the gentleman, meaning me. And Prince George looks at me and goes, thank you very much. All right. Yeah, thats great. Our next question right back here. Hi, dino sanga, thank you so much for being here. My question is, this day and age, with the 24 hour news cycle, people really cycle to analyze pictures and body language a lot. Is there a picture which everyone thinks they have the story but you being in a room where like this is not what happened thats not what they were thinking all that happened all time so so there there was i mean so one of the things that that i had said to the white house staff, because they wanted to start this flickr photo stream where every month we would put up a series of behind scenes pictures. Right. And i was dont i was the holdout. I was the one who said, i dont know if this a good idea or not. And it took them five months to convince me. And then and so what what i finally said to them, i said, you have let me curate the photos. You can say no. And you know, any photos that you dont want out there, but i dont want you like going through every single photo. You got to let the experts that that know how to choose photographs choose photographs and then well present them to you and you can say, you know, i dont know about this one. So thats the way that went subsequently there is this michael shore who started this nonprofit called the pictures, and he would read the pictures, meaning he would write, he would analyze them and like he would write that. I was like, what are you talking like . It was like i put this picture out because was a really stressful economic meeting and i was trying to show people authentically what it was like and then he would like conjure up the white house was trying to do this and show this and i was like, that was not it . At all. So that happened all the time. What did you look when you were hiring another white house. People that were that had had a background in photojournalist who would fit in in the white house. Who would pass a security clearance and and and who were just, you know, the right fit for the job i mean, i had had you know, i had a list of like 12 people that i had, you know that i was going to consider. And im just kind of like interview them and, kind of just whittled it down based on and then its just like a gut and you know, like kind of everything in my life, you make, you make gut judgments on people, right . Do you ever get together other former white house and talk about experiences . Yeah, occasionally. I meet David Hume Kennerly is president fords photographer. Just saw him l. A. When i was out there, i dont know, a month or two ago. And, you know, adam schultz, current photographer, i had a phone call with maybe a week before inauguration just to give him my, you know, 0. 02. And then every once in a while, hell call me with, you know, not sort of a logistics question. I mean, part of it, too, is with him. I know biden pretty well. So i sort of know, you know, the dynamics of working with joe biden in a way that, probably nobody else that he can talk to, you know . Sure. From a photographers. Im trying to think and you know, Michael Evans, sadly, who was the chief photographer under reagan reagans first term, died i mean, at least 20 years ago, i think and i actually keep in touch with his daughters. Well, a special club of people. Next question here. Hi, name is Susan Bennett and thank you so much for the historical record. So be all the photos are so amazing and beautiful. So you had team was it a large team like if you missed the moment or you had others who were the moment or what, how did that work . So to work day though basically i did all the behind the scenes stuff, right . So if if there was a you know, situation room meeting or meeting in the oval office or anything where there wasnt any press coverage, i would cover it. I would be the guy and then we had we had somebody talking michelles solo events so and they would travel with her when wanted on a solo event and then any time there was like a big like press event meaning press there was coverage whether it be in the rose garden, the south lawn or even on trips. I would always have somebody documenting from like sort of the press because oftentimes on those big events, im not in the best spot, you know, and for the archive we want to have the best spot at those big signing and so on and so forth. I think that kind of answers the question were there other women, female photographers. So marianne falkland was the first woman White House Photographer she worked under the carter, carter and Reagan Administration and i worked with marianne, and she assigned to Rosalyn Carter and then with primarily with nancy reagan during the the Reagan Administration. And then the last two years of i think i have. Right. Sharon farmer was the chief photographer for clinton. Bob mcneely did the first around six years and then he left and sharon became the first woman chief white house staffer. Im sure there were moments that you that had to be photographed to be held or embargoed until a certain point. But was there ever a time you were asked not to use or release a photo, or are there photo . And are there photos that are still classified and releasable until a certain date . Theres theres theres i dont know if theres any there are still classified. Theres definitely ones that are held back first. You sensitivity reasons meaning we it our practice in the Obama Administration to make public any of the photographs when he was you meeting with families privately you know after a tragedy you know a case usually there would be exceptions to that but they were very rare. Theres picture in my book from when he met with the sandy families two days after the shooting. Because when i was doing book, i asked the family specifically if, i could use the picture and then i sort of through the process with the national archives. So for sensitivity reasons and then heres one classified example that i know is week or so week or two, i cant remember after the bin laden raid went to some base and i remember where it was the u. S. And he met with entire team, the entire special forces team, including the navy seals guys that were the support team that they, you know, in case somebody had went down there, was it covered then. But like if somebody got sick, they had replacement teams, right. And so he met with all those teams. And obviously for sensitivity reasons, they did. They didnt want pictures of those guys out there. Sure. So those pictures or, you know, at some point in and time will be made public. Right now, those have never been well made public. Another question im david adler on the cover of the book what did you go through to choose that photograph and what was the second one that didnt make . Well, i mean, honestly, im ill try to be diplomatic about this. I dont always agree with publishers on and its funny is in my experiences theyve let me do the book i want to do like i make a file and but not on the cover and i get really frustrated with that. This is kind what i wanted on the cover. It was whats the back where the title was to be in the middle. And this picture was going to be these were going to be moved down because i thought this showed people what the was about and this didnt this like its another obama book right because you can kind of tell thats president obama and i like font but i lost you know so i you know put this on the back and then heres my favorite part about this is if you take off the dust jacket and you see they this is what the book about you know so but like you know its their thinking about selling books and i to you know we need one picture graphic on the cover that you know when its this small online people will see it. So thats i wont cover story i hope my book editors not watching this because i just threw him under table right thanks. We have one question over here. Hi, my name is lee mosley. And i was curious if there were any particular characters or traits about president obama you admired or liked and felt you were really able to capture on your camera and photographs that we could see or, that we could not see. Oh, so what you probably didnt see is hes really got a good sense of humor and hes like the most competitive person ive ever met in my life. You know . And im somebody that played spades with him on, air force one. I got like sometimes it got pretty heated a card game. I got. But i think like, you know, he obviously a decent human being and think you see that in my pictures well well i have one final question that i will oppose in the 222 year history of the white, there have been 19 weddings hosted by the president and first lady and the naomi biden was the recent one, most recent one, and yours was one for her. Tell us how that came about and what that experience was like. You know, im glad i only got married. White house. Thats now the most recent and people can like stop asking me about i mean so the circumstances were you know my wife and i my wife patty and i had been together for like 17 years had never gotten married and you know the first couple of years she came a couple of events. She met president. She came to hawaii when when we to hawaii for christmas. And he used to tell people that he liked her better than me. And then he like started, you know, pestering me. Well, why, you know, why havent you got married . And it came to a head one day on air force one . Michelle was on a and were sitting in a Conference Room and he just starts needling me and hes throwing it at michelle. And im like and he finally says, you know, well have it in the rose garden, then ill officiate. And i was like, sir, i dont want to do that. And hes like, what the . Rose garden is not good enough for you. He actually said that, and i actually said that to him and i said, no, i dont want to put you in a position where. You do this for me and then youre going to get pestered by other people. And he said, no, no, no, this just for you. Im not doing this with anybody else. And so, like, how could you say no to that . Thats right. And so it became a very it wasnt. Most of the staff didnt even know what was going to take place. It was on a saturday. It was just my family and a few friends, very small little, intimate ceremony lasted for 20 minutes, probably in the rose garden. And then we you know, we left and we parted someplace else off off campus you will that he didnt go to. But and we werent going to i mean josh earnest was the press secretary then. He didnt even know the wedding. Oh, wow. Yeah. And so it turns that Kristen Welker from nbc was a stand up on pebble beach or i think they call it pebble beach on the other side of the white house and heard applause coming from what sounded like, you know, it was probably the rose garden and called josh earnest and said, whats going in the rose garden . And josh didnt know. So he called marvin nicholson, who was then his bodyguard. And marvin was at the wedding. So marvin told him. And then josh called me and said, we have to put a statement. And i was like, oh, no, no, no. Like a but we had to put out a statement and. Then we didnt talk about it at all. Thats people just knew there had a small wedding. And then when this documentary film on me was in 2020, i think think the floodgates kind of opened because they interviewed the filmmakers, me and my wife, about the wedding. And then i message president obama and was like, look, theyre not theyre going talk about this in the film. Is it okay with you . We show some of the photos. Well, how did you choose our wedding . Well, because big because the the president wasnt Chuck Kennedy from my staff photograph. The president s involvement in the wedding. Right. You got to go. That was on that those pictures are all the national archives. Wow again and those have never released although we did show some of them. And so well put a foia request in today for that. You could. Yeah. Well when people were like the ap wall street journal, a couple other reporters interviewed me before naomi wedding and wanted to use some of the pictures. I well, youre not getting it from me, but if you want for you, you can. But i dont know if they tried or not, right well, pete, thank you for doing the book. Thank you for sharing this time with us and telling us even more behind the scenes of your birds eye view. Behind the scenes, the reagan and obama presidencies is really a Wonderful Service that you do not just for that president , but for history and the history of the white house and you yourself have lived so of white house history and contributed it. So thank you so much for doing and for the legacy youve left this