Political benefits. He also frequently attended comedies at fords theater and he was known for telling jokes, for his witty stories and selfdeprecation. The ability for a leader or politician to laugh at oneself and at politics more broadly is a hallmark of our democracy. In humor we not only have a to callvalve but a way attention to ideological differences while still maintaining the balance of democratic discourse. Today in these polarized times and as we head toward a president ial election we bring together a panel known for their ability to laugh about the business of leadership and politics. I am pleased to welcome our distinguished guest today. Log before Stephen Colbert and jon stewart mark russell dared to joke and sing about the often absurd political process. Though he actually knew little about politics when he first began performing russells ability to find humor in anything made him an immediate hit. His career spanned from a piano is mark0 years working russell comedy specials on Public Television and radio towards you and college campuses. Until his retirement, mark performed annually at fords theater and we are delighted to have him join us. Thank you, mark. Former congressman joe crowley is a political consultant who provides strategic advice to clients on a wide range of Public Policy matters. Districtented the 14th of new york, including his congressof queens in for nearly 20 years. The former chairman of the democratic caucus, he is also known for his love of music and an odd duet with Stephen Colbert at a famed democratic retreat. Todays moderator is gordon peterson. Gordon is an Award Winning newsletter, and producer. For 25 years he served as moderator and executive producer of inside washington, broadcast in washington, d. C. And many other Major Television markets from coasttocoast. By the time he retired peter and covered local news in the nation s capital for 50 years. We are excited to have this legend with us today. As a reminder to all of our viewers we are taking your questions on our social media platforms. Feel free to submit those so we may share your questions with our guests during the program. It is my pleasure to give this petal over to gordon peterson. Taken away, you all. Have a great time. Gordon thank you, paul. Hello. Joe . Talk to joe you certainly may. Gordon remember that, sarah palin. Joe as long as you do not call me joseph. Ive always believed our ability to laugh at ourselves played a major role in keeping the american experiment alive. Four years ago published a list of americans will be as witty as partisans president s. Abraham lincoln at the top of the list. No surprise there. Millard fillmore, number 44. The sixthgan, wittiest president right behind Calvin Coolidge. Abraham lincoln said it was better to remain silent and be thought a fool and speak up and remove all doubt. Regarding our contemporary politics, for the past few years i have been hearing the same namely you and over, cannot make this stuff up. Find the wild realities of contemporary american politics are making your job more difficult . Easy. Yeah, it is often when i first was aware of Abraham Lincoln i was just a little kid and as a child i had this illustrated book about kim and and it showed his cousin Walking Around in the mud and then they went inside and lincoln picked up his cousin, held him upside down and left muddy footprints on the ceiling. It did that happen . Who cares, but it was believable. You cannot imagine Calvin Coolidge upside down like that. Some people thought lincolns jokes were dirty. They were not dirty. They were earthy. A bunch of guys were talking about the revolutionary war and lincoln said what american colonists should have done was to put pictures of George Washington and all of the british privies, because nothing scares the shit out of an englishman more than general washington. Earthy, right . Before lincoln became president a man from virginia challenged him to a duel and lincoln responded, i accept your challenge, sir, as long as i pick the weapons and the distance at which we stand. Cow manure at5 five paces. Gordon lake it was a genius. He was alwayse] sensitive. If i had to face his do you think i would be wearing this faces do you think i would be wearing this one. There are not many politicians willing to laugh at their own expense. Am i right . Joe whether it is their weight or dress or how they conduct themselves, people are less likely to do it. Paul simon, a former senator was selfdeprecating. Throughout others modern history more selfdeprecating. I have always taken myself lately lightly. Michael marchetti mentioned, i was a great fan of Abraham Lincoln before i knew i was a democrat and he was a republican. I did not actually know Abraham Lincoln. [laughter] felt he knew me. I felt a spirit with him. Because ofolnphile that, and that was portrayed in many of those old black and white movies that went back. The attitude with speeches in the film about lincoln i thought was also appropriate. It did show that earthiness but it was also that selfdeprecation. This lankiness and gangrenous. After 40 every day he gets the phase he deserves. No president was really defined by that face, their nose, the shape of hair on their face, that top that then Abraham Lincoln, and he used that to his advantage politically. Was portrayed as an angry, ugly baboon. A pt barnum figure. Itnum at this museum and featured oddities and weird aople and they called lincoln pt barnum baboon. He went along with it until his own secretary of war joined in the ridicule. He did not like that. It reminds you of a certain president we will not mention whose own secretary of state Rex Tillerson called him a more on or fing more odd to be more specific. Douglas saiden a when he debated lincoln he would be doing very well and lincoln would be telling a joke and it would totally disarm him and he always knew he was going to lose. There was one debate, lincoln your argument was his thin as the soup made from a patient that was starving to death. [applause] assetot think of a better for politics is the ability to get a laugh out of your audience. Am i right . Joe i think it can be very disarming. When you are in the debate, whether it is running for local office, a school board and you are trying to get that attention or that moment, that spark, it or againdone by a quip selfdeprecating humor that breaks the ice and tension sometimes and allows you to be more thoughtful and clear in thought and to use the balance of the joke but at the same time you turn to be serious and that draws more attention to your thoughts, your ability to think on your feet. That gets respect, quite frankly, and not to pick on anyone in particular, but you have to have empathy to be humorous, sympathy for others. It is not funny when you just pick on someone and point out their disability or weakness. It is actually funnier when you pointed out about yourself, and then are able to even use the based onof an argument a page and is starved. There is nothing there but you can read to them. Most on education uneducated person can understand as well. Is myselfdeprecation least favorite form of humor, but you have to know where to put the joke. Ronald reagan knew his age would be brought up with Walter Mondale and he knew. He had that at the ready. Douglas, hete with said he can compress the most words into the smallest ideas better than any man i ever met. [applause] sometimes it helps to go at the issue they are attacking for. Some of us are old enough to remember the 1960s campaigns and the allegation was that is fromr was buying votes West Virginia activity sheriffs, so jack kennedy goes and prepares to have a telegram from his father that says, dear, jack, do not buy one more vote than necessary. I will be dammed if i pay for a [indiscernible] there is a 100yearold joke that still gets a laugh even from people familiar with the joke and that is when will roger said i belong to know organized political party. I am a democrat. And that always gets a laugh among people because it is clever. It is the wordplay, and it is perfect. Let me go back to something. Sensen had a very sharp of humor but he was a kindly man. You in off limits for political humor, joe, as a politician . Joe there is also reporting about lincoln. In his earlier days he was not as nice in his more senior days, and that he was a cutthroat politician at some point as well, but i think that life experience, all that he had gone through and all that he had seen , the richest of the experience that gave him that fluency of experience that added to the value of that storytelling he did. Jokes, think offcolor and that earthiness. The closer you could be too earthy without going over the line the better. , and not just a joke. Someone telling a joke without and at theery flat timing thereof, there has to be a wittiness about that. That is what you look for, but i think making fun of someones it disability or making fun of someone else and their of aility or making fun very ton you be fall flat easily and that as to be careful, having people not understand what you are trying to get at. It has to be meaningful. Linen mark, is there a you do not cross . It takes a special gift you know where that line is. Mark the line keeps changing and i think today you have got to say there is no line when you get a situation and current politics where the straw is broken. Straw, thatoke the is it, and today all of the old rules as far as i have concerned i am concerned do not fly. One of the most quoted lines of lincoln, how can you come in from the battle and bloodshed and tell jokes. Tell jokes, i would cry. Some say i would die. I was in a situation like that a few years ago at the white house correspondents dinner. I was brought in to tell jokes and stuff, but as it turned out the president and misses reagan were there and it was a very sad day because they had just returned from delaware and received the bodies of americans that had been blown up by a terrorist attack in nairobi, so reagan is introduced and he gets up there and says, this is not a night for jokes. Mark russell is better than that, and my stomach starts churning. This is not a night for levity like that, and then i am introduced and i proceed. What i should have done is i agree with the president and set down. I proceeded with my jokes and levity and satire and i bombed like a b29 over hiroshima. Reagansing why do the even show up if he is going to do that. I am no lincoln. Coln was a friend of line mine and i am no a red lincoln. [applause] said hardy luck relieves you. We are in the middle of a pandemic. The horrors of 9 11. How do you fire up after a tragic event like that. It is tough. Livedincoln himself through the most traumatic. In ourmatic period history as a nation. In the attempt to break up the union, the civil war, and life was more difficult back in those days in terms of survival itself. There was not a mcdonalds or starbucks at every block. Self survival was different. And this goes more to the point in terms of it is not so much humor but using wit lincoln did in terms of slavery when he said whenever i hear anyone arguing for slavery i feel a strong impulse to see him try it on him personally. He spoke directly to that issue as to what the morality of it was without having to go through a long dissertation of it. Ie times are tough today and recognize that, but it is not as bad as the civil war, even with the pandemic and Everything Else going on, over one Million People killing each other. We are not at that point and we will hopefully never be back there again. Mark i think we are getting close. Joe i pray not. Mark talking about keeping the country together, general george meade who defeated robert ely sent a wire to lincoln. I have saved the union soil. Lincoln did not like that. No union soil. S it is all american soil. It is when barack obama said there are no red states or blue states, just United States. That was what lincoln was getting at. ,ordon i was going to mention i have been to so many of your shows where you have a Little Something to offend everybody. Manage to get everyone laughing together one of theble] is great ones. My state, red, you are straight, blue. Can you talk about that a little bit . Mark no [applause] no [laughter] that was fun to do. I wish i could deliver on it. That not always succeed at. It upset people and i would say if you do not like nixon now just wait around and the pendulum will swing again, and that was it. The pendulum always swings and i figured i would go with that. The humor usually it is for the president. Stand up there with a scale and weigh one joke against that thebut i find business community, the corporate community, they have thinner skins than the politician. They really do. Ven though they are unelected i used to have a little game that i would play. If i was doing a show for a corporation, right, and i have not gone on yet and i am sitting next to the ceo of the corporation, and i would say to them, now listen, before i go on, i want you to know that i am not going to say anything about the lawsuit. And in every case they say, thanks a lot, i appreciate it. And i do not know if there was a lawsuit or not. [laughter] gordon when you are on the campaign trail. I do not see how you run for office in new york. You have to have a good sense of humor. You are using your best stuff [indiscernible] and everything he says itand everything he says it gets blank stares. How do you recover when you here he is at a funeral getting huge laughs. It was perfect, and then you have senator Daniel Patrick moynihan who was not world. They were all sophisticated. Lincoln has practically no school at all and he can quote spokepeare, but moynahan at a roast of ben bradlee, and you get a hold of that, and to me that was lincoln and then you had molly ivins with her texas hisr and garrison with minnesota lutheran humor and i say this with a straight face. Stories arewobegon mindful of mark twain. They have been around. These are not standup comedians, latenight people, but they had a natural sense of folksy humor. Gordon who was the most fun to work within congress . Joe i was there for 20 years. Ncidentally, mark udall mo udallr was modal , and cousin tom. They both have great senses of humor. And perlmutter of colorado as a great sense of humor. , i had aof my own different experience in the senate, but i think of the music erahe 1970s, of the nixon in particular and before that. Paxton, the kingston trio, your friendly neighborhood ku klux klan, the ballad of spiro agnew. All of the songs i was attracted the kid, but saturday night 1970s and how they approached things in a very controversial way in many respects. I heard recently ethan hawke talking about the influence of richard pryor, eddie murphy, and chris rock, for instance, as being responsible for him learning about racism but it was done through humor, and i had that experience as well. Pearl from hee haw and the grand ole opry, i love to watch her and i thought she was hysterical. I know mo udall and his son too. Two inmates were in federal prison and he turned to the other and said you know, the food was your better when you were governor. There is[indiscernible] stuff you could not get away with 30 years ago you can get away with now. , lincoln got some of ,he material from joke books artemis ward, the humorist of his day. Artemis ward was said to be mark twains humorist and you look at some of these joke books. You had to be there. There is a scene in one of those black and white movies joe mentioned audit recently. Abe lincoln in illinois and he had just met the woman he was going to marry, mary todd, and he said the todds are pretty fancy people. Ds,spelt todd with two that is highfalutin knowing there is only one dn dog. I am looking at the movie and he is in the corner telling jokes. Let me hear what he is going to say it so i can use it. Here the men laughing, and mary has to but him. Mary, you just run along. We are talking politics. It was like that. In our memory, after a dinner party the men would go off to one room and smoke cigars and tell their jokes and women would go to another room and talk about their grandchildren. That is over with, but there were more lines to cross. I would imitate a politician and say, well, senator, are you prolife . I sure am. Are you prochoice . He said, you bet. Comics notse great only open up our minds but our hearts over the years. When i think about lenny bruce carlin,gregory, george i think these had a tremendous impact on our society and our ability to get along with each other, although it is hard to see that through this current campaign. Joe i was not allowed to listen to George Carlin as a kid, which made me want to listen to him more. The parents tried to shelter you from, but they have to say. Lincolnhink president was a great fan of all things shakespeare. I cannot say i am, but there was humor in shakespeare that they were able to laugh at back then. There were jokes or things lincoln alluded to that would learning,tle more depth into finding out what he was talking about. Things that worked in the 1800s, the1860s may not work in 21st century, but the basis is still there, and some things we have repeated ourselves because i think we still find humor or went in those adages, but the lung one thing lincoln comes to whether it is the black and white movies or the read is he definitely understood the power of wit and humor and it was an eight. It was something he was born with. It wore on him and wore him well. Gordon when i first got into the News Business we had three Networks News operations. Dying, wepers are have got cable news and social media. Media changed the way we confront some of the most ridiculous issues of our day, because on the one hand you have the internet. All kinds of whacked out stuff is going on on their. Anyone can find the most absurd conspiracy theories and the go viral. Scaresll of that stuff the hell out of me and makes me grateful that i am retired. Immediately ifer you would go on the radio. There would be an eight second didy, but for example, i larry king a lot when he was just on radio and it was life and it was midnight to 3 00 in the morning, which is when they come out of the woodwork and listen to the radio and you are calling larry king and you get it stuff bleeped out and throws you. It really does throw you. To cut yourm going heart out and feed it to the crows or worse, and so now you cannot blip anything out, censor anything. Lives it has changed our in a significant way. Joe no doubt. I also think personally speaking i am looking for some relief, expecting here is the latest tweet quite frankly. I would like to go back to a day when i did not have to worry about what the last thing the president of the United States had to say. Let a day go by or two without having to worry about that for my personal vantage point, but i also know in terms of my phone or accounts, people are sending or quips all of the time in a joking way, so the new medium is also being used for sending those jokes along the way, those cartoons we are and it is as funny to me as before. You mentioned George Carlin. Gordon anyone can be a cartoonist now. [indiscernible] what you saying . Mark you mentioned George Carlin. I have to put in a plug for the National Comedy center up in jamestown, new york, just south of buffalo, and they cover everything even from lysistrata, and ancient greek play about the women in the village wanting to stop the men from war and so they withheld sexual favors from up tond it is all covered George Carlin and lenny bruce. It is like a smithsonian of comedy and then they have the thereoom, and you walk in sized 1. 5re 1. 5 feet size letters the seven words. There wasnt lenny bruces raincoat so if he got arrested he could just wear the wrinkle. Gordon who are your favorite women performers . Curtin, and jane Rosie Odonnell i think as great as well. Is funny i know the president does not have much respect for her, but i do. I think some of the present players of s l are great, my aunt rudolph and others are politicaland there action is up there as well. You have to have a real sense of what the characters are, what their stance are to pull it off. Mark lily tomlin. Lily tomlin got the Mark Twain Award at the Kennedy Center a few years ago, and she accepted pedestal nexton a to her was a bust of mark twain and she looks down at the bust and says mark twain and i have two things in common. And i amth funny starting to grow a mustache. She is my favorite. [laughter] mayay aunt rudolph rudolph, she did a routine of the National Anthem being aschered at a sporting event is done often, and it is hilarious. Just hilarious. Gordon i always loved alana may. My mind is taken back to the lounge and i would go after leeches. What were some of the best nights you ever had there . Mark first of all, the first show was at 10 30 at night. I am in bed at that hour now. But it was 10 30, the lounge of the hotel. , whichas a bigger room was a big name acts, the blue room big name acts, and that show would be over with and people would come out and that is when i would kick off the 10 30, so we did not have a cover charge, a , and they were not in there to just dote on every pearl of wisdom i was hanging on, but we would have members of Congress Come in there, and i would tell the audience that because senator so and so is , unindicted,lean otherwise he would not be here. Sometimes that would not be the case. Udall would come in there, to oneill, andp nixon people would come in there. Would come ins there. Lyndon johnson would come in Linda Johnson would come in and i would not notice. Same with the nixon girl. Years later i would find that they were there. It was all a lot of fun. Adam clayton powell, the congressman from harlem, he would be in their and he would come in there with two beautiful women, sitting right up front and i am joking about powell and people did not know he was sitting there. Thats powell, that a rascal. It was a lot of fun. It would get wild, because it was so late, but i was there for 20 years, 20 years. Great years. Gordon joke, what were the things i noticed on the hill. It was kind of empty. Bers ago it would republicans and democrats sitting together, having lunch, having a great time. We seem to have lost that. Joe i think there are a lot of reasons for that. There is more than takes place than you know. I always enjoyed being there. I thought it was a great place to dine with folks and experience the full experience of the capital, but i think tip airplane killed congress. People are not in washington, d. C. Anymore. Shuttle back to new york city. The expectation is you will be back home. Tore are a number of issues be thought of. Regardless ofis political party, i am always attracted to people who have that wit, that humor, that self about them. You need to be selfconfident to have wit and humor and those are the folks the people who are away. D stuck up, push both sides of the aisle. Have a friend of mind i great relationship with. John boehner i have a great relationship with because they do not take themselves too seriously. That is a good example. Oneill and [indiscernible] would play cards that night. I am glad to hear some of that is going on. I think that is the way this thing is supposed to work. Joe some stuff still happens. Mark, i will tell you, when you think back over the past several years which of the political comedians do you think i have been the most influential in terms of the way americans approach their government and how they feel about the way the country is being run . This for one thing if election turns out in a certain how do i put this. If it turns out the way the three of us do not want it to turn out without mentioning political will render humor totally ineffectual. These guys late at night have not put a dent in our current president. They really have not. Be whoevert used to made it into the nightly transgressionss in other words became carsontely known, johnny s writers and jay leno terrific as writers would make the , the public will get this. If your name winds up on the monologue you are finished. The name lines up winds up on the monologue every night for four years you think you would knownished, but i do not if anybody ever made a difference as far as comedy. It just lightened things up during these hearings for example. But the immediate thing in other words, you get up there and say i am going to change the world and i want this guy to lose and i want this guy to win. You are just worried about the next laugh. It is incremental. Get a laugh, get a laugh like that. Interested byys and impressed by the fact that in the civil war you had children who were teenagers in that war. You had old men fighting and impressed by that after 9 11, i tried to reenlist in the marine corps. They humor to me. Humored me. They gave me the physical, fill out the form, get permission from my mother and they said we classify you 14f. What is that . As at the corner of 14th and fifth, we will take you. , but we doppen, no not care. Jacob it goes back to Lincoln Holding his cousin. It is possible. It could have happened. Theon you think of smothers brothers cbs killing the show and what is on your , it issocial media astonishing that would happen. It just would not happen today, i guess. Mark they were taken off the air by cbs and replaced by glen and they were full against the war and very , so they still they are retired now but they did do a special show a couple of years so they threw in some gers there,re zin but right now there is not enough of it. There is enough of it in terms it is justght but two legs of straw is broken every night. Did i answer the question . Gordon [indiscernible] one thing about Abraham Lincoln. He had one year of formal education. [indiscernible] he loved to read and although there were not many books available, but somewhere in his preteens between the ages of 11 and 13 he wrote a poem that gives us a clue to his quirky humor. Penham lincoln is handed a he will be good if god knows when. Abraham lincoln was my name i wrote my name it was the same. I wrote it here with proven speed which will be here for full street. Let me correct the record for one thing. Abraham lincoln, the gettysburg address, it was not fully received favorably. A chicago newspaper said it was dull and drab and childish and ash watery compared to another chicago paper, the Chicago Tribune who said after the 1948 campaign between truman so ey, dewey winds, so so much for chicago journalism. Everett, the most prominent orator of the day, but he spoke all that time, so lincoln opened kids address by saying, ladies and gentlemen, it seems like four score and seven years ago when everett started that speech. What would lincoln say if he were here today . I think if lincoln were here while, iwould say, cannot believe that i am 211 years old. Do not factcheck it. He was born in 1809. I can see the millennials Fact Checking now. Great it is been chatting with you. It has been a lot of fun. Mark thank you guys. Announcer this week we are looking back to this date in history. December 7, 1941, a date which will live in infamy. WasUnited States of america suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the empire of japan. Peaceited states was at and thet nation, solicitation of japan still in conversation with its government and its emperor looking toward the maintenance of peace in the pacific. After japaneser air squadrons had commenced bombing in the American Island ambassadore japanese to the United States and his colleague delivered to our secretary of state a formal reply to a recent american message. While this reply stated that it theed useless to continue existing diplomatic negotiations, it contained no hint of war or of armed attack. It will be recorded that the distance of hawaii from japan makes it obvious that the attack was deliberately planned many days or even weeks ago. During the intervening time, the japanese government has deliberately sought to deceive the United States by false statements and expressions of hope for continued peace. Announcer follow us on social media at cspan history for more this day in history clips and posts. Announcer sunday on the presidency, historian douglas frankly discusses Jackie Jackie kennedys tenure with david rubinstein. Here is a preview. Was rememberhouse harry truman had to live in blair house part of the time. Eisenhower got camp david, the fdr, andrila camp of eisenhower had a heart attack and had been endeavor and would go golfing and flyfishing. He was not really a creature of the white house culture, but you are right. In the age of television, the 1950s, nobody had ever seen the white house, what it was like and nobody had any feel for it i all and suddenly everyone was gaping as she led a guided tour, the first lady taking you through, but also because of her children werent so close together and she was a mother you felt this sort of intimacy that you were seeing where the kennedys lived and this new era ,f the 1960s television kennedy was a pioneer of the press conference. Shepardspace with alan or john glenn got bonanza ratings. Of news was only 15 minutes nightly news but when the kennedys were in the white house they expected it to 30 minutes, and even their time up in cape cod got covered. It became a sort of moment in time when the country was really enjoying the fact that 15 years had passed since world war ii had ended to we were in the jet age and the kennedys were this young couple with young kids and the fact that she was willing to be this sophisticated guide through the white house was irresistible television. Announcer learn more about Jackie Kennedys type as first lady sunday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern here on American History tv. Announcer you were watching American History tv all weekend every weekend on cspan3. To join the conversation like us on facebook at cspan history. Announcer while many holiday traditions will be different this year because of the coronavirus pandemic, we can still remember festivities from years past. For the sixth and last time i have come to like this Christmas Tree in the nations capital. As it has been in each of these , my wish is for ,eace and Justice Abroad tranquility at home. Announcer seasons greetings from all of us at American History tv. December 12 march the 20th anniversary of the bush v gort Supreme Court case that decided the 2000 president ial election. This week on real america four archival films on the u. S. Constitution and powers of the Supreme Court. 1959 theom constitution, whose interpretation from a Columbia University series entitled decisions, the constitution in action. This documentary details new world a deal era events and traces the evolving role of the courts in American History. Also from the Columbia University series the constitution and censorship, in 1957 film that uses Supreme Court free speech bases to document the history of censorship law. In 60 minutes a u. S. Information. Ilm this civics lesson describes the Supreme Courts historic role to interpret the constitution and shows how the courts role as a whole. In about 80 minutes a document reproduced by the federal judicial center. Federal courts and the challenge to slavery. Details that complicate the legal and eventually landed the case before the u. S. Supreme court. This is the story of a struggle between a president , franklin d roosevelt, who went to the white house on the pledge of a new deal. And a group of men, once ,eferred to as the nine old men presided over by chief justice