U. N. Secretary. Thank you. Thank you for having us. Were delighted to have you both. So, let me start with you, if i may, doctor. Could you give us a global snapshot of Energy Poverty, where things stand, what populations are affected and what kind of repercussions are for gender equity and employment in the areas of the world that are most affected. Thanks again for having us. I think to just talk about what the Rockefeller Foundation has done and under the leadership of secretary munoz is looking at how we can end this Global Partnership and Energy Poverty. And as you ask, and rightly so, what is the global landscape. Let me start with my own continent. Africa accounts for only 2. 3 of the 270,000 hours of electricity generated. Asia is only 7. 8 . Its africa but also south and central america, its 4. 9 . When you look at those three, africa, 3. 2 , india, 5. 8 , and south and Central Africa america are just 4. 9 , you see theres still large swaths of the global space that is energy poor. When we talk about it, and lets relate it a little bit to the covid crisis, and i think thats one of the reasons why the Rockefeller Foundation and Harvard University wanted to do this together, as many others were on this commission, was to say, you know, one of the things that the covid pandemic has shown us is if we dont have energy, we cant even solve the health crises. On the continent we have local hospitals which dont have enough access to energy. So universal access is a critical part of what were considering as part of the puzzle for ending Energy Poverty. That means essentially looking at the whole stream of how you do both transmission and distribution. One of the things we have seen in this supply chain is there is a force line in the distribution piece of the puzzle. So, a lot of the work that secretary munoz has championshiped has been around what we can do with this framework. We he essentially say how do you bring the whole system, link the generation, link the transmission to the distribution and ensure we can get to the last mile. Because low Energy Consumption across the globe cannot give us the kind of building forward better we are looking for. We need less than 20 of india and less than 5 of china has access in the rural areas to sustainable, affordable electricity. So, this is, i think, a global concern and essentially what were trying to understand is how one can do it in a way that particularly crowds in the private sector, the Public Sector and ensures we have the way to do it in a way that is sustainable. Before we move onto secretary munoz, which ill do in a second, ill ask about the peoples lives. Is this a big rural, urban divide . Are we talking about people cooking with wood . How does it affect gender . I would like to get a sense of the personal impact before we move onto secretary munoz. Im actually glad you asked that question because we have 23 million women across the world, not just in africa but across the world who actually die from respiratory diseases every year because theyre using poor cooking devices. Thats the energy linkage. It is a rural urban divide as well, many in the african countries, same is true for south america and the same is true for south asia. The subcommittees have 70 more access to energy. And the women in particular. In is where were also looking at an inclusive and Sustainable Design for ending Energy Poverty, which ensures we can protect the trees, for example. Theres a lot of work to see how we can restore our greener environment. You can do that and ensure that will be sustainable if women still need to go out and look for wood to cook. I think theres a whole other conversation. Im sure that secretary munoz will bring that in with gas and how we can do better and cleaner cooking stoves. Lets talk turn to you, secretary. Youre one of the cochairs of the Global Commission to end Energy Poverty. Could you tell us how the commission was formed, who the commissioners are, and weve been talking about the dwoopg work. Yes, francis. Let me first make a couple of comments expanding on what she had said. As hinted at, we will be focusing on the Commission First on electricity. Well come back to that. But the cooking issue you have raised is so critical. There is a documentary recently out called switch on that i would recommend. It has a its a terribly emotional scene in terms of the medical requirements of women and children suffering the respiratory consequences of indoor biomass cooking. In fact, a doctor said all of his patients was women and children with respiratory illness. Until that is addressed and we cannot have womens empowerment. We cannot have them engaged in the economy until these issues are resolved. So thats very, very important. On the commission, to go back to that well, first of all, there are three coshares, myself with my hat at m. I. T. , where the principle analysis was done, but rod shaw, the ceo of the Rockefeller Foundation, is a coshare and rod emphasizes the Rockefeller Foundation supported this work because addressing Energy Poverty is a necessary condition for addressing poverty more generally. So, that really is the perspective that he brought to the table. The third coshare is the president of the African Development bank. Clearly, while subsa har yan africa is not the major focus, so it brings in the perspective of how are we going to bring together the capital to help the kinds of transitions we have. The commission was rounded out by many others i wouldnt go into by name, but, fwrampl, investors in infrastructure, but government and quasi government officials who will have enormous responsibilities, which well, perhaps, come back to, and a number of individuals who have long experience in, for example, in initiatives such as power africa, which was started in the Obama Administration to address the electricity and lighting needs in africa specifically. But youre also right that the Energy Access issue is not one just in developing countries. Clearly there is the major focus. Hundreds of millions of people without proper Energy Access. One could argue about a third of the global population without adequate Energy Services. Right here in the united states, frankly, if one goes to things by the native american lens, one finds a very, very disheartening lack of Energy Services in many cases. So, this is a big problem. Its absolutely critical. And i would just say as well, you mentioned briefly covid. When the commission started just over a year ago, i dont think any of us dreamed that today because of the covid crisis, we probably have more people without electricity access than we had a year ago. Because many who gained access, you know, these countries always catch the cold first when theres a global event. And the Economic Impact has led to many people not being able to afford any more, the access that was so hard won over these last years. Right. Doctor, youre on this commission and the goal is universal electricity access, as we said. Thats going to involve partnerships between policymakers, utilities, investors. What do those partnerships look like . How are you moving towards them . And what are the barriers in different parts of the world . What are you up against . We have done a couple were not up against as much as it is trying to see whether we can bring the right coalitions together. And i think first the coalition and commission is one of them. Secretary munoz has talksed about the fact we have the private sector, the Public Sector and a lot of sifl society with us. Actually, the academics as well. And i think for example a partnership we have with rescue africa which is under the operation and one of the also Global Investment for Sustainable Development group set up by the United Nations secretarygeneral, that brings together a very substantial group of private sector investors, millions of dollars, interested in looking for investment in Renewable Energy. When you look at again the african continent, only 2 of global new Renewable Energy capacity was installed in africa over the last ten years. For all the conversations we have about Renewable Energy, the cost of the drop in Renewable Energy and more investment, africa has only been able to attract 2 of that. One of the things were trying to do is understand what is it that is stopping or hindering those types of investments . A big part of it, and thats one of the things the commission talks about when they do the integrated development framework, the fact that the distribution, the utility companies, because of not the appropriate adjustments, and thats your conversation, what are we up against . Were up against the need for affordable Accessible Energy versus the need for financing that is also affordable to build energy. I think one of the issues were talking about is how can we do projects in local currency . When you do a hydroelectric power plant its financed in dollars but the rural citizens most often are paying for that energy in local currency that is also subject to the variations of Macro Economic, the covid crisis has led to many of our currencies depreciates and it becomes expensive. We need to be able to find some way of doing reflective cost and tariffs but to do that we need to move to more local currency financing of a lot of this investment were putting in place. Of course, the overall Macro Economic environment is but but another thing were doing and the commission has stressed thats very important is it is local technical assist abc. What were doing actually, primarily with the commission, is to launch what were calling the team energy africa, which is essentially bringing together all of the african industrial to say what can we do as a continent . There is team europe, and we are hoping we can create a cluster in africa that can respond to team europe when they come or respond to power africa when they come under the dfc and others to say, we have to do this in partnership. Probably when we do that, we can also then find local Insurance Companies on the continent that can buy down the cost of this investment. I think its a cluster of things. First you need to bring in continental producers. In india, we talked about the low access in india but because there are indian suppliers, captains of energy, the energy sector. We can see access is increasing at a much faster rate. We believe we should emulate Something Like that on the african continent. Just before i move on, i want to ask specifically, is the one area in africa, one small model where things are working well that youre trying to broaden . You know, the attraction of independent producers on the continent has done really well. Many, many countries that have started that, kenya, senegal, south africa has been the leader in this, we see a lot of progress, a lot of investment. Again, a project launched by the ifc is the solid power project which has been scaling solid. In zambia we have it, senegal, morocco. One thing we understood was standardization of these programs. You can standardize it, investors know what to expect, the countries know what to offer and it makes it much easier to close on those deals. Secretary, could you talk about the Data Analytics and other progress that could make a big difference in this area. Certainly, the Technology Progress in providing energy, particularly clean energy, has been very, very dramatic. Solar energy, wind energy, including the storage that one needs to be able to use the, for example, the solar energy at night as opposed to during the day. The rapid cost reductions here, i think, are going to provide dramatic opportunities to have support for african buildout quite rapidly of the new energy technologies. A couple of points i do want to emphasize. We have to recognize one of the pillars really of the commissions work has been that we cannot look at offgrid and onGrid Solutions as kind of two different things. We need the integration of on and off Grid Solutions because the issue, it isnt about ideology in terms of how one best to have distributed generation or the like. Its about universal access and the universal Access Solutions are going to have to be looked at in an integrated way with the combined urban and rural populations of these countries. Technology is going to allow that to happen more easily. I think actually its probably worth stating that just like everywhere in the world, the projections, democratic projections are for enormous urbanization in africa, so i think we need to not have everything looks like a nail because i have a hammer. We have multiple technologies, multiple ways of integrating them using i. T. You alluded to i. T. , for example. Using i. T. To really serve the population that needs universal access. In saying that, again, something you alluded to earlier, francis, maybe well come back to it, but the reality is, and frankly when i speak with africans who are very knowledgeable about the developments in energy that are needed, that would include vera, they all say that, look, we have to have in africa, subsaharan africa, real focus on industrial development, so thats going to require as well, certainly for some considerable period, more internal utilization in africa of the enormous natural gas finds that have been happening in both east and west africa. So i think we have to keep in mind the goals, Economic Development, universal access and, of course, as low carbon, a trajectory as can be as can be realized in putting together a coherent collusion. Again, universal access, integration of on and off grid, focus on development. And as vera said, creating financially viable systems to provide the electricity, the energy, not with a shortterm focus but with a longterm focus. All must come together. And it will be technology, but it will also be things like significant elevation and best practices, et cetera, in terms of regulation, without stable, predictable regulation, it would be hard for the loadserving entities we need to really put in the Capital Investment to serve the peoples needs. Just quickly, if you can. These are all big questions. Tell me what the private sector fits in here. How do we make sure they act in the interest of Broad Development rather than their own interest . Whats their role and how do you regulate their investment . Well, the private sector, first of all, theyre absolutely essential because otherwise it will be very hard to see the capital accumulation that one needs to realize the development that we are hoping for. Again, its no different in africa or anywhere else. If its private capital coming in, some certainty for a substantial period, call it 20 years, a concession being awarded, for example, with specific milestones for universal access, reliable access to electricity, that has to come. Frankly, and vera could comment on this probably more expertly than i, but looelts lets just say those two conditions are very uneven, at the moment, in subsaharan africa. I think we need to bring the best practices, which have been demonstrated in various places to bear. For example, one of the recommendations of the commission is to establish an African School of regulation. Maybe at one of the universities in africa, for example. And really bring cutting edge experience of regulation across the globe to bear so that there can be more uniformity. Uniformity across countries will also encourage other important developments such as Regional Power pools where several countries can come together regionally and provide more efficient, more reliable, more affordable electricity as a regional effort. Clearly, if you have different policies, different rules across boundaries, that becomes very, very difficult. So theres a lot to do, but by the way, were very encouraged in terms of progress towards this regulatory school, for example, of being founded. Well see. But its looking quite promising. Were getting a little short of time. I would like to be able to ask you a couple of questions that have been sent in by readers. Im going to read this. This is barrymore from virginia who asked, how would you characterize chinas influence and impact in africa . Thank you for that question. And let me use the question to answer a little bit of what were talking about. Africa has decide you know, were going to go to net zero. However, between now and getting to net zero, africa still needs to grow. We need to ensure our economies have the right ways to grow. One area china has abundant material for raw material is gas and hydro. Hydro china is one of the leading builders of hydropower. I think one of the things were doing is working with china, the french, the americans to ensure we do build the right kinds of hydropower plants on the continent, but also we begin to i think we have a little interruption in our connection which were trying to rebuild at the moment, so please stay with us. Francis, maybe i could inject a little comment on china as were waiting please do. Waiting for vera to come back. And i think one of the issues is that i think as many countries, vera mentioned several, come in and be part of the infrastructure, that i think its very important that we lost the connection. To build up local capacity, local workforces. I think china may not be quite there in terms of the necessary building of indigenous capacity. I think we have the doctor back with us. Did you want to finish your okay, we do not. Thank you both very much for joining us today. Im sorry about that interruption at the end of the segment. It was a fascinating conversation. Well be back in a few minutes as we hand it over to the Rockefeller Foundation on business. Thank you very much to you both. Thank you. Hello, im elise labott. To galvanize Global Action behind the acceleration of delivering sustainable and costs effective electricity access to hundreds of millions of underserved homes and businesses. Im joined by ashvin dayal who leads the Rockefeller Foundation, power and climate, and rob stoner, Deputy Director of m. I. T. Energy initiative, who it working with rockefeller to produce highquality research and evidence behind these goals. Ashvin, lets start with you and talk about the ties with poverty and lack of access to energy. I hear you at rockefeller call access to energy the socalled global thread that kind of leads together economic and vishltal sustainability. Well, thank you, elise. Yeah, i think if you think about the relationship between poverty and Economic Development and the importance of energy as a sort of driver and enabler of that has only grown at an increasingly interconnected world. If you think about life as a farmer 50 years ago versus today, the pathway to upward mobility to gain more you need access to cold chain for cold storage for your produce or for machinery for processing so electricity and access to electricity has become sort of an increasingly important facet of economic mobility, of economic inclusion. When we look at the diagram between Energy Poverty and poverty, its increasingly overlapping. Thats why we say if we really want to end poverty in the 21st century, were going to have to end Energy Poverty. The question then becomes, how do you do that . This is where we see such enormous Transformational Energy today, because of what changes weve seen with technology and price of technologies over the last 10, 15 years. Just opening up a much more diverse set of options, especially for lowincome economies that cant necessarily afford to built out centralized grid everywhere its needed in todays economic context. I think a lot of people dont make the connection between poverty and access to electricity. Well talk more about that. But, rob, youre focused on identifying and addressing the barriers to achieving universal and economically impactful electrification. So tackling a system and delivering that road map to affordable and Reliable Energy, its got to be, i would think, a kind of multisectoral mission. It is. The electricity system is gigantic, even in small countries with small electricity systems. And it spans a range of subindustries. Were focused largely on the african problem. And africa is distinctive because many of the utilities, almost all of the electric utilities are structurally insolvent. Thats a very challenging problem. And the reason that happens is the people trying to serve at the other end of the line are poor, by and large, and cant afford to pay the price. And this political pressure that forces the Electricity Companies to drop what they can charge, socalled tariffs, which creates a lot of distress for them as well. Spo a lot of the challenge were dealing with of providing electricity access to everyone is improving the Business Condition of those electric utilities. And that means that you have to take advantage of opportunities to use novel technologies like solar, for example, thats finding its way into Rural Communities to make it less expensive for the utilities to serve people who live in farflung areas. This is sort of the low the last mile problem we used to talk about in telecommunications and its very much the problem in the electricity system. So, ashvin, this brings us to the Global Commission to end Energy Poverty, so as you work towards an inclusive and equitable recovery from covid19, i know the commission has prioritized universal electricity access for Economic Development. And talk to me about the economic case for such a massive investment in energy as a key priority when the needs across the board for Covid Recovery are so great. Thats a very fair question. And i think clearly the needs in the context of the covid crisis are enormous and diverse. We see the challenge particularly through two major lenses. There is obviously the immediate and Ongoing Health crisis. This is not just a crisis for today. Its going to take several years to see the rollout of an adequate treatment regimes and vaccines across the world. Especially in some of the least development markets or in groups who traditionally get excluded from access to vaccines. Thats a critical, critical niche we have to address. But if you think about how the covid crisis has been experienced in so many parts of the developing world, its been experienced primarily as an economic crisis. When youve seen economies locking down for weeks on end, when youve seen a massive contraction in industrial and Economic Activity, when youve seen access to markets disrupted, the data weve been gathering with partners around the world for the last seven, eight, nine months has been, you know, frankly, quite depressing and distressing. India a couple of months ago announced a 22 reduction in gdp. And weve seen this play out in the most sort of impactful way for some of the poorest people around the world. The bank, the world bank use an expanded definition of poverty estimate half a billion people could go back into poverty as a result of this crisis. When you look at the crisis from its broader economic perspective, the question becomes, why energy . Energy because it is a key part of the Economic System that can create opportunities in the near term and then create lasting economic growth. As rob mentioned, weve seen enormous innovation in technologies like Solar Storage that makes distributed renewables an increasingly viable part of the ecosystem of electrification. These systems can be rolled out quite quickly. In order to roll them out in local areas, they create jobs in the near term for construction and installation. They create ongoing jobs in terms of maintenance and, of course, they support productive use activities within local economies, whether its for Agricultural Processing or offfarm activities. What we believe at this point is this is an investment not just in addressing a crisis for today and tomorrow, but it is, as has often been the moments in great crisis, investment in the kind of infrastructure thats going to serve us for the next 20, 30, 40 years and allow hundreds of millions of people to lift themselves out of situations, of poverty or underdevelopment. And thats why we think energy at the heart of the response to covid is so critical and so important. So, rob, the commission is advancing m. I. T. s concept of this integrated distribution framework. Talk to us about these Guiding Principles that are informing the solutions for delivering affordable electricity and this kind of investment based on viability, on distribution and grid and Renewable Energy. Well, right. Our keyword here is integration. Were talking about integration in several dimensions. Integrating across technologies, certainly, and offgrid as well as ongrid technologies is part of that. Integrating across urban and Rural Communities. Integrating across different parts of the value chain involved in electricity. The idea with the integrated distributed framework is pretty straightforward. Well remind people of what works in utilities, that we have in the advanced economies. That is to say, a recognition that you have to serve everybody. You cant pick and choose. Its especially important in developing countries because one way to make a utility financially viable very quickly is to drop all the poor customers. Theyre expensive to serve. And focus on commercial and industrial customers. But weve insisted in this framework that they have to focus on everybody. And furthermore, that they have to combine, as i was saying the use of on and offgrid technologies in a way that makes sense. One of the challenges with offgrid technologies is theyre typically sold by Small Entrepreneurial Companies who have a good idea for delivering them, but theres no guarantee when they sell them to a rural farmer, for example, that theyre going to be there in the future to continue to provide service. So, weve talked about integrating that kind of offgrid delivery within the sphere of the regulated utility. In other words, bringing these businesses together in a way. That doesnt mean integrating them into a single business necessarily but into a single enterprise that collectively has an obligation to serve everyone for the long term. That means that if the offgrid provider fails, the utility that it is working or it is integrated with in providing Service Takes over as the provider of last resort. Thats critically important when youre talking about ensuring service because delivering on value in the economy really requires reliability in service and cost, so, this is an opportunity to try to use new technologies and the energy of different parts of the private sector to make the University Work effectively. Were running out of time but i know you have some first action countries and i want to make sure theyre recommended for full or partial implementation. We mention to, rewanda, colombia, nigeria and india. Well be looking for information on that. Ashvin, as we close, government and philanthropic groups like rockefeller are recognizing the ties between poverty and lack of energy, but weve seen collective action is slow and incremental. How do we engage with these governments and global institutions to support adoption of these principles and convince them that universal access to electricity is to those in need is the single best way to fight poverty . Well, i mean, often the case the governments dont need convincing. They need resources and support. There are 800 Million People unconnected to the grid. There are probably about 3 billion people who lack access to Reliable Energy or Electricity Services and thats holding them back. Its suppressing their economic opportunities. I think what it really needs is a sort of much more comprehensive Public Private partnership where we can bring capital, you you subsidies into play as well as the opportunity for the private investor to come in and invest. Without heavy investment by the Public Sector and unlocking opportunities for the private sector. We really need to adopt the same principles as we look at some of the developing economies that this report speaks so. Thats why this integrated distribution framework is really so important because that is the framework by which we can produce and create really largescale partnerships that will allow these economies to achieve universal electrification, firstly, so urgently, more cost effectively and more impactfully because we really focus on serving productive needs of the economy. Well, i think this discussion shows its not just powering our homes but communicating with the outside world, lighting streets and helping business operate, electricity is really the foundation on which modern communities and commerce run and thrive. So, something no one should have to do without. Ashvin dayal and rob stoner, Deputy Director for science and technology at the m. I. T. Energy initiative. Thank you for joining us. Back to the Washington Post. Welcome back. If youre just joining us, im franc frances stead sellers of the Washington Post. Who u. S. Mayors who have been leading the charge for renewable, sustainable energy. Thats jon mitchell of new bedford, massachusetts, whos also the chair of the Energy Commission at the u. S. Conference of mayors, and sam liccardo of san jose, california, a very warm welcome to you both. Thank you, frances. Delighted to have you. Let me start with you, if i may, mayor liccardo. San jose is one of the largest cities that has an allelectric mandate in the works. Can you talk to me a little bit about what that means for your consumers, both residents and businesses. Well, for us the important thing was first making sure we could green our grid, because if were going to push folks toward using electric over gas, we needed to make sure sources of electricity are also green. So, we adopted a Community ChoiceEnergy Program a couple years ago, became the largest city in the country to do so, that really enables our residents and businesses to choose their source of electricity. What thats done is really shifted us considerably. Were now consuming with 330,000 users now across more than a million residents, consuming about 86 of our electricity is ghg free. 92 next year. Thats a really important first step, is greening the grid, as jons doing in new bedford. The second step then is pushing Economic Activity onto the grid from gas. In our case in san jose that meant electrifying our buses at the airport, electrifying train systems, and, of course, electrifying buildings. Were the largest city in the country to pass an allelectric mandate on new construction of buildings to really try to, again, push the economy toward this much greener grid. We had initial challenges certainly. We know there are some new technologies that need to be tested and so forth, so we need to give folks time to make those adjustments. We believe the community has come along. They appreciate that. They can save a lot of costs up front and not having to install that gas infrastructure. What does this do for energy costs, electricity costs for the average consumer there in san jose . Well, through the San Jose Clean Energy initiative, were able to provide electricity, procure electricity at a cost slightly below the cost of the pg e and were able to do that because were not burdened with legacy contracts that those investorowned utilities have from decades ago when clean energy was of more closely. Today were able to procure solar and investing in new solar energy at a much lower cost than they were 15 years ago. Before we move over to mayor mitchell, talk to me briefly about Community Choice ener aggregation and what that means . Im sorry, frances, that was for me, not jon . Yeah. Typically the way its done out in california, we have investorowned utilities that procure, generate electricity, purchase electricity in large wholesale contracts, and then distribute it. Weve essentially taken over the wholesale generation business from pg e here in san jose and other cities throughout Northern California have done it as well. We now have 10 million californians benefiting from Energy Choice programs. We procure the energy. The investorowned utility owns the wires and they distribute it. And were able to procure it at a much lower cost. And were able to reap those savings publicly that we can then reinvest in Energy Savings in various ways. For example, reducing cost for our residents, be able to go solar or being able to invest in more Innovative Technologies using hydrogen for fuel cells. Mayor mitchell, if i may come to you. You, as i said, are the chair of the Energy Committee on the conference of mayors. You met in july, i believe. What was the takeaway as a countrywide perspective as we move towards more renewable and sustainable forms of energy . Yes. Thanks for the question, frances. And thanks for having me. Just want to give a shout out to sam liccardo. Hes been such a fabulous leader in this space, among the biggest cities in america. So were at an interesting point now in the country. Obviously, with the president ial transition going on. Over the last few years, despite the lack of attention to reducing the Carbon Footprint of every city and town, large and small across across the country on the part of the federal government, weve seen cities make progress still. Were at a point now where the vast majority of cities have made the transition to l. E. D. Lighting, they retrofitted many of their major municipal buildings, and have reduced waste and have done all the things at the municipal level that we expect mayors to be doing, despite the countries opting out of paris. Were at a point now where were seeing, based on u. S. Conference of mayors survey, that mayors want to do more still. Theyre prepared to do it. And whether its in the generation side Going Forward with more solar or on the in efforts to reduce consumption by retro fitting buildings or transitioning to electric vehicles and their municipal fleets, promoting similar practices in the private sector, were ready, but we need a federal partner to accelerate those efforts. And i think so it is timely that a new administration is coming in. You had on the earlier segment former secretary of energy moniz, who was great with cities. And he understood great with cities, and he understood that the federal government could be a very constructive partner in advancing our efforts, whether it was through Grant Programs that increased the capacity, especially smaller midsized cities to understand to reduce their footprints to the facilitation of their energy facilitation and block grants which will be in front of congress very soon. Were at an auspicious time right now, but there is a willingness to participate, so we are hopeful the Biden Administration will be there with us. Thank you for talking could you also talk to me a little bit about new bedford . Can you tell me what lessons you have learned locally that has informed your discussion on this broader national level. Right. So a few years ago, we saw the opportunity to establish ourselves as a leader in Energy Efficiency and conservation as having multiple benefits. Obviously there is the potential for us to save on electricity costs, so we dove right into the development of solar in municipal buildings as well as in public spaces, especially in former landfills, including one superfund site. At one point the wall street journal said that we had new bedford had more installed municipal solar capacity per capita than any city in the continental u. S. I guess honolulu beat us, but they have a little more sunshine than new bedford, so it wasnt exactly fair, but we made a lot of progress in the way we redoubled our recycling, we have garbage compact trucks that are automated and got trash off the street, we have built up the largest electrical vehicle fleet in massachusetts. We promoted this greener ethic in the city through our efforts because we take, even in a city of only 100,000, we take we want to cultivate the idea that we should be seeing some responsibility in our corner of the world for reducing our Carbon Footprint and doing our part to combat Climate Change. At the same time, in new bedford, which is the largest commercial fishing port in the united states, is pivoting in the direction of offshore wind. The offshore wind industry is going to arrive in ernest, we believe, in the next couple of years, will arrive from europe where it has been an industry in the last quarter century, so there will be a big rampup to that, and new bedford is the closest industrial port of many places where wind farms will start to be built. Those efforts in advancing the wind industry as its just getting here is, again, all of a piece. We want to be seen as a place thats not as older and industrial and gritty, but forwardleaning, green and progressive, and in that way it certainly helps the city brand and helps our residents feel like theyre part of something bigger. Thank you. And i believe your city council is about to vote on a city gas ban, maybe november 1st with a few exceptions. What will that do to your city . How will that affect the grid . We know it puts more demands on the grid so we have to work with resiliences. Thats been a challenge with power shutoffs and other issues weve had on the grid, so it means we need to push the regulators and certainly utilities to make the investments they need to make to provide a resilient grid. As i think many cities are moving toward electrification, frankly, many cities havent caught up with where we are. New bedford, theyre certainly a leading effort, but there are many cities following that path. So we need a really National Strategy around Grid Resilience that hadnt emerged from the last administration. Mr. Mitayor mitchell, what de experience in new bedford tell you about job creation . Certainly in the wind space, that is going to be the source of literally tens of thousands of jobs on the east coast in the next few years. You know, the job creation potential is obviously a strong rationale for promoting that industry in addition to its Climate Change benefits. But we also know that even at the municipal level, for instance, for the Solar Projects that weve done, it creates a number of local jobs for folks, especially during a time of right now of economic concern, its offering the possibility for jobs at good wages and both among installers as well as assemblers of the solar parks that are continuing to be built here. But we also know that by reducing electricity costs, it benefits all businesses. You know, some businesses obviously are industries are more Energy Intensive than others, but the more we can drive down costs while being greener certainly helps everybody. The healthier we are, the lower we can reduce the cost of energy as a major input, the more likely it is that jobs would be created. Thank you. I have a question from our audience that i would like to read to you. It comes from pete bull from new york that asks, what is the forecast for battery innovations that could raise the co acceleration and lower the costs of solar for residential and businesses alike . I think they have been evolving quickly because we need those costs to come down dramatically to make Battery Storage for realistic for the creation of micro grids that would rely entirely on renewable solar, and to be able to store the energy locally in a distributive way. Were building a micro grid right now with google in the center of our city that we hope will be a great example for cities throughout the country. That will provide resilience, and obviously, if were relying entirely on renewables like solar, we wont be emitting any Greenhouse Gas emissions. We need batteries to come along a bit further, so in the meantime well need bridge technologies to develop those micro grids that will be essential for us to achieve our financial future. Maybe we can talk specifically about new bedford and then talk about the issue again across the u. S. At the conference in mass. I think its the same here as it is in san jose, and he is exactly right, Battery Storage in many ways is the holy grail of renewables in the future, if it can be done efficiently. It will open up all sorts of new opportunities for distributive energy systems. I agree with everything sam said, i would just add one other point. We are reminded of the need for Renewable Distributed Energy by way of micro grids every time weve had a Natural Disaster in this country. If you think about the set of hurricanes that hit the east coast just a couple of years ago and some of the disasters that happen tragedies that happen as a result of a loss of electricity to critical facilities like hospitals and Nursing Homes and other facilities. We think that if those places had access to micro grids that were sourced by solar or wind that that might have literally saved lives. So it makes us more resilient. The micro grids with effective Battery Storage would make us more resilient on several dimensions, i think. Yeah, that brings me to a question for matt acado about an ownership youve talked about. What does that look like for california . Is it a blueprint for the rest of the country . The truth is the rest of the country is actually well ahead of us on this. There are about 900 customerowned utilities around the country. Typically theyre pretty small utilities, mostly rural. So were participating in the largest customerowned utility in the country by essentially trying to take over pg e with the consent of the customers. We did not succeed in the latest battles. The company has been successful in retaining corporate and shareholder ownership through the last bankruptcy. You know, the good news is we know that theyre pushing in some ways to correct some of the sins in the past, and some of the sins i mean are failing to invest efficiently which results in the wildfires and safety hazards that have really devastated communities out here with wildfires. But we also know the bad news is that this is a company thats already still teetering. They have an enormous amount of debt. They may be back in bankruptcy again, and i suspect well be back in the legislature urging them to return control of the company to customers. There has actually been some legislation thats passed that could make this easier for us in the meantime, and so we are waiting, ready. Weve got more than 200 local Public Officials that signed up saying were ready to push. We think its time for customers to own the utility theyre paying for. Are there other specific regional models youre looking at, matt acado . I think the real cooperative has been a model of utilities that has existed for decades. What were learning about it is that they actually have less capital than investment opportunities. When they need to make those safety investments and resiliency investments, they can do so by going to Capital Markets at lower cost and they arent obligated to pay shareholders dividends and returning larger returns to shareholders in share prices. Theyre also not paying executives kwiquite the same salaries that maybe the owned utilities are. We think there is a lot of efficiencies in the old model that probably need to be explored more. I do want to talk to you both about the things our cities have suffered. And maybe, mayor, you could talk about covid and also the energy sector. Its been a struggle here as it has been everywhere else. New bedford, you know, relatively speaking, has a Large Industrial work force, as i mentioned. We are the largest commercial fishing port in the country, but were also the center of seafood processing in the united states. So as a result, a big portion of our work force is not in any position to work remotely. You know, if your job is on a factory floor or on the deck of a scalloper in the north atlantic, zoom doesnt do you any good. It means we have a lot of people, and still do, of people going to work. That certainly raised the degree of difficulty here higher than most places. We had large work forces in buildings not taking any time off as a result of the pandemic. So we had to take a number of steps to mitigate risk. We put in place a set of work force Workplace Safety precautions or sort of an oshalike set of rules that early on separated folks out on especially in seafood processing plants. We looked at the experience of many cities in the midwest that had meat packing plants and we envi envisaged a similar set of circumstances here. We didnt have major outbreaks in those plants. We took tests to test fishing crews before they went out to sea. We also did a few other things that were a little bit different from everyone else, where we happened to be the city that had one of the largest soup manufacturers in the country, joseph laboot, which took it on the chin. There arent many people buying suits these days, but they entered into making masks, and we entered into an agreement where they would make masks for all our city residents. Were one of the first four cities in the country to do that. We have given out 400,000 masks, and i think the pervasiveness of mask wearing here has certainly helped our cause. A number of things that weve done along the way like that to try to just get out ahead of the virus. As it is, in san jose as it is everywhere, there is still a ways to go, and, you know, were hopeful about the vaccine. Its the light at the end of the tunnel, but vaccines plural, but we all know thats a long tunnel at this point. Mayor liccardo, thank you very much. I think we have time for one more question. What impact is the covid having on your industries . We see this in the city as well. We see innovators like jon in new bedford, theyre really leading the way. Similarly with covid, i think were seeing a large innovation emerging from cities. We were the first city to have an eviction moratorium. In l. A. Theyre testing using really rapid lowcost testing that i think could be informative if we can adopt it as a way to make predictions on outbreaks ahead of time. A lot of mayors are really willing to take risks because they know the consequences are too great if they dont. I hope that now with a new federal administration were going to have a president and an administration thats going to embrace the innovation thats happening in cities throughout the country to address these crises. Mayor liccardo, mayor mitchell, thank you both for joining us. Thank you. It was a delight to have you. I was excited to learn about your two cities. Thank you. We have a great lineup for next week, so please mark your calendars. On monday president obama will be at Washington Post live at 11 30 in the morning eastern to talk about his new book, his memoir. It is the first online interview he will do on his book tour, and it will be with my colleague elizabeth lawrence, and also the president of the foundation. And then at 1 00 p. M. Monday, we have bob costa talking to Anthony Fauci about the next steps in the covid crisis. Make sure you have both things on your calendars and we look forward to some great conversations. Many thanks today. I im frances stead sellers. Tonight we hear the experiences of three women who reflect on their time working on the apollo space program. They share how they overcame challenges in their roles at nasa. Watch beginning at 8 00 eastern. Enjoy American History tv every weekend on cspan3. Every saturday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on American History tv on cspan3, go inside a Different College classroom and hear about topics ranging from it is american revolution, civil rights and u. S. President s to 9 11. Thanks for your patience and for logging in to class. With most College Campuses closed due to the impact of the coronavirus, watch professors transfer teaching to a virtual setting to engage with their students. Gorbachev did most of the work to change the soviet union, but reagan met him halfway. Reagan encouraged him, reagan supported him. Freedom of the press, which