Transcripts For CSPAN3 Presidential Debates 2000 Presidential Debate - Al Gore V. George W. Bush 20240712

Highly contested races in u. S. History. The outcome was not decided until five weeks after the boaters went to the polls, when the u. S. Supreme court stopped the florida recount. This awarded the states electoral votes to president bush. Mr. Lehrer good evening from the field house at Washington University in st. Louis. Im jim lehrer of the newshour on pbs. And i welcome you to this third and final campaign 2000 debate between the democratic candidate for president , Vice President al gore, and the republican candidate, governor george w. Bush of texas. Lets welcome the candidates now. [applause] before proceeding tonight we would like to observe a moment of silence in memory of governor mel carnahan of missouri, who , along with his son and his former chief of staff, died in a private plane crash last night near st. Louis. A reminder, as we continue now, that these debates are sponsored by the commission on president ial debates. The formats and the rules were worked out by the commission and the two campaigns. Tonights questions will be asked by st. Louis area voters who were identified as being uncommitted by the gallup organization. Earlier today each of them wrote a question on a small card like this. Those cards were collected and then given to me this afternoon. My job, under the rules of the evening, was to decide the order the questions will be asked and to call on the questioners accordingly. I also have the option of asking followups which in order to get to more of the panels questions. For the record, i plan to do sparingly and mostly for clarifications. The audience participants are bound by the following rule. They shall not ask followup questions or otherwise participate in the extended discussion. And the questioners microphone will be turned off after he or she completes asking the question. Those are the rules. As in winstonsalem last week, no single answer or response from a candidate can exceed two minutes. There is an audience here in the hall and they have promised to remain absolutely quiet, as did their predecessors this year in boston, danville, and winstonsalem. Before we begin, a correction from last weeks debate. I was wrong when i said Vice President gores Campaign Commercials had called governor bush a bumbler. That specific charge was made in a press statement by Gore Campaign spokesman mark fabiani, not in a tv guide. Vice pres. Gore im glad you clarified that. Gov. Bush im glad you clarified that. Mr. Lehrer now, lets go to the first question. Of over the 130 questions we received from this panel, we will begin with one of the 19 on health issues, and it goes to you, mr. Vice president , and it will be asked by james hankins. Mr. Hankins . Mr. Hankins how do you feel about hmos and Insurance Companies making the critical decisions that affect peoples lives instead of the medical professionals, and why are the hmos and Insurance Companies not held accountable for their decisions . Vice pres. Gore mr. Hankins, i dont feel good about it, and i think we ought to have a patients bill of rights to take the medical decisions away from the hmos and give them back to the doctors and nurses. I want to come back and tell you why, but if you will forgive me, i would like to Say Something right now at the beginning of this debate following on the moment of silence for mel carnahan and Randy Carnahan and chris sifford. Tipper and i were good friends with mel and randy, and i know that all of us here want to extend our sympathy and condolences to jean and the family and to the sifford family. And i would just like to say that this debate in a way is a living tribute to mel carnahan , because he loved the vigorous discussion of ideas in our democracy. He was a fantastic governor of missouri. This state became one of the top five in the nation for Health Care Coverage for children under his leadership. One of the best in advancing all kinds of benefits for children to grow up healthy and strong. And of course, this debate also takes place at a time when the tragedy of the uss cole is on our minds and hearts and insofar as the Memorial Service is tomorrow, i would like to also extend sympathy to the families of those who have died and those who are still missing, and the injured. Now, mr. Hankins, i think that the situation that you describe has gotten completely out of hand. Doctors are giving prescriptions, theyre recommending treatments, and then their recommendations are being overruled by hmos and Insurance Companies. That is unacceptable. I support a Strong National patients bill of rights. It is actually a disagreement between us, a national law that is pending on this, the dinglenorwood bill, a bipartisan bill, is one that i support and that the governor does not. Mr. Lehrer two minutes response, governor bush. Gov. Bush i, too, want to extend my prayers and blessings, gods blessings on the families whose lives were overturned yes today last night. Its a tragic moment. Actually, mr. Vice president , its not true. I do support a National Patients bill of rights. As a matter of fact, i brought republicans and democrats together to do just that in the state of texas to get a patients bill of rights through. It requires a different kind of leadership style to do it, though. You see, in order to get something done on behalf of the people, you have to put partisanship aside, and thats what we did in my state. We have one of the most advanced patients bill of rights. It says, for example, that a woman doesnt have to go through a gatekeeper to go to her gynecologist. It says that you cant gag a doctor, doctor can advise you. The hmo, the Insurance Company, cant gag that doctor from giving you full advice. And this particular bill, it allows patients to choose a doctor, their own doctor if they want to. But we did Something Else that was interesting. Were one of the first states that said you can sue an hmo for denying you proper coverage. Now theres whats called an independent review organization that you have to go through first. It says if youve got a complaint with your Insurance Company, you can take your complaint to an objective body. If the objective body rules on your behalf, the Insurance Company must follow those rules. However, if the Insurance Company doesnt follow the findings of the iro, then that becomes a cause of action in a court of law. Its time for our nation to come together and do whats right for the people, and i think this is right for the people. You know, i support a National Patients bill of rights, mr. Vice president , and i want all people covered. I dont want the law to supersede good law like weve got in texas. I think mr. Lehrer governor, time is up, sir. Vice pres. Gore jim, we have a direct disagreement on this. Mr. Lehrer just a minute, mr. Vice president. I want to the way the rules go here now, two minutes, two minutes, and then ill decide whether we go on. Okay . So what i want to make sure is we understand here is before we go on to another question in the health area, would you agree that you two agree on a National Patients bill of rights . Vice pres. Gore absolutely not. I referred to the dinglenorwood bill. It is the bipartisan bill that is now pending in the congress. The hmos and the Insurance Companies support the other bill thats pending, the one that the republican majority has put forward. They like it because it doesnt accomplish what i think really needs to be accomplished to give the decisions back to the doctors and nurses and give you a right of appeal to somebody other than the hmo or Insurance Company, let you go to the nearest emergency room without having to call an hmo before you call 911, to let you see a specialist if you need to, and it has strong bipartisan support. It is being blocked by the Republican Leadership in the congress. Mr. Lehrer sir. Vice pres. Gore and i specifically would like to know whether governor bush will support the dinglenorwood bill, which is the main one pending. Mr. Lehrer governor bush, you may answer that if youd like. But also id like to know how you see the differences between the two of you, and we need to move on. Gov. Bush well, the difference is is that i can get it done. That i can get something positive done on behalf of the people. Thats what the question in this campaign is about. Its not only whats your philosophy and whats your position on issues, but can you get things done . [laughter] and i believe i can. Vice pres. Gore what about the dinglenorwood bill . Mr. Lehrer all right. Were going to go now to another all right. Yes. Gov. Bush im not quite through. Let me finish. I talked about the principles and the issues that i think are important in a patients bill of rights. Its kind of washington, d. C. Focus. Well, its in this committee or its got this sponsor. If im the president , were going to have emergency room care, were going have gag orders, were going to have direct access to ob gyn. People will be able to take their hmo Insurance Company to court. Thats what ive done in texas and thats the kind of leadership style ill bring to washington. Mr. Lehrer all right. Another the next question also on health issue is from it will be asked by marie payne kloepy, and it goes to governor bush. Ms. Kloepy are either of you concerned with here you go. Kloepy are either of you concerned with finding some feasible way to lower the price of pharmaceutical drugs such as education on minimizing intake, revamp of the fda process or streamlining the drug companie procedures instead of just finding more money to pay for them . Gov. Bush well, thats a great question. I think one of the problems we have, particularly for seniors, is there is no Prescription Drug coverage in medicare. And therefore, when they have to try to purchase drugs they do so on their own, theres no kind of collective bargaining, no power of purchasing among seniors. So i think step one to make sure Prescription Drugs is more affordable for seniors and those are the folks who really rely upon Prescription Drugs a lot these days is to reform the medicare system, is to have Prescription Drugs as an integral part of medicare once and for all. The problem we have today is that, like the patients bill of rights, particularly with health care, theres a lot of bickering in washington, d. C. Its kind of like a political issue as opposed to a people issue. So what i want to do is i want to call upon republicans and democrats to forget all the arguing and finger pointing, and come together and take care of our seniors Prescription Drug program, that says well pay for the poor seniors, well help all seniors with Prescription Drugs. In the meantime, i think its important to have whats called immediate helping hand, which is direct money to states so that seniors, poor seniors, dont have to choose between food and medicine. Thats part of an overall overhaul. The purchasing powers. And im against price controls. I think price controls would hurt our ability to continue Important Research and development. Drug therapies are replacing a lot of medicines as we used to know it. One of the most important things is to continue the research and development component. And so im against price controls. Expediting drugs through the fda makes sense, of course. Allowing the new bill that was passed in the congress made sense to allow for, you know, drugs that were sold overseas to come back and other countries to come back into the United States. That makes sense. But the best thing to do is to reform medicare. Mr. Lehrer Vice President gore, two minutes. Vice pres. Gore all right, here we go again. Now look, if you want someone who will spend a lot of words describing a whole convoluted process and then end up supporting legislation that is supported by the Big Drug Companies, this is your man. If you want someone who will fight for you and who will fight for the middleclass families and working men and women, who are sick and tired of having their parents and grandparents pay higher prices for Prescription Drugs than anybody else, then i want to fight for you. And you asked a great question , because its not only seniors. Listen, for 24 years i have never been afraid to take on the Big Drug Companies. They do some great things. They discover great new cures and thats great. We want them to continue that. But they are now spending more money on advertising and promotion you see all these ads . Than they are on research and development. And they are trying artificially extend the monopoly patent protection so they can keep charging these very high prices. I want to streamline the approval of the competing generic drugs and the new kinds of treatments that can compete with them so we bring the price down for everybody. Now, briefly, let me tell you how my Prescription Drug plan works. The governor talked about medicare. I propose a real Prescription Drug benefit under medicare for all seniors all seniors and heres how it works. You pick your own doctor, and nobody can take that away from you. The doctor chooses the prescription that you need and nobody can overrule your doctor. You go to your own pharmacy and then medicare pays half the price. If youre poor, they pay all of it. If you have extraordinarily high cost, then they pay all over 4,000 outofpocket. And ill bring new competition to bring the price down. And if you pass the Big Drug Companies bill, nothing will happen. Mr. Lehrer all right. Another health question, it comes from vickie french and its for you, Vice President gore. Vickie french, where are you . Oh, there she is. Ms. French we spend billions of dollars every year on taxes, or pay billions of dollars in taxes. Would you be open to the idea of a National Health care plan for everybody . And if not, why . If so, is this something you would try to implement if you are elected into office and what would you do to implement this plan . Vice pres. Gore i think that we should move stepbystep toward universal Health Coverage, but i am not in favor of government doing it all. Weve spent 65 years now on the development of a hybrid system, partly private, partly public, and 85 of our people have Health Insurance, 15 dont. That adds up to 44 million people. That is a national outrage. We have got to get Health Coverage for those who do not have it and weve got to improve the quality for those who do with a patients bill of rights thats real and that works, the dinglenorwood bill, and we have got to fill in the gaps in coverage by finally bringing parity for the treatment of mental illness, because thats been left out. We have got to deal with longterm care. Now, here are the steps that i would take, first of all. I will make a commitment to bring Health Care Coverage of high quality that is affordable to every single child in america within four years. And then well fill other gaps by covering the parents of those children when the family is poor or up to 2. 5 times the poverty rate. I want to give a tax credit for the purchase of individual Health Insurance plans. I want to give Small Business employers a tax credit, 25 , to encourage the providing of Health Insurance for the employees in Small Businesses. I want to give seniors who are, well, the near elderly, i dont like that term because i am just about in that category, but those 55 to 65 ought to be able to buy into medicare for premiums that are reasonable and fair and significantly below what they have to get now. Now, we have a big difference on this. And you need to know the record here. Under governor bush, texas has sunk to be 50th out of 50 in health care in Health Insurance for their citizens. Last week he said that they were or 4. 7 3. 7 billion billion on this. Mr. Lehrer mr. Vice president. Vice pres. Gore okay. Mr. Lehrer time is up. Governor bush, two minutes. Gov. Bush im absolutely opposed to a National Health care plan. I dont want the federal government making decisions for consumers or for providers. I remember what the administration tried to do in 1993. They tried to have a National Health care plan. And fortunately, it failed. I trust people, i dont trust the federal government. Its going to be one of the themes you hear tonight. I dont want the federal government making decisions on behalf of everybody. There is an issue with the uninsured, there sure is. And we have uninsured people in my state. Ours is a big state, a fastgrowing state. We share a common border with another nation. But were providing health care for our people. One thing about insurance, thats a washington term. The question is, are people getting health care, and we have a strong safety net, and there needs to be a safety net in america. There needs to be more Community Health clinics where the poor can go get health care. We need a program for the uninsured. Theyve been talking about it in washington, d. C. The number of uninsured has now gone up for the past seven years. We need a 2,000 credit, rebate for people, working people that dont have insurance, they can get in the marketplace and start purchasing insurance. We need to have allow Small Businesses to write insurance across jurisdictional lines so Small Business can afford health care, small restaurants can afford health care. So Health Care Needs to be affordable and available. We have to trust people to make decisions with their lives. In the medicare reform i talk about, it says if you are a senior, you can stay in medicare if you like it, and thats fine, but were going to give you other choices to choose if you want to do so, just like they do the federal employees. The people that work in washington, d. C. For the u. S. Congress or the United States senate. Get a variety of choices to make in their lives. And thats what we ought to do for all people in america. Mr. Lehrer yes, sir, sorry. Vice pres. Gore followup . Gov. Bush trying to find my light. Mr. Lehrer not right now. Education. These folks submitted 18 questions on education, and the first one is that will be asked on education will go to you, governor, and will be asked by angie pettig. Angie pettig, where are you . There she is, governor, right there. Gov. Bush hi, angie. Ms. Pettig ive heard a lot about education and the need to hold teachers and schools accountable, and i certainly agree with that. But as an individual with an educational background, and also a parent, i have seen a lot of instances where the parents are unresponsive to the teachers or flat out uninvolved in their childs education. How do you intend to not only hold the teachers and schools accountable but also hold parents accountable . Gov. Bush well, you know, its hard to make people love one another. [laughter] i wish i knew the law, because i would darn sure sign it. I wish i knew the law that said all of us would be good parents. One of the things the next president must do is to remind people that if we are going to have a responsible period in america, that each of us must love our children with all our heart and all our soul. I happen to believe strong accountability encourages parental involvement, though. I think when you measure and post results on the internet or in the town newspapers, most parents say, wait a minute, my Childs School isnt doing what i want it to do and, therefore, become involved in education. I recognize there are some who just dont seem to care. But there are a lot of parents who feel like everything is going well in their Childs School, and all of a sudden they wake up and realize that, wait a minute, standards arent being met. Thats why im so strong for accountability. I believe we ought to measure a lot, three, four, five, six, seven, eighth grade. We do so in my state of texas. One of the good things weve done in texas is we have strong accountability because you cant cure unless you know. You cant solve a problem unless you diagnose it. I strongly believe that one of the best things to encourage parental involvement also is to know that the classrooms will be safe and secure. Thats why i support a teacher Liability Act at the federal level, that says if a teacher or principal upholds reasonable standards of classroom discipline they cant be sued. They cant be sued. I think parents will be more involved with education when they know their childrens classrooms are safe and secure as well. I also believe that we need to say to people that if you cannot meet standards, there has to be a consequence. Instead of just comes the soft bigotry of low expectations, that there has to be a consequence. We cant continue to shuffle children through school. And one of the consequences to allow parents to have different choices. Mr. Lehrer governor. Vice president gore. Vice pres. Gore we have huge difference between us on this question. Id like to start by telling you what my vision is. I see a day in the United States of america where all of our Public Schools are considered excellent. World class. Where there are no failing schools. Where the classrooms are small enough in size number of students so that the teacher can spend enough oneonone time with each student. Now, that means recruiting new teachers for the Public Schools. It means in my plan hiring bonuses to get 100,000 new teachers in the Public Schools within the next four years. It means also helping local School Districts that sometimes find the parents of School Age Children outvoted on bond issues, to give them some help with interestfree Bonding Authority so that we can build new schools and modernize the classrooms. We need to give teachers the training and professional development that they need, including a paid time off to go visit the classroom of a Master Teacher to pick up some new skills. I want to give every middleclass family a 10,000 a year Tax Deduction for College Tuition so that middleclass families will always be able to send their kids on to college. I want to work for universal free school, because we know from all the studies that the youngsters learn kids learn more in the first few years of life than any where else. Now, i said there was a contrast. Governor bush is for vouchers, and in his plan he proposes to drain more money more taxpayer money out of the Public Schools for private School Vouchers than all of the money that he proposes in his entire budget for Public Schools themselves. And only one in 20 students would be eligible for these vouchers, and they wouldnt even pay the full tuition to private school. I think thats a mistake. I dont think we should give up on the private schools and leave kids trapped in failing schools. I think we i think we should make it the number one priority to make our schools the best in the world, all of them. Mr. Lehrer governor, what is your position on that . Gov. Bush yeah, i appreciate that. I think any time we end with one of these attacks, its appropriate to respond. Heres what i think. First of all, vouchers are up to states. If you want to do a Voucher Program in missouri, fine. See, i strongly believe in local control of schools. Im a governor of state and i dont like it when the federal government tells us what to do. I believe in local control of schools. But heres what i said. Ive said to the extent we spend federal money on disadvantaged children, we want the schools to show us whether or not the children are learning. Whats unreasonable about that . We expect there to be standards met and we expect there to be measurement. And if we find success well praise it. But when we find children trapped in schools that will not change and will not teach, instead of saying, oh, this is okay in america just to shuffle poor kids through schools, there has to be a consequence. And the consequence is, that federal portion or federal money will go to the parent, so the parent can go to a tutoring program or another Public School or another private school. You see, there has to be a consequence. Weve got a society that says hey, the status quo is fine, just move them through. And guess who suffers. Mr. Lehrer whats the harm on that, whats the other side on that . Vice pres. Gore well, the program that hes proposing is not the one that he just described. Under your plan, governor bush, states would be required to pay vouchers to students to match the vouchers so that the federal government would put up. Now, youre and the way it would happen is that under hisas that under his plan if a school , was designated as failing, the kids would be trapped there for another three years and then some of them would get federal vouchers and the state would be forced to match those, that money. Under my plan, if a school is failing, we work with the states to give them the authority and the resources to close down that school and reopen it right away with a new principal, a new faculty, a Turnaround Team of specialists who know what theyre doing. Its based on the plan of governor jim hunt in north carolina, and it works great. Mr. Lehrer so no vouchers under in a Gore Administration . Vice pres. Gore if i thought that there was no alternative, then i might feel differently. But i have an obligation to fight to make sure there are no failing schools. We have to turn around most schools are excellent, but we have to make sure that all of them are. Mr. Lehrer andrew kosberg has a related question on education thats right on this subject. Mr. Kosberg, where are you . And its for Vice President gore. Mr. Kosberg mr. Vice president , [laughter] in the School District in which i work and in countless others across the nation, we face crumbling school buildings, increased school violence, student apathy, overcrowding, lack of funding, lawsuits, the list goes on. I could mention low teacher pay but i wont. What can you tell me and my fellow american teachers today about your plans for our immediate future . Vice pres. Gore what grade do you teach . Mr. Lehrer thats a violation of your rule, Vice President gore. [laughter] high school. [laughter] vice pres. Gore i mentioned before that the local communities are having a harder time passing bond issues. Traditionally, if youve been involved in a Campaign Like that, you know that the parents with kids in school are the ones that turn out and vote. Its ironic that there are now there is now a smaller percentage of the voters made up of parents with children than ever in American History because of the aging of our population, but at the same time weve got the largest generation of students in Public Schools ever. More than 90 of americas children go to Public Schools. And its the largest number ever this year and theyll break the record next year and every year for ten years running. Weve got to do something about this. And local its not enough to leave it up to the local School Districts. Theyre not able to do it and our future depends upon it. Look, were in an information age. Our Economic Future depends upon whether or not our children are going to get the kind of education that lets them go on to college. And again, i want to make it possible for all middleclass families to send their kids to college and more pell grants for those who are in the lower income groups also, and then i want to make sure that we have job training on top of that and Lifelong Learning, but it all starts with the Public School teachers. My proposal gives 10,000 hiring bonuses for those teachers who are who get certified to teach in the areas where theyre most needed. We have to start treating teachers like the professionals that they are, and give them the respect and the kind of quality of life that will draw more people into teaching because we need a lot more teachers. Mr. Lehrer governor bush, two minutes. Gov. Bush when you total up all the federal spending he wants to do, its the largest increase in federal spending in years. And theres just not going to be enough money. I have been a governor of a big state, i have made education my number one priority. Thats what governors ought to do. They ought to say this is the most important thing we do as a state. The federal government puts about 6 of the money up. They put about, you know, 60 of the strings where you have to fill out the paperwork. I dont know if you have to be a paperwork fillerouter, but most of its because of the federal government. What i want to do is to send flexibility and authority to the local folks so you can choose what to do with the money. One size does not fit all. I would worry about federalizing education if i were you. I believe strongly that the federal government can help, we need to fund headstart. We need to have accountability. The Vice President s plan does not have annual accountability, third grade, fourth grade, fifth grade. We need to demand on results. I believe strongly in a teacher protection act like i mentioned. I hear from teachers all the time about the lawsuits and the threats, respect in the classroom. Part of its because you cant you cant control the classroom. You cant have a consequence for somebody without fear of getting sued under federal law. So im going to ask the congress to pass a teacher protection act. So i believe in flexibility, i believe in a National Reading initiative for local districts to access with k through 2 diagnostic testing, curriculum that works, phonics works, by the way, it needs to be a part of our curriculum. There needs to be flexibility for teacher training and teacher hiring with federal money. The federal government can be a part, but dont fall prey to all this stuff about money here and money there because education is really funded at the local level. 94 comes from the local level. Mr. Lehrer Vice President gore, is the governor right when he says that youre proposing the largest federal spending in years . Vice pres. Gore absolutely not. Absolutely not. Im so glad that i have the chance to knock that down. Look, the problem is that under governor bushs plan, 1. 6 trillion tax cut, mostly to the wealthy, under his own budget numbers, he proposes spending more money for a tax cut just for the wealthiest 1 than all the new money he budgets for education, health care and National Defense combined. Now under my plan well balance the budget every year. Im not just saying this. Im not just talking. I have helped to balance the budget for the first time in 30 years, paid down the debt. And under my plan, in four years, as the percentage of our gross domestic product, federal spending will be the smallest that it has been in 50 years. One reason is, you know, the third biggest spending item in our budget is interest on the National Debt . We get nothing for it. We keep the good faith and credit of the United States. I will pay down the debt every single year until it is eliminated early in the next decade. That gets rid of the third biggest intrusion of the federal government in our economy. Now, because the governor has all this money for a tax cut mostly to the wealthy, there is no money left over, so schools get testing and lawsuit reform and not much else. Mr. Lehrer governor, the Vice President says youre wrong. Gov. Bush well, hes wrong. [laughter] just add up all the numbers. Its three times bigger than what president clinton proposed. The Senate Budget committee mr. Lehrer three times excuse me, three times bigger than what president clinton proposed . Vice pres. Gore that was in an ad, jim, that was knocked down by the journalists who analyzed the ad and said it was misleading. Gov. Bush my turn . Mr. Lehrer yes, sir. [laughter] gov. Bush forget the journalists. He proposed more than Walter Mondale and Michael Dukakis combined. This is a big spender. And he ought to be proud of it, its part of his record. We just have a different philosophy. Let me talk about tax relief. If you pay taxes, you ought to get tax relief. The Vice President believes only the right people ought to get tax relief. I dont think thats the role of the president to pick youre right and youre not right. I think if youre going to have tax relief, everybody ought to get it. And therefore, wealthy people are going to get it. But the top 1 will end up paying onethird of the taxes in america and they get onefifth of the benefits. And thats because we structured the plan so that six million additional American Families pay no taxes. If youre a family of four making 50,000 in missouri, you get a 50 cut in your federal income taxes. What ive done is set priorities and funded them. And theres extra money. And i believe the people who pay the bills ought to get some money back. I wish we could spend an hour talking about trusting people. Its just the right position to take. Vice pres. Gore can we take the time mr. Lehrer governor yeah, hold on one second here, thought. The governor just reversed the thing. Gov. Bush of course it does. If you pay taxes, you are going to get a benefit. People who pay taxes will get tax relief. Mr. Lehrer all right. Why shouldnt they . Gov. Bush let me finish. Under my plan, if you make the top the wealthy people pay 62 of the taxes today. Afterwards they pay 64 . This is a fair plan. You know why . Because the tax code is unfair for people at the bottom end of the economic ladder. If youre a single mother making 22,000 a year today and youre trying to raise two children, for every additional dollar you earn you pay a higher marginal rate on that dollar than someone making 200,000, and thats not right. Mr. Lehrer Vice President gore . Vice pres. Gore yeah, look. Look, this isnt about governor bush, its not about me. It is about you. And i want to come back to something i said before. If you want somebody who believes that we were better off eight years ago than we are now and that we ought to go back to the kind of policies that we had back then, emphasizing tax cuts mainly for the wealthy, here is your man. If you want somebody who will fight for you and who will fight to have middleclass tax cuts, then i am your man. I want to be. Now, i doubt anybody here makes more than 330,000 a year. I wont ask you, but if you do, youre in the top 1 . Mr. Lehrer it would be a violation of the rules. They couldnt vice pres. Gore im not going to ask them. [laughter] but if everyone here in this audience was dead on in the middle of the middleclass, then the tax cuts for every single one of you all added up would be less than the tax cut his plan would give to just one member of that top wealthiest 1 . Now you judge for yourselves whether or not thats fair. Mr. Lehrer quick, and then were moving on. Gov. Bush good. 50 million americans get no tax relief under his plan. Vice pres. Gore thats not right. Gov. Bush you may not be one of them, youre just not one of the right people. Its time to unite. You talk about eight years . In eight years they havent gotten anything done on medicare, on Social Security, a patients bill of rights. Its time to get something done. Vice pres. Gore hey, ive got to answer that, jim. Mr. Lehrer all right. Vice pres. Gore medicare i cast the tiebreaking vote to add 26 years to the life of medicare. It was due to go bankrupt in 1999 and that 50 million figure again, the newspapers i said you said forget the journalists, but they are the keepers of the score card and whether or not youre using facts that arent right. And that fact is just not right. Mr. Lehrer speaking of keepers of the score card, thats what im trying to do here mr. Vice president and governor bush. Were gonna move on. Were gonna have to move on. All right, there were 12 questions on foreign and military matters, and the first one that were going to ask will be directed to you, governor bush. And David Norwood is going to ask it. Mr. Norwood, where are you . There you are. Mr. Norwood what would you make what would make you the best candidate in office during the middle east crisis . Gov. Bush ive been a leader. Ive been a person who has to set a clear vision and convince people to follow. Ive got a strategy for the middle east. And first let me say that our nation now needs to speak with one voice during this time, and i applaud the president for working hard to diffuse tensions. Our nation needs to be credible and strong. When we say were somebodys friend, everybody has got to believe it. Israel is our friend and well stand by israel. We need to reach out to moderate arab nations as well to build coalitions to keep the peace. I also need the next leader needs to be patient. We cant put the middle east Peace Process on our timetable. Its got to be on the timetable of the people that were trying to bring to the peace table. We cant dictate the terms of peace, which means that you have to be steady. You cant worry about polls or focus groups. Youve got to have a clear vision. Thats what a leader does. A leader also understands that the United States must be strong to keep the peace. Saddam hussein still is a threat in the middle east. Our coalition against saddam is unraveling. Sanctions are loosened. The man who may be developing weapons of mass destruction, we dont know because inspectors arent in. So to answer your question, it requires a clear vision, a willingness to stand by our friends, and the credibility for people both friend and foe to understand when america says something, we mean it. Mr. Lehrer Vice President gore . Vice pres. Gore i see a future when the world is at peace, with the United States of america promoting the values of democracy and human rights and freedom all around the world. Even in iran they have had an election that began to bring about some change. We stand for those values and we have to be willing to assert them. Right now our military is the strongest in the entire history of the world. I will i pledge to you i will do whatever is necessary to make sure that it stays that way. Now, what can i bring to that challenge . When i was a young man, my father was a senator opposed to the vietnam war. When i graduated from college, there were plenty of fancy ways to get out of going and being a part of that. I went and i volunteered, and i went to vietnam. I didnt do the most or run the greatest risk by a long shot, but i learned what it was like to be an enlisted man in the United States army. In the congress, in the house of representatives, i served on the House Intelligence Committee and i worked hard to learn the subject of Nuclear Arms Control and how we can diffuse these tensions and deal with nonproliferation and deal with the problems of terrorism and these new weapons of mass destruction. Look, were gonna face some serious new challenges in the next four years. Ive worked on that long and hard. When i went to the United States senate, i asked for an assignment to the Armed Services committee. And while i was there i worked on a bipartisan basis, as i did in the house, i worked with former president reagan on the modernization of our strategic weaponry. In the senate i was one of only ten democrats, along with senator joe lieberman, to support governor bushs dad in the persian gulf war resolution. And for the last eight years ive served on the National Security council. Can i say just one other thing here . Mr. Lehrer no, sir. Well get that im gonna the next question is to you. Vice pres. Gore fine, ill wait. Mr. Lehrer its a related its a related question that is going to be asked by kenneth allen. Mr. Allen . Vice pres. Gore i think he gets a oh, im sorry, youre right, go ahead. Mr. Lehrer mr. Allen, right there. Mr. Allen mr. Vice president , today our military forces are stretched thinner and doing more than they have ever done before during peacetime. I would like to know what you are i think we would all like to know what you as president would do to ensure proper resourcing for the Current Mission and or more selectively choosing the time and place that our forces will be used around the world. Vice pres. Gore thank you, sir. Just to finish briefly, i started to say that for the last eight years ive been on the National Security council. Last week i broke up i suspended campaigning for two days, or parts of two days, to go back and participate in the meetings that charted the president s summit meeting that he just returned from earlier today. And our team of our countrys team over there did a great job. Its a difficult situation. The United States has to be strong in order to make sure that we can help promote peace and security and stability. And that means keeping our military strong. Now, i said earlier that we are the strongest military, but we need to continue improving readiness and making sure that our military personnel are adequately paid and that the combination of their pay and their benefits and their retirement as veterans is comparable to the stiff competition thats coming in this Strong Economy from the private sector. And i have supported the largest pay raise in many a year, and i support another one now. I also support modernization of our strategic and tactical weaponry. The governor has proposed skipping a generation of technology. I think that would be a mistake, because i think one of the ways weve been able to be so successful in kosovo and bosnia and haiti and in other places is by having the technological edge. You know, we won that conflict in kosovo without losing a single human life in combat, a single American Life in combat. Now, readiness. The trends before we before i got my current job were on the decline, the number of divisions were reduced. I argued that we should reverse that trend and take it back up. And im happy to tell you that we have. Now, in my budget for the next ten years i propose 100 billion for this purpose. The governor proposes 45 billion. I propose more than twice as much because i think its needed. Mr. Lehrer governor bush, two minutes. Gov. Bush if this were a spending contest, i would come in second. I readily admit im not going to grow the size of the federal government like he is. Your question was deployment. It must be in the national interests, must be in our vital interests whether we ever send troops. The mission must be clear. Soldiers must understand why were going. The force must be Strong Enough so that the mission can be accomplished. And the exit strategy needs to be welldefined. Im concerned that were overdeployed around the world. See, i think the mission has somewhat become fuzzy. Should i be fortunate enough to earn your confidence, the mission of the United States military will be to be prepared and ready to fight and win war. And therefore prevent war from happening in the first place. There may be some moments when we use our troops as peacekeepers, but not often. The Vice President mentioned my view of longterm for the military. I want to make sure the equipment for our military is the best it can possibly be, of course. But we have an opportunity we have an opportunity to use our research and development capacities, the Great Technology of the United States, to make our military lighter, harder to find, more lethal. We have an opportunity, really, if you think about it, if were smart and have got a Strategic Vision and a leader who understands Strategic Planning, to make sure that we change the terms of the battlefield of the future so we can keep the peace. This is a peaceful nation, and i intend to keep the peace. Spending money is one thing. But spending money without a Strategic Plan can oftentimes be wasted. First thing im going to do is ask the secretary of defense to develop a plan so we are making sure were not spending our money on political projects, but on projects to make sure our soldiers are wellpaid, wellhoused, and have the best equipment in the world. Mr. Lehrer governor bush, another kind of gun question. It will be asked by robert lutz. Mr. Lutz . Mr. Lutz governor bush gov. Bush yes, sir. Mr. Lutz would just like to know what is your opposition to the brady handgun bill . Gov. Bush im sorry, i didnt hear that. Mr. Lutz would like to know why you object to the brady handgun bill, if you do object to it. Because in a recent tv ad it showed that the National Rifle Association Says that if you are elected, that they will be working out of your office. Gov. Bush i dont think the National Rifle association ran that ad. But let me just tell you my position on guns in general, sir, if you dont mind. Mr. Lehrer excuse me, im not sure hes finished with his question. Gov. Bush im sorry. Mr. Lutz that kind of bothers me when i see an ad like that. I want you to explain that ad to me. Gov. Bush well, i dont think i ran the ad. I think somebody who doesnt want me to be president might have run that ad. That wasnt my ad. I think it might have been one of my opponents ads. Here is what i believe, sir. I believe lawabiding citizens ought to be allowed to protect themselves and their families. I believe that we ought to keep guns out of the hands of people that shouldnt have them. Thats why im for instant background checks at gun shows, im for trigger locks, i think that makes sense. Matter of fact, we distributed free trigger locks in the state of texas so that people can get them and put them on their guns to make their guns more safe. I think we ought to raise the age at which juveniles can have a gun. But i also believe strongly that we need to enforce laws on the books that the best way to make sure that we keep our society safe and secure is to hold people accountable for breaking the law. If we catch somebody illegally selling a gun, there needs to be a consequence. If we keep somebody you know, illegally using a gun, there needs to be a consequence. Enforcement of law, and the federal government can help. There is a Great Program called project exile in richmond, virginia where we focused federal taxpayers money and federal prosecutors and went after people who were illegally using guns. To me thats how you make society the safest it can be. And so, yeah, sometimes i agree with some of these groups in washington and sometimes i dont. Im a pretty independent thinker. The one thing im for is a safe society. And im for enforcing laws on the books. And thats what is going to happen should i earn your confidence. Mr. Lehrer Vice President gore . Vice pres. Gore well, it was not one of my ads, either, governor. But i am familiar with the statement, and it was made by one of the topranking officials of that organization. Let me tell you my position. I think that some common sense gun Safety Measures are certainly needed with the flood of cheap handguns that have sometimes been working their way into the hands of the wrong people. But all of my proposals are focused on that problem, gun safety. None of my proposals would have any effect on hunters, or sportsmen, or people who use rifles. Theyre aimed at the real problem. Lets make our schools safe, lets make our neighborhoods safe. Lets have a threeday waiting period, cooling off, so we can have a background check to make sure that criminals and people who really shouldnt have guns dont get them. But i would like to use my remaining time on this exchange, jim, to respond to an exchange that took place just a moment ago. Because a couple of times the governor has said that i am for a bigger government. Governor, im not. And let me tell you what the record shows. For the last eight years i have had the challenge of running the streamlining program called reinventing government. And if there are any federal employees in this group, you know what that means. The federal government has been reduced in size by more than 300,000 people. And its now the smallest number that we have had since the the smallest in size since John Kennedys administration. During the last five years, texass government has gone up in size. Federal government has gone down, texass government has gone up. Now, my plan for the future, i see a time when we have smaller, smarter government where you dont have to wait in line because you can get Services Online cheaper, better, faster. We can do that. Mr. Lehrer Steve Luecker has a question, and it is for Vice President gore. Mr. Luecker . There you are. Mr. Luecker Vice President gore. The family farms are disappearing and having a hard time even in the current positive economic environment. What steps would you or your administration take on Agricultural Policy developments to protect the family farms for this multifunctional service they perform . Vice pres. Gore weve got a bumper crop this year. But thats the good news. You know what the bad news is that follows on that. The prices are low. In the last several years, the socalled freedom to farm law has, in my view, been mostly a failure. I want to change many of its provisions. Now, many here who are not involved in farming dont wont follow this, so just forgive me. Because the 2 of the country that is involved in farming is important because the rest of us wouldnt eat except for them. And you guys have been having a hard time, and i want to fight for you. I want to change those provisions. I want to restore a meaningful safety net. And i think that you pointed the way in your comments, because when you say there are multiple things accomplished by farmers, youre specifically including conservation and protection of the environment. And yes, farmers are the first environmentalists. And when they decide not to plow a field that is vulnerable to soil erosion, that may cost them a little money, but it helps the environment. I think that we ought to have an expanded conservation reserve program. And i think that the environmental benefits that come from sound management of the land ought to represent a new way for farmers to get some income that will enable them enable you to make sensible choices in crop rotation, and when you leave the land fallow and the rest. Now, ill go beyond that and say i think we need much more focus on Rural Economic Development programs. I see a time when the internetbased activities are more available in the rural areas and where the extra source of income that farm families used to have from shoe factories is replaced by an extra source of income from working in the information economy. So we need to do a lot of things, but we ought to start with a Better Safety net. Mr. Lehrer governor bush, two minutes. Gov. Bush i would like our farmers feeding the world. Were the best producers in the world, and i want i want the farmers feeding the world. We need to open up markets. Exports are down, and every time an export number goes down, it hurts the farmer. I want the next president to have Fast Track Negotiating Authority to open up markets around the world. Were the best and the most efficient farmers. I dont want to use food as a diplomatic weapon from this point forward. We shouldnt be using food. It hurts the farmers. Its not the right thing to do. Im for valueadded processing. We need more work on valueadded processing. You take the raw product you produce, i presume youre a farmer, off your farm, and you convert it. Valueadded processing is important. Im for research and development. Spending research and Development Money so that we can use our Technological Base to figure out new uses for farm products. Im for getting rid of the death tax, completely getting rid of the death tax. One reason family farmers are forced to sell early is because of the death tax. This is a bad tax. The president shouldnt have vetoed that bill. Its a tax that taxes people twice. It penalizes the family farmer. So should i be fortunate enough to earn your vote, i also understand i want to open up markets, but i also understand that farming is a part of our National Security. Im from a big farm state. Were the second biggest state farming state in the country. And i hear from my farmers and friends all the time. The Vice President is right, by the way. Every day is earth day if you own the land. I like the policies that will encourage farmers to put set aside land as well for conservation purposes. Thank you. Mr. Lehrer a quick thing on the inheritance tax. There is a difference between the two of you on this. Vice president gore . Vice pres. Gore yeah. Im for a massive reform of the estate tax or the death tax. And under the plan that ive proposed, 80 of all family farms will be completely exempt from the estate tax. And the vast majority of all Family Businesses would be completely exempt, and all of the others would have sharply reduced. So 80 now the problem with completely eliminating it goes back to the wealthiest 1 . The amount of money that has to be raised in taxes for middleclass families to make up for completely eliminating that on the very wealthiest, the billionaires, that would be an extra heavy burden on middleclass families. And so lets do it for most all, but not completely eliminate it for the very top. Mr. Lehrer whats the case for doing that, governor . Gov. Bush eliminating the death tax. Mr. Lehrer completely. For everybody. Gov. Bush because people shouldnt be taxed twice on their assets. Its either unfair for some or unfair for all. Again, this is just a difference of opinion. If youre from washington, you want to pick and choose winners. I dont think thats the role of the president. I think if youre going to have tax relief, everybody benefits. Secondly, i think your plan a lot of fine print in your plan, mr. Vice president , with all due respect. It is im not so sure 80 of the people get the death tax. I know this, 100 will get it if im the president. I just dont think its fair to tax peoples assets twice regardless of your status. Its a fairness issue. Its an issue of principle, not politics. Mr. Lehrer new issue. New issue. And the question will be asked by joyce cleamer of governor bush. Joyce cleamer . Gov. Bush hi, joyce. Ms. Cleamer hi, governor. Im very concerned about the morality of our country now. Tv, movies, the music that our children are, you know, barraged with every day. And i want to know if theres anything that can be worked out with the hollywood, or whoever, to help get rid of some of this bad language and whatever, you know. Its just bringing the country and so i dont support censorship. But i do believe that we ought to talk plainly to the hollywood moguls and people who produce this stuff and explain the consequences. I think we need to have Rating Systems that are clear. I happen to like the idea of having technology for the tv, easy for parents to use so you can tune out these programs you dont want in your house. Ill remind mothers and dads the best weapon is the off on button, and paying attention to your children, and eating dinner with them and being im sorry. I was on my peroration. Vice pres. Gore my turn. Mr. Lehrer Vice President gore. Vice pres. Gore i care a lot about this. Its not just movies; television, video games, music, the internet. Parents now feel like you have to compete with the mass culture in order to raise your kids with the values that you want them to have. Tipper and i have four children. And god bless them, every one of them decided on their own to come here this evening. I dont want to embarrass our oldest daughter. She and her husband made us grandparents almost a yearandahalf ago, and yet if shell forgive me, when she was little, she brought a record home that had some awful lyrics in it and tipper hit the ceiling. And that launched a campaign to try to get the Record Companies to put ratings that warning labels for parents. And im so proud of what she accomplished in getting them on there. Ive been involved myself in negotiating and helping to move along the negotiations with the Internet Service providers to get a parents protection page every time 95 of the pages come up. And a feature that allows parents to automatically check with one click what sites your kids have visited lately. You know, some parents are worried about those filters, that you will have to ask your kids how to put them on there. But if you can check up on them, thats real power. And recently the federal trade commission pointed out that some of these Entertainment Companies have warned parents that the material is inappropriate for children, and then theyve turned around behind the backs of the parents and advertised that same adult material directly to children. That is an outrage. Joe lieberman and i gave them six months to clean up their act. And if they dont do it, were gonna ask for tougher authority in the hands of the ftc on the false and deceptive advertising. Ill tell you this, i want to do something about this. Respect the first amendment, but i will do something to help you raise your kids without that garbage. Mr. Lehrer all right. Vice president gore, the next question is for you, and it will be asked by steven koosmann. Mr. Koosmann, where are you, sir . Youre right behind me as well. There we go. Vice pres. Gore right next to the last. Mr. Koosmann it seems that when we hear about issues of this campaign, its usually medicare, Social Security or Prescription Drugs. As a college professor, i hear a lot of apathy amongst young people who feel that there are no issues directed to them. And they dont plan to vote. How do you address that . Vice pres. Gore weve got to change it. I spend a good deal of time talking to young people, and in my standard speech out there on the stump i usually end my speech by saying, i want to ask you for something and i want to direct it especially to the young people in the audience. And i want to tell you what i tell them. Sometimes people who are very idealistic and have great dreams, as young people do, are apt to stay at arms length from the political process because they think their good hearts might be brittle, and if they invest their hopes and allow themselves to believe, then theyre gonna be let down and disappointed. But thank goodness weve always had enough people who have been willing in every generation to push past the fear of a broken heart and become deeply involved in forming a more perfect union. Were america, and we believe in our future and we know we have the ability to shape our future. Now, weve got to address one of the biggest threats to our democracy. And that is the Current Campaign financing system. And i know they say it doesnt rank anywhere on the polls. I dont believe thats a fair measure. Im telling you, i will make it the i will make the mccainfeingold Campaign Finance reform bill the very first measure that i send to the congress as president. Governor bush opposes it. I wish that he would consider changing his mind on that. Because i think that the special interests have too much power, and we need to give our democracy back to the american people. Let me tell you why. Those issues you mentioned, Social Security, Prescription Drugs, the Big Drug Companies are against the Prescription Drug proposal that ive made. The hmos are against the patients rights bill, the dinglenorwood bill that i support, and that gov. Bush does not support. The Big Oil Companies are against the measures to get more Energy Independence and renewable fuel. They ought to have their voices heard, but they shouldnt have a big megaphone that drowns out the american people. We need Campaign Finance reform and we need to shoot straight with young and old alike and tell them what the real choices are. And we can renew and rekindle the american spirit and make our future what our founders dreamed it could be. We can. Mr. Lehrer governor bush, two minutes. Gov. Bush tell you what i hear. A lot of people are sick and tired of the bitterness in washington, d. C. And therefore they dont want any part of politics. They look at washington and see people pointing fingers and casting blame and saying one thing and doing another. Theres a lot of young folks saying, you know, why do i want to be involved with this mess . And what i think needs to happen in order to encourage the young to become involved is to shoot straight, is to set aside the partisan differences, and set an agenda that will make sense. Medicare, i know you talked about it, but medicare is relevant for all of us, young and old alike. We better get it right now. Tax reform is relevant for old and young alike. I dont think its the issues that turn kids off. I think its the tone. I think its the attitude. I think its a cynicism in washington and it doesnt have to be that way. Before i decided to run, i had to resolve two issues in my mind. One, could our family endure all this business . And i came to the conclusion that our love was Strong Enough to be able to do it. The other was, could an administration change the tone in washington, d. C. . And i believe the answer is yes, otherwise i wouldnt be asking for your vote. Thats what happened in texas. We worked together. There is a man here in this audience named hugo berlanga. He is the chairman of the health committee. He came here for a reason, to tout our record on health in texas. Hes a democrat. I didnt care whether he was a republican or democrat. What i cared about is could we work together. Thats what washington, d. C. Needs. And finally, sir, to answer your question, you need somebody in office who will tell the truth. Thats the best way to get people back in the system. Mr. Lehrer governor bush, norma curby has the next question. And its for you. Norma curby, where are you . Gov. Bush hi, norma. Ms. Curby hi. How will your administration address diversity, inclusiveness, and what role will affirmative action play in your overall plan . Gov. Bush ive had a record of bringing people from all walks of life into my administration, and my administration is better off for it in texas. Im going to find people that want to serve their country. But i want a diverse administration, i think its important. Ive worked hard in the state of texas to make sure our institutions reflect the state with good, smart policy. Policy that rejects quotas. I dont like quotas. Quotas tend to pit one group of people against another. Quotas are bad for america. Its not the way america is all about. But policies that give people a helping hand so they can help themselves. For example, in our state of texas i worked with the legislature, both republicans and democrats, to pass a law that said if you come in the top 10 of your high school class, youre automatically admitted to one of our higher institutions of learning, college. And as a result, our universities are now more diverse. It was a smart thing to do. What i called it, i labeled it affirmative access. I think the contracting business in government can help. Not with quotas, but help meet a goal of ownership of Small Businesses, for example. The contracts need to be smaller, the agencies need to be need to recruit and to work hard to find people to bid on the state contracts. I think we can do that in a way that represents what america is all about, which is equal opportunity and an opportunity for people to realize their potential. So to answer your question, i support, i guess the way to put it, is affirmative access. Ill have an administration that will make you proud. Thank you. Mr. Lehrer Vice President gore . Vice pres. Gore i believe in this goal and effort with all my heart. I believe that our future as a nation depends upon whether or not we can break down these barriers that have been used to pit group against group, and bring our people together. How do you do it . Well, you establish respect for differences. You dont ignore differences. Its all too easy for somebody in the majority in the population to say oh, were just all the same, without an understanding of the different Life Experience that youve had, that others have had. Once you have that understanding and mutual respect, then we can transcend the differences and embrace the highest common denominator of the american spirit. I dont know what affirmative access means. I do know what affirmative action means. I know the governor is against it, and i know that im for it. I know what a hate crime statute pending at the National Level is all about in the aftermath of james byrds death. Im for that proposed law, the governor is against it. I know what it means to have a commitment to diversity. I am part of an administration that has the finest record on diversity. And incidentally, an excellent i mean, i think our success over the last eight years has not been in spite of diversity but because of it. Because were able to draw on the wisdom and experience from different parts of the society that hadnt been tapped in the same way before. And incidentally, mel carnahan in missouri had the finest record on diversity in any governor in the entire history of the state of missouri. And i want to honor that among his other achievements here. Now, i just believe that what we have to do is enforce the civil rights laws. Im against quotas. This is, with all due respect, governor, thats a red herring. Affirmative action isnt quotas. Im against quotas, theyre illegal. Theyre against the american way. Affirmative action means that you take extra steps to acknowledge the history of discrimination and injustice and prejudice and bring all people into the American Dream because it helps everybody, not just those who are directly benefitting. Mr. Lehrer governor, what is your are you opposed to affirmative action . Gov. Bush if affirmative action means quotas, im against it. If affirmative action means what i just described what im for, then im for it. You heard what i was for. The Vice President keeps saying im against things. You heard what i was for, and thats what i support. Mr. Lehrer what about mr. Vice president , you heard what he said. Vice pres. Gore he said if affirmative action means quotas, hes against it. Affirmative action doesnt mean quotas. Are you for it without quotas . Gov. Bush i may not be for your version, mr. Vice president , but im for what i just described to the lady. Vice pres. Gore are you for what the Supreme Court says is a constitutional way of having affirmative action . Mr. Lehrer lets go on to another vice pres. Gore i think that speaks for itself. Gov. Bush no, it doesnt speak for itself, mr. Vice president , it speaks for the fact that there are certain rules in this that we all agree to, but evidently rules dont mean anything. Mr. Lehrer the question is for you, Vice President gore, and lisa kee will ask it. Lisa kee, where are you . There we go, sorry. Ms. Kee how will your tax proposals affect me as a middleclass, 34yearold Single Person with no dependents . Vice pres. Gore if you make less than 60,000 a year and you decide to invest 1,000 in a savings account, youll get a tax credit, which means in essence that the federal government will match your 1,000 with another 1,000. If you make less than 30,000 a year and you put 500 in a savings account, the federal government will match it with 1500. If you make more than 60,000 and up to 100 youll still get a match, but not as generous. Youll get an access to Lifelong Learning and education, help with tuition if you want to get a new skill or training. If you want to purchase Health Insurance, you will get help with that. If you want to participate in some of the dynamic changes that are going on in our country, you will get specific help in doing that. If you are part of the of the bottom 20 or so of wage earners, then you will get an expanded earned income tax credit. Now, the tax relief that i propose is directed specifically at middleincome individuals and families. And if you have a if you have an elderly parent or grandparent who needs longterm care, then you will get help with that. 3,000 tax credit to help your expenses in taking care of a loved one who needs longterm care. Mr. Lehrer governor bush . Gov. Bush let me just say the first this business about the entitlement he tried to describe about savings, you know, matching savings here and matching savings there, fullyfunded its gonna cost a whole lot of money, a lot more than we have. Youre going to get a tax relief in my plan. Youre not going to be targeted in or targeted out. Everybody that pays taxes is going to get tax relief. If you take care of an elderly in your home, youre going to get the personal exemption increased. I think also what you need to think about is not the immediate, but what about medicare . You get a plan that will include Prescription Drugs, a plan that will give you options. Now, i hope people understand that medicare today is important, but it doesnt keep up with the new medicines. If youre a medicare person, on medicare, you dont get the new procedures. Youre stuck in a time warp in many ways. So it will be a modern medicare system that trusts you to make a variety of options for you. Youre going to live in a peaceful world. It will be a world of peace because were going to have a clear sight of Foreign Policy based upon a Strong Military and a mission that stands by our friends. A mission that doesnt try to be all things to all people. A judicious use of the military which will help keep the peace. Youll live in a world, hopefully, that is more educated so its less likely youll be harmed in your neighborhood. See, an educated child is one much more likely to be hopeful and optimistic. Youll be in a world in which fits into my philosophy. The harder you work, the more you can keep. Its the american way. Government shouldnt be a heavy hand. Its what the federal government does to you. It should be a helping hand, and tax relief and the proposals i just described should be a good helping hand. Mr. Lehrer governor, next question is for you, and leo anderson will ask it. Mr. Anderson. You want a mike . Mr. Anderson in one of the last debates held, the subject of Capital Punishment came up, and in your response to the question, you seemed overly joyed and as a matter of fact proud that texas led the nation in the execution of prisoners. Sir, did i misread your response and are you really, really proud of the fact that texas is number one in executions . Gov. Bush no, im not proud of that. The Death Penalty is a very serious business, leo. Its an issue that good people obviously disagree on. I take my job seriously. And if you think i was proud of it, i think you misread me, i do. I was sworn to uphold the laws of my state. During the course of the campaign in 1994 i was asked do you support the Death Penalty. I said i did if administered fairly and justly. Because i believe it saves lives, leo, i do. If its administered swiftly, justly and fairly, it saves lives. One of the things that happens when youre a governor, at least oftentimes you have to make tough decisions. You cant let public persuasion sway you, because the job is to enforce the law. And thats what i did, sir. There have been some tough cases come across my desk. Some of the hardest moments since ive been the governor of the state of texas is to deal with those cases. But my job is to ask two questions, sir. Is the person guilty of the crime . And did the person have full access to the courts of law . And i can tell you looking at you right now, in all cases those answers were affirmative. Im not proud of any record. Im proud of the fact that Violent Crime is down in the state of texas. Im proud of the fact that we hold people accountable. But im not proud of any record, sir, im not. Mr. Lehrer Vice President gore . Vice pres. Gore i support the Death Penalty. I think that it has to be administered not only fairly with attention to things like dna evidence, which i think should be used in all capital cases, but also with very careful attention. If, for example, somebody confesses to the crime and somebody is waiting on death row, there has to be alertness to say wait a minute, have we got the wrong guy . If the wrong guy is put to death, then thats a double tragedy. Not only has an innocent person been executed, but the real perpetrator of the crime has not been held accountable for it. And in some cases may be still at large. But i support the Death Penalty in the most heinous cases. Mr. Lehrer do both of you believe the Death Penalty actually deters crime . Governor . Gov. Bush i do. Its the only reason to be for it. Let me finish, sir. I dont think you should support the Death Penalty to seek revenge. I dont think thats right. I think the reason to support the Death Penalty is because it saves other peoples lives. Vice pres. Gore i think it is a deterrent. I know thats a controversial view, but i do believe its a deterrent. Mr. Lehrer next question is for you, Vice President gore, and Thomas Fischer will ask it. Mr. Fischer . Mr. Fischer yes. My 6th grade class at st. Claires school wanted to ask of all these promises you guys are making and all the pledges, will you keep them when youre in office . laughter vice pres. Gore yes. [laughter] vice pres. Gore yes. [laughter] i am a person who keeps promises. And, you know, weve heard a lot about from the governor about not much being done in the last eight years, as if the promises that i made eight years ago have not been kept. I think the record shows otherwise. We have gone from the biggest deficits eight years ago to the biggest surpluses in history today. Instead of high unemployment, we now have the lowest africanamerican unemployment, the lowest latino unemployment ever measured. 22 million new jobs, very low unemployment nationally. Instead of ballooning the debt and multiplying it four times over, we have seen the debt actually begun to be paid down. Here are some promises that ill make to you now. I will balance the budget every year. I will pay down the debt every year. I will give middleclass americans tax cuts, meaningful ones. And i will invest in education, health care, protecting the environment and retirement security. We both made promises in this campaign. I promise you i will keep mine. Let me tell you about one of the governors. He has promised a trillion dollars out of the Social Security trust fund for young working adults to invest and save on their own. But hes promised seniors that their Social Security benefits will not be cut, and hes promised the same trillion dollars to them. So this is a show me state. Reminds me of the line from the movie, show me the money. Which one of those promises will you keep and which will you break, governor . Mr. Lehrer governor bush. Gov. Bush thank you for your question. laughter i theres an Old High School debating trick, which is to answer something and then attack your opponent at the end. You asked about promises. You were promised that medicare would be reformed, and that Social Security would be reformed. You were promised a middleclass tax cut in 1992. It didnt happen. Theres too much bitterness in washington. Theres too much wrangling. Its time to have a fresh start. One of the reasons i was successful as the governor of texas is because i didnt try to be all things to all people. When i campaigned in a race, a lot of folks didnt think i could win including, by the way, my mother. [laughter] i said id do four things; tort reform, education reform, welfare reform and juvenile justice reform. And i won. And i had the will of the people in my state behind me. And then i brought folks together to get it done. And thats what we need, i think, in this election. To me thats what its all about. Im sure your 6th grade kids are listening and saying, these guys will say anything to get elected. But theres a record, and thats what i hope people look at. One of my promises is going to be Social Security reform, and you bet, we need to take a trillion dollars out of that 2. 4 trillion surplus. Now remember, Social Security revenue exceeds expenses up until 2015. People are going to get paid. But if youre a younger worker, if youre younger, you better hope this country thinks differently, otherwise youre gonna be faced with huge payroll taxes or reduced benefits. And you bet were gonna take a trillion dollars of your own money and let you invest it under safe guidelines so you get a better rate of return on the money than the paltry 2 that the federal government gets for you today. Thats one of my promises. But its gonna require people to bring both republicans and democrats together to get it done. Thats what it requires. There was a chance to get this done. It was a bipartisan approach, but its been rejected. Im going to bring them together. Mr. Lehrer both of you both of you on this subject. There are other questions that also go to this skepticism, not necessarily about you, but all people in politics. Why is that . Vice pres. Gore well, first of all, jim, i would like to respond to what the governor just said. Because the trillion dollars that has been promised to young people has also been promised to older people. And you cannot keep both promises. If youre in your mid40s under the governors plan, Social Security will be bankrupt by the time you retire, if he takes it out of the Social Security trust fund. Under my plan it will be its solvency will be extended until youre 100. Now that is the difference. And the governor may not want to answer that question, he may want to call it a high school debating trick, but let me tell you this. This election is not about debating tricks, it is about your future. The reason Social Security he says it gets 2 . You know, its not a bank account that just pays back money thats invested. It is also used to give your mothers and fathers the Social Security checks that they live on. If you take a trillion dollars out of that Social Security trust fund, how are the checks going to be how are you going to keep faith with the seniors . Now let me come directly to your question. Mr. Lehrer we have to go to the closing statements and gov. Bush well, can i answer that . One reason people are skeptical is because people dont answer the questions theyve been asked. The trillion dollars comes out of the surplus so that you can invest some of your own money. Theres just a difference of opinion. I want workers to have their own assets. Its who you trust, government or people. Mr. Lehrer all right. Now were going to go to closing statements. Vice president gore, youre first. Vice pres. Gore thank you very much, jim, and ill begin by answering your questions your last question. I believe that a lot of people are skeptical about people in Politics Today because we have seen a time of great challenge for our country. Since the assassination of our best leaders in the 60s, since the vietnam war, since watergate, and because we need Campaign Finance reform. I would like to tell you something about me. I keep my word. I have kept the faith. Ive kept the faith with my country. I volunteered for the army. I served in vietnam. I kept the faith with my family. Tipper and i have been married for 30 years. We have devoted ourselves to our children and now our nearly oneandahalfyearold grandson. I have kept the faith with our country. Nine times i have raised my hand to take an oath to the constitution, and i have never violated that oath. I have not spent the last quarter century in pursuit of personal wealth. I have spent the last quarter century fighting for middleclass working men and women in the United States of america. I believe very deeply that you have to be willing to stand up and fight no matter what powerful forces might be on the other side. If you want somebody who is willing to fight for you, i am asking for your support and your vote and, yes, your confidence and your willingness to believe that we can do the right thing in america, and be the better for it. Weve made some progress during the last eight years. We have seen the strongest economy in the history of the United States. Lower crime rates for eight years in a row. Highest private Home Ownership ever, but ill make you one promise here. You aint seen nothing yet. And i will keep that promise. Mr. Lehrer governor bush, two minutes. Gov. Bush well, jim, i want to thank you and thank the folks here at Washington University and the Vice President. Appreciate the chance to have a good, honest dialogue about our differences of opinion. I think after three debates the good people of this country understand there is a difference of opinion. There is a difference between big federal government and somebody who is coming from outside of washington who will trust individuals. Ive got an agenda that i want to get done for the country. Its an agenda that says were going to reform medicare to make sure seniors have got Prescription Drugs and to give seniors different options from which they can choose. Its an agenda that says were listen to the young voices in Social Security and say were going to think differently about making sure we have a system, but also fulfill the promise to the seniors in america. A promise made will be a promise kept should i be fortunate enough to become your president. I want to have the military keeping the peace. I want to make sure the Public School system in america keeps its promise so not one child is left behind. After setting priorities, i want to give some of your money back. I dont think the surplus is the governments money. I think its the peoples money. I dont think the surplus exists because of the ingenuity and hard work of the federal government, i think it exists because of the ingenuity and hard work of the american people. And you ought to have some of this surplus so you can save and dream and build. I look forward to the final weeks of this campaign. Im asking for your vote. For those of you for me, thanks for your help. For those of you for my opponent, please only vote once. [laughter] but for those who have not made up their mind, i would like to conclude by this promise. Should i be fortunate enough to become your president , when i put my hand on the bible, i will swear to not only uphold the laws of the land, but i will also swear to uphold the honor and the dignity of the office to which i have been elected, so help me god. Thank you very much. Mr. Lehrer a closing piece of business before we go. The Debate Commission wants reaction to the three kinds of formats used in the debates this year, and you may register an opinion at their website at www. Debates. Org. Vice president gore, governor bush, thank you. And good night from Washington University in st. Louis. [applause] [indistinct conversations] American History tv is on social media. Follow us. Coauthor of fighting for the speakership, house and the rise of party government, discusses the history of electing a speaker of the u. S. House to congress. Examines how the process has changed since 1789 and the influence of partisanship on those changes. Archives hosted this event and provided the video. It seems any determination thank you for braving the elements. I am the historian at the center for legislative archives, the sponsor of thiri