Good evening from the clerk Athletic Center at the university of massachusetts and boston. Im jim of the news hour of pbs and i welcome you to the first of three 90 minute debates between the democratic candidate for Vice President , president , are gore and the democratic candidate traditionally bush of texas. The debates are sponsored by the commission on president ial debates and they will be conducted within formats and rules agreed to buy the commission and the campaigns. Tonight well have the candidates at podiums. No answer to a question can exceed two minutes, rebuttals are limited to one minute. As moderator i have the option to follow up and to extend any particular given take it another three and a half minutes. But even then those who go answer can exceed to minutes. The candidates under their rules may not question each other directly. There will be no Opening Statements and each candidate may have up to timmins for closing statement. The questions and the subjects were chosen by me alone. I have told no one the two campaigns or the commission, or anyone else involved what they are. There is a small audience in the hall tonight. They are not here to participate. Only to listen. I have asked and they have agreed only to remain silent for the next 90 minutes, except for right now when they will applaud as we welcome the two candidates. Governor bush, and Vice President gore. And now the first question as determined by flip of a coin it goes to Vice President gore. Vice president gore you have questioned whether governor bush has the experience to be president of the United States. What exactly do you mean . Jim, first of all i would like to thank the sponsors of the debate and the people of boston for hosting a debate. Would like to think governor bush for participating, and i would like to say im happy to be here with the chip and our family. I have actually not questioned governor pushes experienced. I have questioned his proposals. And here is why. I think this is a very important moment for our country. We have achieved extraordinary prosperity, and in this election america has to make a important shaw is. Will we use our prosperity to enrich not just a few but all our families. I believe we have to make was and responsible choices. If im interested with the presidency, here are the choices that i will make. I will balance the budget every year. I will pay down the National Debt. Open medicare and Social Security in a locked box and protect it. And i will cut taxes for middle class families. I believe that it is important to resist the temptation to squander the surplus. If im interested with the presidency i will help parents and strengthen families, because if we have prosperity that grows and grows, we still wont be successful unless we strengthen families. By for example ensuring that children can always go to schools that are safe. By giving parents the tools that will protect their children against cultural collusion. I will make sure that we invest in our country and our families. And i meet investing in education, health care, the environment, and middle class tax cuts and retirement security. Thats my agenda and thats why i think its not just a question of experience. President , bush one minute rebuttal. We come from different. Places i come from west texas. Im the governor, the chief executive and sets agendas. I think were gonna find that difference reflected in the budgets. I want to take one half of the surplus in dedicated to Social Security. One quarter of the surplus for important projects. And i want to send one quarter of the surplus back to people who pay the bills. I want everybody who pays taxes to have their tax rate cut. And that stands in contrast of my worthy opponents plan which will increase the size of government dramatically. His plan is three times larger than president clintons proposed plan eight years ago. It is a plan that will have 200 new programs, expanded programs and create to 20,000 new bureaucrats. It empowers washington. Tonight youre going to hear that my passion and my vision stump our markets to be able to make decisions for themselves in their own lives. So i take it by your, answer then, mister Vice President thats been a interview recently with the New York Times and you said you questioned whether or not a governor bush has experience enough to be president , you are talking about strictly policy differences. Yes. Jim i said that his tax cut plan for example raises a question of whether its the right choice for the country. And let me give you an example of what i mean. Hunter governor pushes tax cut proposal, he would spend more money on tax cuts for the wealthiest 1 them all of the news banning he proposes for education, health care, Prescription Drugs and National Defense all combined. Now i think those are the wrong priorities. Under my proposal, for every dollar that i propose in spending for things like education and health care, i will put another dollar into middle class tax cuts. And for every dollar that i spent in the two categories i will put two dollars towards paying down the National Debt. I think its very important to keep the debt point down and completely eliminated. And i also think its also very important to go to the next stage of welfare reform. Our country has cut the welfare rolls and half. Ive fought hard for my days in the senate and Vice President to cut the welfare rolls and weve moved minds of people in america to good jobs. Its time for the next stage and welfare reform and include fathers and not only mothers. There had governor. Let me say obviously tonight we heard some phony numbers about what went to do. Over the next ten years were going to have ten trillion dollars revenue that comes into her treasury and anticipate spending 21 million. My plan says what it was passed 1. 10 trillion of that to people, surely we can to the hardworking people who pay the bills. Theres a difference of opinion. My opponent thinks the government, the surpluses the governments money. Thats not what i think. I think its the hardworking people of americas money and i want to share that many with. You have more money to build and safer your families. Its a difference of opinions. Its the different of government making decisions for you and you getting more money to make decisions for yourself. Let me just follow up one question. When you hear Vice President gore question your experience, do you read at the same way, that hes talking about policy differences only . Yes, i take him for his word. Look, i fully recognize im not of washington. Im from texas. And hes got a lot of experience, but so do. I and ive been the chief executive officer of the second biggest state in the. Union have a probe record of working with both republicans a democrats which is what our nation needs. Somebody that can come to washington and say lets forget about the finger pointing and get positive things done on medicare, Prescription Drugs, Social Security, and so i take him for his word. Jim, if i could just respond. I know that. The governor used the phrase phony numbers. If you look at the plan and at the numbers up these numbers are correct. He spends more money for tax cuts for the wealthiest 1 and all of his new spending proposals for health, care pressure shun jugs, education, and National Events all combined. I agree that the surpluses the American Peoples money, its your money. Thats why i dont think we should give nearly half of it to the wealthiest 1 because the other 99 have had an awful lot to do with building the surplus in our prosperity. Three and a half minutes is up. New question. Its probably about wealthy people. Governor, brush you have a question. This is a company question to the caution i ask Vice President for. You have questioned whether Vice President gore has demonstrated the Leadership Qualities necessary to be present of United States. What you mean by that . Heres what i have said. Jim. I have said that eight years ago they campaigned on Prescription Drugs for seniors. And four years ago they campaigned on getting Prescription Drugs for seniors. And now theyre campaigning im getting Prescription Drugs for seniors. It seems like they cant get it down. Nothing me blame other folks, but it is time to get somebody in washington whos going to work with both republicans and democrats to get some positive things than when it comes to a seniors. And so would i have said is that theres been some missed opportunities. Theyve had a chance. Theyve had a chance to pour consensus. Ive got a plan on medicare for example, thats a two stage plan that says will have immediate help for seniors and but i call immediate helping hand, 48 billion dollar program. But i also want to say to seniors, if your happy with medicare the way it is, fine, you can stay in the program. But were going to give you additional choice just like to give federal employees in federal Employee Health plan. They variety of choices to choose social seniors. And my point has been, as opposed to politicizing an issue like medicare, in other words, holding it up as it, issue hoping somebody brexit and try to clubber them over the head with it for political purposes. This year in the year 2000 its time to get it done once and for all. Thats what i have been critical about the administration for. Same with Social Security. I think there was a Good Opportunity to bring republicans and democrats together to reform the Social Security system so seniors will never go without. The sense Social Security today will have their promise made, but also to give younger workers the option at their choice of being able to manage some of their own money in the private sector to make sure there is a Social Security system around tomorrow. There are a lot of Young Workers that are rallies we go to that when they hear that ill trust them at their option to be able to manage, under certain guidelines, some of their own money to get a better rate of return said that they will have a Retirement Plan in the future, they began to nod their heads and they want to different attitude in washington. One minute rebuttal Vice President. Well jim under my plan all seniors will get Prescription Drugs under medicare. The governor has described medicare as a government email. Its not, and let me explain the difference. Under the Medicare Prescription Drug proposal i making heres how it works. You go to your own doctor. And your doctor chooses your prescription. And no each mo or Insurance Company can take those chases away from you. Then you go to your own pharmacy. You fill the prescription, and medicare pays have the cost. If youre in a very poor family or for a very high costs, medicare will pay all the costs, a 25dollar premium, and much Better Benefits than you can possibly find in the private sector. Now heres the contrast. 95 of all seniors would get no help whatsoever under my opponents plan for the first four or five years. Now one thing i dont understand gem, is why is it that the wealthiest 1 get their tax cuts for the first year, the 95 of seniors have to wait four to five years before they get a single penny . I guess my answer to that is the man is running on mattis care, trying to fight fight and people in the voting. Both its just not the way i think and its not my intentions and my plan. I want all seniors to Prescription Drugs and medicare. We need reform medicare. Theres been opportunity to do supposed mission has failed to do it. And so seniors will have not only medicare plan where the procedures will have Prescription Drugs paid for but there will be a variety of options. The Current System today has meant a lot for a lot of seniors, and i really appreciate the intentions of the Current System, and as i mentioned if you are happy with the system can stay in it. But there are a lot of procedures that havent kept up in medicare with current times. Theres no Prescription Drug benefits. No drug therapy. Not prevented mantises. No vision care. We need to have a modern system to help seniors, and the idea of supporting a federally controlled 132,000 page document bureaucracy as being a compassionate wave for seniors, and the only compassionate source of care for seniors is just not my vision. I believe we ought to give seniors more options. I believe we ought to make the system work better. But i know this. I know it will require a different kind of leader to go to washington to say to both republicans and democrats lets come together. You had your chance, Vice President , youve been here for eight years or nothing has been done. My point is that my plan not only trusts seniors with options, my plan sits side 3. 4 trillion dollars for medicare over the next ten years. My plan also says it is going to require a new approach in washington d. C. Its going to require somebody who can walk across the partisan divide. If i could respond to that. Jim, under my plan i will put medicare in a ironclad lock box and prevent money from being used for anything other than medicare. The governor has declined to endorse that idea even though the republican as well as Democratic Leaders in congress have endorsed it. I would be interested to see if he would this evening say that he would put medicare and elect bucks. I dont think he will because under his plan if you look at the numbers, 100 billion dollars comes out of medicare just for the wealthiest 1 in the tax cut. Now here is the difference. Some people who say the word reform actually mean cuts. Under the governors plan, if you kept the same fee for service that you have now under medicare, your premiums would go up by between 18 and 47 , and that is the study of the congressional plan that hes modeled his proposal on by the medicare actuaries. Let me give you one quick example. Theres a man here tonight named George Mckinney for milwaukee. Hes 70 years old, he has high blood pressure, his wife has a heart trouble. They have an income of turn four doesnt dollars a year. They cant pay for the Prescription Drugs and so there some of the ones to go to canada regularly in order to get the Prescription Drugs. Under my, plan half of their costs would be paid right away. Under governor bushes plan they would get not one penny for four to five years and then they would be forced to go into and each and owe or to an Insurance Company and ask them for coverage, but there would be no limit on the premiums or the deductibles or any of the terms and conditions. I cannot let this go by, the old style washington politics. Were wanting to syria in the voting booth. Under my plan the man gets needed help with Prescription Drugs. Its called immediate helping hand instead of squabbling and figure pointing can get immediate help. Let me say something. Can i make one other point . They get 25,000 dollars a year income. That makes them ineligible. Look, this is a man who has great numbers. He talks about numbers. Im beginning to think not only did he invent the internet, but he invented the calculator. Its fuzzy math. Hes trying to scare people in the voting booth. Under my tax plan that he continues to criticize, i set a. Third the federal government should take no more than a third of anybodys check. But i also drop the bottom rate from 50 of temper scent. Because by far the vast majority of the help quoted people at the bottom and of the economic letter. If your family of four in massachusetts, making 50,000 dollars to get 50 cut in the federal income taxes you pay. Its from 4000 to about 2000. Now the difference in our plants is i want the 2000 to go to you. And the Vice President would like to be spending the 2000 on your behalf. One quick thing gentlemen. These are your rules. Im doing my best. Were way over the three and a half. I have no problems with it. Just have a Quick Response . We are almost five minutes on this. It is just clear you can go to the website in luck. If you make more than 25,000 dollars a year you dont get a penny of health under the bush Prescription Drug proposal for at least 45 years, and they are pushed into a medicare, into an age mo or Insurance Company plan, and there is no limit on the premiums are the deductibles or any of the conditions. And the Insurance Company say it wont work and they wont offer these plans. Let me ask you both and will move on on the subject. As a practical matter, both of you want to bring Prescription Drugs to seniors. Correct . Correct. The difference is i want to bring it to 100 percent and he brings it to only 5 . Thats just totally false. Totally false for him to just end up here and say that. Let me make sure the seniors hear me loud and clear. They had the chance to get something done. Im go to work with democrats and republicans to reform the system. While seniors will be covered. All four seniors will have the Prescription Drugs paid for and in the meantime were gonna have a plan to help for seniors in the meantime could be when your two. Years let me call your attention to the key word there. He said all poor seniors. No wait a minute, all seniors are covered under the Prescription Drugs in my. Plan in the first . Here if we can get it done in the first, here you bet. Yours is based in ears. Its a two peace plan. For the first four years it takes a year to pass it and for the first four years only the pork. Robert middle class seniors like George Mckinney and his wife are not covered for four to five. Years i have an idea. If any more to say about this you considering a closing statement and will move on. Okay . New question. Vice president gore. How would you crown trust your approach to preventing future oil price and supply problems like we have now to the protest of governor bush . Excellent question. Here is the simple difference. My plan has not only a short term component, but also a long term component. And it focuses not only an increasing the supply, which i think we have to do, but also on working on the consumption side. Now in the short term, we have to free ourselves from the domination of the Big Oil Companies that we have the billeted to manipulate the price from opec, and they want to raise the prices. And in the long term we have to give new incentives for the development of domestic resources like deep gas in the western gulf, like stripper wells for oil, but also renewables horses of energy. And domestic sources better cleaner and better. And im proposing a plan that will give tax credits and tax incentives for the Rapid Development of new kinds of cars and trucks and buses and factories and boilers and furnaces that dont have as much pollution, that dont burn as much energy, and that help us get out on the cutting edge of the new technologies that will create millions of new jobs. Because when we sell these new products, here we will then be able to sell them overseas. There is a ravenous demand for them overseas. Now another big difference is governor bush is proposing to open up some of our most precious environmental treasures, like the Arctic National wildlife for huge for the Big Oil Companies to go in and start producing oil there. I think thats the wrong choice. It would only give us a few months worth of oil and the oil wouldnt start flowing for many years into the future. I dont think its a fair price to pay to destroy precious ports of americas environment. We have to bet on the future, and move beyond the Current Technologies to have a whole new generation of more efficient, cleaner, energy technology. Its an issue i know a lot about. I was a small oil person for a while and west texas. This is an administration thats had no plan. And all of a sudden the result of having no plan have caught up with america. First and foremost we have to fully fund like heap which is a way to help low income folks, particularly here in the east a pea for high fuel bills. Secondly, we need an active explosion program in america. The only way to become less dependent on foreign sources of crude oil is explored home. You but i want to open up a small part of alaska because when that field is on line it will produce 1 Million Barrels a day. Today we import 1 Million Barrels from saddam hussein. I would rather that 1 million come from our own hemisphere, our own country, as opposed to saddam. Same i want to build more pipelines to move natural gas throughout this hemisphere. I want to develop the Coal Resources in america, and have clean coal technologies. We have got abundant supplies of energy here in america and we better get after, it we better start exploring it or we will be in deep trouble in the future because of our dependency upon foreign sources of crude. So if somebody is watching tonight and listening to with the two of you just, said is it fair to say, okay, the differences between governor bush and Vice President gore are as follows. You are for doing something on consumption and and your first doing something on the production. And let me clarify. After doing something both on the supply side and production side and on the consumption side. Let me, say i found one thing in governor bushes and so that we certainly agree on, and thats the low income heating assistance program. I commend you for supporting that. I work to get 400 Million Dollars just a couple weeks ago. And to establish a permanent Home Heating Oil reserve here in the northeast. Now, as for the proposals that ive worked for for renewables and conservation and efficiencies, and the new technologies, the fact is for the last few years in congress we faced a lot of opposition to them. Theyve only approved about 10 of the gender that ive helped to send up there. I think we need to get serious about this energy crisis, both in the congress and in the white house, and if you intrust me with the presidency, i will tackle this problem and focus on new technologies that will make us less dependent on big oil or foreign oil. How would you draw the difference . I would first say that you should have been tackling for the last seven years. Secondly, the difference is that we need to explore at home. And the Vice President doesnt believe in exploration for example in at last guy. This lot of shut in gas that we need to be moving out of the alaska pipeline. Theres an interesting issue in the north west as well. Thats whether or not we can move dams that produce hydroelectric energy. Im a keeps removing dams in the northwest, i dont know where the Vice President sympathy source of Renewable Energy we need to keep in line. I was in coal country in West Virginia yesterday. Theres an abundant supply of coal in america. I know we can do a better job of clean coal technologies. I would ask congress for two billion dollars to be sure that we have the clinical technologies in the world. Life of the elderly, life of those living across the. Country life of the unborn. Thats better fact i think the number one goal for the country is that every child, born and unborn ought to be protected under the law and protect life. I know we have to change the lines before we get there in america. What i do believe is we can find a good, Common Ground on issues a parental consent or parental notification. I know we need to ban partial birth abortions. This is a place for my point and i have strong disagreements. I believe banning partial birth abortion is a step to reducing the number of abortions in america. This is an issue that will require a new attitude. Weve been battling over abortion for a long period of time. Surely, this nation can come together to promote the value of life. Surely we can fight off these laws that will encourage doctors or allow doctors to allowed to take the lives of our seniors. Surely we can Work Together to create a culture of life so some of these youngsters who feel like they can take a neighbors life with a gun will understand that thats not the way america is meant to be. And surely we can find Common Ground to reduce the number of abortions in america. As to the drug itself, i mentioned i was disappointed. I hope the fda took its time to make sure that american women will be safe who use this drug. Vice president gore . Well, jim, the fda took 12 years and i do support that decision. They determined it was medically safe for the women who use that drug. This is indeed a very important issue. First of all, on the issue of partial birth or socalled lay term abortion, i would sign a lot banning that procedure provided that doctors have the ability to save a womans life or to act if her health is severely at risk. And thats not the main issue. The main issue is whether or not the roe v. Wade decision is going to be overturned. I support a womans right to choose. My opponent does not. It is apartment because the next president is going to appoint three, maybe even four justices of the Supreme Court. And governor bush has declared to the anti choice groups that he will appoint justices in the mold of scalia and clarence thomas, who are known for being the most vigorous opponents of a womans right to choose. Heres the difference. He trusts the government to order a woman to do what it thinks she ought to do. I trust women to make the decisions that affect their lives, their destinies and their bodies. And i think a womans right to choose ought to be protected and defended. Governor, we will go to the Supreme Court question in a moment, but make sure i understand your position. If youre elected president , not through appointments to the fda, you wont support legislation to overturn this . I dont think a president can unilaterally overturn it. The fda has made its decision. That means you want, three point minutes, to the fda and asked him to. [inaudible] i think once a decision has been made, its been made, unless its proven to be unsafe to women. Jim, the question you asked, if i heard you correctly was would you support legislation to overturn it . If i heard the statement the day before yesterday, he said he would ordered his fta appointee to review the decision. Now that sounds to me a little bit different. I just think we ought to support the decision. I said i would make sure that that women would be safe who used the drug. On the Supreme Court question. Should a voter assume, youre prolife. I am prolife. Should a voter assume that all judicial appointments he made to the Supreme Court, or any other court, federal court, will also be prolife . Voters should assume i have no litmus test on that issue or any other issue. But voters will know ill put competent judges on the bench. People who will strictly interpret the constitution and will not use the bench to write social policy. Thats going to be a big difference between my opponents and me. I believe that the judges ought not to take the place of the legislative branch of government. That they are appointed for life and that they ought to look at the constitution is sacred. They shouldnt misuse their bench. I dont believe in a liberal activist judges. I believe in strict constructionists and those are the kind of judges i will appoint. I named for Supreme Court judges in the state of texas, and i would ask people to check out their qualifications. Their deliberations. They are good solid men and women who have made good sound judgments on behalf of the people of texas. What kind of appointments should they expect from you . Both of us used similar language to reach an exactly opposite outcome. I dont favor a litmus test, but i know that there are ways to assess how a potential justice interprets the constitution. And in my view, the constitution ought to be interpreted as a document that grows with our country and our history. And i believe for example that there is a right of privacy in the fourth amendment. And when the phrase a strict constructionist is used, and when the names of scalia and thomas are used as benchmarks for who would be appointed, those are code words and nobody should mistake this, for saying the governor would appoint people who would overturn roe v. Wade. Its very clear to me. I would point people who have a philosophy that i think would make it quite likely that they would uphold roe v. Wade. Is the Vice President right . Is that a code word for overturning roe v. Wade . It sounds like the Vice President is not right very many times tonight. I just told you the criteria on which i will appoint judges. Ive had a record of appointing judges in the state of texas. Thats when a governor gets to do. A governor gets to name Supreme Court judges. He also reads all kinds of things into my tax plan and into my medicare plan. I just want to viewers out there to listen to what i have to say about it. Thats a yes. Thats a code. Reverse the question. What code phrases should be read by what you said about what kind of people you will appoint . It would be very likely that they will uphold roe v. Wade. But i do believe its going to use a litmus test. If you look at the history of a Lower Court Judges rulings, you can get a pretty good idea of how they will interpret questions. Now a lot of questions are First Impression and these questions that have been seen many times come up in a new context, and so but, you know, this is a very important issue. Because a lot of young women in this country take this right for granted and it could be lost. It is on the ballot in this election, make no mistake about it. I will tell you what kind of judges hell put on their. Hell put liberal activist judges who will use their bench to subvert the legislature. That is what hell do. Thats not right. New subject, new question. Vice president gore, if president mellow civic of yugoslavia fuses to accept the election result and leave office, what action, if any, should the United States take to get him out of their . Well, hes lost the election. His opponent has won the election. Its overwhelming. Milosevic government refuses to release the vote count. There is now a general strike going on. They are demonstrating. I think we should support the people of serbia and, yugoslavia as they call serbia plus montenegro, and put any pressure in every way possible to recognize the lawful outcome of the election. The people of serbia have acted very bravely in kicking this guy out of office. Now he is trying to not release the votes and then go straight to a socalled Runoff Election without even announcing the results of the first vote. Now weve made it clear, along with our allies, that when milosevic leaves, then serbia will be able to have a more normal relationship with the rest of the world. That is a very strong incentive that we have given them to do the right thing. Bear in mind also, milosevic has been indicted as a war criminal and he should be held accountable for his actions. Now, we have to take measured steps because the sentiment within serbia is, for understandable reasons, still against the United States because their nationalism has led even if they dont like milosevic, they still have some feelings lingering from the nato action there. So we have to be intelligent in the way we go about it. But make no mistake about it we should do everything we can to see that the will of the serbian people expressed in this extraordinary election is done. And i hope that hell be out of office very shortly. Governor bush, one minute. Well, im pleased with the results of the election. As the Vice President is. Its time for the man to go. It means that the United States must have a strong diplomatic hand with our friends in nato. Thats why its important to make sure our alliances are as strong as they possibly can be to keep the pressure on mr. Milosevic. This will be an interesting moment for the russians to step up and lead as well. It would be a wonderful time for the russians to step into the balkans and convince mr. Milosevic its in his best interest and his countrys best interest to leave office. The russians have a lot of sway in that part of the world and we would like to see them use that sway to encourage democracy to take hold. So its an encouraging election. Its time for the mentally. What if he doesnt leave, mister president . One of all the things, all the diplomatic efforts, all the pressure from all around the world, and he still doesnt go . Is this the kind of thing to be specific, the u. S. President would consider the use of u. S. Military force to get him gone . And this particular situation, no. Bear in mind that we have a lot of sanctions in force against serbia right now. And the people of serbia know that they can escape all those sanctions if this guy is turned out of power. Now, i understand where the governor has said about asking the russians to be involved, and under some circumstances that might be a good idea, but being is they have not yet been willing to recognize kostunica as the lawful winner of the election, im not sure its right for us to invite the president of russia to mediate this dispute there because we might not like the results that come out of that. They currently favor Going Forward with a Runoff Election. I think thats the wrong thing. I think the governors instinct is not necessarily bad because we have worked with the russians in a constructive way in kosovo, for example, to end the conflict there. But i think we need to be very careful in the present situation before we invite the russians to play the lead role in mediating. Well obviously we would not use the russians if they did not agree with our answer, mister Vice President. Well, they dont. Let me say this to you, i want to use force. I want to use force. You want to use force . No. Why not . Because its not in our National Interest to use force in this case. I would use pressure and diplomacy. Theres a difference with what the president did, which i supported, in kosovo in this. Its up to the people in this region to figure out how to take control of their country. New question. How would you go about, as president , deciding when it was in the National Interest to use u. S. Force, generally . Well, if its in our vital National Interests, and that means whether or not our territory is threatened or people could be harmed. Whether or not our alliances, our defense alliances are threatened. Whether or not our friends in the middle east are threatened. That would be a time to seriously consider the use of force. Secondly, whether or not the mission is clear. Whether or not it was a clear understanding as to what the mission would be. Thirdly, whether or not we were prepared and trained to win. Whether or not our forces, who owe our of high morale and high standing in well equipped. And finally, whether or not there was an exit strategy. I would take the use of force very seriously. I would be guarded in my approach. I dont think we can be all things to all people in the world. I think weve got to be very careful when we commit our troops. The Vice President and i have a disagreement about the use of troops. He believes in the nation building. I would be very careful about using our troops as a nation builders. I believe the role of the military is to fight and win war and therefore prevent war from happening in the first place. So i would take my responsibility seriously. And it starts with making sure we rebuild our military power. Morale in todays military is too low. We are having problem meeting recruiting goals. We met the goals this year but in the previous years weve not met recruiting goals. Some of our troops are not well equipped. I believe we are over extended into many places. And therefore i want to rebuild the military power. It starts with a billion dollar pay raise for the men and women who wear the uniform. A billion dollars more than the president recently signed into law. Its to make sure our troops are well housed and well equipped. Bonus plans to keep some of our high skilled folks in the services and a commander in chief who clearly sets the mission. And the mission is to fight and win war and therefore prevent war from happening in the first place. Vice president , gore, one minute. Let me tell you what i will do. First of all i want to make it clear, our military is the strongest best trained best equipped, best lead fighting force in the world and in the history of the world. Nobody should have any doubt about that, least of all our adversaries or potential adversaries. If you intrust me with the presidency, i will do whatever is necessary in order to make sure our forces stay the strongest in the world. In fact in my tenyear Budget Proposal i have set aside more than twice as much for this purpose as governor bush has in his proposal. Now i think we should be reluctant to get involved in some place in a foreign country. But if our National Security is at stake if we have allies if weve tried every other course if we are short military action will succeed and if the costs are proportionate to the benefits we should get involved. Now, just because we dont want to get involved everywhere doesnt mean we should back off anywhere it comes up. I disagree with the proposal that maybe only when oil supplies are at stake that our National Security is at risk. I think that there are situations like in bosnia our coastal low where there is a genocide, where our National Security is at stake there. I agree that our military is the strongest in the world today. Thats on the question. The question is will it be the strongest in years to come . The warning signs are real. Everywhere i go around the campaign tate campaign trail, i see the moms and dads whose son or daughter may wear the uniform. And they tell me about how discouraged their son or daughter may be. A recent poll was taken among 1000 enlisted personnel. As well as officers. Over half of whom are going to leave the service when their time of enlistment is up. The captains are leaving the service. There is a problem. And its good to require a new commanderinchief to rebuild the military power. If their day was honored to be flanked by colin powell and the general norman squirts cough recently stood by me and agreed with me. They said even if we are the Strongest Military if we dont do something quickly, if we dont have a clear vision of the military, if we dont stop extending our troops all over the world in nation Building Missions and were with a serious problem coming down the road, and i would prevent. That im going to rebuild our military power. Its one of the major priorities of my administration. Vice president gore, how should the voters go about deciding who is better suited to be the kind of decisions, whether its melissa village or whatever, in the military and Foreign Policy area . They should look at our proposals and look at us as people, and make their own minds. When i was a young man i volunteered for the army. I served my country in vietnam. My father was a senator who strongly oppose the vietnam war. I went to collagens great city, and most of my peers felt against the worse as i did. But i want anyway, because i knew if i didnt somebody else in the small pound of cottage, tennessee would have to go in my place. I served for eight years in the house of representatives and i served an intelligence committee, specialized at looking at arms control. I served for eight years and United States senate and served on the Armed Service committee. For the last eight years i served on the National Security council, and when the conflict came up in bosnia, i saw a genocide in the heart of europe with the most violent war on the continent of europe since world war ii. Look thats where world war one started. In the balkans. My uncle was a victim of poison gas there. Millions of americans are the result of that conflict. We have to be willing to be good, sound judgments. Incidentally i know the value of making sure that our troops have the latest technology. The governors proposed skipping the next generation of weapons. I think thats a big mistake because i think of the state the cutting edge. Governor how would you advise the voters to make the decision on this issue . I think that you have to look at how one has handled responsibility in office. Its the same in domestic policy as well jim. Whether or not you have the capacity to convince people to follow. Whether or not one makes decisions based on sound principles. Whether or not you rely on pools or focus groups to decide on the course of action. We have too much pulling in washington today need decisions on sound principles. Ive been the governor of a big state. I think one of the hallmarks of my relationship in austin, texas, is that ive had the capacity to work with both republicans and democrats. I think thats an important part of leadership. I think its what it means to build consensus. I think i showed it former state route whose democrat. One statewide officer is democrat. Its a lot of democrats who were here in the debate. They want to show their support and show that i know how to lead. So to answer your question, who can lead and who has shown the blood to get things done . We are way over the three and a half minutes. Go ahead. I think one of the key points in Foreign Policy and National Security policy is the need to reestablish the wolves fashioned principle that politics is on the waters. Edge when i was in the United States and worked with former president to pursue arms control in a responsible way. When i was in the United States and i worked with former president bush, your father. I was one of only a few democrats in the senate to support the persian gulf war. I think a partisan engine bipartisanship is a national asset. We have to find ways to reestablish it in Foreign Policy and National Security policy. Give a problem with that . Yeah. Why havent they done in seven years . New subject. You question. Should the voters of this election, Vice President gore, see this in the domestic era as a major choice between competing political philosophy . Is oh absolutely. This is a very important moment in the history of our country. Look, weve got the biggest surpluses in all of american history. The key question that has to be answered in this election is will we use that prosperity wisely in a way that benefits all of our people and doesnt go just to the view. Almost half of all the tax cut benefits, as i said under governor bush is planned go to the wealthiest 1 . I think we have to make the right and responsible choices. I think we have to invest in education, protecting the environment, health care, a Prescription Drug benefit that caused all seniors, not just the poor. Not relying on each most and insurance companies. I think we have to help parents and strengthen families by two with the inappropriate material that parents are just heartsick that their kids are exposed to. I think that the have welfare reform taking to the next stage. I think weve got to balance the budget every single year, pay down the National Debt and in fact under my proposal the National Debt will be completely eliminated the year 2012. I think we need to put mental care and Social Security in a locked box. The government will put it in a locked box. I dont think it should be uses a piggy bank for other programs. I think it needs to be put out of the budget and protected. Abdel anything that takes money out of Social Security or medicare for anything other than Social Security or medicare. Now the priorities are just very. Different on give you couple of examples. For every new dollar that i propose for spending on health care, governor bush spends three dollars for a tax cut for the wealthiest 1 . Now for every dollar that i propose to spend on education, he spends five dollars on a tax cut for the wealthiest 1 . Those are very clear differences. Governor, one minute. The man is practicing fuzzy math. Again theres differences. Under Vice President gores plan hes going to grow the federal government in the largest increase insulin didnt bins johnson in 1960. Five were talking about a massive government, folks. Were talking about adding to or increasing to hundred programs. 20,000 new bureaucrats. Imagine how many irs agents its going to take people to the g. O. A. T. His targeted tax cut for the middle class that excludes 50 million americans . Theres a huge difference in this campaign. He says hes good to give you tax cuts. 50 million of you wont receive. It he said in his speech he wants to make sure the bright people get tax relief. Thats not the right role of the president to decide right and wrong. Everybody who pays taxes ought to get tax relief. After my plan is in place, the wealthiest americans will pay a higher percentage of taxes than they do today. And the poorest of americans, 6 million, families 7 Million People wont pay any tax at. All its a huge difference. Its a difference between big explode and federal government that wants to think on your behalf, and a plan that meets priorities and liberates working people to be able to make decisions on your own. Let me just say jim, you have uttered the governor denied these numbers. Hes called the podium owned by three. The fact remains almost 30 of his proposed tax cut goes to only americans that make more than 1 Million Dollars per year. More money goes to the can i have a rebuttal here . I want to see if he buys that. Let me tell you the facts are. The facts are after my plan, the wealthiest of americans pay more taxes of the percentage of the whole than they do today. Secondly, if youre family for making 50,000 dollars in massachusetts you get a 50 tax cut. Let me give you an example. The Strong Family in allentown, pennsylvania, i campaigned with them the other. Day to make 51,000 dollars combined income. They pay about 3500 dollars in taxes. Under my, plan they get 1800 dollars of tax relief. Under Vice President gores plan, they get under 45 dollars of tax relief. Now you tell me who stands on the side of the fence. You ask them a whose plan makes more sense. There is a difference of opinion. He would rather spend the family sitting hundred dollars and i would rather the family spend their own money. Do you see that we mister Vice President . No, i, dont and not get a call names on his. Facts im just going to tell you the real factor. The analysis that hes talking about leads up more than half of the tax cuts that i have proposed. And if you just add numbers, up he still hasnt denied, it he spends more money on a tax cut for the wealthiest 1 than all of his new proposals for Prescription Drugs, health, care education, and National Defense combined. Now those are the wrong priorities. 665 billion dollars over ten years for the wealthiest 1 . And as i said, almost 30 of it goes to americans that meek more than 1 Million Dollars per year. Every middle class family is eligible for a tax cut and my proposal. Let me give you some specific examples. I believe that College Tuition up to 10,000 dollars per year ought to be tax deductible so middle class families can choose to send their children to college. I believe that all seniors should be able to choose their own doctors, and get Prescription Drugs from the pharmacists with medicare paying half the bill. I believe appearance ought to have more choices with Charter Schools and Public School choice to cinder kids always to a safe school. I think we need to make education the number one priority in our country, and treat teachers like the professionals that they are. And thats why i have made it the number one priority in my budget, not a tax cut for the wealthy. Let me talk about the tax cuts wintertime. This is a man whose plan excludes 50 million americans. Not. So take for example the marriage penalty. If you atomizer tax return, you get no marriage penalty relief. He picks and chooses. He decides who the right people are. Its a fundamental difference of opinion. I want my fellow members ticket win or. Time were with spent 25 trillion dollars in revenue in the next ten years, and we are projected to spend 21 trillion. Now, surely we can send 5 of it back to you that pay the. Bells theres a problem. This man is disparaging my plan with all this washington fuzzy math. I wanted to hear under the tax code, a problem with here in the usa. If youre single mother making 22,000 dollars a year and you have two children under the tax code, for every additional dollar you make you pay a higher marginal rate on that tax dollars than somebody making more than 20,000 dollars a year, and thats not. Right my plan drops the rate from 50 to 10 and increases the child credit for 500 dollars to 1000 dollars to make the code more fair for everybody, not just of, you not just a handful. Everybody who pieced taxes ought to get some relief. Having cleared that, up were going to a new question. Education. Governor bush. Both of you have promised dramatically to change Public Educations. Country of the public money spent on education, only 6 of that is federal money. You want to change after percent of the Public Education would 6 of the money. Is that possible . We can make a huge difference by saying if you receive federal money expected to show results. Let me give you a story about Public Education if i might. Its about keep academy in houston, texas. Its a Charter School run by some people from teeter america. Young folks saying i want to do something before my country. I want to teach. A guy named michael runs the school. It is a school full of socalled at risk children. Its how we unfortunately will certain children. Basically it means they cant learn. Its a school of strong discipline and high standards. Its one of the best schools in houston. Here are the key. Radiance hikes partitions, strong accountability, would michael says is dumped all the rules on us, just let us teach and hold us accountable for every grid. And thats what we do. And as a result the memory hispanic youngsters are some of the messed bestsellers and houston, texas. Thats my vision for Public Education allround america. Many of you viewers dont, know but laura and i sent our across a Public School. They went to austin high school. And many of the Public Schools are meeting the call. But unfortunately a lot of schools are troubling children the schools that just want to general change. Here is the rule of federal government. One is to change the head start to a written program. Two is to say if your taxes really when you can do so. The goal for every child is to learn to. Read there must be kicked it to dynastic teaching, tools teacher training, money available. Three we have to consolidate the federal programs to free districts to free the, schools and encourage invaders like. Michael let them reach out beyond the confines of the current stretcher to crude teach for the children type. Teachers four were gonna say if you receive federal money, measure third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh and eighth grade, show us if theyre able to, read raid add and subtract and if so there will be bonus. Plans but if not instead continuing to subsidize failure the money will go to the federal money will go to the parents for Public School, or Charter School oratory all or catholic school. But i care about is children and so does michael feinberg. You know whats . It can happen in america with the right kind of leadership. Vice president gore . We agree on a couple of things on education. I strongly support accountability. So does governor bush. I strongly support local controls sodas governor bush. Im in favor of tasting as a way of measuring performance. Every school and every school district, have every state test the children. Ive also proposed a voluntary National Test in the fourth grade and eighth grade any form of testing that the governor has not endorsed. I think that all of the teachers ought to be tested, including in the subjects that they teach. Weve got to recruit 100,000 new teachers. And i have budgeted for that. Weve got to reduce the class size so that the student who walks in has more oneonone time with the teacher. We ought to have universal preschool. And we ought to make College Tuition backs deductible up to 10,000 dollars a year. I would like to tell you a quick story. I got a letter today as i left sarasota florida. Im here with a group of 13 people from around the country who may prepare. We had a great time. Two days ago we ate lunch at a restaurant. The guy that Service Lunch gave me a letter today. His name is randy ellis. He has a 15 year old daughter named kayleigh who is in sarasota high school. Her science class was supposed to be for 24 students. She is the 36th student in that classroom. They sent me a picture of her in the classroom. They cant squeeze another desk in for her so she has to stand during class. I want the federal government, consistent with local control and new accountability, to make improvement of our schools in the number one priority so kayleigh will have a disk and can sit down in a classroom where she can learn. All right, so having heard the two of you, the voters have just heard the two of you, whats the difference . Whats the choice between the two of you on education . The first is, the differences there is no new Accountability Measures and Vice President gore his plan. He says hes for voluntary testing. You cant have voluntary testing. You must have mandatory testing. You must say that if you receive money, you must show us whether or not children are learning to read and write and add and substratum subtract. Thats the difference. You may claim you have mandatory testing, but you dont, mister Vice President. Thats a huge difference. Testing is the cornerstone of reform. You know how i know . Because its the cornerstone of reform in the state of texas. Republicans and democrats came together and asked the question of what can we do to make our Public Education the best in the country . Weve gone a long way working together to do so. The cornerstone is to have strong accountability and return for money and in return for flexibility. Were going to ask you to show us whether or not, we ask you to post the results on the internet. We encourage parents to take a look at the comparative results of schools. We have a strong Charter School movement that i signed the legislation to get started in the state of texas. I find if we find poor children trapped in schools that wont teach, we have to free the parents. We need to expand savings accounts we need to expand education savings accounts. Something that the Vice President s running mate supports. Theres big differences. You want support from local district from the strings of federal money. First of all, i do have mandatory testing. I think the governor may not have heard what i said clearly. The voluntary National Testing is in addition to the mandatory testing that would require of states. All schools all School Districts students themselves, and required teacher testing, which goes a step farther than governor bush has been willing to go. Here are a couple of differences though, jim. Governor bush is in favor of vouchers which take taxpayer money away from Public Schools and give them to private schools that are not accountable for how the money is used and dont have to take all applicants. Now, private schools play a great role in our society. All of our children have gone to both Public Schools and private schools, but i dont think private schools should have a right to take taxpayer money away from Public Schools at a time when caley ellis standing in that classroom. Let me give you another example. I went to a school in dade county, florida where the facilities are so overcrowded that children have to eat lunch in shifts with the first shift for lunch starting at 9 30 in the morning. Look, this is a Funding Crisis all around the country. There are fewer parents of School Aged Children as a percentage of the voting population and theres the largest generation of students ever. We are in an Information Age where learning is more important than ever. 90 of our kids go to Public Schools. We have to make it the number one priority, modernize our schools, reduce the class size, recruit new teachers, give every child a chance to learn with oneonone time in a quality, high quality, safe school. If its a Failing School shut it down and reopen it under a new principal with a Turnaround Team of specialists the way governor jim hunt does in north carolina. Heres another difference. The governor, if its a Failing School, would leave the children in that Failing School for three years and then give a little bit of money to the parents, a down payment on a down payment for private school tuition, and pretend that that would be enough for them to go out and go to a private school. Its an illusion. Wait a minute, governor. 30 seconds, governor. Okay. First of all, most Good Governance is at the state level. See, heres the mentality. Im going to make the state do this. Im going to make the state do that. All im saying is if you spend money, show us results and test every year, which you do not do, mister Vice President. You do not test every year. You can say you do to the cameras, but you dont, unless you change your plan here on the stage. I did say that. Secondly, and you need to test every year because thats where you determine if children are progressing to excellence. Secondly, one of the things that we have to be careful about in politics is throwing money at a system that has not yet been reformed. More money is needed and i spend more money, but step one is to make sure we reform the system. To have the system in place that leave no child behind. To stop this business about asking how old are you . If your ten will put you here, if youre 12 will put you here. Start asking the question, what do you know . If you dont know what youre supposed to know, will make sure you do early before its too late. No question. Weve been talking about a lot of specific issues. Its often said that in the final analysis, about 90 of being the president of United States is dealing with the unexpected, not with issues that came up in the campaign. Vice president gore, can you point to a decision, connection have taken that illustrates your ability to handle the unexpected, the crisis under fire itself etc . When the action in kosovo was dragging on and we were searching for a solution to the problem, our country had defeated the adversary on the battlefield without a single American Life being lost in combat. But the dictator milosevic was hanging on. I invited the former Prime Minister of russia to my house and took a risk in asking him to get personally involved along with of finland the head of finland to go to belgrade to take a set of proposals from the United States that would constitute basically a surrender by serbia. But it was a calculated risk that paid off. Now, i could probably give you some other examples of decisions over the last 24 years. Ive been in Public Service for 24 years, jim. Throughout all of that time, the people i have fought for have been the middle class families. I have willing to stand up to powerful interests like the big insurance companies, the Drug Companies, the hmos, the oil companies. They have good people and play constructive role sometimes but sometimes they get too much power. I cast my lot with the people even when it means that you have to stand up to some powerful interests or trying to turn the policies and the laws to their advantage. You can see it in this campaign. The Big Drug Companies support governor bush is just Prescription Drug proposal. They oppose mine because they dont want to get medicare involved because they are afraid that medicare will negotiate lower prices for seniors who currently pay the highest prices of all. Governor bush . Ive been standing up to big hollywood, big trial lawyers. What was the question . It was about emergencies, wasnt it . It was about, okay. You know, as governor, one of the things you have to deal with this catastrophe. I can remember the fires that swept parker county, texas. I remember the floods that swept our tate. I remember going down to dell rio, texas. I have to pay the administration compliment. James ali witte of fema has done a really good job of working with governors during times of crisis. But thats the time when you are tested not only its a time to test your medal. A time to test your heart when youve seen peoples lives have been turned upside down. It broke my heart to go to the flood scene intel rio where a fellow and his family just got completely uprooted. The only thing i need to do was to get aid as quickly as possible, which we did with state and federal help. I put my arms around a man and his family and cried with them. Thats what governors do. Governors are often on the front line of catastrophic situations. The question. There can be all kinds of crises, governor. A question for you. There could be a crisis, for instance, in the financial area. The stock market could take a tumble. There could be a failure of a major financial institution. What is your general attitude toward Government Intervention and such events . Well it depends obviously, but what i would do first and foremost is i would get in touch with the Federal Reserve chairman, alan green span, to find out all the facts and all the circumstances. I would have my secretary of treasury be in touch with the financial centers, not only here, but at home. I would make sure that key members of congress were called in to discuss the gravity of the situation. And i would come up with a game plan to deal with it. Thats would governors end up doing. We end up being problem solvers. We come up with practical, Common Sense Solutions for problems that we are confronted with. In this case, in the case of a financial crisis, i would get all the facts before i made the decision as to what the government ought or ought not to do. Vice president gore . First, i want to compliment the governor on his response to those fires and floods in texas. I accompanied James Lee Witt down to texas when those fires broke out. And fema has been a major flagship project about reinventing government efforts. I agree, it works extremely well now. On the International Financial crises that come up, my friend, bob reuben, the former secretary of treasury is here, hes a close adviser to me and a great friend in all respects. Ive had a chance to work with him and alan green span and others on the crisis following the collapse of the mexican pay so. When the Asian Financial crisis raised the risk of worldwide recession that could affect our economy. And now, of course, the gyros value has been dropping, but seems to be under control. But it started for me in the last eight years when i had the honor of casting the tie breaking vote to and the old economic plan here at home and put into place a new economic plan that has helped us to make some progress. 22 million new jobs, the greatest prosperity ever, but its not good enough. My attitude is you aint seen nothing yet. We need to do more and better. So, governor, would you agree that there is no basic difference here on intervening, on the federal government intervening in what might be seen as others as a private financial crisis . No, theres no difference on that. There is a difference, though, as to where the economy has meant. I think the economy has meant more for the gore and clinton folks then the gore and clinton folks have meant for the economy. I think most of the Economic Growth that has taken place is a result of ingenuity and hard work on entrepreneurship. Thats the role of government is to encourage that. In terms of the response to the question, no. Can i comment on that . You may. You know, i think that the American People deserve credit for the great economy that we have. It is their ingenuity, i agree with that. But you know, they were working pretty hard eight years ago and they had ingenuity eight years ago. The difference is weve got a new policy. Instead of concentrating on tax cuts mostly for the wealthy, we want i want tax cuts for the middle class families and i want to continue the prosperity and make sure that it enrich is not just the few, but all of our families. Look, we have gone from the biggest deficits to the biggest surpluses. We have gone from a triple dip recession during the previous 12 years to a tripling of the stock market. Instead of high unemployment, weve got the lowest African American and latin american unemployment rates in history and 22 million new jobs. But its not good enough. Too many people have been left behind. We have got to do much more. The key is job training, education, investments in health care and education, the environment, retirement security. And incidentally, we have got to preserve Social Security and i am totally opposed to diverting one out of every six dollars away from the Social Security trust fund, as the governor has proposed, into the stock market. I want new incentives for savings and investment for the young couples who are working hard so they can save and invest on their own on top of Social Security, not at the expense of Social Security, as the governor proposes. Two points. One, a lot of folks are still waiting for the 1992 middleclass tax cut. I remember the Vice President saying this is a chance, were gonna make sure that you get tax. Cuts it didnt happen. Now hes having to say it again. They had their chance to deliver a tax cut to you. Secondly, the sheerest way to bust this economy is to increase the role and the size of the federal budget. The Senate Budget committee did a study of the Vice President expenditures. Its been projected that they could conceivably bust the budget by 900 billion dollars. That means hes either gonna have to raise your taxes by 900 billion or go into the Social Security surplus for 900 billion. This is a plan thats going to increase the barack received by 20,000 people. His targeted tax cut is so detailed, so much fine print that its going to require numerous irs agents. We need somebody to simplify the code, to be, fear to continue prosperity by sharing some of the surplus with people who pay the bills, particularly those at the end of the economic ladder. If i could respond, jim. What hes quoting is not the Senate Budget committee. It is a Partisan Press release by the republicans on the Senate Budget committee. Its not worth the tax peer paid paper that its printed on. Now, as for 20,000 uber across as you call, them you, know the size of the federal government will go down in a gore administration. In the reinventing Government Program you just look at the numbers. It is 300,000 people smaller today than it was eight years ago. Now the fact is, you would have a hard time convincing folks that we were a whole lot better off eight years the and then we are today. But thats not the question. The question is will we be better off four years from now than we are today . And as for the sheerest way to threaten our prosperity, having a 1. 9 trillion tax cut, almost half of which goes to the wealthy, and oh one trillion dollar Social Security privatization proposal is the sheerest way to put our budget into deficit, raise interest rates, and put our prosperity at risk. I cant let the man continue with fuzzy math. It is 1. 3 trillion mr. Vice president. It will go to everybody who pays taxes. Im not committed gonna present that says you get tax relief and you dont. Im not gonna be apparent user. What is fair is that everybody who pays taxes ought to get relief. I thought we clear this up a while ago. New question on Social Security. Both of you have Social Security reform plans. So we could spend the rest of the evening and two or three other evenings talking about them in detail. We wont do that. But suits me. Many experts, including Federal Reserve chairman green, spin Vice President gore, say that it will be impossible for either of, you essentially, to keep the system viable on its own, during the coming baby boomer retirement onslaught, without either reducing benefits or increasing taxes. Do you disagree . I do disagree. If we can keep our prosperity going, if we can continue balancing the budget and pinned down the debt, then the Strong Economy keeps generating surpluses. Here is my plan. Heres what i would do. I will keep Social Security in a walk box, and that peace down the National Debt. And the interest savings i would put right back into Social Security. That extends the life of Social Security for 55 years. Now, i think that its very important to understand that cutting benefits under Social Security means that people like skinner from des moines, iowa, who is here, would really have a much harder time because there are millions of seniors who are living almost cant about. And you talk to them about cutting benefits. I dont go along with it. I am opposed to it. I am also opposed to a plan the diverts one out of every six dollars away from the Social Security trust fund. Social security is a trust fund that pays the checks this year with the money that is paid into Social Security this year. The governor wants to divert anyone out of every six dollars off into the stock market. Which means that he would drain a trillion dollars out of the Social Security trust fund in this generation, over the next ten years and Social Security under that approach would go bankrupt within this generation. Misleading adviser on this plan actually said that would be okay, because then the Social Security trust fund could start borrowing. It would borrow up to three trillion dollars. Now, Social Security has never done that. And i dont think it should do that. I think it should stain a lock box and i will tell you this. I will veto anything that takes money out of Social Security for privatization or anything else other than Social Security. Governor. I thought it was interesting that on the two minutes he spent about 1 million and a half on my plan, which means he doesnt want you to know that what hes doing is loading up iowa use for future generations. He put no real assets into the Social Security system. The revenues exceeded expenses and Social Security until the year 2015 which means all retirees are gonna get the promises made. For those of you who he wants to secure into the voting booth to vote for him him 11. Clear promised me to meet will be promise kept. You bet we want to allow younger workers to take some of their own money. Thats a difference of opinion. The Vice President thinks its the governments money. The payroll taxes are your money. You have to put it in prudent, safe investments of that one trillion over the next ten years goes to be to 3 million. Three trillion. The money stays within the Social Security system. Its a part of the Social Security system. He claims it will be out of Social Security. Its your money. Its a part of your retirement benefit. Its a fundamental difference between what we believe. I want you to have your own asset that you can call your. Own the you could pass from one generation to the next. I want you to get a better rate of return for your own money than the paltry 2 of the current Social Security trust gets today. Mr. Green span i think mr. Opportunity to say theres a third. Way that is to get a better rate of return on the Social Security money coming into the. Trust theres 2. 3 trillion dollars of surplus that we can use to make sure that younger workers have a Social Security plan in the future. If we are smart, if we trust, workers and if we understand the power of the company rate of interest. Here is the difference. I give a new intent of for younger workers to see their own money, and invest their own money. But not at the expense of Social Security. On top of Social Security. My plan is Social Security plus. The governors plan Social Security minus. Your future benefits would be cut that by the amount that is diverted into the stock market. And if you make that investments, thats too bad. But even before the problem hits, because the money contributed to Social Security this year is a entitlement. Thats how it works. And the money is used to pay the benefit for seniors this year. If you cut the amount going in. One out of every six dollars, then you have to cut the value of each checked by one of every six dollars unless you come up with the money from somewhere else. I would like to know from the governor. I know were not supposed to ask each other questions. But i would be interested in knowing. Does that trillion dollars come from the trust fund or does it come from the rest of the budget . Now. Theres enough money to pay Seniors Today in the court of years of Social Security. The trolling come from the surplus. Surplus is more money than needed. Let me tell you what your plan. Is its not Social Security plus. Its Social Security but she did that. That is what it is. You leave future generations with tremendous iowa use. Its time to have a leader that doesnt put off tomorrow but we should do today. Its time to have somebody to step up and say look, lets let younger workers take some of their own money and under certain guidelines investor in the private markets. The safest of federal investments yields 4 . Thats twice the amount of rate of return than the current Social Security trust. Its a fundamental difference of opinion. Here folks. Younger worker after younger worker. Heres my call it says i trust. You and you know it, this shoe is changing. Seniors now understand the promise made will be a promise kept. But younger workers now understand that we better have a government that trusts them. And thats exactly what im going to do. Could you respond to that jim . Thats a big issue. Can we do another round on it . We are almost out of time. Just. Briefly when fdr established Social Security didnt call them iowa. Use they called them the full faith and credit of the United States. If you dont have trust and, that i do. If you take it out of the surplus in the trust fund that means the trust fund goes bankrupt in this generation within 20 years. Go ahead. This is a government that thinks the 2 rate of return on your money is satisfactory. Its not. This is a government that says the younger workers cant possibly have their own assets. We need to think differently but the issue. We need to make sure our seniors get the promise made. But im here to tell you. If we dont trust your workers to manage some of their own money with the Social Security surplus, to grow from one trillion to three trillion, its going to be impossible to bridge the gap without. It would mr. Gores plan will do is cause huge payroll taxes or Mutual Benefit reductions. New question. Are the issues of character that distinguish view from Vice President gore . The man loves his wife and i appreciate that a lot. And i love. Mine the man loves his family a lot. And i appreciate that a lot because i love my family. I think the thing that discouraged to me about the Vice President was uttering those famous words, no controlling legal authority. I felt like theyre needed to be a better sense of responsibility what was going on in the white house. I believe that i believe theyve moved that sign, the buck stops here from the Oval Office Desk to the buck stops here on the lincoln bedroom. Its not good for the country and its not right. We need to have a new look about how we conduct ourselves in office. Theres a huge. Trust i see it all the time when people come up to me and say, i dont want you to let me down again. And we can do better than the past administration has done. Its time for first start. Its never a new look. Its time for a fresh start after a season of cynicism. And so i dont know the man well, but i have been disappointed about he and his administration have conducted the fundraising affairs. You know, going to a buddhist temple and then claiming it wasnt a fundraiser is just not my view of responsibility. Vice president gore . I think we ought to attack our countrys problems. Not attack each other. I want to spend my time making this country even better than it is. Not trying to be good to be a bad person. You may want to focus on scandals. I want to focus on results. As i said a couple of months ago, i stand here as my own man. And i want you to see me for who i am. Tipper and i have been married for 30 years. We became grandparents a year and a half ago. Weve got four children. I have devoted 24 years of my life to Public Service. And ive said this before and ill see it again. If you trust me with the presidency, amy not be the most exciting politician, but i will work hard for you every day. And i will fight for middle class families and working men and women and i will never let you down. So governor, what are you saying when you mentioned the fundraising scandals where the fundraising charges that involve Vice President gore . What are you saying that the voters should take from that thats relevant to the election . They ought to factored and when they go to the voting booth. In what way . I think that people need to be held responsible for the actions they take in life. I think thats part of the need for cultural change. Each of us need to be responsible for what we do. People in the highest office of the land must be responsible for decisions they make in life. And thats the way ive conducted myself as governor of texas, and thats where well conduct myself as present of the United States. Should i be fortunate enough to earn your vote . Racing all of this is irrelevant, Vice President gore . No i think the American People should take into account who we are as individuals. We are experiences. But our positions are on the issues in proposals are. I am asking you to see me for who i really am. Im offering you my own vision. My own ex variance. My own proposals. And incidentally one of them is this. This Current Campaign financing system has not reflected credit on anybody in either party. And thats one of the reasons ive said before and i will pledge here tonight, if i am president the very first bill that Joe Lieberman and i will send to the United States congress is the mccain Viral Campaign finance reform bill. And the reason it is that important is that all of the other issues, whether Prescription Drugs were all seniors that are posed by the Drug Companies or the patients bill of rights to take the decisions away from the hmos and give them to the doctors and nurses, opposed by the hmos and insurance companies, all of these other proposals are going to be a lot easier to get past for the American People if we limit the influence of special interest money, and give democracy back to the American People. And i wish governor bush would join me this evening in endorsing the mccain fine gold Campaign Finance reform bill. Governor bush. You know this man has no credibility on the issue. As a matter of, fact i read in the New York Times where he said he cosponsored the mckean Finals Campaign fundraising bill. But he wasnt in the senate with senator final. And so look what you need to know about me is that i will uphold the law. I would have an attorney general that enforces the. Love the time for campaign hundred the time for Campaign Funding reform is after the election. This man has outspent me and the special interests are out spending me. Im not going to lay down my arms in the middle of a campaign for somebody who has got no credibility on the issue. Senator mccain, excuse me one second Vice President gore senator mccain said in august it doesnt matter which one of you is president of the United States in january, theres going to be blood on the floor of the United States senate. Hell tie up the senate until Campaign Finance reform is past that includes a ban on soft money. First of all, would you support that effort by him or would you sign a bill that is finally passed that included it. I would support an effort to ban corporate soft money and labor union soft money so long as there was dos check off. Ive campaigned on this ever since the primaries. I believe there needs to be instant disclosure on the internet as to who is giving to whom. I think we need to fully enforce the law. I think we need to have an attorney general that says if laws are broken we will enforce the law. Restrict about it. Be firm about it. Look, governor bush, you have attacked my character and credibility and im not going to respond in kind. I think we ought to focus on the problems and not attack each other. One of the serious problems, hear me well, is that our system of government is being undermined by too much influence coming from special interest money. We have to get a handle on it. And like john mccain, i have learned from experience, and its not a new position for me. 24 years ago i supported full Public Financing of all federal elections. And anybody who thinks, im just saying it will be the first bill i said to the congress, i want you to know i care passionately about this and i will fight until it becomes law all. I want people to hear what he just said. He is for full Public Financing of congressional elections. Im absolutely adamantly opposed to that. I dont want the government financing congressional elections. I would just say on that wonderful note of disagreement, we have to stop here and we want to go now to your closing statements. Governor bush is first. You have two minutes. Thank, you jim. Thank you the university of massachusetts. Mister Vice President , thank you. It has been a good and lively exchange. Obviously we have huge differences of opinion. Mine is i want to empower people in their own lives. I also want to go to washington to get some positive things done. Its going to require a new spirit. A spirit of cooperation. Its going to require the ability of the republican president to reach out across the partisan divide and to say to democrats, lets come together to do what is right for america. Its been my record as governor of texas. It will be how i conduct myself if im fortunate enough to earn your vote as president of the United States. I want to finally get something done on medicare. I want to make sure Prescription Drugs are available for all seniors. And i want seniors to have additional choices when it comes to choosing their health care plans. I want to finally get something done on Social Security. I want to make sure the seniors have the promises made will be a promise kept, but i want younger workers to be able to manage some of their own money, some of their own payroll taxes in the private sector under certain guidelines to get a better rate of return on their own money. I want to rebuild our military to keep the peace. I want to have a strong hand when it comes to the United States in world affairs. I dont want to try to put out put our troops in all places at all times. I dont want to be the worlds policeman, i want to be the worlds peacemaker by having a military of high morale and a military that is well equipped. I want to have antiballistic mobile sole systems to protect ourselves and our allies from a rogue nation that may try to hold us hostage or blackmail a friend. I also want to make sure Education System fills its hope and promise. I have a strong record of working with democrats and republicans in texas to make sure no child left behind. I understand a limited role of the federal government, but it could be a constructive role when it comes to reform, by insisting that there be strong accountability systems. My intentions are to earn your vote and earn your confidence. Im asking for your vote. I want you to be on my team. And for those of you working, thanks from the bottom of my heart. For those of you making up your mind, i would be honored to have your support. Vice president gore, two minutes. I want to thank everybody who watched and listened tonight because this is indeed a crucial time in american history. We are at a fork in the road. We have this incredible prosperity, but a lot of people have been left behind. And we have a very important decision to make. Will we use the prosperity to enrich all of our families and not just a few . One important way of looking at this is to ask who are you going to fight for . Throughout my career in Public Service, i have fought for the working men and women of this country, middle class families. Why . Because you are the ones who have the hardest time paying taxes. The hardest time making ends meet. You are the ones making car payments and mortgage payments and doing right by your kids. A lot of times, there are powerful forces that are against you. Make no mistake about it, they do have undue influence in washington d. C. And it makes a difference if you have a president who will fight for you. I know one thing about the position of president its the only position in our constitution that is filled by an individual who is given the responsibility to fight not just for one state or one district or the well connected or wealthy but to fight for all of the people including, especially, those who most need somebody who will stand up and take on whatever powerful forces might stand in the way. There is a woman named when effort skinner here tonight from iowa. I mentioned her earlier. Shes 79 years old. She has Social Security. Im not going to cut her benefits or support any proposal that would. She gets a small pension, but in order to pay for her Prescription Drug benefits, she has to go out seven days a week, several hours a day, picking up hands. She came all the way from iowa in a winnebago with her poodle in order to attend here tonight. I want to tell her i am going to fight for a Prescription Drug benefit for all seniors and fight for the people of this country for perspiredy that benefits all. And we will continue this dialog next week on october 11th at Wake Forest University in Winston Salem north carolina. The format then will be informal more informal, more conversational with the two candidates seated at the table with me. The third will be october 17th at Washington University in st. Louis and that will follow a town hall type format. Also ahead the day after tomorrow on october 5th, theres the 90 minute debate between the democratic candidate for vice, senator Joe Lieberman, and the republican candidate, former secretary of defense dick cheney. It will be held at Center College in danville, kentucky. The moderator will beat bernard shot of cnn. Thank you, governor bush, Vice President gore. See you next week. And for now from boston, im jim lehrer. Thank you and goodnight. [applause] [applause] the last of the three president ial debates between Vice President al gore, and the governor george w. Bush. He was an atoll ou