Test test test test test test test test test test test captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2008 we have 2. 5 billion more out of work than were when we took office. This touches human beings. I was in a city in pennsylvania not too long ago near here, and there were about 4 or 5,000 people in the audience. It was on a train trip. I said how many adults here are out of work. About 1,000 raised their hands. Mr. Ford actually has fewer people in the private sector without jobs than when he took office. He talks about a success. 7. 9 unemployment its a terrible tragedy in this country. He would he learned how to match unemployment with inflation. Thats right. We have the highest inflation weve had in 25 years right now except under this administration, and that was 50 years ago. Weve got the highest unemployment under the Ford Administration since the depression this. Affects human beings. His insensitivity providing people a chance to work has made this a Welfare Administration not a work administration. He hasnt saved 9 billion for vetos, only net saving of 4 billion. The cost in unemployment compensation, welfare compensation, lost revenues has increased 23 billion in the last two years. This is a typical attitude that really causes havoc in peoples lives and covered over by saying our country naturally has a 6 Unemployment Rate or 7 Unemployment Rate and 6 inflation. Its a travesty. It shows a lack of leadership. Weve never had a president sense the war between the state that vetoed as many bills, four times as many as mr. Nixon and 11 have been over written. On of those bills over written only one vote in the senate and seven in the house from the republicans. This shows a breakdown in leadership. Under the rules i must stop you. Governor carter, i would like to come back to taxes. You said you want to cut taxes for middle and lower income groups. Right. Unless you will reduce itemized deduction for charitable institutions, Home Mortgage or interest or taxes or capital gains, you cant really raise sufficient revenue to provide an overall tax cut of any size. So how are you going to provide that tax relief that youre talking about . Now we have such a grossly unbalanced tax system. As i said earlier, it is a disgrace. Of all the tax benefits now, 25 of them go to the 1 of the richest people in this country. Over 50 53 to be exact tax benefits go to the 14 richest people in this country. Weve had a 50 income in payroll deductions since mr. Nixon went in office eight years ago. Mr. Ford has advocated since hes been in office over 5 billion in reductions for corporations, special interest groups, and the very, very wealthy that derive their income not from labor but investments. Thats got to be change. A few things can be done. We have now a deferral system so that the multinational corporations who invest overseas, if they make a Million Dollars in profits overseas, they dont have to pay any of their taxes unless they bring the money back into this country. They dont pay their taxes, the average american pays taxes for them. Not only that but robs this country from jobs. Instead of coming back with a Million Dollars with a shoe factory in new hampshire, vermont, if it takes it there they dont have to pay taxes on the money. Another thing is a system called disk, originally designed, proposed by mr. Nixon to propose exports. This permits a company to create dummy corporation, export their products, and then not to pay the full amount of taxes on them. This cost our government about 1. 4 billion a year. When those rich corporations dont pay that tax, the average american taxpayer pays it for them. Another one that is very important is the business deductions, jet airplanes, first class travel, the 50 martini lunch. The average working person cant take change of that, but the wealthier people can. Another system is where a dentist can invest money in, say, raising cattle and put in 100,000 of his own money, borrow 900,000, that makes a million, and mark off a great amount of loss through that procedure. There was one example, for instance, where somebody produced pornographic movies. They put in 30,000 of their own money and got 120,000 in tax savings. These special kinds of programs have robbed the average taxpayer and benefited those who are powerful and can employ lobbyists and cpas and lawyers benefit from roughly 8,000 pages of a tax code. The average american person cant do it. You cant hire a lobbyist out of unemployment checks. Governor, to follow up on your answer, in order for any tax relief to be felt by middle or lower income people you need about, according to congressional committees on this, you need about 10 billion. You listed some things. Deferral foreign income, you said 1. 4 billion. The estimate outside if you limited all tax shelters is 5 billion. Where else would you raise the revenue to provide this tax relief . Would you, in fact, do away with all business deductions and what other kinds of preferences would you do away with . I wouldnt do away with all business deductions. I think that would be a very serious mistake. If you could just do away with the ones that are unfair, you could lower taxes for everyone. I would never do anything that would increase the tacks for those who work for a living or presently required to list all their income. What i want to do is not to raise taxes but to eliminate loopholes. This is the point of my first statistic that i gave you. The present tax benefits that have been carved out over a long period of years, 50 years by sharp tax lawyers and by lobbyists have benefited just the rich. These programs that i described to you earlier, the tax deferrals overseas and tax shelters, they only apply to people in the 50,000 a year or up. I think this is the best way to approach it, to make sure that everybody pays taxes on income that they earn, and make sure you take whatever savings there is from the higher income levels and give it to the lower and middle income families. President ford. Governor carters answer tonight does not coincide with the answer he gave in an interview to the Associated Press a week or so ago. In that interview, governor carter indicated he would raise the taxes on those in the medium or middle income brackets or higher. If you take the medium or middle income taxpayer, thats about 14,000 per person. Governor carter has indicated publicly in an interview that he would increase the taxes on about 50 of the working people of this country. I think the way to get tax equity in this country is to give tax relief to the middle income people who have an income from roughly 8,000 up to 25 or 30,0 30,000. They have been shortchanged as we have taken 10 million taxpayers off the tax rolls in the last eight years and added to the minimum tax provision to make all people pay more taxes. I believe in tax equity for taxpayer, increasing personal exemption. Mr. Carter wants to increase taxes for roughly half of the taxpayers of this country. The governor has also played a little fast and loose with the facts about vetos. The records show president roosevelt vetoed on an average of 55 bills a year. President truman vetoed on the average, when he was president , about 38 bills a year. I understand that governor carter when he was governor of georgia vetoed between 35 and 40 bills a year. My average in two years is 26. But in the process of that, we have saved 9 billion. One final comment, governor carter talks about the tax bills and all the inequities that exist in law, i must remind him democrats have controlled congress for the last 22 years, and they wrote all the tax bills. Mr. Reynolds. I suspect that we could continue on this tax argument for some time but id like to move onto another area. Mr. President , everybody seems to be running against washington this year, and id like to raise two coincidental events and ask you whether you think, perhaps, this may have a bearing throughout the country. The House Ethics Committee has just now ended its investigation of daniel shore. After several months and many thousands of dollars, trying to finland out how he obtained and caused to be published a report of the congress that probably is the property of the American People. At the same time the Senate Committee on standards and conduct has voted not to begin an investigation of a United States senator because of allegations against him that he may have been receiving corporate funds illegally over a period of years. Do you suppose, sir, that events like this contribute to the feeling in the country that maybe theres something wrong in washington . And i dont mean just in the executive branch but throughout the whole government. There is considerable antiwashington feeling throughout the country, but i think the feeling is misplaced. In the last two years we have restored integrity in the white house and set high standards in the executive branch of the governme government. The antiwashington feeling, in my opinion, ought to be focused on the congress of the United States. For example, this congress very shortly will spend a billion dollars a year for its housekeeping, its salaries, expenses and the like. The next congress will probably be the first billion Dollar Congress in the history of the United States. I dont think the American People are getting their moneys worth from the Majority Party that run this congress. We in addition see that in the last four years, the number of employees hired by the congress has gone up substantial, much more than the Gross National product, much more than any increase throughout our society. Canning is hiring people by the droves, and the cost, as a result, has gone up. I dont see any improvement in the performance of the congress under the present leadership. So it seems to me instead of the antiwashington feeling being aimed at everybody in washington, it seems to me that the focus should be where the problem is, which is the congress of the United States, and particularly the majority in the congress. They spend too much money on themselves. They have too many employees. Theres some question about their morality. It seems to me that in this election, the focus should not be on the executive branch, but the correction should come as the voters vote for their members of the house of representatives or for their United States senator. Thats where the problem is, and i hope there will be some corrective action taken so we can get some new leadership in the congress of the United States. Mr. President , if i may follow up, i think youve made it plain that you take a dim view of the majority in the congress. Isnt it quite likely, sir, that you will have a Democratic Congress in the next session, if you are elected president . And hasnt the country have a right to ask whether you can get along with that congress or whether well have continued confrontation . It seems to me we have a chance, the republicans, to get a majority in the house of representatives. We will make some gains in the United States senate, so there will be different ratios in the house as well as in the senate. As president i will be able to work with that congress. But let me take the other side of the coin, if i might. Supposing we had had a Democratic Congress for the last two years, and we had had governor carter as president. He has, in effect, said he would agree with all of he would disprove of the vetos i have made and would have added significantly to expenditures and deficit in the federal governme government. I think it would be contrary to basic concept in system of government, a system of checks and balances. We have a Democratic Congress today and fortunately weve had a republican president to check their successes with my vetos. If we have a Democratic Congress next year and a president who wants to spend an additional 100 billion a year or maybe 200 billion a year with more programs, we will have, in my judgment, greater deficits with more spending, more dangers of inflation. I think the American People want a republican president to check on any successes that come out of the next congress if it is a Democratic Congress. Governor carter. President eisenhower worked with Democratic Congress very well, even president nixon, because he was a strong leader, at least, worked with a Democratic Congress very well. Mr. Ford has vetoed, as i said earlier, four times as many per year as mr. Nixon. Mr. Ford, quite often, puts forward a program, just as a Public Relations stunt, and never tries to put it through the congress by working with the congress. I think under president nixon and eisenhower, they passed about 60 to 75 of their legislation. This year mr. Ford will not pass more than 26 of all the legislative proposals he puts forward. This is government by stalemate, and weve seen almost a complete breakdown in the proper relationship between the president who represents this country and the congress who collectively also represent this country. Weve had republican president s before who have tried to run against a Democratic Congress. I dont think the congress is mr. Fords opponent. But if he insists i be responsible for the Democratic Congress, of which i have not been a part, then i think its only fair he be responsible for the Nixon Administration in its entirety, which he was a part. Thats a good balance. The point is a president ought to lead this country. Mr. Ford, as far as i know, except for avoiding another watergate, has not accomplished one single Major Program for this country. Theres been a constant squabbling between the president and the congress, and thats not the way the country ought to be run. I might go back to one other thing. Mr. Ford misquoted an ap news story that was in error to begin with. That story reported several times that i would lower taxes for low and middle income families. That correction was delivered to the white house, and im sure the president knows about this correction but he still insists on repeating an erroneous statement. President ford, governor carter, we no longer have enough time for two complete sequences of questions. We have only about six minutes left for questionandanswers. For that reason well drop the followup question but each candidate will still be able to respond to the others answers. To the extent you can, gentlemen, please keep your remarks brief. Mr. Gannon. One important part of the governments policy, apparatus we Vice President talked about is the Federal Reserve board. Id like to ask you about something you said. That is you believe that a president ought to have a chairman of the Federal Reserve board whose views are compatible with his own. Based on the record of the last few years, would you say that your views are compatible with those of chairman arthur burns. If not, would you seek his resignation if you are elected . What i have said is the president ought to have a chance to appoint the chairman to have coterm, both serve the same fur years. The congress can modify the supply of money by modifying the income income tax laws. The president can by statements and general attitudes and the budget he proposes. The Federal Reserve has an independent status that ought to be preserved. I think mr. Burns did take a typical erroneous republican attitude in the 1973 year when inflation was so high. They assumed that the inflation rate was because of excessive demand, and therefore put into effect tight constraint on the economy, very high interest rates, which is typical also for republican administration, tried to increase the tax payments by individuals, cut the tax payments by corporations. I would have done it opposite. I think the problem should have been addressed by increasing productivity, by having put people back to work so they can purchase more goods, lower bt income taxes on individuals, raise them on corporations in comparison. Mr. Burns in that sense made a very serious mistake. I would not want to destroy the independence of the Federal Reserve board, but i do think we ought to have a cohesive Economic Policy where at least the chairman of the Federal Reserve board and the president s terms being the same and letting the congress, of course, be the third entity with independence only to the president s veto. Your response. The chairman of the board should be independent. Fortunately he has been during democratic as well as republican administrations. As a result in the last two years, we have had a responsible monetary policy. The Federal Reserve board indicated that the supply of money would be held between 4 to 4. 5 and 7 and 7. 5. They have done a good job in integrating the money supply with the fiscal policy of the executive and legislative branchs of the. Go. It would be catastrophic if the chairman of the Federal Reserve board became the tool of the Political Party that was in power. Its important for our future Economic Security that that job be nonpolitical and separate from the executive and legislative branches. Mrs. Drew. Mr. President , the real problem with the fbi, in fact, all. Intelligence agencies is there are no real laws governing them. Such laws tend to be vague and open ended. Now, you have issued some executive orders. We have learned leaving these agencies to executive discretion and direction can get them and the country in a lot of trouble. One president might be a decent man, the next one might not be. What do you think about trying to write in some more protection by getting some laws governing these agencies . You are familiar, of course, with the fact that i am the first president in 30 years who has reorganized the intelligence agencies in the federal government. The cia, Defense Intelligence agency, National Security agency and the others. Weve done that by executive order, and i think weve tightened it up, weve straightened out their problems that developed over the last few yea years. It doesnt seem to me its needed or necessary to have legislation in this particular regard. I have recommended to the congress, however, im sure youre familiar with this, legislation that would make it very proper in the right way that the attorney general could go in and get the right for wiretapping under security cases. This was the effort made by the attorney general and myself working with the congress. But even in this area, where i think new legislation would be justified, the congress has not responded. So i feel in that case, as well as in the reorganization of the intelligence agencies, as ive done, we have to do it by executive order. Im glad we have a good director in george bush, we have good executive orders. The cia and dia and nasa, nsa, are now doing a good job under proper supervision. Governor carter. Well, one of the very serious things thats happened in our government in recent years, and its continued up until now is a breakdown in trust among our people the pool of broadcasters in philadelphia have lost audio. Its not a conspiracy against governor carter or governor ford, and they will fix it as soon as possible. This debate is now within about eight minutes of its close. Despite its under auspices of the league of women voters, the pool audio from philadelphia has been lost momentarily. We hope to have it back any minute. We dont know whats happened to it. The pool audio from the walnut theater in philadelphia has been lost. We hope for the moment. We are, needless to say, trying to restore it. Do not know what has happened to it. Both candidates have lost a more or less equal number of their words. I cant hear it either, so i dont know what it is were not hearing. I think they have stopped because they have been told the sound has been lost. I think they have stopped talking. Whatever happened, we hope to have it fixed shortly. I wish i could tell you more about it, but thats all i know. I might say a word here i planned to say later when the debate was over, and, in fact, probably will say it again when the debate is over. That is at 11 30 eastern time, a half hour from now, we will be back here with a special program in which we will ask people in the audience in the theater in philadelphia, as they leave, ask others in the area, and whoever we can find whose views might be interesting what they think about the debate, who they think won, if they care to put it that way, who they think scored the most points. John chancellor and other members of our news staff are in philadelphia and will be ready with this. Thats at 11 30 eastern time after a half hour break for the local news across the country. Well be back with that. Whatever happens to the audio from the theater at this time. Again, i dont know whats happened except were not getting it. Nobody is getting it. Its the same everywhere, so you neednt change the channels looking for it, its the same on all of them. Its still out, right . Doug kiker is in the lobby outside in the hall. Doug, you cant tell us what happened there, can you . David, we dont know whats happened. Were as much surprised by whats going on as you are. They were talking and suddenly they quit. We all jumped up out here, too. This is a pool arrangement, all networks are responsible. We expect the debates to go on as soon as audio is resumed. How long it will take to fix it, whether the debate will have to be canceled, we dont know. Were isolated in a corridor. The problem is not in the theater. The problem is in the technical trucks, undoubtedly, outside the auditorium. Its a technical problem. As someone said, it is not a conspiracy. But how long its going to take to fix it, we dont know. You dont have a screwdriver and a pair of pliers on you, do you, doug . I do not, david, no. If i can make a few comments while were waiting, weve seen a very lively debate, it seems to me so far. It seems to me that both candidates are pretty much saying the same thing that they have been saying in the early parts of these campaign but making the same charges but very tough, tougher. Sometimes rough tonight. Both heavy on facts to back up their arguments. We knew governor carter came here to convince the public he did know the facts and had the knowledge. President ford is fact filled from the knowledge of his office. President ford has strongly defended his economic policies in these debates tonight. He has pointed to the fact that the improved economy is proof of their wisdom. He did this very forcefully. Mr. Carter came back, disputed this. In one of the tough, tough segments charged that president ford is insensitive to the plight of the unemployed. Excuse me. Do we have audio back now . Can you turn the sound up . We still do not have audio back. Both candidates are waiting. They have been told that they are on the air with a picture, but they are off the air with their voices. To go on tax reform president ford announced tonight he will sign that new tax bill, all 1500 pages of it, even though he said he was dissatisfied with some of the provisions in it. Mr. Carter called the present tax structure a Welfare Program for the rich. Mr. Carter also talked, and so did president ford, about the new social programs. Mr. Carter said he would install the federal programs he had promised. Should it come down to it, a choice between those programs being innovated or balancing the budget, that he would choose in favor of balancing the budget. President ford said any surplus from the federal spending should go directly right back to tax relief. Both men outlined at Great Lengths their plans to curb unemployment. Mr. Carter says he believes his programs could bring unemployment down to 3 within a few years. Mr. Ford got into the democratic platform. He said if all of the proposals on the democratic platform were adopted, it would create 60 new programs, which he said would cost 100 to 200 billion more. Mr. Carter immediately rejoined by saying that Richard Nixon said the same thing about the programs proposed by the democrats 16 years ago when john f. Kennedy was the nominee. The two men discussed draft evaders and what the programs there should be. Mr. Ford said that he does not believe in any across the board pardons. He said he believed that the amnesty program, which he put forth, is adequate and that he would not change it. Mr. Carter said that he still would grant pardon and insisted there is a difference between pardon and amnesty. The two men talked about government reorganization at some length. Jimmy carter, as he has so often done this whole election year, promised forcefully he would completely reorganize the federal government if elected and waste no time about it. President ford countered that by saying he has looked into the facts and figures of governor carters record as governor of georgia. The fact is governor carter increased the georgia budget and also increased the number of state employees while he was there. He also said that the present governor of georgia, governor busby found that the medicaid was, in governor busbys words a shamble. As far as the Democratic Congress is concerned, president ford, a republican president , charged that the Democratic Congress had not really been working with him. Jimmy carter said other republican president s have found it feasible and possible to work with Democratic Congresses. He pointed out that president eisenhower had done this. He said that Richard Nixon he said for all of his faults, i cant remember his exact words, was a strong leader and managed to work with Democratic Congress and imposed far fewer vetoes that president ford imposed. He got very tough momentarily with president ford. He said im not a member of congress. The Democratic Congress is not under my control. So he said if youre going to blame me for that, you can blame me ill blame you for watergate also. We have who just stead out the president ial press secretary. Hes talking now so well listen in. Whats going on out there . I dont know any more than you, doug. They were down to the last few minutes and the sound suddenly cut out. I dont know what the explanation is. What happens now . Will the debates continue . I dont know. We were listening upstairs on the monitor and ed newman wasnt quite saumur what was going to happen either. Unless those putting on the debates decide what to do. Youre sitting there with members of the administration, coleman, ambassador, mr. Harmon, the speechwriter. Whats your impression . How do you think your guy is doing so far . We think we had a little time to talk after the sound went off. We sort of polled each other. Everybody came to the same conclusion and that is it was a clearcut victory for the president. I dont think anybody would be surprised to hear, being partisan, youre saying that. Is this debate tougher, in your opinion, than you thought it would be . Pretty tough exchanges. I thought the president came across, though. I agree the questions were tough and the reporters were well prepared and had done a lot of research. I think the president came across, to us watching anyhow, as being in command of the situation, in control. It seemed to me he had the opportunity through the tough questions to demonstrate experience, his background, his knowledge, and his ability. The same thing, i think, also could be said for governor carter. At least he was spouting a lot of facts and figured. We havent had all of these debates yet. We havent had the completion of this one. How much time did we get cut out on, 10, 12 minutes. Do you think some provision could be made to hear whats left over, whats left out . The president said from the very beginning, doug, and the reason he wanted to do the debates in the first place and the reason he wanted them at Great Lengths, 90 minutes at a minimum, was because he felt time was needed to explore issues indepth. I think they were explored indepth tonight. Thank you very much. This is the press secretary. On the other side to the left is a man who well say he thinks jimmy carter was as clear a winner as mr. Nesson thinks mr. Ford was, that is democratic chairman Robert Strauss who is already talking. Lets listen in to what hes saying. I think it was a great flight for the American People, good night for mr. Carter. Did you think either man looked nervous or ill at ease . I didnt think either side like nervous. They both handled the questions well. As i said, i thought the president looked programmed. I thought governor carter to the Christian Mccaffrey looked responsive. They both fielded questions well. Governor carter clearly demonstrated what he wanted to demonstrate, an ability to deal with issues facing this country. Thank you very much. Youre calling winners and losers. Youre obviously saying you think jimmy carter won the debate. Ill say this. I think there were two winners, the American Public got to see the debate and two men. They both handled questions well. I think mr. Carter off were back to the debate. Lets go back to the auditorium with president ford and mr. Carter. Thank you for the kind words. I think ive got an antin antinbc well, we thought we had it, but we dont. We still dont know whats wrong nor where. We hoped wed have it back by now but we dont, nor did i know if they will continue the debates long enough to make up for the lost time. So this will be we will all learn whatever we learn together. I dont know anything. The president and mr. Carter are waiting for whatever is wrong, whatever it is. It is not in our audio as you heard from doug kiker as you heard from the theater, its a sound coming in. We dont know what the problem is but they are waiting. Were getting a lot of miscellaneous conversation from various places in the hall but not the conversation we went there to listen to, which was the president and mr. Carter, of course. It was, as youve heard, a pretty lively debate, each one landing a few blows on the other, although i dont think anyone was permanently disabled, politically speaking. Much of the argument was about what new programs might be put into effect in the federal establishment in the next term, president ial term, four years, what they will cost and how they are going to be paid for, who is going to do the tax paying in the next four years, whether the rich are going to pay it all, the middle class is going to pay it all, or if not them, who. It is, i must say, without offering any opinion about winners and losers, i must say that question was not fully answered. Perhaps some of the audience might be left unsatisfied on that score. On the one question that was dealt with firmly and decisively and clearly was that of evaders and deserters, draft deserters, ford thought the government should not go any further than it has already gone in its administration whereas carter thinks it should. His point was if nixon could be pardoned why not the evaders. Ford said he gave them a chance to work their way back into american society. Some accept it and some didnt. Doug kiker is outside the theater and can still be heard from, though the participants instead cannot. Yes, doug. Were here with jim baker, president fords National Campaign manager. Mr. Baker, let me ask you this. Did things go pretty well according to game plan tonight . Tell us how the president prepared for this and how hard did he study . Was he nervous going up there . I would be talking to 120 million people. I talked to the president last night. He was not nervous at all. He was quite relaxed, selfassured. From looking at him when he first went on stage, it would be my judgment that he was quite relaxed and quite confident and quite selfassured. Any surprises tonight . No surprises, no. I think the president did an excellent job. I think he was in command. He was decisive. More than anything else, doug, i think he answered the question. He asked for specifics, he gave specifics. Again, tell us about the preparation. Did president ford sit back and have questions bounce to him in a game plan way . There was some of that, yes. He studied. He worked hard. He worked on his preparation and he was well prepared. Sure, there was some of that. In the preparation, did the questions you tried to brainstorm, did any of them really come up . There were some that i think we anticipated very well, yes. What do you think president ford jimmy carter, of course, is ahead in the polls. What do you think president ford got out of agreeing to the bt did. After all, he is the incumbent with all the powers of office and jimmy carter isnt all that wellknown. Thats true. Jimmy carter isnt all that wellknown and his positions on the issues were even less wellknown, doug. Thats one of the major reasons we wanted this debate so governor carter would have to take positions on the issues. The president s positions are wellknown. We have a man over here, and im going to come in with you, if you dont mind. Come over, you can do us both. This is jimmy carters press secretary powell who is about to go on the air with cbs. Since were hearing this thing all together, ill ask you, how do you think your man did tonight . I think the real winner tonight was the American People. They had a good discussion. I thought governor carter was very impressive. He demonstrated a clear command of the issues, the facts and specifics that were involved in this discussion. I guess in the debate between president ford and the Democratic Congress, congress wasnt there, president ford won in the debate between the two president ial contenders, theres no doubt in my mind there was a clear advantage all the way through in terms of dealing directly with the issues in question. He was pretty tough on president ford. He said president ford was insensitive to the problems of the unemployed. He said president ford was going to blame him for Democratic Congress that he ought to be blamed for being part of watergate. I believe you misquote him there. That sometimes happens. He said if the unjust charge was made that he was responsible for all the actions of Democratic Congress, which youve never been a part of. Perhaps it would be with a bit of tongue in cheek appropriate to ask president ford for responsibility of the previous administration. He did not say he was part of watergate. How do you think these debates compared to 1960 . Do you think they were interesting or decisive. There was no way in the world i could compare, from my point of view, these debates to 1960. I was a junior in high school and those kennedynixon debates. The question of how decisive those debates were then. I dont think elections are decided on one night. It would suit me fine if the election were decided on this night, however. Could you give us a quick assessment of how your candidate did . I thought elhe did really we. He showed a tremendous command of the specifics of the details of the federal government. I think he made his points directly, comparison between republican rhetoric and their record in the white house came through very directly, so im very happy. Thank you very much. Mr. Powell, weve sasked mr. Nessen if he knows what was going on, why the mics went off. I dont know, i certainly would like to know. It happened in the middle of mr. Carters answer. A technical problem. Always a theory, conspiracy to cut them off. We have no proof of that. It was a technical foul up. Is that correct . Not only do you not have any proof, nobody has brought up the subject that i know of. Tell me this i think perhaps it shows that everybody makes mistakes every now and then. Even the networks. Thats right. Let me ask you this. I wouldnt criticize the networks, of course. How much consultation did you have and senior members have with jimmy carter in preparation for the debates. Was he anxious about it . How much rest did he gets tonight . Was he nervous. In know youre going to say he was cool as a cucumber. Tell us what he did, what he did the hour before he came here . I dont know. He and mrs. Carter were together for four or five hours this afternoon. I didnt bother them and neither did anybody else as far as i know. Hes had two or three days of rest. I suppose the best way to judge whether he was cool as a cucumber was by his performance tonight. I thought he handled himself very well, obviously, as i said. Hes primarily had time to himself. We havent engaged in rehearsals. We havent done a lot of fancy gimmicks. Weve given him time to do as he wishes, primarily early to read, study, think. I think that paid off this evening. Mr. Powell, a lot has been written in the last four or five days that jimmy carters campaign is losing steam. The playbook article, the illinois poll which shows gerald ford running ahead, a general feeling among the press covering jimmy carter that his campaign may be losing a little steam . Fortunately for most campaigns, the election is held amongst the American People, not on the day to day opinions of whatever they are, the press that happens to be covering the campaign. We have run a very active and aggressive campaign. Governor carter has submitted himself to crossexaminations four and pfeiffer times a day for the last several months. In those circumstances, theres no way you can shield yourself from an ill chosen word here and there. We think in the long run, the American People would rather have a candidate and president who meets them and takes the hard knocks and tough questions and answers them as best he can even though he might make a mistake now and then. Thank you very much. Thats press secretary for mr. Carter. Now i think back to mr. Brinkley. I gather the debate is over, is that right . The league of women voters has decided not to go ahead with the debate. Its now 11 15 in the east. It was scheduled to end 15 minutes ago. It ended a half hour ago because of some sound failure inside the hall. We do not know what happened or why or where. As i said our sound from the lobby of the theater and the outside of the theater has been normal and still is. The problem is somewhere inside the hall on or around the podium. Thats all we know, which is not a great deal. So again, the debate is over, and thats it. We have had some discussion of it. We have heard from some prominent democrats and some prominent republicans, each of whom thought his side won and gave his reasons why. Our plan is to return to the air in about a half hour for a somewhat more extensive well be back later. In the meantime katherine machen is talking to mr. Carter. Mrs. Carter, were wondering, everybody has been following this breakup in the debate. Do you think this will have any effect at all whats going on . Do you think your husband will just ride with the wave there . I certainly think if we could have done anything about it, we would have kept it going because jimmy was doing so great. I think it will come back on. Do you have any idea what hell say in his summation. I read it, i glanced at it. Ive been campaigning all day, in texas all day and got in and looked at it, glanced at it but i dont know. Hed have to tell you that. While youve been campaigning, have you noticed whether or not the interview in playbook magazine had an effect on the campaign. I think people are putting it in perspective. We havent heard anything about it this afternoon. It was such a complete distortion of what jimmy said and out of context. Everybody will read it because theres been so much publicity about it. When they do, they will see jimmy was talking about his christian religion to people who did not understand what christianity is. Its a very good article if you read it. When you were speaking to mrs. Johnson did you iron things out with her, what uhhuhs said. I had a good discussion yesterday. I met her and se shefd me, had a reception at the library. It was very pleasant. Thank you very much. Mrs. Jimmy carter. Now back to david. Well, were told the debate has ended. On the other hand president ford and governor carter are still i somewhere between the microphones you see clipped to their neckties and the Network Truck outside the hall. Beyond that i cant go because i dont know. I dont think anyone knows at the moment. If anyone did, hed fix it. We dont know whether they i keep telling you what i dont know, which is a great deal. We dont know if theyre going to continue the debate and wait for the sound to be fixed. Ed newman is saying something, no doubt interesting, but i havent the faintest idea what it is because i cant hear it. It occurred 27 minutes ago. The fault has been dealt with. And we want to thank president ford and governor carter for being so patient and understanding while this delay went on. We very much regret the technical failure. But lost the sound as it was leaving this theater. It occurred during governor carters response to what would have been, and what was the last question put to the candidates. That question went to president ford. It dealt with a control of government intelligence agencies. Governor carter was making his response, and had very nearly finished it. He will conclude that response now, after which president ford and governor carter will make their closing statements. Governor . There has been too much government secrecy. And not enough respect for the personal privacy of american citizens. It is now time for the closing statements, which are to be up to four minutes long. Governor carter by the same toss of the coin that directed the first question to you, you are to go first now. Well, tonight weve had a chance to talk a lot about the past but i think its time to talk about the future. Our nation in the last eight years has been didded. As never before. Its a time for unity. Its a time to draw ourselves together, to have a president and a congress that can Work Together, with Mutual Respect for change. Cooperating for change. And open for change so people can understand our own government. Its time for government, industry, labor, manufacturing, agriculture, education, other entities in our society to cooperate. And its a time for government to understand and to cooperate with our people. For a long time our american citizens have been excluded, sometimes misled, sometimes have been lied to. This is not compatible with the purpose of our nation. I believe in our country. It needs to be competent. The government needs to be well managed, efficient, economical. We need to have a government thats sensitive to our peoples needs. To those who are poor, who dont have Adequate Health care. Who have been cheated too long with our tax programs, who have been out of jobs, whose families have been torn apart and we need to restore the faith and the trust of the American People in o their own government. In addition to that weve suffered because we havent had leadership in this administration. Weve got a government of stalemate. Weve lost a vision of what our country can and ought to be. This is not the america that weve known in the past. Its not the america that we have to have in the future. I dont claim to know all the answers but ive got confidence in my country. Our economic strength is still there. Our system of government, in spite of vietnam, cambodia, cia, water gate, is still the best system of government on the earth and the greatest resource of all are the 250 million americans who still have within us the strength, the character, the intelligence, the experience, the patriotism, the idealism, the compassion, the sense of brotherhood, all of which we can rely on the future to restore the greatness to our country. We ought not to be excluded from our government anymore. We need a president who can go in, who derives its strength from the people. I owe the special interests nothing. I owe everything to you, the people of this country. And i believe that we can bind our wounds. I believe that we can Work Together. And i believe that if we can tap the tremendous untapped reservoir of innate strength in this country, that we can once again have a government as good as our people. And let the world know what we still know and hope for, that we still live in the greatest and the strongest and the best country on earth. President ford. On november 2nd all of you will make a very, very important decision. One of the major issues in this campaign is trust. A preponderate should never promise more than he can deliver. And a president should always deliver everything that hes promised. A president cant be all things to all people. A president should be the same thing to all people. Another issue in this campaign, governor carter has endorsed the democratic platform, which calls for more spending, bigger deficits, more inflation, or more taxes. Governor carter has embraced the record of the present congress dominated by his Political Party. It calls for more of the same. Governor carter in his acceptance speech called for more and more programs, which means more and more government. I think the real issue in this campaign, and that which you must decide on november 2nd, is whether you should vote for his promises or my performance in two years in the white house. On the 4th of july we had a wonderful 200th birthday for our great country. It was a superb occasion. It was a glorious day. In the First Century of our nations history our forefathers gave us the finest form of government in the history of mankind. In the second century of our nations history our forefathers developed the most productive industrial nation in the history of the globe. Our third century should be the century of individual freedom for all our 215 million americans today and all that join us. In the last few years government has gotten bigger and bigger. Industry has gotten larger and larger. Labor unions have gotten bigger and bigger. And our children have been the victims of mass education. We must make this next century the century of the individual. We should never forget that a government big enough to give us everything we want is a government big enough to take from us everything we have. The individual worker in the plants throughout the United States should not be a small cog in a big machine. The member of a labor union must have his rights strengthened and broadened, and our children in their education should have an opportunity to improve themselves based on their talents and their abilities. My mother and father, during the depression, worked very hard to give me an opportunity to do better in our great country. Your mothers and fathers did the same thing for you, and others. Betty and i have worked very hard to give our children a Brighter Future in the United States, our beloved country. You and others in this great country have worked hard and done a great deal to give your children, and your grandchildren, the blessings of a better america. I believe we can all Work Together to make the individuals in the future have more, and all of us working together can build a better america. Thank you, president ford. Thank you, governor carter. Our thanks, also, to the questioners and to the audience in this theater. We much regret the technical failure that caused a 28minute delay in the broadcast of the debate. We believe, however, that everyone will agree that it did not detract from the effectiveness of the debate or from its fairness. The next president ial debate is to take place on wednesday, october 6th in San Francisco at 9 30 p. M. Eastern daylight time. The topics are to be foreign and defense issues. As with all three debates between the president ial candidates and the one between the Vice President ial candidates it is being arranged by the Educational Fund in hopes of a better informed participation by the American People in the election in november. Now from the walnut street theater in philadelphia, good night. We can nights this month on American History tv were looking at past president ial debates. Wee look at the debates of 1980 and 1984. Well show the only debate between jimmy carter and former california governor Ronald Reagan, fielding questions from journalists on military spending, inflation, inner cities and the iran hostage crisis. Then from 1984 the second and final debate between incumbent president Ronald Reagan and former Vice President walter mondale. Watch tonight, starting at 8 00 p. M. Eastern and enjoy American History tv this week and every weekend on cspan3. The president s, available in paperback, hard cover and ebook, from public affairs, presents biographies of every president , inspired by conversations with noted historians about the leadership skills that make for a successful presidency. As americans go to the polls next month, to decide who should lead our country, this collection offers perspectives into the lives and events that forged each president s leadership style. To learn more about all our president s and the books featured historians visit cspan. Org thepresident s and order your copy today wherever books are sold. The second 1976 president ial debate between gerald ford and jimmy carter focused on foreign and military issues. The debate is best remembered for president fords statement that, quote, there is no soviet domination of eastern europe. Good evening, im Pauline Frederick of npr. Moderator of the second of the historic debates of the 1976 campaign between gerald r. Ford of michigan, republican candidate for president , and jimmy carter of georgia, democratic candidate for president. Thank you, president ford, and thank you, governor carter, for being with us tonight. This debate takes place befo