Sponsor of the debate between republican george bush and democrat geraldine ferraro. Our panelists are john mashich, world news and world report, jack white, correspondent for time magazine, norma quarrels, correspondent for nbc news, and robert boyd, Washington Bureau chief for night ritter newspapers. Sandra venoger, senior Political Correspondent for abc news, is our moderator tonight. Sandy . Thank you, dorothy. The order of questioning was determined by a toss of the coin. Congresswoman ferraro won the toss. She elected to speak last, therefore, Vice President bush will get the first question. The debate will be billed upon a series of questions from the four reporters on the panel. A reporter will ask a candidate a question, a followup question, and then the same to the other candidate, then each candidate will get to rebut the other. The debate will be divided into two parts. There will be a section, the first one, on domestic affairs, the second on Foreign Affairs. Now, the manner of address was decided by the candidates, therefore, it will be Vice President bush, congresswoman ferra ferraro. And we begin our questioning with mr. Mashich. John adams, the nations first president , once said, today i am nothing, tomorrow i may be everything. With that in mind, i would like to ask the following question. President bush, four years ago you ran against bill clinton on the equal rights amendment, abortion, and you even labeled his economic policies as voodoo. Now you apparently agree with him on every issue. If you should be called upon to assume the presidency, would you follow mr. Reagans policies down the line, or would you revert to some of your own ideas . I dont think theres a great difference, mr. Mashich, between my ideas and president reagans. One reason i think were an Effective Team is i believe firmly in his leadership. Hes really turned this country around. We agree on the economic program. When we came into office, why, inflation was 12. 5 , Interest Rates wiping out every single american were 21. 5 , if you can believe it. Productivity was down. Savings was down. There was despair. In fact, the leadership of the country told the people that there was a malaise out there. And this president turned it around, and ive been with him every step of the way. And of course i would continue those kinds of programs because its brought america back. America is better off. People are going back to work. And why mr. Mondale cant understand that there is a new enthusiasm in this country that america is back, there is new strong leadership, i dont know. He has one answer to the problem raise everybodys taxes. He looked right into that lens and he said out there in san francisco, he said, im going to raise your taxes. Well, hes had a lot of experience in that, and hes sure going to go ahead and do it. But i remember a statement of Lyndon Johnsons when he was looking around at why his party people werent supporting him. And he said, hey, they painted their tails white and they ran with the antelopes. There is a lot of democratic white tails running with the antelopes. Not one single democrat has introduced the mondale tax bill into the congress. Of course the support the president s economic program, and i support him in everything else. And im not sure, because of my concept of the vice presidency, that if i didnt, id go doing what mr. Mondale has done with jimmy carter, jump away from it. I couldnt do that to Ronald Reagan now, next year or any other time. I have too much trust in him, i have too much friendship for him, and i would feel very uncomfortable doing that. Some republicans have criticized mr. Mondale for now claiming he disagreed privately with jimmy carters decision to impose the grain embargo. Have you ever disagreed with any decision in the Reagan Administration and its inner circles, and where in your judgment does loyalty begin and principle begin . I owe my president my judgment. Then i owe him loyalty. You cant have the president of the United States out there looking over his shoulder, wondering whether his Vice President is going to be supporting him. Mrs. Fehr rraro has quite a few differences with mr. Mondale and i supported her on tax credits. He now says he was against it. If they win, and i hope they dont, but if they win, shell have to accommodate some views, but shell give him the same kind of loyalty that im giving president reagan. One, were not far apart on anything. Two, i can walk into that oval office any time and give him my judgment, and he might agree and he might not. But he also knows i wont be talking about it to the press or i wont be knifing in the back by leaking to make me look good and complicate the problems of the president of the United States. Congresswoman ferraro, your opponent has served in the house of representatives, hes been ambassador to the united nations, ambassador to china, member of the Intelligence Agency and now hes been Vice President for three years. How does your experience stack up to that . First of all, i wasnt born at the age of 43 when i entered congress. I did have a life before that as well. I was a prosecutor for five years in a District Attorneys Office in new caney and i was a teacher. Its not what your education is and how you held office. Its what your values are. I think if people look at my career, theyll see that im level with the people, i approach problems an liticala level with the people, i approach problems an liticalnal and i can make decisions. I, too, recall when Vice President bush was running in the primary against president reagan and he called the program voodoo economics, and it was, and it is. We are facing absolutely massive deficits. This administration has chosen to ignore it. The president has failed to put forth a plan to deal with those deficits. And if everyone believes that everything is coming up roses, perhaps the Vice President should join me as i travel around the country and speak to people. People in johnstown, pennsylvania are not terribly thrilled with whats happening in the economy because theyre standing in the light of a closed plant because theyve lost their jobs. People in youngstown, ohio have stores that are boarded up because the economy is not doing well. Its not only the Old Industries that are failing, its also the new ones. In san jose, california, theyre complaining because they cant export their hightech quality goods to japan and other countries. The people in the northwest, in the state of washington and oregon, are complaining about whats happening to the Timber Industry and the agriculture industry. So things are not as great as the administration is wanting us to believe in their television commercials. My feeling, quite frankly, is that i have enough experience to see the problems, address them, and make the tough decisions and level with people with reference to these problems. Despite the historic aspects of your candidacy, how do you account for the fact that a majority of women, at least according to the polls, favor the reaganbush ticket over the mondaleferraro ticket . I dont. Lets say im not a believer in polls. Let me say further that what we are talking about are problems that are facing the entire nation. Theyre not just problems facing women. The issues in this campaign are the war peace issues, the problems of deficits, the problems of trade deficits. We are now facing 120 billion trade deficit in this country. Were facing problems of the environment. I think what were going to be doing over the next several weeks, and im absolutely delighted the league is sponsoring these events and were now able to speak to the American Public and address the issues in a way such as this. I think youre going to see a change in those polls. Vice president bush, you have one minute to rebuttal. Well, i was glad to get that vote of confidence from mrs. Ferraro in my economic judgment. So let me make a statement on the economy. The other day she was a plant in a plant, and she said, why are so many of you voting for the reaganbush ticket . There was a long, deadly silence, and she said, come on, we delivered. Thats the problem. Im not blaming her except for the liberal voting record in the house. They delivered. They delivered 21. 5 Interest Rates. They delivered what they called malaise. They delivered Interest Rates that were right off the charts. They delivered takehome pays, checks that were shrinking, and we delivered optimism. People were going back to work, 6 million of them, and 300,000 jobs a month being created. Thats why there was that deathly silence out there in that plant, they delivered the wrong thing. Ronald reagan is delivering leadership. Congresswoman ferraro, one minute rebuttal. I think what im going to have to do is im going to start correcting the Vice President s statistics. There are 6 million more people who have jobs. Thats supposed to happen in a growing economy. In fact, in the Prior Administration, with all their problems, they created 10 million jobs. The housing Interest Rates during this administration for all americans was 14. 5 . Under the Prior Administration with all their problems, the average rate was 10. 6 . If you take a look at the number of People Living in poverty as a result of this administration, 6 Million People. 500,000 people knocked off disability rolls. You can walk around saying things are great. If thats what were going to be hearing, weve been hearing that on the commercials for the past couple months, i expect they expect the American People to believe that. Ill become a onewoman squad and well start tonight. Mr. White, congresswoman ferraro, id like to ask you about civil rights. You have been a supporter for tax credits for private and parochial schools and also to ban busing. Both of these measures proposed not only by your running mate but by every civil organizational right in the country. Have you changed your position on those . With regard to the busing rate that i proposed in 1979, both reagan and i agree on the same goal, and that is nondiscrimination. I just dont agree in the same direction he does on how to achieve it. But i dont find any problem with that. I think thats something handled by the courts and not handled by congress or the white house. We both support the integration of neighborhoods, the goals we both set forth. With reference to tax courts, i represented queens. I represented my district. Let me say as well ive also been a great supporter of Public School education. And that is something that fritz and i feel very, very strongly about for the future of this country. This administration, over the past several years, has gutted the Educational Programs available to our young people. It has attempted to knock out pell grants which are moneys to young individuals who are poor and who cannot afford to go to college. It has reduced by 25 the amount of moneys going into College Education and by a third those going into secondary and primary schools. But Fritz Mondale and i feel very strongly that if you educate your children that thats an effort and the way you build up and make a stronger america. With reference to civil rights, you have to go beyond that, and if you look at my record in the congress and Fritz Mondales record in the senate, we both have very strong civil records. This administration does not. It has come in on bobs case in civil academies, it came in on the side of discrimination against women, the handicapped and the elderly. In fact, in congress, we just passed overwhelming the civil rights bill of 1984 and this administration, the republican senate, just killed it the last week or two in congress. So there is a real difference between how the Mondale Ferraro administration will handle particularly this area. What steps do you think government can take to increase the representation of minorities and women in the work force and colleges and universities, and specifically, would you support the use of quotas to achieve those goals . I do not support the use of quotas. Both mr. Mondale and i feel very strongly about affirmative action to correct inequities. We believe steps should be taken both through government and, for instance, the Small Business administration. We have supported setasides for minority and womens businesses. Thats a positive thing. We dont feel that youre in any way hurting anybody else by reaching out with affirmative action to help those who have been disenfranchised. On the contrary, if you have a growing economy, if you create the jobs, if you allow for Small Business the opportunity with lower Interest Rates to reach out and grow, there will be more than enough space for everybody and affirmative action is a very positive way of dealing with the problems of discrimination. Vice president bush, many critics of your administration say it is the most hostile to minorities in recent memory. Have you inadvertently, perhaps, encouraged that view by supporting tuition tax credits, the antibusing amendment decided by a case in the Supreme Court, your Voting Rights extension and so forth . No, mr. White. I think our record on civil rights is a good record. You mentioned the Voting Rights extension that was extended for the longest period of time by president reagan. But we have some problems in attracting the black vote. And i think our record deserves better. We have done more for black colleges than any Previous Administration. We favor enterprise zones to give and its been blocked by tip oneill and that house of representatives, those liberals in that house blocked a new idea to bring jobs into black communities across this country. And because its not an old handout special federal spending program, its blocked there. A good idea. Id like to see that tried. Weve brought more civil rights cases in the Justice Department than the Previous Administration by far. We believe in trying something new to help these black teenaged kids. The minimum wage differential. It says, look, to an employer, hire these guys. Yes, theyre willing to work for slightly less than the minimum wage. Give them a training job in we threw out the old cita that didnt train people for jobs that existed and simply rammed them onto the government payroll and we put in a thing called the job, Training Partnership act. Wonderful new legislation thats helping blacks more and more. We think of civil rights as Something Like crime in your neighborhoods. And, for example, when crime figures are going in right direction, thats good. Thats a civil right. Similarly, we think of it as quality of life, and that means Interest Rates. You know, its funny, mr. Mondale talks about real Interest Rates. The real Interest Rate is what you pay when you go down and try to buy a tv set or buy a car or whatever it is. And the Interest Rates, when we left off, was 21. 5 . Inflation. Is that a civil right to have that going right off the chart so youre busting every american family, those that can afford it the less . No, we have a good record. We have the minority set asides and more help for black colleges and weve got it in terms of an economy thats offering people opportunity and hope instead of despa despair. Along those lines, sir, many recent studies have indicated that the poor and minorities have not really shared in the new prosperity generated by the current economic recovery. Was it right for your administration to pursue policies, economic policies that require those at the bottom of the economic ladder to wait for prosperity to trickle down from people who were much better off than they . Mr. White, its not trickling down. And im suggesting the way to work out a poverty is through real opportunity, and in the meantime, the needy are getting more help. Human resource spending is way, way up. Aid for dependent children spending is up. Immunization programs are up. Almost every place you can point contrary to the mr. Mondales i have to be careful. Contrary to how he goes around just saying everybody bad if somebody sees a silver lining. He finds a big, black cloud out there. Wane on harvest moon. Theres a lot going on. A lot of opportunity. Congresswoman ferraro, your rebuttal. The Vice President indicates that the present sign, the Voting Rights act, that was after he he did not support it while he was in the congress and the senate. It was passed despite his opposition and he did sign it because he was required to do so. In the civil rights cases that he mentioned, a great number of cases they have enforced, the reason they enforced them is because under the law they are required to do that. And im delighted that the administration is following the law. [ applause ]. With reference excuse me. This will be out of my time, not yours. Knowing and cherishing the people of this city, and knowing their restraint and motion especially in an athletic context, of which this is not one, i beseech you, try to hold your applause, please. Im sorry. I just have to correct in my 30 seconds that are left, the comments that the Vice President made with reference specifically to a program like afdc. If you take afdc, if you take food stamps, if you take go down the line on poor peoples programs, those are the programs that suffered considerably under this administrations first budget cuts and those are the ones that in the second term, second part of their term, we were able to restore some of those terribly, terribly unfair cuts to the poor people of this country. Vice president bush . Maybe we have a factual. Maybe we can ask the experts to go to the books. Theyll do it anyway. Spending for food stamps is way, way up under the Reagan Administration. Afdc is up under the Reagan Administration, and i am not going to be found wrong on that. I am sure of my facts and we are trying to help, and i think were doing a reasonable job, but we are not going to rest until every Single Person that wants a job gets a job, and this prosperity and this recovery is benefiting Many Americans benefits all americans. Miss quarrels. Vice president bush, one of the most emotional issues in this campaign has been the separation of church and state. What are your views on the separation of church and state specifically with regard to abortion and do you believe it was right for the archbishop of philadelphia to have a letter read in 305 churches urging catholics to fight abortion with their votes. I do believe in pluralism. I do believe in the separation of church and state. I dont consider abortion a religious issue. I consider it a moral issue. I believe the archbishop has every right to do everything he wants, just as i never fall to Jesse Jackson for taking his message to the pulpits of this country. Just as i never objected to the nuclear arms and the Nuclear Freeze and the people of those movements were led by priests. Suddenly because a Catholic Bishop or an evangelist feels strongly on a political issue, people are saying its merging of church and state. We favor and i speak confidently for the president , we favor separation of church and state. We favor pluralism. Now, somebody says, well, you want to restore prayer in schools. Restore prayer in schools. You dont think its right to prohibit a kid from praying in schools. For years, kids were allowed to pray in schools. We dont think thats a merger of church and state to have a nonmandatory, voluntary, nongovernmentordered prayer and yet some are accusing us of injecting religion into politics. I have no problem with what the archbishop does and i have no problem with what the evangelists on the right do and with what the priests on the left do. It didnt bother me during the vietnam war. Democrat and republican governments were led by priests encouraging people to break the law in the adage of the civil disobedience thing. So our position, separation of church and state, pluralism with no little kid with a minority religion of some sort will feel offended or left out or feel uncomfortable, but yes, prayer in school. On a voluntary basis worked for many, many years until the Supreme Court ruled differently, and i am glad we got this question because i think theres been too much said about religion and politics. We dont believe in denomination alley moving in. It wasnt our side that raised the question about our president whether he was a good christian or not, and so i please. [ applause ] and so thats our position. Separation of church and state, pluralism, respect for all. Vice president bush, four years ago you would have allowed federal financing of abortions in cases of rape and incest as well as when the mothers life was threatened. Does your position now agree with that of president reagan who in sundays debate came very close to saying that abortion is murder. You know, there has been, i have to make a confession. An evolution in my position. There have been 15 million abortions since 1973, and i dont take that lightly. Theres been a million and a half this year. The president and i do favor a human rights amendment. I favor one that would have an exception for incest and rape, and he doesnt, only for the life of the mother and i agree with him on that. So, yes, my positions evolved, but id like to see the american who faced with 15 million abortions isnt rethinking his or her position and ill just stand with the answer. I support the president s position and comfortably from a moral standpoint. So you believe its akin to murder . I support the president s position. Fine. Congresswoman ferraro, what are your views on the separation of church and state with regard to abortion . And do you believe it was right for the archbishop of philadelphia to have those letters read in the pulpits, in the city, and urged the voters to fight abortion with their vote . Let me say, first of all, i believe very sincerely in the separation of church and state. Im taking from the historical viewpoint if you go back to the 1600s when people came here, the reason they came to this country was to escape religious persecution and thats the same reason why people are coming here today, in the 1940s to escape nazism and in 1984 when they can get out of the country to escape communism so they can come here and practice their religion. Our country is founded on the principle that our government should be neutral as far as religion is concerned. And whats happened over the past several years and quite frankly, im not going let you lay on me the intrusion of state and politics or religion into politics by my comments with reference to the president s policies because it started in 1980 when this administration was running for office and the reverend Jerry Falwell became very, very involved in the campaign. Whats happened over the past four years has been a real fudging of that line with the separation of church and state. The actions of the archbishop, let me say to you, i feel they have not only a right, but a responsibility to speak up. And even though ive been the person that has been speaking up about, i do feel they have the responsibility to do so. I have no problem with it not more than i did with the priests who marched at the time of vietnam and know more than i did at the time of Martin Luther king marched of the civil rights marches. I have absolutely no problem with them speaking up. I think they have an obligation as well as a right. But what i do have a problem with is when the president of the United States gets up in dallas and addresses a group of individuals and said the to them, anybody that doesnt support the constitutional amendment for prayers in school is intolerant of religion. There are numerous groups who dont support that prayer in school. Numerous religious groups. Are they intolerant of religion . Is that what the president is saying . I also object when i am told that the reverend falwell is told that he will pick two of our Supreme Court justices. Thats going a little bit far, and in that instance, let me say to you it is more than just a fudging of the line, it is a total intrusion. And i think its a violation of our constitution. Congresswoman ferraro, as a devout catholic does it trouble you that so many of the leaders of your church disagree with you and do you think you are being treated unfairly in any way by the Catholic Church . Let me tell you that i did not come to my position on abortion very lightly. I am a devout catholic. When i was running for congress in 1978. I sat and met with a person i sat with a person i felt close to. A mondsignor, currently a bishop i spoke to him about my personal feelings that i would never have an abortion and i am not sure if i would become pregnant as a result of a rape if i would be self righteous. He said gerri, thats not good enough. You cant support the position. Okay. Thats my religious view. I will accept the teaching of the church, but i cannot impose my religious views on someone else. I do take an oath to represent all of the people of my district, not only the catholics if there comes a time where i cannot practice my religion and do my job properly, i will resign my job. Vice president bush, your rebuttal . I respect that statement. I really, truly do. We have a difference on the moral question here on abortion. I notice that mr. Mondale keeps talking in the debate and now its come up with mr. Falwell and i dont know where this kennard could have come from about mr. Falwell picking the Supreme Court justices. Ronald reagan has made one super earn, outstanding the only one hes made appointment to the Supreme Court and that was sandra day oconnor. Mr. Falwell opposed her nomination. We still have respect for him, but he opposed it, so i hope this lays to rest this slander against the president. We want justices who will interpret the constitution, not legislate. Congresswoman ferraro, your rebuttal. Yes, i still find it very difficult to believe because in the platform in which the Republican Party passed in dallas, one of the things that they did was they said that the position on abortion would be a litmus test not only for Supreme Court justices, but for other federal justices. That again seems to me a blurring of the line of the separation of church and state. The next questioning for mr. Boyd. Like Many Americans, each of you has recently had an unhappy experience with the Internal Revenue service. Im going to prolong your ordeal. Congresswoman ferraro you ,disagree with the rule that says that a candidate must report the income or assets of his or her spouse if you get any benefit from them. Your husbands tax returns show that you did benefit because he paid the mortgage and property taxes on your homes. The House Ethics Committee is examining this question, but it wont report its findings until after the election. Would you be willing to ask that committee which is controlled by democrat to hurry up its work and report before the election . Let mow say to you, i already did that. I wanted them to move ahead. If you recall, i spent about an hour and 45 minutes speaking to 200 reporters on august 21st which was the day i was required to file my Financial Statement and i sat there as long as they had questions on the issue and i believe they were satisfied. I filed more information more than any other candidate in the history of this country. Not only did i agree to file my tax returns after a little bit of prodding, my husband also agreed to file his with the not only the Ethics Committee, but with the sec, but the action that youre speaking about with the Ethics Committee was started by a right wing legal organization, a foundation knowing that i would have to that there would be an automatic inquiry. We have filed the necessary papers. I have asked them to move along. Unfortunately, they were out of session today so i dont know if they will move. But quite frankly, i would like that to be taken care of anyway because i would want it cleared up. Since that famous august 21st press conference on your family finances, you filed a new report with the Ethics Committee and that means that your previous reports were full of mistakes and omissions. For example, you failed to report 12 trips that were paid for by special interest groups. At least 18 cases your holdings were misstated. Do you think it showed good leadership or attention to duty to blame this on sloppy work by your accountant . Well, what it showed was that and it was truly that i hired an accountant who had been with our family for well over 40 years. He was filling out those ethics forms. I did not spend the time with him. I just gave him my Tax Information and he did it. I have to tell you what we have done since. I have hired a marvelous accountant. Ive spent a lot of money having him go through all those ethics forms and he will be doing my taxes over the next eight years while were in the white house. So the American Public can be sure its all going to be taken care of. Vice president bush, last year you paid less than 13 of your income in federal taxes. According to the irs, someone in your bracket normally pays about 28 of his income. What you did was perfectly legal, but do you think it was fair . And is there something wrong with our tax laws that allows such large deductions for wealthy taxpayers . What that figure and the way i kind of like the way mrs. Ferraro and mr. Zaccharo reported because they reported federal taxes, state and local taxes. It gives people a clearer picture. That year i happened to pay a lot of state and local taxes which are deducted from the other, so i looked it up the other day and we have paid, i think its 42 of our gross income in taxes. Mr. Mondale the other night took what i ill be honest, i thought it was a cheap shot at me, and we did a little looking around to see about his. We cant find his 1991 tax return. It may have been released and maybe my opponent knows whether mr. Mondale released it, but we did find that his income for those three years is 1,400,000 and i think he paid about the same percentage as i did in total taxes. He also made a reference that troubled me very much, mr. Boyd. He was talking about my chauffeur. You know, im driven to work by the secret service. So is mrs. Ferraro and so is mr. Mondale. They protected his life for four years and now theyve done a beautiful job for barbara and mine. They saved the life of the president of the United States. I thought that was a cheap shot telling the American People to try to divide class, rich and poor, but the big question is isnt whether mrs. Ferraro is doing well. I know theyre doing well. I know barbara and i are doing well. And mr. Mondale is doing very well with 1. 4 million in income, but the question really is, after we get through this disclosure, is the tax cut fair . Are the people getting a fair break . And the rich are paying 6 more on taxes and the poor are getting a better break. Those lower and middle income people that have borne the burden for a long, long time. So, yes, i favor disclosure. Ive always disclosed. This year my taxes and everything i own in a blind trust. So blind, blinder than the president s where i didnt even sign my tax return, but there seemed to be an interest in it so we went to the government Ethics Committee and they agreed to change the trust. The trust has been revealed and i was sure glad to see that i had paid 42 of my gross income in taxes. [ applause ] please, please. Mr. Vice president , how can you claim that your home is in maine for tax purposes and at the same time claim that your home is in texas. Are you a texan or a new englander . Im really a texan and under the law every tax payer is allowed when he sells a house and bays another thousand get the roll ore. I know she said she has a new, good accountant. Id like to get his name and phone number because i think ive paid too much in the way of taxes, and residents, mr. Boyd, legal residents for voting is very different. The domicile, they call it, very different than the house. They say youre living in the Vice President s house. Therefore you dont get i got problems with the irs. So do a lot of people out there. I think ive paid too much, nothing ethical. Id like to get some money back. Congresswoman, ferraro your rebuttal, please. Id be happy to give you the name of my accountant, but i warn you, hes expensive. I think the question is whether or not the tax cuts and the tax system thats currently in our government uses is fair. I think the tax system is unfair, but its not something they can address in the short term. Are the tax cuts that Vice President and i got last three years ago that this president came out. No, thats not fair. If you earned 200,000, you have a 25,000 tax cut. If you earned between 20 and 40,000 you may have had a thousand. Close to 100 and if you made less than 10,000 with the budget cuts that came down the line, you suffered a loss of 400. Thats not fair. Thats basically unfair and not only is it unfair, but economically, it has darn near destroyed this country and its a 750 billion tax code. Thats one of the reasons were facing these enormous deficits that we have today. Mr. Vice president . I think ive said all i want to say. I didnt fully address myself with mr. Boyds question on disclosure. Ive led the fight in 1968 in the house and i was at the house of representatives for a couple of terms, and i led the fight for disclosure. I believe in it. Before i went into this job, i disclosed everything we had. We didnt have any private corporations, but i disclosed absolutely everything. Arthur anderson made out an assets and liability statement they believe went further than any other one and then to protect the Public Interest we went into this blind trust. I believe in the blind trust because i believe a public official in this kind of job ought not to know whether hes going benefit directly or indirectly by some holding he might have or something of that nature. Now i support full disclosure. Thank you. That ends the part of this debate devoted to domestic affairs. We will now turn to Foreign Affairs and we begin the question with mr. Mashic. Vice president bush, since your administration came to power the president has threatened a stern response against terrorism yet murderous attacks have continued in lebanon and the middle east. Who is to blame and youve been director of the central Intelligence Agency, what can be done to stop it . Terrorism is very, very difficult to stop, and i think Everybody Knows that. We had ambassadors dilled in sudan and lebanon a long time ago. When you see the israeli building in lebanon after the death of our marine, you see that hit by terrorism. The israelis with all their experience fighting terrorism, you know its difficult. When you see khomeini with his radical islam resorting to governmentsponsored terrorism, its very difficult. The intelligence business can do a good job and im always one that defends the central Intelligence Agency. I believe we ought to strengthen it, and i believe we still have the best foreign intelligence business in the world, but it is very difficult to get the Source Information that you need to go after something as shadowy as International Terror. There was a difference between iran and what happened in lebanon. In iran, you had a Government Holding a u. S. Embassy. The government sanctioning the takeover of that embassy by those students. The government negotiating with the United States governments release. In lebanon and the terror that happened at the embassy. You have the government there, mr. Jamil that wants to help fight against terrorism. That the cause of the melee in the middle east, its there today and its been there yesterday and the day before. Its had experience in that area knows it is a very different thing. So what weve got to do is use absolutely the best security possible. I dont think you can go assigning blame. The president , of course, is the best ive ever seen accepting that. Hes been wonderful about it and absolutely everything that happens, but i think fairminded people that understand International Terror knows that ooh very hard to guard against and the answer then really lies in the middle east and terrorism is happening all over the world is a solution to the palestine question. The follow on to david under the umbrella of the reagan september of 1982 initiative. That will reduce terror. It wont eliminate it. You mentioned khamenei. Some charged administration of being almost why isnt your administration done something against arab states that ferment foment this kind of terrorism . What weve done to support arab states that want to stand up against International Terror. Quite different. We believe in supporting without jeopardizing the security of israel in any way because they are our one strategic ally in the area. They are one democracy in the area and our relationship has never been better, but we do number reaching out to what they call the gcc, the Gulf Cooperative Council states, those moderate arab states in that world, and helping them with defensive weapons to guard against International Terror or radical islam perpetuated by khamenei. And because weve done that and because the saudis chopped down a couple of those intruding airplanes a while back, i think we have helped keep the peace in the persian gulf. Congresswoman ferraro, you and former Vice President mondale have criticized the president over the bomb negligence lebanon. What would you do to prevent such attacks . Let me first say that terrorism is a global problem and let me say secondly that the mr. Bush has referred to the embassy that was held in iran. I was at the white house in january, i guess it was in 81 when those hostages, all 52 of them came home alive. It was at that time that president reagan gave a speech welcoming they were so excited to see them back, but what he said was the United States has been embarrassed for the last time. Weve got stand tall and if this ever happens again it will be swift and immediate steps taken to address the wrong that our country has founded, has suffered. In april of 1983 i was in beirut and visited the ambassador of the embassy. Two weeks later that embassy was bombed. At that time you take a look at the crazy activities of terrorists. You cant blame that on anybody and you dont know whats going on happen. The following october there was another bombing and that bombing took place at the Marine Barracks where there are 242 young men who are killed. Right after that bombing occurred there was a Commission Set up called the Long Commission and that commission did a study with the security arrangements around where the marines were sleeping and found that there was negligence, that they did not have proper gates up, proper precautions to stop those trucks from coming in. And so the Long Commission issued a report and president reagan got up and said im commander in chief, i take responsibility and we all waited for something to be done when he took responsibility. Well, last month we had our third bombing. First time, the First Embassy there was no gate up. The second time was our marines, the gate was open. The third time the gate was there and it had not been installed. What was the president s reaction . Well, the security arrangements were not in. Our people were placed in that embassy in an unsecured time and the marines guarding it were left to go away and there were other people held guarding the embassy. Again, the president said i assume responsibility. Id like to know what that means. Are we going take proper precautions before we put americans in situations that are in danger or are we going to walk away throwing our arms up in the air and quite a reversal from the first time or is this president going take some action . Some democrats cringe at the words covert activity. Do you believe both have a legitimate role in countering terrorist activities around the world . I think they have a legitimate role in gathering information. What happened is the cia in the last bombing had given information to our administration with reference to the actual threat that that embassy was going to be bombed. It wasnt the cia that was at fault. There was a legitimate reason for its existence and thats to gather intelligence information for our security. When i see the cia doing things like theyre coming to Central America, supporting a covert war. No, i dont support that kind of activity. The cia is there meant to protect our government not there to subvert other governments. Vice president bush . Im surprised on [ applause ] please. Just heard mrs. Ferraro say she would do away with all covert action and that has serious ramifications as the Intelligence Community knows. This is Serious Business and sometimes theres quiet support for a friend and so ill leave that one there, but let me help you with the difference, miss ferraro, between iran and the embassy in lebanon. Iran, we were held by a foreign government. In lebanon you had a wanton terrorist action where the government opposed it. We went to lebanon to give people the chance to stop the bombing of civilians in beirut, to remove 13,000 terrorists from lebanon. We did. We saw the formation of a government of reconciliation and for someone to suggest as our two opponents have that these two men died in shame, they better not tell the parents of those young marines. They gave peace a chance and our allies were with us, the british, the french and the italians. Congresswoman ferraro . Let me say first of all they almost recent Vice President bush your patronizing attitude that you have to teach me about Foreign Policy. Ive been a member of congress for six years. I was there when the embassy was held hostage in iran, and i have been there and i have seen what has happened in the past several month, 17 month of your administration. Secondly, please dont categorize my answers either. Leave the interpretation of my answers to the American People who are watching this debate and let me say further, that no one has ever said that those young men who were killed through the negligence of this administration ever died in shame. No one was a child with a 19 or 20 years old, a son, would ever say that about the loss of anybody elses child. Mr. White . Congresswoman ferraro, you have said you would not your son to die in an undeclared war for an unknown cause, mr. Mondale has suggested that it may become necessary to erect a military quarantine or blockade of nicaragua. Under what circumstances would you advocate the use of military force and american combat forces in Central America. I would advocate the use of force that was necessary to protect the security of our country, protect our security interest, or protect our people or protect the interest of our friends and neighbors. Im jumping the gun, arent i . Mr. Mondale, when mr. Mondale referred to the quarantine of central park, a country in Central America, what he was referring to was a last resort after all other means of attempting to settle the situation down that region of the world had been exhausted, quite frankly, now what is being done by the administration is an americanizing and moving militarily instead of promoting the process, which as you know is the process that is in place with the support of mexico and colombia and panama and venezuela, instead of supporting the process its our administration has in nicaragua been supporting covert activities to keep that revolution going in order to overthrow the sandinista government. In el salvador was not pushing the head of the government to move toward correction of the civil rights human rights problems that existed there and now this administration seems almost befuddled by the fact that nicaragua is moving to participate in the process and el salvador and Vice President duarte is reaching out to the guerrillas in order to negotiate a peace. What mr. Mondale and i feel about the situation down there is that you deal first through negotiation that force is not a first resort, but certainly a last resort in any instance. A followup, please. Many times in this history the United States has gone to war in order to defend freedom of their lands. Does your answer mean that you would be willing to fore go the use of military force even if it meant the establishment of the militarybacked dictatorships so close to our own boarder . No. I think what we have to do is work with the government and i assume youre speaking about the government of nicaragua and work with that government to achieve a pluralistic society. They do have elections coming up on november 4th. We have to work with them to achieve a peaceful solution to bring about a pluralistic country. No, im not willing to live with a force that could be a danger to our country. Certainly i would see that our country would be there putting all kinds of pressure on the neighboring countries of el salvador to promote the society that we can all live with with the security in this country. Vice president bush, both cuba and nicaragua are reporting to make extensive preparations against an American Invasion which they claim can come this fall and even democratic opponents in congress have suggested that the Administration May be planning a december surprise invasion. Can you tell us under what circumstances a reelected rate administration would consider use of force in Central America or the caribbean . We dont think wed be required to use force. Let me point out that there are 2,000 cuban military and 7500 socalled cuban advisers in nicaragua. There are 55 American Military in el salvador. I went down with the instructions of the president to speak to the comandantes in el salvador and told them they had to move to respect human rights. They have done that. Theyre moving well. Im not saying its perfect, but the difference between el salvador and nicaragua is like the difference between night and day. El salvador went to the polls. Mr. Duarte was elected by 70 of the people 07 voting in a certifiably free election. In nicaragua you have something very different. You have a marxist lenin group, sandinistas. They have aborted their democracy. They have humiliated the holy father. They have cracked down on the only press organ there, la prensa censoring the press, something that should concern every american. They do not have human rights at all. They will not permit free elections, mr. Cruz who was the only viable challenger to nicaragua and found that the ground rules were so unfair that he couldnt even wage a campaign. One country is devoid of human rights and the other is struggling to defend their democracy. We dont like it to export the revolution. For supplies coming for such democracies as north korea, bulgaria, the soviet union and cuba to try to destabilize el salvador. Yes, were concerned about that because we want to see this trend toward democracy continue. There have been Something Like 13 countries since weve been in the move toward the democratic route and let me say grenada is not related. I have a big difference with miss ferraro. We gave those tiny caribbean countries a chance. We saved lives and most of those students said they were in jeopardy. Grenada was a proud moment because we did stand up for democracy, but as far as the threat of these countries in terms of Nuclear Weapons. No. Its mr. Mondale that proposed a quarantine, not Ronald Reagan. [ applause ] please. Considering this countrys long respect for the rule of International Law, it was right for the United States to be involved in mining the harbors of nicaragua, a country err not at war with and to subsequently refuse to allow the world cord to adjudicate the report with nicaragua . I support what were doing. It was supported to the congress under the law. I support it. My only regret is the aid for the contras, those people that are fighting, we call them Freedom Fighters. They want to see the democracy perfected for nicaragua. Am i to understand with this assault on covert action that nowhere in the world would we do something that was considered just off base when mrs. Ferraro said shes never support it . Would she never support it if the violation of human rights was necessary for Freedom Fighters. Yes, were for the contras and let me tell you about the fact of the contras, anyone who is not for this, everyone who wants to let the santa anista government prevail. All of that, the contras are not less than 5 of them supported samosa. These were people who felt the revolution were betrayed and these are people who support human rights. Yes, we should support them. Congresswoman ferraro . I spent a good deal of time in Central America in january and when an opportunity to speak to the contras after being in nicaragua and el salvador and let me say that the situation that exists now because of the administrations policies and that got better. Were not moving toward a more secure area of the world. As a matter of fact, the number of troops that the santa anistas as have accumulated has risen to 12 to 50,000 and of course, the number of cuban advisers has also increased. I did not support the mining of the harbors in nicaragua. It is a violation of International Law and congress did not support it. And as a matter of fact, just this week the congress voted to cut off covert aid to nicaragua unless and until a request is made. Theres evidence of need for it and the Congress Approves it again in march. So the covert activities which i oppose in nicaragua, those cia and covert activities in that country are not supported by the congress and not supported by the majority of people throughout the country. Vice president bush . Well, i would simply like to make the distinction again between those countries that are searching for democracy and the handful of countries that have totally violated human rights and are going the marxist route. Ortega, the comandante, head of sandinista, devout marxist. They dont believe in the church. They dont believe in the free elections and they dont believe in all of the values that we believe in. So it is our policy to support the democracies there and when you have Freedom Fighters that want to perfect that revolution and go the democratic route, we believe in giving them support. We are for democracy in the hemisphere. We are for negotiation, 3 out of every 4 has been for economic aid to support peoples chance to eat, live and be happy and enjoy life. Onefourth only was military. You wouldnt get that from listening to mr. Mondale. Vice president bush, the last three republican administrations, eisenhower, nixon and ford, none of them soft on communism, met with the soviets and got agreements on arms control. The soviets havent changed that much. Can you tell us why president reagan has not met with the soviet ministers at only met with foreign minimum ramiko less than a month ago . Yes, i can. Those were broken off into the Carter Mondale days. There have been three separate soviet leaders. During their thats in 3 1 2 years, three separate leaders. The soviets have not been willing to talk. We are the ones that went to the table in inf. We had a good proposal, a moral proposal. Ban an entire generation of intermediate Nuclear Force weapons. If you wont do that, dont leave your allies in europe in a monopoly position. The soviets with 1,200 of these things and the alliance with none. We didnt think that was the way you deter aggression and keep the peace. The president s the first thing he did when he came into office is make a proposal on the most destabilizing weapons of all. When the strategic weapon and when the soviets said, well, we dont like that we said, all right, well be more flexible. I at the urging of the president went to geneva and laid on the table a ban on chem weapons. We dont want them to have a monopoly. We said, look, lets come together. You come over here and see what were doing. Well go over there and see what youre doing, but lets save the kids of this world from chemical weapons. A brilliant proposal to get rid of all of them. The soviets, no, no, no. And the mutual balance force reduction to reduce conventional forces. Theyre not even willing to tell us the base. Mrs. Ferrero knows that. How many troops they have. We have had an agreement with them on the hotline. But the Carter Mondale made the agreement, the s. A. L. T. Agreement. But the Democratic Senate, they were democratic administration. The Democratic Senate wouldnt even ratify that agreement. It was flawed, it was unverifiable, and it was not good. Our president wants to reduce. Not just to stop. He wants to reduce dramatically Nuclear Weapons. And when the soviets know theyre going to have this strong president to deal with and when this new Administration Given more than a few months in office, then theyll talk. But if they think the opposition before they sit down are going to give up the mx, give up the b1, go for a free that locks in inferiorty in europe, all of these things before theyre willing to talk, they may just sweat it out for four more weeks. Who knows. You were once quoted as saying that a nuclear war is winnable. Is that still your belief . And if not, under what circumstances would you use Nuclear Weapons if you were president . No, i dont think its winnable. I was quoted wrong before i never knew that. I dont i dont think there would be any disagreement thats based on that ugly concept. I agree with the president. Should never be fought. Nuclear weapons should never be fought with. Thats our approach. So therefore, lets encourage the soviets to come to the table as we did at the meetings. I wish everybody could have seen that one. The president giving the facts to gramico in all of these nuclear meetings. Right on top of that subject matter. And ill bet you that he went back to the soviet union saying, hey, listen, this president is calling the shots. We better move. You know why i think well get an agreement . Because i think it is in the interest of the soviet union to make it. Just as it is in the interest of the United States. Theyre not deterred by rhetoric. I listened to their rhetoric for two years at the united nations. Ive lived in a communist country. Its not rhetoric that decides agreements. Its selfinterest of those countries. Congresswoman ferrero, you and mr. Mondale are for a verifiable Nuclear Freeze. Some democrats have said verification may not be possible. How would you verify such an agreement and make sure that the soviets are not cheating . Let me say first of all, that i dont think there that there is issue thats more important in this campaign and this election than the issue of war and peace. And since today is Eleanor Roosevelts 100th birthday, she said it is not enough to want peace. You must believe in it. Its not enough to believe in it. You must work for it. This administrations policies have indicated quite the opposite. The last time i heard Vice President bush blame the fanth that they didnt meet with the soviet leader and this is the first president in 40 years not to meet with a soviet counterpart. He said the reason was because there were three soviet leaders in the past 3 1 2 years. I went and got a computer printout. Its five paejz of the leaders the soviet leaders have met with. Theyre not little people. Theyre people like france and germany and cyprus. You go down the line. Five pages of people that the soviet leaders have managed to meet with, and somehow they couldnt meet with the president of the United States. In addition to not meeting with the soviet counterpart, this is the first president and youre right, since the start of negotiating arms control agreements who has not negotiated an arms control agreement. Not only has he not negotiated one, hes been opposed to every other one that has been negotiated, including eisenhower, including ford and including nixon. Now, let me just say that with reference to the Vice President s comments about the intent and the desire of the United States and this administration, the soviet union did walk out of the talks. I agree. But it seems to me that 1982 when the administration presented its s. T. A. R. T. Proposal, that wasnt an realistic proposal and that is a comment that was made by secretary hague after he left office. Because what it dealt with was it dealt just with landbased nuclear missiles, which is where the soviets had the bulk of their missiles. But that aside, in 1982, i believe it was, their own negotiator came out with a proposal called the walk in the woods proposals that would have limited the number of nuclear arms in europe. That proposal was turned down by the administration. A proposal presented by its own administrator. Im delighted that they met with mr. Grumeeko, but they could have had that opportunity in 1981 when he came to the u. N. , which he had done with every other president before, and in 1982 as well. I guess my congresswoman, im sorry. I have to impose a limit on you. Okay. Vice president bush . Well, i think theres quite a difference between cyprus and the leader of the free world in terms of meeting. And the soviet union will meet with a lot of different people. Weve been very close touch with others that have met with the leaders of the soviet union. But thats quite different than meeting with the president of the United States. The soviets say, well have a meeting when we think there can be progress, and yet they left those talks. Id like to correct my opponent on the walk in the woods. It was the soviet union that was unwilling to discuss the walk in the woods. They were the ones that gunned it down first and the record is very, very clear on that. Ms. Ferrero mentioned the inflexibility of our position on strategic arms. Yes, we offered first to get rid of all those. You try to reduce the ss18s and those weapons, but we said if thats not good enough, theres flexibility. Lets talk about the bombers and the planes. So thats very important. Congresswoman, he that taketh away has to give back. I robbed you of your rebuttal. Therefore youll have two minutes to rebut. For give me. You robbed me of my followup, thats what you robbed me. Ill give her the followup and then two minutes. Congresswoman ferrero, most polls show that the americans feel that the republicans more than the democrats are better able to keep the u. S. Out of war. Weve had 40 years of relative peace under president reagan. How can you convince the American Public that the world would be a safer place under Carter Mondale . I think first of all, you have to take a look at the current situation. We now have 50,000 nuclear warheads. We have we are building at the rate of five or six a day between us and we have been doing that since this administration came into office. I think what you can do is look at what theyve done and recognize theyre not going to do very much in the future. And so since theyve done nothing, we continue to build. An arms race just leads to another arms race and thats it. Vice president mondale has indicated that what he would do first of all as soon as he gets into office is contact his soviet counterpart and set up an annual summit meeting. Thats number one. I dont think you can start negotiating unit till you start talking. Secondly, he would issue a challenge. The challenge would be in the nature of temporary, mutual, verifiable, moratoria to halt testing in the air, in the atmosphere. That would respond with the challenge from the soviet union, we hope, to sit down and negotiate a treaty. That was done in 1960. I dont know what your lights are doing. You have another minute. Im watching them blinking. I have another minute. What that would do, it would give us an option to negotiate a treaty. That was done in 1960 by president kennedy, 1963. He issued a challenge to the soviet union. He said we will not test in space in the atmosphere. If you will not, they did not. In two months they sat down and negotiated a treaty. We do not now have to worry about that type of testing. It can be done, it will be done if only you have the will to do it. Again, remember, it is mutual. It is verifiable. And it is a challenge that once that challenge is not met, if testing were to resume, then wed continue testing as well. Our last series of questions on Foreign Affairs. Mr. Boyd. Congresswoman ferrero, you have had little or no experience in military matters. And yet you might someday find yourself commander in chief of the armed forces. How can you convince the American People and a potential enemy that you would know what to do to protect this nations security and do you think in any way that the soviets might be tempted to try to take advantage of you simply because you are a woman . Are you saying that i would have to have fought in a war in order to love peace . Im not saying that. Im asking you [ applause ] you know what i asked. All right. The i think what happens is when you try to equate whether or not ive had military experience, thats the natural conclusion. Its about as valid as saying that you would have to be black in order to despiz racism. Thats just not so. If you take a look at where ive been, both in the congress and where i intend to go, the type of person i am, i think that the people of this country can rely upon the fact that i will be a leader. I dont think the soviet union for one minute can sit down and make a determination about what i will do if im ever in a position to have to do something with reference to the soviet union. Quite frankly, im prepared to do whatever is necessary in order to secure this country and make sure that security is maintained. Secondly, if the soviet union were ever to believe that they could challenge the United States, then a sort of Nuclear Forces or otherwise, if i were in a position of leadership in this country, they would be assured that they would be met with swift, concise, and certain retaliation. Let me just say one other thing. Sure. The most important thing, though, i think is as a leader, that what one has to do is get to the point where youre not put into that position. And the way you get to that position of moving away from having to make a decision on force or anything else is by moving toward arms control. And thats not whats been done over the past four years. I think if you were to take a look at the failures of this administration, that would have to be number one. I will not put myself in that position as a leader in this country. I will move immediately toward arms control negotiations. For my follow, im going to borrow a leaf from the sunday night debate between your principals, and ask you what is the single question you would most like to ask your opponent here on Foreign Policy . Oh, i dont i dont have a single most question. I guess the concern that i have is a concern not only as a Vice President ial candidate but as a citizen in this country. My concern is that we are not doing anythingb to stop the arms race. And it seems to me that if we keep talking about military inferiority, which we do not have. We are at a comparable level with the soviet union. Our joint chiefs of staff has said theyd Never Exchange our military power for theirs. I guess the thing that id want is a commitment. That, you know, pretty soon theyre going to do something about making this a safer world, you know, for all of us. Vice president bush, four years ago, president reagan insisted that a military buildup would bring the soviets to negotiate seriously. Since then weve spent almost a trillion dollars on defense, but the soviets are still building their military forces as rapidly as we are and there are no negotiations. Was the president s original premise, his whole strategy, wrong . Well, i think his strategy not only was correct but is correct. Youve got to go back where we were. Clearly when we came into office, the American People recognized that we had slipped into positions of inferiority on various things. Some of our planes, as the president points out, were older than the pilots. Ships that couldnt go out to sea. And you had a major problem with the military. Actually, the morale wasnt very good either. So we have had to strengthen the military. And we are well on the way to getting that job done. America is back in terms of military strength. In terms of our ability to deter aggression and keep the peace. All at the same time, however, we have made proposals and proposals and proposals, sound proposals, on reducing Nuclear Weapons. The strategic arms production talks were good proposals and its the soviets that left the table. The intermediate Nuclear Force talks were sound talks. I wish the soviet union had continued them. The chemical weapon treaty to ban all chemical weapons, it was our initiative. Not the soviets. And we wish they would think anew and move forward to verification so that everyone would know whether the other side was keeping its word. But much more important, you reduce the level of terror. Similarly, were reducing trying to talk to them and are talking to them in vienna about conventional force reductions. Weve talked to them about human rights. Ive met with mr. Andropov. And mr. Cheryenko. We have to keep pushing forward on the moral grounds. Its my view that because this president has been strong and because weve addressed the imbalances, and i think were very close to having getting that job done, the soviets are more likely to make a deal. The soviets made an abm treaty when they thought we were going to deploy an abm system. So i am optimistic for the future. Once they realize that they will have this strong principled president to negotiate with, strong leadership, and yet with demonstrable flexibility on arms control. And now ill give you a chance, mr. Vice president , to ask a question that you would most like to ask of your opponent. I have none id like to ask of her, but id sure like to use the time to talk about the world series of something of that nature. Let me put it this way. I dont have any questions. We are so different from the the Reagan Bush Administration is so different from the Carter Mondale administration that the American People are going to have the clearest choice. Its a question of going back to the failed ideas of the past, where we came in, 21. 5 on those Interest Rates, inflation, despa despair, malaise, blaming the American People for failed leadership. Or another option. Keep this recovery going until it benefits absolutely everybody. Peace at home. Peace abroad. Prosperity. Opportunity. Id like to hear her talk on those things. But i think the yellow light is flashing, so well leave it there. Nothing on the world series . Well, ill go congresswoman ferraro . I think the Vice President s comment about the Carter Mondale administration is an indication just it really typifies this administration. Its an administration that looks backwards, not forwards and into the future. I must say that im also tickled by their comments on human rights. The soviet union in 1979 allowed 51,000 people to immigrate because, in large measure, this administrations policies over the past four years. 1,313 people got out of the soviet union in 1983 and 1984. Thats not a great record on human rights. And siblgt lgd certainly not a record on human rights. This administration has spent a trillion dollars on defense, but it hasnt gotten a trillion dollars of national security. Vice president bush, your rebuttal . No rebuttal. Well, we then can go to the closing statements. Each statement will be four minutes in length. And well begin with the Vice President. In a couple of weeks, you, the American People, will be president. In a couple of weeks you, the American People three weeks with a choice. Its the clearest choice in some 50 years. And the choice is, do we move forward with strength and with prosperity, or do we go back to weakness, despair, disrespect . Ronald reagan and i have put our trust in the American People. Weve moved some of the power away from washington, d. C. And put it back with the people. Were pulling together. The neighborhoods are safer because crime is going down. Your sons and daughters are doing better in school. Test scores are going up. Theres a new opportunity lying out there in the future. Science, technology and space offering opportunity to everybody, all the young ones coming up. And abroad theres new leadership and respect. And Ronald Reagan is clearly the strong leader of the free world. And ill be honest with you, its a joy to serve with the president who does not apologize for the United States of america. Mr. Mondale, on the other hand, has one idea, tax the American People. Then he wants to repeal indexing, to wipe out the one protection that those at the lowest end of the scale have, protect them from being rammed into higher and higher tax brackets. We just owe our country too much too go back to that kind of an approach. I would like to Say Something to the young people. I started a business. I know what it is to have a dream and have a job and work hard to employ others and really to participate in the american dream. Some of you out there are finishing high school or college, and some of you are starting out in the working place. And we want for you americas greatest gift. And that is opportunity. And then peace, yes. I did serve in combat i was shot down when i was a young kid, scared to death. All that did saw friends die. But that heightened my convictions about peace. It is absolutely essential that we guarantee the young people that they will not know the agony of war. America americans give opportunity and peace. Now we have unfinished business. We must continue to go ahead. The world is too complex to go back to vacillation and weakness. Too much going on to go back to the failed policies of the past. The future is too bright not to give it our best shot. Together, we can go forward. And lift america up, to meet her greatest dreams. Thank you very much. [ applause ] thank you very much. I must say in matters of equity, you will be allowed applause at the end of your closing statement. Go ahead and begin, please. I hope people want to applaud. Not only the bond i feel with women throughout the country as i go across america. I wouldnt be standing here if mr. Mondale didnt have the and my party didnt stand for the values that make our country strong and the future of our country and how strong this will be. I was in kentucky and spoke to the diehouse family. He works for a car dealer. Hes worried about the deficits and how high Interest Rates are going to affect his job. Every place i go, i see young parents with children who say what are we going to do to stop this Nuclear Arms Race . I was in dayton, ohio, a week and a half ago and sat with the allen family who live next door tie toxic dump and theyre very, very concerned about the fact that those toxics are seeping into the water that they and their neighbors drink. These people love this country. Theyre patriotic. Thats not the patriotism youre seeing in the commercials as you watch television these days. Their patriotism is not only a pride in a country as it is, but a pride in this country that is Strong Enough to meet the challenges of the future. You know, we find jobs for the 8. 5 Million People in this country. We make our economy stronger. That will be a patriotic act. We reduce deficits, we cut Interest Rates. Young people can buy houses. Thats profamily. That will be a patriotic act. When we educate our children so they can compete in a World Economy and thats a patriotic act. We stop the arms race and make this a safer, saner world, and thats a patriotic act. And when we keep the peace, young men dont die. And thats a patriotic act. Those are the key to the future. And who can be the leader for the future . Walter mondale was attorney general of minnesota, he led the fight for a man who could not afford to get justice because he couldnt afford a lawyer. When he was in the senate, he fought for child nutrition programs. He wrote the fair housing act. He even investigated the concerns and abuses of Migrant Workers. Why did he do that . Those werent poplar causes. No one had ever heard of clarence giddeon, the man without a lawyer. Children dont vote. And Migrant Workers arent exactly a powerful lobby in this country. But he did it because it was right. Mondale has said he would rather lose a battle over decency than win one over self interest, and i agree with him. This campaign is not over. For our country, for our future, for the principles we believe in, Walter Mondale and i have just begun to fight. [ applause ] thank you very much. I would like to thank Vice President bush, congresswoman ferraro. I would like to join you in thanking them, the city of philadelphia and the league of women voters. The president ial debate will take place in kansas city on october 21st. The subject will be Foreign Affairs, and it will begin at 8 00 p. M. Eastern time. Again our thanks. We hope youll join us on the 21st. Thank you. Week nights this month on American History tv were look at past president ial debates. Tonight we look at the president ial debate of 1976 between gerald ford and jimmy carter, the First Time Since 1960 that the major nominees participated in debates. The first debate was on domestic issues. The second focused on Foreign Policy and defense issues, including u. S. soviet relations and the credibility of the u. S. In the wake of vietnam and watergate. Watch tonight, starting at 8 00 p. M. Eastern, and join American History tv this week and every weekend on cspan3. 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