Test. Test. Test. Is make a proposal on the most destabilizing weapons of all start, the strategic weapon. When the soviets said well, we dont like that proposal, we said we will be more flexible. I at the urging of the president went to again neavia and laid on the table a treaty to ban all chemical weapons. We dont want them to have a monopoly but we said look, lets come together. You come over here and see what youre doing, youll go over here and see what were doing, but lets save the kids of this world from chemical weapons, brilliant proposal to get rid of all of them. The soviets nyet, nyet, nyet. And the soviets, theyre not even willing to tell us the base. How many troops do they have . There are four sessions. We had an agreement on the hot line but Carter Mondale made an agreement, s. A. L. T. Ii agreement. But the Democratic Senate would not even ratify that agreement. It was flawed, unverifiable and not good. Our president wants to reduce, not just to stop, he wants to reduce dramatically Nuclear Weapons. When the soviets know theyre going to have this strong president to deal with and when this new administration, mr. Chern yenko, given more than a few months in office to solidify the position, then they will talk. But to give up the things unilaterally before theyre willing to take, they may just sweat it out four more weeks. Who knows . You were once quoted as saying a nuclear war is winnable. Is that still your belief . If not, under what circumstances would you use Nuclear Weapons if you were president . No, i dont think it was winnable. I was quoted wrong, obviously. I never thought that. Soviet planning, i did learn that when i was director of central intelligence. I dont think there would be any disagreement is based on that ugly concept. But i agree with the president , should never be fought, Nuclear Weapons should never be fought with. And thats hour approach. Therefore, lets encourage the soviets to come to the table as we did at the gra mikio meeting. I wish everybody could have seen that one. The president s giving the facts in all of these nuclear meetings, excellent. Right on top of that subject matter. I bet you he went back to the soviet meeting saying, listen, this president is calling the shots. We better move. You know why i think it will get an agreement . I think it is in the interest of the soviet union to make it, just as its in the interest of the United States. Theyre not deterred by rhetoric. I listened to the rhetoric two years at the united nations. I believed in a communist country. Its not rhetoric that decides an agreement, its selfinterest of those countries. Congresswoman fa rario, you and mr. Mondale are for a verifiable nuclear freeze. Some democrats say verification may not be possible. How would you verify such an agreement and make sure that the soviets are not cheating . Let me say, first of all, i dont think there is any issue that is more important in this campaign and in this election than the issue of war and peace. Since today is Eleanor Roosevelts 100th birthday, let me quote her, its not enough to want peace, you must believe in it. Its not enough to believe in it, you must work for it. This administrations policies have indicated quite the opposite. The last time i heard Vice President bush blame the fact they did meet with the soviet leader and this was the first president in 40 years not to meet with the soviet counterpart, he said the reason was because there were three soviet leaders in the past 3 1 2 years. I went and got a computer print out. Its five pages of the World Leaders that the soviet leaders have met with. Theyre not little people. Theyre like france and germany and the president muof cyprus, down the line, five pages people of the soviet leaders managed to meet with and somehow theyp cot meet with the president of the United States. In addition to not meeting with the soviet counterpart, this is the first president , and youre right, since the start of negotiating arms control agreements, who has not negotiated an arms control agreement but not only not negotiated one, hes been opposed that every single one every other president has negotiated including eisenhower, are ford and including nixon. Now, let me just say with reference to the Vice President s comments about the intent and desire of the United States in this administration, the soviet union did walk out of the talks, i agree. But it seems to me 1982, when the administration presented its sta s. T. A. R. Proposal and it wasnt a realistic proposal. Because it dealt with just landbased nuclear missiles, which is where the soviets had the bulk of their missiles. That aside in 1982, i believe it was, their own negotiator came out with a proposal called a walk in the woods proposal, which would have limited the number of nuclear arms in europe. That proposal was turned down by the administration, proposal presented by its own administrator. Im delighted they met with mr. Gereko but they could have had the opportunity in 1981 when he came to the u. N. , which he had done with every president before and 1982 as well. I guess my big problem congresswoman, im sorry, speaking of limits, i have to impose a limit on you. Vice president bush. Well, i think theres quite a difference between mr. Ranu and cyprus and the leader of the free world in Ronald Reagan in terms of meeting. The soviet union will meet with a lot of different people. Weve been very closely in touch with mr. Mischerall and others who have met. But thats quite different than meeting with the United States. The soviets said we will have a meeting when we think there are promise and yet left those talks. I would like to correct my partner in the talk in the woods. It was the soviet union who was unwilling to discuss the talk in the woods. They were the ones that gunned in down first. The record is clear on that. Miss ferraro mentioned the inflexibility of our position on strategic arms. Yes, we offered first to get rid of all of those, try to reduce the ss18s and those weapons, but if thats not good enough, there is flexibility. Left talk about the mammers and planes. Congresswoman, he that taketh away has to give back. I robbed you of your rebuttal. Therefore, will you have two minutes to rebuttal. Forgive me. You robbed me of my followup. Yes. I will let her go and then do that. Okay. Congresswoman, most polls show americans feel the republicans more than the democrats are better able to keep the u. S. Out of war. Weve had four years of relative peace under president reagan. How can you convince the American Public the world would be a safer place under Carter Mondale . I think, first of all, you have to take a look at the current situation. We now have 50,000 nuclear warheads. We have we are building at the rate of five or six a day between us and have been doing that since this administration came into office. I think what you can do is look at what theyve done and recognize theyre not going to do very much in the future. Since theyve done nothing, do we continue to build . Because an arms race doesnt lead to anything, it leads to another arms race and thats it. Vice president mondale has indicated that what he would do, first of all, as soon as he gets into office is contact a soviet counterpart and set up an annual summit meeting. Thats number one. I dont think you can start negotiating until you start talking. Secondly, he would issue a challenge. The challenge would be in the nature of temporary mutual verifiab verifiable more torah to halt testing in the air, in the atmosphere that would respond with a challenge from the soviet union, we hope, to sit down and negotiate a treaty. That was done in 1960. I dont know what your lights are doing you have another minute. Im watching them blinking. What that would do is give us an opportunity to sit down and negotiate a treaty. That was done in 1960 by president kennedy. 1963. What he did was issue a challenge to the soviet union. He said we will not test and face in the atmosphere if you will not, they did not and in two months they sat down and negotiated a treaty. We do not now have to worry about that type of testing. It can be done. It will be done if only you have the will to do it. Again, remember it is mutual, it is verifiable and it is a challenge that once that challenge is not met, if testing were to resume, then we would continue testing as well. Our last series of questions on Foreign Affairs from mr. Boyd. Congresswoman ferraro, you had little or no military experience in foreign affair matters and yet you spld might find yourself the commander in chief of arms forces. How can you convince your enemies you would know what to do to protect the americans and would you know if the soviets tried to take advantage of you simply because you are a woman . Are you saying i would have have fought in a war in order to love peace . Im not saying that. Im asking you you know what i asked. All right. I think what happens is when you try to equate whether or not ive had military experience, thats the natural conclusion. Its about as valid as saying you would have to be black to despise racism, you would have to be female to be terribly offended by sexism. Thats just not so. I think if you take a look at where ive been, both in the congress and where i intend to go, the type of person i am, i think the people of this country can rely upon the fact that i will be a leader. I dont think the soviet union for one minute can sit down and make a determination on what i will do if im ever in a position to have to do something with reference to the soviet union. Quite frankly, im prepared to do whatever is necessary in order to secure this country and make sure that security is maintained. Secondly, if the soviet union were to ever believe they can challenge the United States with any sort of Nuclear Forces or otherwise, if i were in a position of leadership in this country, they would be assured that they would be met with swift, concise and certain retaliation. Let me just say one other thing. The most important thing as a leader, one has to do is get to a point where youre not put into that position. The way you get to that position of moving away from having to make a decision on force or anything else is by moving towards arms control. And thats not whats been done over the past four years. I think if you would take a look at the failures of this administration, that would have to be number one. I will not put myself in that position as a leader of this country. I will move immediately towards arms control negotiations. For my follow, im going to borrow a leaf from the sunday night debate between your principals and ask you what is the single question you would most like to ask your opponent here on Foreign Policy. Oh, i dont have a single most question. I guess the concern i have is a concern not only as a Vice President ial candidate but as a citizen in this country, my concern is were not doing anything to stop the arms race. It seems to me if he wiwe keep talking about military inforeyorty, which we do not have, we are at a incomparable level with the soviet union, our joint chiefs of staff said they would Never Exchange our military power for theirs, i guess the thing i would want is a commitment that pretty soon theyre going to do something about making this a safer world for all of us. Vice president bush, four years ago president reagan insisted a military buildup would bring the soviets to negotiate seriously. Since then we spent almost a trillion dollars on defense but the soviets are still building their military forces as rapidly as we are and there are no negotiations. Was the president s original premise, his whole strategy wrong . No. I think his strategy not only was correct but is correct 6789 youve got to go back where we are. Clearly when we came into office, the American People recognized that we had slipped into positions of inferiority on various things. Some of our planes, as the president points out, were older than the pilot. Ships that couldnt go out to sea. You had a major problem with the military. Actually the morale wasnt very good either. So we have had to strengthen the military and were well on the way to getting that job done. America is back in terms of military strength and in terms of our ability to deter aggression and keep the peace. All at the same time, however, weve made proposals and proposals and proposals, sound proposals on reducing Nuclear Weapons. The strategic arms reduction talks were good proposals and the soviets left the table. The intermediate Nuclear Force talks were sound talks. And i wish the soviet union had continued them. The chemical weapon treaty to ban all chemical weapons, it was our initiative, not the soviets, and we wish they would think anew and move forward to verification so that everybody would know whether the other side was keeping its word. But much more important, you would reduce the level of terror. Similarly were reducing trying to talk to them and are talking to them in vienna about conventional force reductions. We talked to them about human rights. I met with mr. An dropoff and mr. Chenko and we met with them. Suppression of soviet jews is intolerable. We have to keep pushing forward on moral grounds as well as arms reduction grounds. But it is my view that because this president has been strong and because weve addressed the imbalances, and i think were very close to getting that job done, the soviets are more likely to make a deal. The soviets made an abm treaty when they thought we were going to deploy an abm system. So i am optimistic for the future, once they realize they will have to strong, principled president to negotiate with, strong leadership and yet with demonstrable flexibility on arms control. Now i will give you a chance, mr. Vice president , to ask the question you would most like to ask of your opponent. I have none i would like to ask of her but i would sure like to use the time, to talk about the world series or something of that nature. Let me put it this way, i dont have any questions. Were so different from the the Reagan Bush Administration is so different from Carter Mondale. Where we came in, 21 1 2 Interest Rates, inflation, despair, malaise, no leadership. Blaming the American People for failed leadership or another option, keep this recovery going until it benefits absolutely everybody. Peace at home. Peace abroad. Prosperity. Opportunity. I would like to hear her talk on those things but i think the yellow light is flashing so we will leave it there. Nothing on the world series . Well congresswoman ferraro . I think the Vice President s comment about the Carter Mondale administration is an indication just really typifies this administration. Its an administration that looks backwards and not forwards into the future. I must say im also tickled by their comments on human rights. The souft union in 1959 allowed 51,000 people to immigrate due in large measure to this administrations policies over the past four years, 1,333 people got out of the soviet upen in 1984. Thats not a great record on human rights or human rights achievement. This Administration Spent a trillion dollars on defense but has not gotten a trillion dollars of national security. Vice president bush, your rebuttal . No rebuttal. We then can go to the closing statements. Each statement will be four minutes in length and we will begin with the Vice President. In a couple of weeks, you, the American People, will be faced three weeks, with a choice. Its the clearest choice in some 50 years. The choice is do we move forward with strength and prosperity, or do we go back to weakness, despair, disrespect . Ronald reagan and i have put our trust in the American People. Weve moved some of the power away from washington, d. C. And put it back with the people. Were pulling together. The neighborhoods are safer because crime is going down. Your sons and daughters are doing better in school. Test scores are going up. Theres a new opportunity lying out there in the future. Science, technology and space offering opportunity to everybody, all of the young ones coming up. Abroad theres new leadership and respect. And Ronald Reagan has clearly been the strong leader of the free world. And i will be honest with you, its a joy to serve with a president who does not apologize for the United States of america. Mr. Mondale, on the other hand, has one idea, go out and tax the American People. Then he wants to repeal indexing to wipe out the one protection that those at the lowest end of the economic scale have protecting them against being rammed into higher and higher tax bracket. We just owe our country too much to go back to that kind of an approach. I would like to Say Something to the young people. I started a business. I know what it is to have a dream and have a job and work hard to employ others and really to participate in the american dream. Some of you out there are finishing high school and college. Some of you are starting out in the working place. We want for you, americas greatest gift, and that is opportunity. And then in peace, yes, i did serve in combat. I was shot down when i was a young kid, scared to death. All that did, saw friends die. But that heightened my convictions about peace. It is absolutely essential that we guarantee the young people that they will not know the agony of war. Americas gift, opportunity and peace. Now we do have unfinished business. We must continue to go ahead. The world is too complex to go back to vacillation and weakness. We have too much going on to go back to the failed policies of the past. The future is too bright not to give it our best shot. Together we can go forward and lift america up to meet her greatest dreams. Thank you very much. [applause] thank you very much. I must say now in matters of equity, you will be alaud applause at the end of your opening statement. If you will begin now, please. I hope somebody wants to applaud. Being the candidate for Vice President in my party is the greatest honor i have ever had but its not only a personal achievement for Geraldine Ferraro and certainly not only the bond as i feel as i go across this country with women throughout the country, i wouldnt be standing here if mondale didnt have the courage to stand for the values it does, the values of fairness and equal opportunity. Those values make our country strong and the future of this country and how strong it will be is what this election is all about. Over the last two months, i have been traveling all over the country talking to the people about the future. I was in kentucky and i spoke to a family, he works for a car dealer. He is worried about the deficits and and how high Interest Rates will affect his job. Every place i go i see young parents and children, what are we going to do to stop this Nuclear Arms Race . I was in dayton, ohio, a week and a half ago and i sat with the allen family, who lived next door to i toxic dump. Theyre very, very concerned about the fact those toxics are seeping into the water they and those neighbors drink. These people love this country and are patriotic. Thats not the patriotism you see in the commercials these days. Their pratriotism is not only pride in this country as it is but proud enough to meet the challenges of the future. You know when we find job for the more than 8. 5 million unemployed in this country, we will make our economy stronger and that will be an patriotic act. When we reduce the deficit, we country Interest Rates i know the president doesnt believe it, but its so, you cut Interest Rates and young people can buy houses, thats pro family and that will be a patriotic act. We educate our children, theyre going to be able to compete in a World Economy and that makes us stronger and thats a patriotic act. When we stop the arms race, we make this a safer, saner world and thats a patriotic act. And when we keep the peace, young men dont die, and thats a patriotic act. Those are the keys to the future. And who can be the leader for the future. When Walter Mondale was attorney general of minnesota, he laid the fight for a man who could not afford to get justice because he couldnt afford a lawyer. When he was in the sflat, he fought for child nutrition programs, wrote the fair housing act. He even investigated the concerns and abuses of migrant workers. Why did he do that . Those werent popular causes. No one had ever heard of clarence gideon, the man without a lawyer. Children dont vote. Migrant workers are not exactly a powerful lobby in this country. But he did it because it was right. Fritz mondale has said he would rather lose a battle over decency than win one over selfinterest. And i agree with him. This campaign is not over. For our country, for our future, for the principles we believe in, water mondale and i have just begun to fight. [applause] thank you very much. I would like to thank Vice President bush, congresswoman ferraro, the members of our panel for joining us in this league of women voters debate. I would like to join you in thanking them, the city of philadelphia, and the league. Week nights this month on American History tv, were looking at past president ial debates. Tonight we look at the president ial debates of 1976 between incumbent president gerald ford and former georgia governor jimmy carter, which was the First Time Since 1960 the major nominees participated in debates. The first debate was on domestic issues. The second focused on Foreign Policy and defense issues, including u. S. soviet relations and credibility of the u. S. In the wake of vietnam and watergate. Watch tonight starting at 8 00 p. M. Eastern and enjoy American History tv this week and every weekend on