And retired vide admiral james stockdale, who is a Vice President ial nominee law for independent candidate ross perot. [applause] now the ground rules for tonights debate, each candidate will have two minutes for an opening statement. I will then present the issues to be discussed. For each topic, the candidates will have a minute and 15 seconds to respond. This will be followed by a five minute discussion period, in which they can ask questions of each other if they so choose. Now, leo theyre up, responses to be determined by a draw. And we will rotate with each topic. At the end of the debate, each candidate will have two minutes for a closing statement. Already our tv audience should know that the candidates were giving given equal allocations for his supporters. So i would like to ask the audience, here in the theater, to please refrain from applause or any parties and demonstration once the debate is underway, because it takes time away from the candidates. So with that plea from your moderator, lets get started. We will turn, first, two senator gore for his opening statement. Good evening, it is great to be here in atlanta, for this debate. Where america will be showcased to the world, where the 1996 olympics are put on right here. It is appropriate, because in a real sense, our discussion this evening, will be about what kind of nation we want to be four years from now. Its also a pleasure to be with my two opponents, this evening, admiral Stockdale Max 8s an honor to share the stage with you. Those of us who served in vietnam look to you as a national hero, even before you were awarded the congressional medal of honor. And mr. Vice president , dan, if i may, it was 16 years ago that you and i went to congress on the very first day, together. Ill make you a deal this evening. If you dont try to compare george bush to harry truman, i wont compare it to jack kennedy. [laughs] remember the last time someone can bring themselves to jack kennedy . Remember what they said . Harry truman is worth remembering. Assuming the presidency when Franklin Roosevelt died, here in georgia. Only one of many occasions when faith thrust a Vice President into the oval office, in a time of crisis. Its something to think about during the debate, this evening. But our real discussion is going to be about to change. Bill clinton and i stand for change, because we dont believe our nation can stand four more years of what weve had under george bush and dan quayle. When the recession came they were like a deer caught in headlights. Finalized and inaction. Blinded in the suffering of the campaign in bankruptcies and people who are unemployed. We have an environmental crisis, a Health Insurance crisis, substandard education. It is time for a change. Bill clinton and i want to give our country moving forward again. Put our people back to work. And create a Bright Future for the United States of america. Thank you. Okay, the next statement will be from Vice President quayle. Well thank you for reminding the nine president ial performance, in the debate in 1980. Eight bill clinton is running against president george bush. There are two things that im gonna stress during this debate. One, bill clintons economic plan, and his agenda, will make matters much much worse. He will raise your taxes, he will increase spending, he will make government bigger, jobs will be lost. Second, bill clinton does not have strength nor the character to be president of the United States. Let us look at the agendas, president bush wants to hold the line on taxes. Bill clinton wants to raise taxes. For a balanced budget, bill clinton is opposed. We want to be formal legal system because it is costly. Bill clinton wants a status quo. We want to reform the Health Care System, bill clinton wants to ration health care. We want to empower people, bill clinton wants to empower government. June of this year, june of this year america is democracy of the world. He is wrong. Sometime during these next four years there will be a crisis. There will be an International Crisis, i can tell you where it will be. I cant even tell you the circumstances but it will happen. The integrity in qualifications to handle the crisis. The president has been tested, the president has the integrity and the character. The choice is yours. You need to have a president , that you can trust. Can you really trust bill clinton . Admiral stockdale, your opening statement. Who am i . Why am i here . [applause] im not a politician, everyone knows that. Dont expect me to use the language of the washington insider. 37 years in the navy and only one of them in washington. Now, i am an academic. The centerpiece in my life was a vietnam war. I was there that it started, i led the first bombing raid against northam. I was there the day it ended and i was there for everything in between. Ten years in vietnam, Aerial Combat and torture. I know things about the vietnam war better than anybody in the world. I know some things about the vietnam war better than anybody in the vietnam war, and i know how government and how american governments can be courageous and have a can be coward. That is important. That is one thing im an insider on. I was the leader of the underground of the american pilots, who were shot down in a prison in north vietnam. You should know that the american character displayed in those dungeons by those fine man was a thing of beauty. I look back on those years as the beginning of wisdom. Learning everything a man can learn about the vulnerabilities and the strengths that are hours as americans. Why am i here tonight . Im here because i have in my brain and in my heart related takes to eat america through tough times. Thank you admiral. Since you are running for Vice President , we need to start off by talking about the vice presidency itself. The Vice President presides over the senate, he cast a deciding vote in case of a tie. His role depends on the assignments that are given by the president. However, if a president should die in office or is unable to surf or any other reason. A Vice President automatically becomes president and that has happened five times in the century. The proposition i put on the table for you to discuss is this. What role would each of you like to play as Vice President , what area of interest to and what are your qualifications to serve as president if necessary . In the case of Vice President quail who we are starting with. You tell us the role you did play in the first term. Modulator the second term . I wont give you that answer. Qualifications. I have been there. Ive done the job, ive been tested, ive been Vice President for four years. Senator gore refer to us being elected to the congress together in 1976. Ive done the job, ive done many things for the president. Even as Vice President , you never know exactly what your role is going to be from time to time. Let me give you an example of where i was tested under fire in a crisis. President bush was flying tumult in 1989 to meet with president gorbachev. It was the first meeting between president bush and gorbachev. They have known each other before. A coup broke out in the philippines. I had to go to the situation room. I had to assemble the president s advisers. I talk to president akinjo, made the recommendation to the president. The president made the decision, coops suppressed, the situation was ended. I have been there, and another thing that qualifies you to be president. It is a. You need to stand up for what you believe in. Nobody has ever criticize me for not having strong beliefs. [applause] admiral scott still . My association with mr. Parole is a personal one. As i stood in and took his position, he has granted me total autonomy. I dont take advantage of it but i am sure that he would make me a partner in decisions in making decisions about the way to handle health care, the way to get this account to me back on its feet in every way. I have not had the experience of these gentlemen. To be any more specific, i know i have his trust. And then to act in a way to keep that situation alive. Thank you. Senator gore . Bill clinton understands the meaning of the words teamwork and partnership. If we are successful in our efforts to gain your trust and lead this nation, we will Work Together to put our country back on the right track again. The experience to george bush and dan quayle have been talking about. Includes the worst Economic Performance since the Great Depression. Unemployment is up personal income is down, bankruptcy theyre up. Housing stocks are down. How long can we continue with trickle down economics, when the record of failure it is so abundantly clear. Discussions of the vice presidency attend sometimes to focus on the crisis during which, if Vice President is thrust into the oval office. Indeed, one third of the Vice President s who have served, have been moved into the white house. The teamwork and partnership beforehand, and hopefully that situation never happened, how you Work Together is critically important. The way we Work Together in this campaign is one sample. I would like to say in response to Vice President quayle he. Talked about multi in the philippines. George bush has concentrate on every other country in the world. When will you guys worry about our people, here in the United States of america and get our country moving again . [applause] i will ask the audience, please do not applaud. It takes time from the candidates. We have five minutes for discussion. Go ahead Vice President quayle. We will not raise taxes to create new jobs. We have a plan to create new jobs. The question dealt with qualifications. Teamwork and Partnership May be fine in the congress, senator gore. That is what congress is about. Compromised, teamwork, working things out. When you are president of the United States, when you are Vice President , you have to feel and like i did the night of the crisis in the philippines. You need to make the decision, make up your mind. Bill clinton running for president of the United States said this about the persian golf for. He said, i have been in the senate i would have voted with majority. He was a close vote. But i agreed with the arguments of the minority. You cannot have it both ways. You have to make a decision. You cannot get there in an International Crisis and sit there to say on one hand this is okay, on the other hand this is okay. You need to make the decision. President bush has made the decision, he has been tested, he has the experience, a qualification, the integrity to be our president for the next four years. Admiral stockdale, its your turn. Then senator gore has his chance. I thought this was an open session. I did not have anything to add to his. Whatever pleases you, is finished me. I want admiral stockdales time. This is not a sanitary good tradeoff time. I have some point i want to make here, and i still havent gotten an answer to my question. When will you guys worry about this country. I want to elaborate before. Why doesnt the democrat i was very patient in letting you get off that string of attacks. We have been listening trickle down economics for 12 years now. You all still support to go down to the last drop. And you know, talking about this point of concentrating on every other country in the world, as opposed to the people of our country, right here at home. When george bush took former secretary of state baker out of the state department, and put him in charge of the campaign, and made him chief of staff in the white house. Mr. Baker, whos quite a capable man, said that for these last four years george bush was working on the problems of the rest of the world, and in the next four years, he would target america. Well i want you to know we really appreciate that. But bill clinton and i will target america from day one. We wont wait for years before we concentrate on the problems in this country. He went on to say its really amazing with george bush can do when he concentrates. Well its time that we had a president like bill clinton, who can concentrate and will concentrate and work on the problems of real people in this country. You know, our country is in trouble. And we are simply we simply cannot continue with his philosophy of giving huge tax cuts to the very wealthy, raising taxes on middle income families, the way bush and quayle have done, and then waiting for it to work. How much longer will it take, dan, for trickle down economics to work, in your theory . Well, were gonna have plenty of time to talk about trickle down government. Well id like your answer to the question. The question is, and what you have failed to address, and that is why is bill clinton qualified to be president of the United States . You talked about jim baker, and you talked about trickle down economics, youve talked about the worst economy in 50 years. You have told us one reason line. [inaudible] well be happy to answer. I wanna go back in make a point. You asked me you asked me a question let me answer. I will answer. Question i have not asked a question, ive made a statement that you have not told us why big clinton is qualified to be president of the United States. I pointed out, what he said about the persian gulf before. Let me repeat it for you. Heres what he said, senator. And you know full well what he said. Do you mommy to answer your question . Im making a statement, then you can. Answer [inaudible] heres what he said. This is the persian gulf war. The most important event in his political lifetime, and heres what bill clinton says. If its a close vote i vote with a majority. Lets give him a chance to come in. That qualifies you for being president of the United States . I hope america is listening very closely to this debate, tonight. And i think america has seen right now the reason this nation isnt great. Oh my gosh i love the trickle down, and it we can get this economy going. Over here we have dan who is a president that is going to take eight years to balance the budget. And on my left, the senator, who is gonna get this halfway balanced in four years. Ross perot has a plan to balance the budget five years in length, from start to finish. And where people of the non professional category, who are just sick of this terrible thing thats happened to the country. And weve got a man who knows how to fix it. And im working for him. I was a little bit worried that there might not be a free following discussion tonight. Come lets move on to the economy. Specifically, the economy was talked about at great length the other night, at the president ial debate. Lets talk about a very particular aspect to the economy, and that is getting people back to work. So the average person, the great theory is losing his or her job. In Many Americans have lost jobs in this recession. Its also means a loss of benefit, loss of homes, and the structure of the family security. Specifically, how would your administration and go about getting people back to work, and how long is it going to take . And we start with admiral stockdale. The lifeblood of our economy is investment. And right now when we pay 350 when we borrow 350 billion dollars a year, it snaps the money, the markets, and the private investors are not getting their share. What we do is work on that budget why an aggressive program, not a painful program. So that we can start borrowing less money, and getting more investment money on the street through entrepreneurs, who can build factories and hire people. And maybe will start manufacturing goods here in this country again. Thats land sir. Okay senator gore . Bill clintons Top Priorities putting america back to work. Bill clinton and i will create good high wage jobs for our people. The same way he has done in his state. Bill clinton has created high wage manufacturing jobs at ten times the national average. And in fact, according to the statistics coming from the bush quayle labor department, for the last two years in a row, bill clinton state has been number one among all 50 in the creation of jobs in the private sector. By contrast, in the nation as a whole, during the last four years, it is the First Time Since the presidency of hoover that we have gone for a fouryear period with fewer jobs at the end of that fouryear period then we had at the beginning. And look at manufacturing. We have lost 1. 4 million jobs in manufacturing, under george bush and dan quayle. They have even, we learned two weeks ago, taken our tax dollars and subsidized the moving of u. S. Factories to foreign countries. Now, dont deny it, because 60 minutes in night live in the nations newspapers have investigated this very carefully. When are you going to stop using our tax dollars to shoved down american factories, and move them to foreign countries, and throw americans out of word . Vice president quayle . I senator gore you always have to see what you see in television. Let me tell you, the media have been wrong. We have never subsidized any new company to move from the United States to latin america. You know full well the caribbean base initiating, you feel supported that, that is a program there. I vote against. It you voted for. No. Okay, well have a lot of interesting debate after this debate. Our people will be glad to furnished to the press, if theyre interested, and senator gore voting record on the caribbean initiative. But lets keep talking you keep talking about the trickle down economics, and all this stuff, the worst economies since hoover, it is a bad economy. Its a tough economy. The question is, its not what youre gonna blame, its what youre gonna do about it . Your proposal is to raise 150 billion dollars in taxes. To raise 220 billion dollars in new spending. Now. How is raising taxes going to help Small Businesses . How is raising taxes gonna help the farmer . How is raising taxes gonna help the consumer of america . I submit to you that raising taxes will make matters much much worse. Were now throwing open for discussion, but admiral stockdale its your turn to start the discussion. Well weve got to clean out the bar in, if i may hold my boss. And start getting this investment money on the street, so we canini wrote ross perots plan concentrates almost exclusively on balancing the budget, and reducing the budget deficit. And the danger is, if that is the only goal, it could throw a nation back into an even worse recession. We have a five detailed plan to create good jobs, cut a budget in half, and eliminate the investment deficit in order to get our economy moving forward again. We have a 20 billion Dollar Infrastructure Fund to create a nationwide network with high speed rail, for example. And critical information super highways to open up a whole universe for young people, and to help our universities and companies that rely on a new advances in the information revolution. We also have tax incentives for investment in job creating activities. Not the kind of encouragement for a short term rip off, like the proposal that we have had, from george bush. But i want to return, and say one more time, you have used our tax dollars to subsidize the recruitment of u. S. Companies to move overseas and throw americans out of work. And take cater to the sleeve, not very far from my home. A factory was shut down right there, when they were solicited by officials paid with u. S. Taxpayers money. And then the replacement workers in a foreign country who are trained with our tax dollars, and then there imports were subsidized coming back into the United States. We do not have any program that encourages companies to close down here and investment form, that is absolutely outrageous. Of course american businesses have a global competition. We want businesses to expand, do you realize the senator . Every job overseas never have we ever nor would we support the idea of some a closing a factory here and moving overseas. That is ridiculous. It happened in tennessee. When george bush went to nashville, the employees that lost their jobs asked to meet him. I talked with them. Let me tell you what they are feeling. Some of them are in their fifties and sixties, they want to know where they will get new jobs when their jobs have been destroyed. Theyre 1. 4 Million Manufacturing jobs lost because of the policies of you and george bush. Do you seriously believe that we ought to continue the same policies that have created the worst economy since the Great Depression . I hope that when you talked to those people you said and the first thing that bill clinton and i are going to do is to raise 150 billion in new taxes. You got that wrong, too. And the first that is part of your plan. No, its not. A hundred and fifty billion dollars in new taxes. Well, youre going to disavow your plan. Listen, what were proposing you know what youre doing, you know what youre doing . Youre pulling a clinton. And you know what clinton is . A clinton is, is what he says he says one thing one day and another thing the next day you try to have both sides of the issues. The fact of the matter is that you are proposing 150 billion in new taxes. No. And i hope that you talk to the people in tennessee no, were not. And told them that how we will reform the Health Care System, like the president wants to do. Every american will have available affordable Health Insurance. That is legal reform. Your position on legal reform of the status quo. You talk about foreign competition. Why should an American Company n spend 50 to 20 times on Product Liability costs in the comfy in japan or germany, or somewhere else. That is not right. We have Product Liability on capitol hill and the Congress Wont pass it. Okay. I think its time to move on to our next topic. All 3 of you gentlemen have some expertise in defense and the armed forces. Vice president quayle and senator gore both served on the Senate Armed Services committee. Admiral stockdale, of course, has a very distinguished military career. With the end of the cold war, everyone agrees that there are going to be major cuts. Theyve already started in the Defense Budget. But this country has a long history of neglecting its military needs in peace time and then paying for it with heavy casualties when were caught unprepared. How much of a defense cut is safe . What happens to the people who are forced to leave the military services, or if they lose their jobs because theyre working in defense industries. I think we start with senator gore this time. Al gore jr. Bill clinton and i support a Strong National defense. He and i have both fought for change within the Democratic Party as well as within the country. In the aftermath of the cold war, the definition of Strong National defense has obviously changed somewhat. For example, george bush wants to maintain at least 150,000 american soldiers in europe, even though world war ii ended 50 years ago. Bill clinton and i agree with so many military experts who believe that it is time for the europeans, who are so much wealthier now and more powerful than they were at the end of world war ii to start picking up a little more of that tab themselves and not rely so exclusively on the us taxpayers for the defense of europe. We believe that we can make savings in our Defense Budget and at the same time, improve our national security. Now, for those who are affected by the cutbacks, whether they come from george bush or bill clinton and me the difference is, bill clinton and i have a defense Conversion Program so that those who won the cold war will not be left out in the cold. We want to put them to work building an infrastructure and an economy here in this country for the90s and the next century. Vice president quayle. We won the cold war because we invested in national security. We won the cold war because we invested in our military. We didnt win the cold we won the cold war because we invested in national security. We won the cold war because we invested in our military. We didnt win the cold or we won the cold war because america had the political will and made the right decisions. Yes, we can make the cuts in defense and we have. Bill clinton wants to cut defense another 60 billion. Id say to the defense workers in california and elsewhere, a 60 billion defense cut is going to cut a lot of jobs out. Yes, we are making a conversion and we can go to a civil space rather than having defense or the defense industry. Well, let me say this we would not have won the cold war if we had listened to senator gore and his crowd, and had supported a nuclear freeze. If you would have supported that attitude if you would have supported that attitude, we would not have won the cold war. We won the cold war because we invested and we went forward. applause. mr. Admiral stockdale, please. Yes, thanks. The numbers, in terms of the dollar cuts, as they stand on our plans now, show us almost the same as the Vice President s. But wed note that mr. Governor clintons plan is almost twice as much a cut as either one of us. Ive been through the end of world war ii, and the surprise beginning of korea, to see how we it cost us more money because we overcut the Defense Budget in the first place. I dont say that applause. so i think that should be eyed with great suspicion, people that are really kicking the props out from under our grand military establishment prematurely. Now theres other differences between the perot approach and what we see up here on either side of me, and that has to do with we want to focus our interests, economic and military, more to the pacific. We figure that we are generally going along with any sort of a troop removal from europe. So thats still another face of this puzzle. Senator gore, would you like to start the discussion period on this topic . Yeah, id like to respond first to you, admiral stockdale. Under the details of our 5year budget plan, we do propose more in defense cuts than george bush and dan quayle, but only 5 more. Admiral crowe, who i think was one of your classmates in annapolis oh, yes, ive known him has endorsed 50 years. the military portions of our plan, even though he was the chairman of the joint chiefs under george bush, and john white has endorsed the economic aspects of our plan, even though i believe he was the architect of ross perots economic plan. Now when i heard george bush say at the convention in houston, that when he heard the phrase we won the cold war, it made him wonder who the we was. Well, i want to tell you, president bush, the we is the people of the us of america. This wasnt a partisan victory that came suddenly, a few months after you took the oath of office. This started with harry truman and it was a bipartisan effort from the very beginning. George bush taking credit for the berlin wall coming down is like the rooster taking credit for the sunrise. applause. and i want to, i want to add i want to add one other thing, because in the debate a few nights ago, i think president bush made a very serious misstatement of fact in response to ross perot. It was kind of a little lecture he gave to ross perot when he said those ss18s are gone, ross, thats done. He he reached a deal with Boris Yeltsin to completely remove them so we can all sleep safely without any fear tonight. But you know what . They thought they were going to get that deal, but when he took the person in charge of the negotiations out of the state dept and put him in charge of the reelection campaign, the deal unraveled and now there is no start ii deal at all. In fact there are serious problems. Isnt it a fact, dan, that every single one of those ss18s is still there, in the silos, and under the start i treaty, only half of the silos are supposed to be dismantled, and there is no deal to get rid of the other half . Didnt the president make a mistake there . N Vice President quayle, please. The president does have a commitment from Boris Yeltsin to eliminate the ss18s. That is a commitment to al gore jr. Is it an agreement . It is a commitment. Al gore jr. Oh. laughter lets talk about, lets talk about al gore jr. Well, he said hed let him talk, senator. Lighten up here, al. laughter and applause go ahead. Lets talk about getting agreements. You know, the president of the us doesnt just negotiate with your friends in congress; the president of the us deals on the international scene. Hes got to deal with the does not tell the truth about it. You have to deal the host of leaders around the world. The leader sit down and negotiate, they will come to agreements with people that they trust. This is a fundamental problem with bill clinton. Trust and character. It is not the issue of how he avoided military service 20 something years ago. It is the fact that he does not tell the truth about it. He first said he did not get an induction noticed, and they find out that he did. You said it didnt have an rotc sought, then he did. Then we find out that he did. These are inconsistency. Bill clinton has trouble telling the truth. He will have a very difficult time dealing with somebody like president deals or chancellor coal. Or Prime Minister major. Truth and integrity are prerequisites for being president of the United States. I want to respond to that. George bush, in case you have forgotten, said read my lips. Let me finish. He also said he wanted to be the environmental president. He went on to say he wanted to be the education president. Then, he said he wouldnt raise taxes again. Never. The next day, his spokesman murrow learns bits water said that is not a pledge. Two weeks ago he said that after the election, if you win then james pecker will go back to the secretary of state. A week later in the debate a few nights ago, he said no after the election when we win. James baker will be in charge of domestic policy. Which is . It will he . What is zero . We will have to move on to another topic. I am sorry Vice President. You will get plenty chance to respond. We ran at a time according to the agreement. It is time to move on. I wanna stick to it. You will have a chance. I can see what is happening here. We throughout the topic and then we drift. That is okay. It is making for a healthy exchange. The only thing i would ask of you gentlemen it when we get the discussion period, weber talks first, be conspirator of the others. You have a tendency to filibuster. Im not pointing fingers. Lets talk about the environment. Get away from controversy. Everyone wants a safe and clean environment. There is an ongoing conflict between Environmental Protection and the need for economic growth. The point at their one on the table, how you resolve this conflict between protection of the environment and growth in jobs . Why has it taken so long to deal with basic problems such as toxic waste dumps, clean air, and clean water . Vice president quayle, its your turn. You dont have to have a choice between environment and jobs ignoble. President. Record clean air legislation passed the democratic congress, because of the leadership of george bush. It is the most comprehensive Clean Air Act in our history. We are firmly behind preserving our environment and we have a good record with which to stand. The question comes about, what will be their position when it comes to the environment . I say it is a false choice. You have to ask somebody in michigan, if they think of increasing the cafe standards at 45 miles a gallon is a good idea at the hundred thousand people out of work. Talk to the temper people in the northwest, where they say they forget about jobs. Talk to the coal miners a cool tax attacks on utility, gas he, doing home heating oil. All sorts of taxes. No choices of the environment and jobs with the right policy. Proven policies we can have both. Admiral stopped . Oh i read senator gores book about the environment, and i do not see how he could pay for his proposals in todays economic climate. The plan of environment and so forth. I am told by some experts that the things that he fears most may not be of a dangerous, according to some scientists. You can overdo environmental cleaning up a few purifiers upon, the water lilies die. I love this planet and i wanted to stay here, but i dont like to have it private property a fanatics i want to overdo the sling. Senator gore . Bill clinton and i believe we can create millions of new jobs by leading the environmental revolution, instead of dragging our feet and bringing up the rear. In japan and germany are both openly proclaiming to the world that the biggest new market in the history of World Business is the market for the new products and technologies that foster economic progress without environmental destruction. Why is the Japanese Business organization the largest one they had. Arguing for tougher Environmental Standards than those embodied in u. S. Law. Why is meaty their trade organization calling on all japanese organizations to exceed as much as possible the Environmental Standards of every country they are operating. Maybe they are dumb about business competition. Maybe they know something that george bush and dan quayle dont know. The future will call for greater efficiency and greater environmental efficiency. This is an issue that touches my basic values. I am taught in my religion that we are given dominion over the earth but we required to be good stewards of the earth. That means to take care of it. We are not doing that now under the bush quayle policies. They have gutted the Clean Air Act, broken his plans to be the environmental president. Bill clinton and i will change. Discussion period now. Leave time for each other. Vice president s quayle go ahead . And tempted to yield to admiral stockdale for the. The fact of the matter is, one of the proposals that senator gore has suggested is to have the taxpayers of america spend 100 billion dollars a year on environmental projects in foreign countries. If in your book. On page 304. It is there. It is in your book. I wanted to bring the gore book tonight, because i figured he would pull of bill clinton on me. He has. He will disavow what is in his book. It comes out to 100 billion dollars of foreign aid for environmental projects. How will we pay for it . An extra hundred billion dollars of taxpayer money for this. I appreciate you reading my, book very much. You have a wrong. I have a. Right there is no such proposal. Especially, let the senator talk. There is no such proposal. What i call upon is a cooperative effort by the United States in europe in asia to Work Together in opening up new markets throughout the world for the new technologies that are necessary, in order to reconcile the imperatives of economic progress with the imperatives of Environmental Protection. Take mexico city for example, they are shutting down factories right now. Not because of their economy, that because they are choking to death on the air pollution. They are banning automobiles some days of the week. What they want is not new laser guided missile system. What they want our new engines, new factories, new products that dont pollute the air and the water. Nevertheless, allow them to have a decent standard of living for their people. Lasted 35 of our experts went to developing countries. Countries where the population is expanding worldwide by as much as one billion people, every ten years. We cannot stick our heads in the sand and pretend that we dont face a Global Environmental crisis. Nor should we assume that it is causing jobs. We are going to be able to create jobs as japan and germany are planning to do right now. If we have the guts to lead. We heard about the auto and timber industry. There have been 250,000 jobs lost in the Automobile Industry during the reagan bush quayle years. There have been tens of thousands of jobs landed timber industry. They like to point the finger of blame with one hand and hand out pink slips with the other hand they have done a poor job with the economy and the environment. It is time for a change. Admiral stockdale . I senator gores mentor had disagreed with the Scientific Data that is in this book. How do you respond to those criticisms of that sort . Do you take this into account . Let me respond, thank you admiral for saying that. You are talking about roger rebel. His family wrote a letter saying how terribly he had been misquoted and had his remarks taken out of context just before he died. He believed up until the day he died and just before he died he coauthored an article which was taken out of context. In fact, the vast majority of the world scientists. They have worked on this extensively, believe we must have an effort to face up to the problems we face with the environment. If we just stick our heads in the sand and pretend that it is not real, but we are not doing ourselves a favor. We are telling our children and future generations we were not willing to face up to this obligation, we have a mandate to solve this problem particularly when we can do it. While we create jobs in the process. Go ahead, mr Vice President , theres still time. Not much, though. I know it. Weve got to have a little equal time here now, hal. In the book you also suggest taxes on, gasoline taxes on utilities, taxes on carbon, taxes on timber. Theres a whole host of taxes. And i dont just i dont believe raising taxes is the way to solve our environmental problems. And you talk about the bad situation in the Auto Industry. You seem to say that the answer is, well, ill just make it that much worse by increasing the cafe standards. Yes, the Auto Industry is hurting, its been hurting for a long time, and increasing the cafe standards to 45 miles per gallon, like you and bill clinton are suggesting, will put, as i said, 300,000 people out of work. Okay, lets move on now. I would like to remind the audience of one thing. Trying to stop you from applauding may be a lost cause. I didnt say anything about hissing, but i do think it is discourteous, and theres no call for that, and it reflects badly on the candidate youre supporting. So lets knock that off. Lets go on to health care. Health care protection has become a necessity of life in our society, yet millions of americans are not ensured and the cost of medical treatment is practically out of control. How do you propose to control these costs and how are you going to provide access to health care for every american . Lets see, whose turn is it to go now . I think its admiral stockdales. I think its admiral stockdales turn to go first. Go ahead, sir. Well, we have excellent Technical Health care, but we dont administer it very well, and the escalating costs top any other budget danger in the on the horizon, i think. And what mr perot has suggested is that we try to reto look at the incentives, the incentives that are in our current way of doing business, are what are killing us. Theres theres no incentive for a hypochondriac not to go to the to medicare every day. There is no incentive for a doctor to curtail the expensive tests because hes under threat of malpractice lawyers. And so we we just have a web of wrongway incentives that has to be changed by some people who are in the medical profession and some other crafty people who know how to write contracts to change incentives or get get the the incentives situation under control. Senator gore. Al gore jr. Bill clinton and i believe that if a criminal has the right to a lawyer, every American Family ought to have the right to see a doctor of their own choosing when they need to see a doctor. There are almost 40 million americans who work full time today and yet have no Health Insurance whatsoever. We are proposing to change that, not with a governmentrun plan, not with new taxes, but with a new approach called managed competition. We are going to provide a standard Health Insurance package provided by private Insurance Companies and eliminate the duplication and red tape, and overlap, and were going to have cost controls to eliminate the unnecessary procedures that are costing so much money today. There was a Bipartisan Commission evenly divided between republicans and democrats who looked at our plan and the bushquayle proposal. They said ours will save tens of billions of dollars and cover every american. The bush proposal, by contrast, will cost us tens of billions and still leave americans uninsured. But what i want to know is, why has george bush waited for 3 and a half years during this Health Insurance crisis before finally coming out with a proposal, just before the election, and he still hasnt introduced it in congress. Why the long wait, dan . Mr Vice President. Hal, president bush has had his Health Care Reform agenda on capitol hill for 8 months. Hes had parts of it up there for years. You talk about increasing costs that the president has had on capitol hillmedical malpractice reform legislation for several years. Defensive medicine and health care today cost 20. 7 billion. Defense medicine defined as testing and treatment that is only necessary in case of a law suit. Wouldnt that be nice to take 20. 7 billion that were putting into our legal system and put it to Preventive Health care or Womens Health care or Something Else besides trial lawyers . But no you dont want to reform the Health Care System to drive down costs through medical malpractice. What youre doing you are talking about a government program. Your program is to ration health care. You said in your statement to see a doctor when you want to see a doctor. When you start rationing health care theres going to be a waiting line to see a doctor unless its an emergency. Remember when we rationed energy in this country . Waiting lines at the gasoline stations. The same thing would happen when you ration health care. The president s proposal deals with tax credits, deductions and purchasing health care in the private sector and making Health Care Affordable and available to every single american. Admiral stockdale, would you like to start the discussion period . Well, im out of ammunition on this well, let me talk then because ive got a couple of things that i want to say. Go ahead, senator. We still didnt get an answer to the question of why george bush waited for 3 and a half years he didnt wait 3 and a half years. During the national i did answer the question. Health insurance crisis before he even made a proposal. And it still hasnt been submitted to congress in the form of legislation. I also want to respond to the question about malpractice. Do you know which state has the lowest malpractice premiums in the entire country . Bill clintons arkansas does partly because he has passed reform measures limiting the time during which malpractice suits can be filed. In fact, tort claims generally have fallen 10 under bill clinton there. But you know, thats not the reason for this Health Insurance crisis. The reason is, weve had absolutely no leadership. Let me tell you about a friend of mine named mitch philpot from marietta, georgia not far from here who tipper and i met with his family in Johns Hopkins hospital. Their son, brett, was in the bed next to our son and they couldnt pay their medical bills. They used to live in atlanta, but they lost their house. And while they were there, both mitch and his wife lost their jobs because they could not get unpaid leave. We pass legislation to give family leave under circumstances like that, exempting Small Business. How can you talk about family values, dan, and twice veto the family medical leave act . applause mr Vice President. Pass our family leave act, because it goes to Small Businesses where the major problem is. Your proposal excluded Small Business. Thats the problem. Now, let me talk about health care and did you require it . Did you require it . My turn holding hand up at gore its a free discussion. Take a breath, al. Inhale. applause did you require family leave in that legislation . Yes or no . We offered incentives to Small Businesses. Yes or no al gore jr. Thats a no, isnt it . Was Small Business exempted under your proposal . Yes. Yes. And thats where the biggest problem is did you require it of anyone . Im going to get back to the topic again did you require it of anyone . Because he obviously doesnt want to talk about Health Insurance or health care, which you address. I was absolutely i shouldnt say that another clinton. You pulled another clinton on me because here you go again
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