Good evening from the civic center in philadelphia, pennsylvania. I am dorothy ridings, president the legal woman voters. Sponsor of the Vice President ial debate between republican george bush and democrat gerald dean perot. Our panelists tonight are john mashek, National Correspondent for u. S. News and world report, jack white, correspondent for time magazine, Norma Quarles, a correspondent for nbc news, and robert boyd, Washington Bureau chief for night bitter newspapers. Sander vanocur, senior corps responded for abc news is our moderator. Thank you dorothy. A few thing about the order of the format tonight. At the order of questioning was determined by a toss of the coin. Congresswoman ferraro one, she wants to speak last. Vice president bush will get the first question. The debate will be built on a series of questions from the reporters on the panel. A reporter will ask a candidate question. A followup question. And then the same to the other candidate. Each candidate will get to rebut the other. The debate will be divided into two parts the a section based on domestic affairs, second on foreign affairs. The manner of address was decided by the candidates. Therefore if we will be Vice President bush, congresswoman ferraro, and we begin with john mashek. John adams, our nations first president , once said today i am nothing, tomorrow i may be everything. With that in mind, i would like to ask the following question. Vice president bush, four years ago you ran against mr. Reagan for the republican nomination. You disagree with him on such issues as equal rights amendment, abortion, and labeled his economic policies as booty. Now you apparently agree with him on every issue. If you should be called upon to assume the presidency, would you follow mr. Reagans policies down the line . Would you revert to your own ideas . I dont think theres a great difference between my ideas and president reagans. One of the reasons i think were ineffective team is that i believe firmly in his leadership. Hes really turned the country around. We agree on the economic program. When we came into office, inflation was 21 and a half percent Interest Rates wiping out every single american. 21 and a half percent if you can believe it. Productivity was down. Savings were down. There was despair. In fact the leadership of the country told people there was a malaise out there. This president turned around. I have been with him every step of the way. Of course i would continue those kinds of programs. Because its brought america back. America is better off and people are going to work. Why mr. Mondale cannot see that there is a new enthusiasm in the country, there is new strong leadership, i dont know. He has one answer. Raise everybodys taxes, he looked and said in San Francisco that im going to raise your taxes. Hes had a lot of experience and it. He can go ahead and do it. But i remember a statement of lyndon johnsons, hes looking around why his party people were not supporting him. He said, hey, they painted their tails white and ran with the antelopes. Theres a lot of democratic white tails running with the antelopes. Not one single democrat has introduced the mondale tax bill into the congress. Of course i support the president s economic program. I support him and everything else. Im not sure because of my concept of the vice presidency, that if i did not id go doing what mr. Don dale has done with jimmy carter. Jumping away from him. I could not do it to ronald reagan. Now next year, any other time. I have too much trust in him. I have too much friendship for him. I feel very uncomfortable doing it. Some republicans have criticized mr. Mondale for not planning with jimmy carters decision to impose a grand embargo. Have you ever disagreed with any decision of the Reagan Administration and its inner circles, and in following it up, where are your judgments where loyalty and some principal tea begins . I owe my president my judgment. I owe him loyalty than. You cannot have the president of the United States out there looking over his shoulder, wondering whether his Vice President will be supporting him. Mrs. Ferraro has differences with Vice President mondale. I understand when she change her position on tuition tax credits. She voted to expand the grand embargo. He now says he was against it. If they win, i hope they dont, but if they do, she will have to accommodate views. She will give him the same kind of loyalty im giving president reagan. One, we are not far apart on anything. To, i can walk into the oval office anytime and give him my judgment. You might agree or not. He also knows i will not be talking about it to the press, i will not be knifing in the back by leaking to make me look good, complicate the problems of the president of the u. S. Congresswoman ferraro, your opponent has served in the house of representatives, has been ambassador to the united nations, to china, director of the Central Intelligence agency, and now Vice President for four years. What is your three terms in the house representative stack up against his experience . Let me first say i was not born at the age of 43 when i entered congress. I had a life before as well. I was a prosecutor for almost five years, the District Attorneys Office in queens county. I was a teacher. Its not only what is on your paper resume that makes who qualified to run for, to hold office. Its how you approach problems. What your values are. I think if one is taking a look at my career, we will see eye level with the people. I approach problems analytically. I am able to assess various facts with reference to problems. I can make the hard decisions. Im intrigued when i hear Vice President bush talk about his support of the president s economic program, how everything is going beautifully. I as well recall when Vice President bush was running in the primary against president reagan. He called the program buddha economics. It was and is. We are facing massive deficits. This administration has chosen to ignore it. The president has failed to put forth a plan to deal with those deficits. If they believe everything is coming up roses, perhaps the Vice President should join me as i travel around the country and speak to people. People in johnston, pennsylvania, are not terribly thrilled with what is happening. Theyre standing in the light of a closed plant. Because theyve lost their jobs. People in youngstown, ohio, have stores boarded up. Because the economy is not doing well. Its only the Old Industries failing. Its also the new ones. It san jose, california. Theyre complaining because they cannot export their high tech qualities their goods to japan and other qualities. People in the northwest are complaining about what is happening to the timber industry. The agriculture industry as well. Things are not as great as the administration is wanting us to believe. In their television commercials. My feeling, quite frankly, is that i have enough experience to see the problems, to address them, and make the tough decisions and level with people to reference the problems. Despite the historic aspects of your candidacy, how do you account for the fact that in majority of women, according to the polls, favor the reagan and bush ticket over the mondale and ferraro ticket . I dont. Let me say im not a believer in polls. Let me say further that what we are talking about our problems that are facing the entire nation. They are not just problems facing women. The issues in the campaign, the war peace issues. The problems are deficits. The problems of trade deficits. We are now facing 120 billion trade deficit in this country. Were facing problems of the environment. I think what we are going to be doing over the next several weeks im absolutely delighted that the league is sponsoring the debates. We are able to now speak to the American Public. To address the issues anyway such as this. I think youre going to see change in the polls. Vice president bush, one minute to rebuttal. Well, i was glad to get the vote of confidence from mrs. Ferraro in my economic judgment. Let me make a statement on the economy. The other day she was a plant, she was in a plant, and she said to the workers what are you voting, why so many of you, for the reagan bush ticket . There was a long, deathly silence. She said come on, we deliver. Thats the problem. Im not blaming her. The liberal voting record in the house, they delivered. They delivered 21 and a half percent Interest Rates. They delivered what they call malaise. They delivered Interest Rates right off the charts. They delivered take home pays, checks that were shrinking. Weve delivered optimism. People are going back to work. 6 million of them. And 300,000 jobs a month are being created. Thats why there was a deathly silence out there in the plane. They delivered the wrong thing. Ronald reagan is delivering leadership. Congresswoman ferraro . One minute rebuttal. I think what im going to have to do is start correcting the Vice President s statistics. There are 6 million more people with jobs, its supposed to happen in a growing economy. And the prime administration, with all their problems, they created 10 million jobs. The housing Interest Rates during the administration, for middle class americans, was 14. 5 under the prior administration. The average rate was 10. 6 . If you take a look at the number of People Living in poverty, as a result of this administration, 6 Million People. 500,000 people knocked off disability rolls. Its you can walk around saying things are great. If thats what im hearing, weve been hearing it on the commercials for a past couple months. They expect the American People to believe it. I will become a one woman truth squad and it will start tonight. Mr. White . Congresswoman ferraro, id like to ask you about civil rights. And the past have been a supporter of tuition tax credit. And also of constitutional amendments to ban busing. Both measures opposed not only by your running mate, by about every educational in Civil Rights Organization in the country. I agree, do you change of position on either of those . With reference to the busing vote in 1979, both mondale and i agree on the same goal. Its non discrimination. I just dont agree on the same direction he does on how to achieve it. I dont find any problem with it. That something handled by the courts. Not being handled by congress. It will now be handled by the white house. We will support nondiscrimination. The integration of neighborhoods. The goals weve both set forth. With tuition tax credits, i represent a district in queens. Its 70 catholic. Let me say as well that ive been in great support of Public School education. That is something that we both feel strongly about for the future of the country. This administration over the past several years has guided the Educational Programs available to our young people. It has attempted to knock out grants, monies to young individuals poor and who can afford to go to college. It is reduced by 25 the amount of money is going into college education, by a third, those going into secondary and primary schools. Monday and i feel strongly that if you educate your children, that it is an effort, a way to build up a stronger america. With reference to civil rights, i think you need to go beyond it. If you take a look at my record in the congress, and mondales record in the senate and as Vice President , we both have extremely strong civil rights records. This administration does not. It has come in the bob jones case on the side of segregated academies. It came in in the grove city case on the side of discrimination against women handicapped, the elderly as well. As a matter of fact, in congress, we passed overwhelmingly a civil rights bill of 1984. The Republican Controlled Senate killed it the last week in congress. There is a difference between how the Mondale Ferraro will address the problems of civil rights, the failure of this administration. Specifically in that area. And the area of affirmative action, what steps do you think government can take to increase representation of minorities and women in the workforce . And colleges and university . Specifically, would you support the use of quotas to achieve it . I dont ex support quotas. Mr. Mandela and i feel strongly about affirmative action to correct inequities. We believe that steps should be taken. Both through government and, for instance, the Small Business administration. Weve supported setting aside for women and minorities and business. We dont feel that youre in any way hurting anybody else by reaching out with affirmative action to help those whove been disenfranchised. On the contrary, if you have a growing economy, if you create jobs, if you allow for Small Business the opportunity with lower Interest Rates to reach out and grow, there will be more than enough space for everybody. Affirmative action is a way to deal with the problems of discrimination. Vice president bush, many critics of your administration say its the most hostile to minorities in recent memory. Have you inadvertently encourage that view by supporting to asian tax credits, anti busing amendments, the original opposition to the Voting Rights and so forth . No, mr. White. I think our record an civil rights is a good record. You mentioned devoting right. Its extension was extended for the longest period of time. By president reagan. We have some problems in attracting the black vote. I think our record deserves better. We have done more for black colleges than any Previous Administration. We favor enterprise zones. To give. Its been blocked by tip oneill, the house of representatives. The liberals in the house. They blocked a new idea to bring jobs into the black communities across the country. And because its not an old hand out special federal spending program, it is blocked. A good idea. I would like to see that tried. We brought more civil rights cases to the Justice Department than the Previous Administration by far. We believe in trying something new to help black teenagers. The minimum wage differential, that says look higher these guys. Yes, theyre willing to work for a slightly less than the minimum wage. Give them a training job. In a private sector. We throughout that old ceta that did not train people for jobs that existed. Random on to the government payroll. We put it in a thing called the drab Training Partnership back. It wonderful new legislation thats helping blacks more and more. We think of civil rights as Something Like crime in your neighborhoods. For example, when it crime figures are going in the right direction, that is good. Its a civil right. Similarly we think of it in terms of a quality of life. That means Interest Rates. Its funny. Mr. Mondale talks about real Interest Rates. The real Interest Rate is what you pay when you get out and tried to buy a tv set, by a car, do whatever it is. The Interest Rates when we left office were 21 and a half percent. Inflation is that a civil right to have it off the charts . So you are busting every American Family . Those that afforded the less . We have a good record. We have it on civil rights legislation, minority set asides, hope for black colleges, and in terms of an economy offering people opportunity. Offering hope instead of despair. Along those lines are. Many recent studies have indicated that the poor, minorities, have not been shared in the new prosperity generated by the economic recovery. Was it right for the administration to pursue policies, economic policies, they require those at the bottom of the economic ladder to wait for prosperity to trickle down from people much better off than them . Mr. White, its not trickling down. Im not suggesting there is no poverty. I am suggesting a way to work out poverty is through opportunity. In the meantime, the needy are getting more help. Human resource spending is way, way up. Aid for dependent children spending is up. Immunization programs are up. Every place you can point, contrary to mr. Mondales i need to be careful. Contrary to how he goes around saying everything that. If he sees somebody with a silver lining, he finds a black cloud out there. Why not on harvest moon. There is a lot going on. A lot of opportunity. Congress woman ferraro . The Vice President said the Voting Rights act, it was after he did not support it in the congress or senate. It was passed despite opposition. He did sign it because he was required to do so. The civil rights cases he mentioned, the great number of cases they have a divorce, the reason they did it was because under the law they are required. Im delighted the administration is following the law. With reverence [applause] excuse me, this will be out of my time. Not yours. Knowing and cherishing the people of the city, knowing the restraint and difference about emotion, and the athletic context which this is not one, i beseech you to try to hold your applause. Please. I am sorry. I just have to correct him in my 30 seconds left. The comment that the Vice President made. Referencing to a program like a ftc. You take a ftc, food stamps, and go down the line of the poor People Programs of people that suffered under this administrations first budget cuts. Those are the ones in the second term, second part of the term, we were able to restore some of those terribly unfair cuts to the poor people of the country. Vice president bush . Well, maybe we have a factual maybe we can ask the experts go to the books. People do it anyway. Spending for food stamps is way, way up under the Reagan Administration. Afdc its up under the Reagan Administration. I am not going to be found wrong on that. I am sure of my facts. And we are trying to help. I think we are doing a reasonable job. We are not going to rest until every single american that once a job gets a job. Until the prosperity, this recovery, is benefiting Many Americans, benefits all americans. Vice president bush, one of the most emotional issues in the campaign has been the question of the separation of church and state. What are your views on the separation of church and state . Specifically with regard to abortion. Do you believe it was right for the archbishop of philadelphia to have a letter read and 305 churches urging catholics to fight abortion with their votes. I do believe in pluralism. I do believe in separation of church and state. I dont consider abortion a religious issue. A considerate a moral issue. I believe the archbishop has every right to do everything he wants in that direction. Just as i never fall to Jesse Jackson from taking his message to the black pulpit to cross country. Just as i never objected when the nuclear arms of the nuclear freeze. Of the anti nuclear people. Many of those movements were led by priests. Suddenly, because a catholic bishop, and evangelist, feel strongly on a political issue, people are saying its emerging of church and state. We favor, and i speak confidently for the president , separation of church and state. We favor pluralism. Now somebody says you want to restore prayer in schools. You dont think its right to prohibit a kid from prying and schools. Four years kids were allowed to pray in schools. We dont think its a merger of church and state to have a non mandatory, voluntary, nongovernment ordered prayer. Yet some are accusing up of injecting politics into i have no problem with the archbishop. Im no problem with the evangelist on the right, no problem with the priests on the left. It did not bother me when during the vietnam war, much of the opposition to the government, democrat and republican governments, was led by priests. Encouraging people to break the law. The adage of civil disobedience. Our position, separation of church and state, pluralism. No little kid with a minority religion of some sort is going to feel offended or feel left out, or feel uncomfortable. Yes, prayer in school, voluntary basis. It worked for many years. Until the Supreme Court ruled differently. And im glad we have this question. I think theres been too much said about religion in politics. We dont believe in denominational eat moving in. It was not our side that raised a question about our president. Whether a good question or not. So [applause] please that is our position. Separation of church and state. Pluralism. Respect for all. Vice president bush, four years ago you wouldve allowed federal financing of abortions and cases of rape and incest, as well as when the mothers life was threatened. There is your position now agree with that of president reagan . Who in some debates came close to saying that abortion is murder. You know, there has been, and i need to make a confession, in evolution in my position. Theres been 15 million abortions since 1973. I dont take it lightly. Theres been 1 million and a half this year. The president and i do favor a human rights amendment. I favor one that would have an exception for incest and rape. He does not. Only for the life of the mother. I agree with him on that. Yes, my position has evolved. Id like to see the american paste with 50 million abortions, isnt rethinking his or her position. I will stand with the answer i support the president s position. Comfortably from a moral standpoint. You believe its taken to murder . I support to president s position. Congress woman ferraro, what are your views on the separation of church and stay with regard to abortion . Do you believe it was right for the archbishop of philadelphia to have those letters read in the pulpits, in the city, and urge voters to put abortion with their vote . Let me say i believe sincerely and separation of church and state. Picking from a historical viewpoint, if you go back to the 16 hundreds when people came here, the reason why they came to the country was to escape religious persecution. That is the same reason why people are coming here today in the 1940s to escape nazism. Now in the 19 eighties, 1984 when they can get out of a country to escape communism to come here and practice their religion. Our country is founded on the principle that our government should be mutual as far as religion is concerned. What has happened over the past several years, quite frankly im not going to let you lay on me the intrusion of state politics into religion, religion into politics, with my reference to the president s politics. It started when this demonstration was running for president. What has happened over the past four years has been, i think, a real budging of the line with the separation of church and state. The actions of the arch bishop, let me say to you, i feel like they have not just a right, but a responsibility to speak up. Even though ive been the person theyre speaking up about, i feel like they do have the responsibility to do so. Im no problem with it. No more than i did with the priest who marched at the time of the vietnam war. No more than i did at the time when Martin Luther king did it. He march at the time of the civil rights marches. I have no problem with them speaking up. They have an obligation, as well as a right. What i do have a problem with is when the president of the United States gets up in dallas. He addresses a group of individuals. Said to them that anybody who doesnt support his constitutional amendment for prayer in schools is intolerant of religion. Now there are numerous groups who dont support that. Numerous religious groups. Are they intolerant of religion . Its over the president and saying . I also object when im told the reverend has been told he will pick two of our Supreme Court justices. Thats going far. In that instance, let me say to you, its more than a budging on the line. Its a total intrusion. I think its a violation of our constitution. Congresswoman ferraro, as a devout catholic, does it trouble you that so many of the leaders of your church disagree with you . Do you think youre being treated unfairly in any way of a the Catholic Church . Let me tell you i did not come to my position on abortion likely. I am a devoid catholic. When i was running for congress in 1978, i sat with the person i felt close to, currently a bishop. I spoke to him about my personal feelings i would never have an abortion. I was not quite sure if i were ever to be pregnant of a rape, if i would be that self righteous. Ive been spoke to him and he said its not good enough. You cannot support that position. I said, okay. Thats my religious view. Ill accept the teaching of the church. But i cannot enforce on someone else. I take an oath as a public official to represent all the people in my district. Not just a catholics. And there comes a time where i cannot practice my religion, do my job properly, i will resign from my job. Vice president bush, your rebuttal. I respect that statement. I really, truly do. We have a difference on the moral question here of abortion. I notice that mr. Mondale keeps talking in the debate, its come up here about mr. Caldwell. I dont know where this canard could have come from about him picking the Supreme Court justices. Ronald reagan has made one superb, outstanding, the only one hes made, appointment to the Supreme Court. That was oconnor. And mr. Falwell oppose it. I hope this lays to rest this land or against the president. We want justices who will interpret the constitution. Not legislated. Congresswoman, your rebuttal. Yes, i still find it difficult to believe because on the platform which the Republican Party passed in dallas. One of things that they do, they said the position on abortion, would be a litmus test. Not only for Supreme Court justices by the other justices. That again seems to me, a blurring of the lines, and the separation of church and state. The next question, for mr. Boyd. Like Many Americans each of you has had an unhappy experience with the Internal Revenue service. Im going to prolong your deal. Congresswoman ferraro, you disagree with the rule that is it a candidate must report the income or assets of her spouse or her spouse, if you get any benefit from them. Your husbands tax returns shows you got benefit, because he paid the mortgage and property taxes on your home. Now the Ethics Committee is examining this question, but it will not report its findings until after the election. Would you be willing to ask that committee, to hurry up its work and report before the election . Let me say to you, that i already did that. Id wanted them to move ahead, and if you recall i spent about an hour and 45 minutes speaking to 200 reporters on august 21st which was the day after i was asked to file my financial statement. And i set for as long as they had questions on the issue and i believe they were satisfied. I filed more information than any candidate. And not only did i agree to file my tax returns, after a bit of putting my husband, he also agreed to file his. With the not only the Ethics Committee but with the fcc but the action that youre speaking about at the Ethics Committee was started by a right wing Legal Organization or foundation. Knowing that i would have to that there would be an automatic inquiry. We have filed the necessary papers and i have asked them along. Unfortunately the house, a were not in session, today i dont know if they will move. But frankly i would like that to be taken care of anyway, because i just want to clear it up. Since that famous august 21st press conference on your family finances, you filed a new report with the Ethics Committee. It showed that your previous reports were full of mistakes and omissions. And you failed to report about 12 trips that were paid for by special interest groups, at least 18 cases your holdings were misstated. Do you think it showed good leadership or attention to duty, to blame all this on sloppy work by your accountant . What it showed, is that i hired an accountant who had been with our family for well over 40 years, and he was filling out those ethics forms and i did not spend the time with him, and i gave them my Tax Information and he did it. I have to tell you what we have done, since i have hired a marvelous accountant, i spent a lot of money go through all those ethics forms, and he will be doing my taxes over the next eight years while were in the white house. So the American Public can be sure its taken care of. Vice president bush, last year you paid less than 13 of your income in federal taxes, according to the irs someone in your bracket, normally pays about 28 of his income. Now what you did was perfectly legal, but do you think it was fair and is there something wrong with our tax laws that allows such large deduction for wealthy taxpayers . What that, figure in the way that i like mrs. Farrow and mr. Cairo reported because they reported federal taxes, state and local taxes. To give people a clear picture. That happens that you are having to pay a lot of state and local taxes, which as you know are detected from the other. So i looked it up the other day, and we have paid i think 42 of our gross income in taxes. Now mr. Mondale the other night, and ill be honest, i thought it was a cheap shot that he took me. We did a little looking around, to see about his and we cant find his 1981 tax return, and it may have been released, and maybe my opponent knows whether mr. Mondale released it. But we did find, estimates that his income for those three years is 1 million, 400,000 dollars. I think he paid about the same percentages i did in tone taxes. He also made a reference, that troubled me very much, mr. Boyd, he started talking about my chauffeur. And im driven to work by the secret service. And so as mrs. Ferraro, so as mr. Mondale. They protected his life for four years. Now theyve done a beautiful job, you know and they save the life of the president of the United States. And i thought that was a cheap shot, telling the American People, to try to divide class rich and poor. But the big question, is isnt whether mrs. Ferraro is doing well, i think theyre doing pretty well. And i know barbara and i are doing well. And its pretty sure that mr. Mondale is doing well with 1,400,000 an income. But the question is after we get through this disclosure, is the tax cut fair . Are people getting a fair break, and the answer is the rich are paying 6 more, on taxes and the poor are getting a better break. Those lower and middle income people have borne the burden for a long time. So yes i favor disclosure, and this year i had my taxes and everything i own in a blind trust. So blind, that i dont even sign my tax return. They are saying to be interested, and we went to the government Ethics Committee, they change the trust, the trust has been revealed, and i was sure glad to see that i paid 42 of my gross incoming in texas. Mister Vice President , how can you claim that your home is in maine, for tax purposes and at the same time, claim that your home is in texas for voting voting purposes. Are you really a texan or new england. Or i am a texan. And every taxpayer is allowed to get the rollover. And you know i know that miss ferraro, says she has a good account why like kids will, numbers i think i paid too much in taxes. And legal residents, for voting is very different and the domicile, very different than the house. If they say youre living in the Vice President s house, therefore you dont get you know and i got problems that every other taxpayer. Has i problems with the iris, and so does a lot of people out there. I think i paid too much, and nothing unethical i think id like to get some money back. Let me just say i would love to give mr. Bush the my name of my accountant. So but hes very expensive i must warn you. So i think that the system that our government uses the tax system is fair. But are the tax cut, that Vice President bush and i got last time, or three years ago we know thats not fair. And if you earn 200,000 dollars, you got 25,000 dollar tax cut. If you are between 20 and 40,000 dollars, you got between ten and 20, close to hundred dollars. And if you earned 10,000 dollars, you suffered a loss of 400 dollars and thats not fair. Its basically unfair. Not only is unfair but economically it has destroyed this country its a 750 dollar 750 Million Dollar tax cut and thats why were facing the enormous effort deficits we have today. I think i said all i want to say i didnt fully address myself to mr. Boyds question on disclosure. I love the fight in 1968 in the house, i was in the house of representatives forecast for a couple of terms, and i lead the fight for disclosure. I believe in it. Before i went into this job, i disclosed and you know i disclosed everything we had. We didnt have any private corporations, i disclosed everything. The then, to protect the public interest, we went into this blind trust. I believe in a blind trust, because i believe a public official, in this kind of job ought not to know whether hes going to benefit directly or indirectly, by some holding he might have. Or something of that nature. And i support full disclosure. Thank you that ends the part of this debate, for domestic affairs, now were beginning foreign affairs. And we will begin questioning. Vice president bush, the president has said he will have a stern response against terrorism. But that accept continued against lebanon and in the middle east. So who is to blame . And youve been director of the Central Intelligence agency, so can be done to stop it . Terrorism, is very very difficult to stop. I think that Everybody Knows that. And we had ambassadors killed in the suit and lebanon a long time ago. When you see, the israeli building in lebanon, after the death of our marines and you see that hit by terrorism, the israelis with all their experience fighting terrorism, you know its difficult. When you see home many, with his radicalism resorting to government sponsored terrorism, its very difficult. The intelligence business can do a good job, but i am one who defends the Central Intelligence agencies i think we have to strengthen and i think we have the best foreign intelligence business in the world but it is very difficult to get the Source Information that you need to go after something as shadowy as International Terror. There was a difference between iran and what happened in lebanon, in iran you had a Government Holding a u. S. Embassy. The government sanctioning the takeover of that embassy by those students. The government negotiating with the United States government for their release. In lebanon, in the chairs happened at the embassy, you have the government there, mr. Jim ill, that want to help fight against terrorism. But the cause of the melee in the middle east, is there today has been there yesterday in the day before, because everyone who has had experience that area knows, it is a very different thing. So what we have to do is use the best security possible, and i dont think you can go assigning blame, the president of course is the best ive ever seen in accepting that. He has been wonderful about it in everything that happens, but fair minded people who really understand International Terror, know that its hard to guard against. So the answer really lies in the middle east, and terrorism happening all over the year all over the world, is the solution to the palestine question. The follow on to camp david under the umbrella of the reagan september got 1992 initiative. You mentioned home khamenei, some say its almost but theyre almost helpless, against khameneis administration. And colonel coffee. So what is your administration done to take action against arab states from this kind of terrorism. Weve done what weve done is from it to support our dates, that want to stand up against International Terror and we do believe in reaching out, to what they call a gcc, the gulf cooperative counsel states, those moderate arab states in that world, and helping them with offensive weapons to guard against International Terror, or radical islam perpetuated by khamenei. Because we have done that and because the saudis chop down some of those airplanes awhile back, i think we have helped keep the peace in the persian gulf. Congresswoman pharaoh, you and Vice President mondale has criticize the president over the bombings in lebanon, what would you do to prevent such attacks . Let me first say that terrorism, is a global problem and let me say secondly, that mr. Bush has referred to the embassy that was held in iran, and while i was at the white house, in january in 81, when the hostages all 52 of them came home alive. It was at that time president reagan, gave a speech welcoming home as america did we are so excited to see them back. But what he said was, the United States has been embarrassed for the last time. Youre going to stand tall and the hope that this does not if it has ever happen again, they are going to be swift and immediate steps taken to address the wrong that our country has suffered. In april of 1983, i was in beirut and visited the ambassador of the embassy, and two weeks later that Embassy Embassy was bombed. At that time, you look at the crazy activities of terrorism, you know you cant blame anyone. And they do crazy things you know its just gonna happen. But the following october, there was another bomb and that bombing took place at the marine barracks, where 242 young men were killed. Right after that bombing occurred, there was a Commission Set up called the long mission, and to study it as a security range mints, around where the marines were sleeping and found that there was negligence. That they did not have proper gates up, proper precautions to stop those trucks from coming in. So the Long Commission issued report, that president reagan got up and he said on commanderinchief i take responsibility. And we all waited for something to be done, because he took responsibility. Well last month, we had arthur bombing and first time there was no gate up, the second time the gate was open, the third time the gate was there but had not been install. What was the president s reaction . Well, the security arrangements were not in. Our people were placed in that embassy in an unsecured time the marines guarding it or left to go away. Other people held guard of the embassy. The president said i assume responsibility, and i would like to know what that means. Are we going to take proper precautions before you put americans in situations where theyre in danger . Are we just going to walk away throwing our arms in the air . Quite a reversal from the first, time and when he said he was going to do something. Is this president going to take action . Some democrats cringe at the word covert activity. And spying. Do you believe they have a legitimate role in countering terrorist activity . I feel like they do and gathering information. What happened was the cia in the last bombing gave information to our administration with reference to the actual threats the embassy was going to be bombed. It was not the cia at fault. There is a legitimate reason for the cia to be in existence. Its together intelligence. For security. When i say the cia doing things like to doing in Central America, supporting a covert war, i dont support that kind of activity. This cia is there to protect our government. Not there to subvert other governments. Vice president bush . Im surprised [applause] i think i heard mrs. Perot say she would do with all covert action. If that is so, i think that has serious ramifications as the Intelligence Community knows. Its serious business. Sometimes its support for a friend quietly. I believe that there. Let me help you with the difference between iran and the embassy, and lebanon. Iran, we were held by a foreign government. In lebanon, you had a wanted terrorist action, where the government opposed it. We went to lebanon to give peace a chance. To stop the bombing of civilians in beirut. To remove 13,000 terrorists from lebanon. We did. We saw the formation of a government of reconciliation. For somebody to suggest as our two opponents have that these men died in shame, they better not tell the parents of those young marines. They gave peace a chance. Our allies were with this, the british, the french, the italents. Congresswoman . Let me say that i almost resent your patronizing attitude, that you need to teach me about foreign policy. Ive been a member of congress for six years. I was there when the embassy was held hostage in iran. Ive been there, ive seen what has happened in the past several months. The past 17 months with your administration. Secondly, do not categorize my answers either. Leave the interpretation of the answers to the American People watching the debate. Let me say further that no one has ever said those young men who were killed to the negligence of the administration, and others, died in shame. Nobody who has a child who is 19, 20 years old, a son, whatever say that about the loss of anybodys child. Mr. White . [applause] congresswoman, youve repeatedly said you would not want your son to die in an undeclared war for an uncertain cause. Recently a running mate, mr. Mondale, has suggested that it may become necessary to erect a military quarantine, a blockade, and nicaragua. Under what circumstances would you advocate the use of military force of american combat forces in Central America . I would advocate the use of force when necessary to protect the security of our country. To protect our security interests. Or protect our people, to protect the interests of albert friends and neighbors. When president im jumping the gun. Arent i . When mr. Mondale referred to the quarantine of Central America, a country in Central America, what hes referring to is a last resort after all other means of attempting to settle the situation down in that region of the world have been exhausted. Quite frankly, now what is being done by the administration is an americanizing of a regional conflict. Removing maritime really instead of promoting the proper process. As you know, is the process in place with the support of mexico and columbia. With panama, venezuela. The same supporting process our administration has in nicaragua. Has been supporting covert activity to keep the revolution going in order to overthrow the same denise the government. In el salvador, its not pushing the head of the government to move towards correction of the civil rights, human rights, problems existing there. Now this administration seems befuddled by the fact that nicaragua has moved to participate in the process in el salvador through its president s reaching out. So the gorillas could negotiate peace. What mondale and i feel about the situation down there is that you deal through negotiation first. Forest is not a first resort. Its certainly a last resort in any instance. Follow up, please . Many times in its history, the United States has gone to war in order to defend freedom. Thats your answer mean you would be willing to forego the use of military force of him at the establishment of a soviet backed dictatorship so close to our own border . We have worked with the government. I assume youre speaking about nicaragua. We wouldnt work with the government to achieve a pluralistic society. They do have elections coming up on november 4th. I think we need to work with them to achieve a peaceful solution to bring about a pluralistic country. Im not willing to live with a force that could be a danger to our country, certainly i would see that our country would be there putting pressure on the neighboring countries of honduras, costa rica, el salvador. Promoting the kind of society we can live with in security in this century. Vice president bush . Both cuba and nicaragua are reported to be making extensive preparations to defend themselves against an American Invasion which they claim could come this fall. Even some of your democratic opponents in congress has suggested the Administration May be planning a december surprise invasion. Can you tell us what circumstances every elected Reagan Administration we consider use of force and Central America or the caribbean . We dont think would be required to use force. Let me point out that there are 2000 cuban military, saudi 500 socalled cuban advisers in nicaragua. 55 American Military in el salvador. I went down on the instructions of the president to speak to them in el salvador. And told them that they had to move with the president of el salvador to respect human rights. They have done it. They are moving well. Im not saying its perfect. But the difference between al salvador and nicaragua is like the difference between night and day. El salvador went to the polls. He was elected by 70 of the people. 70 boating. Certifiably in a free election. Nicaragua, something very different. You have a marxists leninist group, the sand and east as. They came into power talking democracy. They have aborted democracy. They have humiliated the holy father. They have crackdown on the only press. They have not had any human rights at all and will not permit free elections. Mr. Crews who is to be the only viable challenger to nicaragua saint in east as, went down there and found the ground rules were so unfair that he could not even wage a campaign. One country is devoid of human rights. The other is struggling to perfect democracy. We dont like it frank willy when nicaragua exports its revolution, serves as a conduit for supplies coming in from such democracies as north korea, bulgaria, the soviet union, and cuba. Trying to be destabilizing el salvador. We are concerned. We want to see a trend towards democracy that is continuing. Theres Something Like 13 countries since weve come in moving towards the democratic route. Let me say that grenade is not unrelated. Have a big difference with miss ferraro on that. We gave those caribbean countries a chance. We saved the lives almost of those, 1000 students said they were in jeopardy. Grenade it was a proud moment because we stood up for democracy. In terms of threat of the country, in terms of weapons . No, theres no threat. Its mr. Mondale that supposed the quarantine, not reagan. Considering the countries long respect for rule of international law, was it right for the u. S. To be involved in inviting the harbors of nicaragua, and to subsequently refused to allowed the world court to judy kate the response . I support what were doing. It was supported in congress under the law. I supported. My only regret is the aid for the contras, those people fighting, we call them free to find hims. They want to see democracy perfected in nicaragua. I understand from this assault on covert action, nowhere in the world would we do something that was considered just off base by when the congresswoman said she would never supported . She would never supported after a violation of human rights was so great, quite support was necessary for Freedom Fighters. Guess where for the contras. Let me tell you another fact about them. Everyone whos not forward, everyone who wants to let that sandinista govern prevail like castro did. The contra are not bad. Less than 5 of them supported samoa. They wanted a revolution. These are people that wanted the revolution was betrayed. There were people that support human rights. We should support them. Congresswoman . I spent a good deal of time in Central America in january. I had an opportunity to speak to the contra after being in nicaragua. And in el salvador let me say this situations that exist now because of the administrations policies are not getting better. Were not moving towards more secure areas of the world. A matter of fact, the number of troops that they sandinista has accumulated has risen from 12 to 50,000 since administration took over. The number of cuban advisers has increased. I did not support the mining of the harbors in nicaragua. Its a violation of international law. Congress is not supported. As a matter of fact, just this week, the congress voted to cut out covert aid to nicaragua. Unless a request is made. That theres evidence of a need for it. That Congress Approves it again in march. Congress does not get laid on. The covert things i oppose, those cia Covert Missions in that country, are not supported by congress. Believe it or not, not supported by the majority of people in the country. Vice president bush . Well, i would simply like to make the distinction again. Between the countries that are searching for democracy and the handful of countries that have totally violated human rights, and are going the marxist route. Ortega, the common dante whose head of the nicaraguan sandinista isnt about marxist. They dont believe in church. They dont believe in a free election. They dont believe in all the values that we believe in. It is our policy to support democracies there. And when you have Freedom Fighters that want to perfect a revolution and go the democratic route, we believe in giving them support. We are for support. We are for negotiation three dollars out of every four sundown there has been for economic aid. To support the peoples chance to eat and live. To be happy and enjoy life. One fourth only was military. You would not get that from listening to mr. Mondale. Miss Norma Quarles . By president bush, the last three republican administrations, eisenhower, nixon, and ford, none of them are soft on communism. They met with the soviets and got agreements on arms control. The soviets have not changed that much. Can you tell us why president reagan has not met with the soviet ministers at all . And only met with Foreign Ministers less than a month ago. Yes i can. The you mentioned that meeting. They were broken up under the mondale days. There have been three separate soviet leaders. During their in three and a half years, three separate leaders. The soviets have not been willing to talk. We are the ones that went to the table and we had a good proposal. It was a moral proposal. Ban an entire generation of intermediate Nuclear Force weapons. If you wont, dont leave your allies in europe in a monopoly position. The soviets with 1200 of these things, the alliance with none. We didnt think thats a way to deter aggression and keep peace. The president went, the first thing when he came into office, was make a proposal of the most destabilizing weapons of all. And strategic weapons. When the soviet said well, we dont like it, we said okay, will be more flexible. I had the urging of the president went to geneva and laid on the table a treaty to ban on chemical weapons. We dont want them to have a monopoly. We said look, lets come together. Come over here and see what we are doing. Will go over there and see what youre doing. Lets save the kids of the world from chemical weapons. A brilliant proposal to get rid of all of them. The soviets said no. The neutral balance force reduction, to reduce conventional forces. Theyre not willing to tell us the base. How many troops do they have, theres four sessions. We have not had agreement with them on the hotline. But they made the salt two agreement, but the Democratic Senate they were a democratic administration. The Democratic Senate would not even ratify that agreement. It was flawed it was an verifiable, and it was not good. Our president wants to reduce, not just to stop he wants to reduce dramatically Nuclear Weapons. And when the soviets know theyre going to have the strong president to deal with, and when this new administration, mr. Churning co, given a few months in office, can solidify his position. But if they think the opposition before they sit down, are going to go for a freeze that will go. What you are once quoted as saying, a nuclear war is winnable, is that still your belief . If not under what circumstances would you use Nuclear Weapons if your president . No i dont think it was winnable, i was quoted wrong obviously i never thought that. Got the soviet planning, i learned about that when i was the lead it would not as head of this the cia. But i think that Nuclear Weapons, should never be fought with. That is our approach. Therefore, lets encourage the soviets to come to the table, and i wish everybody can see in the meeting, the president given the facts, to all of these nuclear meetings, he was excellent and he was right on top of that subject matter. And i bet you, they went back to the so union saying, that this president is calling the shots, we better move. You know i think we will get an agreement, because i think its in the interest of the soviet union to make it. Just as it is in the interest of the United States. Theyre not deterred by rhetoric, i listen to rhetoric for two years at the united nations, i have lived in a communist country. It is not rhetoric that besides agreements, its self interest. Congresswoman ferraro, you and mr. Mondale, want a verifiable nuclear freeze. And they said in some cases that verification might not be possible. How could you verify such an agreement, and make sure that the soviets are not cheating . Let me say first of all, that i dont think there is any issue that is more important in this campaign and this election, then the issue of war and peace. Since today is Eleanor Roosevelt hundred birthday, i will quote her its not enough to believe in peace but you must work for it. This is ministrations policies, have indicated quite the opposite. The last time, i heard Vice President bush, blame the fact that they did not meet with the soviet leader, and it was the first president in 40 years, not to meet with the soviet counterpart,. So i went and got a computer print out, it five pages of the World Leaders, of soviet World Leaders that the soviets met with, and you know these are people from france and germany, and you can go down the line. Five pages of people that the soviet leaders have managed to meet with, but they have somehow not met with the president of United States. In addition to not meeting with the soviet counterpart, this is the first president and you are right, since the start of negotiating arms control agreement, who has not negotiated it and not only did he not negotiate one, hes been opposed to every single one that every other president has negotiated. Including ford, and nixon. So let me just say, that was reference to the Vice President s comments about the intent and the desire of the United States in this administration the soviet union did walk out of the talks but it seems to me that 1982 in the administration presented its proposal, it was not a realistic proposal and thats the comment that was made by secretary hague. And thats because it just dealt with land based nuclear missiles. And put that aside in 1982, their own negotiator, came out with a proposal which would have limited the number of nuclear arms in europe. That proposal, was turned down by the administration. The proposal presented by its own administrator. I am delighted that they met with mr. Graham eco. But they couldve had that before. Congresswoman, i have to impose a limit on you. Vice president bush, your turn. I think theres quite a difference between the leader of cypress, and leader of the United States ronald reagan. And the soviet union, will meet with a lot of different people, and weve been in close touch with mr. Mr. Awe and mr. Cole, and other people who have met with the soviet union. But thats quite different that meeting with the president of the United States. And the soviets and said we will have a meeting when we think there can be progress. So by the way was the soviet union, that was unwilling to discuss the walk in the woods. And they gun that down first. And miss ferraro mentioned the impossible italy of strategic arms, and we offered it first to get rid of those now to reduce the ses 18s, but we said if that is not good enough there is flexibility. So thats an important point, in terms of negotiation. Congress woman he did take it away has to give it back, you have two minutes to rebuttal. You rob me of my followup so, i will have that heres your two minutes. So congresswoman ferraro, most polls show, the americans feel that the republicans more than democrats are better able to keep the u. S. Out of war. We have had four years of relative peace under ronald reagan, how can you convince the American Public that the world will be a safer place under Carter Mondale . I think first of all you have to take a look at the current situation, we have 50,000 nuclear warheads, and we are building at the rate of five or six a day and weve been doing that since these demonstrations came into office. I think what you can do to see what theyve done, and to realize theyre not going to do much in the future. Since they have done nothing, do we continue to build . Because an arms race does not lead to anything except another arms race. Thats it. Vice president mondale, has indicated what he would do, is when he gets into office he would contact his soviet counterpart, counterpart and set up an annual meeting. And then start talking. Secondly he would issue a challenge, the challenge would be in the nature of temporary neutral verifiable, moratorium to hold the testing in the air. In the atmosphere. That would respond with a challenge from the soviet union and we hope to sit down and negotiate a treaty. That was done in 1960, like a and watching my time sorry. You have another minute. That would give us an opportunity to sit down and negotiate a treaty. That was done in 1960, by president kennedy and in 1960 3 am sorry, what he issued a challenge to the soviet union and he said we will not test in space in the atmosphere if you will not and they did not, and then they negotiated a treaty. And we do not now have to worry about that type of testing. It can be done, it will be done if only you have the will to do it. And we met it with them its mutual and verifiable and ones that challenge is not met and testing would resume then we would continue testing as well. We our last series of questions were. Congresswoman ferraro you have had little or no experience in military matters. And yet you might someday find yourself. Commander in chief of the armed forces. How can you convince the American People and a potential enemy. That you would know what to do to protect this nation security. And do you think. In any ways of the soviets might be tempted to try to take advantage of you simply because you are a woman. Are you saying that i would have to have fought in the war in order to love peace. Im not saying that im asking you. You know what i have. All right. I think what happens is when you try to equate whether or not ive had military experience thats the natural conclusion. Its a bad a valid is saying that you would have to be black in order to despise racism. That you have to be female in order to be terribly offended by sexism. Thats just not. I think. If you take a look at where ive been both in the congress. And where i intend to go. The type of person i am i think that the. The people of this country can rely upon the fact that i will be a leader. I only the soviet union for one minute. Can sit down and make a determination on what i will do. If im ever in a position to have to do something with reference to the soviet union. By frankly. Im prepared to do whatever is necessary in order to secure this country and make sure that security is maintained secondly if the soviet union were to ever believe that they could challenge the United States. With any sort of Nuclear Forces or otherwise. If i were in a position leadership in this country. They would be assured that they would be met with swift, concise and certain retaliation for not just tp say i want to thank you the most important thing that i think it says im a leader that what one has to do is get to the point where youre not put into that position. And the way you get to that position of moving away from having to make a decision on force or anything else is by moving toward arms control. And thats not what been done over the past four years. I think that he would take a look at the failures of this administration. That would have to be number one. I will not put myself in that position as a leader in this country. I will move immediately. I guess the concern i have, is concern not only is Vice President ial candidate, but a citizen of this country. My concern, is that we are not doing anything to stop the arms race, and it seems to me that if we keep talking about military inferiority which we do not have that we are at a comparable level with this soviet union, and our joint chiefs of staff say they would Never Exchange our military power for, theres and i guess the thing that i want is a commitment. That pretty soon, theyre going to do something about making this a safer world for all of us. Vice president bush, four years ago president reagan insisted that he military buildup would bring the soviets to negotiate seriously. Since then we have spent almost a trillion dollars on the fence, but the soviets are still building their military forces rapidly as we are. And there are no negotiations. Was the president s original presence is a rig his original premise was it wrong. We know i think it wasnt only corrected is correct. Clearly when we came into office the American People recognize that we had slipped in the position of inferiority on various things. Some of our planes, as the president pointed out were older than the pilots. Ships that could not go out to sea, and you had a major problem with the military. And the morale was not very good either. So we have had to strengthen the military, and we are well on the way to getting that job done. America is back in terms of military strength, in terms of our ability to deter aggression and keep the peace. All the same time however, we have made proposals and proposals, sound proposals on reducing Nuclear Weapons, and the strategic arms reduction talks were good proposals. It was its soviets who left the table. Where the chemical weapon treaty to ban on chemical weapons, it was our initiative not the soviets. And we wish they would think a new, and move forward to verification. So that everybody would know that the other side was keeping its word, but much more important to reduce the amount of terror. We, and we are talking to them in vienna, about conventional force reductions. Weve talked to them about human rights, and ive met with mr. And drop off, and mr. Chen ankle, and we tried to do something about the human rights crisis. And the situation, of the suppression of soviet jews is absolutely intolerable. Its intolerable good but because weve address the imbalances, and were close to getting that job done, the soviets are more likely to make a deal. The soviets made the treaty, when they thought we were going to deploy an atm system. So i am optimistic for the future, once they realize that they will have a strong principled president to negotiate with. Strong leadership, and with demonstrable flexibility on arms control. Now mr. Vice president , ill give you a chance to ask a question that you would most like to ask of your opponent. Well i dont really have a question but id like to have the time to maybe talk about something of interest maybe the world series. But i will say this, but we are so different we are administrations so different than the Carter Mondale administration, that people will have the clearest choice. So you know where we came in on inflation, just bear, moles no leadership, and blaming the American People for failed leadership. Or another option, keep this recovery going, until it benefits everybody. Peace at home, peace abroad and prosperity and opportunity. I would like to hear her talk on those things, but i think the yellow light is flashing and will leave it there. Nothing on the world series . No. Congresswoman. I think the Vice President comment about the Carter Mondale is an indication of it typifies his administration, as his administration looks backwards and forwards into the future. I must say the most tickled by their comments on the human rights. The soviet union in 1979 allowed 51,000 people to emigrate, because in large mentor measure, this Administration Policy of the last four years, 1313 people got out of the soviet union in 1983 1984. That is not a great record on human rights, its not. This administration has spent a trillion dollars on the fence, but it has not gotten a trillion dollars of national security. Vice president bush youre rebuttal. No rebuttal. We can then go to the closing statements, and each statement will be four minutes in length, we will begin with the Vice President. A couple of weeks where you the American People, will be faced in three weeks actually, youll be faced with a choice. Its a clear choice in some 50 years. The choices, do we move forward with strength, with prosperity or do we go back. Do we go back to weakness, despair and disrespect. Ronald reagan and i have put our trust in the American People, we have moved some of the power away from washington d. C. And put it back with the people. We are pulling together, the neighborhoods are safer because crime is going down. Your sons and daughters are doing better in school. Test scores are going up. There is a new opportunity flying out there in the future, science and technology and space offering opportunity to everybody. All the young ones coming up. And abroad, there is new leadership and respect. Ronald reagan, is clearly a strong leader of the free world. I will be honest with you, its a joy to serve with the president , who does not apologize for the United States of america. Mr. Mondale on the other hand, has one idea. Go out and tax the American People. Then he wants to repeal indexing, to wipe out the one protection that those of the lowest end of the economic stale have, and protecting them from the higher tax bracket. We owe our country too much, to go back to that kind of an approach. I would like to Say Something to young people, i started a business, and i know it is to have a dream, and have a job and work hard to employ others and to participate in the american dream. Some of you out there, are finishing high school or college, and some of you are starting out in the workplace, and we want for you, americas greatest gift and that is opportunity. And then piece yes i did serve in combat, i was shot when i was young kid i was scared to death. And i saw friends die. But that heighten my convictions about peace and it is absolutely essential, that we guarantee the young people that they will not know the agony of war. Americas gift, opportunity and peace and now we do have some Unfinished Business and we must continue to go ahead. The world is too complex, to go back to vacillation and weakness. Theres too much going on, to go back to the failed policies of the past. The future is too bright not to give it our best shot and together we can go forward and lift america up, to meet her greatest dreams thank you very much. Thank you very much i must say now, in matters of equity you will be allowed applause at the end of your closing statement. I hope somebody wants to applaud. So be the candidate for Vice President , my party its a greatest honor ive ever had. But is not only a personal achievement for geralding ferraro, and the bond i field as i go across this country. But i would not be standing here, if mondale didnt have the courage, and the values that my party stands for. Those values, make our country strong. And the future of this country how strong will be, thats what this election is all about. In the last two months ive been traveling all of the country talking to the people about the future. I was in kentucky and i spoke to a family, and he works as a car dealer. Hes worried about the deficits and how high Interest Rates are going to affect his job. Every place i go i see young parents, their children and they say to me what are we going to do to stop this Nuclear Arms Race . I was in, dayton ohio a week and a half ago and i sat with the alan family, who live next door to a toxic dump. And they are concerned about the fact that those toxics are seeping into the waters that them in their neighbors drink. These people love this country, they are patriotic, and its not the patriotism that you are seeing in the commercials as you watch television these days, their patriotism is not only a pride of the country as it is, but a pride in this country that is Strong Enough to meet the challenges of the future. Do you know when we find jobs, for the eighth half Million People who are unemployed in this country, and we make our economy stronger, and that will be a patriotic act. When we reduce the deficit, we cut Interest Rates, and i know the president doesnt believe that but we cut those Interest Rates, young people can buy houses. Thats pro family. That will be a patriotic act. And we educate our children, good lord theyre going to be able to complete to compete in the world economy, that makes a stronger. Thats a patriotic act. When we stop the arms race, and make this a safer place and thats a patriotic act and when we keep the peace young men dont die. And thats a patriotic act. Those are the key to the future, and who could be the leader for the future. When Walter Mondale was attorney general in minnesota, he led the fight for a man who could not afford to get justice because he could afford a lawyer. When he was in the senate, he fought for child nutrition programs. He wrote the fair housing act. He even investigated, the concerns and abuses of Migrant Workers, so why did he do that those are popular causes. No one had ever heard of law and children do not vote, and Migrant Workers arent a powerful lobby in this country, but he did it because it was right. Fits mondale with said had said he would rather lose a battle over decency, than win one over self interest. I agree with him. This campaign, is not over. For our country, for a future and for the principles we believe in, Walter Mondale and i have just begun to fight. Thank you very much, and i would like to thank Vice President bush, congresswoman ferraro. And members of our panel. For joining us in this league of women voters debate. I would like to join you, in thanking them at the city of philadelphia, and a league of women voters, the lead of women voters next debate, will take place in kansas city, on october 21st. The subject will be foreign affairs, and it will begin at 8 pm eastern time. Again our thanks, and we hope you will join us on the 21st. Thank you. In 1988 them quail, and democratic Vice President lloyd benson debated in omaha nebraska. A panel of journalist asked questions to the candidates. I am pleased to welcome you to the Vice President ial debate im Judy Woodruff of p. B. S. Is Macneil Lehrer news hour. And frontline. My colleagues on the panel are. John margolis of the chicago tribune. Tom brokaw of n. B. C. News. And brit hume of a. B. C. News. The importance of tonights debate is