Building infrastructure over the next ten years. Its not easy to do if you dont have to pick up a 30 million tab to defend your country. The European Community is in a position to pay a lot more than they have in the past. I agree with the president. And for us to bring the money back and here and we can only be a super power if were an economic superpower. One minute, sir. I agree with the general statement. I disagree we need 150,000 troops to fulfill our role in europe. We must maintain an engagement there. Theres dangers there. Theres other trouble spots in the world, which are closer to europe than the United States. But two former defense secretaries recently issued reports saying that 100,000 or slightly fewer troop troops would be enough. We have to do things that are costly and i dont believe nor do we need to keep 150,000 troops in europe given how much the red army under the control of russia has been cut. The arms control agreement concluded between mr. Push. I dont think we need 150,000 troops. Mr. Bush talked about tactses. He . All right. We go for a two minute question and it will be asked by john. Its 10 cents a year. Because of this tax. Why do we have to do it . We have mismanaged our country over the years and its time to time to pay it. If we dont, well be spending our childrens money. These young people when they get out of this Wonderful University will have difficulty finding the job. Weve got to clean this mess up. Leave this country in good shape, and pass on the American Dream to them. Weve got to collect the taxes to do it. Its there a fair way, im all ears. [ laughter ] see let me make it clear. People dont have the stomach to fix the problems, i think its time to face it in november. If they do, then theyll learn the harsh reality of what we have to do. Im not playing large folk music to be the. Governor clinton, you have a minute, sir. I think in perot has confronted this deficit issue but i think its important to point out we have two deficits in america. Not one. We have a budget deficit in the federal government but we also have an investment, a jobs within ab income deficit. People are working harder for less money than they were making ten years ago. Twothirds of our people. The 1600 drop in average income in the last two years. The problem i have with the prescription is that almost all economists who have looked at it say if you cut the deficit this much, this quick, it will increase unemployment. It will slow down the economy. Thats why i think we shouldnt do it that quickly. We have a disciplined reduction in the deficit of 50 over the next four years. First, get incentives to invest in this economy, put the American People back to work. We have to invest in growth. I dont think we need to do it. I have a fundamental difference. I agree with what hes talking about in trying to get the spending down and the discipline. I think we ought to expect Social Security. I disagree with the tax and spend philosophy. You see, i dont think we need to tax more and spend more than say thats going to make the problem better. I believe you need to control the growth of mandatory spending and get taxes down. Hes mentioned some ways to do it. I agree with those. Ive been talking about getting a Capital Gains cut and his friends in congress are telling me its a tax break for the rich. The first question to president bush for two minutes and john will ask the question. Last month you came to st. Louis to announce a lucrative contract for Mcdonald Douglas to build f15s for saudi arabia. In todays post dispatch, a retired sales woman, a 75yearold woman named marriage ri roberts asked if she could ask a question of the candidates, said she wanted to register her concern about the lack of a plan to convert our defense Oriented Industries into other purposes. How would you answer her . Well, i assume she was supportive of the decision on Mcdonald Douglas. I assume she was supporting me on the decision to sell those airplanes. I think its a good decision. I took a little heat for it, but i think it was the correct decision to do. And we worked it out. And indeed, were moving forward all around the world in a much more peaceful way. That one we came away with in creating jobs for the American People. I would simply say to her, look at what the president is proposing on job retraining. When you cut back on defense spending, some people are going to be thrown out of work. If you throw another 50,000 kids on the street because of cutting recklessly and troop levels, youll put a lot more out of work. I would say to them, look at the job retraining programs that were proposing. Therein is the best answer to her. And another one is, stimulate investment in savings. Weve got big economic problems. But we are not coming apart at the seams. Were ready for a recovery, with Interest Rates down, and inflation down, the cruelest tax of all caught up in a global slowdown right now, but that will change if you go with the programs ive talked about, and if you help with job retraining, and education. I am a Firm Believer that our america 2000 education problem is the answer. A little longer run. Going to take a while to educate, but it is a good program. So her best hope for short term is job retraining, if she was thrown out of work at a defense plant. But tell her its not all that gloomy. Were the United States. We face tough problems before. Look at the misery index when the democrats had both the white house and the congress. It was just right through the roof. Now, we can do better. The way to do better is not to tax and spend, but to retrain, get back control of the mandatory spending programs. Im much more optimistic about this country than some. [ applause ] mr. Perot . You have one minute, sir. The sooner they start, the sooner they finish, and there will be a significant transition. Its very important that we not continue to let our Industrial Base deteriorate. We have someone who im sure regrets said it, in the president s staff said he didnt care whether we made computer chips or potato chips. You make more making computer chips than potato chips. 19 out of 20 computer chips we have in this country now come from japan. Weve given away whole industries. As we phase these industries out, there is a lot of intellectual talent in these industries. Captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2008 what is it going to cost . In six years, the College Program will cost 3 million. We pay 1 billion in bank fees. The net cost will be 8 billion and 1 trillion budget. All the other stuff costs much less. The head start would cost about 5 billion more. It is all covered in my budget from the plans that i have laid out from raising taxes with families of incomes above 200,000 and asking Foreign Corporations to pay the same american corporations do on the same income. From 140 billion in budget cuts in the defense budget. Mr. Pareau, on state. Public schools exist for the benefit of the children. You are going to see a lot of people fall over. Any time you are spending 199 billion a year, somebody is getting it and the children get lost in the process. Keep in mind, in 1960 when our schools were the envy of the world, we were spending 16 billion. Now, we spend 199 billion and rank at the bottom of the industrialized world in terms of educational achievement. You have bought a front row box seattle and got a third rate performance. By and large, it should be local. Small towns have good schools, big cities have terrible schools. The best people in the small town will serve on the school board. You get in the big cities, it is political patronage, stepping stone. You get the job and give your relatives the janitors job at 57,000 a year and with luck, they clean the cafeteria once a week. You are paying for that. Those schools belong to you. We put up with that. These folks are just dividing 199 billion and the children get lost. If i could wish for one thing, a Strong Family unit in every home. Nothing will replace that. What are you going to do about that . The white house is a bully pulpit. The most efficient unit of government the world will ever know is a strong, loving, family unit. The next thing, you need small schools, not a big school. A big school, everybody is somebody. These big factories, everybody told me, they were cost effective. They are cost ineffective. 5,000 students, why is a high school that big . 11 more boys that can run like the devil and weigh 250 pound. They might win district. That has nothing to do with learning. Across texas, half the day was nonacademic fur suits. You could have unlimited access in texas to go to livestock shows. A boy in houston kept a chicken in the bathtub and missed 65 days going to livestock shows. He finally had to come back to school. The chicken lost his feathers. Thats your tax money being wasted. Neighborhood schools, it is terrible to bus tiny little children across town. It is particularly terrible to take poor tiny little children and wait until the first grade and bus them across the town it mars where the children know their letters and numbers and have had advantage. The little child wants out. We have to have world class teachers and books. If you ever got close to how textbooks were selected, you wouldnt want to go back the second time. I dont have time to tell you the stories. New yorks you dont. Finally, if we dont fix this, you are right, we cant have the industries of tomorrow without the best educated workforce. You have to have Early Childhood development, cheapest money you will spend. First contact with the mother when she is pregnant. That little child needs to be hugged and loved and think of special like your children were. Within the first few years, they learn how to learn or dont learn how to learn and if they dont, they wind up in prison and it costs more to keep them in prison than it does to send them to harvard. I rest my case. President bush, you wanted to ask something. I had a word of clarification. My School Choice program, g. I. Bill for kids does not take public money and give it to private schools. It does what the g. I. Bilets self does . It takes public money and gives it to families or individuals to choose the school they want. Where it has been done, those schools like in rochester, those schools that werent chosen find that they then compete and do better. I think it is worth a shot. We have a pilate program. It ought to be tried, School Choice, public, private, or religious, not to the schools but 46 of the teachers in chicago, Public School teachers, send their kids to private school. We ought to try to help families and see if it will do what i think, make all schools mention. I want to mention very briefly. Involving the parents in the preschool education of their kids, even they are poor and uni had kated can make a huge difference. We have a big program in my state that teaches mothers or fathers to teach their kids to get ready tore school. It is the most successful thing we have ever done. We do not spend a higher percentage of our income on Public Education. There are nine country that is spend more than we do on Public Education. We spend more on education, because we spend so much more on colleges. If you look at Public Education alone and you take into account we have more racial diversity and more poverty, it makes a big difference. There are great Public Schools where there is Public School of choice, accountability and brilliant principles. I will mention one, the beasley academic in chicago. It is as good as any private school in the country. We have very little time left. Ill be asking for support to get it put into effect. All right. The next question goes to governor clinton for two minute thes asked by sandy. When a president running for the first time gets into the office, he wants to do something about the economy. He finds in washington theres a person who has much more power over the economy than he does. Somehow more accountable to elected officials . Let me say that i think that i ought to review the terms the way it works but, frankly, i dont think thats a problem today. Given the condition was economy, well keep Interest Rates down if we have the discipline to increase discipline and reduce the debt at the same time. Give me a chance to do that. I dont have to worry, i dont think, in the near term about their Federal Reserves. Their policies, so far, it seems to me are pretty sound. You have one minute. I dont think the fed ought to be put under the executive branch. Theres separation there. I think thats fine. Alan greenspan is respected. If the markets went down like that. I dont think we can the stock market has been strong im going to protect the american taxpayer and keep on vetoing him. I dont think were taxed too little. I think the government is spending too much. Government clinton can label it tax for the rich or anything he wants, im going to protect the working man by continuing to veto and threaten veto until we get the new congress and move forward on our plan. Keep the Federal Reserve independent but we live in a global economy. Not a national economy. These Interest Rates we have now dont make any sense. That gap is going to close because the arabs and the japanese and folks in this country will buy more german treasuries bauts because they can get more money. Every time the Interest Rates go up 1 , that adds 28 billion to the deficit or to the debt, whichever place you want to put it. We are set sitting on a ticking bomb, folks. We have totally mismanaged our country and we had better get it back under control. Just think in your own business if you had all of your longterm financed short term. You would go broke in a hurry. All right. Were going it move move to Foreign Affairs. The first question to mr. Perot for a two minute answer. In the post war environment, what should be the overriding u. S. National interest and what can the United States do and what can it afford to do to defend that National Interest . Well, again, if youre not rich, youre not a super power. We have two that i put as number one. One is weve got to have the money to be able to pay for defense. And weve got to manufacture here, believe it or not, folks, you cant ship it overseas. You have to make it here. You cant convert from potato chips to an airplane in an emergency. We all have kinds of agreements on paper and some are executed on getting rid of nuclear warheads. Russia and are the republics are out of control. We need to nail down the intercontinental ballistic missiles. The ones that can hit us from russia. We have some agreements on the nuclear but we dont have those things put away yet. The sooner the better. To become capitalistic societies and not just sit back and let them continue in turmoil because they could go back to where things used to be. In order to keep america the strongest nation in the world, we need some continuity and some change. The smaller Permanent Military force but one that is more mobile, well trained with High Technology equipment. We need to continue the negotiations to reduce the Nuclear Arsenals in the soviet union and the United States. We have to face in World Economic security is a lot of national security. Our dollars are at an all time low against some foreign currencies. Were weak in the world. We must rebuild americas strength at home. Finally, we ought to be promoting the democratic impulses around the world. President bush, one minute. We still are the enemy of the world in terms of our military. No question about that. Were the envy of the world in terms of our economy. Theres no question about that. Our exports are dramatically up. I might say, with i can understand why you might have missed it because theres so much fascination by trivia but i worked out a deal to eliminate, get rid of entirely the most destabilizing weapons of all. The ss 18. I mean, thats been done. Thank god it has. The parents of these young people go to bed tonight without the same fear of nuclear war. The freedom support act does what you say. I think you agree with that to help russian democracy. Were going to keep on doing that. Governor clinton, you accused the president of coddling tyrants including those in beijing. How would you exert u. S. Power to influence affairs in china . I think our relationships with china are important and i dont think we want to isolate china but i think it is a mistake for us to do what this administration did when all those kids went out there carrying the statute of liberty. Mr. Bush sent two people in secret to toast the chinese leaders and basically tell them not to worry about it. They rewarded him by opening negotiations with iran to transfer nuclear technology. That was their response to that sort of action. Now that the voices in the congress and throughout the country have insisted that we do something about china, look what happened. China has not only agreed to stop sending us products made with prison labor, not because we coddle them but because the administration was pushed into doing something about it and recently the chinese have announced theyre going to lower some barriers to our products, which they ought to do since they have a 15 billion trade surplus with the United States under mr. Bush. The second biggest surplus of all. Second to japan. Sovereign human rights in the future. Open your society. Recognize the legitimacy of those kids carrying the statute of liberty. If we can stand up for the economic interests, we ought to presume the democratic interests of the people in china and over the long run theyll be more reliable partners. [ applause ] were the ones that worked out the prison labor deal, i am the one that said lets keep the mfn because you china moving toward a free market economy to do what the congress and governor clinton is suggesting you isolate and ruin hong kong. They are making some progress. Not enough for us. We were the first to put sanctions on. We still have them on on some things. But governor clintons flolgs if i is isolated. He said dont do it but the policies hes expounding and putting conditions on mfn and humiliating them is not the way you make progress we are getting. Its moving but you isolate china and turn them inward and weve made a tremendous mistake. Im not going to do it and ive had to fight a lot of people that were saying human rights. Were the ones that put the sanctions on and stood for it. They didnt go over to coddle. He went to say you must make the changes youre making now. [ applause ] one minute. Its a huge china is a huge country. It has some very elderly leaders that will not be around for too much longer. Capitalism is growing and thriving across big portions of china. Asia will be our largest trading partner in the future. It will be a growing relationship. We have a delicate tight wire of a walk that we must go through at the present time to make sure that we do not cozy up to tyrants to make sure they dont get the impression that they can suppress their people. Time is our friend there. Their leaders will change and not too many years worst case. Their country is making great progress. One last point on the missiles. We have a huge number of missiles in place in russia. The fact you have an agreement is one thing. Until theyre destroyed, some crazy person can sell them or use them. Next question for a two minute answer and anne will ask it. How can you watch the killing in bosnia and the ethnic cleansing 0 or the starvation of an czar i can in somalia and not want to use americas might, if not americas military to try to end that kind of suffering . Both of them are complicated situations. And i vowed something because i learned something from vietnam. Im not going to commit u. S. Forces until i know what the mission is, until the military tells me it can be completed, until i know how they can come out. We are helping. American airplanes are helping today on human tear relief. It is america that is in the lead and helping with humanitarian relief for somalia. When you go to put somebody elses son or daughter into war, i think you got to be a little bit careful and you have to have be sure theres a military plan that can do this. You have ancient ethnic rivalries that have cropped up as using involve ya dissolved or getting i did solved. It wont be solved by sending in the 82nd airborne. Im not going to do that as kmanlder in chief. I am going to standby and use the moral persuasion of the United States to get satisfaction in terms of prison camps and were making some progress there. And in terms of getting humanitarian relief in there. The United States took a relief in the no fly operation a no fly order up in the United Nations. Were working through the international organizations. The United States thats one thing i learned by forging that tremendous and highly successful coalition against saddam hussein, the dictator. Work internationally to do it. Im concerned about it. Im concerned about ethnic cleans. Im concerned about a tax on muslims over there. I must stop short of using American Force until i know how the young men and women are going to get out of there as well as get in. Know what the mission is and define it. And i think im on the right track. If we learned nick in vietnam, commit the nation before you commit the troops to the battle field. We cannot send our people all over the world this is basically a problem that is the primary concern to the European Community. Certainly we care about the people. We care about the children. We care about the tragedy. But it is inappropriate for us just because theres a problem somewhere around the world to take the sons and daughters of working people who make no mistake about it, our allvolunteered arm force is not made up of sons and daughters of beautiful people, its working folks that send their sons and daughters to war. Its very important that we not just without thinking it through just rush to every problem in the world and have our people torn to pieces. Governor clinton, one minute. I agree we cannot commit Ground Forces to become involved in the quagmire of boss niknee dwra or somalia. Its important to recognize that there are things that can be done short of that and that we do have interests there. There are, after all, 2 million refugees now because of the problems in what was yugoslavia. The largest number since world war ii. There may be hundreds of thousands people who will stavr or freeze to death in this winter. The United States should try to work with the allies and stop. I urge the president to support this air cover and he did and i applaud that. I applaud the nofly zone and i know hes going back to the United Nations to try to get authority to enforce it. I think we should stiffen the embargo on the bahrain government and i think we have to consider whether or not we should lift the arms embargo now on the bosnians since they are, in no way, in a fair fight with a heavily armed opponent bent on ethnic cleansing. We cant get involved in the quagmire but must do what we can. The first question goes to governor clinton for two minutes and anne will ask it. Governor clinton, can you tell us what your definition of the word family is. A family involves at least one parent, whether natural or adoptive, or and children. A good family is a place where love and discipline and good values are transmuted from the elders to the children. Places where people turn for refuge and where they know theyre the most important people in the world. Theres been a lot of talk about family values in this campaign. I know about that. I was born to a widowed mother who gave me family values. Ive seen the family values of my people in arkansas. Ive seen the family values of all the people in america out there killing themselves working harder for less. In a country that had the worst economic years in 50 years in the first decline in Industrial Production ever. I think the president owes it to family values to show he values americas families. Whether there are people on welfare, youre trying to move from welfare to the work or the working or poor who i think deserves a tax break, if they have is a child in the house. Working 40 hours a week. Working families who deserve a fair tax system in the opportunity for constant retraining. They deserve a strong economy. And i think they deserve a family medical leave act. 72 other nations have been able to do it. Mr. Bush vetoed it twice because he said we cant do something 72 other countries do, even though there was a Small Business exemption. All the talk about family values, i know about family values. I wouldnt be here without them. The best expression of my family values is that tonight is my 17th wedding anniversary and i would like to close the question by wishing my wife a happy anniversary and thanking my daughter for being here. [ applause ] one meeting that made a profound impression on me when the mayors of the big cities, including the mayor of los angeles, a democrat, came to see me and they unanimously said the decline in urban america stems from the decline in the american family. So i do think we need to strengthen family. What barbara holds a baby, she saw a certain compassion for family when she reads to children. The same thing. I believe that discipline and respect for the law all of these things should be taught to children. Not in our schools but families have to do that. Hooichl appalled at the highest, outrageous numbers of divorces. It happens in families. It happened in our ours but its gotten too much. And i think we ought to do everything we can to respect the american family. It can be a singleparent family. Those mothers need help and one way to do is to get the deadbeat fathers to pay their obligations to these mothers. Thatll help strengthen the american family. Theres a bunch of other things i cant click off in this short period of time. All right. Mr. Perot, one minute. If i had to solve all the problems that face this country, and i could be granted one wish, is we started down the trail to rebuild the job base, the schools, and so on and so forth, i would say a Strong Family unit in every home. Where every child is loved, nurtured, and encouraged. A little child before theyre 18 months learns to think well of himself or herself or poorly. They develop a positive or negative self image. At a early age, they learn how to learn. If we have children who are not surrounded with love and affection, see, i look at my grandchildren and wonder if theyll learn to walk because theyre in someones arms. I think wouldnt it be wonderful if every child had that love and support but they dont. We will not be a great country unless we have a Strong Family unit in every home and i think you can use the white house as a bull by pulpit to stress the importance of the children, particularly in their young and informative years, to mold the precious pieces of clay so they can live rich, full lives. [ applause ] new question. Two minute answer goes to president bush. Mr. President , theres been a lot of talk about harry truman. He the thing he didnt have to deal with is drugs. Americans are increasingly alarmed about drugrelated crimes in cities and suburbs. And your administration is not the first to have grappled with this. And are you at all of the mind maybe you ought to go to another level, if not what is advocated by William Buckley jr. And legalization but somewhere between there and where we are now. No. I dont think thats the right answer. I dont believe legalizing narcotics is the answer. I just dont believe thats the answer. I do believe that there is some fairly good news out there. The use of cocaine, for example, by teenagers is dramatically down. We have to keep fighting on this war against drugs. Were doing a little better in interdiction. Many of the countries below that use to say well this is the United States problem. You get the demand down, then we wouldnt have the problem are working cooperatively with the dea and other the armed military. Were using the military more now in terms of interdiction. Our funding for recovery is up. Where were not making the progress is were making it in teenagers. Thank god because i thought when ross said was most appropriate about the families and the children. But where were not making it is with the confirmed addicts. And ill tell you one place that is working well and that is the private sector. I tell the American People but this man said ill get you 1 million a day in pro bono advertising. Something that is hard for the government to do and he went out and did it. People are beginning to educate through this Program Teaching these kids you shouldnt use drugs. So were still in the fight but i must tell you, i think legalization of narcotics or something of that nature in the face of the medical evidence would be totally counter productive. And i oppose it and im going to stand up and continue to oppose it. [ applause ] go to a neonatal unit, if you can get in. Between 100 to 200 upanddown the east coast. Babies in the hospital 42 days. Typical cost to us is 152,000. Again and again the mother zb r disappears for three days and the child becomes a ward of the state because hes permanently and genetically damaged. Look at those little children. If anybody can even think about legalizing drugs, theyve lost me. Lets look at priorities. You know, we went on remember that one . Because we were worried to death that gadhafi might be building out chemical weapons. Weve got Chemical Warfare being conducted against our children on the streets of this country all day every day and we dont have the will to stand out. Again, if i get up there, if you send me, well have blunt talks about this and were going to get out of the trenches. And these wars arent going quit easy. [ applause ] governor clinton, one minute. I have held crack babies in my arms, but i know more about this, i think, than anybody else up here because i have a brother who is a recovering drug addict. Im very proud of him. I can tell you this, if drugs were legal, i dont think he would be alive today. I am adamantly opposed to legalizing drugs. He is alive today because of the criminal justice system. Thats a mistake. We ought to prevent more of this. Now there are thr we need 1000 more police on the street. I have a plan. Secondly, we ought to have treatment on demand. Thirdly, boot camp for first time nonviolent offenders. So they can get reconnected to the community before theyre severed and sent to prison. Theres a crime bill that was blocked from passage, once again, mostly by republicans 234 the United States senate, which would have addressed some of these problems. That crime bill will be one of my highest priorities next january, if i become president. [ applause ] next we to you. You have two minutes to answer. Racial division continues to tear apart our great cities. The last episode being this spring in los angeles. Why is this still happening in america . What would you do to end it . This is relevant question here tonight. First thing i do is during political campaigns, i would urge everybody to try t stop trying to split the country and appeal to the differences between us and wonder why the melting pot is broken to pieces after november 3rd. [ applause ] woe are all in this together. We ought to love one another because if we cant love one another, we ought to get along with one another. You cant get there just recognize were all stuck with one another because nobody is going anywhere. Right. Now that ought to get everybody back up to lets get along and make it work. Our diversity is a strength. Weve turned it into a weakness. Again, the white house is is a bully pull bit. I think whoever is in the kwhous should make it unconscionable and inexcusable. If anybody is in the middle of a speech at at one of these conventions, i would expect the candidate to be out and if he starts preaching hate. Because we dont have time for it. See, our differences are our strengths. We have got to pull together. We know it in athletics. Divided teams lose. United teams win. We have to unit and pull together and theres nothing we cant do but if we sit around blowing this energy out the window on racial strife and hatred, we are stuck with a sheer loser. Because we have been a melting pot. Were becoming more and more of a melting pot. Lets make it a strength. Not a weakness. [ applause ] governor clinton, one minute. I grew up in the segregated south. Thankfully raised by a grandfather with almost no formal education but with a heart of gold who taught me early that all people were equal in the eyes of god. I saw the winds of hatred divide people and keep the people of my state poorer than they would have been, spiritually and economically, and ive done everything i could in my public life to overcome racial divisions. We dont have a person to waste in this country. Were being murdered economically because we have too many dropouts, too low birth weight babies, too much drug addicts. Were too divided. I have a devoted a major portion of this campaign to going across this country and looking for opportunities to go to white groups and africanamerican groups and latino groups, asianamerican groups and say the same thing. If the American People cannot be brought together, we cannot turn the country around. If we can come together, nothing can stop us. [ applause ] mr. President , one minute. Well, i think governor clinton is committed. I do think its fair to note he can rebut it but arkansas is one of the one states that doesnt have any civil rights legislation. Ive tried to use the white house as the bully pulpit speaking out against discrimination. We have passed two very forwardlooking civil rights bills. Its not going to be all done by legislation. But i think you need to make an appeal every time you can to eliminate racial divisions and discrimination. Ill keep on doing that and pointing to some legislative accomplishment to back it out. I have to take ten seconds here. The red light isnt on yet. To say to ross perot, please dont say to the dea agents on the street. We dont have the will to fight drugs. Please i have watched these people. The same for our local Law Enforcement people who are backing up in every way we can but maybe you meant that some of the country dont have the will to fight it but those out there on the front line, as you know, youre a strong backer of Law Enforcement, really, i want to clear that up. Have the will to fight it and, frankly, some of them are giving their lives. Time, mr. President. Lets go to another subject. The subject of health. The first question for two minutes is to president bush and john will ask it. Mr. President , yesterday tens of thousands of people paraded past the your commission Magic Johnson quipped saying that there was too much inaction. Where is this widespread feeling coming from that your administration is not doing enough about a. I. D. S. . Coming from the political process. We have increased funding for a. I. D. S. Weve doubled it. Research, and on every other aspect of it. My request for this year was 4. 9 billion for a. I. D. S. Ten times as much for a. I. D. S. Victim as for cancer victim. Were showing the proper compassion and concern. So i cant tell you where its coming from. But i am very much concerned about a. I. D. S. And i believe that weve got the best researchers in the world out there at nih working the problem. Were funding them. I wish there was more money but were funding them far more than any time in the past and were going to keep on doing that. I dont know, i was a little disappointed in magic because he came to me and i said if you see something were not doing, get a hold of me, call me, let me know. He went to one meeting and then we heard that he was stepping down. So hes been replaced by mary fisher, who electrified the Republican Convention by talking about the compassion and the concern that we feel. It was a beautiful moment and i think shell do a first class job on that commission. So i think the appeal is, yes, we care. The other thing is, part of a. I. D. S. , its one of the few diseases where behavior matters. And i once called on somebody, well change your behavior, in the behavior youre using, prone to cause a. I. D. S. , change the behavior. Next thing i know one of these act up groups is out saying bush ought to change his behavior. You cant talk about it rationally. The extremes are hurting the a. I. D. S. Cause. To go into a catholic mass and a beautiful cathedral in new york under the cause of helping in a. I. D. S. And start throwing condoms around in the mass, im sorry, i think it sets back the cause. We cannot move to the extreme. Weve got to care. Weve got to continue everything we can at the federal and the local level. Barbara, i think, is doing a superb job in destroying the myth about a. I. D. S. And all of us are in this fight together, all of us care. Do not go to the extreme. One minute, mr. Perot. First, i think mary fisher was a great choice, were lucky to have her heading the commission. Secondly, i think one thing that if i were sent to do the job i would sit down with the fda and look exactly where we are and then i would really focus on lets get these things out. If youre going to die you dont have to go through this tenyear cycle that fda goes through on new drugs. Believe me, people with a. I. D. S. Are more than willing to take that risk and we could be moving out through the human population a whole lot faster than we are on some of these new drugs. So i would i think we can expedite the problem there. Go back a minute to racial divisiveness. All time low in our country was the judge Thomas Anita Hill hearings and those senators ought to be hanging their heads in shame for what they did there. Second thing, not many times in your life when you get to talk to the whole country. But let me just say this to all of america if you hate people, i dont want your vote. Thats how strongly i feel about it. Governor clinton, one minute. Over 150,000 americans have died of a. I. D. S. , well over a million and a quarter of americans are hiv positive. We need to put one person in charge of the battle against a. I. D. S. To cut across all the agencies that deal with it. We need to accelerate the drug approval process. We need to fully fund the name for that wonderful boy ryan white to make sure were doing everything we can on research and treatment. And the president should lead a National Effort to change behavior, to keep our children alive in the schools. Responsible behavior to keep people alive this is a matter of life and death. Ive worked in my state to reduce teen pregnancy and illness among children and i know its tough. But reason Magic Johnson resigned from the a. I. D. S. Commission is because the statement you heard from mr. Bush is the longest and best statement hes made about it in public. Im proud about im proud of what we did at the democratic convention, putting two hiv positive people on the platform, and im proud of the leadership that im going to bring to this country in dealing with the a. I. D. S. Crisis. New question for mr. Perot. You have two minutes to answer, and ann will ask it. Mr. Perot, even if youve got what people say are the guts to take on changes in the most popular and the most sacred of the entitlements medicare people say you havent a prayer of getting anything passed in washington. Since a president isnt a lone ranger how can you make those unpopular changes . Two ways, number one, if i get there, it will be a very unusual and historical event because the people because the people, not the special interests, put me there. I will have a unique mandate. I have said again and again, and this really upsets the establishment in washington, that were going to inform the people in detail on the issues through an electronic town hall so that they really know whats going on. They will want to do whats good for our country. Now, all these fellas with thousand dollar suits and alligator shoes running up and down the halls of congress that make policy now, theyll be over there in the smithsonian, you know. Because were going to get rid of them. And the congress will be listening to the people and the American People are willing to have fair shared sacrifice. Theyre not as stupid as washington thinks they are. The American People are bright, intelligent, caring, loving people who want a great country for their children and grandchildren. And they will make those sacrifices. So i welcome that challenge. And just watch, because if the American People send me there, well get it done. Now, everybody will faint in washington. Theyve never seen anything happen in that town. This is a town where the White House Says Congress did it, Congress Says the white house did it. And im sitting there and saying who else could be around . You know, then when they get off by themselves they said nobody did it and yet the Cash Register is empty and it used to have our money, the taxpayers money in it and we didnt get the results. Well get it done. Governor, one minute. Ross, thats a great speech but its not quite that simple. I mean, look at the facts. Both parties in washington, the president and the congress, have cut medicare. The average Senior Citizen is spending a higher percentage of income on health care today than they were in 1965 before medicare came in. President s got another proposal to require them to pay 400 a year more for the next five years. But if you dont have the guts to control costs by changing the insurance system, and taking on the bureaucracies and the regulation of health care and the private and public sector, you cant fix this problem. Costs will continue to spiral. And just remember this, folks, a lot of folks on medicare are out there every day making the choice between food and medicine. Not poor enough for medicare. Medicaid. Not wealthy enough to buy their medicine. Ive met them, people like mary annie and ed dee davis in nashua, new hampshire, all over this country, they cant even buy medicine. When we talk about Cutting Health care costs lets talk about Insurance Companies and people making a killing instead of making our people healthy. One minute, president bush. Well, first place id like to clear up something. Because every four years the democrats go around and say, hey, republicans are going to cut Social Security and medicare. They started it again. Im the president that stood up and said dont mess with Social Security. And im not going to. And we havent. And we are not going to go after the Social Security recipient. I have one difference with mr. Perot on that. I dont think we need to touch Social Security. What we do need to do, though, is control the growth of these mandatory programs. And ross properly says, okay, theres some pain in that. But governor clinton refuses to touch that, simply refuses. So what weve got to do is control it to the growth, let it grow for inflation, let it grow for the amount of new people added, population. And then hold the line. And i believe that is the way you get the deficit down, not by the tax and spend program, that we hear every four years, whether its mondale, dukakis, whoever else it is, i just dont believe we ought to do that. So hold the line on Social Security, and put a cap on the growth of the mandatory program. New question, it is for governor clinton, twominute answer, sandy will ask it. Governor clinton, ann compton has brought up medicare. I remember in 1965, when wilbur mills of arkansas, the chairman of ways and means was pushing it through the congress, the charge against it was its socialized medicine. Mr. Bush that he hmade that where i first met him. The second point, though, is that it is now skyrocketing out of control. People want it. We say its going bonkers. Is not the oregon plan applied to medicaid rationing the proper way to go, even though the federal government last august ruled that violated the americans with disabilities act of 1990 . Well, i thought the oregon plan should at least have been allowed to be tried because at least the people in oregon were trying to do something. But let me go back to the main point, sandy. Mr. Bush is trying to run against Lyndon Johnson and jimmy carter and everybody in the world but me in this race. I have proposed a managed competition plan for health care. I will say again, you cannot control Health Care Costs, simply by cutting medicare. Look whats happened. The federal government has cut medicare, and medicaid in the last few years, states have cut medicaid. Weve done it in arkansas, under budget pressures. But what happens . More and more people get on the rolls as poverty increases, if you dont control the Health Care Costs of the entire system, you cannot get control of it. Look at our program. We set up a National Ceiling on Health Care Costs, tied to inflation, and population growth, set by health care providers, not by the government. We provide for managed competition, not government models in every state. And we control private and public Health Care Costs. Now, just a few days ago a Bipartisan Commission of republicans and democrats, more republicans than democrats, said my plan will save the average family 1,200 a year more than the bush plan will by the year 2000. 2. 2 trillion in the next 12 years. 400 billion a year by the end of this decade. Ive got a plan to control Health Care Costs. But you cant just do it by cutting medicare. You have to take on the Insurance Companies. The bureaucracies and you have to have cost controls, yes, but keep in mind we are spending 30 more on health care than any country in the world, any other country. And yet we have 35 Million People uninsured, we have no preventative and primary care. The oregon plan is a good start. If the federal government is going to continue to abandon its responsibilities. I say if germany can cover everybody and keep costs under inflation, if hawaii with cover 98 of their people at lower Health Care Costs than the rest of us, if rochester, new york can do it with twothirds of the costs to the rest of us. America can do it too. Im tired of being told we cant. I say we can, we can do better and we must. President bush, one minute. Well, i dont have time in 30 seconds, or whatever minute to talk about our Health Care Reform plan. Oregon plan made some good sense, but its easy to dismiss the concerns of the disabled. As president i have to be sure that those waivers, which were approving all over the place, are covered under the law. Maybe we can work it out. But the americans for disabilities act, speaking about sound and sensible civil rights legislation, was the foremost piece of legislation passed in modern times. And so we do have something more than a technical problem. Governor clinton clicked off the things youve got to take on Insurance Companies and bureaucracies. He failed to take on somebody else. The malpractice suit people, those that bring these lawsuits against these frivolous trial lawyers lawsuits that are running the cost of medicare care up by 25 billion to 50 billion and he refuses to put anything, controls on these crazy lawsuits. If you want to help somebody, dont run the costs up by making doctors have to have five or six tests where one would do for fear of being sued or have somebody along the highway not stop to pick up a guy and help him because hes afraid a trial lawyer will come alone and sue him. Were suing each other too much and caring for each other too little. Mr. Perot, one minute. Weve got the most Expensive Health care system in the world. Ranks behind 15 other nation. When we come to life expectancy. In 22 other nations, when we come to infant mortality. We dont have the best. Pretty simple, folks, if youre paying more and you dont have the best, if all else fails go copy the people who have the best who spend less, right . Well, we can do better than that. Again, weve got plans lying all over the place in washington. Nobody ever implements them. Im back to square one if you want to stop talking about it and do it, then ill be glad to go up there and well get it done. But if you just want to keep the music going, just stay traditional this next time around and this four years from now youll have everybody blaming everybody else for bad health care system. Talk is cheap. Words are plentiful. Deeds are precious. Lets get on with it. And thats exactly what were going to do. That was, in fact, the final question and answer. Were now going to move to closing statements. Each candidate there have up to two minutes. The order, remember, was determined by a drawing and mr. Perot, you were first. Oh, its been a privilege to be able to talk to the American People tonight. I made no bones about it. I love this country. I love the principal its founded on. I love the people here. I dont like the see the countrys principles violated. I dont like to see the people in a deteriorating economy and a deteriorating country because our government has lost touch with the people. The people in washington are good people. We just have a bad system. Weve got to change the system. Its time to do it because we have run up so much debt that time is no longer our friend. Weve got to put our house in order. When you go to bed tonight look at your children. Think of their dreams. Think of your dreams as a child. And ask yourself, isnt it time to stop talking about it . Isnt it time to stop creating images . Isnt it time to do it . Arent you sick of being treated like an unprogrammed robot . Every four years they send you all kinds of messages to tell you how to vote, and then go back to business as usual. They told you at the tax and budget summit that if you agreed to a tax increase they could balance the budget. That same year they increased spending 1. 33 for every dollar of increased taxes. Thats washington in a nutshell right there. Final analysis, im doing this for your children, when you look at them tonight, theres another group that i feel very close to and these are the men and women who fought on the battlefield, the children, the families of the ones who died, the people who left parts of their bodies over there, i never asked you to do anything for me but i owe you this and im doing it for you and i cant tell you what it means to me at these rallies when i see you, and you come up, and the look in your eyes, and i know how you feel and you know how i feel, and then i think of the older people who are retired. They grew up in the depression. They fought and won world war ii. We owe you a debt we can never repay you. The greatest repayment i can give is to recreate the American Dream for your children and grandchildren. Ill give it everything i have if you want me to do it. Governor clinton, your closing statement. Id like to thank the people of st. Louis and Washington University. The president ial Debate Commission and all those who made this night possible and id like to thank those of you who are watching. Most of all id like to thank all of you who have touched me in some way over this last year, all the thousands of you whom ive seen. Id like to thank the computer executives and the electronic executives this silicon valley, twothirds of whom are republicans who said they wanted to sign on to a change to create a new america. Id like to thank the hundreds of executives who came to chicago, a third of them republicans, who said they wanted to change. Id like to thank the people who started with mr. Perot, whove come on to help our campaign. Id like to thank all the folks around america that no one ever knows about, the woman who was holding the a. I. D. S. Baby she adopted in cedar rapids, iowa who asked me to do something more for adoption, the woman who stopped along the road in wisconsin and wept because her husband had lost his job after 27 years. All the people who are having a tough time and the people who are winning, but who know how desperately we need to change. This debate tonight has made Crystal Clear a challenge that is as old as america, the choice between hope and fear, change or more of the same. The courage to move into a new tomorrow, or to listen to the crowd who says things could be worse. Mr. Bush has said some very compelling things tonight that dont quite square with the record. He was president for three years before he proposed a Health Care Plan that still hasnt been sent to congress in total. Three years before an economic plan, and he still didnt say tonight that that tax bill he vetoed raises taxes only on the rich and gave the rest of you a break. But he vetoed it anyway. I offer a new direction. Invest in american jobs, american education, control Health Care Costs, bring this country together again. I want the future of this country to be as bright and brilliant as its past and it can be if we have the courage to change. President bush, your closing statement. Let me tell you a little what its like to be president. In the oval office you cant predict what kind of crisis is going to come up. You have to make tough calls. You cant be on one hand with this way and one hand another. You cant take different positions on these difficult issues. And then you need a philosophical i call it a philosophical underpinning. Mi mine for Foreign Affairs is democracy and freedom and look at the dramatic changes, cold war is over, soviet union is no more and were looking at a democratic country. The baltics are free. Take a look at the middle east. We had to stand up against a tyrant. The United States came together, as we havent in many, many years and we kicked this man out of kuwait. In the process as a result of that will and that decision and that toughness we now have ancient enemies talking peace in the middle east. Nobody would have dreamed it possible. And i think the biggest dividend of making these tough calls is the fact that we are less afraid of nuclear war. Every parent out there has much less worry that their kids are going to be faced with nuclear holocaust. All of this is good. On the domestic side what we must do is have change that empowers people. Not change for the sake of change, tax and spend. We dont need to do that anymore. What we need to do is empower people. We need to invest and save. We need to do better in education. We need to do better in job retraining. We need to expand our exports and theyre going very, very well indeed and we need to strengthen the american family. I hope, as president , that ive earned your trust. Ive admitted it when i make a mistake but then i go on and help try to solve the problems. I hope ive earned your trust because a lot of being president is about trust and character. And i ask for your support for four more years to finish this job. Thank you very, very much. Dont go away yet. I just i just want to i just want to thank the three panelists and thank the three candidates for participating. President bush, governor clinton and mr. Perot. They will appear again together on october the 15th and again on october 19th. The next tuesday there will be a debate among the three candidates for Vice President. And for now from Washington University in st. Louis, missouri im jim lara, thank you and good night. [ applause ]. We can nights this month were featuring American History tv programs as a preview of whats available every weekend on cspan3. Tonight a look at past Vice President ial debates starting with Vice President george h. W. Bush and representative geraldine ferraro. They debated a variety of issues, including abortion and the u. S. Economy. That starts at 8 00 eastern. Enjoy American History tv this week and every weekend on cspan3. American history tv on cspan3, exploring the people and the events that tell the american story every weekend. Coming up this weekend, saturday at 6 00 p. M. On the civil war, a look at how historical interpretation has changed over the years at National Historical park. At 10 00 p. M. Eastern on reel america, on the 75th anniversary of the United Nations, well feature four films, San Francisco 1945, the United Nations and world disputes, seeds of destiny, and army in action, the cobra strikes. On sunday at 11 00 a. M. Eastern the first president ial debate between president george h. W. Bush, bill clinton and texas businessman ross perot. At 6 00 p. M. Eastern on american artifacts, a discussion with the Jim Crow Museum of racist memorabilia in big rapids, michigan and why the offensive artifacts are being used as teaching tools to promote conversation and understanding. Exploring the american story. Watch American History tv this weekend on cspan3. The second 1992 president ial debate was a town hall format between the three candidates. President george bush, arkansas governor bill clinton, and independent candidate ross perot. Good evening, and welcome to this second of three president ial debates between the major candidates for president of the United States. The candidates are the republican nominee president george bush, the independent ross perot, and governor bill clinton the democratic nominee. My name is carol simpson