Transcripts For CSPAN3 The Contenders George McGovern 20240712

Cspan three. Brought to you today by your television provider. Many americans thought they were voting to bring our sons home from vietnam in peace and since then 20,000 of our sons have come home in coffins. I have no secret plan for peace. I have a public plan and as one whose heart has ached for the past temperature years over the agony of vietnam, i will halt the senseless bombing of china on inaugural day. It was 2 30 in the morning when George Mcgovern delivered his acceptance speech. He would lose badly to president Richard Nixon. Were live from the museum in mitche mitchell south dakota. Why is it 2 30 in the morning . The reason i think it was embl emblemmatic. And what happened was that as you heard the senator there, he was very, very strong on the issue of vietnam. One of the things that has drawn me is one of the most flufl of those that ran for the presidency but was not successful. I think he did two things. One he spoke about that war in ways that no president ial candidate had spoken before. It was very Strong Language that unset unsett unsettled a lot of americans. So it was the established democrats and there was a lot of conflict there that blaed over into the convention. There was floor fights. There was issues overiseeding te california delegation. And the Convention Just got out of hand for him. When it was time to accept the nomination it was 2 30 in the morning. So he only spoke to about 15 million americans so he said it was insomniacs or people that fell asleep in front of the tv. Were going to do a deep dive as well, first joining us here from our studios in washington, a political reporter, columnist, and author of the campaign for the los angeles times, featured prominently in tim crouses book on the bus. So tell us what is the atmosphere at the con frengs in 1972 . Skaugs. One of the reasons he gave the speech so late is that the fights continued to go on other various issues including the war in vietnam even though the platform had been adopted. And it played out the next morning, they had to decide who would be the Vice President. It was done in a very unsettling way. It lead to the most i did sas thousands part of the campaign. But in the Convention Hall that night, are the people with him . Are they still there . It is 2 30 in the morning. Yeah, the followers, many had never been to a convention before. As a result of new rules in selection of delegates, it was initiated on a commission. There was people that had not been to any convention. They had not been involved in pliblgs before then. It was, at any convention, staying up it is not unusual, anyway. But he was forced to give that very, very important speech so early in the morning. Scott, let me go back to you in mitchell, south dakota. What is happening in our country at this time in 1972 that leads to the triumph of an antiwar nomination. He quite literally changed the complexion of the modern Democratic Party. Before they had built their base around what was called the new Deal Coalition. It was urban ethics. But by 1972, because of the divisions that were exposed by this division over vietnam, he was one in the Democratic Party that thought the party needed to reform or it would die. He saw that the party was losing a southern white populous over the issue of civil rights. He saw that urban ethnics were moving out to the suburbs and that organized labor was shrinking in influence and size. He said he saw there was opportunities for growth by reaching out to minority groups that had been ignored by both parties. By reaching out to women that previously voted strongly on the republican side. By reaching out to the youth vote in 1972. The first year that 18yearolds would get to vote at the United States. He was trying to put together a new coalition. A Politics Coalition to deal with the new Deal Coalition to create this ruling and democratic majority. So coming out of the 68 convention, he chaired a commission on reform, changing the delegate Selection Process that was very proactive in terms of trying to bring minority, women, and young into the party. So other elements like organized labor resented that their influence would diminish. So it is a very wild ride. Because of what they were able to put through the party he had an advantage and upsetting the preferred establishment candidate, at least the one that had been considered the favorite, they caught the establishment off guard and as his success built up, it was a very tough year for the Democratic Party in 1972 as they were solidifying around nixon and his presidency, probably the high point, was 1972. That was the year that he famously went to china among other things. We will talk more about that later on in the program, but part of the acceptance speech was about reforming the Democratic Party. He also takes aim at the Republican Party and it is being held shortly after the democrats also in miami. Take a look. We have had our furry, frustrations in the past month and at this convention. But frankly i welcome the contrast with the smug and dull and empty events that will doubtless take place here in miami next month. We reformed our party and we let the people in. So we stand today, not as a collection of back room strategies, not as a tool of itt or any other social interest. Scott, it was George Mcgovern saying we let the people in. Take us back to the time where he gets the connection. Well, lets go back to 1965. He is maintaining the course, he believes that america can achieve a outright military victory in iran. So he starts shopping for an alternative to the johnson. You think back to American History and prior to 1968 when the party tried to challenge the sitting president. It was 1912 when you have a former president , and even a former president could not knock off a sitting president for the nomination. But they want today pressure johnson to try to quickly end the war and deescalate in vietnam. They approached mcgovern and he declined. But they decided to run as an antiwar candidate. He surprised the political world by having a strong showing against president johnson. He didnt win but he got enough of the vote that he made johnson aware that he would have a very tough time getting the nomination. So he decided to withdrawal from the race. So they entered the president ial contest, and they were both going after it and Vice President humphrey still supported the war and policies of johnson. What senator kennedy was of course assassinated in june, and that really left only senator mccarthy to be the insurgent candidate. Senator kennedys followers urged senator mcgovern to have a token candidacy at the end. So mcgovern did run a token presidency. But the nomination went to Hubert Humphrey. Not only had he not won a if i thinkle primary, but the Democratic Party was still being run by the big city political bosses, the machines, and they want today have under respected constituencies brought into the process. They wanted the endire procetir brought up, and they were widely advertised for anyone to participate into it was a disillusionment that put pressure on the Democratic Party to try to appease the insurgency. It was really the mum fri nomination that outraged the reformers and skauzed them to demand fundamental change. Youre covering the 68 conventi convention, what is happening in the hall and outside. It was chaos. They, the party itself was so divided other tver the war and permits. The Police Department repressed, it was a big fight over a vietnam plank that the antiwar force is lost, but generated tremendous heat. And it continued through the convention. And even after the nomination of h h humfrey, he was a sad figure in his own celebratory moment. He knew what was going on on the street. And on the floor of the convention, there was such a criticism of him and the continuing of the war. So that was in my experience, that was the most disruptive, and also the most exciting convention in my time. And compare how humphrey was chosen as the nominee in 68 to four years later the way that mcgovern is chosen. There was a lot to do with the reform rules. Because in 1968 delegates were largely selected as they had been for years by point or party bosses, party bosses, and if you were a party o specifficial you free ticket. It was the position as an Office Holder or a party Office Holder. And in 1972 those people, in order to get to the convention had to run as delegates supporting one of the primary candidates. A lot of them picked the wrong horse because they supported the establishment candidate and he had all of those Office Holders bulli pulling for him. But when his fell apart. Here is part of our Contender Series this evening in washington to help us uncover George Mcgovern. Back in mitchell south dakota, and theyre going to take your comments and your questions tonight. And mountain pacific time, 202 74 7470202. Let go back to the reform thats were headed by George Mcgovern. Well, as mentioned, it was chaos after 1968 and despite all of that chaos, he closed the gap very quickly. So the regulars were thinking we came very close. If we had not had all of this agitation we would have been fine, but they are saying it was the last gasp of a dieing political machine into humphry wanted to unite the party. So as they look to figure out the right guy for the chair, they have to look to several qualifications. But they also wanted someone loin to the party. And mcgovern, unlike mccarthy and other folks, like an iowa senator, harold hughs, he actively campaigned. It was a way to ensure their nomination. He seemed like an obviously choice. His candidacy was such a long shot it wasnt even worth discussing. So he was appointed to be the chair. There was about two dozen members. They say how were they able to push reforms through. The people that did that was the people most likely opposed to the reform. They boycotted the entire process they brought up the process while the old regulars, particularly organized labor, didnt think it was worth bothering with. They didnt think anything would come of it. So what were the reforms . What did they say . First they went to start the p process and the caucus requires to make it open and you can if youre a Party Official and you got a chance to be a delegate. Sometimes they could also name practices so they tried to occupy up the process general low pressure. So they want today make it more voter responsive. They want today give minority candidates and insurgent candidates a better chance to build steam and take an establishment candidate in the run. More controversially they decided instead of a passive approach, they adopted the reflect of the make up of a States Parties by gender, ethnicity, and race and by age. And they were trying to get more women and more minorities into the race. They said they should try to get reasonable representation of those groups. So they had quotas saying that each should be including a female. And those were the basic gist of the reforms by the mission. And those reforms stick today . They very much do. What is interesting is that they were brought by conservatives and republicans as a quo ta system. It was quotas and an affirmative action program. But now both parties have the reform. If there is call causes theyre widely publicized. And now they are reaching out. If you go to a republican convention, 50 of the delicaees would be female. So in 1968 con vevention 48 we women. In 197212 to 13 were into there was change for what it looked like. For the impact today, is there a long term impact. The iowa caucus is coming up very soon. Indeed, the reforms help nonestablishment candidates get a foothold. You have volunteers that will now up at caucuses and primaries. You can overcome disadvantages with endorsements and money. As republicans have followed suit, and president obama doesnt look like he will get a challenger, but in the 2012 process, this is the first year that there will be no winner take all primaries on their side of the ledger. So Newt Gingrich is filling that roll this year, and he is trying to get a leg up on the establishment candidate. The irony is that Newt Gingrich is benefitting from reforms brought by George Mcgovern. They have stayed with us and involved both parties, not just the democrats. Gary hart. George mcgoverns 1972 Campaign Manager. Here is what he had to say about the reform efforts. I think his life will show he helped save the Democratic Party in 1968 and 72 not simply by chairing the Reform Commission, but by his insistence on the Democratic Party truly becoming a Democratic Party. Because of his efforts and the efforts of many of you, the convention of 1972 has an interesting, shall we say, as it was, helped save the Democratic Party and helped open the doors for young people, for women, minorities, for people who had up to that time been shut out. It is fashionable, i know, for people to say there is not much different betwe difference between the two parties, but there really is. There is a necessity for a Democratic Party and the kind of Democratic Party that he ensituationed and help create. What is your reaction to seeing gary hart talk about the reforms . He is certainly correct that his role was a critical role. I go back to well above 1968, and i can remember in 1960 john kennedy was running. He and his aide and speech writer ted sorenson recently passed away. They would get on an airplane and they would fly around and visit governors and mayors who were so empowered that you could pick up the nomination that way. Retail, what retail, not with the people, but with the officials and the politicians. So, for you, covering these conventions, what was it like to see the new fashices in 1972 ano forward. It was very exciting. You know, 20 or 30 conventions over their lifetime, and they had the hands on the levers and they knew what would happen. There was an element of uncertainty that was injected by all of these new people. And not only in voting for the nominee, but in the Platform Committee hearings, Credentials Committee hearings, and so on that proceeded the selection of a president ial nominee. Let me ask you about the shortterm impact of these reforms. Lets go to the general election. Just real briefly, if we could, in 72. The reforms that he puts in place, do they actually benefit him when it comes to voter turnout to beat Richard Nixon . It helped him to get the nomination. He understood again because he chaired the Reform Commission and he had several staffers working on his campaign he understood the new process. I dont think he tried to manipulate it, i think he was always trying to be open and fair. He understood it, he realized that something changed, and he was able to take advantage of it in terms of winning the nomination, where some of the others were playing by the old rules and they were caught offguard if didnt help because the constituencies were still not matured. He only got 37. 5 of the vote in the popular election. But i think if you look now at todays Democratic Party, you asked about the lasting impacts, if you look at the coalition of the minorities, the young, highly educatedtivi activist ac just as Berry Goldwater said, i think you can give mcgovern a lot of credit for the Barack Obama Presidency of 2008. It just took longer for that constituency to meld it wasnt ready in 1972. The democratic congressman and senator from dakota. Let me get our viewers involved. First from mic ke in new york. Youre on the air. Good even, hello. He became part of the middle east council after not running in 1972. And he submitted a proposal calling the United States to protect access to oil in response to israels failure to end conflict. Did president clinton accept proposal. Doesnt know how to answer that quite right. He was certainly very under in the middle east affairs. The palestinian authority. He was always interested in trying to help broker a peace agreement. President clinton made an effort to try to finally make that peace, but senator mcgovern got a lot of grief for using frass like treatment in the middle ea east, he was a strong supporter of israel, and he was outspoken as well. Were going to be talking more about his post 72 convention life. His legacy, and his efforts across the world, specifically on hunger. First lets hear from gordon in peoria, illinois. I was a College Student that voted for mcgovern as a 20yearold. Later on hearing the things on the next son groups and their dirty tricks, i heard a program that they claimed they chose him as a weakest link, and they use. And he says mcgovern felt like the republicans chose him. It was certainly true that in the 1972 campaign he was involved in a number of dirty tricks that were aimed at musky. I dont think it was terms of setting it up for mcgovern. At the beginning of the year it was such a long shot that it would have been really a requiring clairvoyance to have a set of policies to make it was more they wanted dixon people wanted to get rid of muskie. They thought he was the toughest candidate. They did a number of things, including spreading word in New Hampshire, which had a very, very heavy frenchcanadian population. He had used certain slur words. Slurring french canadians. They had another scheme whereby they had a Nixon Campaign, had a number of black voters call in new york accents urging people to vote for muskie. Assuming a backlash against muskie. These things all came out. It wasnt the reason he didnt get the nomination. His old campaign had problems that were just as troublesome for him as were mcgoverns. Well talk more about mcgovern during the primary of 1971 and the general election in 1972. But first we need to peel back a little bit and talk first about why George Mcgovern would run matt first place. Scott faris, what makes him decide to run for the presidency in 1972 . It goes back to 1968 when he filled in for Robert Kennedy and sort of was the standard bearer for his delegates because they wanted him to sort of be a standin for kennedy. He participated in a debate before the california delegation between Hubert Humphrey and Gene Mccarthy and himself. Everyone thought that mcgovern tended to have won that debate, and he said at that moment he realized that he had president ial aspirations because he had gone on a National Stage against two of the leading democrats in the country and more than held his own. So he began considering a run at that point, and decided fairly early in 1969 that he would be a candidate, that he felt he had he was the right person to bring together the old regulars with the new insurgents and create a democratic majority. He also personally just despised Richard Nixon. Mcgovern had always sort of rejected the construct of the cold war, that there was and he detested red baiters. When he ran for senate in 1960, ran against a wellknown anticommunist. He had always despised nixon for having how he had run against stevenson in 52 and 56. Eisenhower as Vice President ial nominee. So he really relished the fight as well and it was probably a great incentive for him to run. On vietnam, whats happening between 1968 and 72 on that issue . Well, of course, nixon had said in 1968 he had, quote, a secret plan to end the war in vietnam. That turned out in 69 and 70 that escalated the war, most famously early in 1970 by having u. S. Troops invade cambodia to have them disrupt supply lines. From North Vietnam congress and the south. Early in the nixon presidency, the war was escalating, seemed to be expanding, not winding down. This really outraged the Antiwar Movement and gave mcgovern even greater impetus to want to run against nixon and the campaign. Later as it came closer to the election, nixon understood he needed to start disengaging american troops and going through the process he called vietnamization sophisticate war. By 1972 there were only a couple hundred thousand combat troops left in vietnam at that point. As mcgovern was making the decision to run, he thought nixon was escalating the war, not winding it down. Jules witcover, in 1971 the pentagon papers are first published. Whats the impact of this . Well, actually the pentagon papers were not as revealing as was said to be because a lot of what were in the pentagon papers were known. But it gave more credibility to what was at the time very mixed public feeling about the protest against vietnam war. I think the impression now is that the country was totally in an uproar against the war in vietnam in the late 1960s. It really wasnt. It was very much split. But you had the 1970 antiwar protest, the kent state shootings, that sort of thing. Yes, but even before that you had very strong protests that nixon very effectively played on. There were just as many people who deplored the mess in the streets, the pictures of these wild looking young people with their long hair and strange clothes, that offended main street america or mainstream america, and so the war was particularly effective in dealing with the democratic situation because it was a rallying point for voters and activists, but nixon also made great use of the reaction to the war by making very slanderous remarks about the people who demonstrated and so on, and he ran in 68 and again in 72 on basically a law and order agenda. He was going to protect the American People from these rowdies who were starting fires and having rallies in the streets. So thats why the war it has been painted now that the vietnam war really built the protest, and it did do that, but also solidified opposition to the war to the advantage of Richard Nixon. So scott farris, all of this and the impact of the war on mcgovern, what does it do . Well, i think it caused him to lose his perspective a little bit, to be honest. He was so horrified by the war and thought it was such a terrible mistake, and he had made several trips to vietnam and hed seen soldiers who had lost limbs and been crippled for life as well as tens of thousands who had died, and so he spoke again about the war in terms that were very, very strong and harsh and uncompromising. He gave a famous speech before the u. S. Senate in 1970 which he said that chamber reeks of blood. When you use that kind of language, its obviously going to get peoples attention and its going to maybe energize the most fervent of the antiwar folks but it disquiets a lot of voters who thought he was going to withdraw america without any honor and maybe not even be worrying about what was going to happen to the prisoners of war there. He was so passionate about the war he used the strongest possible language to describe it, and he also wanted to give the American People a sense that they had ownership of this war. That they were partly culpable. It was just the fault of the president and the generals, but this was a problem with American Society that we couldnt see what america was doing wrong in vietnam. So politically, ultimately, i think it hurt him certainly in the general election, because americans dont really want to hear the country and the military spoken about in that way. And of course, it gave the democrats this image of being, quote, antimilitary that they have been trying to shake for the last several decades. Scott farris, this is his motivation for running for president . Absolutely. His desire to end the war is absolutely at the very most important thing to him. When he did lose, he said, you know, i feel so strongly about this war, i would say this, if we brought peace one day closer, then every bone crushing hour of this campaign was worth it. He just felt extremely passionately this was the wrong war. What was ironic, of course, he was a war hero himself. He had served in world war ii as a bomber pilot. He was in pacifist. He thought it was a war of independence, anticolonial war and the United States had misread it as a war against communist expansion, which he just didnt think that was true. Thats where we want to go next and talk about the early life of George Mcgovern before we talk about the 72 campaign. The Mcgovern Campaign hired a documentary filmmaker, charles guggenheim, to produce a series of short films about the candidate. As we turn to tell the story of young mcgovern, here is a brief look at the guggenheim films. He was christened George Stanley mcgovern. Birth place, avon, south dakota. He grew up in mitchell and started school there. But the more important lessons were learned at home. From his mother, a gentle spirit, and from his father, christian principles and hard work. His father had spent his boyhood in the illinois coal country where the 14hour days were measured out at 10 cents a bucket. But he found time to read the scriptures and decided to abandon the mine for the pulpit. In 1899. He was ordained a minister. Reverend mcgovern built his last church in mitchell when george was 5. As a boy, george had his fathers love of history, but he would not be spared the troubles of his own time. The memory would remain with him all his life. Scott farris, back in mitchell, south dakota, at the mcgovern museum, tell us about George Mcgovern. What through his life, starting early on, influences him, defines him . Well, first of all, i think its extremely important again to recall that his father was a minister in the wesleyan methodist denomination, which is a very strict, fairly fundamentalist sect of methodistism. It restricted going to movies. What he got from his father was a strong sense of whats right and whats wrong to the point hes often been accused of being moralistic and sometimes even a little bit selfrighteous. So he got that from his father very strongly, and this notion first of all that theres right and wrong and also the notion of doing good. He read a lot about the social gospel which was about how you apply christianity to Public Affairs so you feed the hungry, et cetera. He also, interestingly, was a shy child, which later would influence him. He had teachers who thought he had a learning disability and was kind of slow. A couple teachers realized he was, in fact, a very intelligent lad but just very shy, so they forced him to read aloud. When he got to high school, he had an influential teacher, a guy named bob pearson, who was the history and social studies teacher as well as the debate coach. And he convinced George Mcgovern to go out for debate, and it turned out he was an exceptional debater. He won a number of state meets and won a scholarship here to dakota wesleyan as a debater. At dakota wesleyan, he and his team won national competitions. That Early Childhood really formed him in terms of becoming a public figure who cared a lot about who was a good communicator, a good speaker, made good arguments but who cared also about moral principles and public policy. And then world war ii. Yes. He had another teacher who had an influence in a different way during world war ii. He had a gym teacher who directed mcgovern to jump over a vaulting horse. He said he ran up and couldnt bring himself to do this somersault and the p. E. Teacher said your problem, george, is youre a physical coward. That really strung mcgovern. He thought about it for a number of years because he said when he was at dakota wesleyan, a classmate came up and said id like to take flying lessons. If i can get ten guys together we can get a discount. Mcgovern said he was afraid of flying but he remember what had this gym teacher said and decided to take the pilot lessons and became a certified pilot. When japan bombed pearl harbor, mcgovern and his friends drove down to omaha and enlisted in the army air corps, and he became a pilot of b24 bombers. He was stationed in italy. He flew 35 combat missions, which is what you were required to fly before you got to go home. He was an exceptionally skilled pilot. He was very much admired by his crew of ten. The b24 was a hard plane to fly. He had on three occasions what i cant call crash landings, because he didnt crash, but emergency landings where it was very risky. Every time he brought his crew home safely. For that he won the distinguished flying cross and was really a war hero. Later in life after he developed a friendship with the historian steven ambrose, mr. Ambrose wrote the wild blue which is a chronicle of the mcgovern experience during the war as a way to highlight the air war during world war ii. How does his early political career define him define his president ial candidacy . He had initially thought he would be a teacher. He was going to become a history first, excuse me, originally thought he was going to be a minister. After he came back from the war and completed his undergraduate education, he entered the seminary thinking he would follow in his fathers footsteps. He discovered the only thing he liked about the ministry was giving the sermons. He found a lot of the sacraments and parish visits and those things werent up his alley. He switched to history, got a doctorate degree from northwestern in history. Only along with woodrow wilson, one of two men to have ph. D. S who have been nominated for president. He had some professors at he had emergency landings, very northwestern that gave him some background in regard to Eastern Europe that led him to believe the cold war construct was all wrong, that the soviet union was not attempting World Domination but protecting the fear of influence and also happened when it was imperial russia. He was very active in the 1952 Adlai Stephenson campaign here south dakota and started writing letters to the editor and guest editorial. He caught the eye of democrats who asked if he would become the secretary of the south Democratic Party. The democrats in south dakota at that time were in sad shape. There were 110 legislators in south dakota and it was quite a challenge that mcgovern thought was worth taking. He recruited Party Workers and candidates, he raised money, wrote platforms and speeches. The democrats had 24 seats in 1954 and in 1956 mcgovern took the party he helped build up and ran for congress for the first time to defeat the twotime republican named harold rover. He won again in 1958 when he defeated a south dakota governor. And then in 1960 he made his first bid for United States senate and lost, losing to long time senator in south dakota. So john kennedy felt that perhaps his candidacy had brought mcgovern down to south dakota. Of course, he had offered mcgovern the position of food for Peace Program in the Kennedy Administration. So we are talking about George Mcgoverns legacy, his candidacy. Were going to delve into the primary run he made in 1971, but before we do that, lets get in kurt in akron, ohio, as part of the conversation. Go ahead, kurt. Caller thank you and good evening, cspan. Thank you for the wonderful series of the contenders. I only hope one day youll do one about the cabinet, too, but anyway, my comment, my question is that i heard somewhere, and i dont know what the trust is behind this, but just moments before senator robert f. Kennedy was assassinated in 1968 after winning the california primary, senator mcgovern was actually participating in a phone conversation with senator kennedy. And i just wondering if it has now been revealed what the conversation was about and if you know anything about that phone conversation. I never heard that. I happened to be in the Hotel Kitchen at the time Robert Kennedy was assassinated. I spent a great deal of time then and since then exploring all the details of the time leading up to Robert Kennedys death. I never came across that story, but i do know that in his hotel room he made make calls to a number of people to look forward to what he expected to be the next phase of the campaign, which was to go to new york and campaign for the delegates there. He did talk to many people and he may have talked to senator mcgovern as well because if im not mistaken it was also a primary in south dakota the same night. I had not heard that he talked to him but it is very possible. All right. Mike in california, good evening to you. Thank you for joining us. Caller hello. Just a few things i want to throw out. The book about watergate said dirty tricks were central to the narrative and i think it is more accurate to say nixon ran a white backlash campaign rather than a socalled law and order. And finally a little historical footnote, unfortunately the only state mcgovern carried was massachusetts, so im from there and at the time we proudly festooned our car with burcher stickers that said, dont blame me, im from massachusetts. Thats all i have to say. Thanks. Scott farris. Mcgovern was always saying he didnt win because of dirty tricks against muskie. He was a weak frontrunner, he didnt have the fire in the belly, and he clearly didnt understand the rules changed because of the Reform Commission. So the notion that musky lost the nomination solely because of nixons dirty tricks outside the Newspaper Office when they allegedly slurred his wife, senator mcgovern thought that was bunk, but he acknowledged the Nixon Campaign of doing Little Things and the Mcgovern Campaign had plenty of stories where they would find out their buses had been canceled right before a rally and they couldnt get people to and from. They always seemed to have somebody behind him at the rally holding up a hammer and sickle flag of soviet union, which they always assumed was a nixon trick. But he did not win the nomination. To virginia. Caller i several years ago read the wild blue and only then learned about mcgoverns war record. I remember the 1972 campaign because it was the first time i could vote, but i dont recall mcgovern ever mentioning his war record. And i think that it would have given his antiwar stance more credibility if he had. Can you comment on that . John, before our guests comment on that, i want to show you and others what George Mcgovern had to say about his experience as a world war ii bomber pilot. Cspan sat down with him in dakota. Here he is. Well watch that and then come back and talk about it. I flew 35 missions in the b24 bomber, which is the biggest one we had at that time. That was before the b52 and the b1. And we were hitting the most heavily defended targets in europe. They shot us to pieces on some of those missions. I wanted to bailout, and i wanted my crew to bail out, but i have a little scotch blood and knew the planes cost 300,000. Thats nothing by todays standards where you have a b1 that costs a billion for one plane, but it was a lot of money then. So i kept nursing those crippled planes back to home base. And for that i got the distinguished flying cross. There it is, the distinguished flying cross in mitchell, south dakota, at the mcgovern museum. We are live from there for our contenders series tonight on George Mcgovern. Scott farris, how does a war hero become an antiwar president ial candidate and why, as that caller said, does he not talk about it . It was the subject of a lot of debate during the campaign about how much to emphasize his war record during the campaign, but he specifically was encouraged by his staff to exclude it from his nomination acceptance speech. They thought it was in congress to come out and speak about it and brag about the war record. I agree with the caller, it would have been to the benefit to talk about it more. People got the mistake that he was a pacifist who later would endorse clintons use of the armed forces in kosovo to stop genocide there. He was not a passivist. It was a decision in congress to mention the war record in the context of being antiwar candidate. Jules, as a reporter covering this, was it talked about, his war hero status . Not much until near the end of the campaign. He had a slogan in his speech which he wound up his speeches late in the campaign leaving the war behind and coming home. And he that was one of his slogans was come home america. And it was in the context of that that he talked about his wartime experience. Well, before we talk a little bit more about George Mcgoverns primary run, let me get this phone call in from jill in massachusetts. Jill, youre on the air. Caller thank you. I recall watching senator mcgovern and Robert Woodward and Bob Schaeffer at the time of president fords funeral and they were interviewing senator mcgovern and talking about it and his friendship with president ford and he said, well n the end he had voted for ford in 76. And he discussed it with his family. Found they had done it as well. I about fell off my chair because im a strong democrat. So i wondered if that has come into the mix of information about senator mcgovern ever. Scott farris . He did have great affection for gerald ford. I dont know that he actually voted for him but he also had some problems with president carter. A couple reasons, president carter had not been supportive of him back in 1972. And then president carter kind of basically borrowed the mcgovern strategy in 72 to get his nomination in 76. Also he was a little hurt that the magnitude of senator mcgoverns loss meant he was a kind of a bit of a pariah in democratic circles. He worked with a number of republicans. He and bob dole partnered for almost an entire lifetime on the issue of ending hunger in the world. So he certainly was capable of working across the aisle. He wasnt an ideologue who never worked in a bipartisan manner. George mcgovern, world ii hero congressman from south dakota, senator from there, decides to make a run for the presidency. Having decided to run, mcgovern announces from sioux falls, north dakota, january 18th, 1971. Here is piece of a Campaign Film put together by charles to guggenheim on his decision to run. This country was conceived by men who had a dream of Human Dignity and justice and concern for each other. And if we begin now to match our policies with our ideals, then i believe that it is yet possible that welcome to admire this country not simply because we were born here but because of the kind of great and good land that you and i want it to be and that together we have made it. That is my hope, that is my reason for seeking the presidency of the United States. Jules witcover, what is mcgoverns chances heading into the primary of 1971 . Considered very slim. Very slim. He was not a really dynamic personality. He was a very calm man, a very softspoken, lacked fire, really, except when he talked about the war in vietnam. Was he considered dull . Some considered him dull, but his gentleness and his niceness sometimes was ridiculed. But they were genuine at what he when he ran in the first primaries, he was regarded, basically, as a weak replacement of Robert Kennedy, because Robert Kennedy, a as candidate, was so dynamic. And it was also because he was because muskie was considered almost a certainty to be the nominee at the time. He had been very impressive as humphreys nominee in 1968. He was also a rather softspoken man most of the time, but he also had a terrible temper that sometimes came through. That seldom happened with George Mcgovern. Who else is running and how do they compare to George Mcgovern . As i recall, there was another senator and fred harris of oklahoma. But they were all bunched up together. It was considered muskies nomination to lose. Some of the things that happened in New Hampshire that your other guest mentioned included a period to cry and a furious moment outside the local newspaper for things that had been printed about his wife. There was some dispute about whether he was crying or not and because it was snowing at the time, and muskie himself to deny very strenuously he didnt, he wasnt crying, but nevertheless that was the impression. But there are other reasons that his candidacy collapsed or began to collapse in New Hampshire because one of the big ones was his position on vietnam. He couldnt make up his mind where he stood on vietnam. Whereas mcgovern left no doubt where he stood on the war. Another point i should make is that mcgovern was genuinely against the war, but he was belittled very often as a peace stick, as the expression went in those days. And so although he was revered by the people who were against the war in vietnam, as i said before, there were so many other people who didnt see it that way and they would never dream of voting for George Mcgovern. Charles guggenheim, part of what he filmed during the campaign included the senator speaking to a group of vietnam war veterans at a hospital. Heres a little bit of that conversation. A lovely country, no question about that. I bet youre about halfway mad at it, too, arent you . Believe me, when you lose control of your bowel, your bladder, your sterility, youll never father a child, when your possibility of walking again is cut off from your life, youre 23 years old, you dont want to be a burden on your family, you know where you go from here . A nursing home. You stay there until you rot. Why arent there places that the government can set up . Nobody thinks of a disabled veteran or a disabled anybody as another disabled person. If you fall out of your wheelchair, you know who is the first one to give you some help . A guy in a wheelchair, not somebody thats walking. I think one of the most unconscionable facts in this country today is what you just said, that there are people who are desperately in need of help that cant qualify for it under the present system. To stay alive. Thats right. I love the United States but i love it enough so i want to see some changes made. The American People want to believe in their government. They want to believe in their country. And id like to be one of those that provides the kind of leadership that would help restore that kind of faith. I dont say i can do it alone. Of course i cant. But the president can help set a new tone in this country. He can help raise the vision and the faith and the hope of the American People. And thats what i would like to try to do. Scott farris, the impact of George Mcgoverns tone in that Campaign Film and its impact on his primary run. Well, in terms of the tone, one of the things i go back to is how many times america is often involved in some sort of military conflict as we are today, over the last decade in iran and afghanistan, but how often you hear politicses talking that candidly about the cost of war. Very seldom, if ever. And i think again that was very startling to a lot of American People. After the election mcgovern had lost and said he was in the Senate Cloak Room and overheard the senator from georgia talking. He said, let me tell you why he lost that election. America is a great country, has plenty of faults. But george acted like he was angry at the country and you cant preach day and night against america and expect to get elected. That shocked mcgovern because his feeling was as a patriot what you do is point out your nations faults and try to improve them. You dont just sugarcoat it and say we are a great country and nation and everything we do is hunkydory. He was fulfilling the highest point of patriotism, but he was talking graphically about the cost of war and questioning our conduct there and why we were there in the first place. And so as Jules Witcover said, scott farris, this was muskies primary race to lose. So how does George Mcgovern overcome this and win the nomination . Again, i think he was a bit of a political savant, an organizational genius. He understood what it would take to win. First of all, it was always talked about what a good guy and decent guy he was. Thats all true, but he was intensely ambitious as well. He tells the story of himself one time about a friend of his who said, george, youre the most modest selfeffacing ego maniac i know. Thats true. Mcgovern had that fire in the belly to be president and he was willing to do what it took in terms of putting in long hours ps and gary hart, his Campaign Manager, said one of the advantages mcgovern had over muskie is he would do what it would take. He would go for the jugular to win the nomination. He had a concept of how to win that involved the activists who would organize and flood the early caucus states and the early primary states and get him out of the lower depths of the candidacies where he was polling 1 or 3 at the beginning of the cam bane, but then he pulled off a strong second place showing in the iowa caucus. A strong second place showing in New Hampshire. It showed that muskie was vulnerable and caused other people, including hubert humpfully to get into the race. He outorganized the race. He won key primaries in wisconsin. He nearly won ohio. He was the key pivot place of california, which well talk about more, but he had Better Organization and worked harder and he had the devotion of the antiwar insurgents at his disposal, which none of the other candidates had. Jewels Jules Witcover, what was the media making of the strategy at the time . This grassroots strategy, were you paying attention to it . Obviously. But i think that we are really paying more attention to muskie because he was supposed to be the winner. Muskies staff made a terrible mistake in New Hampshire with one of his leading Campaign People predicting that muskie, as you said, if ed muskie does not win 50 of the vote ill eat my hat. He won 46 of the vote. But against that prediction, it was written really that mcgovern was essentially the winner of the New Hampshire primary and muskie didnt recover from that. So i think if muskie had not stumbled, mcgovern, knowing the game which he invented with the new delegate selection rules, probably would have won anyway. But the fact that muskie had this string of mistakes and bad luck certainly provided the opening for mcgovern. And George Wallace, the role of him in this primary . Well, wallace was a spoiler. He tried to be a spoiler. And he damaged muskie in florida because wallace won the florida primary and muskie, if im not mistaken, finished fourth. That was kind of the last nail in muskies coffin and another thing to open up the way for mcgovern. Scott farris, muskie stumbled but did mcgovern make any mistakes in the primary . He did later and got complacent oddly enough. Here he was the insurgent and came from 200 to 1 odds to win the nomination, but he stumbled the most badly in california. He came into california, he was riding on all these sudden victories and it was down to he and Hubert Humphrey because muskie dropped out, all these other candidates mentioned as well and it came down to the california primary. And suddenly they were fat and happy and didnt work as hard. They kind of took humphrey for granted. The media, too. Thats why mcgovern got a lot of positive press early on as people kind of always admire somebody who is scrapping from behind. So now humphrey got the positive press. They played the same expectations game that muskie lost in New Hampshire he lost in california. Everyone assumed it would be a blowout in california and it turned out close. It was kind of the last big bump in the road that nearly derailed his nomination. Well get into that a little bit more, but i want to first talk about dirty tricks because a couple callers have brought that up. Jules witcover, whats happening in the campaign . What are some of the dirty tricks happening . Most of the dirty tricks that happened were in New Hampshire. Weve already talked about the things that were done to muskie. Throughout the campaign, the dirty tricks were integral to nixons strategy. Not simply because they were afraid of muskie but that was the way they did business. The whole watergate breakin was a manifestation of their desire, not only to win but to destroy. The whole campaign, which was really personified by nixon himself, was to just decimate the opposition. Not take any chances. And it led to the excesses we saw soon after in the watergate breakin. Lets stick to mcgovern in the primaries. Scott farris, where does this tag line of amnesty, asset and abortion come from . Explain what it is, where does it come from . Well, remarkably it came from his future running mate in his memoirs posted posthumously just a while ago. Allegedly, eagleton was the first one when people said, does mcgovern have a chance and eagleton said allegedly on background. He couldnt because he favors abortion, amnesty and legalization of marijuana. That later got dhoongd acid for al alit rative value. So that was kind of painted on mcgovern that was pretty unfair. First of all, he didnt support legalization of marijuana. He would go to College Campuses and say you have heard im the candidate to legalize pot and the college audiences would go wild and applaud. Thats not true, i really dont but just dont think theres jail penalties for the marijuana possession. The crowd would sit on their hands. In terms of amnesty, he favored limited amnesty. He didnt favor it for deserters but for Conscientious Objectors and those who evaded it inch other ways. On borings he pacified feminist that it should be made at the state level not national level. Had he been asked body roe v. Wade lynn 1972, he would have opposed the structure of roe v. Wade which was a federal matter. All those labels really applied to him but they sort of, as he mentioned, they captured the hippy image his opponents were trying to put on mcgovern. I wouldnt categorize that line, asset, amnesty and abortion as a dirty trick. Thats just so common place in politics and has always been, particularly more so now. But we talk about dirty tricks and are talking about active actions taken by one side to sabotage the other side. Right. Right. What, at the time, when you heard that tag line covering these primaries, what did you make of it . Not much. You didnt write about it . I dont remember what i wrote about it, but i have no reason to not write about it, but i wouldnt have put it in the category of being a dirty trick. It was just sort of a mudslinging that would go on both sides back and forth and always has been and probably will continue to do. All right. William in pennsylvania, youre on the air with our two guests. We are talking about George Mcgovern, the 13th contender here in the 14week series. Go ahead. Caller i was a 17yearold College Student at the time and volunteered for the Mcgovern Campaign then, but i was not able to vote in that election. But my question is, the breakin of the democratic headquarters at the watergate did not appear to be exploited much by the Mcgovern Campaign at the time. Why was there so much caution with the campaign not to denounce the breakin, it seems to me the sinister aspects of a breakin may have been a factor, very effective factor and reason for people not to reelect nixon. And i would like to conclude lastly that mr. Mcgovern appears to be the only living contender who is available. And i was wondering if he was invited to participate in your program tonight. You know what . He was invited to participate, and we had planned that he would join us. Unfortunately he took a spill earlier this evening, and he wont be able to make it. Hes doing fine, but regrettably he wont be able to make it with us this evening. Lets talk the callers comments about nixon and watergate breakin and the role it plays. Why doesnt mcgovern make more of it . Mcgovern certainly tried but at the time it was interesting that the watergate story didnt take off the way it should have, the way you would expect it to. One of the reasons is the inside journalism story. A lot of newspapers, including my Old Newspaper at the time, los angeles times, some editors felt that the story was unprovable or hasnt been proved and that the Washington Post was hanging out there by itself and that was fine with the other newspapers. So they didnt always jump in on it. And mcgovern himself, to his credit, hammered away at it but it didnt catch on with the press the way you would have expected it to. And were the American People paying attention . They were reading about it. But you have to remember most of the destructive discriminating aspects of the watergate campaign were revealed when the campaign was over. When the trial began and one of the defendants told the judge that there was more to the story than had come out. So a lot of that stuff came out too late for it to be of any benefit to mcgovern, but he certainly did try. All right. We discussed the primary, lets go up to the convention. Heres director mcgovern at the convention in miami joking about giving his speech at 2 30 in the morning. Chairman obrien, tara romenburg, senator kennedy, senator eagleton and my fellow citizens, im happy to join you for this benediction of our friday sunrise service. [ applause ] i assume that everyone here is impressed with my control of this convention and that my choice for Vice President was challenged by only 39 other nominees. And we are back live from mitchell, south dakota, at the museum in mitchell, south dakota, the mcgovern museum there. Scott farris, a president ial author, its taking place, mcgovern gives his speech at 2 30 in the morning. Tie that back to something you touched on briefly before we heard from mcgovern there, and that is Hubert Humphreys challenge to mcgovern in the state of california. How does that impact the convention and the latenight speech . Okay. So what happened in california was that the Mcgovern Commission as i mentioned earlier decided to do away with winner take all primaries. They granted an exception to california. And they did that at the antiwar insurgents and that there was a lot of strong insurgent feeling in california. That would been fit hoover the insurgent candidate turned out to be if california remained a winnertakeall state. Those were the rules adopted and everybody understood that. So they went to the california primary, the last big primary before the convention. By now the race narrowed down between mcgovern and humphrey. Mcgovern was thought to have a huge win but humphrey came close. At that point, said why does california have to be winner take all . Talked about dis34r5i67placemen should get half because he was trying to stop mcgovern. They were good friends, next door neighbors. Humphrey had been born in south dakota before moving to north dakota, both history professors. They had a lot in common. Mcgovern was shocked he went to such lengths to deny it, that would not deny the nomination, he had already locked up other delegates from caucus states. This went all the way to the Convention Floor where he proposed a delegates half mcgovern supporters, the other half his supporters. Tuesday of the convention, wednesday was the day mcgovern was supposed to submit his Vice President ial nominee. As mr. Witcover mentioned, people were exhausted having a fight over this delegate question in florida. So when they got up the next morning, they didnt have a short list of vp nominees. And in fairness, they generally didnt name the Vice President ial nominee until the convention, except when mcgovern picked eagleton, now you see Vice President ial nominees are picked well ahead of the convention to be vetted. It took all day to pick somebody willing to run as George Mcgoverns running made. Came down to just a few minutes before the deadline. At that time he also a lot but he angered the feminist and they decided to put a woman candidate up, sissy farenthold. Put up a bunch of nominees, a total of 39, some serious, some goofy. So by the time they got the ballots done and nominating eagleton, it was 2 30 in the morning. Who is on his short list of possible vp candidates . Started out with quite a long list. The night after they were supposed to pick the nominee, that morning at the doral hotel in miami, he called together the staff. They sat around this big green covered table in the hotel and slips of paper were passed around to all of the Staff Members. This was some of the lowliest Staff Members in on the decision of who should be the Vice President. They would write their names on a little piece of paper and be collected and then they would total them. At first they had about 20 different people no, maam natured, and then they narrowed it down to 10, and then they narrowed it down to six. I dont know if i can name all the six. But among that group, in addition to eagleton, were obviously ted kennedy, who told the governor several times he didnt want to do it. Larry obrien, the Campaign Manager, the governor of connectic connecticut, gaylord nelson, a senator from wisconsin, and there were two or three others. Right. So they would take a ballot, take another one and take another one. Finally when they got down to two people, they were eagleton and kevin white, the mayor of boston at the time. After some more discussion, it was decided to it should be kevin white. But they actually mcgovern actually called kevin white and offered him the nomination and he said he would take it. But then kenneth galbreath, prominent economist and member of the massachusetts delegation called mcgovern and said you cant take kevin white. Massachusetts delegates will walk out. It was also suggested that ted kennedy would object. So he had to back off and denominate kevin twhit, and that left eagleton. I have a little story about that meeting. Another reporter and i named todd from the st. Louis post dispatch and i were hanging around outside this meeting for a couple of hours. When it finally broke up, we went into the room and found all these little pieces of paper. Most of them torn up. So we meticulously got them all together and spent about two hours patching them together so we could try to determine who it was going to be. And there were so many names and so many little pieces finally we wasted our time, there was never never solved the problem. No consensus on the staff. They had decided by that time that it would be eagleton by default almost. But all these pieces of paper were there, and we didnt know they had made a decision. So we wasted about two hours playing detectives trying to figure out who it was. Scott farris, why do all these potential vp running mates say no. When he does choose eagleton, eagleton accepts, who does that appeal to . Well, most of them said no because they thought he was going to lose. Even though senator mcgovern thought he had very good cases to make and good reasons he thought he was going to win, most people didnt think it was going to happen. So nobody wanted to be associated with a losing campaign. Senator mcgoverns tactic, he could talk senator kennedy into being his running mate, spent a lot of time, he represented the party, he wanted to unify the democrats. He was looking for somebody who would be acceptable to labor, urban, ethnic, catholic, thats why senator white was that and eagleton fit that bill. He was very excited, had some aspirations of his own. Senator mcgoverns Communications Director and top strategist called senator eagleton called Satya Nadella said is there anything in your past we should know about that would qualify you from being Vice President . He said no, no there wasnt. Well talk more about the eagleton decision and the fallout from it. First let me go ahead ed in on the conversation. Hes in moorestown, new jersey. Go ahead. Caller good evening. Senator mcgovern took up Robert Kennedys banner in 1968. How much support did he receive from the mcgovern forces after he got the nomination and added the Kennedy Family members youre about to discuss to the ticket. Scott farris, want to take that one . Yes, id be glad to. They campaigned enthusiastically for him, campaigned aggressively for him. Of course when eagleton was dropped from the ticket, senator shriver, mattered to brotherinlaw, kennedy, he had a strong running mate. Strong support from the Kennedy Family. They had strong affection for mcgovern, strong ally. High regard for George Mcgovern, called him the most decent man in the u. S. Senate so Kennedy Family was behind him 100 . Michael in ohio, youre next. Caller yes, this talk about the Vice President s pick is just an example of how messed up that whole scenario seemed to be. What i always wondered was how come the Democratic Party never stood behind Hubert Humphrey. Only four years earlier had a very close election with president nixon and why they wouldnt have backed him all along, instead of him just becoming another person trying to run for office. All right. Mr. Witcover. Well, one reason was that humpfully had been a president ial candidate before that and hadnt made it. And muskie, as we said before, muskie was so strong that also you have to remember that nixon not nixon but that lbj was a standard a standard bearer in 68 until he decided to drop out and humphrey didnt get into that race until after lbj dropped out. So he didnt have the apparatus to go on. But i think he probably would have been a good candidate. Leadville, colorado, bud, youre on the air. Caller yes. It is leadville. Sorry about that. Thank you for taking my call and doing this series. Were talking about one of my favorite americans, the very First Campaign i was ever involved in. I have always been rather amazed at how much this country dismissed senator mcgovern and was willing to reelect Richard Nixon. I read mr. Witcovers book the year it came out while i was in college. And that book and several others, i still just couldnt quite get it. But i think that the senator has proven himself over decades to be a very Great American, and im really grateful for cspan presenting this program. All right. Jules witcover. I want to agree with the caller that mcgovern was an underrated and underappreciated candidate. Its unfortunate that he ran into a candidacy that was very aggressive and disruptive and that he made some serious mistakes in his own campaign that did him in. But i doubt without the other conflicts of the campaign, dirty tricks and so on, whether mcgovern could have won that election. Lets get into that. Lets get into nixons role in the general election and mistakes made by mcgovern. But first we need to talk about the eagleton choice and the fallout from that. Here is mcgoverns former Campaign Aide explaining the eagleton choice. The problem there, of course, was that we had a very tough road to the nomination. It wasnt clear until the second day of the convention because of an ugly credentials fight that concerned the california delegation, it wasnt clear that George Mcgovern had the clear sailing to the nomination we thought he had. Had to win that fight and that took a lot of effort, delegates, time and concentration. It got kind of chaotic. There were three or four days there in which to choose a Vice President. Two days, really. Two days, two nights. We all got together and talked and talked about names and asked a few people and threw some names around. But tom eagleton was by all standard measurements a good candidate. George mcgovern was the son of a protestant minister from small agriculture state in the north and eagleton was a strong catholic with strong ties to labor. On the key issues, he was certainly in agreement with mcgovern. It looked like a pretty good fit. You have to understand we didnt have any fbi, we didnt have any security agencies available to check anybody out. We assumed tom eagleton had run statewide and won four or five times, as he had, if there were anything that could be used against him it would have been used against him. So Jules Witcover, the eagleton choice, what are you being told about it from the campaign . There was no he chatter, because there was no indication there was anything wrong with it. Vetting candidates was a very casual sort of thing at the t e time. As Frank Mankiewicz said in the clip, there wasnt much time to do anything, or any reason, really, not to word for it. So you were in sioux falls. You go after the convention youre in sioux falls. What is happening there about eagleton . Well, i was not out there at the time that eagleton went to went out there and met with mcgovern. Mcgovern had first was satisfied with eagletons explanation and stood up for him and said, you know, said he was it was important but there was some questions coming back. He said he was 1,000 . It was hard to back away from that. They realized the reaction they were getting it was a disclosure of eagletons problems. So what happens next . Well, what happened next was that some other reports came out, for example, he was also a drunk who had been arrested on drunk driving. It turned out it was false. At that point in time he was becoming a sympathetic figure. It seemed like people were picking 0 on him. There was a lot of sympathy for people who had Mental Illness and there was a feeling he was cured. If he said he was fine, maybe he is fine. Why shouldnt he stay on the ticket . And he began to think it was true, too. So the initial idea he could quietly resign and go away. He felt his reputation was damaged. He hadnt been feeling well. The senator wrote out the statement that mcgovern would make and no reference to the alleged Mental Health problems. The struggle to find replacement for eagleton took a long time. Senator muskie called a News Conference to announce he had declined to be the fillthis nominee. Eventually they turned to shriver if you talk to gary hart, theyll tell you that while they never won in 1972, they believe that mcgovern would have carried 10, 15 states p won 45 to 47 of the vote, not 37 . Eventually they turned to shriver if you talk to gary hart, theyll tell you that while they never won in 1972, they believe that mcgovern would have carried 10, 15 states p won 45 to 47 of the vote, not 37 . Why is that, scott farris . How do americans view that decision . Well, the interesting thing was, ten, remember that senator mcgovern felt one of the great advantages he had over nixon was on the question of character. He believed that nixon was basically a knockoff of joe mccarthy. He never understood how Middle America embraced nixon as the caller earlier allude to baffled many americans. And yet because he had waffled and sort of gone back and forth and seemed to be indecisive and maybe not totally honest about the fiasco, the question of character worked in nixons favor. If you asked people who seemed more trustworthy in polling, it was nixon, for the mcgovern. That hurt him deeply. He was very sad p that. And he realized that now the question was about his character, not nixons. And further, the eagleton story made watergate was one of the factors that kept watergate from being a big story. As mr. Witcover mentioned, people couldnt put watergate into context. Why would somebody break into the headquarters . Nobody thought of it as this broader strategy of sabotage. So the big political story in the late summer and fall of 1972 was the eagleton affair, not watergate. That was one of the reasons mcgovern couldnt capitalize on watergate. All right. Well come back and talk about nixon, whats happening with nixon at this time. But first, let me show you a couple campaign ads from this period. First is George Mcgoverns followed by a nixon ad. One of the reasons im disturbed about the president s 10 million secret Election Fund is that it indicates theres something this hes afraid to disclose. What are they hiding . Im perfectly willing to publish the name of every dollar contributed to my campaign, and i dont see what the president is covering up, but its that kind of thing that puts a kind of a damper on the moral tone of the whole nation. Mcgovern, democrat for the people. I would just like to say a couple of words. I am a democrat for president nixon and his reelection. I can only say the thing that motivated my change was the year of just collecting pure unaffected facts. I want to make this pledge to sammy. I want to make it to everyone here when you happen to be black, white, young or old and all of those who are listening. I believe in the american dream. Sammy davis believes in it. We believe in it because weve seen it come true in our own lives. This is your first vote. And years from now, he just hope you can all look back and say it was one of your best votes. Thank you. Jules witcover, what is happening with nixon at this point in the general election . How is he campaigning . Nixon is coasting, basically. He was he had a very, very disciplined campaign. It was carryover from his campaign in 1968 where everything was orchestrated down to the finest detail. That caution came out of his defeat in 1960 when he made the mistake of go to every stage and just campaigned day it dawn to dusk as a result of that, and he looked terrible. If you recall the debate he had with john f. Kennedy where he looked like he was going to expire. As a result of that, he is and his interests decided that the best way was to limit what he did and on show him at his best. It happened in 68. It happened again in 72. So what was it like for you then to cover the Mcgovern Campaign versus the Nixon Campaign . He was running desperately. They knew they werent catching on. They traveled widely the First Campaigns, they would go back and forth across the country in awe day. And just as humphrey had done when he lost to nixon the first time in 1968, campaigning too much. One of the secrets of nixons success in both 68 and 72 was that his people realized if you gave if you gave Television Just one piece to use on the evening news, make it the best you could and only do that one piece and would do some other trivial campaigning otherwise, whereas humphrey campaigned, as i said earlier, from dawn to dusk. He made a lot of mistakes. He made some good choices. But the most controversial thing, nine times out of ten, humphrey would look bad and this would look good and the same thing applied in 72 with mcgovern and with nixon. So scott farris, what is the Nixon Campaign doing to try to weaken mcgovern . Well, again, theyre sort of hitting him as a radical as somebody without of touch with america, far too extreme to be in touch with the mainstream. In the fray talking about the accomplishments of the nixon administration. Let me talk quickly about why mcgovern thought he had a chance to win. He had a number of assumptions that on the face of it looked pretty reasonable and rational reasons. Again, he thought nixon was unpopular because of his personality but also because of his first couple years had been controversial. He expanded the war in vietnam, and domestically, he instituted wage and price controls. The economy was not doing well in 71. Inflation was a real concern. Nixon then did some things to sort of try to reduce the i flags rate. He also directed Government Agencies to spend a ton of money at the end of 71, early 72 to give a boost to the economy. He then began the deamericanization of the war in vietnam, increasing hi relying on vietnamese troops, bringing more american troops home to try and quell the antiwar demonstration. Then he also tried to counter his own image as a quote warmonger by going to china and establishing normal diplomatic releases with communist china which of all people the great anticommunist Richard Nixon was quite a shock and surprise. He sort of managed it orchestrate events so that his presidency kind of reached its peak in 1972. His greatest accomplishment occurred in 1972 and took away arguments why he shouldnt be supported. Two other quick things about misjudgments he made. He thought George Wallace was going to run again at a thirdparty candidate and would siphon votes not only in the south but this the industrial northeast that would make those states easier for mcgovern to carry. Of course, wall has was a victim of an assassination attempt right before the maryland primary and was paralyzed and wasnt able to continue the race. The other thing misjudgment mcgovern made was significant he thought the youth vote would come out en masse and in his favor especially with the passage of the 26th amendment that allowed 18yearolds to vote. Surprisingly, mcgovern barely won the 18 to 21yearold demographic and lost the 21 to 25yearold demographic to nixon had showed despite all the attention given to students and College Campuses, a lot of Young Americans were still very conservative. We know how the story ends. Mcgovern loses in one of the worst landslide defeats in American History. What is the mood of his campaign of the country at the end of this election headed into november . Well, a hot of them, you know, when youre on a Campaign Plane and youre in this tomb where youre flying around the country and you dont know whats going on in the rest of the country, the people who are on that campaign day in and day out, many of them believe that they were going to win or at least that they could win. The dimensions of the defeat was obviously crushing to them. We need to, as we wrap up this discussion about the general election, we want to move on to the legacy of George Mcgovern. But first, a little bit of the senator from his mcgoverns concession speech. And then youll hear a secret white house recording of a phone conversation between president nixon and then at the time special assistant for national security, henry kissinger. We project president nixon will come out the winner with about 60 of the popular vote and somewhere between 450 and 500 electoral votes. Congratulations on your victory. I hope that in the next four years you will lead us to a time of peace abroad and justice at home. You have my full support in such efforts with best wishes to you and your gracious wife, pat, sincerely, George Mcgovern. Mr. President , ive talked to kissinger and also it will be a few moments where we can get him. Dr. Kissinger. Dr. Kissinger, go ahead, please. Mr. President. How are you . I wanted to extend my congratulations. We all know it was going to happen. We got our 60 . So every state except massachusetts and maybe minnesota, although i think we got that, too. Its an extraordinary tribute. He was very gracious in the beginning. He sent me a wire saying i look forward to working with you and your supporters of peace in the years ahead. I said hell, no, im not going to send him that sort of a wire. Wouldnt you agree . Absolutely. I said he doesnt have the right sense of this sort of thing. You probably know i responded in a very decent way to him. As far as i could tell, im if the going to say much to him. Youre looking at one of the cue cards of mcgoverns speech where he said we do not rally the support of policies we deplore, but we do love the nation. And later on, the nation will be better because we never once gave up in the long battle to renew its oldest ideals and to redirect its current energies among more humane and hopeful paths. Jules witcover, was his concession speech viewed by others as ungracious . I dont think so. I think it took a paranoid personality like nixon to take it that way. And scott farris, your reaction . Well, i think actually pretty gracious. Nixons telegram to mcgovern wasnt particularly warm and fuzzy either. They both knew they didnt like each other. Most people have not gone back and read all the concession speeches in American History. I did that as part of my book. Mcgoverns is a little more petulant. Part of it is when had you lose close, you figure you may get another shot four years down the road. You dont want to burn any bridges. What happened later was more interesting on the date of nixons inauguration in 73, his second inaugural, mcgovern was in eng hand and gave a speech at oxford in which he was extreme hi critical of nixon and said that they had more revelations that came out about watergate. America was in danger than at any point in history. I think that generally was in the realm of what is expected of losing president ial candidates, up the speech he gave in 73 caused a lot of people to criticize him for saying those things. I want to move on to the legacy of mcgovern, what he did after he ran for president in 1972. Put first, let me get ed in here in ohio. Ed, good evening. Ed, turn your television down quickly. Go ahead caller yes, good evening. Theres an important article that mcgovern wrote. It was published in the wall street journal. Its my advice to obama. This was when its when obama was elected. And he went on to say first, when i order all u. S. Troops out of iraq and afghanistan by thanksgiving. Were going to have to leave it there because were getting a lot of feedback. Got to turn that television down. Lets talk to scott farris, pick up that point about mcgovern and his impact on president obama, his antiwar views. Two things about president obama. Again, i mentioned earlier, he created the coalition, the Democratic Coalition that represents the modern Democratic Party as the coalition that did elect barack obama in 2008. And the Obama Campaign in 2007 and 2008 also tended to mirror mcgoverns as an insurgent campaign against Hillary Clinton and by doing the same things, grassroots effort, net roots as well. So clearly president obama followed the mcgovern blueprint to a considered degree. Senator mcgovern said two things. One, hes taken heart that finally an antiwar candidate was elected because president obama had spoken strongly against the iraq war. He had also been disappointed that senator obama and president obama has escalated american involvement in afghanistan, and he has criticized that and suggested that afghanistan could become another vietnam, which is, of course, was the centerpiece of his campaign. Hes provided a good Political Base for president obama and offered him a hot of praise put also expressed concerns as well. Duncan in ohio, go ahead. Caller yes, thank you for having me. I was just curious if you had ever heard of an Organization Called the building roads and whether or not George Mcgovern had ever been to a conference before. Thanks. Scott farris . Nope, i have not heard of that. Okay. As we continue to talk about George Mcgoverns legacy and his post1972 career, i want to show you a little bit from former president bill clinton. Dedication ceremony in 2006, he actually ran the Mcgovern Campaign in texas as many of you know. After that well come back and talk a little bit more about that and this part of his legacy. The only person from south dakota so far to be nominated for president. The United States delegate under president s ford and carter, advocate for disarmament and peace in the middle east. When i was president , United Nations ambassador to the agricultural organization, recipient of the medal of freedom, and with senator dole, the inspiration for the School Funding program. George didnt tell you what happened with that 300 million. There are 130 million children in this world who never walked in a schoolhouse door. Their idea was to say to kids across the world and to their parents, you can have one good nutritious meal a day no matter how poor you are, up you have to come to school to get it, after we pass that little bitty initiative in a trilliondollar budget, School Enrollment around the world the first year went up by more than 6 million children. 6 million futures. George mcgovern helped to make. Scott farris, mcgovern how did he have influence on this . Two reasons. One, he had seen hunger during the depression, in italy during the war and when he took overseas missions as a senator, he saw hunger around the world. So he understood the problem facing america and the world in terms of people going hungry. But as a senator from a farm state, he also understood how this was a marvelous program that matched the Great American capacity to produce food with the worlds need for that food. It was humanitarian but it also benefited him in politics and other farm state senators like dole saw the opportunity in this as well. But one of the things senator mcgovern did, he saw when the food for Peace Program was first initiated into the Eisenhower Administration, it was a way to get rid of agricultural surpluses the government purchased in the commercial commodity credit corporation, i mangled that, but where they would buy surpluses to support prices. Mcgovern found that offensive. Really its a humanitarian thing. Its p feeding the hungry, especial hi children. So he took the feed for Peace Program which was a Minor Program under the Eisenhower Administration and dramatically increased its scope. In six months, he spent six times as much and distributed six times as much food as the Eisenhower Administration distributed in six years. Thats a lot of sixes, i know. Within six months of him taking over that program, 35 million children around the world got a school lunch and within another year, another 30 million did. It was probably it was probably the greatest humanitarian effort of the Kennedy Administration including the peace corps and its really all due to George Mcgovern. We have about ten minutes left here, talking about George Mcgovern. As we told you earlier, we invited senator mcgovern to be on our program this evening. Unfortunately he took a spill earlier tonight and was unable to then join us. Hes been flown to sioux falls, south dakota, for further medical attention. And so unfortunately, he couldnt be with us. And we wish him the best of health. Jake in sioux falls, south dakota, go ahead. Caller good evening. Its actually jack. Sorry about that. Caller Excellent Program 4a the convention, the latenight acceptance speech . Sadly, i dont think so. I think that the conditions that weve talked about tonight were a mixed bag in the campaign, as i also indicated. That for all the support that mcgovern got from protesters in the war, the war in vietnam, this were so many just as many people who didnt look at the war that way. They didnt think it was a disaster. And the attitudes were shaped by a president , president nixon, when played on their patriotism played on their emotions and turned the demonstrations that probably helped mcgovern into almost a National Disgrace in a way that helped nixon. Scott farris, was George Mcgoverns political career over after 1972 . No, he continued to serve the United States senate. In fact, he was reelected in south dakota pretty handily in 1974 even though he had a strong republican challenger. By that time watergate had come about and nixon had resigned. Certainly senator mcgovern felt a bit of vindication. It was unfortunate that his defeat had been so total in 1972 that he wasnt mentioned as a candidate in 1976. In 1980, there was of course the big republican wave that brought Ronald Reagan into the presidency and swept a hot of lot of democrats out of office and in 80 mcgovern lost. But he continued to be active in public service. In 1984 he launched another bid for the presidency. At that point there was a tussle going on between Campaign Manager gary hart and former Vice President Walter Mondale and senator mcgovern joined that thought and got kudos. He tried it heal some of the wounds that were emerging between them in the heart of the mondale scuffle. But he then announced if he couldnt win the has mass or finish in the top two in massachusetts, he would withdraw, and so he did. Hes maintained a very active life in Public Affairs going back to his issue on world hunger. He worked with the Clinton Administration to start the help start the World Food Program which continues to feed many people. Probably hunger and nutrition remains his driving passion today as well as sort of reminding america about the benefits of liberal values and the place of liberalism in our american political system. Lets hear from mitch next in st. Augustine, florida. Caller good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you all very much. Mr. Farris, mr. Witcover, i think you guys have done your studies. And the previous caller that wants to just remind everybody to remember george after quote, unquote, losing an election. I dont think that george lost. I think george moved on to do much greater things much like you folks were just talking about with the world hunger program. George has survived wars, being an antiwar person, yet willing to step up for our country. I think hes a great peacekeeper, and he understands World Politics like we do not understand. My question is for our country, who in 2012 is the closest candidate that can carry up mcgoverns policies . Whos the closest or best option that we have . Mr. Witcover . Its barack obama. I dont think that any of the republican candidates represent anything akin to things that George Mcgovern run for president in 1972 or objectives that hes carried out the rest of his life. Scott farris, what kind of president would George Mcgovern have been . You know, i think he actual hi would have been a pretty good president i guess i base that on the food for Peace Program. One of the things you need to bring to the presidency is a certain executive management skill. What he was able to do with the program that he didnt have a hot of money with, indicate once he has committed to a goal and had a program, he was able to carry it out. Now, he would have become president under difficult circumstances. He would have had a difficult time completely getting us out of vietnam in a way that was acceptable to lot of the American People. I think ultimately, he would have pen a fine president. Of course, its always difficult to speculate. I think he had the qualities of judgment and good will that i think americans want in their president. And the future of liberals . The Majority Party over the last 30plus years. Its a question of whether democrats will certainly get over the nostalgia for the new Deal Coalition. Theres still a lot of people who remember their parents and families growing up in urban america and would like to restore the Democratic Party to that urban ethnic labor union ideal. But i think senator mcgovern realized that theyre more fertile grounds to work in for liberalism and for democrats. And i think as long as the democrats are able to appeal to minorities, to women, to the young and to continue to broaden their base and not exclude anybody whos from a different sort of category, i think that hes shown a way for them to be a viable force. The Democratic Party might have ceased to exist. Let me give this one to both of you. Have you, many witcover, answer first. Will this be another antiwar candidate . This time around . In the future like a mcgovern, in the mold of a mcgovern. Well, you know, i think the thing that differentiated mcgovern from other antiwar candidates, it was in his heart and his soul. He really was against that war and almost against all wars. I think he might disagree with barack obama who said hes not against wars, hes just against dumb wars. Mcgovern was not against all wars either because he fought courageously in one. But you think hes much more determined against wars, and i think if he had been elected, he would have gotten us out of vietnam as soon as he could. It would have been certainly a lot sooner than nixon did with the countrys tail between its legs. And scott farris, you real quickly . I dont believe anybody will ever run as an antiwar candidate the way mcgovern did. I think one of his legacies is he showed the limits of had a president ial candidate can say about a war had america is involved in it. I think, again, people were very unsettled had he was so graphic and vehement and so uncompromising in his language. I think its very indicative that ever since mcgovern, democrats particularly, expressing calling for increased defense spending et cetera because they dont want to be called as due cake is said in 88, im not another mcgovern in foreign affairs. I dont think well hear anybody talk about war the way mcgovern did in 72. We want to thank don simmons, rod brown, lori langland, kevin kengle, head librarian at the museum, also jack mortensen, paul ishofull, jay van took and senator mcgoverns daughter, ann, and thanks to Jules Witcover and scott farris. Scott, can i end with you, your final thoughts if i could since youre the president ial author here. What is the legacy of George Mcgovern . Well, again, he transformed the Democratic Party in ways that very few people in american politics have ever transformed a hit cal party. Of course, his food for peace, the way his humanitarian efforts on behalf of the world and the nations hungry may be his greatest legacy. Who knows how many millions of people are alive today because of George Mcgovern. One thing we forgot to mention, we saw a clip from one of his legacies, bill clinton was his texas coordinator. It spawned young idealists who wept into politics and made a name for themselves. For a man who lost, he probably had more influence on a lot of men who won the election. Scott farris, Jules Witcover, thank you both. Up next, looking back at cspans Video Library at the 1972 Democratic National convention in miami beach, florida. And my