Transcripts For CSPAN3 The Contenders Wendell Willkie 20240712

I stand before you without a single pledge or promise or understanding of any kind except for the advancement of your cause and the preservation of american democracy. And as your nominee i expect to conduct by crusading an aggressive, fighting campaign. The republicans in we want willkie, Wendell Willkie ran for president in 1940. And as we watch some of the images of him on the campaign trail were joined here in rushville, indiana with david willkie. I want you to introduce our audience to some of the fervor were seeing from these Iconic Images of the 1940 campaign that really surrounded your grandfather as he ran for president and tried to defeat franklin dellanor roosevelt, who was seeking a third term. What an exciting time in the country. Here wed come out of entering into the great depression, the end of the hoover administration, eight years of the roosevelt administration, roosevelt was president , right at the height of his power and that opened up a time for a dark horse candidate to come outside of the political spectrum. Keep in mind the state of the Republican Party. This was a party that had been defeated by roosevelt in 1932 as he defeated Herbert Hoover, and 1936. What were republicans looking for and why was your grandfather the one they chose . Nobody else had run a third term before, going back to the time of george washington, when washington stepped down no one even dreamed of running for a third term of the presidency. When roosevelt announced that he did. It just changed the whole dynamic of what was out there. Certainly looking at europe, world war ii, the nazis were just marching, going down to the over to northern europe. It opened up a time where the republicans said, what do we do . Yet it was the Republican Party that had Herbert Hoover, hoping the party would come back to him. Thomas dewey of new york, taft of ohio. Mr. Republican. This is a convention in philadelphia that went for six ballots. But nobody had come from a business side. Nobody had come from the way of how do we create jobs in the economy . Nobody was actually doing that, of any of the other candidates out there, except for Wendell Willkie and he certainly rose up and he had an electric personality, a Magnetic Energy about him that brought people to him. You never knew your grandfather but as you talk to family members who knew him. He died at the age of 52. Well learn more about his life. Why did he decide to run for the nomination . He set the groundwork for a possible president ial bid in 1940. He was always interested in politics from a very young age, even growing up in his hometown of elwood, indiana, just up the road from here. He talked about it in his life, in his childhood, with his parents, when he got to college, to indiana university, it was always an integral part of his life. We are in rushville, indiana, one of the homes of Wendell Willkie and were inside the Historical Society. Well show you around coming up during the course of the program. I want to turn back here and look at this postcard. And david willkie, if you could explain exactly what this is, and maybe representative of that campaign. This is a wooden postcard sent through the United States mail, sent from aberdeen, washington by all the people in the town who actually signed the back of the postcard to say we want willkie. We would like to have Wendell Willkie run for the republican nomination for the presidency. What was that Campaign Like . You had willkie clubs, you had boxes with buttons and banners that were distributed around the country and some of those which are on dis play here. People wanted to have something new, Something Different that they hadnt had before, thats where the willkie brand, the willkie name really started to take off. Here was somebody that had challenged the new deal successfully. Had been a strong proponent of individual freedom and liberty. And people were drawn to the message. We are about a block off of main street, and your mother, Wendell Willkies daughterinlaw, lives just a few blocks from her in rushville, indiana, the significance of this home to your family. It was my grandmother ediths hometown. Although my grandfather grew up in ellwood, when they married this was the place they generally called home. In a large part because in the family my great, great grandfather, ediths father had lost his shirt during the depression. And instead of giving his fatherinlaw a handout, what Wendell Willkie did was to buy farmland here in rush county and asked his fatherinlaw if he would manage it. How much time did Wendell Willkie spend here in rushville . On and off. His family would come back, his wife and son would come back constantly. But during the 40 campaign this was the headquarters. Perspective, indiana, of course in the center of the country, indianapolis in the center of the state. Were in rushville, where is elwood . Well, rushville is in east central indiana, elwood is in the northeastern part of the state, north of rushville about, oh, an hour and a half from here, a little over an hour from indianapolis. In madison county. And why is elwood so important to the 1940 campaign . Well, for my grandfather, what he chose to do in his acceptance speech, to accept the nomination, he held the acceptance speech in the formal acceptance in elwood, indiana and still to this day its the largest political rally ever in the history of indiana. In the books here, the Historical Society, people were honking horns and cheering that the hometown boy was the republican nominee something seen as improbable going into philadelphia. Oh, no question. He was the dark horse. And during that time period, during the nomination speech you had stories of beer cans that were that were many feet high, that were it was such a hot, hot sweltering indiana day that was out there. And so people it was a carnival atmosphere with pins and books and paraphernalia, some that you may see cheer see here today. David willkie, the grandson of Wendell Willkie. Well be checking in with you during the course of the next two hours as we continue cspans contender series, were coming to you from rushville indiana and well be joined by author and historian amity shlaes, the author of the forgotten man and jim madison, a professor of history at indiana university. Well show you what the scene was like in elwood, indiana and the speech by Wendell Willkie as i walk to the next room and introduce to our guests coming up in about a minute and a half. I say that we must substitute for the philosophy of distributed scarcity, the philosophy of unlimited productivity. I stand for the restoration of full production and reemployment by private enterprise in america. The new deals attack on businesses have the inevitable results. The investor has been afraid to invest his capital. And therefore billions of dollars lie idle in our banks. The businessman has been afraid to expand his operations. And therefore millions of men have been turned from the employment offices. Low incomes in the cities and irresponsible experiments in the country have deprived the farmer of his market. For the first time in history american industry has remained stationary for a full decade. I charge that the course this administration is following will lead us, like france, to the end of the road. I say that this course will lead us to economic dictatorship. I say that we must substitute for the philosophy of spending, the philosophy of production. You cannot buy freedom. You must make freedom. [ applause ] from elwood, indiana in august of 1940, to the Rush County Historical Society here in rushville, indiana, and this is one of the postage stamps from 1992, a 75 cent u. S. Stamp commemorating the centennial of Wendell Willkies birth. Amity shlaes is the author of the forgotten man and a columnist, jim madison a professor of history at indiana university. Let me begin with that speech that he gave in elwood, indiana that really essentially set the groundwork for why he was challenging Franklin Roosevelt. Yes. Well, willkie ran against roosevelt and against the new deal, and against the kind of policies and politics that were represented by the new deal. I think well have a Good Opportunity to talk about those in detail this evening. Let me just say that it was a fairly standard political speech but not a fairly standard rally. As david said it was a massive rally. 150, some estimates 250,000 people in this small indiana town in augusta time when, as hoosiers say, you can hear the corn grow. It was 102 degrees that afternoon when willkie took the podium. And he spoke with eloquence. And yet the atmosphere was such that the speech was a bit flat in terms of the audience, in terms of the reception. So it wasnt the best start for the actual campaign. And we now know looking back that it was rather indicative of the campaign itself and of some of the disorganization, some of the difficulties that willkie, the amateur newcomer had, in making his case as to why the American People should vote roosevelt out of office and not allow a third term. One note about the speech, a speech heard on the radio by millions of americans. Millions, yes. This is the time of radio, of course and people sat by their radio sets and listened intently to political speeches. Amity shlaes youve written extensively about the new deal and this is eight years after roosevelt promised a new deal for the American People, unemployment still in the double digits, a lot of concern about the u. S. Economy. Why was this the year that the republicans turned to an outsider, probably the only time in modern American History that a nonmilitary, nonpolitician was the Party Nominee . Thank you. This is an incredible political expression. I do see this speech as an enormous success of some kind because the Republican Party was failing, was failing the country. It wasnt giving an answer to what the democrats had an offer and the democrats as we say werent delivering recovery. The recovery was choosing to stay away. What willkie was, and his popularity as seen on that day, was the expression of the people, the talkback, the gop had never expected a rally like that with Wendell Willkie at the center, their candidate for president a year earlier. So it was a genuine grassroots event of a kind thats fairly rare in the u. S. Where you start way down there and you get to the nomination for president. So let me ask the large question. Why him . And what did he do to try to lay the groundwork that allowed the party to turn to this outsider, this businessman from indiana, who spent some time in new york as the 1940 nominee . It was easy to underestimate willkie, i think, and the professional, longterm career politicians in the Republican Party did just that. They underestimated this fella. He had no political experience to speak of. He never ran for office, never held office, he was a businessman, a lawyer, but very smart and very sophisticated. I think its relevant that his business experience was really, in a way, political experience. He was a wonderful communicator, commonwealth and southern. He knew how to work with people. He knew how to make a case, how to make an argument. The kind of skills that he deployed as a president ial candidate. And yet Alice Roosevelt longworth was quoted as saying it was the grassroots of a thousand country clubs, youre smiling. The Grassroots Campaign is part of the politics of politicking, we the people truly was grassroots in what it intended but willkie was not really an ordinary, common man, he was a very wealthy corporate lawyer and businessman. He was from he had an agricultural interest but he wasnt a farmer. He said he farmed by conversation, not by actually farming. So he was far, far from the grassroots but he tried to appeal to the grassroots of america, the people at the grassroots. Amity shlaes, lets talk about the 1940 convention for a moment. This is a convention that had people like governor harold staszen, the governor of minnesota, longtime president ial candidate, Herbert Hoover, former president who was hoping the party would turn to him one more time. Tom dewey as we talked about with david willkie, and you had senator robert taft, who was hoping the party would turn to him. We get in trouble when we draw analogies buzz dewey was the prosecutor from new york who overrated himself and we often have new yorkers come out and think theyre going to win, especially when they have a legal background. Taft was mr. Republican, people had heard about him before, taft was a name. We had a president called taft. That was not particularly new and Herbert Hoover was a wonderful man of talent who had become a great vanity and was getting in the way of the progress of the party because he kept wanting to run again but his time was probably fast and probably past. And whats exciting about willkie was a very young man went to hear Herbert Hoover and he couldnt bear the idea that hoover would hog the nomination, hog the party and said let it be willkie, let it be someone ive met and heard about. In that way willkie was grass roots. He was not of the grass entirely, as an attorney, but he was chosen by people who were revolting against the party. And the other names we named were the party. And willkie came in, dark horse, somebody different, not who we expected. I think they were tired of unexciting men. For many people, which of these, none of the above. So its a perfect atmosphere for a newcomer, for an outsider who promises, and looks very different from the standard republican standard barer of the late 1930s. What was the state of the democratic party, amity shlaes, and Franklin Roosevelt and his support in 1940 eight years after the new deal, at a time when most president s would step down . Well, tongue tied because roosevelts victory, 46 out of 48 states in the preceding election was so hard to get past, and even as the party was beginning to get past it, this idea of having a third term, the war was coming closer, war in 1940 had already been declared in europe. Germans had invaded poland, britain. So all of a sudden, roosevelt, just when youre going to say roosevelt cant run again, you know roosevelt was a naval president. He was good at war. They knew that. They knew him from world war i when he served the secretary of the navy. He might be a good war leader. So all of a sudden people bit their tongue, or were tongue tied, and didnt protest against roosevelt. But still it was quite amazing that here they were for a third time. In fact, professor madison, the headlines in december of 1940 with Wendell Willkie as the republican nominee. Hitler moving into france as well declaring the victory, the big question was, as you pointed out, Great Britain next, juxtapose the politics of 1940 and the looming clouds of war. It worked very much to willkies advantage that france surrendered to the nazis a couple of days before the Philadelphia Convention began and as amity said, that turned americans attention very forcefully to this war in europe. They didnt want to be a part of it but they knew it might mean they needed a wartime leader. And roosevelt looked a lot better in that context than did any of the republicans. We are coming to you in some of the scenes from the Rush County Historical Society in rushville, indiana, about an hour from indianapolis and one of the homes of Wendell Willkie. He was born in elwood, indiana which is to the north of us and as always as we continue cspans the contenders series, our focus is on Wendell Willkie. We want to hear from you. If you live in the eastern or central time zones, 2027370002. There are so many images from that campaign. Ticker tape parades that we dont see in modern campaigns. Why was that significant, and what does that tell you about the support that Wendell Willkie had from certain sectors of the public . Theres no television, of course, so the candidate really has to get out there and the people, willkie spends a lot of time crossing this country on train. And retail politics. In towns and cities all across america, with all the hoopla, with all the stuff that gets people engaged, that gets people excited about the campaign. Was Franklin Roosevelt worried about Wendell Willkie . I think he enjoyed it. We find, if you go back, he says im not going to pretend this is an unpleasant duty for me to campaign. Franklin roosevelt was a warrior, and willkie was a warrior, and both of them girded and enjoyed that process. But yes, he respected willkie as a contender, from the beginning. You see him dropping comments here and there, that one im worried about. Unlike the others. Thats a real contender as well. So he was ready for the battle. Were going to hear from Franklin Roosevelt in just a moment. Who was behind the willkie campaign . Who are some of the names our audience might be familiar with . Willkie had the good sense or the good fortune to meet people in the publishing and newspaper business in particular, people who had who bought ink by the barrel as they used to say. Russell fortune, the editor of forbes magazine, orita van doren, the book editor of the tribune. These people in the publishing world liked him very, very much and were very, very strong behind the scenes in advocating and working for willkies nomination and election. He was a democrat, Wendell Willkie, before becoming the republican nominee. He had more credibility as an outsider, he supported the league of nations, he was a wilsonian, he backed newt baker, a political comer, a democrat up to 1935, you can find documents with willkie associated with democrats. But that in the way gave him more power because he was a dark horse, because he wasnt a party man and because he had become a republican out of conviction. He saw from the inside what was wrong with the democratic philosophy of government when you look at the beginning of his career as a businessman he thought he was a democratic utilities man. And then he gradually came to see that the government was hurting the private Utilities Company and he grew angry. So it was speaking truth to power. Thats what willkie represented. And it was real. He really was angry at what happened to his company, and his shareholders commonwealth and southern. So there was something fresh about it. It wasnt canned. Hed seen his shareholders lose money and his company be hurt. Thats different from someone whos observing from the political sphere. And based on your book, the Unemployment Rate in 1940 was what . The Unemployment Rate oh, the Unemployment Rate in 1940 was ten or below, so its above where we are. Its a little bit muddy because youre moving towards world war ii. But the average Unemployment Rate for the 30s was in the teens. Thats the important thing to know. Some people say 14, some say 16, its the difference between terrible and awful. We wouldnt accept it. And it was so long. Wendell willkie talking about unemployment and jobs on the campaign trail in hoboken, new jersey, were going to listen to part of that and then a conversation, part of the recordings of president roosevelt in the oval office from october of 1940, as Franklin Roosevelt discusses the willkie challenge. Things that struck me as i was driving up the streets of hoboken, frankly every store as franklin one of the things that struck me as i was driving up the streets of hoboken. Was that frankly every store window, that is vacant store window, has pictures of my opponent, and his associates on the ticket. I dont know of any more appropriate place to put those pictures. [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] Franklin Roosevelt in the records from 1940. First of all, Franklin Roosevelt the politician were hearing a little bit of that in this reporting. Its probably never hide anyone in the white house who was more of a wild politician than Franklin Roosevelt he was superb he practiced with the skill and ability and success that has few if any rivals. Wilkie of course had the misfortune of running against that skillful politician. I want to follow up on that point. What was Wendell Willkie consistent on the issue in the 1940 campaign . No he wasnt, few politicians are consistent on the issues. Especially on the heat in a campaign, a campaign that started to go badly for him. Disorganization, the chaos, the difficulty of challenging roosevelt. In the last weeks of the campaign, he moved towards positions on war and on the new deal that he might not have fully agreed with. That will more harsh, more then was the true when the wilkie. He was inconsistent but you cant downplay his success. He won more votes in that election than any republican had ever won. Electorally, roosevelt was that fox and had a large number of electoral votes relative to wilkie on the popular vote was much narrower. 22 million versus 27 million. Wilkie got much roose closer to the democrats and republicans had before to the tape we just heard of roosevelt. I want to mention that roosevelt become worried, thats where you see worried, thinking about all sorts of things. We will hear tonight another tape where he was worried about whether he could use wilkie mistress as a fact to beat him in the election. Theres a lot of stuff going on, they are beginning to take the wilkie candidacy seriously. That was a feature of the campaign. Its very important girlfriend, that wilkie had. His intellectual read event. Talk more about her, you also write about her in your book. On a different note, lets get your phone calls, again the number is for those of you in the eastern and central time zone for those in the mountain and pacific time zones we are in rush filled, indiana. Home of when the wilkie, his home is literally just about two blocks, maybe three blocks from where we are. The first call is corrupt from ohio. Welcome to the conversation. Thank you and good evening, this is a great program. I really hope that a lot of people do take advantage of this Great Service that youre giving to the American People. My question is, i have a couple. The first one, being in the suburb of ohio, known as i wanted to know a little bit more about Wendell Willkie role as an attorney for a Goodyear Tire company . Where he during that time was heavily involved in the city democratic politics. My second comment, with Wendell Willkie being the dark horse candidate at that time, in 1940, do you see history repeating itself 72 years later . With the emergence of cain as the new dark horse for the Republican Party, with no political experience. And a business background, hes starting to look better compared to governor romney, governor perry, and all of the others that are basically career politicians . But you bring up could to good points lets first talk about ohio. He grew up here in indiana, went to ohio. Ultimately ended up in new york. Ohio was a key part of his career. He followed the economic growth. Thats what happened. So why did he go from indiana to ohio . Because rubber was there, because tires were there. Whats astounding when we think about our cities now, when he got to ohio, he couldnt find a bedroom. It was that pact in the boon, the automobile boom. He even parked on a chair the first night if you read it in the biographies. It was so tight growing so fast, with the automobile industry. In a way, that tells you a lot about what he was for, he was for economic growth. From there to new york, first with the law firm to serve a new industry, the intranet of their day. Utilities and then to head that Utilities Company. Herman cain was on the fox news channels today, one of the channels was the Republican Party has not nominated a businessman since Wendell Willkie you have a direct connection today with with the colors point was. Later when he appeared on the fox news channel. I always like when people make connections between president they politics or issues, and the past. Im a little reluctant to do that, except to say this, its still too early to identify the dark horse. At this point, in 1939, in the fall of 1939, very few people had ever heard of Wendell Willkie many thought he was a democrat. He didnt emerge until the spring of 1940. Were following the format here, we have to wait until spring of 12 to know if we have a dark horse. One obvious difference, the conventions of 1940 are very different from the conventions in 2012. Its the outcomes less certain than now. Because they really didnt have we seem to be more settled in our primary system, when they get there theyre counting it up what they already have. Joining us from washington, will talk about the president ial campaign. When the wilkie the 1940 republican on many. Go ahead run. Thanks for taking the call, and having the series. Outstanding. I want to provide corrections or clark for curry clarifications. Was a statement that that roosevelt was the first president to take the third term, actually Woodrow Wilson is documented in the biography may have been delusional, but he contemplated it, even after his stroke. Secondly, historians can correct me on this, im pretty sure roosevelt, fdrs assistant secretary of the navy, not full secretary. [inaudible] wilkie was not the first nonpolitician republican on many. I would classify hoover, being in that category. Even though he did hold a cabinet post of secretary of commerce, he was never elected politician, nor did he serve thank you. Ron thanks for the call and thanks for the points. First on, Herbert Hoover and also Woodrow Wilson. Hoover was secretary of commerce before he was the 1928 nominee, Woodrow Wilson the point about whether he was serious about a third term, in 1920. Im just writing the biography of cold ridge so im in the pill period where wilson is ill after his stroke. Wilson and wilsons crowd thought about a lot of things, it was clear to the party, that he couldnt be the next president. Thats a little bit of a different category, we didnt say roosevelt was secretary of the navy, he we said he served the secretary of the navy. We appreciate the callers precision. Indeed. James is joining us next from stanford, north carolina. Go ahead please. I just wanted to comment in the fall of 1940, when the wilkie did a whistle stop tour through florida. I happen to be listening in and training in florida, he came to melbourne, he was on the rear train. And a crowd of 50 or 60 people, i had the opportunity to shake hands with Wendell Willkie, either september of 1940. I its a comment i want to add. Its very interesting, im very happy. Do you remember as you saw, what you saw it when you saw a campaign . Any impressions . I was a kid of 18 years old. I was in awe of heres a guy who could be president of the United States. I really looked up im 89 now, i was 18 years old then. I was a kid, i was visibly impressed. He made a majestic appearance, on the back of that train, it was really something. Very very special. James thanks for the call, these are some of the images that the audience is looking, at the crowds swarmed around Wendell Willkie. He also used the media a couple of points that nbc radio carrying almost 30 hours of the Republican Convention in philadelphia. Television was introduced in the 1940 convention, viewers in new york, a few other cities could see the 1940 convention. And of course, the Republican Party put together some ads that were used in Movie Theaters around the country. Politics is always changing, theres always new techniques and new possibilities, and new media. He was very astute and using that, it was part of his experience as a businessman to use the media. And to work with public relations, and opportunities, and ways of making a case. He was excellent at. That helped by again, the kind of people he had around him, in the campaign who were the best of the best in the media business. He was not a farmer, but he went after the agricultural vote. He did, the agricultural vote is very important, still in 1940. There are very large number of farmers in america, and theyre very important, they vote. Foreign policy and Agricultural Policy is central to president ial elections. Any president expecting to have a chance of victory, must Pay Attention to that. Thats why we see these photographs of wilkie here in russia fill, standing in front of a cornfield. Or in front of pigs, all the hogs in this city began to pose as soon as the camera showed up. Because they were so accustomed to wilkie and the hogs and the corn, as objects of four top fours attention. Hes wearing a suit, an extra farmer. As he inspects the corn. He never actually he was quite honest. One of the nice things about him, he was honest. And all sorts of way. Including never actually pretending he was indeed a farmer. The nature issues in 1940, what were they . They were the war. Are we going in . Do we have to go in . If london is to be bombed maybe we have to go in, even though we remember that world war i was such a horror . Thats got to be number one. War always trumps economics. To, the economy, the recovery that had chosen over and over again to stay away. Those are the big ones. I want to add one thing about wilkie, we know the phrase happy warrior, from the democrats. Roosevelt, smith, to be a happy warrior is to be a winner in politics. Wilkie was a happy warrior, though he could get a bar or two in, it was basically not a vicious man. What the gop had learned in the thirties, was just they failed through bitterness. They failed through the liberty lead, all the attacks on the new deal will bitter and angry, not of experience or truth. He represented a new way of being for the party, not just a smear at roosevelt, but to take him on with facts. Without too much harm. So that was a big, i dont know if you call that media or character, i call it character. Gone with the wind, one of the many movies popular still in 1940. If you want to Movie Theater in 1940, you very well could have seen this id put together by the Republican National committee for Wendell Willkie. Whether you are in oregon or florida, a farmer in new jersey or california, or a week grower, you have a right to know how well your republican candidates are president and Vice President understand and the personal interest. For this purpose, this Motion Picture has been produced. The two most talked about men in American Life today, are the central figures of this farm picture. When bill Wendell Willkie ive indiana, and mick miry of oregon. Mr. Wilkie visited with the family of one of his operating, louis. At his left is mary, who succeeded the League Father in law of mr. Wilkie as manager of the farm. Its a hot day and mr. Wilkie refreshes himself at the before his turban specks and begins. He doesnt let up anything stand in his way, these are not high parker states, these are practical corn forms. His interest in americas young people is genuine. In them, he sees the future of america. From the Republican National committee, i want to ask you, he described himself as a liberal. This is an important point to understand, liberalism in the 1940s is very different terms than how we view it today. When wilkie said liberal, he met the liberalism of the individual. Your individual rights, your human rights, thats a big issue for him. Not the liberalism of the group, not the progressive block. He saw an opposition there. Thats quite different from liberalism thats progressive, where we have blocks, such as farms, such as veterans, such as senior citizens. We hand things on to them, thats what he was seeking to find. Especially in the middle of the thirties, later thirties as he was coming a political personality. 1938. Richard joining us from florida. Go ahead with your question. Yes, you mentioned the Important Role of publications houses in new york, i recently visited the special collections at georgetown university, and went through the files. I was very struck by the role in the campaign of people like john whitney, william jackson, the managing director director, investment bankers. And william in the chicago area, i would like to know if you would talk a little bit about their role in the campaign . More broadly, the level of support from melbourne and Whitney Companies in new york. That stem from mr. Wilkies time in new york and 49 and maybe before that. Thank you so much. Which are thanks for calling, it was 1939, he passed away in 1944. His years in new york and the people who supported him. He was a corporate man, he worked that southern, which was a company put together to wire the south in the United States. It had a Corporate Mission and business mission, and service mission, the other corporations they were on wall streets. They all knew each other, it wouldnt be surprising if you hear names like that. Associated. But not all Establishment Republicans with money where for wilkie. On the contrary, many were for the other names we heard. It wasnt as the wall street decided and he was in very late, some of them came around when he would be the candidate. Thats a different. Youll see people jumping in at very varied points. The sale of the tv a and that impact that it had on window wilkie as a businessman and his your government. Can you address that issue . What happened was its a story really that starts in the twenties. The south is dark, the rest of the country is beginning to be lit up. How do we light up the south . The company was put together to supply the answer, we will do it. A bit of governance orchestration, because we had different laws in the states than, they thought they could do it, they went on the stock exchange. That was when the dow jones first started, the utilities index. That was the internet of the period another view coming from the government from the center of knowledge, the government should supply the power we light up this south tennessee value created. Wilkie found himself as the head of that company, in a wrestling match with david lilian one of the heads of the tv or. Who would light up the south. And wilkie said an epic meeting at the cosmos club, the gentleman lawyer from indiana, and the gentleman lawyer from indiana. Because it had the tva went wilkie they were at the cosmos club trying to make friendly like two lawyers. And wilkie essentially said, lets split up the south my company will do some and your company will do some. Lillian lets go back to his diaries, he doesnt get it, what the governments going to take over it all. That was the battle that was wage through the whole period, eventually much of commonwealth southern was sold to the government, thats what were speaking of, the big check with the photographs. Wilkie was declared a victor, and the shareholders of covenant commonwealth and southern got money from the government. Was it really a victory . Or was it the annihilation of the private sector in the marketplace of the future utilities. Purchase price of 75 million dollars. He got a big track and he took it all around to show his friends, it was exciting. Im not sure it was a victory for the private sector or even for the shareholders of the utility company. Ruth is joining us from new york city, we welcome you. As we look at the life and career and campaign of Wendell Willkie. Go ahead. Thank you so much, it seems like during every president ial election cycle, politicians and pundits will invoke Wendell Willkie name. Im curious and your pinion, what it was about his candidacy that still resonates in todays political environment . I would say ruth, its the freshness, its the news, thats inevitable with the dark horse standard that weve been talking about. This is someone who was so different from tapped and the others. So vital so energetic, he seemed so honest. One of my favorite little stories about him, at a time even then, when religion was at times important and candidates were expected to be churchgoers. Wilkie when asked, said i generally sleeping on sunday mornings. Thats a honesty that many people found refreshing in 1940. There is a piece that i want you to comment on, its in the adjoining room from in 1968, and it could be another year of window wilkie . A year in which republicans were dissatisfied with the expected nomination of richard nixon. We have every spew cycles the Republican Party in particular, tends towards the when it gets tired of itself, someone comes from outside. Its also that the Republican Party is more affiliated with business and enterprise, and enterprising people tend to turn out to be republicans. Because there from the private sector. That will always be a factor to. But who was the 68 republican youre thinking of . That was the article. Did he come . He did. He never came. Were still waiting for window wilkie. He excited democrats to, because he pushed roosevelt over into the war. To put it simply, he saw the war had to happen because of what was going on in europe was wrong. We had to help fight the bad nazis. He was on the cause of, on the right side on that. So thats refreshing, whatever party are from, when someone comes in and towels speaks the truth about an important and difficult issue. I think people will thats what people remember. That he forced roosevelt to do what roosevelt knew was right to do. Which is to go into war. He made roosevelt be a better roosevelt. More from wilkie as he talked about the point, liberalism, and also the roosevelt new deal. This another from the Republican National committee, a series of films used in Movie Theaters in 1940. The opposition, have attempted to picture me as an appointment opponent illiberalism. I was a liberal before many of those men heard the word. And i fought for the reforms of the and Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson, before another roosevelt. Adopted and distorted the words liberal. American liberalism does not consist fairly and reforming things, it consists primarily in making things. We must substitute for the philosophy of distributed scarcity, the philosophy of unlimited productivity. I stand for the restoration of full production and reemployment an American Private enterprise. The present administration has spent 60 billion dollars, the new deal stands for doing what has to be done by spending as much money as possible. I proposed to do it, by spending as little money as possible. This is one issue of this campaign that i intend to make Crystal Clear before the conclusion of the campaign. So that everybody in this country may understand the tremendous waste of the resources and money that have taken place in the last seven and a half years. As you hear, you see him campaign, your thoughts . The first is that that liberalism, which he describes, which he did french from progressivism, modern liberalism. What we say liberalism when we hear it on television. It goes all the way back to the germany of his family. Because his family left europe in 1848, or soon after. As basically social democrats, or liberals, to get away from militarism. Thats a european liberalism, which is all about the individual, and freedom coming straight through down as a tradition in the United States. Some of us would call wilkie the last liberal, because he was the last big Classical Liberal in u. S. Politics. Like that. Reagan didnt call himself a liberal, maybe he sometimes called himself a libertarian. The world change in a meeting in the u. S. That was the first. The second, the economic sophistication of what he was saying. That does come from him, from the point of view of the farm, productivity is really important that we not only make the widgets but we make them better and that will increase the standard of living for everyone. Instead of redistributing, which is the alternate. Thats a very clear accurate and sophisticated economic argument. Its not about just helping the middle class. Its more complex than that. More complex than what we hear from politicians in this campaign so far. He is a columnist with bloomberg, and he teaches history at indiana university, our next call is at from morristown, new jersey. Go ahead with your question. Good evening, did he feel he got an appropriate level of support in the general election from his nomination rivals . Taft, hoover, do we. And there people or was he to reasonable arrived in the party to engage the leaders the way a veteran republican politician would have . Professor madison, youre shaking your head no. I dont think he got a kind of support he wanted or deserved in the conventional politicians. A little it comes from the senator from indiana, james watts, who said on hearing of wilkies nomination, its all right if the town prostitute wants to join the church. But she shouldnt be asked to sing a solo on the first sunday. Wilkie was an outsider to senator watts, he was an outsider to many of the professional republican politicians. They never ever trusted him. They never got behind him. To go back to that speech and indiana. Just north of where we are here. He said, you republicans. How did that resonate within the rub humble can base . Some of the notice that they were called you rather than us, we. Because he wasnt a republican hero tip prior to that speech. He was a democrat. Charles, joining us us from savannah, georgia. Thank you, thank you for doing this program on wilkie, i think its very important because i believe he was far ahead of his time of any issues. First of all, civil rights he was a great advocate of civil rights, and if the country has followed his lead on that issue we couldve avoided a lot of strides and dissension that we had a leader decades. During the war, he was a great advocate of ending colonialism, he wanted to prevent the European Countries from reestablishing their empires in the third world, particularly france and indochina. We hadnt stepped into the true shoes of the french and indochina we wouldve avoided the tragedy of vietnam and the war in all of that. Finally, i wanted to mention as you heard in the acceptance speech that wilkie gave, he was a great believer in the idea of government should not be the enemy of business, but the way to fight unemployment was to encourage investment and growth. That would be the only way we could get jobs in the sector, thats still relevant to what were debating about today. Hearing the channel discussion about those points. Thank you charles, go ahead. One thing that really resonates from one world, when we look at it today, that was his book that sold so tremendously well, about this time. When you went to the middle east, he said, the colonials here are two dominant, when they withdraw there will be a vacuum. There will be nothing for the people to turn to, we need to help them build democracies. The u. S. Had a much more cynical cavalier attitude towards the middle east, and weve seen whats resulted. When you hear the protesters in the middle east today, you go back and think of the areas remade in the forties and fifties. Not taking that seriously, squandering opportunity. His description of terror, the number of babies that died because the water wasnt clean, the tyranny of the regimes, very much gets close to what we see now when we go to many places in the middle east. What we have been able to address systematically. He was and so many years ago, even in one world it strikes you. John from indiana. We welcome you please go ahead. Within six months of the election of 1940, wilkie was totally unpopular with the republicans, mainly because he had adopted roosevelts Foreign Policy. As pro war. And the Republican Party just ostracize him completely, no matter how well he did in the previous election. When he toward europe, for roosevelt, he went over asia. Republicans hated that, the regular republicans, i think of all stripes. He called his campaign on Foreign Policy statements, as campaign oratory. Before a congressional hearing in 1941. He ran again in 1944 for the nomination, but he had so embittered the republicans that by becoming roosevelt almost Foreign Policy agent. That he had no chance against do we. But he really was pro roosevelt in regard to Foreign Policy in the purposes of the campaign, he took a really opposite position, but after the election he came around and really endorsed roosevelts Foreign Policy. Endorsed lease went over to england, to tour on behalf of roosevelt. In 1944, roosevelt and wilkie had met and i think roosevelt wanted his endorsement, wilkie held off and then before the election he died. So he never endorsed dewey or roosevelt. The Republican Party you bring a number of key points. Thank you by the way for phoning in. Were gonna talk about this book one world, and his post1940 campaign visits tear up. And his relationship with Franklin Roosevelt, you brought up the 1940 fall campaign. Lets touch on that point if we could. In the next hour were going to focus much more on the second part of your phone call. The 1940 fall campaign, he went in with such great promise did not have a lot of the support of the republican establishment, you touched on this earlier. Basically what happened . How did this unfold . We need to acknowledge, im not sure that weve done that yet, that roosevelt did have liabilities going into that campaign. While he had won in a landslide in 1936, the Congressional Elections in 1938 produced i think, 81 new Republican House numbers. Voting against roosevelt, voting against the new deal. There was a Court Packing plan, which created a lot of bitterness, even among some democrats. And then there was, as weve talked about, this notion that the two terms was enough. Thats all that was good enough for washington, it would be good enough for roosevelt. And thats more than just following the rules, thats indicative of what some of his critics, within the democratic party, as well as republican, thought about his arrogance, his power. And the Big Government that he had, created so, roosevelt had liabilities in 1940. Wilkie, a republican, might have been able to beat him. Maybe wilkie was the best possibility in doing that. Wilkie didnt do it in part because he was so inconsistent, by the end, they said he was running against his own former positions as much as against his opponent. Yet he didnt have a track record politically. But he was pro union, he was with john lewis, he supported the war, that was against, it then supported it. He was quite and consistent. I thought about this a lot, trying to figure out wilkie. I decided that the best way to see him is not a wonderful attorney. Who takes the bestcase, that clarifying case, and speaks truth to power about it. The case for the market, and the company, was the one he made at the end of the thirties. In the campaign, he took several different cases, all good ones, which conflicted with one another. Later tonight, well talk about some great cases he represented. That we still price today. His positions on what he did, do us jurisprudence. To see a consistency there, like hes an idealogue, he always stood for free market, or he was always for war or know where. Its not there, he is a often right, often county in the switch. That didnt make for a Perfect Campaign however. And that did hurt him because by the end they could see he was like roosevelt. As we move into our second hour, we want to show you another piece of film. This is from the Republican National committee as a way to try to frame the childhood and roots of wilkie. Will come back and talk to david wilkie, his grandfather. And so wilkie in 38 years ago, a mergers in response to the greatest demonstration of spontaneous support that our country has ever known. His grandparents, like the ancestors of millions of americans, plant the autocracy of europe to find liberty in this country. Here, his parents first talk school and then pack practice law. Well he was born in a modest home, like millions of americans. He went to the public grade of high school, just like millions of americans. Its hardworking parents wilkie went to when success in law and business. Just some of the scenes from outward, indiana, the birthplace of wilkie. David wilkie is his grandson, many say that the resemblance is pretty amazing. First of all, do you think that you look like youre grandfather . Not quite exactly. If i look at myself in the mirror, i think of myself as my own person. What kind of a man was your grandfather . Describe his persona and what your family views in his politician . Just physically, he was a large man. He was some called him a big bear of a man, actually his brother was a heavyweight roman rico greek oh roman wrestler in the olympics. As far as home he always was castle he would put on a suit it would immediately become rumbled. He could ever keep his hair straight it was always his wife would have to get a haircut. He wasnt so worried about those outward appearances what he was worried about was the idea. How do you convey the idea . Whats important about it . How do you win people over to your side . Explain his indiana routes and also where he went to college, and how he began his career here as a lawyer . He grew up in indiana an interesting thing about him and his parents, and his family. Not only was his father a lawyer, but his mother became one of the first attorneys in indiana. And her first case, was against his father. Husband and wife against each other. At the end of the day, his mother won. Not surprising because she was a true driving force in the family. Most of the family, well all of them, his siblings went to indiana university, they live together. They were a vibrant part of the community. Of indiana university, loved being on campus, the intellectual conversations that came out of there. You had people that became governor of indiana, that was also there at the same time. And was friends with him. After he finished up and university, he took a job in teaching history and kansas. He also coached basketball, i never think of him as being the athletic person, but coming from indiana, i think thats one thing that we have we always like to think of ourselves as basketball players. He did that for a time, before coming back to indiana university, im going to law school. When he went to law school, he was always challenging the thought process that was there. He was the top of his class, and at the end, when he graduated he was giving the speech to his whole commencement class. He chastised both the indiana general assembly, the legislature here in indiana. But also the Supreme Court at the time. It was so scandalous that the university didnt know what to do, they delayed giving him his diploma, for several days, while they debated what to do. Eventually they let him go on. He was always want to challenge the status quo. Unlike some of the earlier figures that we have featured here on cspan, were not moving into the radio film and television age. We have a chance to really hear these individual speak, and wilkie seem to have a very strong speaking personality. Can you elaborate on that . Yes absolutely. He was always forefront, he was drawn to the cameras as you see during the clip that youve shown. It was a new medium, and he relished and it. He relished in talking about different ideas, to both in clash to a conversation, but then on the larger stage when people were paying attention to him, its almost that he got more energized along the way. Your grandmother was edith wilkie, how did the to meet . They met at a wedding, actually here in indiana. Just right up the street from where we are now. They were both in a mutual Wedding Party together. He was drawn by very, she was a librarian by training. And intellectual her own right. And there was a natural roman stat flowered. We are coming to you from Richard Lugar rushville indiana, the grandson of republican president ial nominee, one of the 14 individuals at cspan is focusing on in our contender series, today were looking at the 1940 campaign, as Franklin Roosevelt, seeking a third term, Wendell Willkie the outside, are getting the republican nomination on the sixth ballot in philadelphia, i think we have more phone calls coming up in the next hour. Our two guests here from the rushville Historical Society, and the author of the forgotten man, and Professor James madison. Lets take you to the scene here in rushville rushville, in november of 1940 just down the street at the german hotel. Many of the reporters gathered to follow the 1940 campaign, as window wilkie came out to declare that president roosevelt was in fact going to be elected to a third term. He could see to the election, and we will follow that with the conversation we had a few weeks ago with indiana senior senator, dick lugar, on wilkie and his Republican Party politics. People of america, i accept the results of the election with complete goodwill. I know they will continue to work, as i style, for the unity of our people, in the building of a nation all the fans. In the aides of the britain, and for the elimination from america of antagonisms of any kind, to the end of the freeway of life, so we may survive and spread throughout the world. After that, he really became an ambassador for the United States. I had a friendship with Franklin Roosevelt, something the prospect of that, in which it was not a bad loser, he was just a winner, in terms of our country. His ability really to influence public views, in other countries, about the United States, or, correspondingly american views, so that we would not become isolationist, and not become withdrawn. In the thoughts of senator lugar, and how he saw the Republican Party and just a portion of when it wilkies conception speech, from that short for that we saw, it appears as though he expected to lose. Well, the Campaign Began to go against him in october. And so, the results i dont think were shopping at all to wilkie, or anyone who is following the campaign. Postelection, this relationship began to really grow, between president roosevelt and mr. Wilkie. Its quite amazing, olive roosevelts relationships with others are hard to nail down. But wilkie and roosevelt did moves closer and closer together, until wilkies death in 1944. Particularly, in areas of foreign pod policies, particularly in supporting Great Britain before the United States went into the war. Amity shlaes . One thing you notice when wilkie goes to europe on a tour for roosevelt as he is ambassador, the famous tour in 1942, is that he repeats the same behavior he did at his law school graduation. Roosevelt has kindly gave wilkie estate, he goes to meet with stalin on roosevelts behalf, and what does he do, he hears something from stalin that stolen wants a second find in the war that he needs help. And wilkie says, maybe europe needs a second front. Well that was not the u. S. Policy at all to have a second front. So he was dissing, the person who he was representing, he was an ambassador who dissed his president. And roosevelt did not like, that churchill did not agree with that being the plan, he had he did not have a second plan for stalin, so that was the up starting. Wilkie up hold it and as he saw, when he got to russia he said well these people need help sooner, they cant wait for the armies to march up and so on and so on. So throughout his life he plays that role. And roosevelt to roosevelts credit was able to manage most productively an upstart wilkie. We are being joined from phoenix, arizona, good evening. Yes, good evening. Id like to point out to your audience that youre getting very onesided economic argument on tonights program from your panel. Amity he is entitled to her opinion, shes a wellknown historian, she is saying things about the new deal, she has several time repeated on the tonight program that because unemployment was still in the low teens in the 19 forties that the new deal had failed. I would like to point out, that miss shlaes books she concedes that the new deal had worked. She writes, quote, the spending was so dramatic that finally a function that had came as hope it would. And within a year, unemployment would drop, from 22 to 14 . And about. Now, granted 13 14 is still too high as of 1940, but to say that when roosevelt came in the unemployment in the midst of the 20s, and to the can see and deficit spending had reduced it to the low teens, your marking it is a failure, it is unfair. Miss shlaes made a career repeating these can arts and i just thought to pointing out to your audience, thank you. But thank you for the call, will give both our guests a chance to respond. Amity shlaes . Well i dont think we need to get to personal about, this whether you are a democrat or republican, we see both parties, the obama administration, and average Unemployment Rate for the figures of 13 . Its not acceptable now whether or democrat or republican, of the cans ian spans, it wasnt that much can see and spending in this because the government wasnt that big until we got to world war ii. The spending had some effect, especially at 36, so the caller is sort of excising a little bit of what i wrote and giving an interpretation i did not intend nor was visible in a text. But anyway the thirties were about period the government didnt bring recovery, either by the unemployment metric nor by the doubt that we recovered. We sort of appeared to recover by the war but nobody calls a war recovery, its a war. So thats all there is to say. I think the new deal was phenomenally successful, my grandfather was a dirt poor former, at the beginning of the new deal, he was at dirt for former at the end of the new deal. But in his barn, he had a framed photograph from roosevelt, mailed up. He always called him mr. Roosevelt, with respect. He wasnt a historian, but as a historian i think the new deal achieved great prosperity and necessary regulation of government. I dont think thats a central question you wanna talk about tonight, i would much rather talk about wilkie after the election, because i think its a very interesting issue to cover. Lets get to that point, in just a moment, we will get to william from florida, go ahead please. Yes, just as a footnote to the history of the 1940 campaign, one of the most politically courageous, strong reporters supporters rather that wilkie had in the 19 forties, was a friend of mine, a longtime mayor and probably the best mayor of the city that we had. He was a center of the new york state, which was a political empire, and that took a great deal of courage to defy the entire state of the establishment. Unfortunately, when wilkie loss, he went on term to drive him out of political life, so he tried to help wealthy, and he kept going to get a 1940, four and eventually they said to him well my mistake was that. But it should be remembered that he had a very very Strong Political supporters in the center of new york state, and a friend of mine, and i would like to put that with no to the whole thing. William, thank you for calling. You bring up an important point. The relationship in 1940, and in 1944, between do and window wilkie. Not a happy relationship. I dont think they ever reconciled, nor as we said earlier, as any politician. The best indication of that was in 1944 Republican Convention. No one bothered to invite wilkie to speak or even to be a delegate, he was not there, he was exercised by the party. Another aspect of the roosevelt administration, the land lease program, what was that . Before we went to, and we agreed to help. So we gave money, loaned money, to europe to sent arms, so that england could defend herself. That is the simplest way to put it. And then, eventually we went into, our pearl harbor, and that was an important spending program. That is an example of one of the things thats happening in these periods, its up until 1938 or so, 39, roosevelt is fighting with businesses, he is chasing them. Keynes said roosevelt chasing business, especially utilities, why dont you either nationalized them or leave them alone . What is the use of episodically chasing them around the law and, every other week . So he was always a tiger and then suddenly he needed business to wage his war. And instead of being the enemy, the occasional target, there you they were in the white house, making aluminum, not being prosecuted, making votes, making material for europe, and for the u. S. , and that was an important change for business. So they knew they were ali as of the government, instead of antagonist. And that is an important feature in the recovery that. So in early 1941, and when he travels to london, how unusual is it, first of all, four republican or democratic president elect his republican opponent to do this . Very unusual. Wilkies traveling as a private citizen, but he carries a letter of introduction to churchill from roosevelt. And wilkie, sees london at a time when it has already been badly battered by the german lufthansa, he goes to the cliffs are the artillery guns, he sees the cathedral, he gets a real sense of what this who are really is for england. And what the english people, the british, people are doing to stand against hitler, alone. And he brings that message back, he brings it back to the senate, and he makes a very powerful case for helping england through this. And here is a portion of his testimony, went to wilkie before congress. If we ought to eight britain, we should provide her with five to ten destroyers a month. We should be able to do this directly and swiftly, rather than through the regular legalistic interpretation. Now, im as much opposed as any man, to undo cancer traced enough power in the chief executive, and may i say that i did my best to remove that power from the president . Personally, i would have preferred to see congress weather through this bill or through others instruct the president to lend all these things. Amity shlaes, for barrier of 1940, one what was the country going through and what was wilkie thinking as he testifies before congress and realize what is happening throughout, europe especially in london . Well, when we came out of world war i, this is a country that came out of world war i inside never, never again. The trench warfare is senseless, there were 30 of more of the veterans who were disabled in some way, from world war i. And americas said its mind against, it and yet, when we had the evidence, and thats what wilkie was bringing home, of what was happening to britain, so like us in many ways, and the evidence of hitlers utter audacity with poland, and on and on, suddenly we knew we had to help. So that was a big emotional change for the u. S. , that was a reason for the republican isolationism. There was a sense to the league of nations, and there was a sense to isolationism because world war i had been so incredibly wasteful of lives and of resources in every way. But there comes a moment where you have to step in and wilkie crystallized that for us, thats what he did, it is a crystallization of the need for our entry. Richard, joining us from san francisco, as we look at the life and career of window wilkie. Go ahead, richard. So, ive enjoyed tremendously your authors book on the new deal. There were a lot of books written many years ago, but she has taken up those that have some doubts, but one of the previous scholars kind of attack to from the left, id like to attack you from the right. I dont understand the love affair you have with window wilkie, i just dont comprehend it. In the case of Foreign Policy, particularly after the war started, he was an absolute disgrace. And going into the soviet prairies, without warning, looking at the labor camps, and saying how wonderful conditions were, it was just a bit much. And i would have thought, that the republicans would have been better served by someone who hide a little more level head, as far as our International Commitment was concerned, particularly, after the beginning of the war. At the same time, i think its a bit much to champion a republican through the base, really, it was very resentful of. So, anyway, thats my two cents. Ill hang, up and listen to the comments of the author, thank you. Richard, thank you for the call. James madison is that sentiment pretty typical of what the republicans feel . A lot of republicans wouldve said pretty much that thing, and that sentiment, in maybe stronger words. They call wilkie naive, they felt he was taken in, he was just a tourist, the soviets especially manipulated hand, specially a chinese, he was an experienced and just not up to the level of international diplomacy, and knowledge. And yet, he had received more votes than hoover in 1932, and off landed in 36. He had received a lot of votes for someone to alleged that he had no support. This whole party, this whole Television Show is a love affair with window wilkie, because he is interesting on a number of levels, that doesnt mean he is perfect. That doesnt mean he is consistent, as we said before, hes like an attorney, he moved from case to case. And those cases are not always consistent, in the forgotten man, book he spoke truth to power in a 1938, narrative lee that was important for that book. But every book is different. But i do like window wilkie, we will all persistently like hey, we make a Cartoon Version of the forgotten man, and the artist, who is an expert cartoonist made a bust of window wilkie, he got so inspired by him. Theres something about wilkie, inconsistent as he is, a disappointing as he is, that is very alluring to people. I think because he talks about whats possible, not merely whats realistic, so hes an aspirational figure for us. At many points and in many different ways. Professor professor smith whos been working with, us said essentially well he is a personification of this 14 part series, and individual that Many Americans not know a lot about, but had a very Significant Impact in his time. I think thats a very good point. And let me follow up with what amity said there, because i think it is best wilkie brings us to our better natures. Wilkie asked more of us. And thats one of the things that i like most about him, he holds out the ideals of america. And ultimately, the ideals of the human race, and the condition of the war. So, theres a lot to like about wilkie, even if you might when i think hes a little naive and uninformed at the times. Vale next, from mountain georgia, go ahead. Hi, thank you, i take you back to the glamour and excitement of that day, in philadelphia, at the Convention Hall i was there. I was there with my father. Who had a unique and law at the convention, he sort of orchestrated what was known as the stampeding of the gallery. And as a kid, i was up there with instructions on the queue to rise up and begin the chant of we want wilkie. And of course, this is before television, television had just come on the scene, but it was foreman asheville standpoint, particularly, for the delegates to hear this lock is crowd on the gallery, stampeding a convention. It put them in the mood, although it did take a number of ballots to ultimately nominate when the wilkie. So it was fun, i have never forgotten the experience. Bill, thanks for your call. We should also point out a 26yearold young republican from michigan, general forward, also in attendance. And he talked about that in 2000, as he went back to philadelphia for another Republican Convention. Thats right. Thats right. Did you want to talk about the excitement that wilkie generated, in the 1940 convention . No, i think were down with a topic. Well go to all of our next, from massachusetts, go ahead please. Hi, id like to comment on cspan, one of the greatest things on television, i did not know a lot about one to wilkie, this is very interesting. I seem to remember his name was spelled with one l in my history books, but i want to ask miss shlaes, a rita, his mistress, you talked about her, was she related to charles army, or others . She was related to those van doren, and she was the exwife of the literary, i have a nation magazine, and the reason shes interesting is not just for gossip, its because she was his means. And we talked before about wilkies political identity, what is a liberal and so on. Well, he began talking to this literary editor, at that newspaper, now rita van doren, and she had him on a little course and told him to write about the english Classical Liberals, and the wigs, and what was awake, and all of these things. Because that was his way of thinking what was wrong with politics, in the u. S. And it was too much about groups, and too little about individuals. And he started to write his articles, he started to talk to rita, and he got his political bearings, and he began to speak politically, and right politically, and not just write articles, but also begin to write manifestos, and to meet the people, who then began to back him. So sometimes someone comes in your life, who is a transition person, and a readout without any disrespect to the wilkie family, was for him at that point such a person, and helped him to clarify these ideas. And just drop intentions in your book she was also invoked in the colleges book tour. Yes, a readout is a wonderful book editor. And she edited many of these people, there are figures who appear over and again, in coolidge, and i discourage as i read the biographies. And its great advertising genius. Spartan, who wrote of coolidge, who represented the silent majority. Silent majority is a phrase we might associate with wilkie a little bit. We certainly associated with the nixon time, with a silent majority, and that came out from an original republican idea, in 1920, with barton running of coolidge. So theres a connection that you see with a literary, people the shapers, the thinkers, the market, or is the intellectuals around, the politicians, and those people last a long time, sometimes through many candidates. I want to listen to one more piece of sound from roosevelt recording, set this up as hes in the white house trying to figure out whether or not his relationship with a reader van doren should be brought up as a campaign issue. Well this is a time when it was not common to reveal those relationships, reporters knew about those relationships. Other politicians had them. Including roosevelt himself, of course. And the gentlemans agreement was that you did not write about that, you did not report that. Whether roosevelt was going to use that, try to use that against wilkie, in this campaign, as i think what this take is about. And this is again, one of the recordings with president roosevelt, on the relationship, the affair, of what wilkie was having with rita van doren. Professor jim mattis, and two points, playing dirty politics, the word from that conversation, and the president of the United States ordering whether or not either working was hired to come back in campaigning for her husband . On the second point i think all the evidence is that edith loved her husband, and remained with her husband until the very end. Its also the case that after when it wilkies death several years after, he gets wilkie hut a party in her apartment in new york city. She invited a redo van doren to the party. These were adults, behaving in an adult ways. Not waste at any of us needs to approve, but thats their life in their personal life. The other point to make, i want to make, as amity was talking about rita vendors relationship, certainly it was a romantic one. But it was a very, very important intellectual relationship. And she was exceptionally important to his thinking and to his politics, and to his life. Well go next donald, joining us for utah, go ahead please. Yes, im curious as to why why no wilkies relationship with madam chang hasnt been discussed. Well you just brought it up so well talk about it. What about meddling tang . Well leave that to International Scholars to track what happened in china, and there is 48 hours and the one hour alone, where the journalists waited outside. Thank you for putting that ball in there. I think the answer is we dont really know what happened. We know that this is on the one road trip, late 1942. Including a stop in china, a visit with madame schengen his husband, and we know that at one point in the evening wilkie and madame shag, left by themselves and were gone for several hours. There has been statements by some people, but there was a relationship there, and the evidence from that is very very tricky. Again, as you just indicated, that was part of the north africa, russia, china one world tool that led to the best selling book one world. Explain the significance of this second trip, in 1942, four window wilkie . Roosevelt sent wilkie on a tour, he went all over the world, including to china, also to russia, to see stalin, also to the middle east. Often to places that were also a little bit tricky, close to the battlefield, they could roll around to the front in american jeeps. In russia, actually, the russian general he said when are all you defending here, and the russian general said, were not defending, were attacking, excuse me. So he was close, right at the battle, and that was an important fortifying expression of hope, and support, from the u. S. To these countries at the time. China, in play, at the time, thick trip. And the book that he wrote, one world, i was an enormous success. And did not just sell a 50, 000, or 100,000 copies, i believe its old close to 1 million copies. And david lilian, the old antagonist from the tv, if you look at the correspondence in the lilly library, or other documents, asked why until how come your book sold so well . The other politicians, everyone was in awe of what an imprint the book he made, with a concept of peace, now one world, and why that happened, we were now in the war . Pearl harbor had happened, we were in the war. And everyone, a very soon, was thinking about what kind of piece we should have, after. Thats what professor madison book sketched out very well. One way, in world war ii, people were framing how to make the world, hopefully, make it safer for democracy, and make the next war, or the next world war not come quite so fast. Britain wanted to do the monetary create all the ideas that you heard about from the late forties our formulating in peoples minds. And wilkie was one of the first formulate ors. David wilkie regular and fathers book, it is Still Available now, why did it resonate, so much so, in 1942, 43 . There were several reasons, that it resonated. Number one, is that he took it upon himself to visit all different war fronts at the same time. Here we were, in the second world war, and if we think about that time period, no one person had traveled around the world, nobody had reported to the American People the struggles of different people around the world, why were we in this war, why would we keep going through this war . And i want to go back to some of the conversations that we just happen between amity and jim, and talk about my grandfather, and his development. And overtime he did develop, he did change in his thought process of what he went through. And i think the American People to, if you think about the American People going back and looking at them, looking at the American People during the depression, and moving through into world war ii, this was a different place. And thats when one world came into play, here is a viewing to different parts of the world that people hadnt seen before. People hadnt traveled outside of their farms in a way that the people were able to do now, and so easily. And to talk about these faraway places whether its baghdad, whether its being on the front with montgomery in northern africa, all those places came into play, in fascinating ways to people. Let me give you a sense of what their people country was dealing at the time. He said america is like beleaguered city, living with high walls, i have been outside those walls, and then he tells the story of what he saw. He has, he continued on to talk about, at that time, one important saying was the National Boundaries were becoming less and less important for countries, in and of themselves. And it was more commerce that was ruling the world today. And thats what i think the connection that we see now, is how that commerce really does come into play, you see that now in the national discussion, even here, in rushville, indiana you, have a company that is selling things to halfway in the world in baghdad, right now. That idea that wilkie had during those time periods, is much of the world that we live in today, and that is described in the book. If our audience is interested in reading the book, book that was published seven years ago, how can they get a copy . They can email here to the Historical Society, i believe that the email address is up, rush historical at frontier. Com. And and let me take our audience back just a couple back, to the home we were growing up in husker, here in rushville. This is the same home where wilkie came back and talked about his one world tour. But i want you to remember, that we can only have one president , at one time, and one Foreign Policy, at one time. It does not sit good to say that the United States does not react to hypocrisy, or to subterfuge, the United States at this critical moment could act from such. The isolationist originally exposed opposed the expansion of the nation, the expansion of our mind, the opposed to passage the oppose disservice act. Its the policy which they advocated. Have been adopted, the United States today, would be facing nazism in a world conflict in which we might be destroyed. David wilkie, i see your grandfather, just a few blocks from where we are in a Historical Society, and the message he was delivering, those residents of rushville, indiana, in 1942, your thoughts. Well he wanted to bring this to the American People, to middle america, to say that there are those other places that become so important. And i think its common wisdom right now, if america had not entered the war at the time that it did what would have happened with, europe what would have europe look like . Would hitler continue to have gone on in his conquest . What would have stalin dunn kind of following up on that, so for window wilkie, to be here in russia will indiana, if he couldnt talk to the people here in rush phil, he thought this was most important to go to other places, cities, throughout the country, it would be much harder to do. In his remarks, 70 years ago, this month october 1942, did the book faced criticism . It did. It did sell millions of copies, many people liked it very much. But the criticism was deep and and doors, in a sense. America was, as weve said several times now, a very isolated before the water. And there were many during the war, that still believed that america was best as america alone, and not part of some larger entity like an international organization, the un as it came to be. No. There are Many Americans of this generation who had never been out of the country, who had never been out of the state, or even the county in which they were born in, so the provincialism, the lack of knowledge about the world is central to what wilkie is trying to do in this book. Explaining in clear and forceful language why the people, the farmers of russia, for example, he says it is, how the farmers of russia live not very different from the farmers of rush county, indiana, they are human beings, and we have some obligations and self interest and large interest to understand that and act on that. We want to thank the rush to Historical Society for hosting us here tonight, we will continue to provide with an email, if you wanna get more information about window wilkie or if youre interested in getting more information about purchasing the book, one world. Wayne is joining us, from north carolina, good evening. Hello. Yes please, go ahead. Yes, im the last surviving i think member of the Roosevelt White house staff. I was there for a couple of years, i was in the mail room, i read the incoming mail, and the entering into the war was a very heavy issue at the time. The public was very very much against it. We received from seven up to 15,000 letters a day, most of which opposed entry into the warm. Only per horror turn the Public Opinion around. But also, lets go back to the election, wilkie gave his concession speech, i will never forget, how tired he sounded, how heavy his voice was, when he said i tried my very best to defeat roosevelt, and i could not do it. And he apologized to the nation, for not doing so. So i just want to make a comment, that i was an actual person involved in the issue at the time. Wayne, thank you, youve added an important dimension to our conversation. Another amazing call. I wanted to mention one thing about one world, the anti you and people, hey did it, because it does lay out the framework for you name it international are gonnas a shuns of all kinds. But theres also a fixed strain of democracy and it. So you see how many impetus it takes, as it came out of wilkie one was internationalization, some of us are less hot on that. But the push for democracy is very important, right up to today. And that is the astoundingly modern part, of one world, when you read that. That he sees through the governments to the people, whether they are in russia, or in the middle east, with that democracy deficit, that we spoke before. Its very similar to the analysis, we have today of the promises of the world, to finding a way to democracy for people to windows violence as we saw with coffee, did we declare victory for democracy or not . You heard president obama being a bit violent about that, because we dont know, we decided we think its probably good for democracy but its a hard call, because it was so violence. When bill was looking for these things in one world as well. Well go to kevin, in california, and we will follow up in just a moment. Go ahead kevin, thanks for waiting. High could you have your guest speculate on what happened when if wilkie wouldve won the election . Well go to professor madison on that point, and to follow up and many chalets. As much as i love wilkie, i am glad he did not win it, this is not counterhistory, we dont know what would happen if he won. I think we ought to be pretty good, rose with was a better wartime leader, far more prepared and experience to lead the nation in comparison to wilkie. Next call is kevin. Well go to michael next actually, in north dakota, go ahead michael. Yes, i was a little late getting to the program, but as i understand it went to wilkie has never held political office. So it made me curious as a Vice President ial nominee was chosen for political experience, to help balance the ticket, or how he came about to be appointed . Thanks for the call, one of when i look hes first choice, was not elected, and so it came to the Party Establishment to come to when the wealthy. How did this come about, and who ultimately did he choose . Well, mcnamara was a traditional republican in mary ways. Far more acceptable to the ranking oregon party, and to that leadership, so i think what the caller guest, is right on. Jim, in washington d. C. , you are next. Yes. Very interesting program. I would like to address two questions, that were not already possibly answered. One was when a wilkie was named in a news week articles in the 1967, as a model for a candidate that year, the model was he was a candidate in the Republican Party primary, but he dropped out because he made a remark about the vietnam war. He was an industrial executive he had american motors and that really served in public before. But he ran in the early days of the republican primaries against nixon, and that of course did not win. But he did serve as the governor of michigan. Please go ahead, continue. And the other ones a quick, one of the other candidate, or the other president who ran for the third term was u. S. Grant, he had been president for two terms, step down for a turn, and was a candidate of the Republican Convention in 1880. He lost to james garfield, so that is yet a president who did seek a third term. Thank, you for the call. Amity, and also we had Teddy Roosevelt who ran for another term under a Different Party after he left the white house. Very much involved in this, with coolidge, because coolidge served under harding, and hardening unfortunately died, coolidge was president , Vice President became president. And then in his own right, 1924. So he put another term, example same issue confronting roosevelt, easy call, a republican, democrat, always runs against when they are popular again the incumbent. Coolidge chose not to run. As defame is decision by coolidge, which is normally attributed to personal depression, or exhaustion. What im discovering, it when you research to coolidge bio, is that he chose not to run because of george washington, because absolute power corrupts absolutely. Because he saw that over time, and executive gets too used to the office, and that was a concern that people had over fdr, that wilkie was the expression as well. That you do become too much, you say the state is me, the more you serve, the long you serve in the office. You can get more information by logging on cspan. Org and clicking on our website to contender series, or the contenders not cspan. Org. And you will get more on this program, and our 14 week series. Looking at president ial candidates will run for office, lost, but changed American History. Next is helen, joining us from new jersey. Go ahead please. Well, im a College Teacher my students have been assigned to watch and they will be so envy instead im getting to speak with amity, i loved your book im looking forward to the coolidge book and my question is, what was the percentage of the electorate that came out to vote in that election . Was it a big percentage or not . And again, cant wait to read the coolidge book. Thank you. Thank you, would you have the Electoral College totals, and when i was a landslide for roosevelt. But we dont know their share of the turnout. And we apologize for that. Were gonna supply that, on our website, were sorry hail and we owe you. But there you see the results where wilkie received over 22 million votes Franklin Roosevelt just over 27 million votes. Jim madison. Well it wasnt a landslide as amity said earlier, wilkie did better than his republican predecessors. But it was a clear victory for roosevelt. They would wilkie, another aspect of my grandfather, his view of civil rights in this country. 20 plus years before we saw the Civil Rights Movement led by dr. Martin luther king. My grandfather was certainly ahead of his time when it came to thinking about civil rights and the rights of our people, it was part of his creative code, but one of the places that i wanted to show you, was just a campaign piece, in the 1940 campaign. Where he talked about just race for relations, in a very direct and wrong way. And this was an advertisement that was used in African American press at the time. Of how he reached out to that part of the electorate. And again, were trying to always get a sense of what is going on in the country, and let me ask you specifically, in this part of the country. In indiana, the kkk, in its role, in the society here. Certainly the kkk had a very strong presence, here in indiana. There was a major push to push them out, especially within the Republican Party. People like the honky family was instrumental in that. With also following on the wilkie footsteps. Of what came to be this division in small towns, there was African American populations, certainly in this part of russia, and still continues to be. And throughout all towns. But, the racist did not make stay didnt intermingle. There was always a fearful nature of it all. And that is from window wilkie, not only in his thought process coming beforehand, before the election, but also afterwards, and what they were looking throughout the world on the one world tour. What about this aspect of his view of domestication and civil rights . I think david is being modest about his grandfather position on taylor rights. He was well in advance, just about everyone, every notable person in this country, perhaps, miss roosevelt, eleanor roosevelt, could be the exception. He was very much ahead of his time, on civil rights. And it comes out to some of the things, same things that we read about the, world about democracy, anti colonialism, he was strongly opposed, he insisted that colonialism had to disappear in the name of democracy. He insisted that equality around the world could only be achieved if there was equality at home. So he connect that this International One world idea with the necessity of justice for all in the United States. And he walked the walk, he spent a lot of time working with the amcp, he worked with hollywood filmmakers to remove the racism in the hollywood films in the thirties and forties, in all sorts of ways when the wilkie was an advocate for racial justice, of a supremely important advocate long before most americans white americans held that position. John, from columbus ohio, you are next. You guys just took the words out of my mouth. I was just about to say that, you know. I was just about to say what did wilkie say about the African Community africanamerican community, at the time, thinking how racism was, how the kkk was, you guys just took the words, wow this is exactly what was about to say. But i also want to say one thing, i love watching your show, the contenders, because i learned every day, as a young African American male, with my family, a young family, that owns a home, and i try to teach my stepson, and my daughter, about the history of president ial sayings and people who come up. And i tell them every day, you can make, it you can do it. And im just thankful that you guys have this show on here, and talk about this great man that i dont know anything my granddad hes 89 years old and he tells me things about people history, and about america, but im so glad that you guys said that about the African American community in indiana, which was a racist star about the language it was very races towards African American, at the time, in the 1940s. And i thank you all so much for bringing this up. And please, keep going. Thought john, thank you. David wilkie, hes talking on his grandfather, and what about your grandfather as you hear that . Well, he thought that everybody was responsible from their own meritocracy, of what they would do for their and lives. And that was part of his dream, its that anybody, anywhere in the world, should have that individual, freedom that was a core part of his value, he thought that if you help somebody, someplace else in the world, it would come back and help you. But it was through the hard work and struggle that we will better ourselves here as americans. Joining onto the Race Relations arent, certainly, he had a long, even after he died window wilkie, he was housed in a wilkie Freedom House inequality. They kept the mantle that was there just because he was so far out in front of every place else, as jim mattis and talked about, being in hollywood and pushing the ideas of race equality, certainly as we look at what came up in the fifties and sixties. One would think, what wouldve been different if wilkie had become president . And the other question is with this Republican Party except a window wilkie, his brand of politics, we asked a question to senator lugar, republican from indiana. I doubt whether when the wilkie would win today, in part because he was what i would call a moderate. He was a person, really was looking for the best of the whole country. And it was not the same sharp partisan fever attached to his candidacy, or his rhetoric. He had very sound business attitude, and thats why he was successful, and he understood the American Enterprise system, and job creation. The thing thats very important to us, as we try to look at economic recovery now. Amity shlaes the senators of lugar, and his politics and Republican Party today . Wonderful comments from the senator, i would beg to differ on the question of whether a businessman candidate would resonate today. He would. Maybe its cain, maybe it someone else, but what there is among people on both parties, is a desire to go down to the bottom level, to find someone who started a firm, or works for for him to come from outside to look at the economy, not from washington, so very similar mood. When you had a long period of non recovery, you look outside of washington for the answer. Quite similar, and thats why someone like that would get a reception i would argue. He ran again, in 1944, briefly. And not at all successful. Again, as we said, because the republican establishment just had no use for him, because of his continuing support to roosevelt, after the 1940 election. In fact, there was some talk, not much more than talk, of roosevelt who had his own troubles with some of the democrats, especially frankly roosevelt, and when wilkie came together and form a new political party. Now thats an idea to think about for the future of america. Our next call is erica, in washington d. C. , go ahead, please. Hi, cspan, thank you so much for doing, this its a great show. I just had a policy question, if we go back a little bit. I think i understand this saying that when wilkie had economic background you do know if theres any specific advance or ideas that shaped his foreign policies, prior to the events to world war ii, how he came back in from the International Trip . The Foreign Policy of wilkie . I would mention his family background, and their own experience that wilkies own experience fleeing depression militarism. There is a story that the wilkies tell of the grandfather being beaten for no reason by oppression soldier, to express that type of authority, they deplore and came here to the rule of law, bookies were lawyers. And that comes through the children, especially, window. So you see. German americans who sought freedom, and wanted to preserve freedom. David wilkie did you want to respond to that collars point . Well it certainly within the family, thinking about when dole and his life growing up, being part of world war i, in his time period, in the army. Opened his eyes, the intellectual life of the family. When a window true, up in the whole family, his father would wake up his children, by reading shakespeare books every morning. And thats how they would start their day. So it was a constant era of intellectualism, thought process, to make him look around but outside his own surroundings outside of indiana. Duncan joining us from roots town, ohio, go ahead please. I was just curious about any relationship milky may or may not have with . Are you familiar with that . I know he defended huey lawn, from criticism and government or charges against him. As wilkie defended, we have not talked about this, he defended all sorts of individuals who were on popular, he defended american nazis, he defended american communists, again, this is his kind of liberalism. The freedom of speech, their freedom of thought, the right to be an american, and hold many different kinds of views, very different from his own views. He was, in my judgment, a great hero. And a great patriot, in that regard. Born in 1892, david wilkie how did your grandfather passed away, at the age of 52 . He had a series of heart attacks at the end of his life, certainly in the living at the time he was a workaholic, he just never stopped. Die, it exercise, genetics, all that we know much more today, about those things, certainly played a role in his death. I think window wilkie was an exceedingly hardworking person. He was 24 7, he also lived hard, he smoked, he smoked heavily. Ive seen pictures of him with camel cigarettes on the desk, and we know what kind of coughing those are. He drank heavily, specially in his later years. He did not live what we would now understand as a healthy life. And david wilkie, just a few miles from what were looking, at correct . Yes in the eastern cemetery, its a beautiful sight that was described in the new york press as being looking out over the prairie, although were not quite prairie here, open side. And at the cemetery site, there is a bookstore in stone laying out talking about is creed, and how he lived his life, and what wilkie thought was the future of the world, and what it should be. Talking about the ideas that we mentioned about equality, about america being the place to be, why . Because you could dream. And in america you could make those dreams come true. Amity shlaes if you could ask him what question, what would it be . How do we bring our country together this time . So that we have a political process that yield economic recovery. That we get past calling each other names, to formulate a policy, that gets the country to grow again. Hugo joining us from connecticut, welcome to the program. First of all, i may wilkie, and my grandfather grandfathers. Farm i was ten years old, at the time. But i do remember distinctly, both of these personalities. My grandfather worked in a newspaper in the country. But i wont get into history. He was an fdr republic, and my grandfather. My grandfather was a socialist, but thats beside the point. The point it i was terribly impressed, as a young boy, this despair. And i was always in the political environment, intellectual environment, educational, historical, its that era, in my family, but this man impressed me a great deal. And frankly, he was a reason as i became eligible to vote, that i became a republican. What disturbs me today is that the wilkie republicans, the first time i voted was for eisenhower, when i was able to vote. Subsequently, i became a young man who spoke to Republican Club members, in new york. And subsequent to that, out of disillusion i lost my contact with the Republican Party. And i had to say this, because there was so many elements in the Republican Party personified by window wilkie, and others, that impressed me. And i was just wondering, among your panelists whether or not they could comment on one we have lost the essential i dont put this in political terms, but ill put it in humanistic arms, how we have lost the fundamental understanding of what capitalism is, Political Association with capitalism is, and ultimately the nature of whats going on in our Society Today . Particularly among the voters. Hugo, thank you for the call. We will talk more about the personality and political career of thomas dewy, as we bring you our live coverage from the Roosevelt Hotel in new york city. But to the colors point. I understand what the caller saying, i think. And there are days where i would agree with him, overall most of the time, although i do not agree with that pessimistic view, im still a Great American optimist. Oh my optimism is to hope that there are going to continue to be candidates, offering these choices, that when the wilkie offered us in 1940, especially the wilkie after 1940. David wilkie, what was your grandfathers legacy . Well there are many aspects to the legacy, certainly there is the thought of the commerce, as we discussed before, and to the callers point, thinking about does politics and business, do they have a place at the same table . Coming together . As we look right now, in the Economic Times that we have, i would argue definitely yes. And thats part of his legacy, theres also the legacy of thinking about Race Relations. Thinking about what it means to be a citizen of the world and understand how the rest of the real effects is here and places like indiana. All of those comey together to say yes, can i slider come in, and rise to the highest levels . I would argue, yes, yes it can happen again. And amity shlaes, why is looking important . Change the game, hes a gamechanger, counted it, there will be more wilkies. Hes not the last wilkie, thats what were saying tonight. Amity shlaes all right for bloomberg, the author of the forgotten man. And James Madison author of history, at the indian intercity, here. And david wilkie, the grandson of a window wilkie. And to the rushville Historical Society. We thank them for allowing us to carry this program, from here, in rushville,. And as we look at the life and career of window wilkie, he passed away in the fall of 1944, here is how the news reflected on his life. Why no republican candidate for the presidency of the 1944 election, taken suddenly at the height of his figure, at 52. Nominated by popular claim, in a phenomenal overnight rise of political eminence, well kill windy won the admiration of his countryman, for his energy, honesty, and courage. He spent the last years of his vigorous life, in an effort to promote Mutual Understanding and goodwill among all nations. He talked with churchill in london, and shared experiences with britains average folks. He visited on top of the people of russia, middle east, and china, renewing a strong facing unity among all people. A Great American, and world citizen, will be solely missed in their critical years ahead. Watch tonight, beginning at eight eastern, and enjoy American History tv, this weekend every weekend, on cspan 3. Up next in American History tv, the author of the women behind the new deal, the life of friends to spur case, fdr secretary of labor and moral conscience. The author spoke at the book festival, held on the national mall