Transcripts For CSPAN3 The Contenders Wendell Willkie 20240712

I stand before you without a single pledge or promise or understanding of any kind except for the advancement of your costs and that your cause and that of democracy. [applause] i expect the republicans, in we want wilkie, and as we watch on images of him on the campaign trail, we are joined here, in russia indiana, with wilkie. I want to introduce her audience, to some of these iconic images, of the campaign, they really surrounded the ground or thought. He ran for president , and try to defeat roosevelt, who is seeking a third term. The end of the hovered ministration, going for eight years in the result administration, roosevelt was president roosevelt right at the height of his power, and that opened up a time for a dark horse candidate to come outside of the political spectrum. Keep in mind the state of the Republican Party, this was a party that had been defeated by roosevelt in 1932. Off landed in 1836, so, what were the republicans looking for, and why was your grandfather the person they chose . Well nobody else had run for a third term before. Going back to the time george washington, when washington stepped down, no one had even dreamed of going for a third term for the presidency. When roosevelt announced that he did, it just changed the whole dynamic of what was out there. Certainly, looking at europe world war ii, the nazis were just marching, going down, over to northern europe, it certainly opened up a time for the republican to say what do we do . And yet, it was a Republican Party that had hoover, former president , who is hoping the president would come back to him. You had thomas, of new york, you had senator taft of ohio, mr. Republican. And this is a convention in philadelphia, that went for six ballots. But nobody had come from the business side. Nobody had come from that way, how do we create jobs for the economy, nobody was actually doing that or any of the other candidates out there, except for, when the wilkie. And he certainly rose up, and had an electric personality, and a Magnetic Energy about him that he brought. You obviously never near grandfather, but you talk to family members who knew him, he died at the age of 52. We will learn more about his life. But why did he ultimately decide for the nomination . Because he did set the groundwork in 1939 for a possible president ial bid in 1940. Oh, he was always interested in politics from a very young age, even from growing up in his hometown of yelled, would indiana, which is just up the road from here. He talked about it in his life, in his childhood with his parents, when they got he got to college and Indiana University. It was always an interim part of his life. We are in rushville, indiana, one of the homes of Wendell Willkie. We are inside the Historical Society. We will show you around coming up during the program. I want to turn back here and look at this postcard. If you can explain what this is, it may be representative of the campaign. This is a wooden postcard sent through the United States mail, sent from aberdeen, washington. All of the people in the town actually signed the back of the postcard to say we want willkie. We would like to have Wendell Wilkielkie run for the presidency. What was the Campaign Like . You had your willkie clubs. You had boxes of buttons and banners. They were distributed around the country and some are on display here. People wanted something new and different that they had not had before. This is where the willkie name started to take off. Here was someone who had challenged the new deal successfully. He had been a strong proponent of individual freedom and liberty. People were drawn to the message. We are about a block off of main street. Your mother, Wendell Willkies daughter in law, lived a few blocks from here in rushville, indiana. The significance of this home to your family. It was my grandmothers home town. Although my grandfather grew up in elwood, when they married, this was the place they generally called home. In the family, my great great grandfather had lost his shirt during the depression. Instead of giving his father in law a handout, what Wendell Willkie did was buy farmland. He asked his fatherinlaw if he would manage it. How much time did he spend in rushville . On and off. Especially while he was in new york. His wife and his son would come back constantly, but during the campaign this was the, headquarters. We are in rushville. Where is elwood . Rushville is any east central indiana. Elwood is in the northeastern part of the state, north of rushville about an hour and a half from here, a little over an hour from indianapolis in madison county. Why is elwood so important to the 1940 campaign . Well, for my grandfather, what he chose to do to accept the nomination, he held the acceptance speech in elwood, indiana. Still to this day, it is the largest political rally ever in the history of indiana. In fact, in the books here at the Historical Society, they said the people were honking horns and cheering that the hometown boy was the republican nominee. Something that seems improbable going into philadelphia. No question. He was the dark horse. And during the nomination speech, you had stories of beer cans that were many feet high. It was such a hot, sweltering indiana day. So it was a carnival atmosphere with pins and books and paraphernalia. Some of it you may see here today. David willkie, who is the grandson of Wendell Willkie. Well be checking in with you over the next two hours. As we continue the series, the contenders, tonight we are coming to you from rushville, indiana. In a moment, well be joined by author and historian amity shlaes, the author of the forgotten man, and jim madison professor of history at, the university of indiana. We are going to show you the scene in elwood, indiana, and the speech by Wendell Willkie as i walk into the next room and introduce to your our guests coming up in a minute and half. I say that we must substitute for the philosophy of the scarcity, the philosophy of unlimited productivity. [applause] i stand for the restoration of full production and reemployment by private enterprise in america. [applause] the new deals effect on business has had the inevitable results. The investor has been appraised to has been afraid to invest his capital. Therefore billions of dollars, lie idle in our banks. The businessman has been afraid to expand his operations. And therefore millions of men have been returned from the unemployment office. Low incomes in the cities and irresponsible experiments in the country have deprived the farmer of his market. For the first time in history, american industry has remained stationary for a full decade. I charge that the course this administration is following will lead us like france to the end of the road. I say that this course will lead us to economic disintegration and dictatorship. I say that we must substitute for the philosophy of spending, the philosophy of production. You cannot buy freedom. You must make freedom. [applause] from elwood, indiana, in august of 1940 to the Rush County Historical Society here in rushville, indiana. This is one of the postage stamps from 1992, a 75 cent us stamp celebrating the centennial of Wendell Willkies birth. Amity shlaes is with the george w. Bush institute in dallas, texas. James madison, you have been a professor of history at Indiana University. Let me begin with that speech he gave in elwood, indiana. It lays the groundwork for why he was challenging Franklin Delano roosevelt. He ran against roosevelt and against the new deal and against the kind of policies and politics were represented by the new deal. We will have a Good Opportunity to talk about those in detail this evening. Let me just say that it was a fairly standard political speech, but not a fairly standard political rally. As david said, it was a massive rally. 150,000 to 200,000 people in the small indiana town in august at a time when as hoosiers say, you can hear the corn grow. It was 102 degrees that afternoon when willkie took the podium. He spoke with eloquence, and yet the atmosphere was such that the speech was a bit flat in terms of the audience, in terms of the reception. So it was not the best start for the actual campaign. We now know looking back that it was rather indicative of the campaign itself and some of the disorganization and difficulties that willkie the amateur newcomer had. In making his case as to why the American People should vote roosevelt out of office and not allow him a third term. One note about the speech, it was heard on radio by millions of americans. This was the time for radio. People sat by the radio sets and listened intently to political speeches. Amity shlaes, you have written extensively about the new deal. This is now eight years after Franklin Roosevelt promised a new deal for the American People, yet unemployment still in the double digits, still a lot of concern about the economy. Why was this the year the republicans turned to an outsider . Probably the only time in modern American History that a nonmilitary, nonpolitician was the party nominee. Thank you, this was an incredible political expression. I see the speech as a enormous success of some kind. Because the Republican Party was failing the country. It was not giving an answer to what the democrats had offered. The democrats were not delivering recovery. The recovery was choosing to stay away. What willkie was and his popularity seen expression of his people. The gop had never expected a rally like that. It was a genuine grassroots event of a kind that is fairly rare in the u. S. You start way down there and get to the nomination for president. Let me ask the large question. Why him . What did he do to try to lay the groundwork that allowed the party to turn to this outsider, this businessman from indiana who spent some time in new york as the 1940 nominee . It was easy to underestimate willkie. The professional, the long term career politicians in the gop did just that. They underestimated this fellow. He did have no political experience to speak of. He had never ran for office. He never held office. He was a businessman, a lawyer, but very smart and very sophisticated. I think it is relevant that his business experience was really, in a way, political experience. He was a wonderful communicator. He knew how to work with people. He knew how to make a case, how to make an argument the kind of skills he deployed as a president ial candidate. And yet Alice Roosevelt longworth was quoted as saying it was a, grassroots of 1000 country clubs. And you are smiling. Well, i think the Grassroots Campaign is part of the politics of politicking. We the people was truly grassroots in what it intended, but willkie was not a common man. He was a wealthy corporate lawyer and businessman. He had an agricultural interest, but he was not a farmer. He said he farmed by conversation, not by actually farming. He was far far from the grass roots, but he tried to appeal to the grassroots, the people of the grassroots. Amity shlaes, lets talk about the 1940 convention. This had the governor of minnesota delivering the speech. Longtime president ial candidate. Herbert hoover, former president , who is hoping the party would turn to him one more time. Tom dewey, and, of course, you had robert taft, who is hoping the party would turn to him. Well we get in a little trouble when we draw analogies. But dewey was the prosecutor from new york who overrated himself. We often have new yorkers come out and think they are going to win especially when they have a, legal background. Taft was mr. Republican. People had heard about him before. Taft was a name. We had had a president called taft. That was not particularly new. And Herbert Hoover a wonderful man of talent who had become a great vanity. He was getting in the way of the progress of the party because he kept wanting to run again. But his time was probably past. What was exciting about willkie was he went to hear Herbert Hoover and could not bear that hoover would hog the nomination. Yet again, hog the party. He said, let it be someone i have met and heard about. In that way willkie was, grassroots. He, himself, was not of the grass entirely. As an attorney gone up. He was chosen by people who were revolting against the party. The other names were the party. Willkie came in as somebody different, not who we expected should not who we expected. He retired and an exciting man. I think for many people, it was none of the above. It was the perfect atmosphere for a newcomer an outsider who promises and looks very different from the republican standard of the late 1930s. What was the state of the democratic party, amity shlaes, and Franklin Roosevelt and his support in 1940, eight years after the new deal at a time when most president s would step down . Tonguetied because roosevelts victory, 46 out of 48 states in the preceding election was so hard to get, past. Even as the party was beginning to get past it, this idea of having a third term the war was coming closer. War in 1940 had already been declared in europe. Germans had invaded polandbritain. All of a sudden, roosevelt was just when you say roosevelt could not run again, roosevelt was a naval president. He was good at war, they knew for wwi. All of a sudden, people bit their tongue or were tonguetied and did not protest against roosevelt. Still, it was quite amazing that here they were for a third time. Professor madison, the headlines in the december of 1940 with willkie as the republican nominee, hitler moving to france and declaring victory. As you pointed out, Great Britain next. Juxtapose the politics of 1940 and the looming clouds of war. Willkie it worked very much to advantage that france surrendered to the nazis before the convention began. That turned americas attention very forcefully to this war in europe. They did not want to be a part of it, they knew it might mean we needed a wartime leader. Roosevelt looked a lot better in that context than did any of the republicans. We are coming to you with some of the scenes from the Rush County Historical Society in rushville indiana, about an hour from indianapolis and one of the homes of Wendell Wilkie. He was born in elwood, indiana. As we continue our series. Our focus this week is on Wendell Wilkie and we want to hear from you. There are so many images from that campaign, tickertape parades that we dont see in modern campaigns. Why was that significant and what does that tell you about the support that he had from certain sectors of the public . Of course, there is no television. The candidate really has to get out there with the people. He spends a lot of time crossing the country on trains. Retail politics in towns and cities all across america with all the hoopla and all the stuff that gets people engaged and excited about the campaign. Was Franklin Roosevelt worried about Wendell Wilkie . I think he enjoyed it. He says im not going to pretend this is an unpleasant duty for me. Franklin roosevelt was a warrior and wilkie was a warrior and both of them gurded and enjoyed that process. He respected him as a contender from the beginning. You see him dropping comments, that one i am worried about, unlike the thats a real contender as well. Others. He was ready for the battle. We are going to hear from Franklin Roosevelt in a moment, but who are some of the names our audience might be familiar with . James . Willkie had the good fortune to meet people in the newspaper and Publishing Business in particular who bought ink by the barrel. Russell fortune, who is the editor of forbes magazine, rita vandoren, who was the book editor of the tribune, henry luce of time life and others. These people in the publishing world liked him very much and were very strong behind the scenes working for his nomination and election. And yet he was a democrat before becoming the republican nominee. In that way, he had more credibility. As an outsider he supported the league of nations. He was a democrat right up to 1935. You can find documents with willkie associated with democrats. That gave him more power because he was a dark horse and not a party man and he had become a republican out of conviction. He saw from the inside what was wrong with the democratic philosophy of government. When you look at the beginning of his career as a businessman, he thought he was a utilities businessman and he gradually to see the government was hurting the private Utilities Company and grew angry. So he was speaking truth to power. That is what willkie represented. There was something fresh about it. It was not canned. Hed seen his shareholders lose money and his company be hurt. Thats different than somebody observing from the political sphere. Based on your book, and the Unemployment Rate in 1940 was what . The Unemployment Rate was 10 or below. Its above where we are. It is a little muddy because you are moving toward world war ii, but the average rate was in the teens. Thats the important thing to know. Some say 14, some say 16. Its the difference between terrible and awful. We wouldnt accept, it and it was so long. Talking about unemployment and jobs in hoboken, new jersey. Were going to listen to part of that and part of the recordings of president roosevelt in the oval office from october 1940 as willkie he discusses the discusses the willkie challenge. There are things as i was dried that struck me as i was driving up the streets of hoboken, a vacant store window had pictures of my opponent and his associates on the new deal ticket. I dont know of any more appropriate place to put those pictures. [inaudible] [inaudible] that was Franklin Roosevelt in the recordings from 1940. We are hearing a little bit of that in the oval office recording. It has probably never had anyone in the white house who was more of a wily politician and Franklin Roosevelt. He was just superb. He practiced with a skill, ability, and success that has few if any rivals. And willkie had the misfortune of running against that very skillful politician. I want to followup on that in a moment, amity. Was Wendell Willkie consistent on the issues in the campaign . No, he wasnt. Few politicians are consistent on the issues, and especially in the heat of a campaign and a campaign that started to go badly for willkie. The disorganization, chaos and difficulty of challenging roosevelt. In the last weeks of the campaign, he moved toward positions on war and the new deal that he might not have fully agreed with that were more harsh, more 52 per to than more by two per div. He was inconsistent, but we cant downplay his success. He won more votes in that election then any republican had ever won. Electorally, roosevelt was the wily fox and had a large number of electoral votes relative to willkie, but the spread on the popular vote was much narrower. So willkie got much closer to the democrats than republicans had before. The tape just heard before. I want to mention roosevelt really did become worried. Thats where you see him worried thinking about all sorts of things and maybe we will hear another tape where he worried about whether he could use willkies mistress as a fact to beat him. So theres a lot of stuff going on and they are beginning to take the willkie candidacy seriously. That was a feature of the campaign, this very important girlfriend willkie had, this intellectual music, rita vandoren. You write about her in your book on a different note. Lets get to your phone calls. We are in rushville, indiana. At the home of Wendell Willkie, his home literally three blocks from where we are now. Welcome to the conversation. Thank you, cspan. This is a Great Program and i hope a lot of people take advantage of this Great Service you are giving to the American People. My question i have a couple of comments and questions. But first, being in the suburb of akron, ohio, known as copley, i wanted to know a little bit more about Wendell Willkies role as an attorney for the Goodyear Tire Rubber Company where he, during that time, was heavily involved in akron city democratic politics. And my second comment is with wendell Wendell Willkie being the dark horse candidate at that time, do you see him being like herman cain, with no political experience and a business background that sort of thing and he is starting to look better compared to governor romney and governor perry and the others that are basically career politicians . You bring up two good points. Lets talk about akron ohio. He grew up in indiana, went to ohio, ended up in new york but ohio is a key part of his career. He followed the economic growth. Why did he go from indiana to ohio . Because tires are there. When he got to akron, he couldnt find a bedroom. It was that packed in the automobile boom. He parked on a chair the first night if you read that in the biography. It was so tight of a growing so fast with the automobile industry. In no way, that tells you a lot about willkie and what he was for. He was for economic growth. From there to new york to serve a new industry, utilities, and to head that Utilities Company. Herman cain was on the Fox News Channel today. One of the questions was the Republican Party has not nominated a businessman since Wendell Willkie. Thats a very interesting question. I like it when people make connections between presentday politics and the past. Im reluctant to do that except to say that its too early to identify the dark horse. At this point in 1939, the fall of 1939, very few people had ever heard of Wendell Willkie. Many thought he was still a democrat. He did not emerge until the spring of 1940. If we are following the form, we have to wait until spring of 12 to know if we have a dark course. The conventions of 1940 are very different from a convention in 2012. The outcomes were less certain. We seem to be more settled in our primary system when they get there, they are just counting up what already happened. Ron is joining us from marysville, washington as we talk about the president ial campaign of Wendell Willkie, the 1940 republican nominee. Thank you for taking my call and having the series which is outstanding. I want to provide three clarifications to statements that have been made. Number one, a statement that roosevelt was the first president to contemplate a third term. Woodrow wilson contemplated it as documented in his recent biography by john milton cooper. It may have been delusional but he seriously contemplated it, even after his stroke. Second, your historians can correct me on this, but im pretty sure fdr was assistant secretary of the navy and not full secretary. And third, willkie, i dont think was the first nonpolitician republican. I would classify hoover as being in that category even though he did hold the cabinet post of secretary of commerce. He was never an elected politician, nor did he serve in the military. Thank you. Thanks for the call. First on Herbert Hoover and Woodrow Wilson. Woodrow wilson, the point about whether he was serious about a third term in 1920 . Just writing the biography of Calvin Coolidge, so im in the period when wilson is ill after his stroke. Wilson and wilsons crowd thought about a lot of things but it was clear to the party that he could not be the next president. So thats a little bit of a different category. We didnt say roosevelt was secretary of the navy, he served the secretary of the navy. But we appreciate the callers precision. James is joining us next. I just wanted to comment that in the fall of 1940, Wendell Willkie did a whistle stop tour through florida and i happened to be a Western Union trainee at melbourne, florida. He came through melbourne and was on the rear platform of the train and a crowd of 50 or 60 people and i had the opportunity to shake hands with Wendell Willkie, that was either september or october of 1940. Just a comment i wanted to add. It was very interesting that have happened. Do you remember, as you saw him on that whistle stop tour, what you saw when you saw him campaign . I was a kid of 18 years old and i was just in a heres the guy who could be president of the United States. I looked up to him. Im 89, i was 18 years old there. I was just a kid and was really visibly impressed with him. He made a majestic appearance on the back of that train. It was really something very special. Thanks for the call. These are some of the images the audience is looking at as the crowds swarmed around Wendell Willkie. He also used the media, couple of points that nbc radio carried three hours of the Republican Convention in philadelphia. Television was introduced in the 1940 convention. Viewers in new york, schenectady, and a few other cities could see the convention and putting together ads used in movie theaters around the country. Politics is always changing. Theres new techniques, new possibilities and new media and willkie was very astute in using that. It was part of his experience as a businessman to use the media and work with the media. He was excellent at that. Helped by the kind of people he had around him in the campaign who were the best of the best in the media business. He was not a farmer but he went after the agriculture vote. The agriculture vote is very important in 1940. There are a very, very large number of farmers in america and they are very important. They vote. Farm policy and Agricultural Policy is central to president ial elections. Any president expecting to have a chance of victory must Pay Attention to that. Thats why we see these photographs of of willkie standing in front of a cornfield. All the hogs began to pose as soon as the cameras showed up because they were so accustomed to willkie and hogs and the corn as the object of photographers attention. And one of the photographs hes wearing a suit next to a farmer and the corn. He was quite honest. One of the nice things about willkie was that he was honest. Including never pretending he was a farmer. The major issues in 1940, what were they . They were the war, are we going in . Do we have to go in . If london is going to be bombed, maybe we have two go in. Even though we remember world war i was such a horror. War always trumps economics. Two, the economy that had chosen over and over again to stay away. Those are the big ones. One thing about willkie, we know the phrase, happy warrior. We know it from the democrats, roosevelt, al smith, that to be a happy warrior is to be a winner in politics. Willkie was a happy warrior. He could get a barge or two in but he was basically not a vicious man. At the gop learned in the 30s was they failed through bitterness. They failed through the Liberty League and the attacks on the new deal were bitter and angry, not of experience or truth. Willkie represented a new way of being, not just a smear at roosevelt, but to take him on with facts and without too much ad hominem. I dont know if you call it media or character, but i call it character. Gone with the wind was one of the movies that was still popular in 1940 and if you went to the movie theater, you could have seen this ad put together by the Republican National committee for Wendell Willkie. Whether you are in oregon, a farmer in new jersey or california or a wheat grower in kansas or minnesota, you have a right to know how well your republican candidate for president and Vice President understand your interest in farming. This Motion Picture has been produced. The two most talked about men in American Life today are the central figures of this picture. Wendell l willkie of indiana and Charles Mcnary of oregon. Mr. Willkie visits with a family and at his left is mary. Father and law of wilkie and manager of the farms. It is a hot day and mr. Willkie refreshes himself at the old pump before the inspection begins. These are not hyde park estates. These are practical corn belt farms. His interest and for each club work and in americas young people, it is genuine. In them, he sees a future of america. From the Republican National committee. He describes himself as a liberal. And this is an important point to understand. Liberalism in the 1940 is a very different term than how we view it today. When willkie said liberal, he meant the individualism of the the liberalism of the individual, not the liberalism of the group, not the progressive block. He saw an opposition there, so that is quite different from liberalism that is progressive where we have blocks such as farms, such as veterans, such as Senior Citizens and we hand things out to them. That is what he was seeking to define in the later 30s as he was becoming a political personality. Richard is joining us from florida. Go ahead with your question. You mentioned the Important Role of the publications houses in new york and henry luce and so on. I recently visited the special collections at Georgetown University and went through the willkie files. I was very struck by the role in the campaign of people like john hay whitney, William Harding jackson, the managing director and a banker, William Mackle vane in the chicago area. I would like to know if you would talk a little about their role in the campaign and, more broadly, the level of support from the milburn and Whitney Companies in new york that stem from mr. Willkies time in new york from 49 and maybe before that. It was 1939. He actually passed away in 1944. His years in new york and those who supported him . He was a corporate man. He worked at a company put together to wire the south. It had a Corporate Mission and a Business Mission and service mission. The other corporations, they all knew each other and it would not be surprising if you hear names like that associated, but not all Establishment Republicans with money were for willkie. Many were for the other names we heard. It wasnt as though wall street decided and willkie was very late. Some of them came around when they thought he would be the candidate and thats different. You will see people jumping in at varying points. The sale of the tva and the impact that had on willkie and his view of government. Can you address that issue . Its a story really that starts in the 20s. The south is dark, the rest of the country is beginning to live to be lit up. How do we light up the south . Commonwealth and southern was put together to supply the answer. A company can do it. And it was a bit of government orchestration because we had different laws in the states then. They went on the Stock Exchange and that was when the dow jones first started. The dow jones utility index. That was the internet of the time. Another view coming from the government was the government should supply the power. We light up the south, the tva, Tennessee Valley authority. So willkie found himself as head of commonwealth in southern in a wrestling match with one of the heads of the tva about who would light up the south and willkie said in an epic meeting at the cosmos club, the gentleman lawyer from indiana and the gentleman lawyer from indiana because there they were trying to make friendly like two lawyers, and willkie essentially said my company will do some and your company will do some. And he said when we would go back to his diaries the government is going to take over it all. Thats the battle that was waged and much of commonwealth and southern was sold to the government and thats what we are speaking of. Big check with the photographs and willkie was declared victor and the shareholders got money from the government, but the question was was it a victory or whether the annihilation of the private sector in the marketplace of the future utilities . Purchased for the price of 75 million. He got a big check and he took it all around to show his friends. It was exciting, but im not sure it was a victory for the private sector or the shareholders of the utility company. Ruth is joining us from new york city. We are looking at the life and career and 1940 campaign of Wendell Willkie. Thank you so much for taking my call. It seems like during every president ial election cycle politicians and pundits will invoke Wendell Willkies name. I wonder what it was about his candidacy that still resonates in todays political environment. I would say it isthe freshness, the newness. Thats inevitable with the dark course standard weve been talking about. This is someone who so different from vandenberg and taft, so vital, so energetic, he seemed so honest. One of my favorite stories about him is at a time even then when religion was sometimes important and candidates were expected to be churchgoers, willkie, when asked, said i generally sleep in on sunday mornings. Thats the kind of honesty many people found it refreshing in 1940. There is a piece i want you to comment on from Newsweek Magazine in 1968. The piece said could it be another year of Wendell Willkie, a year republicans were dissatisfied with the expected nomination of richard nixon. We have that every few cycles. The Republican Party is a particularly ossified party. When it gets tired of itself, someone comes from outside. It is also that the Republican Party is more affiliated with business and enterprise and enterprising people tend to turn out to be republicans because they are from the private sector. So that will always be a factor too. But who is the 68 republican you are thinking of . Did he come . He never came. We are still waiting for Wendell Willkie. He excited democrats too because he pushed roosevelt to put it, simply into the war. Willkie saw the war had to happen because what was going on in europe was wrong. We had to help fight the bad nazis. He was on the right side on that. So thats refreshing whatever party you are from. Whenever someone comes in and speaks the truth about an important and difficult issue, that is what people remember as well. He forced roosevelt to do what roosevelt knew his right to do, which was go into war. He made roosevelt be a better roosevelt. More from willkie as he talks about liberalism and the roosevelt new deal. Another from the Republican National committee come a series of films used in movie theaters in 1940. The doctrinaires of the opposition have attempted to picture me as an opponent of liberalism. But i was a liberal before many of those men heard the word and i fought for the reforms of Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson before another roosevelt adopted and distorted the word liberal. American liberalism does not consist merely in reforming things. It consists primarily in making things. We must substitute for the philosophy of distributed scarcity, the philosophy of unlimited productivity. I stand for the restoration of full production and reemployment in American Private enterprise. The present administration has spent 60 billion. The new deal stands for doing what has to be done by spending as much money as possible. I propose to do it by spending as little money as possible. This is one issue in this campaign that i intend to make Crystal Clear before the conclusion of the campaign so that everybody in this country may understand the tremendous waste of their resources and money that have taken place in the last seven and a half years. You hear the words of Wendell Willkie, you see him campaign, what are your thoughts . That liberalism he describes which he differentiates from progressivism, what we think of when we hear it on the television, goes all the way back to the germany of his family because his family left europe in 1848 or soon after as basically social democrats or liberals to get away from prussian militarism. That is a european liberalism which is all about the individual and freedom coming straight through down as a tradition in the United States. Some of us would call willkie the last liberal because he was last big, Classical Liberal in u. S. Politics like that. Reagan did not call himself a liberal. Maybe he called himself a libertarian. The word changed in meaning in the u. S. The second was the economic sophistication of what willkie was saying. And that does come from him saying. From the point of view of the from the point of view of the firms, productivity is really important, we not only make the widgets, but we make them better. That will increase the standard of living for everyone instead of redistributing, which is the alternate. That is a very clear, accurate and sophisticated economic argument. It is not about just helping the middle class. It is more complex than that. More complex than what we hear from politicians in this campaign so far. Amity shlaes is a columnist with bloomberg. And jim madison teaches history at Indiana University. Our next caller is ed from morristown, new jersey. Did willkie feel that he got an inappropriate level of support in the general election from this nomination rivals, taft and hoover, and their people or was he to recently arrived in the party to engage the leaders the way a veteran republican politician would have . Professor madison, you are shaking your head no. Well i do not think he got the support he wanted. The senator from indiana james watson said on hearing of the nomination, it is all right if the town prostitute wants to join the church, but she should not be expected to sing a solo on the first sunday. They never ever trusted him. He was an outsider and they never trusted him. They never got behind him. And to go back to that speech in indiana just north of where we are in rushville, he said, you republicans. How did that resonate with the Republican Base . I think some of them noticed there were called you rather in a republican two years prior to that, he was a democrat. Our next caller is from savannah, georgia. Thanks for doing this program all Wendell Willkie. I believe he was far ahead of his time on many issues. First of all, civil rights. He was a great advocate of civil rights. If the country had followed his lead, we would have avoided a lot of the strife and dissension we had in later decades. During the war, he was a great advocate of ending colonialism. He wanted to prevent the European Countries from reestablishing their empires in the third world, particularly france and indochina. We would have aborted the tragedy of vietnam and the war. Finally, i wanted to mention, he was a great believer in the idea that the way to fight unemployment was to encourage investment and growth. That would be the only way we would get jobs in this country. That is still relevant to what we are debating about today. Id be interested in hearing the group panels opinions about these points. Thank you, charles. One thing that really resonates from one world when we look at it today, that was his book sold tremendously well about this time when he went to the middle east, he said the colonials here are too dominant. When we withdraw, there will be a vacuum. Therell be nothing for the people to turn to. We need to help them build democracy. He had a more cynical, cavalier attitude towards the middle east. When you hear the protesters in the middle east today, you go back to the errors we made in the 1940s and 1950s, not taking tht seriously, squandering opportunity. His description of teheran and the number of babies who died because the water was not clean and the tyranny of their regime gets back to what we see today in many places of the middle east. And what we have not been able to address systematically. He was like an analyst of the arab spring years ago. It is striking. It strikes you. John from maryville, indiana. Within six months of the election of 1940, willkie was totally unpopular with the republicans mainly because he had adopted roosevelts foreignpolicy. He was prowar. And the Republican Party ostracized him completely, no matter how well he did in the previous election. When he toured europe, for roosevelt, he went over to asia. Republicans hated that. He called his campaign on Foreign Policy statements as Campaign Oratory before a congressional hearing in 1941. He ran again in 1944 for the nomination, but he had so embittered the republicans by becoming roosevelts, almost Foreign Policy agent, that he had a chance against dewey. He really was proroosevelt with regard to Foreign Policy. And for the purposes of the campaign, he took really an opposite position, but after the election, he came around and really endorsed roosevelts Foreign Policy, indoorwent over to england to tour on behalf of roosevelt. In 1944, roosevelt and willkie had met. I think roosevelt wanted his endorsement. Before the election he died, so he never endorsed dewey or roosevelt. You bring up a number of key points. Thank you for phoning. We are going to talk about this book, one world, and his post campaign visit to europe. You also brought up the 1940 fall campaign. Lets touch on that. If we could. In the next hour, will focus on the second part of your phone call. He went in with such great promise. He did not have a lot of the support from the republican establishment. You touched on this earlier. Basically, what happened . How did this unfold . Roosevelt did have liabilities going into the campaign. He had won in a landslide in 1936. The Congressional Elections in 1938 produced, i think, 81 new Republican House members voting against roosevelt, voting against the new deal. The results of the Court Packing plan. Which craeted a lot of biterrness among democrats in america. Then there was, as we talked about, this notion that the big zero terms were enough. Two terms were enough. They thought about his arrogance, his power, and the Big Government he had created. So roosevelt had liabilities in 1940. Willkie, a republican, might have been able to beat and maybe wilkie was the best possibility of doing that. Him. Willkie did not do it, in part, because he was running against his own former position as much as against his opponent. He was so inconsistent. He did not have a good track record politically. He was pro union. He was with john l. He supported the war, than was against, it then supported it. Lewis. He was quite in subsistent he was quite inconsistent. The best way to see him is as a wonderful attorney who takes the best case, the clarifying case. And speaks truth to it. The case of for the market and the company was the one he made at the end of the 1930s. In the campaign, several Different Cases conflicted with one another. Later tonight well talk about some great cases that we still talk about today. His positions and what he did. He always stood for free market. He was always prowar or no war. He was a protean man. That was part of its often right. By the end they could see he was like roosevelt, and that heard him. A lot more to talk about. We want to show you another piece of film. This is from the Republican National committee as a way of trying to frame childhood and roots of william willkie. Wendell willkie, born 48 years ago, in elmwood, indiana, emerges in response to the greatest demonstration of support and our country has ever known. His grandparents, like the ancestors of Many Americans, fred project fled europe to find liberty in this country. Here in elwood, his parents practiced law. Wendell willkie was born in a modest home like millions of americans. He went to Public High School just like millions of americans. His hardworking parents moved to this elwood home. He went on to success in law and business. Just some of the scenes from elwood, indiana, the birthplace of Wendell Willkie. David willkie is hi willkies grandson. Many say the resemblance is pretty resemblance say the resemblance is pretty amazing. The you think you look like your grandfather . Not exactly. What kind of a man was Wendell Willkie . Describe his persona and how your family views him as a politician. Physically, he was a large man. Some called him a big bear of a man. His brother was a heavyweight romangreco wrestler. He was always tasseled. He would put on a suit. He could never keep his hair straight. His wife would have to tell him when to get a haircut. He was not so worried about outward appearances. What he was worried about was the idea. What is important about it . Explain his indian roots and, also, where he went to college and how he began his career here as a lawyer. He grew up in elwood, indiana. The interesting thing about him and his parents was not only was his father a lawyer, but his mother became one of the first attorneys in indiana. Her first case was against his father. They were husband and wife against each other. At the end of the day, his mother won. Not surprising because she was the true driving force in the family. Most of his siblings went to Indiana University. They were a vibrant part of the community. They led the conversations that came out of there. A future governor of indiana was also there at the same time and became friends with him. After he finished at Indiana University, he took a job in kansas teaching history. He also coached basketball. I never think of him as being an athletic person, but coming from indiana, we always like to think of ourselves as basketball players. He did that for a time before coming back to Indiana University and going to law school. When he went to law school, he was always challenging the thought process that was there. He was the top of his class, and at the end, when he graduated, he was giving a speech to the commencement class and he chastised both the indiana general assembly, the legislature here in indiana, but also the Supreme Court at the time. It was so scandalous that the university did not know what to do. They delayed giving him his diploma for several days while they debated what to do and eventually let him go on, but he was always one to challenge the status quo. Unlike some of the earlier contenders we have covered, we are now moving into the radio, television and film age, so we can hear some of these personalities speak, and Wendell Willkie did have a strong speaking personality. Can you elaborate on that . Absolutely. He was drawn to the camera, as you can see in the clips you have shown. He relished talking about different ideas both in casual conversation, but then on a larger stage too. When people were paying attention to him, it was almost as if he got more energized along the way. Your grandmother was edith willkie. How did the two meet . They were in a neutral Wedding Party together. He was drawn to her. She was a librarian by training, intellectual in her own right, and there was a natural romance that bloomed. David willkieis the grandson of the willke is the grandson of the 1940 president ial candidate, Wendell Willkie. He got the republican nomination on the sixth sixth ballot in philadelphia. We have the author of the forgotten man with us. Lets take you to the scene in november of 1940. It was just down the street at the hotel where many reporters gathered to follow the 1940 campaign. Wendell willkie came out to declare that Franklin Roosevelt was in fact going to be elected. He conceded the election. We will follow that with a conversation we had a few weeks ago, dick lugar on Wendell Willkie and his brand of republican politics. People of america, i accept the result of the election with complete good will. I know that they will continue to work as i shall for the unity of our people in the building of a national defense, in aid to britain, and for the elimination from the america of antagonisms of every kind to the end, that the way of life may survive and spread throughout the world. After that, he really became an ambassador for the United States. He had a friendship with Franklin Roosevelt. He certainly seemed to prosper from that. He was not a bad loser. He was a winner in terms of our country and his outlook. His ability, really, to influence public use in other countries about the United States or correspondingly, american views, so that we would not become isolationists, and not become withdrawn. Those are the thoughts of senator dick lugar and how he viewed the Republican Party. That was just a portion of Wendell Willkie; s concession speech. Did he expect to lose . The Campaign Began to go against him in october. The results were not a shock at all to Wendell Willkie or to anyone who was following the campaign. Postelection, the relationship began to really grow between president roosevelt and Wendell Willkie. It is quite amazing. All of his relationships, roosevelts relationships are hard to nail down, but he and Wendell Willkie did move closer and closer together until roosevelts death in 1944, particularly in areas of Foreign Policy and supporting Great Britain before they went into the war. One thing you notice when Wendell Willkie goes to europe on a tour for roosevelt as his ambassador, the famous tour in 1942, he repeats the same behavior he did at his law school graduation. Roosevelt has kindly given him a stage. He goes to meet with stalin on roosevelts behalf, and what does he do . He hears that stalin wants a second front in the war, that he needs that stalin needs a second front in the war, that he needs help, and he thinks maybe we could give you a second front. That was not the u. S. Policy at all. Roosevelt did not like that. He did not plan to have a second front for stalin. Wendell willkie called it as he saw it. When he got to russia, he said, these people need help. They cant wait for the armies to march off and so on and so on. But roosevelt, to his credit, was able to manage an upstart like willkie. Were joined from phoenix, arizona. Good evening. I would like to point out to your audience that youre getting a very onesided economic argument on your program from your panel. She is entitled to her opinion, but she is a wellknown revisionist historian who does not encourages the new deal. She has seven times repeated on tonights program the canard that because unemployment was still in the low teens in 1940, the new deal had failed. I would like to point out that in her book, she concedes that the keynesian experiment worked. She writes the spending was so dramatic that finally it functioned as keynes had hoped it would and as of 1936, unemployment had dropped from 22 to 14 . Now granted, 13 14 is still too high, but to say that when roosevelt came in with unemployment in the midhightwenties and due to kensyian spending reduced it to the lowteens, earmarked as a failure, is just unfair. But she has made a career of repeating these canards and i think it needs to be pointed out to your audience. We will give both of our guests a chance to respond. I do not think we need to get too personal about this. Whether you are a democrat or republican, we see both parties, the obama administration, and Unemployment Rate of 13 is unacceptable now whether you are a keynesian or not. The spending had some effect, especially in 1936, so the caller is really excising a little bit of what i wrote and giving it an interpretation i did not intend nor was visible in the text. But anyway, the 1930s were a bad period. We did not recover. We sort of appeared to recover during the war, but nobody calls war a recovery. My grandfather was a dirt poor farmers to beginning of the new deal former at the beginning of the new deal but he had a framed photo of mr. Roosevelt on his wall. He treated him with great respect. I, as an historian, think the new deal was a great success. I would much rather talk about Wendell Willkie after the election. Lets go to william from florida first. Go ahead, please. Just as a footnote to the history of the 1940 campaign, one of the most courageous supporters the Wendell Willkie had was a friend of mine, the longtime mayor of syracuse, and probably the best mayor syracuse ever had. Syracuse is in the center of new york state, which was the political empire at that point. It took a great deal of courage to defy the entire state political establishment, which he did. Unfortunately, when Wendell Willkie lost, duly left no stone unturned to of political life. He said his mistake was that he bet on a man with a weak heart. It should be remembered that he had a very Strong Political supporter in the center of new york state and i think that is a footnote to the whole thing. Thank you for the call. You bring up an important point that we touched on in the last hour. The relationship between Wendell Willkie and thomas dewey. Not a happy relationship. I do not think they ever reconciled. North and many of the professional politicians. The best indication of that was in the 1944 Republican Convention, no one bothered to invite Wendell Willkie to speak or even to be a delegate. He was not there. He was exercised by the party. Under the Roosevelt Administration was a lendlease program. What was that . Before we win, we agreed to help so we gave money, loans money to europe, send arms, so that england could defend herself. That is the simplest way to put it. Eventually, we went into the war. That was an important spending program. That is an example of one. One of the things that is happening during this period is that up until 1938 or so, 1939, roosevelt is fighting with business. He is chasing them. One person said, why dont you either nationalize them or leave them alone . Whats the purpose of chasing them around the lot every other week . He was all the tiger to business. But then suddenly he needed business to wage his war and instead of being the enemy, the occasional target, there they were in the white house making aluminum, not being prosecuted, making airplanes, making boats, making material for europe and for the u. S. That was an important change for business because they knew they were allies of the government and not antagonists. In 1941, Wendell Willkie travels to london. How unusual is it for a democratic president to select his republican opponent . He carried a letter of introduction from roosevelt to churchill. At a time when it has already been badly battered by the germans, he sees canterbury cathedral. He gets a real sense of what this war really is for england and what the british people are doing to stand against hitler alone. He brings that message back. He brings it back to the senate and he makes a very powerful case for helping england. Here is Wendell Willkie before congress. If we are to aid britain effectively, we should provide her with 510 destroyers a month. We should be able to do this directly and swiftly rather than through the rigmarole of dubious legal interpretation. I am as much opposed as any man in america to undue concentration of power in the chief executive. And may i say that i did my best to remove that power from the president executive. Personally, i would have preferred to see congress, whether through this bill or through others, instruct the president to lend or lease these things. In february of 1941, what was the country going through and what was Wendell Willkie thinking as he testifies before congress and realizes what has been happening in europe, especially in london . This is a country that came out of world war i and said never, never again. The trench warfare is census. 30 or more of veterans were disabled in some way. America set its mind against war. And yet, when we had the evidence, and that is what Wendell Willkie was bringing home of what was happening to britain, so like us in many ways, and the evidence of hitlers utter audacity with poland and on and on, suddenly, we knew we had to help. That was a big, emotional change for the u. S. That was a reason for the republican isolationism. Republicans feel . A lot of republicans would of said that sentiment and maybe in stronger words. They called Wendell Willkie naive. They felt he was taken in. He was just a tourist. The soviets especially manipulated him. So did the chinese. He was inexperienced and not up to the level of International Diplomacy and knowledge. And yet he received more votes than Herbert Hoover in 1932 or the candidate in 1936. He received a lot of votes for someone who allegedly had no support. This whole Television Show is a love affair with Wendell Willkie because he is interesting on a number of levels. That does not mean he is perfect. That does not mean he is consistent. As we said before, he is like an attorney. He moves from case to case, and those cases are not always consistent. He spoke truth to power at an important point in 1938. Narrative, that was important. Every case is different. We make a Cartoon Version in the forgotten man book. One person made a bust of Wendell Willkie because he was so inspired by him. There is something about him, inconsistent and disappointing as he is, that is very alluring to people. I think because he talks about what is possible, not merely what is realistic. He is an aspirational figure for us at many different points and in many different ways. One professor working with us on the series said Wendell Willkie is the personification of this 14 part series. An individual to be a lot of americans may not know much about but who had a very serious impact in his time. I think that is a good point. I think Wendell Willkie at his best brings us to our better natures. He asks more of us. That is one of the things i like most about him. He holds out the ideals of america and ultimately the ideals of the human race, of the condition of the world. There is a lot to like about Wendell Willkie, even if you might think he is a little naive and uninformed at times. Georgia, go ahead. I will take you back to the glamour and excitement of that day in philadelphia. At the convention hall. I was there. I was there with my father who had a unique involvement at the convention. He sort of orchestrated what was known as the stampeding of the gallery. As a kid, i was up there with instruction on cue to rise up and begin the chant of, we want willkie. Television had just come on the scene. From a national standpoint, and particularly for the delegates, to hear this raucous crowd from the gallery stampeding a convention, it put them in mood, although it did take a number of ballots to ultimately nominee Wendell Willkie. It was fun. I have never forgotten the experience. We should also point out a 26yearold young republican from michigan, gerald ford, was also in attendance. He talked to cspan about that in 2000 as he went back to philadelphia for another Republican Convention. That is right. Do you want to talk about the excitement the Wendell Willkie generated in the 1940 convention . I think were done with that topic. We will go to oliver next. I would like to commend cspan, one of the greatest things on television. I did not know a lot about Wendell Willkie. This is very interesting. I seem to remember his name was spelled with one l in my history books. But i want to ask, you talked about his mistress. Was she related to maeme or Charles Van Doren . She was related to those people. We talked about van dorens. We talked about Wendell Willkies identity. What was a liberal. Rita van doren started to write about english Classical Liberals. That was his way of thinking about what was wrong with politics in the u. S. , that it was too much about groups and too little about individuals. He started to write these articles and to talk to her. He got his political bearings and he began to speak politically and write politically, and not just write articles, but to write manifestoes and to meet the people that then began to back him. Sometimes someone comes along in your life who is a transition person, and rita was at that point such a person who helped him to clarify his ideas. She was also on Calvin Coolidges book tour. She was a wonderful book editor. She edited many of these people down. That he represented a silent majority, we might associate that with nixon and a new, that silent majority. That came out of a regional republican idea in 1920 with barton writing of coolidge. Theres a connection you see with the literary people, the marketers, the thinkers, the intellectuals around the politicians. Those people last a long time, sometimes too many candidates. Were gonna listen to one more piece of sound from roosevelts recordings, set this out as he is in the white house trying to figure out whether or not his relationship should be brought up as a campaign issue. This was a time when it was not common to reveal those relationships. Reporters knew about those relationships. Other politicians had them, including roosevelt himself, of course. But at the time, you did not write about that. You did not report that. Whether roosevelt was going to try to use that against Wendell Willkie is what this tape is about. Again, this is a recording with president roosevelt on the relationship, and the affair the Wendell Willkie was having with rita van doren. [inaudible] professor j. Madison, two points, playing dirty politics, that conversation, and the president wondering whether edith was hired to come back and campaigned with her husband. She loved her husband and remained with him until the end. After his death, several years after, she had a party in her apartment in new york city and provided rita to that party. These were adults behaving in adult ways. That is not a way that any of us need to approve, but that is their life, their personal life. Talking about that relationship, it clearly was a romantic relationship, but it was also a very important intellectual relationship. She was especially important to his speaking, his politics and his life. Donald from utah, go ahead. Yes, im curious as to why Wendell Willkies relationship with madam chiang has not been discussed. You have brought it up, so we will talk about it. Leave that to the international hoosier scholar to track what happened in china. I think the answer is we do not really know what happened. We know that this was on the one world trip in late 1942. It included a stop in china. We know that at one point in the evening, Wendell Willkie and the woman left by themselves and were gone for several hours. Some people say there was a relationship there, but the evidence is very tricky. Explain the significance of this second trip in 1942 for Wendell Willkie. Roosevelt sent him on a tour. He went all over the world, including to china, russia, the middle east. Often to places that were also a little bit tricky, close to the battlefield. He rolled around in an american jeep in russia. With the russian general, he said what are you all defending here, sir, and the russian general said we are not defending, we are attacking. He was trying to send an expression of hope and support from the u. S. To these countries at the time. China was a big country in play at the time. The book he wrote, one world, was an enormous success. So close to a million copies. David lilienthal, the old antagonist from the tva, asked how come the book sold so well. Other politicians, everyone was awe of the concept of peace now, one world. Why that happened was that we were now in the war. Pearl harbor had happened. Everyone was thinking about what kind of peace we should have after. Right away in world war ii, we were framing how to make the world safe for democracy and make the next world war not come quite so fast. All of the ideas that you hear about were formulating in peoples minds, and Wendell Willkie was one of the first formulators. David, you have read your grandfathers book. It is Still Available now. Why did it resonates so in 19421943 . There were several reasons. Number one was that he took it upon himself to visit all different war crimes at the same time. Here we were in the second world war. If we think about that time, no one person had traveled around the world. No one had reported to the American People the struggles of different people around the world. Why were we in this war . Why did we keep going through this war . I want to go back to some of the conversations that just happened talking about my grandfather and his development. Over time, he did develop. He did change in his thought process based on what he went through, and i think the American People did too. If you think about the American People, going back and looking at the American People during the depression and moving through coming into world war ii, this was a different place. That is where one world came into play. Here was a view of different parts of the world that people had not seen before. People had not traveled outside of their farms in the way the people are able to do now, so easily. To talk about these faraway places, baghdad, chun king, northern africa, all of these places came into play and fascinated people. Give you a sense of what america was dealing with that that time. He said that america is like a beleaguered city, living within high walls. I have been outside of those walls, and then he tells the story of what he saw. He talked about at that time but one important thing was that National Boundaries were becoming less and less important to countries in and of themselves. It was more commerce the was going to rule the day. That is what the connection is that we see now, how that commerce really does come into play. We see that now in the national discussion. Even here in indiana, we have a Company Selling things halfway around world to baghdad right now. That idea that Wendell Willkie had during that time. It is much of the world that we live in today, and that is described in the book. The book was published 70 years ago. How can you get a copy . You can email here to the Historical Society. I believe the email address is up. Let me take our audience back a couple of blocks to a home you spent many years in. This is the same home where Wendell Willkie came back and talked about his one world tour. But i want you to remember that we can only have one president at one time and one Foreign Policy at one time. It does folks no good to say i am not the president of the United States, that he acts through hypocrisy. No man in charge of the United States at this critical moment could act from such motives as that. They expose the expansion of our nation, they appose our army, of the bill. They oppose the passage of the Selective Service act. If the policies which they advocate had been adopted, the United States today would be facing a victorious theism in a world wide conflict in which we might ultimately be destroyed. As you hear and see your grandfather just a few blocks from where we are in the Historical Society and the message that he was delivering to those residents of indiana back in 1942, your thoughts . He wanted to bring those thoughts directly here to the American People, to middle america, to say there are other places that have become so important. It is common wisdom now that if america had not entered the war at the time it did, what would europe look like . Would hitler have continued and gone on in his conquest . What would stalin have done . If he could not talk to the people here in indiana, he felt that it was important to go on to other places, other cities throughout the country. It would be much harder to do. His remarks, 70 years ago this month, october of 1942, the book hits stores. Did it face criticism . It did. It did sell many copies, people like it very much, but it had much criticism. There were many who believed that america and should believe america alone and not some and not part of some larger entity such as the un. There were Many Americans who had never been out of the country, never been out of the state or even the county that they were born in. What willkie is trying to do in this book is explain in clear and forceful language why the farmers of russia live not very differently than the farmers of rush county indiana. They are human beings and we have some obligation and some selfinterest and larger interest to understand that and to act on that. We want to thank the Historical Society for hosting us here tonight. If youre interested in getting more information about Wendell Willkie or the book, you can email us. Were joined from north carolina. Good evening. Hello. Please go ahead. I am the last surviving member i think of the Roosevelt White house staff. I was there for a couple of years in the mail room. I read the incoming mail. Entering into the war was a very heavy issue at that time. The public was very, very much against it. We received from 7 to 15,000 letters a day, most of which opposed entry into the war. Only pearl harbor turned Public Opinion around. I also want to go back to the election when Wendell Willkie gave his concession speech. I will never forget how tired he sounded, how heavy his voice was when he said i tried my very best to defeat Franklin Roosevelt. And i could not do it. He apologized to the nation for not doing so. I just wanted to make a comment that i was an actual person involved in the issue at that time. Thank you for adding an important dimension to our conversation. Another amazing call. One thing about one world, the antiun people hate it, because it does lay out the framework for it, but the push for democracy is very important, right up until today. In fact, the astoundingly modern part of one world, is that he sees through the government to the people with the democracy deficit. It is very analogous to what we see today in the world. When there is violence, as we saw with gaddafi, do we declare it a victory for democracy or not . We heard obama being ambivalent about that. We do not know. We think it is a victory for democracy but it is a hard call because it was so violent. He was looking for the use and one world as well. We will go to california and then get your followup. Go ahead. Could you have your guests to speculate on what might happen had Wendell Willkie won the election . As much as i admire and respect Wendell Willkie, i am personally glad that he did not win. Its counterfactual history. We really do not know what would have happened, but roosevelt was a far better wartime leader, far better prepared and experienced to lead this nation in more than willkie would have been. Go to michael next in fargo, north dakota. I was a little late getting to the program, but as i understand it, Wendell Willkie never held political office. I would be curious if his vicepresident ial nominee was chosen for political experience to, i dont know, help balance the ticket, or how he came about to be appointed. His first choice was not selected and so it came to the Party Establishment to come to Wendell Willkie. How did this all come about and who ultimately did he choose . Again, a traditional republican in many ways, far more acceptable to the rank and file of the Republican Party and the Republican Party leadership, so i think the callers guess is right on. Jim in washington, d. C. , youre next. Very interesting program. I would like to address two questions. One was that Wendell Willkie was named in a newsweek article in 1967 as a model for a candidate that year. That model was george romney. He was the candidate of the republican primary, but dropped out because he made a remark about the vietnam war, but he was an industrial executive at american motors and had never really served in Public Office before. But he ran in the early days of the republican primary against nixon and then did not, of course, win. But he did serve as the governor of michigan. Please continue. The other president who ran for a third term was ulysses s. Grant. He had been president for two terms, stepped down for a term, and was a candidate at the Republican Convention in 1880. He lost to james garfield. That was the other president who did seek a third term. Thank you for the call. Almostteddy roosevelt also ran for a third term under a Different Party after he left the white house. Coolidge served under harding. Harding died. Coolidge became president won in his own right in the next election. Easy call. The democrat always runs again when they are popular incumbent, and he chose not to run. What i am discovering in researching Calvin Coolidge is that he chose not to run because of george washington. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. He thought overtime an executive gets too used to the office. That was a concern the people had over fdr, that you do become too much that the state is me. You can learn more on our website and get more on this program and our 14week series, looking a president ial candidates who ran for office, lost, but changed American History. New jersey, go ahead. I am a college teacher. My students have been assigned to watch and they will be so envious that im getting to speak to you. I loved your book. I am looking forward to the coolidge book. My question is, what is the percentage of the electorate that came out to vote in that election . Was it a big percentage or not . Again, i cannot wait to read the coolidge book. Well, we do have the Electoral College totals. We know that it was a landslide for Franklin Roosevelt. But we do not have the share of the turnout and we apologize for that. We will supply that on our website in 24 hours. We are sorry. You see when the will be receiving just over 22 million votes, Franklin Roosevelt just over 27 million votes. It was not a landslide. Wendell willkie had done better than his republican predecessors, but it was a clear victory for roosevelt. David, your grandfather had a view of civil rights in this country 20 years before we saw the Civil Rights Movement led by Martin Luther king. He was certainly ahead of his time when it came to thinking about civil rights and the rights of all people. It was part of his his creed. It was part of his code. One of the things i wanted to show you was the part of his campaign where he talks about Race Relations in a very direct and raw way. This was an advertisement used in an African American press at the time, how he reached out to that part of the electorate. Again, were trying to always get a sense of what was going on in the country. In this part of the country, in indiana, talk about the kkk and its role certainly the kkk had a very strong presence here in indiana. There was a major push to keep them out of the Republican Party. There was division in small towns. There was an africanamerican population in this town, and continues to be, and throughout all towns, but the bases did not mix races did not mix, did not intermingle, so there was always a fearful nature. That is how Wendell Willkie, not only his thought process coming before the election, but also afterwards, on the one world trip. What about this aspect of his life, his views on civil rights . David is being unduly modest about his grandfather i think david is being unduly modest about his grandfathers position on civil rights. He was well ahead of everyone in this country with the exception perhaps of eleanor roosevelt. It comes out of some of the same things better in one world about democracy, anticolonialism. He was strongly opposed. He insisted that colonialism had to disappear in the name of democracy. He insisted that equality around the world could only be achieved if there were equality at home. He connected the International One world idea with the necessity of justice for all in the United States and he walked the walk. He spent a lot of time working with the naacp. He worked with hollywood filmmakers to remove the horrible racism in hollywood films in the 1930s and 1940s. In all sorts of ways, Wendell Willkie was an advocate for racial justice, a supremely important advocate, long before most americans, white americans, will take that position. You just took the words right out of my mouth. I was just about to say that. I was just about to say, what did when the wilkins said that the African Community in indiana at that time he did what did Wendell Willkie say about the African American community in indiana at that time and the kkk at that time . You took the words right out of my mouth. I love your show, the contenders. I learn every day as a young africanamerican man who owns a home. I tried to teach my daughter and my son about president ial things. I tell them every day, you can make it, you can do it, you know. I am just thankful that you all have this show on here talking about this great man that, hey, i do not know anything. My granddad, he is 89years old and he tells people about history in america. I am so glad youre talking about the Africanamerican Community in indiana which was a racistsorry about my language, but was very racist toward africanamericans at that time, the 1940s. Thank you for bringing this up. Thank you. David, he is talking about his grandfather. What about your grandfather as you hear that sentiment . He thought that everybody was responsible just from their own meritocracy of what they would do for their own lives. That was part of his dream, is that anybody, anywhere in the world, should have that individual freedom. That was a core part of his values. He thought if you help somebody someplace else in the world it would come back and help you. It was through hard work and struggle that we would better ourselves here as americans. Going on to the Race Relations part, certainly he had a long, even after he died, Wendell Willkie, the naacp was housed in the Wendell Willkie Freedom House in new york city. They kept that mantle that was there just because he was so far out in front of every place else. As jim matheson talked about, being in hollywood, pushing the idea of race equality. Certainly as we look at what came up in the 1950s and 1960s, what would have been different if Wendell Willkie had been president . And the other question is, what this Republican Party accept a Wendell Willkie and his brand of politics. We asked that question of dick lugar, republican from indiana. I doubt that Wendell Willkie could win today because he was a moderate. He was a person who was looking out for the good of the whole country. There was not the same sharp partisan fever attached to his candidacy or to his rhetoric. He had a very sound business attitude, and that is why he was successful. He understood the American Free enterprise system and job creation, the things that are very important to us as we look at the economic recovery now. What do you think about Wendell Willkies politics and the Republican Party today . Wonderful observation from senator lugar. I beg to differ about whether a business candidate would do well today. I think he would. What we see from both parties is a desire to find someone who started a firm, who comes from the outside. When you have had a long period of nonrecovery, you look outside of washington for the answers. Quite similar, and that is why someone like that would get a reception, i would argue. He ran again in 1944 briefly. And not at all successfully. The republican establishment had no use for him because of his continued support to roosevelt after the 1940 election. In fact, there was some talk, not much more than talk, that roosevelt, who had his own troubles with certain southern democrats, of Franklin Roosevelt and Wendell Willkie coming together and forming a new political party. Now there is an idea to think about for the future of america. Our next call is erica from washington, d. C. Thank you for doing this. It is a great show. I have a policy question if we could go back a little bit. I think ive understand the type of things the shape Wendell Willkies economic beliefs and background. Do know if there were any specific events that shaped his Foreign Policy prior to the events of world war ii . The Foreign Policy of Wendell Willkie . I would mention his family background. They had the experience of fleeing oppression militarism. His grandfather was beaten for no reason by a prussian soldier. It was an arbitrary exercise of authority. They came here to work as lawyers. That comes through their children especially. German americans who sought freedom and wanted to preserve freedom. Certainly, within the family, thinking about wendell and his life, growing up being part of world war i, his time in the army opened his eyes. The intellectual life of the family. When wendell grew up, his father would wake up his children by reading shakespeare quotes every morning. That is how they would start their day. It was an era of intellectualism. The thought process that allowed him to look at side of his own surroundings in indiana. Duncan is joining us from ohio. Go ahead. I was just curious about the relationship he may have had with huey long. Are you familiar with that . I know he defended him against criticism and charges. He defended all sorts of people who were not popular. He defended americans not communists. Or american nazis, this was part of his political belief that everyone has the right to individual freedom. He was a great patriot, in my mind. How did your father sorry your grandfather pass away . He had a series of heart attacks. He was a workaholic. Diet, exercise and genetics, although we know today about those things certainly played a role in his death. I think he was an exceedingly hard working person. He was 24 7. He also lived hard. He spoke. He smoked heavily. I have seen pictures of him with a camel cigarettes on the desk and we know what kind of coffin nails those are. He did not live what we now understand is a healthy life. He died he is buried just a few miles from where were located. A beautiful cemetery that is described as being looking out over the prairie, although we are not quite prairie here. He has a stone granite book lay open and talking about his life and his view of what the world should be, equality, that america was the place to be. Why . Because you could dream and in america you could make those dreams come true. If you could ask him one question, what would it be . How do we bring our country together this time so that we have a political process that yields economic recovery . That we get past calling each other names to formulate a policy that gets the country to grow again. Hugo is joining us from connecticut. Welcome to the program. First of all, i met Wendell Willkie and my grandfathers, along with thomas e. Dewey, two very, very fascinating public persons. I was 10years old at the time, but i do remember distinctly both of these personalities. My grandfather was the publisher of the oldest newspaper in this country. But i will not get into history. He was an fdr republican, my grandfather. My uncle was a socialist. But that is beside the point. The point is that i was terribly impressed as a young boy with this man. I was always in a political environment, intellectual environment, educational, historical, etc. , in my family. But this man impressed me a great deal. Frankly, he was the reason i became a republican, as i became eligible to vote, that i became a republican. What disturbs me today is the Wendell Willkie republican the first time i voted was for eisenhower, when i was able to vote. Subsequently, i became a Young Republican Club member. Subsequent to that, by disillusionment, i lost my contact with the Republican Party. I hate to say this because there were so many elements in the Republican Party personified by Wendell Willkie, and thomas dewey and others that impressed me. I was just wondering, among your panelists, whether or not they could at least comment on why we have lost the essential, how can i put this . I do not know how to put this in political terms. I will put it in human terms. How we have lost the fundamental understanding of what capitalism is, Political Association with capitalism is, and ultimately, the nature of what is going on in our society today, particularly among the parties . Thank you for the call. Next week, we will talk more about the personality and political career of thomas dewey as we bring you our live coverage from the Roosevelt Hotel in new york city. To the callers point. I understand what the caller is saying and there are days when i would agree with him. But overall, most of the time, in the long run, i do not agree with the pessimistic view. I am still a Great American optimist. Part of my optimism is the hope that there will be candidates offering us the choices that Wendell Willkie offered us in 1940, and especially the Wendell Willkie after 1940. David, what was your grandfathers legacy . There were many aspects to his legacy. Certainly, the thought about commerce, and to the callers point, do politics and business have a place at the same table, coming together . As we look at the Economic Times that we have, i would argue definitely yes. That is part of the legacy. There is also the legacy of Race Relations and thinking about what it means to be a citizen of the world and understand how the rest of the world affects us here in places like indiana. I would argue, yes, it can happen again. Why is he a gamechanger . He is a game changer. Count on it. He is not the left will keep. The author of the forgotten man. James madison, prof. Of history at Indiana University. David willkie, the grandson of, Wendell Willkie. We thank the russellville Historical Society for letting us conduct this program here. As we look typical life and career of Wendell Willkie, he passed away in the fall of 1944. Wendell willkie, republican candidate for the presidency of the United States in 1940, taken suddenly at age 52. Dominated by popular acclaim, Wendell Willkie won the admiration of all his countrymen for his energy, policy, and forthright courage. He spent the last years of his vigorous life in an effort to promote Mutual Understanding and good will among all nations. He talked with churchill in london and shared experiences with britains average folks. He visited and talked with the people of russia, of the middle east, and of china, renewing his strong faith in a unity for all people. A Great American and world citizen who will be sorely missed in the critical years ahead. Coming up, a Campaign Film supporting 1940 republican candidate went elwell keith and we will hear speeches from the convention that nominated him, appeals to voters and dramatic scenes with actors portraying the founding fathers