Democrats Walter Mondale and congresswoman ferraro in the general election, winning the popular vote 59 41 . Ms. Ferraro was the first woman nominated for the vice presidency by a major party. This debate from philadelphia is just under an hour and a half. [applause] dorothy good evening. Good evening from the civic center in philadelphia, pennsylvania. I am the president of the league of women voters, sponsor of tonights Vice President ial debate between republican george bush and democrat geraldine ferraro. Our panelists for tonights debate are john mashek, National Correspondent for u. S. News world report, jack white, correspondent for time magazine, norma quarles, correspondent for nbc news, and robert boyd, Washington Bureau chief for knightridder newspapers. Sandra van ocher, Political Correspondent for abc news, is our moderator tonight. Sandy. Sandy thank you, dorothy. A few words about the order of the format. The order of questioning was determined by a toss of the coin. Congresswoman ferraro won the toss. She elected to speak last. Vice president bush will get the first question. The debate will be built upon a series of questions from the four reporters on the panel. A reporter will ask a candidate a question, a followup question, then the same to the other candidate, then each candidate will get to rebut the other. The debate will be divided into two parts, there will be the first section on domestic affairs, the second on Foreign Affairs. The manner of address was decided by the candidates. Therefore, it will be Vice President bush and congress ferraro. We begin with john. John john adams, one of the nations first president s, said, today i am nothing, tomorrow i may be everything. I would like to ask, Vice President bush, four years ago, you ran against mr. Reagan for the republican nomination. You disagreed with him on such issues of vague limits amendment, abortion, and you even labeled his economic policies as voodoo. Now you agree with him on every issue. If you should be called upon to assume the presidency, would you follow mr. Reagans policies down the line or would you revert to some of your own ideas . Vice pres. Bush i dont think there is a great difference between my ideas and president reagans. One of the reasons i think we are an Effective Team is that i believe firmly in his leadership. He has really turned this country around. We agree on the Economic Programs. When we came into office, inflation was 12. 5 , Interest Rates wiping out every single american, 21. 5 , if you can believe it. Productivity was down. Savings was down. There was despair. In fact, the leadership of the country told the people that there was a malaise out there. This president turned it around and i have been with him every step of the way. And, of course, i would continue those kinds of programs because it has brought america back. America is better off. People are going back to work. And why mr. Mondale cant understand that there is a new enthusiasm in this country, that america is back, there is new, strong leadership, i dont know. He has one answer to the problem, raise everybodys taxes. He looked right into that lens and said out there in san francisco, he said, im going to raise your taxes. He has had a lot of experience in that and he sure is going to had into it. I remember a statement of Lyndon Johnsons when he was looking around, why his party people werent supporting him, he said, they painted their tails white and ran with the antelope. There are lots of democratic white tails running with the antelopes. Not one democrat introduced the mondale tax bill into the congress. Of course, i support the president s Economic Program, and i support him in everything else. And i am not sure, because of my concept of the vice presidency, that if i didnt, i would go doing what mr. Mondale has done with jimmy carter, jump away from it. I couldnt do that to Ronald Reagan. Now, next year, or any other time. I have too much trust in him. I have too much friendship for him. And i would feel very uncomfortable doing that. Sandy some republicans have criticized mr. Mondale for now claiming he disagreed privately with jimmy carters decision to impose the grain embargo. Have you ever disagreed with any decision of the Reagan Administration and its inner circles, and following that up, where, in your judgment, does loyalty and principle begin . Vice pres. Bush i owe my president my judgment, then i owe him loyalty. You cant have the president of the United States out there lookingard over his shoulder, wondering whether his Vice President is going to be supporting him. Mrs. Ferraro has quite a few differences with mondale. They are different on busing. She voted to extend the grain embargo and he says he was against it. If they win, and i hope they dont, but if they win, she will have to accommodate some views, but she will give him the same kind of loyalty and giving right president reagan. One, we are not far apart on anything. Two, i can walk into that oval office anytime and give him my judgment and he might agree or he might not, but he also knows i wont be talking about it to the press or knifing him in the back by leaking to make me look good and complicate the problems of the president of the United States. Sandy congresswoman ferraro, your opponent has served in the house of representatives. He has been ambassador to the united nations, ambassador to china, director of the Central Intelligence agency and now Vice President for four years. How does your three terms in the house of representatives stack well up against experience like that . Rep. Ferraro let me first say i wasnt born at the age of 43 when i entered congress. I did have a life before that. I was a prosecutor for almost five years in the district attorneys office, and as a 20 teacher. It is not only what is on your paper resume that makes you qualified to run for or to hold office. It is how you approach problems and what your values are. I think if one has taken a look i will at my career, they will see that i level with people, that i but i approach problems would analytically, that i am that i able to assess various very facts with reference to problems, and i can make the hard decisions. I am intrigued when i hear Vice President bush talk about his support of the president s Economic Program and how everything is going beautifully. I too recall when Vice President i reachable bush was running in my the primary against president reagan and he called the program and all program voodoo economics, and it was, and it is. It we are facing absolutely we are baby massive deficits. This administration has chosen to ignore it. Were the president has failed to pregnant put forth a plan to deal with those deficits. And if he believes everything is everything believe coming up roses, perhaps the Vice President should perhaps join me as i travel around the country and speak to people around the country. People in pennsylvania are not terribly thrilled with what is happening in the economy, because they are staring into the light of a closed plant because they have lost their jobs. People in youngstown, ohio have stores that are boarded up because the economy is not doing well. Its not only the Old Industries that are failing, but also the new ones. In california, they are complaining because they cant export hightech quality goods to japan and other countries. People in the northwest, in washington and oregon, are complaining about what is happening in the timber industry, so things are not as great as the administration wants us to believe in their television commercials. My feeling, quite frankly, is that i have enough experience to see the problems, address them, and make tough decisions and level with people with reference to these problems. Sandy despite the historic aspects of your candidacy, how do you account for the fact that a majority of women, at least according to the polls, favor the reaganbush ticket over the mondaleferraro ticket . Rep. Ferraro i am not a believer in polls. Let me say further that what we are talking about our problems are that are facing the entire our nation. They are not just problems facing women. The issues in this campaign are the war and peace issues, the problems of deficits and trade problem deficits. Right we are now facing 120 billion trade deficit in this country. We are facing problems with the environment. Bar i think what will be doing the next several weeks, i am absolutely delighted that the league is sponsoring these debates and we are now able to speak to the American Public and address the issues in knowing way that this. I think you will see a change in weight those polls. Sandy Vice President bush, you have one minute to rebut. Vice pres. Bush i was glad to get that vote of confidence from mrs. Ferraro on my economic judgment. The other day, she was in a plant and she said to the workers, why are you voting, or why are so many of you voting for the reaganbush ticket . And there was a long deathly silence and she said, come on, weve delivered. Thats the problem. I am not blaming her, except for the liberal voting record in the house. They delivered. They delivered 21. 5 Interest Rates. They delivered what they called malaise. They delivered Interest Rates that were off the charts. They delivered takehome paychecks that were shrinking. And we have delivered optimism. People are going back to work, 6 million of them. And 300,000 jobs a month being created. Thats why there was but deathly silence out there in that plant. They delivered the wrong thing. Ronald reagan is delivering leadership. Ronald reagan we will sandy congresswoman ferraro, one minute rebuttal. Rep. Ferraro i think what i will have to do is start correcting the Vice President s statistics. There are 6 million more people who have jobs, which is, in the Prior Administration with all of old their problems, they created 10 million jobs. The the housing Interest Rates great during this Administration Great for housing for middleclass americans was 14. 5 . Under the Prior Administration, with all their problems, the will you average rate was 10. 6 . If you take a look at the number i will of People Living in poverty as a result of this administration, 6 Million People, 500,000 people knocked off disability rolls. Down i you can walk around saying things are great, and if that is what were going to be that hearing hearing, we have been hearing that on the commercials for the past couple of months, i expect that the expectll that they the American People believe that, i expect that i will become a onewoman squad and we will start tonight. Sandy congresswoman, i would like to ask about civil rights. You have in the past been a supporter of tuition tax credits for private parochial schools and also of constitutional amendments to ban bussing. Both of these measures are opposed not only by your running mate by just about every educational and Civil Rights Organization in the country. Now, as you are mr. Mondales running mate, have you changed your position on either of those . Rep. Ferraro with reference to the bussing vote i cast in 1979, both mr. Mondale and i agree on the same goal, and that is nondiscrimination. I just dont agree on the same direction he does on how to achieve it. But i dont find any problem with that, i think that is something that has been handled by the courts, not handled by congress and wont be handled by the white house. We both support nondiscrimination. And the integration of neighborhoods. The goals we both set forth. With reference to tax credits, i represent a district in queens which is 70 catholic. Let me say as well that i have also been a great supporter of Public School education. And that is something that fritz and i feel very, very strongly about for the future of this country. This administration, over the past several years, has gutted the Educational Programs available to our young people. It has attempted to knock out pell grants, monies to young individuals who are poor and cant afford to go to college. It has reduced by 25 the amount of monies going to College Education and i onethird, the amount of those going into secondary and primary schools. But Fritz Mondale and i feel strongly that if you educate your children, that is the way you build up and make a stronger america. With reference to civil rights, you have got to go beyond that. If you look at my record in congress, and Fritz Mondales record in the senate and as Vice President , we both have strong civil rights records. This administration does not. It has come in, in the bob jones case, on the side of segregated academies. It came in in the grove city case on the side of discrimination against women, the handicapped, and the elderly. As a matter of fact, in the congress, we just best overwhelmingly the civil rights bill of 1984. This administration, the Republicancontrolled Senate just killed it in the last week or two in congress. So there is a real difference between how the mondaleferraro administration will address the problems of civil rights and the failure of this administration specifically in that particular area. Sandy on the area of affirmativeaction, what steps do you think the government should take to increase representation of minorities and women in the workforce and colleges and universities . Specifically, would you support the use of quotas to achieve those goals . Rep. Ferraro i do not support the use of quotas. Both mr. Mondale and i feel the strongly about affirmative action to correct inequities. We believe that steps should be taken both through government and, for instance, the Small Business administration. We have supported setasides for minority and womens businesses. That is a positive thing. We dont feel that you are in any way hurting anybody else by reaching out with affirmativeaction to help those who have been disenfranchised. On the contrary, if you have a growing economy, if you create the jobs, if you allow for Small Business the opportunity with lower Interest Rates to reach out and grow, there will be more than enough space for everybody, and affirmative action is a very positive way to deal with the problem of discrimination. Vice president bush, many critics of your administration say it is the most hostile to minorities in recent memory. Have you inadvertently perhaps encouraged that view by supporting tuition tax credits, the antibussing amendment citing Bob Jones University and the case before the Supreme Court, your opposition to the Voting Rights act and so forth . Vice pres. Bush i think our record on civil rights is a good record. You mentioned the Voting Rights extension that was extended for the longest period of time by president reagan. But we have some problems in attracting the black vote. I think our record deserves better. What we have done more for black colleges than any previous and administration. We favor enterprise zones. And it has been blocked by tip oneill and that house of representatives. Those liberals in that house blocked a new idea to bring jobs one into the black communities across this country. And because it is not an old handout special federal spending program, it is blocked. A good idea. A i would like to see that pride. We have brought more civil rights cases in the Justice Department than the Previous Administration by far. We believe in trying something new to help these black teenage kids, the minimum wage differential that says look, to an employer, hire these guys. Work and yes, they are willing to work for slightly less than the minimum wage. Give them a training job in the private sector. Training private sector. We threw out that old bill that didnt train people for jobs that existed, sibley ramped them onto the government payroll. We put in the jobtraining act, new legislation that is helping blacks more and more. We think of civil rights as Something Like crime in your neighborhoods. For example, when crime figures are going in the right direction, that is good. That is a civil right. Similarly we think of it in terms of the quality of life. And that means Interest Rates. You know it is funny mr. Mondale talks about real Interest Rates. The real Interest Rate is what you pay when you get out and try to buy a tv set or try to buy a car or do whatever it is. The Interest Rates, when he left office, were 21. 5 . Inflation. Is that a civil right to have that going off the charts so you are busting every american family, those who can afford it the last . We have a good record. We have it on civil rights legislation, minority setaside, help for black colleges and we have it in terms of an economy that is offering people more opportunity and hope instead of despair. Along those lines, sir, many recent studies have indicated that the poor and minorities have not really shared in the new prosperity generated by the current economic recovery. Was it right for your administration to pursue policies, economic policies that required those at the bottom of the economic ladder to wait for prosperity to trickle down from people who are much better off than they . Vice pres. Bush mr. White, it is not trickling down. I am suggesting the way to work out of poverty is through real opportunity. In the meantime, the needy are getting more help. Human resource spending is way, way up. Aid for dependent children spending is up. Immunization programs are up. Almost every place you can point, contrary to mr. Mondale i have to be careful. Point [laughs] here contrary to how he goes you around just saying everything bad if he sees somebody sees a silver lining, he finds a big black cloud out there. Whine on, harvest moon. I mean, there is going on. A lot of opportunities. Congresswoman ferraro, your rebuttal. Rep. Ferraro the Vice President get says the president signed five the Voting Rights act. That was after he did not support it while it was in the congress and the senate. It was passed despite his opposition and he did sign it because he was required to do so. In the civil rights cases he mentioned, a great number of cases that they have enforced, the reason they have been them is because under the law, they are required to do that, and am delighted the administration is following the law. [applause] sandy excuse me, this will be out of my time, not yours. Knowing and cherishing the people of this city and knowing their restraint and diffidence about emotion, especially of athletic context, of which this is not one, i beseech you, try to hold your applause. I am sorry. Rep. Ferraro i have to correct in my 30 seconds left, the comment that the Vice President made with reference specifically to a program like afdc. If you take afdc, food stamps, if you take i will go down the line of poor peoples programs, those are the programs that suffered considerably under this administrations first budget cuts, and those are the ones that, in the second part of their term, we were able to restore some of those terribly, terribly unfair cuts to the poor people of this country. Sandy Vice President bush . Vice pres. Bush maybe we have a factual. Maybe we can ask the experts to go to the books, they will do it anyway. Spending for food stamps is way, way up under the Reagan Administration. Afdc is up under the Reagan Administration, and i am not going to be found wrong on that. Im sure of my facts. And we are trying to help. We are and i think we are doing a reasonable job, and we are not going to rest until every single american that wants a job gets a job and until this prosperity and this recovery that is benefiting many americans, benefits all americans. Vice president bush, one of the most emotional issues in this campaign has been the question of the separation of church and state. What are you views on the separation of church and state specifically with regard to abortion, and do you believe it is right for the archbishop of philadelphia to have a letter read in 305 churches urging catholics to fight abortion with their votes . Vice pres. Bush i do believe in pluralism. I do believe in separation of church and state. I dont consider abortion a religious issue. I consider it a moral issue. I believe the archbishop has every right to do everything he wants in that direction, just as i never faulted Jesse Jackson from taking his message to the black pulpits across the country, just as i never objected when the Nuclear Freeze or the antinuclear people, many of those movements or led by priests. Suddenly, because a Catholic Bishop or an evangelist feels strongly on a political issue, people are saying it is merging of church and state. We favor, and i speak confidently for the president , we favor separation of church and state. We favor pluralism. Now, somebody says, you want to restore prayer in schools. You dont think it is right to prohibit a kid from praying in schools. Break for years, kids were allowed pray in schools. We dont think that is a merger of church and state to have a nonmandatory, voluntary, nongovernment ordered prayer. And yet some are accusing us of injecting religion into politics. I have no problem with what the archbishop does and i have no problem what the evangelists on the right do and i have no problem with what the priests on the left do. It didnt bother me when during what the vietnam war, much of the opposition to the what government, democrat and republican government, was led by priests encouraging people to break the law in the adage of the civil disobedience thing. So our position, separation of church and state, pluralism. So no little kid with a minority religion of some sort is going to feel offended or left out or uncomfortable. But, yes. Prayer in school on a voluntary basis. It worked for many, many years until the Supreme Court ruled differently. I am glad we got this question, ii am glad we got this question, because i think there has been too much said about religion in politics. We dont believe in denominationally moving in. You it wasnt our side that raised the question about our president , whether he was a good christian or not. [applause] and so that is our position. Separation of church and state, pluralism, respect for all. Norma Vice President bush, four years ago you would have allowed federal financing of abortions in cases of rape and incest, as well as when the mothers life was threatened. Does your position now agree with that of president reagan, who in sundays debate came very close to saying that abortion is murder . Vice pres. Bush you know, there has been, i have to make a confession, an evolution in my position. There has been 15 million abortions since 1973. And i dont take that lightly. There has been 1. 5 million this year. The president and i do favor a human rights amendment. I favor one that would have an exception for incest and rape and he doesnt, but only for the life of the mother, and i agree with him on that. So, yes, my position has evolved. But i would like to see the american who, faced with 15 million abortions, isnt rethinking his or her position. And i would just stand with the answer, i support the president s position, and comfortably, from a moral standpoint. Norma so you believe it is akin to murder . Vice pres. Bush i support the president s position. Norma fine. Congresswoman ferraro, what are your views on the subversion of church and state with regard to abortion, and you believe it was right for the archbishop of philadelphia to have those letters read in the pulpits of the city and urge voters to fight abortion with their vote . Rep. Ferraro i believe sincerely in separation of church and state. Taking from a historical viewpoint, if you look back to the cementing hundreds when people came here, they came to this country to escape religious persecution. That is the same reason why people come here today, in the 1940s to escape nazism and now, in the 1980s, in 1984, when they can get out of the country, to escape communism so they can come here and practice their religion. Our country is founded on the principle that our government way should be neutral as far as. Religion is concerned. What has happened over the past several years, and i will not let you lay on me the intrusion of state politics into religion or religion into politics, by my comments with reference to the president s policy, because it started in 1980 when this administration was on it for office and the reverend Jerry Falwell became very involved in the campaign. What has happened over the past four years has been, i think, a real fudging of that line between subversion of church and state. The actions of the archbishop, i feel they have not only a right but a responsibility to speak right up. The and even though i have been the person speaking up, i feel that they do have a responsibility to do so and have no problem with it, no more that i did with the priest who marched in vietnam and no more than i did at the time when i Martin Luther king marched in the civil rights marches. I i have absolutely no problem with them speaking up, i think they have an obligation as well as a right. What i do have a problem with is when the president of the United States gets up in dallas and addresses a group of individuals that and says to them, anybody who doesnt support his constitutional amendment for prayer in school is intolerant of religion. Very there are numerous groups who dont support prayer in schools. Numerous religious groups. Are they intolerant of religion, they is that what the president is saying . I reject what im told that the i reverend falwell has been told he will pick two of our Supreme Court justices. That is going a little bit far. That let me say to you, it is more than a fudging of the line, it is a total intrusion and i think it is in violation of the constitution. [applause] [applause] catholic, does it trouble you that so many of the leaders of your church disagree with you, and do you think that youre being treated unfairly in any way by the Catholic Church . Let me tell you that i did not come to my position on abortion very lightly. I am a devout catholic. When i was running for congress i sat and met with the person i felt very close to a monsignor currently a bishop. I spoke to about my personal feelings that i would never have an abortion but i was not quite sure if i were ever to become pregnant as a result of a race if i would be that selfrighteous. I stuck to that and said, jerry, thats not good enough. You know you cant support that position. I said ok. That is my religion. Ill accept the teaching of the church but i cannot impose my religious views on someone else. I truly take an oath as a public official to represent all the people in my district not only the catholics. If there comes a time where i cannot practice my religion and do my job properly. I will resign my job as president bush your rebuttal. And i respect that statement. I really i really truly do. I noticed that mr. Mondale keeps talking in the debate and now its come up here about mr falwell. I dont know where this canard could have come from about mr. Falwell picking the Supreme Court justice. Ronald reagan has made one. That is the only one he has made. We want justices who will interpret the constitution, not legislate. Congresswoman ferrero, your rebuttal. Rep. Ferraro i still find it difficult to believe. Because in this platform the Republican Party passed in dallas, one of the things they did was said that the position on abortion would be a litmus test only for Supreme Court justices but for other federal justices. That seems to me to be a learning of the lines of separation between church and state. From mr. Xt questioning boyd. Like many americans, recently both of you has had an unexperienced an unpleasant experience with the Internal Revenue service. I am not going to prolong the ordeal. Congresswoman ferrero, you disagree with the rule that says that a candidate must report the income or assets of his or her spouse if you get any benefit from them. Your husbands tax return shows that you did benefit because he paid the mortgage and property taxes on your homes. The House Ethics Committee is examining this question but it will not report its findings until after the election. Would you be willing to ask that committee which is controlled by democrats to hurry up its work and report before the election. Let me say that i already did that. If you recall, i stand it i spent about one hour and 45 minutes speaking to 200 reporters on august 21, which is the day after i was required to file my financial statement. I sat for as long as i had questions on the issue and i believe that they were satisfied. I filed more information than any other candidate for National Office in the history of this country. Not only did i agree to file my tax returns, after a little bit of prodding my husband also agreed to file his with not only the Ethics Committee but the fec, but the action that you are speaking about with the Ethics Committee was started by a rightwing legal organization, a foundation knowing that i would have to that there would be an automatic inquiry. We have filed the necessary papers. I have asked them to move along. Unfortunately the house i believe have people in session today. I do not know if they will move. Quite frankly, i would like for that to be taken care of anyway because i want to clear it up. Since that famous august 21 press conference on your family finances, you filed a new report with the Ethics Committee, and this shows that your previous reports were full of mistakes and omissions. For example, you failed to report about 12 trips that were paid for by special interest groups. In at least 18 cases, your holdings were misstated. Do you think it showed that leadership or attention to duty to blame all this on your sloppy accountant . Rep. Ferraro it was true i hired an accountant who had been with our family for well over 40 years. He was filling out the forms. I did not spend time with him. I just gave him my Tax Information and he did it. I have to tell you what we have done since. Ive spent a lot of money having him go through all of those extra ethics forms and he will be doing my taxes. Over the next eight years while we are in the white house and the American Public can be sure it is all taken care of. According to the irs, someone in your bracket normally pays about 28 of his income. What you did was perfectly legal, but do you think it is fair, and is there something wrong with our tax laws that allow such large deductions for wealthy taxpayers . V. P. Bush i kind of like the way that ms. Ferraro reported, because they reported federal taxes, state and local taxes. It is a clear picture. That year, i happened to pay a lot of state and local taxes, which as you know are deducted from the other and so i looked it up the other day. And we paid i think 42 of our gross income in taxes. Mr. Mondale the other night took what i thought, to be honest i thought it was a cheap shot at me, and we did a little looking say about his, and we cannot find his 1981 tax return. It may have been released, it may be my opponent knows. He also made a reference that troubled me very much. She started talking about my chauffeur. I am driven to work by the secret service. So is mrs. Ferraro. So is mr. Mondale. They protected his life for our four years and know they have done a beautiful job. They save the life of the president of the United States. I thought that was a cheap shot telling the American People to try to divide class, rich and poor. But the big question is not whether mrs. Ferraro is doing well. I think they are doing pretty well. And i know barbara and i are doing well. And it is sure that mr. Mondale is doing well with a Million Dollars four in income. But the question really is to get through this disclosure, is the tax cut fair . Are people getting a fair break. The answer is rich are paying 6 more on taxes. And the poor are getting a better break, those lower and middle income people that have borne the burden for a long, long time. So i favor disclosure. I have always disclosed this year i had my taxes and everything i own in a blind blind i didnt even sign my tax return. The trust has been revealed and i was glad to see that i had paid 42 of my gross income in taxes. [applause] please. Mr. Vice president , and how can you claim that your home is in maine for tax purposes, and at the same time your home is in texas for voting purposes . V. P. Bush i am really a texan, but i got one house. Under the law every taxpayer is , allowed what he sells one house at a buys another house to get the rollover. I note that she said that she has a new good accountant. I would like to get his name and phone number, because i think i paid too much in the way of taxes, and residence, legal residence is very different than the house. They say you are living in the Vice President s house. I have got problems with the irs, and so do a lot of people out there. I think i paid too much, nothing ethical. I would like to get some money back. Congressman ferraro, your rebuttal. Rep. Ferraro i would be happy to give you the name of my accountant, but i warn you, he is expensive. I think the question is whether or not the tax cuts and of the tech system currently our government uses is fair. I think that tax system is unfair but it is not something we can address in the short term. The tax cuts Vice President bush and i got three years ago that this president gave out, that is not fair. 200,000, you have a 25,000 tax cut. And if you made less than 10,000, you suffered a loss of more than 400. That is not fair. Not only is it not unfair, but economically it has nearly darn near destroyed this country. That is one of the reasons we are facing this enormous deficit. Mr. Vice president. V. P. Bush i think i have said all i wanted to say. I do not fully address the question. I was in the house of representatives were a couple of terms. I led the fight for disclosure. I believe in it. Before i went into this job, i disclosed everything we had. We did not have any private corporations, but i disclosed absolutely everything. Arthur anderson made out an assets and liabilities statement that went further than any other one and to protect the public interest, we went into this blind trust. I believe in a blind trust because i believe a public official ought not to know whether he is going to benefit directly or indirectly by some holding he might have or something of that nature. I support full disclosure. Thank you. That ends the part of this debate devoted to domestic affairs. We will now turn to Foreign Affairs. Vice president bush, since your administration has come to power, the president is threatening a stern response against terrorism, yet numerous attacks have continued in lebanon and the middle east. Who is to blame . What can be done to stop it . V. P. Bush terrorism is very, very difficult to stop, and i think Everybody Knows that. We had ambassadors killed in sudan and lebanon a long time ago. When you see the israeli building in lebanon after the death of our marines, you see that hit by terrorism, the israelis with all of their experience fighting terrorism, you know it is difficult. When you see hamani with his radical islam resorting to governmentsponsored terrorism, it is very difficult. The intelligence business can do a good job. I am always one that defends the cia. I believe we ought to strengthen it and i believe we still have the best foreign intelligence business in the world, but it is a very difficult to get the Source Information that you need to go after something as shadowy as International Terror. There was a difference between iran and what happened in lebanon. In iran you had a Government Holding a u. S. Embassy, the government sanctioning the takeover of that embassy by those students. The government negotiating with the United States government for their release. In lebanon and the terror that happened at the embassy, you had the government there that wants to help fight against terrorism, but because of the melee in the middle east that is there today and has been there yesterday on the day before as everyone knows, it is a very different thing. What we have got to do is use the best security possible. I do not think you can go assigning blame. The president is the best i have ever seen at accepting that. He has been wonderful about that. I think fairminded people that really understand International Terror knows that it is hard to guard against, and the answer really lies in the middle east and terrorism happening all over the world is a solution to the palestine question. The follow on to camp david, under the umbrella of the reagan september 1982 initiative. That will reduce terror, not eliminate it. You mentioned khomani why isnt your administration done something to take action against arab states that foment this kind of terrorism . V. P. Bush what we have done is to support arab states that went to stand up against International Terror, quite different. We believe supporting without jeopardizing the security of israel in any way because they are our one strategic ally in the area, the one democracy, and our relations with them have never been better. We believe in reaching out to the gulf cooperative counsel states and helping them with defensive weapons to guard against International Terror or radical islam perpetuated by khomani. And because we did that and the saudis chopped out a couple of those intruding airplanes, we have helped keep the peace in the persian gulf. Congresswoman ferrero, you and the former Vice President have criticized the president over the bombings in lebanon. What would you do to prevent attacks . Rep. Ferraro let me first say that terrorism is a global problem. Let me say secondly that it mr. Bush as referred to the embassy that was held in iran. I was at the white house in january 1981 when those hostages, all 52 of them came home alive. It was at that time president reagan gave a speech welcoming them home. Americans were so excited to see them back, but what he said was the United States has been embarrassed for the last time. They will stand tall and if this ever happens again, there will be swift and immediate steps taken to address the wrong that our country has suffered. In april 1983, i was in beirut and visited the ambassador of the embassy. Two weeks later, that embassy was bombed. At that time, take a look at the crazy activities of terrorists. You cannot blame that on anybody. They are going to do crazy things. The following october, there was another bombing that took place at the Marine Barracks where there were 242 young men killed. Right after that bombing occurred, there was a Commission Set up, and that commission did a study of its security arrangements around where marines were sleeping and found that there was negligence, they did not have proper precautions to stop this truck from coming in. The commission issued a report and president reagan got up and said, i am commander in chief. I take responsibility. We all waited for something to be done when he took responsibility. Last month we had our third bombing. The first embassy, there was no gate up. The second time, the gate was open. The third time, the gate was not installed, and what was the president s reaction . The security arrangements were not in yet. The marines guarding it were left to go away and there were other people guarding the embassy. The president said i assume responsibility. I would like to know what that means. Are we going to take proper precautions before we put americans in situations where they are in danger, or are we going to walk away during our arms up in the air, quite a reversal from the first time. Is this president going to take some action . Some democrats cringe at the word spying and covert activity. Do you believe they have a legitimate role in countering terrorist activity . Rep. Ferraro i think they have a legitimate role in gathering information. The cia had given information to our administration with a reference to the actual threats that embassy was going to be bombed. It was not that the cia was at fault. There is a legitimate reason for the cia to be in existence and that is to gather information for our security. When i see the cia doing things like they are doing in Central America, supporting a covert war, i do not support that activity. The cia is there to protect our government, not to subvert other governments. Vice president bush. [applause] v. P. Bush i think i just heard mrs. Ferrero said she would do away with all covert action. That has serious ramifications that the Intelligence Community knows. This is serious business. Sometimes it is quiet support for friend. I will leave that there. Let me help you with the difference between iran and lebanon. Iran, we were held by a foreign government. In lebanon, you had a wanton terrorist action where the government opposed it. We went to lebanon to give peace a chance, stop the bombing of civilians in beirut, to remove 13,000 terrorists in lebanon, we did. We saw the formation of a government of reconciliation. As somebody to suggest that these men died in shame, they better not tell the parents of those marines. They gave peace a chance, and our allies were with us, the british, the french, and the italians. Congresswoman ferraro. Rep. Ferraro let me say first of all that i almost resent your patronizing attitude that you have to teach me about Foreign Policy. I have been a member of congress for six years. I was there with the embassy was held hostage in iran and i have been there and seen what has happened in the past several months of your administration. Secondly, please do not categorize my answers either. Leave the interpretation of my answers to the American People who are watching this debate, and let me say further, that no one has ever said those young men were killed through the negligence of this administration and others ever died in shame. No one who has a child who is 19 or 20 years old, a son, would never say that about the loss of anyone elses child. Mr. White. Congresswoman ferraro, you have repeated the city would not want your son to die for it i cause. Recently mr. Mondale has said he may become necessary to conduct a military located on nicaragua. Under what circumstances would you advocate the use of military force in Central America . Rep. Ferraro i would advocate the use of force when it is necessary to protect the security of our country, protect our security interests, or protect our people or protect the interests of our friends and neighbors. When president i am jumping the gun a bit, when mr. Mondale referred to the quarantine of Central America, a country in Central America, what he is referring to was a last resort after all other means of attempting to settle that region had been exhausted. Quite frankly, now what is being done by this administration is americanizing of a regional conflict and moving it militarily instead of promoting the process, which is the process that is in place with the support of mexico and colombia and panama and venezuela. Instead of supporting the process, our administration has in nicaragua been supporting covert activities to keep that revolution going in order to overthrow the sandinista government. In el salvador, it is not pushing the head of the government to move toward correction of the human rights problems that existed there, and now this administration seems befuddled by the fact that nicaragua is moving to participate in the process, and el salvador is reaching out to the gorillas in order to negotiate a peace. What Fritz Mondale and i feel about the situation down there is that we should do it deal first through negotiation. Force is not a first resort, but a last resort in any instance. A followup please. Many times in its history, the United States is going to war in order to defend freedom. Does your answer mean that you would be willing to forgo the use of military force even if it meant the establishment of a soviet backed dictatorship so close to our own borders . Rep. Ferraro i assume you are speaking about the government of nicaragua. Work with that government to achieve a pluralistic society. They have elections coming up on november 4. I think we have to work with them to achieve a peaceful solution to bring about a pluralistic country. I am not willing to live with a force that could be a danger to our country. I would see that our country would be there putting pressure on neighboring countries of honduras, costa rica, el salvador to promote the kind of society we can live with in this country. Vice president bush, both cuba and nicaragua are reported to be making extensive preparations to defend themselves against an american invasion, which they claim could come this fall and even some of your democratic opponents have suggested the Administration May be planning a december surprise invasion. Can you tell us under what circumstances a reelected administration would consider force in Central America or the caribbean . V. P. Bush we do not think we would be required to use force. Let me point out there are 2000 cuban military and 7500 socalled cuban advisors in nicaragua. There are 55 American Military in el salvador. I went down to speak to the comidantes and el salvador and told them that they had to move with the president of el salvador to respect human rights. They have done that. I am not saying it is perfect, but the difference between el salvador and nicaragua is like the difference between night and day. El salvador went to the polls. Mr. Duarte was elected by 70 of the people in a certifiably free election. In nicaragua, you have something different. You have a marxistleninist group talking democracy. They have aborted their democracy. They have the holy father and cracked down on the only press organization there, censoring the press. They have not had any human rights at all. They will not permit free elections. Mr. Cruz who was to be the only viable challenger to the sandinistas went down there and found that the ground rules were so unfair that he could not wage a campaign. One country is devoid of human rights. The other is struggling to perfect their democracy. We do not like it went nicaragua exports its revolution or serves as a conduit for supplies coming in from such democracies as north korea, bulgaria, the soviet union and cuba to try to destabilize el salvador. We are concerned about that because we went to see this trend for democracy continue. There have been Something Like 13 countries since we have come in move toward the democratic route. Grenada is not unrelated. I have a big difference with mrs on that. We gave those countries a chance. We save those lives, and mo student said they were in jeopardy. Grenada was a proud moment because we stood up for democracy. In terms of nuclear weapons, there is not that kind of a threat. It is mr. Mondale they propose the quarantine, not Ronald Reagan. [applause] considering this countrys long respect for the rule of international law, it wasnt right for the United States to be involved in harming the miners of nicaragua and similarly allowed the world court to not adjudicate. V. P. Bush i support what we are doing. It was supported by congress under the law. My only regret is that the aide for the contras, those people that are fighting, we call them Freedom Fighters. They want to see democracy perfected in nicaragua. Am i to understand from this assault on covert action that nowhere in the world would we do something that was considered just off base when mrs. Ferraro said she would never support it, which he never supported if the violation of human rights was so great and support was necessary for Freedom Fighters. Yes, we are for the contras. Everyone who is not for this, everyone who wants to let the sandinista government prevail less thancastro did, 5 of the contras supported samosa. These are people that support human rights. We should support them. Rep. Ferraro i spent a good and if time in january, had an opportunity to speak to the contras after being in nicaragua and el salvador. Let me say the situation as it exists now because of this administrations policies are not getting better. We are not moving toward a more secure area of the world. The number of troops the sandinistas have accumulated has risen from 12,000 to 50,000. I did not support the mining, the horrors in nicaragua. It is a violation of international law. Congress did not support it. As a matter of fact just this week, congress voted to cut off covert aid to nicaragua unless a request is made and there is evidence of need for it and Congress Approves it again in march. Congress does not get laid on. The covert activities which i opposed in nicaragua, those cia covert activities in that specific country are not supported by the congress and the majority of people throughout this country. V. P. Bush well, i would simply like to make the distinction again between those countries that are searching for democracy, and a handful of countries that have violated human rights and are going the marxist route, ortega, the avowed marxists. They do not believe in the church, free elections, all the values we believe in. It is our policy to support the democracy there and when you have Freedom Fighters that want to perfect that revolution and go the democratic route, we believe in giving them support. We are for democracy, for negotiation. Three dollars out of every four dollars we sent down there is for economic aid, and to support the people chance to eat and live and to and enjoy life. You would not get that from listening to mr. Mondale. Vice president bush, the last three republican administrations, eisenhower, nixon and ford met with the , soviets and got agreements on arms control. The soviets have not changed that much. Can you tell us why president reagan has not met with soviet ministers at all and only met with foreign minister graham ecoless than one month ago . Yes, i can. There have been three separate soviet leaders. In three and a half years, three separate leaders. The soviets and not been willing to talk. We are the ones that went to the table at inf. We had a moral proposal. Ban an entire generation of intermediate Nuclear Force weapons and if you will not do that, do not leave your allies in europe in a monopoly position, the soviets with 1200 of these things and the alliance with none. We did not think that was the way to keep the peace. The first thing the president did when he came into office was a proposal to make the destabilization of weapons. When the soviet said we do not like that proposal, we said we would be more flexible. I, at the urging of the president , went to geneva and laid on the table a treaty to ban all chemical weapons. We dont want them to have a monopoly. But we said, look, lets come together. Come over here and see what were doing, we will come over there and see what you are doing , but lets save the kids of this world from chemical weapons. A brilliant proposal to get rid of all of them. And the soviets nyet, nyet, nyet. [laughter] the mutual balance force reduction. Theyre not even willing to tell us the base. This is ferrara knows that. How many troops they have . We have had an agreement with them on the hotline, but the cartermondale made an agreement, but the Democratic Senate, they were a democratic administration. The Democratic Senate wouldnt even ratify the agreement. It was flawed, unverifiable, and it was not good. Our president wants to reduce, not just to stop, he wants to reduce, dramatically, nuclear weapons. And when the soviets know thisare going to have strong president to deal with and when this new administration can solidify his position, then they can talk. If they think the opposition are going to give up the they may just sweat it out for four more weeks. Who knows . You were once quoted as saying a nuclear war is winnable. Is that still your belief . And if not, under what condition what circumstances would you use clear weapons . Vice pres. Bush no, i dont think its winnable. I was quoted wrong, obviously, because i never said that. I did learn that when i was director of Central Intelligence. I dont think there would be any disagreement, is based on that concept. But i agree with the president. It should never be fought. Nuclear weapons it should never be fought with, and that is our approach. Therefore, lets encourage the soviets to come to the table. I wish everybody couldve seen that one. The president , given the facts to granito and all of these nuclear meetings, excellent, right on top of that subject matter, and i bet greminko went back to the soviet union saying, this president is calling the shots, we had better move. But do you know why i think well get an agreement . Its in the interest of the soviet union to make it, just as its in the interest of the United States. They are not deterred by rhetoric. I listened to their rhetoric for two years at the united nations. Ive lived in a communist country. Its not rhetoric that decides agreement. Its selfinterest. Congresswoman ferrero, you and mr. Mondale are for a verifiable Nuclear Freeze. Some democrats have said that verification may not be possible. How would you verify such an agreement and make sure the soviets are not cheating . Rep. Ferraro let me say first of all that i dont think there is any issue more important in this campaign that the issue of war and peace. Today is Eleanor Roosevelts 100th birthday. Let me quote her. She said it is not enough to want peace, you must believe in it. Its not enough to believe in it, you must work for it. This administrations policies have indicated quite the opposite. The last time i heard a Vice President bush blame the fact that they did not meet with the soviet leader and this is the first president in 40 years not to meet with the soviet counterpart he said the reason was because there are three soviet leaders in the past three and a half years. I went and got a computer printout. It is five pages of the World Leaders the soviet leaders have met with, and theyre not little people. They are france, germany, and cyprus. You go down the line, five pages of people soviet leaders have managed to meet with and somehow they couldnt meet with the president of the United States. In addition to not meeting with the soviet counterpart, this is the first president and you are right, since the start of negotiating arms control agreements who has not negotiated an arms control agreement. He has been opposed to every single one that every other president has negotiated, including eisenhower, including ford, and including nixon. Withlet me just say that, reference to the Vice President s comments about the intent and the desire of the United States in this administration, the soviet union did walk out of the talks, i agree. But it seems to me that 1982, when the administration presented its start proposal, that it wasnt a realistic proposal and that was a comment that was made by secretary haik after he left office. It dealt with just landbased nuclear missiles, which is where soviets had the bulk of their missiles. But that aside, in 1982, i believe it was, at their own negotiator came out with a proposal called the walk in the woods proposal, which would have limited the number of nuclear arms in europe. And that proposal was turned down by the administration, a proposal presented by its own administrator. Now, i delighted they met with am mr. Cominco, but they could have had that opportunity and and 1982 as well. I guess my big promise congresswoman, speaking of limits, i have to impose a limit on you. Vice president bush. Vice pres. Bush i think there is quite a difference between cyprus and the leader of the free world, Ronald Reagan. In terms of meeting. The soviet union will meet with a lot of different people. Weve been very close touch with mr. Micheron, mr. Cole, and others that have met with the leaders of the soviet union. But thats quite different than meeting with the president of the United States. The soviets say, we will have a meeting when we think there can be progress. Yet they left those talks. Id like to correct my opponent on the walk in the woods. It was the soviet union unwilling to discuss the walk in that was the woods. They were the ones that gunned it down first, and the record is clear on that. Mrs. Ferrero mentioned the inflexibility on our position on strategic arms. Yes, we offered first to get rid of all of those to reduce the f18s and all of those weapons. We said, if thats not good enough, theres flexibility. Thats an important point in terms of negotiations. Congresswoman, he that taketh away, has to give back. Robbed you of your rebuttal. Therefore, you will have two minutes to rebut. Rep. Ferraro you robbed me of my followup. Thats where you robbed me. Congresswoman ferrero, most polls show americans feel that the republicans, more than the democrats, are more better able to keep the u. S. Out of war. Weve had four years of relative peace under president reagan. How can you convince the world convince the American Public that the world would be a safer place under cartermondale . Rep. Ferraro i think, first of all, you have to take a look at the current situation. We now have 50,000 nuclear warheads. We are building at the rate of five or six a day between us. Weve been doing that since this administration came into office. I think what you can do is look what they have done and recognize that they are not going to do much in the future. Do we continue to build, because an arms race does not lead to anything, it leads to another arms race and thats it. Vice president mondale has indicated what he would do, first of all, is contact his soviet counterpart and set up an annual summit meeting. That is number one. I dont think you can start negotiating until you start talking. Secondly, he would issue a challenge. And the challenge would be in the nature of temporary, mutual, verifiable moratorium to halt testing in the air, in the atmosphere, that would respond with a challenge from the soviet union. We hope to sit down and negotiate a treaty. That was done in 1960. I dont know what your lights are doing, sam. You have another minute. Rep. Ferraro ok, i am watching the blinking, so i have another minute. What that would do is it would give us the opportunity to negotiate a treaty. That was done in 1960 by president kennedy what he did 1963. Was he issued a challenge to the soviet union. He said we will not test in space, in the atmosphere if you will not. They did not. In two months, they sat down and they negotiated a treaty. We do not now have to worry about that type of testing. It can be done. It will be done, if only you have the will to do it. Again, its mutual, verifiable, and it is a challenge that once that challenge is not met, testing would resume and we would continue testing as well. Our last series of questions on Foreign Affairs from mr. Boyd. Congresswoman ferrero, you have had little or no experience in military matters, and yet you might one day find yourself commanderinchief of the armed forces. How can you convince the American People and a potential enemy that you would know what to do to protect this nations security and do you think the soviets might be tempted to take advantage of you simply because you are a woman . Rep. Ferraro are you saying that i would have to have fought in a war in order to love peace . [applause] im not saying that. Im asking you you know what i asked. Rep. Ferraro alright, i think what happens is when you try to equate whether or not i have had military experience, that is the natural conclusion. It is about as valid as saying you would have to be black in order to despise racism, that you would have to be female in order to be offended by sexism. That is just not so. I think if you take a look at where ive been, both in the congress and where i intend to go, the type of person i am, i think that the people of this country can rely upon the fact that i would be a leader. I dont think the soviet union for one minute can sit down to make a determination on what i will do if i am ever in a position to have to do something with reference to the soviet union. Quite frankly, im prepared to do whatever is necessary in order to secure this country and to make sure that security is maintained. Secondly, if the soviet union were to ever believe they could challenge the United States with any sort of Nuclear Forces or otherwise if i was in a position of leadership in this country, they would be assured that they would be met with swift, concise, and certain retaliation. Let me just say one other thing. The most important thing, though, i think as a leader is what one has to do is get to the point where you were not put into that position. And the way you get to that position of moving away from having to make a decision on force or anything else is by moving toward arms control. And that is not what has been done over the past four years. I think if you were to take a look at the failures of this administration, that would have to be number one. I will not put myself in that position as a leader in this country. I will move immediately towards arms control negotiations. For my follow, im going to borrow a lead from the sunday night debate between your principles and ask you, what is the single most important question you would like to ask your opponent here on Foreign Policy . Rep. Ferraro oh, i dont have a single most question. I guess the concern i have is a concern not only as a Vice President ial candidate but as a citizen of this country. My concern is that were not doing anything to stop the arms race. And it seems to me that if we keep talking about military inferiority, which we do not have, we are at a comparable level with the soviet union. Our joint chiefs of staff said they would Never Exchange our military power for theirs. I guess the thing that i would that sooncommitment they are going to do something about making this a safer world for all of us. Vice president bush, four years ago, president reagan insisted that a military buildup would bring the soviets to negotiate seriously. Since then, weve spent almost 1 trillion on defense, but the soviets are still building their military forces as rapidly as we are and there are no negotiations. Was the president s original premise, his whole strategy, wrong . Vice pres. Bush no, i think his strategy was not only correct but is correct. Clearly, when we came into office the American People recognized that we had slipped into positions of inferiority on various things. Some of our planes, as the president points out, were older than the pilots. Ships that couldnt go out to sea, and you had a major problem with the military. Actually, the morale wasnt very good either. So we have had to strengthen the military and were well on the way to getting that job done. America is back in terms of military strength, in terms of our ability to deter aggression and keep the peace. All the same time, however, we have made proposals and proposals and proposals, sound proposals, on reducing nuclear weapons. The strategic arms reduction talks were good proposals and it was the soviets that left the table. The intermediate Nuclear Force talks were sound talks and i wish the soviet union had continued them. The chemical weapon treaty to ban all chemical weapons, it was our initiative, not the soviets, and we wish they would seek a new, and seek verification. But much more important, you reduce the level of terror. Similar to talking to them in vienna about conventional force reductions. Weve talked to them about human rights. Ive met with mr. Andropov and mr. Chernyenko. We mentioned and tried to do something about the human rights question. The suppression of soviet jews is absolutely intolerable. We have to keep pushing forward on the moral grounds, as well as on the arms reduction grounds. But it is my view that because this president has been strong , and because we have redressed the imbalances and i think we are close to getting that job done the soviets are more likely to make a deal. The soviets made a treaty when they thought we were going to bm system. A so i am optimistic for the future once they realize they will have this strong, answerable principled president to negotiate with, strong leadership with demonstrable flexibility on arms control. Now, ill give you a chance, mr. Vice president , to ask a question you would like to ask of your opponent. Vice pres. Bush i have none id like to ask her, but i would like to use the time. Talk about the world series or something of that nature. Let me put it this way. I dont have any questions. We are so different the reaganbush is so different from administration is so different from the cartermondale administration that the American People have the clearest choice. Its the question of going back to the field ideas of the past, where we came in, 21. 5 on those Interest Rates, inflation, despair, malaise, no leadership, blaming the American People for failed leadership or another option. Keep this recovery going until it benefits absolutely everybody. Peace at home, peace abroad, prosperity, opportunity. I would like to hear her talk on those things, but the yellow light is flashing and we will leave it there. Nothing on the world series . Vice pres. Bush well [laughter] congresswoman ferraro . Rep. Ferraro i think the Vice President s comment about the cartermondale administration really typifies this administration. It is an administration looks backwards, not forwards and into the future. I must say i tickled by their am comments on human rights. The soviet union in 1979 allowed 51,000 people to emigrate because in large measure this administrations policies over the past four years. 1313 people got out of the soviet union in 1983, 1984. Thats not a great record on human rights, and certainly not human rights achievements. This Administration Spent 1 trillion on defense but it hasnt gotten 1 trillion of national security. Vice president bush, your rebuttal. Vice pres. Bush no rebuttal. Well, we then can go to the closing statements. Each statement will be four minutes in length. We will begin with the Vice President. Vice pres. Bush in a couple of you, theee weeks American People will be based with the choice. The clearest choice in some 50 years. And the choice is do we move forward with strength and prosperity, or do we go back to weakness, despair, disrespect . Ronald reagan and i have put our trust in the American People. We have moved some of the power away from washington, d. C. And put it back with the people. We are pulling together. The neighborhoods are safer because crime is going down. Your sons and daughters are doing better in school. Test scores are going up. Theres a new opportunity lying out there in the future. Science, technology, and space offering opportunity to everyone. And abroad there is new leadership and respect. And Ronald Reagan is clearly the strong leader of the free world, and ill be honest with you. Its a joy to serve with a president who does not apologize for the United States of america. Mr. Mondale, on the other hand, has one idea. Go out and tax the American People. And then he wants to repeal indexing to wipe out the one protection those at the lowest and of the economic scale have, protecting them from being rammed into higher and higher tax brackets. We just owe our country too much to go back to that kind of an approach. Id like to Say Something to the young people. I started a business. I know what it is to have a dream and have a job and work hard to employ others and to participate in the american dream. And some of you out there are finishing high school or college and some of you are starting out in the working place. And we want for you, americas greatest gift, and that is opportunity. Yes, i did serve in combat. I was shot down when i was a young kid, scared to death. I saw friends die, but that heightened my convictions about peace. It is absolutely essential that we guaranteed the young people that they will not know the agony of war. Americas gift, opportunity and peace. Now we do have some unfinished business. We must continue to go ahead. The world is too complex to go back to vacillation and weakness. We have too much going on to go back to the failed policies of the past. The future is too bright not to give it our best shot. Together, we can go forward and lift america up to meet her greatest dreams. Thank you very much. [applause] thank you very much. I must say now, in matters of equity, you will be allowed applause at the end of your closing statement. Rep. Ferraro i hope somebody wants to applaud. Being the candidate for Vice President of my party is the greatest honor i have ever had, but its not only a personal achievement for geraldine ferraro, and certainly not the bond i feel as i go throughout the women of this country. I wouldnt be standing here in france mondale did not have the courage in my party did not stand for the values it does, the values of fairness and equal opportunity. Those values make our country strong. And the future of this country and how strong it will be is what this election is all about. Over the last two months i have been traveling all over the country talking to people about the future. I went to kentucky and spoke to the die house family. He is worried about the deficits and how high Interest Rates are going to affect his job. Every place i go, i see young parents with Young Children and they say to me, what are we going to do to stop this Nuclear Arms Race . I was in dayton, ohio a week and a half ago and i sat with the allen family, who lived next door to a toxic dump. And they are very concerned those toxicants are seeping into water they and their neighbors drink. Those people love this country and are patriotic. Thats not the patriotism youre seeing in the commercials as you watch television these days. Their patriotism is not only a pride in the country as it is, but a pride in this country that is Strong Enough to meet the challenges of the future. Do you know, when we find jobs for the 8. 5 Million People who are unemployed in this country, it will our economy stronger. And that will be a patriotic act. We reduce the deficits, we cut Interest Rates. I know the Vice President doesnt believe that, but thats so. Young people can buy houses. That is profamily, and that will be a patriotic act. When we educate our children. Good lord, theyre going to be able to compete in the World Economy and that makes a stronger, and that is a patriotic act. When we stop the arms race. We make this a safer, saner world, and that is a patriotic act. And when we keep the peace, young men dont die, and thats a patriotic act. Those are the key to the future. And who can be the leader for the future. When Walter Mondale was attorney general of minnesota, he led the fight for a man who could not afford to get justice because he couldnt afford a lawyer. When he was in the senate, he fought for child nutrition programs. He wrote the fair housing act. He even investigated the concerns and the abuses of Migrant Workers. And why did he do that . Those werent popular causes. You know, no one had ever heard of clarence gideon, the man without a lawyer. Children dont vote. And Migrant Workers arent exactly a powerful lobby in this country. But he did it because it was right. Mondale said he would rather lose a battle over decency than when one over self interest. And i agree with him. This campaign is not over. For our country, for our future, for the principles that we believe in, Walter Mondale and i have just begun to fight. [applause] thank you very much. Id like to thank Vice President for, congresswoman ferraro, joining us in this league of women voters debate. Id like to join you in thinking them, the city of philadelphia, and the league of women voters. The league of women voters next debate will take place in kansas city on october 21. The subject will be Foreign Affairs and it will begin at 8 00 p. M. Eastern time. Again, our thanks. We hope youll join us on the 21st. Thank you. [applause] [applause] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2020] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [applause] tonight on lectures in history, jay buckley teaches a class about lewis and clarks expedition. He is a preview. As they proceeded from this confluence of the marias river and the missouri river, they started to in encounter a different landscape on the plains. And lewis forged ahead to make sure we were on the right stream. He was separated from the group. He was hour period nearly killed by a buffalo, a ring, ar will the rattlesnake, and a grizzly bear. That night in his journal he animal kingdome has conspired against me scared out of his mind. Fortunately, the bear did not eat him. He survived that. Falls and in great wrote that this was such a againid view, he said, i see the falls and was so much disgusted with the imperfect idea that it conveyed that i decided to draw my pen across it and begin again. I mighteflected that not succeed rather than pinning the first thoughts of my mind. You can watch the entire class with him juncker University Professor jay buckley tonight at 8 00 and midnight eastern on our weekly series, lectures in history. Youre watching American History tv. 48 hours of programming on American History, every weekend. Follow us on twitter for information on our schedule and to keep up with the latest history news. On the presidency, veteran historical interpreters portraying Thomas Jefferson and George Washington engage in a conversation about their roles in the revolutionary war and the Constitutional Government that followed. We hear about their exploits and about where their politics and policies diverged. Thomas Jeffersons Monticello and George Washingtons mount