Transcripts For CSPAN3 The Contenders James Blaine 20240712

Youre looking at some of the images from the 1884 election and listening to songs in support of james g. Blaine of maine and his running mate, john logan. Tonight our series continues and were live in the home of james g. Blaine, and since 1920, the official residence of maines governor. Were inside the blaine house with maines sitting governor. Do you have a sense of the man while youre here . Absolutely. Welcome to maine and welcome to the peoples house. Mr. Blaine is here every day and we see his spirit every evening, because we always say good night to him. What is your sense of living the house was built many years ago, many people have lived in it over the years, but he really is president in a lot of ways. What have you come to learn about the man by living in his midst . He not only was a very strong supporter and founder of the Republican Party in maine but a national leader, and started maine on its course to where we are now. And very, very influential both in the press, in state government, federal government. The man was a powerhouse, bigtime powerhouse on a National Scale and very proud to be honored to be allowed to stay here and be a steward of the house for the next four years. As governors grow, you probably have the best commute in america because its right across the street from the capital building. Its great. If he was here today, i would ask him to put a tunnel under the road. And maybe better airconditioning. Were pleased to be here tonight to learn more about james g. Blaine. I know for many people he has really faded into the pages of history, but were going to learn more about the man who brought the Republican Party to your state, and your state. Thanks for hosting us. Thank you. Again, welcome to the state of maine and to the peoples house. Thank you. Were going to learn more about james g. Blaines america and about the Republican Party he was so influential in bringing to this state. Were going to be moving into the Reception Room here at the Governors Mansion. Two guests are waiting for me and they will be my guests throughout the program. While were getting set up in there, ill show you a clip from a roundtable discussion that cspan hosted. Richard smith talks about james g. Blaine and his times. Well see you in just a minute or so. 1884 against cleveland. And before that, he ran for the republican nomination. Ironically, in 1876, it was blaine who prevented Ulysses Grant from coming back or 1880, it was blaine who prevented Ulysses Grant coming back for a second term. Besides being secretary of state for James Garfield and Chester Arthur and Benjamin Harrison. He was secretary of state under three president s. What else did he do . He was in congress, he was speaker of the house, he was a very effective, ironwilled speaker. He changed some of the rules in the house. Im not sure exactly which rules they are. It seems to me speaker of the house are always changing rules somewhat to their advantage. But a smart, capable guy but corrupt, probably. Remember, this was the period after the civil war when congress was much more central, much more potent than it had been. The reaction against the strong executive set in. To be a speaker of the house, to be a power of congress in the 1870s, 1880s meant a lot more than it perhaps would today. Do you have anything to say about mr. Blaine . If he had run, how would things have changed . I think he would be regarded as the best president between lynn son and t. R. Why . He was assertive. He had intellectual heft. He had a lot of talent. And i think once he had actually achieved people are consumed by they lust after the presidency. Its a distorting, warping malignancy that they suffer from. If they survive it and they win the office, i think blaine is someone like clay clay and blaine have a great deal in common. They were both charismatic, polarizing figures who i think in office would have distinguished themselves. And, as promised, we are in the Reception Room at the blaine house. Let me introduce you to our two special guests who would be with us for this program. Earl is maines state historian, and the director of maines Historic Preservation. Elizabeth leonard is the chair of the History Department and is an expert on the civil war region era of history. Let me have you set the stage for us about mid1880s america. Were 20 years past the civil war. What was the country like at that time as were going into this election in which he was a contender . I would start by saying that were a long ways past the civil war in many ways, and i think thats indicated by the fact that there is going to be a democratic president that is elected that year. And that would have been unthinkable just a short time before that. So thats one thing to say. Why would it have been unthinkable . Because the republicans were the winners of the war and they had controlled the government for a long time, and they had controlled reconstruction, and it feels to many people like a handoff to the south to let the democrats come into the white house. Im going to stay with you for a second because maine is your expertise. Talk to me about north and south america excuse me, northern and Southern States and the difference between the economies. The civil war had, of course, crushed the economy in the south, so one of the key goals of reconstruction was to get the economy up and running again, and that was largely on the way to success certainly by the mid1880s. But it is, i would say, very much on northern terms how the south is being rebuilt. James g. Blaine was a powerhouse. By 1884 he is known internationally as well as nationally. But maine hadnt been in the union all that long. Maine had originally been part of massachusetts since the colonial times, became a state in 1820. We went into the union as the 23rd state. We were part of the missouri compromise. Missouri was enslaved, maine was free. By the post civil war period, maine had initially suffered a bit of a setback during the civil war. We sent about 70,000 men to the war. About 10,000 had been lost and our population in that decade of the 1860s actually did not grow. But by the period of the 1884 election, maine was really getting back on its feet. Maine has always had wonderful resourcebased industries, so we had ice, we had granite, we had textiles, we had shoes, and blaine really was a part of and a beneficiary of this very robust economy at the time. He contended against the democrat over cleveland who won later on. The Republican Party that nominated him, this was his third try for the white house, unsuccessful to get even a nomination two times earlier. What was the key to his success in securing the nomination in 1884 . Well, persistence always is part of the story, i suppose, and to continue to try as he did, and he was certainly recognized as a leading, leading figure in the Republican Party. There is no question. One of his many nicknames was mr. Republican and he was certainly a leading figure. So that would be part of the story. He also had some great enemies at the time who were trying to deny him the nomination, so if you could explain the split in the Republican Party, if you will, please. There were a group of moderates. They were called in 1884 the mud lumps, and they were in many cases the intelligence from boston, from new york, from philadelphia. These were folks who believed that blaine was a very corrupt individual. You think, for example, of henry adams who wrote democracy and the senator in democracy who is a dark figure is james g. Blaine and modelled upon him. Obviously this was a very close election. Will you tell me about the results . I think he only loses by 30 or 40 electoral votes, is that correct . Yes. And the actual vote itself, 10 Million People vote and he loses the election by 25,000 votes nationally, and the key to the loss is the loss of new york state, about a thousand votes. And new york state was also the place where a rising young star, theodore roosevelt, was beginning to make his presence known. Was he an influence in the outcome of the election . He was considered one of the liberals, and indeed thats a trend that began his career in that direction at least into the 1890s. Whats interesting about the 1884 election that has some he can echoes today is they were highly personal. In a way we often today dont think 19th century politics were, but they were very personal. Especially with andrew jackson, i would say things get really personal. Its a fight about blaine as a corrupt politician, but perhaps cleveland had a child out of wedlock somewhere in the country and theyre slinging nasty mud at each other. Theres two phrases that Even High School students study in their history books that are from this campaign. First is the title of rum, romanism and rebellion. Who said it and why was it so important in the campaign . That was a minister named bouchard, and about a week before the election, he gave a talk that blaine was party to in which he denounced the Democratic Party as the party of rum, romanism and rebellion. Rum, prohibition. Romanism, the Roman Catholic church, and rebellion, the south. That phrase was carried quickly by the telegraph and the newspapers all over the country, and its one of the phrases that apparently contributed to blaines loss. Wasmany people actually thought that he had said it is what i understood. That is right. And rather it is just that he did not denounce it. And effected the new York Catholic vote in the end . Very much so. Absolutely. Was there an anti catholic mood in the country in some sectors . Certainly, even still. There had been since the 1840s when the irish first were immigrating in such large numbers and some would say that anti catholic sentiment went further back than that. But yes, and i think that persisted too and the prohibitionists, the Temperance Movement was also rubbing up against that as well. The second phrase and you eluded to this on grover clevlands side is ma ma wheres my pa . The rejoined of that is gone to the white house ha, ha, ha. What was that all about . That is about this accusation that cleveland had a child out of wedlock somewhere and in fact that he was not the moral upstanding man that could be set up to challenge the corrupt and devious blaine. He chose a tactic, as i read, which was not to deny. Right and apparently to pay child support, to find the child and pay for its orphan, pay for the child and the orphanage. A lesson perhaps for modern politicians is come right at it head on. Just come out and admit it. I also have a book here because obviously the media, the newspapers were partisan at the time. This is a book that james g. Blaine wrote, 20 years of congress which helped set the stage for his campaign i understand. This was very well recieved. Yes, the first volume he began to write it in 1881. I think shortly after he was secretary of state for the first time. The first volume was published in 1884, maybe just in time for the campaign. The second volume did not appear until 1886. However, it was a highly popular twovolume best seller. Apparently sold tens of thousands of copies. It was his personal account of his experiences in washington from the time of the civil war to the early 1880s. He made a lot of money from this. He did indeed. Was it one of the reasons he was he able to buy this house . Do you now . Yes, i think it contributed to that. Well not this house though. The house we are now in actually goes back much earlier. In 1862, which is a critical year for him, he is speaker of the maine house of representatives and at the same time he is also running for congress for the firs time. It is in 1862 that he buys this house for 5,000 and he and his wife, harriet move in with their family. This house had been built just a few years before in the 1830s by a retired sea captain. And this became his great Political Center for the rest of his life. In other words, he hosted many dignitaries here, had lots of meetings here . What you have to bear in mind is that in 1859, blaine becomes the chair of the Republican Party in maine and it is a post he holds until he becomes secretary of state in 1881. In that 20 or so year period, this house is Election Central for the Republican Party in maine as well as the springboard for his national campaign. If people could see, the the capital is right outside our windows here. Yes. The parking lot is across the street from the State Capitol building. This was a very strategic decision to acquire this house in the location that it is in. And i believe Ulysses Grant visted here, isnt that correct . He did indeed. He stayed here. He stayed here for a couple of days. Well i want to tell our viewers that we are going to invite you in a little bit in our conversation here. In our contenders series, we are looking at 14 men and they are all men given the president ial election process in this country, who were candidates for president in their time, did not succeed in the quest for the white house but still had an outsize influence on American History. James g. Blaine, someone who was, as i mentioned at the outset, really known internationally but has really fallen behind in the history books. So we are going to spend some time tonight digging into what made him so well known and really why he ended up failing in his bid for the white house. Our phone lines will be open and we will take calls probably about 20 minutes past the hour and we welcome your questions, or your comments or your additions to our discussion of history of the gilded age in america and the burgeoning Republican Party and its influence in american life. I mentioned that we are going to be talking about some of his other campaigns and i wanted to start withgo back to 1876 which is the first time he ran for the white house. He was nominated at that time, at the convention, by someone who coined the term the plumed knight. Gentleman by the name of robert ingersoll. Do you know any more about ingersoll and about that speech and why the phrase stuck . My understanding of that speech is that it is a defense of blaine against accusations of corruption in connection with the Railroad Industry. And that that was how ingersoll wanted to introduce him to demonstrate that not everybody believed that he was as corrupt as some people had come to think he was. Why did the phrase stick . Did it speak to some about james g. Blaine . I suspect it spokehe seems to have been a kind of person who really had great admirers and tremendous enemies and detractors. And i think his admirers thought he was a great hero. I think also it was kind a label that stuck because in the cartoons of the day, both pro and con, the plumed knight was a wonderful image to create. I mean there was a lot of interest still in romantic literature, in old english literature. And he was often shown in an elizabethan costume or a knight in shining armor. It was a perfect kind of image for him. And we are looking at one of the political cartoons you brought along. How important were political cartoons in affecting the electorate in that age . They were tremendously important. This was a time in which a pictorial publications of founded in america for the first time. They were very widespread. They were very easily produced. In the case of the political journals, you have a judge which was pro republican and another who was pro democratic. In the pages of those magazines, the one that comes from the judge, which shows blaine as the elder statesmen in his elizabethan costume. All around him are letters from states all over the country begging him to become president. This is the definitely a Perot Campaign cartoon. Tell us about the mugwumps in 1884. Include a halfbreeds. He halfbreeds referring to those who did not support alescis grant and the stalwarts for those who did. If im not mistaken. Which faction was james g playing a part of . The halfbreeds. What happened to the convention that he was not successful in getting the nomination . Well essentially a short time before, the mulligan letters were revealed and that created a big scandal for him the letters involved a very questionable stock deal involving one of the railroads and that clouded the picture for him in 1876. The nomination went to . I want to garfield. Plane recognize that this was happening at the convention. He actually was im sorry, in 78 went to hayes. 80 was garfield. He ran again in 1880. Where the half breeds and the stalwarts still very active in the party by then . I am not sure that they had those terms anymore. There was still divisions within the party. That year, James Garfield did get the nomination thanks to blaine in many way. Blaine wanted that nomination himself that it came after many many ballots. He threw his votes to garfield. What happened to him after that . He became secretary of state in 1881. Garfield was struck by an assassins bullet in 1881. I read that james g. Blaine was actually with him in the train station. Yes, he was. They were walking arm in arm peridot they were very good friends. I remember reading something that garfield never just their friendship. They were good friends and were together at that point. They were setting off the train to head north, i believe, to give some speeches. That is right. We are going to spend a little bit of time before we get to calls and warblings character. We have alluded to some of the suggestions about corruption and alike. Before we get to, that if you were to walk into this room today, what did he look like, what did he sound like, what was some of the things you know from your study of the man . Well i think he was considered very handsome man, very well dressed, extremely well spoken. Beginning in the late 18 fifties, because he started his career in augusta as a new space editor, by the political bug, by the late 18 fifties, was very much immersed in emerging Republican Party. He had lots of experience in the late 1815 late 18 sixties speaking in maine. That really gave him a lot of practice towards being able to articulate his ideas as he emerged as a national figure. Charismatic, magnetism was another word a touch of him at that period. Right. I know my understanding is that he had a terrific memory for peoples names so that he was the kind of politician that could really make you feel that he knew who you were, what your particular concerns were and so on and that made him a very powerful figure. Theres a story told, for example, when he is in the 1880 for a campaign. He is on a train and he recognizes a man who he had met as a wounded soldier in a Military Hospital in washington 20 years before. So that was the kind of memory he had for faces. What a gift for a politician, right . Yes. To be able to memorize names and we call them. So he really was able to capitalize that. He was a great politician. A master. Not just in that but also in his mastery of political tactics. Master of political tactics, mastery of controlling his party and leading his party, i would say. And there is a sense that when he was in congress during those years that he wrote about, which were critical years for the nation, he did have a way of trying to smooth over some of the terrific differences between sections and as congress was coming back together to include the south. Some of the references i read about were curio, hypochondriac, prone to depression, lots of depression. Can you verify having read these sorts of things to . Very much so. He was constantly complaining of ill health all throughout his wife and of course ultimately died at 62 in 1893. In the last few months of his life, he was truly ill. He was also relentlessly ambitious and i know that i read some. There was nobody who yearned or hungered for the presidency more and james lane. Throughout his career though, the charges of corruption from his days promoting the railroad, lobbying in Congress Stuck with him. We have another one of the political cartoons. The tattooed james g. Blaine, which refers to on the tattooed man, many of the charges against him. Will you tell us more about that episode and why was so significant. Yes, this comes from top and this is from the election in 1884. It is actually a tremendously powerful image in that election in that it is recognized as many of the factors that helped defeat blane. Essentially, the lane is shown as a romans senator in the roman senate and his toga is being lifted from his body and underneath our tattoo, his various political sons. And the senators are looking aghast at his political misdeeds being revealed. In the midst of that crowd, his running mate john logan, general logan, and also a Young Teddy Roosevelt as well. Now the mulligan letters were his defense. Was it a successful defense really record whether or not in fact he was corrupt . Well i think actually the mulligan letters were the accusation as opposed to being his defense and he tried very hard to make them seem as if he had no value. I read something about him slamming down on the desk and daring people to read the letters. Once he had stolen them from whoever had them in the first place, he went to the hotel and said, let me see the letters and he took them with him and, you know, disappeared with them and never returned them. He tried to use them but i dont think there is any clarity that he was not guilty. I think it is pretty clear that he was. Somebody called him jay ghouls handyman or jay ghouls busboy or something to that effect that he was so tight with the Railroad Industry that it was unlikely that he was and they continue to dog him. I mean in the 1884 campaign, someone publish what was believed to be a version of the mulligan letters and a pamphlet. And he never quite resolved that in his career. Right. We are going to involve some of our viewers in our discussion of james g. Blaine, 18 eighties america. First caller is from roger who was watching us in atlanta. Roger, you are on the air. Hi, how are you today . Great, thank you. I just finished reading the recent biography and for two people who were really powerful in the Republican Party, they seemed from the same place, they seemed really distant. Is that true or was that just a feature of the biography . No, i think you are correct. You are mentioning Thomas Greene who was born in portland in 1839 or so its just a little bit younger than blane. Went to vote in college and spent his entire public life as a congressman. He rose to be speaker, like blaine was also speaker. Im 1869 to 75. Reed served in the late 1880s and into the 1890s. I think that the corruption was never a question in relation to reed. Reed was a totally honest and forthright individual, a person of great integrity. In addition to that, reed is escribed as a towering figure in the history of the development of the congress. Considered by many to be one of the most influential speakers of the house in the history of the house. Primarily because his rules, his reform of the house. The recognition that the majority rule had to be counted and had to be taken into account. Our next caller is jim watching us in San Francisco. Hi, jim. Hi. I think you are right on the major issues here. It seems to me that the country was going through a major transition from the old money having formalized their ethical values and then their transition in the country with the railroads into two Big Industrial corporations and raising money for corporations. Very different sets of values and so the question is, you know, how could someone that was busy making all of the deals and representing wall street, maintain any kind of reputation in this situation . Certainly, i think one answer to that would be that there was a great recognition of his sheer power and so because he was so powerful and could do so much for the party and for its other goals, people could set aside some people at least could set aside his apparent, very close relationship with the railroads and the industry. Next is a call from sharon watching us in portland, new york. Hi, sharon. Hi, i want to thank cspan for bringing this wonderful series and my question is this, did mr. Blaine and make any money before he won into politics or does he come from a family that had money to begin with . Thank you. Good question. Plane came from a modest background. He was born in pennsylvania. He started out as a teacher and then he married harriet stan would from augusta, maine in 1850. There was actually some question about the validity of the marriage so they were remarried again in 1851 and by 1853, they were getting word from her relatives in augusta that there was a Business Opportunity for him to come back. And so they relocated to augusta in 1854 and from 54 to 58, blaine was the editor of the cannabis journal which is still being published today and he also was involved in an editorial in the portland appetizer, which was a daily paper. There we are seeing todays issue of the journal. It means oldest continuous daily newspaper. Alive and well. It blaine house and looking at his desk for the time period, the newspapers at the time he, was both a newspaper man and very involved with party politics. That was common . That wouldve been very common. I think it was one of the primary where snow politicians got the word out about whatever their policies were. Certainly there was no television. People were very interested in, there was no radio, no internet, newspapers and public speaking for the ways that politicians operated. I think we also have to remember the newspapers were very partisan in those days. Shamelessly so. And shamelessly so. Self admitted. Particular individual group of individuals would start a newspaper not only just to report the daily news of the community but also to promote a particular political view or particular Political Party. So was his interest in the Republican Party how do the newspaper business in the republic interest intersect . Well i think it is very interesting. 1854, the year that he comes to augusta and becomes the editor of the journal is the year in which the national Republican Party is founded. He is involved in that. Other famous neighbors are including watchman junior who become the civil war governor of maine and the newspaper is very much aligned with that and aligns with the party in maine. We are going to take a telephone call from washington, d. C. Marvin is there. Hi, i find it very fascinating. I was wondering, how would america how would our country be different, i should say, if mr. Blaine had become president . And then also in terms of why we do not feel that in our history books, can you elaborate further on that . Great, thank you for watching. How would the country be different if he was elected . I am not sure the country would be terribly different. I think perhaps mckinley becomes a very pro business president in, what 1896 and a republican. And i think if plain plain maybe wouldve brought that earlier, you know, change had he been elected in 1884. When you think . The only thing i would add to that is that some scholars have said that plane, because of his personal magnetism, would have perhaps been a great sort of figurehead leader for the country. Wouldve projected a kind of image of confidence, of power that had really been lacking in recent president s in that period. And that he might have been the most important figure perhaps between lincoln and teddy roosevelt. And chicagos up next. Dave, you are on the air. Dave, are you with us . Yes, certainly im. I just wanted to mention there was a comment about plane that thomas nancy said. This was also referred to as 20 years in a make. [laughs] well, there is that. So though Railroad Connection [inaudible] there is a small town West Virginia because he was a friends with davison layton western maryland. Blaine, West Virginia, so he endures a railroad in that way. If i also remember correctly, its one of the things we get to watch when people say in your favor because did he not lose new york and one of his round because he did not read a statement of reverend burchard for . I guess right. Thank you for taking my call. Thank you for watching. We talked about the rum, romanism and rebellion. 20 years old in the making, that is a great title. It was the greatest civil war in post civil war cartoonist. A harpers weekly was his form. Every week he created another fascinating and challenging political cartoon. And he just downright did not like plain and blaine in his cartoons. I think there was another incident in the 1884 campaign where he went out to dinner while he was in new york. Incredibly wealthy bunch of millionaires, maybe all the top millionaires in new york despite the fact that new york, and the country, was in a Great Depression and some struggling greatly and he seem to be completely blind to the inappropriateness of that. That was the very day that he also was witness to reverend burchard speech. In the morning he did reverend burchard, in the evening he did del monacos restaurant. That was immediately reported to the press as the feast. Right. The brutal feast or something. Before the president ial bids, 13 years in the house of representatives during the period of reconstruction. Hes got his congressional desk in their. The period of time of reconstruction, where was he on the issues regarding reconstruction . It is interesting. My sense is that he was largely a moderate which would have helped to make him provide some balm to the nation, if they say he was quite successful in taking congress and one of the most difficult times of its history and smoothing a lot of feathers. But he was also an early advocate of black suffrage, which i find quite interesting that would not have been considered a moderate position. I think, myself, my sense is that that was more opportunistic than anything else. That he was among those who believe black suffrage was important not because it was important for blacks but because it was important if blacks to get the vote and what republican vote for him. Talking about his enemies, he had a very wellknown enemy with a very publicized fight at that period. Ross go conquering. Who is ross go . He is a congressman from new york. I cannot speak so vividly about him either i. Know that there was a struggle between the two of them which last two historic flight on the floor for the house of representatives. We do have a clip about it from the senate historian, don. Lets listen. At that period, the two leading republican politicians were Roscoe Conkling, u. S. Senator from new york and james g. Blaine, who was a u. S. Senator from maine. They were both dynamic, they were both articulate, they were magnetic, personalities. Just attracted a lot of people to them. They could give a speech to a convention, just knock the convention out of the minds. It was so traffic. I was stumping and any kind of oratory. They were legislative geniuses, they battled out in the congress in 18 seventies. They hated each other with an absolute passion. No to political figures probably have hated each other as much as Roscoe Conkling and james g. Blaine. It was partly because they were about the same age, the same ambition. They knew that one of the others that were going to stand in the way of the other getting to the way at some point. The rivalry started back when they were the house of representatives in the 18 sixties. Roscoe conkling was an enormously proud man. Very handsome. Dressed to the nines. And strutted about in a way that made some of the members uncomfortable were so maybe sort of kept it on the way of this man who never had a particularly good word for anyone. But james g. Blaine, who is a young upcoming politician for maine, was not afraid to take out anyone. In a debate, at one point in 1866, he launched into one of the most savage attacks on another member of congress. You really could not attack another member. It was full of sarcasm and with delusions to the hyperion curl that Roscoe Conkling high into the turkey gobbler strut in which he walked around. It was terrific. First off, it made all of Roscoe Conklings life out of him because was all true. Second, it gave tremendous amount to the editorial cartoonists because from that on they were always making Roscoe Conkling into a turkey or some other figure. Senate historian don richie. What you are looking at on your screen is here in the blaine house in augusta, maine. Blaines study that is actually a she lounge from the capital of the senate. That is preserved here in the house and is very much in use. Its interesting listening to the characterization there. I mean politics is colorful today but turkey gobbler strut, another thing people to say to one other. How did these stories get passed along to us . Well indeed, the press was very lively in those days as we have already said. Even in the galleries of congress . Very much so. Of course the way in which the information was translated to other newspapers around the country was through the telegraph and story would be written and then they would be telegraphed to other papers and then copied, in some cases, from other papers as well. Politics was entertainment. I mean i think there was much about it that was not just about the politics but about the entertainment value that it had and great writing and clever phrasing. There were big sports teams. That is right. Next is helen watching us and kate main, new jersey. Helen, you are on. Hi. This is a wonderful series. Thank you so much. Both of my students are watching so i hope they are paying attention. Will we have teachers here so glad your students are involved. I have a question about the blaine. That he tried to add an amendment to the constitution. Was there an anticlass catholic motivation or was there some other motivation that went along with this . More than 20 states have blaine amendments even though its not successful on the national level. It will be close to 40. Its 37. 37 . Wow. Blaine had an amendment that he proposed that would prevent schools from using federal fund religious institutions using federal funding if im not mistaken. This its still in place today. The separation of church and state. Do you know if it ever had a Supreme Court challenge . Has it made its way in the courts in the states and we have discussed the separation of church and state so often in this country . I dont know that it has. Why do we not know about blaine amendments then . That is an interesting question. Maybe because there are attempts, not at the Supreme Court side, but from individuals who are constantly trying to challenge that separation, i would imagine. What motivated him in putting forward . I think that it was 1875. I think he may well have already had his eye on that 1876 election. It may have been opportunistically picking an issue and i am not beyond thinking that there was enough catholic appointed to it as well since those were the institutions. The Catholic Schools that it wouldve been most likely to try not to pay taxes or use federal funding. What was blaines religion . He was a congregation a list. Did he have a catholic parent . Yes, his mother. No he attended the self Parish Church here in augusta. In fact, there are beautiful tiffany memorial windows to he and other members of his family in that church. We have a viewer from d. C. Calling us next on the air. Good evening, susan. Hello . Yes. Hi, we can hear you. Thank you for hosting these series. I have been watching cspan for many years and all the programs have been so great. I just want to say thank you first. So my question goes to the chinese exclusive act. At that time, i believe that most new england republicans were against the chinese exclusion act because they tend to be more liberal. We are not on board with that but blaine somehow supported it with the southern democrat. I am wondering why was he not so liberal in terms of civil rights at that time compared to the other new england republicans . I would like to learn about it. Thank you. Well i think again its similar to elizabeths recent answer on another issue and that is that this is a man who always had his eye on the presidency. In order to win the presidency, you needed to do it from the nationwide perspective and i think he recognize particularly in the west and especially in california that chinese immigration was a major issue and he wanted those votes. So what i am taking away from this is that this is a man, you said he wanted that presidency desperately. It was not ideologically driven so much as had his fingertips at the political wind . I think that is certainly one way to interpret his political career. And i think when i think about the pro black suffrage policy and think at the same time about the chinese exclusion act policy, i find it hard to bring those two together. If he was racially progressive, then why would he not be racially progressive on the other side . So that is an indication i think of as sort of opportunistic approach a very ambitious. Whatever will wouldnt be the election. Morristown, new jersey. Ed, welcome to the conversation. Good evening. Blaine so obsessed with the presidency . Does he consider himself a failure . Thank you. Thank you. That is an interesting question. I do not think we get that sense. I think what happened he went through the process three times. 1876, 1880, 1884. He was also, you know, it was kind of dangled in front of him in 1880 80 and again in 1892 even then he was a very ill man but i think he fell for the end of his life that it is really great accomplishment was that second term of secretary of state between 1889 and 92. There he was able to play out a lot of his ideas not only on the National Scene but on the interNational Scene as well. And so, you know, i do not think he viewed his career as a failure. You are watching cspans contender series. A special series for this fall. We are going to take a very short break and tell you more about the series. We the contenders and our look at the life of james g. Blaine continues live in a moment. The continuous features profiles of key figures who have run for president and last but changed political history nevertheless. For more information on our series, the contenders, go to our website at cspan. Org. There you will find a schedule of the series. Biography is of all the candidates. Historians appraisals and portions of their speeches one available. That is all at sea spawn. Org slash the contenders. We now return to maine in our discussion on the life of james g. Blaine one. It you are looking at a live picture of the james g. Blaine house in augusta maine. The state capital. It is now the official residence of maines governor has been since 1920. We are live tonight inside the Governors Mansion. Guest of the governor and his family to learn more about this house is longtime owner, james g. Blaine, unsuccessful president ial. Threetime won the nomination in 1884. Failed to win the presidency and yet made a mark on his country that we are learning more about tonight. Our two guests joining us earl shettleworth, its main state historian and the director of maines Historic Preservation. Elizabeth leonard, History Department chair at colby college. We are taking your telephone calls. Youre welcome to join the conversation. We are having Great Questions tonight. Two zero three four watching the mountain and pacific time zones and we welcome your involvement in this. Tell me about a little bit more about maine and this time period. We talked about it earlier about him coming here as a young man. How difficult would it have been for you to establish himself . Well i think that he had a very good connection with his wifes family. This down woods were a prominent family here in augusta. Actually that connection for him to become the editor of the Kennebec Journal was essentially made by family and friends who wanted his wife back here and also wanted to make that opportunity available to him as well. He came out a really perfect time in the 18 fifties, a decade just before the civil war. Maine is really a zenith of prosperity and there was a recession in the 18 fifties but generally speaking maine is really questioning in both its economic and its Political Force at that time. Last week we were at the home of henry clay. Where their connections between james g. Blaine and henry clay . There were in the sense that he had grown up in a house where clay was absolutely idolized and clay was an ideal for him as well. When he was a young man, he spent some time in kentucky actually and working as a teacher and he made the point of seeing clay whenever he could when he was in kentucky. He was a very devout fan of play. On one account at the age of 17, he attended one of clays major speeches in 1847 and took copious notes on it. Our next caller in our discussion of james g. Blaine is from indianapolis. This is edward. A low, edward. Hi, how are you . Great. Thanks. Your question . What was the role of blaine undersecretary of state under Benjamin Harrison . Okay, if you do that briefly because we are going to spend a little bit more time of this. He served under three president s are secretary of state, is that correct . Our field, arthur and then harrison. The harrison was a long period. I mean garfield was just within less than a years time about nine months. But with harrison, he was really in a wonderful position because he really had reached his career. He was viewed as powerful if not more powerful than the president himself. And he had this free reign of developing ideas he had been working on for years in terms of international relations. His particular interest during the 1889 to 1990 1892 period with central and south america. He developed including the idea for the Panafrican Union and so on. That is right. We do talking with that later on. Let me ask you about in the study here there are a few memorabilia pieces connected with abraham lincoln. What would his obviously he was a supporter of abraham lincoln, but did he know him . I dont know if he knew him personally. Yes, of course he went to congress. He was elected to congress in 1862. And so he wouldve served in washington, from 1863, lincoln of course was assassinated on april 14th, 1865. Theres a very poignant remark of his connection with lincoln, here at the house. And that is that theres a loop hard, literally seven days before he was assassinated it, when they went to lincoln to get permission to visit richmond virginia, which had just follow the capital can fit confederacy. Now we know from other instances that he wouldve had opportunities to meet and talk with lincoln. We also know that he was so touch an admirer of lincoln, that when he built the initial house, in 1872 for the study, he wanted to use the very same wallpaper in his study, that lincoln had used in his cabin. And were showing that wallpaper to people, as we speak, on the screen. And that was reported that you saw. So i believe this is a replica . Thats right. And theres a commission slip to travel to richmond that had been necessary at the time. What a real main, glad to have the main person involved in the discussion, alexander, youre on the air. Yes, i was wondering what kind of other attacks can were used against the attack that claimed about his life . Thank you. As far as i know that was his primary. A personal attack against. Him but there would have been political attacks against him as a democrat, and a representative of the party, that had fomented rebellion. How scandalous would it have been in this time period to have a child out of wedlock . Oh i think it wouldve been quite scandalous. I would think so too. Yes. And, just answer that question a little more there were some bold issues to the campaign of 1884, and one of the strong issues that the republicans and democrats deferred on in the post civil war period, was the tariff, we know. How much can you tax goods coming and going . And the tariff was a major factor. And i believe currency was also. Yes, oh very much so. And had been since the civil war. Because of course, the civil war had proliferated the Paper Currency so the whole issue of bringing back currency was very much in the 18 seventies and eighties. And their nineties. Exactly, so it gave way for to the free silver. Houston is up next, our caller is james, hello jeans. Hello. James youre on the air go ahead. So you said, you mentioned the civil war government, and the first republican government was actually migrate great grandfather, and i wonder what his connection was. Additionally, i think the refund wisconsin might have clashed with new york in the presidency, some of the pulling of the lines that came back to haunt, and i thank. Thanks for your contribution. So hannah hamilton and his relations . Had it will handle was born in 18 nine, on paris hail, in oxford county. He was a highly skilled lawyer, who had served as a governor of maine, briefly. And then became a senator, and then in 1860, he chose to be lincolns running mate as Vice President. And served as Vice President of the United States, from 1861 to 65. And then after the war, he goes back into political life again, as a senator. So he wouldve been very much a part of blanes world in the Republican Party in maine. How double hamilton was a powerful figure in that period. And he wouldve interacted constantly with plain,. And he was someone that sued against chinese exclusion, he was a republican who sued against blamed on the chinese exclusion. Id like to have you, since were in a period of time we can hear people bring up the question of maybe its time for any party, that the two party system is failing us. This was a period where we saw the evolution of Political Parties from the wakes to the republicans, which can we take a minute or so to explain the demise of the wings and the rise of republicanism . I think the demise of the wakes is very Much Associated with the person you were talking about in your program, last week, with henry clay. When henry clay died, that was he was so closely linked to the white party that the party really collapsed. But it wasnt just about henry clay, it was about this labor issue, and the anti immigration and a number of other issues that led to the development of this political chaos. Which gave way to the Republican Party, but also the split in the Democratic Party over the course of the 18 fifties. We love to introduce you to books, and our guest this has just seen today, her fifth book. My new book. And take a minute, tell us about what youre talking about here. Joseph gould was lincolns judge general, he was a very important figure in lincolns administration. He was a chief of military justice after lincoln was assassinated he was a prosecutor of the liken assassins. And anybody who has seen the film of the conspirator, anybody who seen that film the conspirator has seen a representation of joseph hoped, which is more than i can say. Before that film came out, nobody knew what he, was enough some people now. Well congratulations. It will be available. It is funny, because its not the top of the, hour its a couple of minutes early here but the clocks are ringing and you will hear a couple of them at this top hour, here. As we get into the second half of our program. Let me take another telephone carl, from michael. I think your show is wonderful, i appreciate the historical commentary as well as the interviewers commentary. My question is, can we put the personal commentary lane experience on time as prepared to todays Political Landscape . What do you mean . Just give me a little more of what you would like. I think plane represented something that is pretty dominant in the american populate today, which is not being representative. And i think blane was a very inspiring to hear about, actually, im just curious of maybe some personal input from all three of you. That landscape of then versus today. Okay, thanks so much. Well i have to say, im not quite sure what hes looking for. I guess, if youre asking whether i think hes a politician, perhaps, who would be recognizable today . I guess maybe i would say, i would think that he might be kind of recognizable in his ability to know the political system, too many polite the political system, and to be a real career part politician. Hes a certain type. Could he have competed in todays a person with his characteristics could he have been successful in todays political world . With the charges of corruption . Well. What would be different about that . Right. Good question. I think, he had a lot of personal skills that probably would be standing in a good stand today. Clearly, to be an effective leader, you need to have a charismatic personality. You need to be able to get your message across well. And these are things that he could do very successfully. And also, he really understood the behind the scenes working, of the political scene, really from the 18 fifties right into the 1890s. We talked about the media being so supportive of parties at that time, as someone who had a persistent charge against him, where there are investigations by the media at the time . Oh certainly. They were looking into. It sure. But i think you can, so today, we investigate peoples corruption all the time, and they still proceed with their careers. Phoenix up next, this is josh. Yes, hi, good evening great show. I was asking if you could comment on mr. Planes foreign policies and the secretary of state, what were his opinions, specifically interested in south and central america. He was born in cuba, and during the end of the 20th century, you know, with the cuban revolution, just starting, i was wondering if mr. Blane ever went to countries outside of the United States and what his opinions were on colonialism, like spain, or other countries, and if he did anything, or had any feelings about those types of things . Its a great show, and ill hang up and listen, thank you. Thank you. On your question is so timely because its time for us to spend some time learning about his years as secretary of state. We said earlier that he served three president s, and some historians suggest that we look at blanes legacy. Its really in the area of international affairs. So can you speak to this influence and then answer his question about whether or not he left the country . Sure, maybe i will take the first one first of that is okay . Sure. I do not believe that he went to centralist or self america. But europe. Europe, yes. He traveled several times to europe in the period between the time that he ran for president and the time that he became secretary of state in the mid 18 eighties. He spent quite a bit of time in new europe. Some of the time was actually with a very close friend of his, andrew carnage in scotland. In terms of his significance of secretary of state, the development of policies as we mentioned before they were really primarily focused on central and south america. This was a very progressive thing to be doing in American Foreign policy. Those areas had largely been ignored since the days of the Monroe Doctrine. He was very concerned that britain was having an unusually Strong Influence on some of the countries, particularly argentina that many of the countries are fighting among each other and he felt that in order to have a strong and safe america, you are also needing to have a strong and safe neighbors to the south. Right. Before you answer, we have one of the other political cartoons. It is titled the old scout. What is it about . This is a pro blaine campaign peace. Its from the judge and it shows blaine as an old western on a horse with an old tattered hat. Look at all the peoples of the world looking at him. Yes, exactly. This is blaine, the secretary of state. This case from 1890 and he is actually leading the people of central and south america into a new world. He is giving them leadership and in many ways this is reflecting his plan in creating what became the pan american union. The opportunity for people to meet diplomatically in both hemispheres. Where would youve got these ideas from . I think it goes back to the Monroe Doctrine. I think he was very much trying to revitalize the older image of hemispheric unity and also hemispheric defenses. Something that i find interesting is the notion that the Monroe Doctrine extended as far west as hawaii. He had his eyes on hawaii even though he was talking about, we also had an imperialistic string to him, wouldnt you say . Well certainly the hawaii episode, this was of course at the very end of his life and he does not even live long enough to see hawaii annex but he sets it in place by sending his old friend, jon stephens from augusta, who was involved with him in the Kennebec Journal way back in the 18 fifties. He sends him a special dim a diplomatic emissary to hawaii to basically from the revolution. One of the quotes from the story and i wrote down that blaine envisioned a influential america based on its increasing wealth. So you mentioned that he had an americancentric view. Yes, very much he wouldve been very supportive of the notion of consolidation of capital in the growth of american wealth. Now the interesting thing, we had a caller much earlier on ask about thomas read and there was a very strong difference there between blane and his world view and thomas reid who resigned after the house after the spanish war because he was so concerned about the imperialistic direction that he perceived america going in. Very different views of america of the direction. He was serving under president Benjamin Harrison . Yes. How strong the present was he . I think he was generally perceived as a fairly weak person and that blaine was actually a shuttle president. This is certainly reflected in a lot of the popular literature and cartoons again. I actually read that a as he was secretary of state for garfield that he was also, the author was defending garfield as being powerful in that relationship but he was defending it against a long tradition of people saying it was really blaine who was running the show as well. Wisconsin, rapids, wisconsin. This is david. Hi, david. You are on. Yes, i wanted to know with the republican, did he have any influence or was there any fingerprints that he put on wisconsins Political Party that would become progressive during that time period up until the, you know, 19 hundreds, 19 tenth . 1930s, there is a lot of policy that we still live by. Workers comp and workers rights. Did he have anything or do any influence at all in wisconsin . Not that im aware of. I think were talking there about the next generation of politics. Were talking about the teddy roosevelt, in the progressive area, from the early 1900s. And indeed, the reforms that youre talking about that wisconsin sub noted for, and reforms that were also extended to other states as well, our post1900 usually. Yes, and i would think that he wouldve been very pro capitalist. If were talking about workers rights, and so on, he was a demonic with the millionaires, he was not meeting with the labour. s anger main, this is bruce, youre on bruce. Yes, high. Can you give us about the house that urine, what requires that, and also mr. Blanes death in washington d. C. , and what they did 20 years later back in augusta . Im gonna ask you not to talk about the death now, because were gonna show something. But about this, house please. He has, well i think i mentioned it earlier, the house was built about a retired sea captain, captain james hall, in 1833. The state house right across the street, had just been finished in 1832. So for all as for blane this was a really strategic location for a home. The house was acquired by blane and his wife in 1862, he died in 1893, her in 1903. And then the house was inherited by the surviving children. Then, in the 19 teens, the house went to planes grandson, and walker blane was tragically lost in the last month of world war i, in 1918, and friends. And so, the house went back to harriet blane, again, and she in turn, gave it to the state of maine, in 1919, as her Governors Mansion. It was restored and remodelled, so it could be used as to home of maines governors. And governor misled page are the 21st family to live here, since the 1920s. Let me introduce you to another gentlemen that we would like to bring into the discussion. Let me show you as we start up here, a biography written, neil is joining us, continental liars from the state of maine, a Campaign Slogan used against lane, of course. He is joining us from inside the blane house, Governors Mansion. Mr. , how did you get interested in james plane and how did you write a biography about it . Well, basically, ive been involved in this house since 1966. I was an assistant to the governor kurt is, so i knew all about the blane house. And then later on another governor, king, asked me to be the cochair of a Group Called Friends of the blane house, so i was spending a lot of time here. And i know it is, there was a little bit about playing here, but there really wasnt very much. And there was no uptodate biography of them. The previous biographies were about 70 years old, and two of them written in the 19 thirties, early thirties. So i thought it was high time that this fascinating character, who came within a whisper of being president of the United States, he should have an autobiography so thats how i got involved. Now, you said fascinating, what are some of the other adjectives descriptive used to describe james lane . Im sorry, would you repeat that . What are some other words he would use besides fascinating to describe him . Well, the one that they used a lot was magnetic, and they called him the magnetic man, because he had a magnetic personality. And apparently when he would walk into a room, kiwi just fill that room and everybody would turn around. So he was sort of a natural in that regard. I know youve been listening to our conversation, do you have a favorite james story that we have been told tonight . Oh boy i didnt hear everything that you said. Im gonna start by talking about the first time he was secretary of state, and i dont know how much youve gone into his relationship with garfield. Tell us a little bit about it. Well garfield was like a protegee of his, in fact, he helped him get through a real tough patch down in congress, when garfield was accused of corruption and end up taking some stop that, he should not have taken. He got it on with that, they were just very close friends, that in 1881, lane was running for the second time, and he kept from getting a nomination. But again, he didnt have enough force to get the nomination through. So, he turned it over he, turned his folks over to garfield, and thats how garfield, who was a very dark horse, when the convention started, he happen to end up with a republican nominee. And it started a quid pro quo, which was that the number one job in the cabinet was to be secretary of state. And so, it was sort of understood between them that he would become secretary of state. Lets take another telephone car, we have less than 20 minutes left in our 90 minutes on james blane, from ohio, this is chris. Hi chris. Hi, im curious about blames relation with stephen and charles thunder, both radical republicans, before, during, and after the civil war. The relation might be interesting for someone who chaired the senate committee. Thanks very much. Is that something intake . I can talk about stevens, because blame name for himself when he first was elected to congress by taking on the gowdy stevens, who everybody was afraid of. And contradicting him. And i dont know exactly what his relationship with sun oil was, but plane was not a radical republican. He was a moderate, in that regard, he still wanted to build the Republican Party in the south. And thats why he was so strongly for suffrage to free the slaves, and for that part of reconstruction. But he was not for tremendous punishment for the south, and some of the radicals. Our callers are here for our three guests, as we talk about the life and times of james plane. Unsuccessful nominee for president election in 1884, in cleveland he was a successful candidate, but we believe that he had outside influence on American History, were learning more about that tonight. From california, youre on the air. Yes, high. Hello eric. Hello, how are you . Continuing on about james planes personality i was wondering, he certainly a larger than life character, do you see him embodied in any current politician . Thank you. [laughs] let me ask neil briefly, and then i will ask our two guests. Giving them a little time to think about it. No, i dont think so. He was considered a very congenial person, and of course he came from the way as we see here in maine, and he came up here as a young man, and immediately was accepted by the people here. Because he was so good with people. So he was sort of a combination of various people that we have now, but i dont see anyone that has his intellectual death, he was a very bright guy, he was very well read. I was reading about his going to parties in washington and being described as being surrounded by all the women bear, because he was reading them poetry. It gets us all the time, right elizabeth . Have either of you thought of comparisons to today . I thought of bill, clinton actually. Although i dont see certainly in some ways i dont see the great personal style, larger than life, a very culminating. My understanding of bill clinton is that when he walked in a room, he just sort of Takes Center Stage without even trying. And a great origin. Two and very bright. Hes really a very intellectual figure. The other person that i thought of was lyndon johnson, in terms of being a party man, and knowing everybody, and knowing how to gather people together to do what he wanted. And how to work the system. And how to work the system, and a little corruption here in. There yeah. We are live inside the Governors Mansion, about 15 more minutes on james plane, shawn from virginia, youre on. Hello good evening. I was wondering was terror residents in washington d. C. On the duke on circle . And it was there any connection between mr. Blane roy and the Southern Railroad . Well take it in here, neal thank. What is . That will take it in this room,. Neil residents in washington d. C. . Yes. In 1881, one blamed the cain secretary of state, he decided to build a large yoke today mansion on coupon circle. And that house is Still Standing today. And it was a house that they only kept for a few years, and then it was in the post 1884 election, he and his wife traveled a lot, it was at that same time, after getting up to washington residents, that they build another big gilded age victorian summer cottage, here in maine. Then, when he became secretary of state, for the last time, he actually acquired secretary of state williams towards house, near the white house, near the square. And thats to house he light did, in 1883. And he had sold upon circle house . Yes. What i mean, he was there for a very short time, he had one of his daughters who is married there. His wife hated the plays. Its absolutely mammoth, and its Still Standing on massachusetts avenue. 2000 massachusetts avenue, if youre in the washington d. C. , interested in james plane and would like to see that period of his history. Just about 12 minutes left, in pits field, this is stanley, hi stanley. Hello. Yes id like to know have there been any books that either elizabeth, or earl, might recommend for reading in regards to mr. Blane . I would suggest a book that youre holding right there. And if you want to know about the time period where the state in addition to this . Similar books you can recommend . First i would agree, neals book is the most recent, the most up to date, the most comprehensive understanding a plane. You have to go back to the 1930s to find two biographies of him, previous to that. As to the history, actually neill also is an offer to turn their. Hes done a couple of wonderful ever views of history of the state of maine. Mr. Getting a lot of valentines in this round. What a good he patta. Now were talking about houses, in your book, the kind of liar from the state of maine, you describe the scene where chains de blane learns that he is successful in obtaining the republican nomination in 1884, and he goes through the front door of this house to greet his supporters. Well you tell us about that time . Well actually, when the news first came, the people were gathered down on water street, which is they are by the river, around the post offices in his biggest crony the post master down there, they were putting up signs, of what blane was doing and how he was doing it. Finally, they put up that he had gotten in nomination, also the blindsided telephone and they were probably one of the first in the nation to have a telephone. So the phone rang, and his daughter maggie picked it up in learned at he won, and she ran out in the front lawn word lane was lying in the hammock. And she told him youve one father youve won. And thats how he learned to news, and everybody marched up the hill from water street, to come up to greet their hero. And a huge crowd gathered and it started to rain, and one of, you heard a voice yell out from the crowd, weve been waiting 11 years for this rain to come. And so they were all getting soaked. He gave a speech, and that everybody started pouring in from all over the country. And they had a train come from california, finally tonight, our tribute to some of the victims of the coronavirus which has to california delegates for chicago pandemic. Convention, of texas was 74 years all they are, and old. Her daughter people started coming from rachel described all over the state of her as a devoted in maine, and all nurturing over the matriarch who lit up a room making people laugh and feel United States. Safe at the same and then time. We were told she thrived on the accomplishments of her children and eventually they called him blacked at logan, grandchildren. He came a few days here charlene was with plain. I want to also 74. She thank you for adding love nothing more to our rich than to sit in the front knowledge of more to watch you janes 3 granddaughters at their plane, and one more down for sidles. Her daughter an only child, thing about your jessica, says her book, as the program is running out pretty quickly. Mom was her best it is available wherever you buy books, it was part of a program, as we learn more about this very color for and very influential man from the 19th century, known not only across United States but around the world. Douglas from north carolina, watching affair, youre on the air. Yes, hi how are you . I just want to ask you what planes relationship with joshua james was, the civil war governor after the civil war. He was a republican, what was their connection relationship . Well, of course, i should mention that served four terms right after the civil war. And he was a very independent individual, and he was not comfortable with planes politics, there is ample evidence that they do not get along well they were not close compatriots in the party. And in fact, chamberlain did not go further in politics after the governorship, he rather became president bolton, and he was in portland. We have a caller that mentioned the town it was named for blane, with it a little bit of research, and there might be more about it we found a number of cities and towns, counties rather than towns, are rounding out his states name to pour james plane. Mostly in the time period after his death, it seemed to be, you can talk a little more about honoring people, especially janes plane, through naming the communities that were growing up around the country . Well when i heard that, when i learned about that is that i thought about that several were out west, and i thought about his whole push for the western vote in the 1879, 1880, hoping to vote through that three chinese exclusion. And then i found maybe he did win some favors out west, because i dont know if theres any connection, but it was interesting that this republican figure from maine, wellknown in the United States, nevertheless out west there with some support. Washington state, idaho, San Francisco up next, jim. Hello jim. Hi, most of planes history was during reconstruction, he was a moderate republican, what can you tell us a little bit to what degree he negotiated or support it the reassertion of power by the whites . Well, im sure that he wouldve said that he used to it firmly against the reassures since of powers by southern whites. But he was a mother it, and he was in line with those who believed that the nation should move forward, and that deradicalize where rainy holding it back. And of course, the radicals were in favor of punishing the white southerners and the rebels as best they could. And i dont think it wouldve been in any way a good politics for him to stood up for white southerners, but i dont think that he was really strongly going to take the position that they should be punished. In that regard, elizabeth, can i ask you what the incident with his sponsoring the bill that would exclude citizenship . Right. In 1876 when he was throwing his hat in the ring for the presidency his fiancee at a bill that said that all of the remaining confederates, former confederates who were, who have not yet given been giving amnesty, should be giving some except jefferson davis, which was interesting. And how did that result . Will it provoked a great fight in congress. People felt, some people thought it was great because they believed that he should in fact, this idea that he was still accountable, was really great. Others thought that plane was doing what they call waving the bloody shirt again, and here the nation was moving away from the, warren reconciliation seem to be moving forward, and why was he provoking this kind of dispute again . We have about five minutes left, independence iowa, this is joe, hi joe. Hi. Unlike Joshua Chamberlain you mentioned his grandson, blane had no military record in the civil war. But his running mate, general logan, had one. And he was the first president to have a grand army of the republic, the Republic Organization throughout this day, and logan gave us memorial day, and dick really declaration they. Can you speak to the fight that of the checking and balance system, did it have any part in the effect that blair [interpreter] plane had not served . I think theres no question about what that is a political balance on the ticket. Logan was very well known, the veterans vote was a very powerful force in the postal period in america. Elaine because he was very much involved in the emerging political career, when the civil war broke out, he was a speaker of the house here in maine. The main house of representatives, and he was about to run for congress, so he did what many men did at the time and he actually bought a substitute, it cost about 300 dollars, to have someone else going you instead. Cleveland actually had done the same thing, so it was a very interesting situation that prior to the 1884 campaign, you always hug someone in office of the presidency print and haze, and garfield, who had been civil war officers. But the lane and cleveland were not. So whichever one of them had one. It wouldve been a break in that generation, yes. We have a viewer who asked about his death, so you can now tell us the story of his death. Yes, well, as it has been mentioned he was a man who was prone to illness, throughout his life, i think both real and imagined. There was always mention that he might have been hypochondriac then reality, but by the same token, by 1892, he was exhausted. Both physically, and mentally. And in fact, the campaign of 1892 was looming, there was some talk of his being nominated for president , but he really was not up to it. And keep out dowd, he gave only one speech during the campaign about the reelection of harrison, and then in 19 1893 he died in his home, in washington. Where is he buried . Buried here in augusta. Originally buried in washington, with his wife. And then in the state of maine, they brought mr. And mrs. Planes remains back. And they reside in a beautiful blade memorial about the cemetery here, in acosta. How long that is why flip after him . Until 1903. She lived another ten years. We have very little time, but we have a local collar, augusta, maine, this is jonathan. Yes, just a question that might be answered by earl. What was the relationship of mr. Blane towards the native population of the state, the native American Population . Because we know there were natives in the civil war, they have their own regiments and whatnot down in the south,. I thank you jonathan, im gonna jump in because their time is really short. Big question, but short time. Yeah, im not sure that i have a quick answer for that. Is that . Right so, any place to go for this . Or material available on the historical. Well definitely look into neills book, to start out with. In the state library, very good reference. To state library. Id like to close, we have just really a minute left, and ask you a question to support our thesis. What was the legacy, what is the importance to America Today of james blane having been a politician here . I think its his influence as secretary of state, which was very important, thats a great legacy. And his desire to build some kind of cohesion between the north and south american states. I think theres that. And i think also if you look back across his long career in public life, it is that he is one of the key builders of the Republican Party, in the 19th century. He is there at the beginning, in 1854. And he is still there, almost 40 years later. As probably their most powerful, and most identifiable figure. Main today has a republican governor into republican senators, congressional here is democrat, right . Congressional democrat, but i was thinking state legislator is all republican. What we are out of time, and i want to thank a number of people as we close here. First of all, governor page, and their family for hosting us, at the Governors Mansion tonight. And, the director of the plain house, hear, and the staff, they have been fabulous to us as we have been sitting here for the past couple of days. We really do take over the place, and theyve been wonderful. The main Historic Preservation commission, thank you for your help and research. And also, to our wonderful cable if philly here, the cable of augusta, for all of their help and support in bringing cspan to this community. Were gonna close our program in just a same way we opened it, were gonna give you a look at the campaign memorabilia, and particularly listening, to a group called the independent silver band, as they sing and 1884 blamed logan victory song. Thanks for being with us tonight. Weeknights this month on american tv were featuring the contenders, a series that looks at 14 president ial candidates velocity election, but had a lasting effect on u. S. Politics. Wednesday night we feature former secretary of state, William Jennings brian, who was also a threetime president ial candidate. Watch wednesday, beginning at eight eastern, and enjoy American History tv, this week, and every week on cspan 3. I honestly would tell you, i dont think when the dust settles in this election is gonna be whether america becomes more republican or more democrat. Whether were more liberal or more conservative, more red more blue. I think the choice in this election is whether america remains america. And as joe biden has said, from the moment he entered this race, its about the soul of our nation. Who we are, what we stand for, and maybe most importantly, what we want to be. Watch the Vice President ial debate, between Vice President mike pence, and senator kamala harris, live, tonight at 9 pm eastern, from the university of utah, in salt lake city. Watch the debates, live, on cspan, listen live on the cspan radio app. And go to cspan. Org, slash debate, for a live or on the mans dreaming of cspans debate coverage. Theres also a link to each debate question and answer. See social media fees on debates happening, and reactions. And watch archival president ial debate video from the cspan video library. Next on American History tv, a discussion about the complicated and controversial building of the memorial of president garfield, on the u. S. Capital grounds. Were gonna hear from matthew gilmore, who edits to washington d. C. History blog. Those of you into d. C. Has trick immunity, probably know math by name, if not inperson. Among other things, he runs a blog, the matthew