Will ask as many questions as time permits. To submit a question, please ha email headliners press. Org. The two candidates, incumbent President Donald Trump and former Vice President joe biden are spending millions on advertising to spread their message and turn the tide in battleground states. But this election is unusual. The covid19 pandemic is squelching the usual meet and greets and rallies and then theres the Lincoln Project, a Political Action committee founded by several current and former influential republicans including george conway, jennifer horn, mike madrid, and john weaver and our guests here today, rick wilson and steve schmitt. A republican pac doesnt sound that unusual, but unlike traditional republican pacs, theyre spending millions to defeat the republican president ial candidate. Today, the two Lincoln Project founders, rick wilson and steve schmitt, will give us an update on the state of the 2020 race and the Lincoln Projects home stretch strategy. Rick got his start as a political strategist in the 1988 president ial campaign of george h. W. Bush and has since provided counsel to National Campaign committees and Corporate Association and government clients. He is also the editor at large for the daily beast and a frequent analysis on cnn and msnbc and is the author of the 2018 number one New York Times bestselling book everything trump touches dies. Steve is a Communications Strategist and political analyst for msnbc and nbc news. He served as a political strategist for governor george w. Bush and senator john mccain. He called himself a republican until june 2018 when he renounced the Republican Party as fully the party of trump. Welcome to the National Press club, gentlemen. Its good to be with you. Im so glad, so glad to have you. And since we were talking a little earlier before we started and steve was talking about intuitio intuition, i want to know, when did you have the intuition or when did you realize that you needed to create the Lincoln Project . We want to know who called who, you know, who sent the first email, who sent the first meme . Whats the background . Well, we were all talking to each other going back to 2018 and we almost kicked off an effort late in the 2018 cycle but just didnt think we had the time to do it competently. And so we kept talking and we decided to launch it in december of 19 and we were really alarmed watching the democratic debates because there was a name that was very infrequently heard and that name was trump. And trumps no valdmort. Hes the first issue in the race, the second issue in the race and the next 155 after that. We have a point of view that what this race is about is the worst president in the history of the country. Now, that was before covid. And so now what we know is that Donald Trumps lie to the country which hes told on at least 120 different occasions which is that the virus was a hoax, it was created by the democrats, it would just go away, it is without question the most lethal lie in American History. If we have the same mortality rates in the United States that germany did, there would be 150,000 more americans alive today. The consequence of that lie has devastated the economy. Its broken a million dreams. Shattered the American Dream for millions of Small Businesses. Its disrupted the education for every kid in this country and it has wrecked the american way of life. Grandparen grandparents cant see their grandkids being born, christens and btailgates, promise, its al gone and its because of donald trump. On top of it, by the time we get to the end of covid, it maybe that it kills one out of every 1,500 black people in this country. Its a Staggering Number that speaks to the profound inequities that exist in our society from access to medical care to economic inequality and trump is the biggest problem that the country faces and the most easy one to fix. What was true about the 2016 election was this, was that whomever that election was about was the person who was losing the election. For 99 of the election it was about trump until james comey made it about Hillary Clinton in the last week and by 78,000 votes across three states, trump one. Our point of view has always been its about trump. Let me ask you, steve and rick, why didnt you guys do Something Back in 2016 . Im just curious about that. Because if hes a problem we all did. We all tried different approaches in 2016 and unfortunately there were two big problems. First off, trump had a divided field of 15 republican candidates, all of whom he devoured and the second part of 2016 was, this was running against Hillary Clinton who has this almost demonic role in the Republican Party psyche. There were a lot of republicans who we tried to reach who said things like, well, i vote with you guys or vote against trump, but its hilary. I cant not vote against hilary. This level of all of these Republican Voters became very marked and increasingly problematic in 16, all of us tried different approaches with either candidates or superpacs in 2016 and it was just a moment where the parties moral collapse was happening and it took us, you know, even all of us who are pretty experienced, weve been around the block a few times to recognize the degree to which the moral and political collapse of the party was occurring right before our eyes. And these were people who had once said that they believed in the constitution and the rule of law, that they believed in individual liberty and all of the predicates of america and what happened was that turned to be a complete illusion and they eagerly jumped into this personality cult of donald trump. I would just add two things to that that i said over the 16 election. I was annu analyst on msnbc on network, but i said two things in 16. First thing i said was that was the observation that in the 1930s, fascism didnt rise because it was strong, but rather because democracy was weak and the second thing i said is that i thought that there was a real lack of imagination within the American Mind about the capacity for someone like donald trump sitting behind the resolute desk in the oval office to cause a profound tragedy. And i think both of those things hold true. Now, both rick and i were tough on trump for the duration of the 16 race. And whats different between today and then is you would have a lot of republican senators and governors who werent saying it themselves but were calling and saying keep it up, that a boy, good job, right, thats important, couldnt agree more, and one by one by one what we watched for two years is the total capitulation to trump. On a fouryear basis, i think its important to understand what occurred. And you can understand that through the Republican Convention. What you saw at the Republican Convention was the third Oldest Political Party in the world, the democrats are the first and the British Labor party the second the British Tory Party the second. What you saw there was the Party Platform become a statement of obedience and loyalty to trump. To be a republican in Good Standing requires faithfulness to a cultive personality. What did you see at that convention . You saw at that convention breathtaking lying that youve never seen at any convention. You saw utter lawlessness, the use of taxpayer dollars and public property for his political purposes, you saw the seizure of important symbols of the republic by trump who turned them into partisan totems and expressions of his authority in essence declaring i am the truth, i am the law, i am the state. Okay, steve let me and that now we see with trump saying, hey, maybe well have a peaceful transition of power, maybe we wont. Without much pushback from formerly people who called themselves mostly conservatives. Lets talk about that. Because obviously theres something going on in the senate right now and what is it that you guys think is happening with some of the traditional republicans who have not spoken up, who have not spoken out against President Trump . I can summarize it in one word, cowardace. Theyre afraid of trumps base and fox news and it defines their whole character now. Whether its marco rubio or ted redu cruz or mike lee, these days the one thing they care about is avoiding Donald Trumps ire. They sold themselves cheaply to him. They cannot be trusted or believed ever again. The response to a president saying, im agnostic about whether im going to have a peaceful transition of power and the response to the president who turns unanimous federal forces on peaceful protestors is not a bible verse being tweeted out or a statement or saying, i havent seen his tweet. The response if they were men and women of integrity and honor, they would be furious. They would be defending our country, our freedoms, they would be standing up against abuse of executive power and theyre not. Theyre too afraid, theyre too sold out to do that. Are we going to see a new justice put in place . Is that going to happen . Do you guys think thats going to happen . We may well. Probably. You know, but look, its i ran two Supreme Court confirmations when i was in the Bush Administration for roberts and alito and i was asked to be supportive in the Obama Administration of soothers. The defeat or the refusal to give a dually appointed a hearing, garland, renders this appointment illegitimate. We look at this moment right now, this is the precisely what James Madison who about in federalist 10 when he talks about the danger of parties and factions, right, and majorititarianism. The question is, republicans can say, we lied, were in charge now, you can say that, you can say, listen, we made a mistake. We now realize, like, how important these nominees are so we got to put the conservative on. I guess you could say that. What you cant say, right, is that its in the public good. And thats what federalist 10 is about, the public good. The public good is endangered by faction, right, that assails and assaults minority rights. Right . And the democrats represent, right, a majority of the country by popular vote in a president ial election and a majority of the country by popular vote reputatiresentatio the senate. This is a moment when you look at the divisions in the country where if we had moral political leadership, there would be an understanding that this is a moment for restraint. Thats what wisdom would dictate. Were not going to see that. Now, as a tactical matter, right, derailing a Supreme Court nomination, stopping it is not unlike robbing a train. If you want to go into the train robbery business, right, the first thing you got to figure out before you can get to the safe on the train is how to stop the train, how to slow it down, how do get on the train. And thats what democrats have to be thinking about right now. How should slow it down by an hour, slow it down. Okay. Choochoo. How should the democrats be perceiving the Lincoln Project . Is the Lincoln Project allies are you guys allies of convenes right now or are there tips that you have for the Democratic Party that they should be taking from you . Were part of a Broad Coalition that is views donald trump as a threat to this country. And we do not have to agree on every single political prior. We dont have to agree on every policy question. We would love to be back fighting again if the marginal tax rate is going to be. Were here because we have a collective set of skill that is have made us effective in moving voters in this country and i wrote a book about it, the democrats fall into simple traps and they often fall into simple mistakes in campaigns and, you know, weve kept this race as a referendum on donald trump. Its a yes no choice. Its not an argument about climate change, guns or abortion, its an argument about donald trump. Hes the worst president in American History. Its a choice, do you want four more years of that or do you want to make a change and do Something Else . Were happy to work with and alongside people. When we started this process, there were people that were behind us, to the side of us, ahead of us, we were ahead for a long time. But now were working and the most interesting thing isnt just the democratic groups that are tuning up and getting tighter in their messaging and more sharp in their advertising. Its the emergence of a number of republican centrist groups that are coming into this race and pushing the same sort of objections to trump from the right and the center that we feel like weve played. I just want to add i just want to add a couple points to that. Is that we view ourselves as a prodemocracy organization. Historically, my view has been that the republican and democratic parties are two of the most institutions in World History for the advancement of Human Dignity and freedom which is why i have always hated when republicans call the Democratic Party the Democrat Party because it implies a level of disrespect for one of our greatest american institutions and the party should be called by its name. And the Democratic Party is the only Political Party that is for the ideals and american democracy. Trumpism is an authoritarianish ideology. Its hostility to the first amendment, the elections process and all of it and we are an organization now that has several million followers, that has close to half a million donors, that has raised substantial resources to fight back against trumpism. And so when i say trumpism, we mean that as a rooted ideology, something that wasnt four years ago but has become so. And when republicans lose and i think that biden will win. And i think that the democrats will take the senate majority, today, at least, but if republicans do lose, what will happen to the party can be understood by what happened to the california party. As Political Parties shrink, theyre like white stars collapsing astronomically. They become smaller, they become denser, and they become hotter. And so the Republican Party as it shrinks is becoming more extreme. So one of the things that is always misanalyzed, if thats a word, in the press is trump as 96 support in the Republican Party. True. However, that party is substantially smaller than it was a year ago, two years ago, three years ago. What will happen if trump loses, hes not going away, trumpism isnt going away, youll see a more extreme ideology, youll see more qanon candidates. In that space for a long time, were on the side of the Liberty Party in the country. And second to that, and 30 more seconds, it seems to us as a matter of principle that we need to have a new Voting Rights act in this country, a new Civil Rights Act in this country, we need to have an Election Security in foreign interference act, we need fundamental ethics reform, we need fundamental Civil Service reform, we need to see Immigration Reform finally passed. We will be an organization that supports Vice President biden in all in any of these things. As an American Organization who understands that we are in an hour of crisis and decline and danger in this country because of trump and the cowardice of the Republican Party. Is it time for a third party in the United States . You know, we say this a lot, were not in the Party Building business right now, were in the democracy business. We think largely that this country needs viable Political Parties. And if you have the broad argument that the democrats are a progressive Political Party or liberal Political Party, the idea of having a center right party that believes in the things that the Republican Party claims it represented is very appealing. We dont know what the end of this election cycle looks like. But we know, were going to be stuck with trumpism for a white. There will be a battle between racially charged politics and a party about economic liberty and individual freedom. What that looks like, i dont know. I dont think steve knows. I dont think any of us know because donald trump has really fundamentally poisoned the brand of the Republican Party. They may emerge as a party that looks like something we havent seen in our politics before, and even though people who used to say, the bushes have been around for too long, the kennedys have been around for too long, those people all had a certain modesty about their civil about their Public Service. They had a certain degree to which they acted as servant leaders. These people act as pair sites on the american body of politics and were going to see the Republican Party in 2024 look at donald trump jr. As the lead candidate for their nomination and i think thats a terrifying prospect if youre a free market conservative, individual liberty conservative. Is there time for a third party . Cant say yet. But i think the Republican Party has taken a poison pill will donald trump we dont have a center right party in the country anymore. We still do have a center to center left party. If that collapsed, right, and so we have this authoritarianist, nationalist party on the right, that ill come back to something in a second. And you have a collapse of a center left party on the left and its a socialist party versus that, then i dont know what happens, right. There could be an independent candidate that could win, certainly. But, look, that Republican Coalition now, fully 25 to 27 of this country is deeply meshed in a cultive personality. Theyll never accept the legitima legitimacy of an election. If you look at louisville, right, what im watching on tv is, im watching armed white people with assault weapons, Tactical Gear on, walking unencumbered around louisville. A lot of them with trump hats on. Somebody needs to explain to me and i say this with no hyperbole. Somebody needs to explain to me the difference between that am i looking at the early days of trumps essay. Whats the difference . Kentucky state laws allow them to do that. I hear you. Let me just say, the governor has discretion, right, to protect law and order and public good to say, no. Not today. Its not a protest march. Its an incendiary situation and weve seen it all over the country, right . The storming of the Michigan State capital. Im just saying, maybe it is lawful, but its dangerous. Lets talk and we should talk about it. Lets talk about the senate races. Weve gotten quite a few questions in about people are curious what races youre concentrating on, which states are going to flip. Who are you concentrating on in the senate races. We love the Lincoln Project loves dr. Al in alaska. Wee feel good about dr. Al. Rick, why dont you talk a little bit about dr. Al. Youre muted. Youve got a candidate in al gross who is quintessentially alaska. Hes both a commercial fisherman and an orthopaedicic surgeon. Heist a guy who in a moment of being attacked by a bear, killed a bear. Its a big, bold character and he represents the sort of like a central independent character of that state. Dan sullivan is a standard issue cookie cutter republican. You can line him up with ten other republicans and u. S. Senators and you could swap them out like legos. Al is a big, bold chances. We like his chances a lot. Were working in montana to help governor Steve Bullock take the senate seat. Another guy that could have been punched out of a factory to look the same as every other. Weve been active in maine with sue collins who has broken her oath, continually deceived the people on maine again and again. The whole im so concerned, im so worried, i got a furrowed brow and she votes for trump every time. Were active in go ahead. I was going to say. What about Lindsay Graham . What about rand paul . Where are you going there . Well, were not active in randoms race because thats not one of the viable races. But Lindsay Graham and im sure steve will speak more to lindsay, we have hit Lindsay Graham very hard. We helped bring Jamie Harrison up to even. Were in our second Million Dollar investment in South Carolina. And its one of the great things about Jamie Harrison, hes more conservative than Lindsey Graham on big issues. Lindsay graham for 30 years of his career was a budget hawk and suddenly donald trump is in office and hes spending money like a drunken socialist sailor. Theres nothing he wont do to back up whatever trump wants to do. When you see Jamie Harrison who is more conservative than Lindsay Graham on trade, many Foreign Policy issues, grahams were optimistic about Jamie Harrison. Its one that deserves a lot of attention because Lindsay Graham is a person of the lowest moral character in the senate. Ill let steve talk. Mike espy in mississippi is tied with cindy hydesmith. A year ago you told me there will be a tie race for u. S. Senate in mississippi, i would have told you you were out of your mind. But the landscape is shifting very quickly. North carolina, we feel is pretty much gone for the republicans, arizona and colorado is in terrible shape for the republicans. I would say one more thing real quick about the alaska race is, alaska is an overwhelming pro choice state. So the Supreme Court confirmation i think is it may be that trump gets the justice on the court, but its going to be devastating politically in november for a couple of reasons. But in that alaska race, its going to hurt sullivan and then theres another issue up there which is something called the pebble mine. And the pebble mine has been a hugely controversial gold mine that will poison the head waters of bristol bay and the largest, richest salmon fishery in the world. Dr. Al is against it. Sullivan is for the mine. The state is against it and were going to kill sullivan on that issue. Coming soon and, you know, we look at the Lindsay Graham race, were just going to go for it. We think that, you know, he is the most undeserving senator in the country. His character is loathsome. Hes a principlist man, selfinterested, hypocritical in the idea that Lindsay Graham has anyones back is ludicrous. I would like to Say Something about a message that youll see from all see from us in the senate races, you know, in part which is the indictment which is this. I think this is an important is an important thing. We try to always be proportional when we say the worst of or hes this or that or the biggest. Were very cognizant when we say these things that everybody tends to, oh, it was the greatest party, its the best of times worst of times because its proximate to our presence in those events and everything is selfreferentle. But the magnitude of trumps lies are so great, every one of these senators, every one of them knew how deadly this was. They also knew every one of them that trump knew how deadly this was. Youre referring to the pandemic . Im talking about the pandemic. Not one of them, not one went to the floor of the senate and gave a speech and said, mr. President , stop this insanity. Not one of them went into the oval office and banged a hand on the resolute desk and said stop this. But now, every one of them is running for reelection under the premise of vote for me, im an independent voice who will have your back, theres a phraseology from the colorful coloek wc sayings from new jersey that is go yourself. Ask on the part of these incumbents. Were going to go for it in the South Carolina race. We like what were seeing in this race. And i think in the espy race, confederate battle flag came down this year, Stewart Stevens who works with us is a mississippi native. But, you know, mississippi, you know, i dont they have a nut center who embarrasses the state, makes them a joke. And mississippi wants to kind of step forward away from being the punch line, right, the way that alabama did with judge roy moore. Espy is the candidate and hes right there. Were going to play hard in that race and go at her. Vice President Biden has signaled that he would not interfere with new yorks Southern District prosecuting donald trump post presidency should he win. What do you think the impact on the country and the government would be if this were to happen . As long as the work of the Southern District is not influenced by some external political motivation, it should not matter. No one, including a former president , should be above the law. No one should be protected by the Justice Department from prosecution if they have committed actionable crimes. And but the flip side of this is that were right now in a country where donald trump wants the Justice Department to defend him and attack his enemies. He has said repeatedly that somebody should be investigated, soandso should be taken out, lock her up, those sort of things. Those things are to a institution constitutional government. I dont want the heavy hand of politics weighing on either side of the any prosecution in this country. Talk to us about the only thing worse than one Political Party, you know, thats embraced the lock them up philosophy is the is two Political Parties that embrace it. And so, you know, i agree with everything rick said about accountability under the law, but, you know, part of our conservativism is were rooted in pragmatism and its any considered prosecution of trump, i hope the people that are considering it in those positions approach it from a frame of wisdom and restraint, with a vision of we have to move beyond this. And its going to take a long time to move beyond it and we dont want to exacerbate it. And we got a big problem in this country, and the big problem is, that we have 30 of the country thats completely checked out of reality, that surrendered to a cultive personality, that is manipulated, politicized and increasingly extreme and is a liberal, faithless to a core concept about its a government of the people by the people for the people, not a government for the advancement of the leader. So talk to me theyve lost contact with our democratic values. Talk to us a little bit about the role that the Justice Department and bill barr is playing in the leadup to the election right now in your view. Well, hes like americas first interior minister. Its a horrifying prospect that you have the attorney general of the United States declaring manipulateties, anarchist territories, anarchistcontrolled cities, in order to engage in a political stunt to assist the Trump Campaign to turn out their base. Its horrifying that you have the attorney general of the United States seeking to defend the president to use the resources of the federal government to defend the president in a Sexual Assault case from before his time in office. It is horrifying that you have bill barr going out there and aattempting to quash the publication of books that have gone through the security review process because they havent they contain information thats not classified but embarrassing to the president and reflective of his low character. The list of the things that bill barr has engaged in in terms of trying to put out the durham report, to smear the investigation into Donald Trumps connections to the russians, and a host of other things including distorting and lying about the contents of the Mueller Report and blocking the release of grand jury testimony relative to congress about it, theres a full spectrum in which well look back at donald trump as the worst president in American History. Well look back on bill barr as a reckless and lawless individual who was determined to break the role of the Justice Department as a fairly independent part of the executive branch and turn it into the trump familys legal arm. Im sorry, lisa. Its all good, steve. Go ahead. We need to recognize that youre in a pot and the water is getting hotter. For us not to be the proverbial frogs. It means something when mitt romney calls out the work of a Senate Chairman ron johnson who is using his committee for political purposes, partisan purposes, which is inappropriate, but specifically the partisan purpose to attack the candidacy of the democratic nominee using russian disinformation, which is what it is. What happens when you start using the instruments of the state in pursuit of your policy objectives to punish your opponents . The point about ukraine which i thought was profoundly underemphasized in the coverage with regard to trumps shakedown is this, if the president or his administration can try to instigate a criminal investigation based on bullshit against the former Vice President of the United States, they can do that to anybody. And so were out of line where its only inches now to cross into the territory where you will see, right, if theres a second trump term the use of these institutions overtly not in defense of but for the purposes of punishment for his political opponents. And youre going to see that. You gave us the Justice Department, the tax authorities and others to do just that. Right. So you gave us a look into your crystal ball, you basically said that you think joe biden is going to win. That theyre going to flip the congress. How much of a im getting lots of questions in. How big of a margin do you think biden would need to win in order you already said that trump is not going to accept the win, but how big of a margin does he need, i guess, for there to be Public Acceptance of the win . And where does the Electoral College come in there as well. The Electoral College is the only thing that matters. Its you know what, joe biden could win by 40 million popular votes and if donald trump wins the Electoral College, were going to be in the fight forever. Hell never if its close in the Electoral College, it will never go away. It has to be a divisive victory. I cant be separated by 20 or 30 votes. It needs to be significant or trump is going to try to do what he does what is significant . What is significant, rick . Thats what people i could see joe biden somewhere in the 240 range. Its a big jump. But we need to have a divisive victory to break the back of trumpism. You have to make it so big that they cant cheat. All right. What florida is really important here. Florida is huge. Absolutely. Whats your war chest looking like now leading up to the end of the election . Were going to be somewhere around by the end of this cycle, somewhere around 60 to 65 million, maybe north of that if we continue on our pace and were going to be ready to deploy very significant resources into the states in the closing weeks. We know Michael Steel joined the Lincoln Project just recently. Are there any additional folks who any names that have joined that we dont know about, who are lending huge support, republicans that wont mind being named . I was just its not like getting into harvard or anything, right . [ laughter ] easiest frat on campus. Okay. All right. I have two more questions for you before i get to that, before i ask my final question, i want to send a shoutout to all of the folks who helped organized todays panel. You guys have been really, really great. The headliners coteam leaders, Headliners Team member and National PressClub Governor who organized todays event and Club Executive director bill mccarron. My Fun Questions to end this, first, if 2020 was a horror movie, what movie would it be . Steve . The movie that always terrified me the most is just because and the figure reminds me of trump was chucky. I feel like im trapped in the house and theres this Little Orange guy running around all the time with the knife trying to get you. Okay. Rick . For me, its the shining. All work and no play makes trump a dull boy. Ive got time for one more question. I cant get over the chucky vision in my head right now, steve. Thanks for that. Thats really special. Right. You asked the question. I sure did. Okay. Another question is, you know, you guys said that youre like a coalition of many and frankly i have to say, steve, when you were talking, you sounded like youve been talking to nancy pelosi and Chuck Schumer because you, like, basically spit out a number of the topics that they claim to be very, very concerned about. I guess what im saying is, how much in common do you have with the Democratic Party and moving down the line, you know, what recommendations do you have for the party itself . Look, i i believe this i believe this with all of my heart. We have much more in common than we do in disagreement as americans. The national motto, out of many, one, we have to reconnect to this idea. You think about the nations greatest president and you consider that 600,000 people were killed in a war that was fought in a nation where there were 25 million in the north and there were 9 million in the south, 5 million white, 4 million slave, and he talked at the end of the war about charity for all and malice towards none, to care for the widow and the orphan and to bind up the wounds of the nation. And you look at whats going on in louisville, a moral president would be with the governor or the state on the ground, with mcconnell, with black church leaders, with leaders of the black Community Calling for calm, not rooting for the flames to start. And so we need a leadership in this country thats like devoted now pragmatically to fixing problems. Look, i was always of the wing of the Republican Party, right, that i was a republican because i worry democrats would bankrupt the country. But i dont know what any of that means anymore a month where republicans are spending 3 trillion. Theres no limited government, you know, party in this country and, you know, thats why we need some sort of center right some sort of center right movement. But, look, were this pandemic is one of the great crisis in the history of this country. We have to get through this and we have to rebuild our economy and we have to we have to look now, all of us at the 20year mark of the 21st century. How is it going . The country is in decline. And we have a decayed and rotten Political Class and we have some real issues of inequality that so different than what Teddy Roosevelt was dealing with 120, 115, 110 years ago. When you look at Companies Like facebook and others, we have a right as a people to decide how big, how powerful, how injurious these Companies Get to be. And theres going to be a lot of issues we have to discuss. You look at the beginning of the era of artificial intelligence, the dislocation thats coming from technology, we have enormous issues in this country. And we cant stay on this path. This has been a tragic four years. So, if it sounds like i have things in common with nancy pelosi, maybe its nothing more than a recognition of both reality and problems and the understanding that we have to get back to the ability to sit until a room across from each other and do business with each other. And we ought to be able to think about this country in longer than twoweek increments. Ill just say one last thing in conclusion, i was reading this axios last week, and it was trying to interpret who was up and who was down on the covid negotiations between the senate, the house leadership, and the white house. And it was wellwritten. But the exmrication of it was like something from the Beautiful Mind movie. Trying to explain and the House Democrats did this and shafted the Senate Republicans who did this and youre like stop it stop it its what the country is screaming for. So, yeah. We have a couple Million People and a half a million donors who put real money sbinto this and want to be a force for good, about moving stuff forward in this country again. And weve got oget out of this disaster. Go ric. I want to add one thing to what steve said just now. He made excellent points across the board. The furs tirst two years of then administration are not going to be marked to the green new deal. Theyre going to manage the covid. Its not going to immediately change the lights arent going to flick on the morning he sits behind the resolute desk and be all better. Hes going to be have two years of very, very maybe more of very hard work ahead of him. The response to covid has to be economic. It has to be humanitarian. It has to be scientific. And those things are going to eat up the vast majority and in some ways, a president who is tested by a giant crisis can been one of the greats, okay . The president who is tested by something so overwhelming can become a great president. Donald trump was tested by this and failed. He will be remembered he will be humiliated by history. He will be the worst of all our president s for as long as this country survives. But joe biden has a moment. But its going to require more than ideology. Its going to require dedication and competence and a belief that the people of this country deserve leadership thats honest, thats evenhanded, thats committed to the fundamental predicates and principles of this country and is willing to do the hard work. Im going to predict youre not going to seeing joe biden out on the golf course three times a week. Im going to predict youre not going to see joe biden out there picking fights with reporters every day, that hes going to have to strap down and get the work done. Its radical competence that will mark the way the future looks if its going to be a successful biden presidency. I realize that i have not asked the question that i should have asked at the beginning. What about kanye west . What about on yea west . Im not saying hes a gold digger, but the amount of resources that the Trump Campaign clearly put into trying to get ckanye on the ballot in these states and botched it in these states is cynical and horrible and hilarious in equal mixture. You know, last night i was going through some of my emails, and i was looking at the pool report from when the president came in. And something that he said, he was asked what his message is after the Breonna Taylor ruling. And steve, since youve gone back to louisville a couple of times, i just want to mention this. President trump said, quote, well, my message is that i love the black community, and ive done more for the black community than any other president. And i say with the possible exception of Abraham Lincoln, and i made opportunity zones and with criminal us j tis reform and Prison Reform and what weve done for historically black colleges and diversities, nobody has done more. Abraham lincoln, lets give him a nod, he added. But beyond that, nobodys done more. I love the black community. So, in the midst of the pandemic and everything that were looking at and you know, i think about something my mom told me. You know, back in the day, many blacks used to vote republican. So, whats your message to black americans to, a, support donald trump, and to black americans who might be confused about where theyre going and whats going to happen after the election . Well, look, i think, you know, with regard to trumps comments, theres an old saying that i remember my dad teaching me. You cant fix stupid and you cant fix crazy. And hes both. And i think that he is overtly stoking racial animus in this country, the likes of which weve not seen since George Wallace was on the scene. We saw and what i would say to anyone, and i would never dane to speak for the black community. But i would say this. So, there was a couple that appeared at the Republican National convention named the mccloskeys. And who are the mccloccloskeys . Well, the mccloskeys lived next door to the synagogue. And the children of the synagogue put together honey beehives to grow honey for rash shanna. Apparently the hives were slightly over the property line. What did mr. Mccloskey do . Did he call the synagogue . Did he say, hey, this bothers me . Its over my property line. No, he went back there with an ax and destroyed the hives. When peacefully black protesters came by his house, they came out and pointed recklessly firearms that they had no idea how to handle, they were given a prime time speaking address at the Republican National committee where they talked about how black and brown people would soon be invading america. Later that evening, matt gaetz incited people, this distaupic culture war. And then the next day a 17yearold in illinois took his ar15, went to kenosha, wisconsin, and shot three people. That kid who sat in the front row of the trump rally was radicalized by trumpism. He was radicalized by the voices of info wars, facebook, fox news and the mccloskeys and all of it. And when he says theres good people on both sides of the debate, he has been inemichly hostile to civil rights. What i would say to any young black man is to understand the case from when i was a young man e at age 18 of the central park five. What trump is for is not in anybodys interest in the country. And he obviously has a lot of animus in his heart based on his actions. Im not a psychiatrist. Im not a psychologist and any of these things. But what i would say to anybody is this about joe biden. And as conversations going on, rick and i talk about this a lot. And im not immune to it either. The strength of the Biden Campaign is being underreported by the media, and the frailty of the Trump Campaign is being underreported because no one wants to be wrong two elections in a row, right . With 16. And i get it. Human natures human nature on this. But if i can just tell like a quick story, at the beginning of the civil war, William Tecumseh sherman wrote a letter to a friend talking about that the country was doomed, that Abraham Lincoln was a backwoods barbarian who was undereducated and had no capacity to deal with the issues of this union. And it was just it was just denote. And he sent that letter to a friend of his who was down and out on his luck, selling firewood on a corner in ohio in his hometown. That friends name was u lis ses grant. They last saw lincoln together at the head waters of the river at the unions encompment shortly before the war ended. Think talked about his vision of reconciliation. When sherman was asked to reflect on lincolns life after his assassination, he said that he had met all the great men of the world. He had met the industrialists, the kings, the emperors, the generalists, but never any man that possessed the qualities of greatness and kindness in his art than Abraham Lincoln. Whats always been true of the country is its produced leaders providentially at the right moment. Dwight eisenhower. Rosa parks was just a lady who wanted to go home who was too tired to get up from her seat. A Young Baptist minister in atlanta who became a global force for justice. Ordinary people. Right. So, when you look at joe biden and you look at his story, we look at the Lincoln Project. We have expectations of greatness from joe biden. Okay. Because the joe biden that we see getting ready to step on this debate stage is the man three times he ran for president. Hes been in Public Service since he was 29, but hes reached the hour of his destiny. The choice that joe biden specifically presents in this race is the choice between a good man and a bad man, an honest man and dishonest man, a recognized global statesman and an international laughing stock. We have someone who has the potential through his empathy, through his goodness, through his decency, through his love of country and his inability to see people he disagrees with as the enemy, we have the potential to put that man into power, which we think is a prerequisite so the country doesnt slide into an abyss. Okay. I cant tell you how much ive enjoyed this conversation. Rick, im sorry you didnt get a word in edgewise. So, next time the two of you will need to actually come to the National Press club so that we can actually give you the National Press club mug in person. Thank you so much for joining us. And until the next time, thank you for great conversation. Thank you so much for having us. Weeknights this month, were featuring American History tv programs as a preview of whats available every weekend on cspan3. Tonight, a look at world war ii. 75 years ago on september 2nd, 1945, government and military officials from the empire of japan signed surrender documents in a ceremony aboard the uss missouri, formally bringing the hostilities of world war ii to a close. The 75th World War Ii Committee marked the commemoration aboard the u. S. S missouri docked in honolulu, hawaii. Watch tonight beginning at 8 00 eastern. Enjoy American History tv this week and every weekend on cspan3. The first president ial debate between President Donald Trump and former Vice President joe biden is tonight at 9 00 eastern from cleveland. Watch live on cspan. Biden is recklessly campaigning against this vaccine. Hes campaigning its really reckless. And all it is is for political reasons. Its political reasons. Biden, his whole deal is catastrophic shutdown. And again, in his own words, recorded by bob woodward, the president knew back in february that this was an extremely dangerous communicable disease. Think about it. How many people across the iron range . How many empty chairs around those dinner tables because of his negligence and selfishness. Watch the first president ial debate live from cleveland tonight on cspan. Stream live or on demand at cspan. Org debates or listen live on the cspan radio app. A house Small Business subcommittee held a hearing on the Paycheck Protection Program, also known as ppp. Experiences applying for ppp loan forgiveness and explained how it could be confusing. We are meeting today to conduct an important hearing on the Small Business operations Paycheck Protection Program or pp perks and specifically a review of the loan forgiveness process. I want to thank each of the witnesses for their teson