Transcripts For CSPAN3 1960 Presidential Debates 20240712

Future president ial the television and Radio Station from the United States are proud to provide facilities for discussion of issues in the current Political Campaign by the two major candidates for the president. The candidates need no introduction. Richard im nixon and the democratic candidate senator john f. Kennedy. According to rule said by the candidate, each man should make an Opening Statement of eight minutes duration. A closing statement of freeman adjuration. And between, the candidate will answer or comment upon answers to questions hook by a panel of correspondents. In this first discussion of four, join to pyramids is the subject matter has been restricted to internal or domestic american matters. For the first Opening Statement by senator john f. Kennedy. In the election of 1860, Abraham Lincoln said the question whether this nation could exist free. In the election in 1960 with the world around us, the question is whether the world will exist. Half labour have three . Will we move in the direction of freedom . In the direction of the road we are taking. Whether the over direction of slavery. I think it will depend in great measure up on what we do in the United States. The kind of society that we build, on the kindest rain that we maintain. We discuss tonight domestic issues. I would not want that to be any implication to be given, this is not involved directly mr. Cushy ours in new york. He maintains the communist defenses throughout the world, because of the productive power of the soviet union itself. The Chinese Communist have always had a large population. They are important and dangerous now because of the amounting efforts in their own country. The kind of country we have here, the kind of society we have. The kind of shanked we build in the United States. Will be the defensive freedom. Senator kennedy. I think that senator kennedy has said many of us can agree with. There is no question that we cannot discuss our internal affairs in the United States. Without recognizing that they have a tremendous bearing on our international position. What does happen to you . We find that your wage has gone up five times as much in the eyes and hard administration as it did in the Truman Administration. What about the prices you pay . We find that the prices you pay as much as a Truman Administration youve paid went up five times as much in the Truman Administration as the Eisenhower Administration. What is the result of this . This means that the average Family Income went up 15 in the eisenhower years and 2 in the truman years. This is not standing still. But good at this record is, may i emphasize it isnt enough. A record is never something to stand on, it is something to build on. And in building on this record, i believe that we have progress, we know the way to progress, and i think first of all, our own records prove that we know the way. Continues. Welcome in our viewers joining us on cspan3 from American History tv as we are joined by Barbara Perry, director of the university of virginias Miller Center. Barbara perry, 60 years from that first debate between president Richard Nixon and senator john kennedy and if there is one thing you hear about the legacy of that debate, it is that those who are watching on tv thought kennedy won, and those listening on the radio thought nixon won. Is that actually true . No, it is a myth but it is longstanding. It is partially true. The moderator was sitting behind the candidates, so he really could not see how they were looking on camera, he was just listening to what they were saying. He said after that, he thought that nixon had won and when he watched the rerun of the debate, he actually thought kennedy had won. The reason that popped up with there had been a survey done by marketing firms of people who had listened on radio. They had said they thought nixon had won it. I asked the viewers, you can watch and listen and then vice versa. If nothing else, just the difference in the voices, the difference in the accents. Most people think kennedy emerged the winner. He just looked pretty bad in pretty nervous. 60 years this weekend since that first nationally televised president ial debate. There were essentially four debates between john f. Kennedy and Richard Nixon, october 7, 1960, the second. October 13, 1960, the third. If final one, october 21 before the election. How do these come together and what were the hurdles supporting them on television . Barbara perry, are you still with us . We might have had a sound issue. As we work on getting Barbara Perry back this morning, that me give the phone numbers to our viewers asking you to join this discussion. 202 7488000 for democrats. 202 7488001 for republicans. Independent, 202 7488002. We are talking about the history, the legacy, the president ial debate that took place in the fall of 1960, debates between john f. Kennedy and Richard Nixon. Will play a little bit from the second debate, candidate asked on their positions on the issue of civil rights. Here is what they said. Mr. Vice president , you have accused senator kennedy of avoiding the civil rights issue in the south and he has accused you of the same. With both north and south listening, will you sum up your intentions . Why do i talk every time i speak about civil rights in the south . It is because i am preaching. It is a problem for all of us. It is a responsibility of leadership. I do it because we have to solve this problem together. I do it at this time particularly because khrushchev, a man who has enslaved millions, man who has slaughtered thousands, we cannot have a situation where he can continue to point a finger at the usa and say we are denying rights to our citizens. Giving aid to those trying to carry out the situation what will he do to provide fair employment . He has been the head of the committee on government contracts and he has not indicated his support of providing fair employment around the country so everyone can get a job regardless of their race, nor has he indicated that he would support title iii, which would give the internally attorney general additional powers to we are back with Barbara Perry. Giving viewers a taste of the debates from 60 years ago. How did these debates come together . What were the hurdles to putting them on television and who sponsored them . The stations, the channels. We had three basic channels at that time, nbc, abc, and cbs. We headed tv that only got two of the main channels. We had a tv that only got to have the main channels, nbc and cbs. Some people might remember that for example Walter Cronkites interview with president kennedy around a labor day was to promote the fact that Walter Cronkites evening show was going from a 15 minute format to a 30 minute format. We were also coming off the 1950s quiz show scandals. We were trying to boost to boost their image among the public. They were trying to they approach the candidates and kennedy jumped on the idea because he knew television was his medium. Once he did, the nixon camp could not really refuse. It was somewhat technological. It is still a fairly new medium, same for television in those days. They managed to pull it off without a hitch. Number one was the the cold war. The first debate was meant to be devoted to domestic policy, kennedy and his Opening Statement jumped right into the cold war, which must have put nixon off a little bit. Kennedy care fashion in the Eisenhower Administration on that. Unemployment was pretty high was up in the six and 7 rage. Both candidates wanted to shy away from it a little bit. Obviously, they wanted to attract the African American vote. That was another issue. Farm prices, medical care. Canada hit strongly on that. I would say nixon. Nixon was a champion debater in college. He went to whittier college. He had gotten into harvard but he did not have the money to travel there. He had gotten a scholarship, but they did not have the money for incidentals. He had a bit of a chip on his shoulder because of that but he was an excellent debater. Kennedy though had gotten better as a public speaker as he went through his career from being elected to congress at the same time nixon was in 1946. By the time he gets to the 1960 debate, he is good too. He had an odd accent people were not used too. His mother always thought he talked to rapidly. I would say nixon had the edge, but kennedy was nipping at his heels and because he looked better in the first debate, he is usually viewed as the winner there. From that point on it was pretty much a draw. Who the moderators are. Who were they in 1960 . The names people would probably recognize would be those who went on to be anchors on their networks. Howard k smith was the first moderator. We also had people like frank mcgee who went on to be a moderator. Those who were asking questions, some of them went on to be encouraged, most famously Walter Cronkite and don chancellor. The others, although i have paid a lot of attention, were still new to me. A lot of them were printed journalists from the time because they wanted to have a mix between broadcast and print and some of them were on Radio Networks that no longer exist, but those four names were household names. A twitter user rights and saying i remember the debates as a young person. Kennedy was inspirational. Accent was not. There was little need to fact check nixon was not. There was little need to fact check trade how times have changed. Can you comment on the role of the moderators . They are impressive, even if one does not think nixon has charisma, in some ways nixon was at his peak in 1960. He was not the nasty assassin nixon. His running mate before the first debate said that nixon had an image from a fighting communists. I thought that he was sort of a balanced personality and he was not the socalled new nixon who recreated himself for the 1968 run. He kind of became the nixon of parody. He became a balanced nixon at that point. In terms of moderators and Fact Checking, people will notice both of these debaters are excellent debaters. They have their facts straight. They keep to the time limit so there is no intervention from the moderators. It goes very smoothly. It is quite nostalgic to think wouldnt it be great if we could have that kind of debate now . Barbara perry are guest now as we look back 60 years to the first nationally televised president ial debate back in 1960, joining us from the Miller Center at the university of virginia. Millercenter. Org is where you can find out about the Miller Center. Phone lines are split up as usual. Democrats, republicans, and independents. We will start with joe in pittsburgh, republican caller . Republican. Do you think nixons big mistake in 1960 besides looking so horrible in the first debate was this stupid 50 states a strategy he had that he promised to visit every state during the campaign . I think it was selfdefeating. My second question was obviously the60 debates were influential. Why were there no more debates between60 and 1976 . Great question. The 50 state strategy i think joe is right it worked against nixon. I believe he was in an old mode. He was thinking of us. Campaigns of old where the more the candidate got out in the 20th century, the better off. More people saw because he had that period three weeks before the debate, he had an infection and had the flu, he ran himself ragged and continue to do that through the rest of the campaign. That backfired against him. Kennedy went to 48 of the 50 states himself but over a longer period of time. The question about why no more debates until we get to 1976. Lyndon johnson was not the most charismatic figure, so he did not want to debate in 1964. Very goldwater and kennedy who were friends from the senate odd about doing a whistle stop debate tour thought about doing a whistle stop debate tour. Then who is running in 1968 but Richard Nixon . He was not going to go back and debate after his experience in 1960. England this morning. Do you think jfk, john f. Kennedy is the best orator . The 1960 election . Possibly one of the best rhetoricians in the presidency, i would say yes to that. He did not start that way. He was not a natural public speaker. He had taken public speaking lessons. I studied the relationship he had with eleanor roosevelt. She wrote to him in the early part of his presidency and said you need to take more voice lessons. As we look back now and contrast him with some more recent candidates, he does seem to be a smooth talker, a fluent speaker, a great rhetorician, a great orator. He had a lot going for him the time he got to 1960 and did to the presidency. I would rank him up there among the top rhetoricians in the presidency. Dislike each other in 1960 . No, they did not. They came into congress at the same time. They both came in in 1947 and that is when they first met at the press club in washington. They were both pale fellows hail fellows well met. A famous anecdote my friend Chris Matthews talks about in his book on nexen and Kennedy Nixon and kennedy, they went up to pennsylvania to do a debate because they were seen as the young up and comers in the democratic and republican parties and then they talked baseball. They hopped on the train into shared a burger on the way back to washington and and shared a burger on the way back to washington. Politics we long for now where people can be friends across the aisle kennedy always said i do not all see my opponents as enemies, i see them as adversaries. Along the same lines, kennedy had a dry run when he debated senator humphrey as they were going for the nomination. Cspan had an opportunity to watch that debate and i was blown away by how two thirds were just agree with i agree with senator humphrey, i agree with i agree with senator kennedy. How did that opportunity help kennedy prepare for the debates against nixon in the general election . That is correct. Short of the president ial candidates debating, we had some of that leading up to the 1960s president ial debate, yes, they had debated. I think that helped but more to the point for kennedy was he loved it to chat and debate informally. His family was famous for doing that at the dinner table. Both of his parents promoted that. Reading this biography called jfk, just out from a random house, and in that biography he talks about kennedys time in the navy and all the men who served with him said he would sit around at night, all the men wanted to play cards and kennedy wanted to talk politics. They made a note to themselves this guy is probably going to end up in politics. Morning. Perry. What do you think about having a debate between the Networks Like cnn and fox news . I think it would be appropriate because there is all this talk about fake news and so on. That would be an interesting experience to watch since we are only having two debates, why dont they throw in the networks and have them debate . Forth . They dont sit there together and talk to each other. . That is an interesting idea. The way these debates came about in addition to the networks wanting to have them was there was a fellow called brett kohn, who is still with us. He lives in a suburb outside of washington. He was a lifelong federal bureaucrat, worked in the federal government and as an undergraduate at the university of maryland, he was a holocaust survivor. He believed the nation would benefit from hearing president ial candidates. He started writing to people in the networks and ask them asking them to have debates. His it may be bruces idea maybe bruces idea of having to newscasters debate, go for it, bruce. 60 years since the first nationally televised president ial debates, showing viewers parts of those debates, including the third debates where the candidates were in separate studios for that third debate. Kennedy was in new york, nixon was in los angeles. Here is part of that third debate, the candidates responding to a question about recent comments about president truman [video clip] it was declared that you owed a public apology for strong charges made by harry truman who bluntly suggested that the do you believe you owe the Vice President and apology daca an apology . Mr. Truman has his way of expressing things. He has been in politics for 50 years. It is not my style. I do not think there is anything i can say to president truman that will coerce him at the age of 70. Maybe misses truman can. Any comments, mr. Vice president . Of course senator kennedy and i have felt trumans desire and i think he can speak with feeling on this subject. We all have tempers. I am sure mr. Kennedy has one but when a man as president of the United States or a former president he has an obligation not to lose his temper in public. One thing i have noted as i have traveled around the country are the tremendous numbers of children who come out to see the president ial candidate. I see Mothers Holding their babies up so they can see a man who may be president of the United States. I know senator kennedy sees them to. It makes you realize that whoever is president is going to be a man that all the children of america will either look up to or down to. Barbara perry what did you take away from that clip . That is one of my favorites. Im so glad you all chose that one. Let me tell you about morden, who was the head of the rnc. He was a kentuckian and he became our senator after. A great statesman. I love this clip because it has three profiles first of harry truman. There is an old story of truman taking from some friends of his wife and at one point he used the word manure. Esses friends besss friends were scandalized by his use of the word manure. Kennedys wit and how he dealt with that, that was typical of him to diverge attention away from what might be a difficult question, but get a gleam in his eye and turn up the grin. He handled it well. For Richard Nixon, it was poignant to me because todays before the second debate, my mother took me and my two brothers to downtown louisville, kentucky to see senator john f. Kennedy campaigning through our town. Until she passed away, she would say i got there early and stood in front of the podium so you could see him. What he is saying is true. It is ironic as we know how his presidency ended and he was not the kind of person people could look up to because of the scandal of the watergate. I guess i should say talking about harry truman and his colorful language, both kennedy and nixon could swear like this so sailors they had been in what two. In world war ii. Listening for . Really important question, isnt it . I would be listening for facts. It is always good to know that those who may be sitting in the oval office are informed. They obviously can have they obviously can have different approaches to the different approaches to the facts and different ideologies and different partisanship and different facts and different policies but it is helpful to ideologies and different understand that they know partisanship and different policies but it is helpful to what is happening and especially since we are understand that they know facing at least three crises what is happening and at this time with covid, racial unrest, and obviously especially since we are and economy that is lagging in part because of covid. It is important to know that they can be fluent in speaking about those facts and informing the nation, that and basic personality types are important. The next president or carrying on with the incumbent. It one of our previous tweets that we showed the viewers brought in Fact Checking. Is there such thing is Fact Checkers in those first debates in 1960 . Im not sure because this was such a new format that they formally had Fact Checkers. But the candidates were if you watch the debates were checking each other in real time. They were checking each other for what they had said on the stump or they were checking each other on their careers and how they had voted in the past. That is what i found so impressive about both of them and the fact they were speaking most of the time seemingly without any notes. Occasionally kennedy would refer to a statement, and he would want to quote from it. But they would look into the camera and to speak and speak fluently and with knowledge and with a great care given to analysis. Do we know how Many Americans rocked those debates live or listened live on the radio . We do. We believe upwards of 70 million. Upwards of 66 million tuned in for the first debate. And that about 80 of americans listen to a least one and about 50 of americans tuned in for all four of them. But again remember, there was not a lot of choice in tv watching at that time and obviously no computers and cell phones and things like that to distract people. There was a bit of a captive audience. And one of the stats one of the stats from cnn, some 80 Million People in 2016 watching debates between Hillary Clinton and donald trump for comparisons sake. Theyre so proportionally a lot less because we did not even have 200 million americans in 1960. So obviously a vast vast proportion of americans tuning in. I would say that once kennedy was elected, the same was true for his first rest conferences which famously went live and were in prime Time Press Conferences which famously went live and were in prime time. As well as informational for the upper hurricane. People say period is bird florida taller, republican. Good morning. Good morning i am really enjoying the segment today. I remember back during that time and i was not able to vote, but at the time i probably would have voted for kennedy. I think a lot of people were enthralled with him and i have in the past voted for president carter. I always try to vote for the man or woman who would be the best, and i just wish we could get back to that respect between our candidates and get back to what you were talking about, and the Fact Checking is so important today. I am enjoying this very much and it brings back a lot of memories for me. Thank you. Thank you, paula. Barbara perry anything you want to add . I want to note that in one debate there was a question about party labels, and both candidates i think related really to what paul paula is saying. That is she chooses the candidate for whom she would vote as who would be the best man or woman for the job. Both of the candidates were saying, dont vote for me because i am democrat or republican but. Yes i do tend to follow the policies in my party but vote for me because im qualified, experienced, ready from day one to be president. Of the United States. A feature of recent president ial debates. After its over the spin room, the attempt by each side to immediately claim their candidate won the debate. What happened immediately after the 1960 debates . Was there anything like that . I cant find it if there were. Or i look specifically for this as we were preparing for today. I think because these were so new, you also have to remember the difference in technology on cameras, for example. It took a lot of time for those big, heavy cameras to warm up so they would have had the cameras in place, get the candidates and their people there. It was not the kind of spin room phenomenon we have now. I could find that at least in private, the candidates were talking to their advisors about the debate. Kennedy was very pleased with his performance in the first debate, and he called up his pollster, lou harris, and said, i think i can take him. In fact he said he thought he could take nixon after that first debate. They talked about it privately. Nixon knew he had not done well in the first debate especially when his mother called him and said, are you ok . Because he didnt look very well. Morning. I was a little girl when those debates were on but i can remember watching with my mother and father, and they told me how important the debate was. Now i believe that the Young Children and young adults do not know much about United States history and it is not being taught, about how important debates are and how important the president ial elections are, and this above all is one of the most important that people should as a family get together and tell them how important this is to get the truth out. The only way some people will know the truth is when you do have a debate and they can have the fact check on tv right away because of that. I just want to say i was so happy that i do have that memory of the 1960 president ial debate. Barbara perry . Good for the caller, and i have that same memory. Of gathering around the tv and some people might remember the scene in back to the future where Michael J Fox goes back to 1955 and he mentions they have two tvs, and the mother in the scene in 1955 says, he must be joking, no one has two tvs. The very fact that people had a tv one by 1960, 80 of households had tvs. It was one tv and the family gathered around. There are marvelous pictures of families and their Young Children sitting in front of the blackandwhite tvs watching these debates. In 1960 about politics, about civics, we have really good teachers and we need to put more emphasis on history and civics, but i think we are doing as good a job as we can. We can always do better but i agree gather the family around together and watch the debates coming up. Not the back to the future reference i thought it would bring up as a president ial scholar, i thought you would say when marti says that Ronald Reagan is the president in the future. And he says the actor . And jane wyman is the first lady. And jack benny is the secretary of defense. laughs thats a great one to. Also remember the seeing where Michael J Fox says to his family that he had gone back to 30 years before and says, that is on john f. Kennedy boulevard, isnt it . And the father says, who the hell is john f. Kennedy . This is 1955. This morning joined by Barbara Perry on cspan and also im cspan3s American History tv, as we welcome back 60 years to those televised debates. Taking your phone calls for both the next 25 minutes this morning. This is joy, alexanders city, alabama, republican. Good morning. Good morning. My question. My husband called me a nerd for watching this on sunday morning before church, but my question is, given the history behind the two candidates, given they both had things in their past. Nixon was angry and kennedy had personal indiscretions, if you will, and all of that. If those two candidates were to run today, how do you think they would fair given social media fare given social media, given that news a splitsecond every time you turn . That kind of thing. How do you think they would fare. Joy thank you for the question. No nerves here or maybe were proudly honored. Barbara perry go. Ed yes how dare choices husband say that to her . I think of us as historians. Wonderful question, because it seems like we have come in some ways fullcircle. That is, if you think about people knowing about kennedys, as joy put it so discreetly, his indiscretions, that would be all over the media. Look what happened to bill clinton because of that. He was impeached, not convicted because of indiscretion. s now we get to the point where we have a president who seems to have many indiscretions in his background, but it didnt matter to people who voted for him, so it seems that in that sense we have come full circle. In nixons case, no one ever said nixon had personal indiscretions involving unfaithfulness to his wife, but yes, his anger, and some corruption issues on how he went about campaigning, he had a scorched earth approach to campaigning. That seems to be the road to the white house approach now and and in terms of corruption watergate almost seems mild from todays standards. Its it seems we would have more information from those candidates in 1960 and we have come full circle in that we are so satiated with all of this information. It no longer seems to matter. This is martin republican. Good morning. Good morning. Can you hear me now . I have a comment that has been bothering me for a while. I think our news has become propagandized too much. I look at one channel if im hearing somebody speak and i turn the channels, i am getting all different answers or rhetoric that is not true. I feel like the news should be less biased and i dont think we would ever how this much propaganda size asian in our news. Barbara . Well its an important question and its when we should all ponder. I would not say we have never had what he calls propaganda. We have times in our press history going back to the founding i am in charlottesville, virginia, and Thomas Jefferson was excoriated by the press on the opposite side of the political aisle four years so we have had Partisan Press in the 20th century. The press became more professional. I would just say to viewers if you are watching cspan, you are getting realtime news that you can judge for yourself. I would always say to students, read newspapers. Now you can get them online so they are much easier to read. Know when you are reading a hard news story versus a feature versus an oped versus an opinion, and get a variety of sources. Then make your own judgments. I think thats always been true. I think its not true more now more than. Never steve on twitter wants you to dive into the relationship between ike and nixon. Ike disliked nixon but he. Was drafted to be a candidate, and he took nixon as Vice President to placate the gop and was stuck with him. For i years de says ike was right. What do you think . I think steve is right. He is right about the history and analyzing about how eisenhower felt about nixon, and was ready to dump him prior to the checkers speech in 1962. 1952. Famously in the debate, one of the newscasters on the panel asked about this very question that is when eisenhower was asked can you give an example of this president nixon helping you with the decision or having any influence on how you operate as president , eyes and sour said well i if you give me about a week i perhaps can come up with one. That was really damming and damaging toward nixon. I think thats the example that the caller is talking. About to detroit, democrat. Next yes fellow in 1964, i i was 24 years old and living in chicago. It was amid the presser face the nation when johnson and goldwater squared off. Here it host Barbara Perry Barbara Perry host Barbara Perry, that was very common in those days. Sunday talk shows, meet the press and face the nation. Kennedy loved being on those programs, and you can watch them on youtube going back to the early and mid50s. He would take every opportunity to sharpen his skills in debate and take questions. I am not familiar with that particular show. I do know that goldwater was not friendly towards johnson, did not want to debate him, and johnson knew he was not as skilled a debater as kennedy had been, and he was always contrasted in and it left off because of the assassination so johnson was not wanting to debate goldwater. Do we know of candidate was looking forward to president ial debates in 1964 . He was. He was friends, or at least friendly with goldwater. People across the aisle did not see each other as moral enemies. Kennedy did not and goldwater did not, and they had some mutual respect. They were both military veterans and they were excited about going out on the stump and going around the country and debating. About 15 minutes left with Barbara Perry from the Miller Center in virginia, looking back 60 years to the president ial debates. Heres a clip from the fourth debate of the candidatesclosing statement. From that final debate in 1960. I said i serve this country 14 years, served in the war. If i lose this election, i will continue in the senate to build a stronger country. Iran because i believe this year, the United States has it great opportunity to move forward, make a determination at home and around the world to establish itself as a vigorous society. My judgment is the Republican Party has stood still in the United States and around the world. We are using about 50 of our steel capacity. We had a recession in 1958 in 1954. We are not moving away in education likely should. We didnt make a judgment in 54. If we stand still here, if we appoint people to ambassadorships in washington who have a status quo outlook, who do not recognize this is a revolutionary time, than the United States does not cash and we fail because freedom fails. In the years to come, it will be written that one of us was elected and he was or was not a great president. What will determine if senator kennedy for i if elected was a great president . It will not be our ambition, because greatness is not written on a campaign poster. It will be determined to the extent that we represent the deepest ideals, the highest feelings and faith of the American People. In other words, the next president , as he leaves america and the free world, can only be as great as the American People are great. I say in conclusion, keep americas faith strong. See that the young people of america have faith in the ideals of freedom and faith in god, which distinguishes us from the atheistic materialists who oppose us. As members of a new political generation, there are new means of communication. Its a pioneer new type of political debate. The character and kurds with which these two men have spoken sets a High Standard for generations to come. Surely, they have set a new precedent. Perhaps they have established a new tradition. This is quincy how. Good night from new york. Those comments his coming days before the 1960 election. Barbara perry on this messages. Kennedy focusing on movement, moving forward, and both of them focusing on freedom because of the cold war and tangling with the communists and particularly the soviets. Kennedy was trying to distinguish himself as what would be the youngest elected president at the age of 43, replacing eisenhower who at the age of 70 was the eldest president we had ever had. He wanted to make that distinction. In nixon, at seems to be an irony that he talks about the greatness of a president and that we know how ultimately his career ended and is ranked among the bottom. Kennedy, if not viewed as the greatest president , george washington, Abraham Lincoln. Kennedy continues in the public consciousness to be right at or near the top of peoples favorite president or president s day most approve up approve of, because he was young and inspirational and the horrific way he died. There is a burning into the american psyche of his persona. If you look at the closing statements, we could be proud of them as americans, and i love the reference nixon makes to the atheistic materialistic communists of the time. Both candidates could agree on that. Time to promote cspans president ial survey cspans president ial historian survey, you can find it on our website at say span. Org cspan. Org. Abraham lincoln in first place, followed by george washington, franklin roosevelt, theodore roosevelt, and dwight eisenhower. All available at cspan. Org or. We hear from bill in northbrook, illinois, independent. Good morning. Thank you for taking my call. My question is this. The format of the debates has remained the same for 60 years. It is i think very unrevealing format and that people have canned answers and canned responses. The Lincoln Douglas debates. Debated slavery in the territories but to me it would be far more revealing to have the two candidates discuss health care, what is the future of health care . What is the Foreign Relations . Without a moderator, to just see what develops. I dont know why we have never really thought about the format of the debates, and i want to hear your comments about what you think about this format. Bill, i like that idea, the idea of taking one topic, particularly Something Like health care. I know they have topics lined up for this upcoming first debate on tuesday and that is one of them. The Supreme Court and the covid epidemic are others, but in that short period of time, they do not get to delve into it and they come up with canned answers. I question whether the lincolndouglas format where each candidate and that was for the senate in illinois could stand up for an hour go on each and debate each other. I dont think we could hold onto an audience in this day and age with an audience with the candidate speaking. The one for change a did happen after 1950. The town hall format change, im not sure we will be doing that this year, but i tend to like those rather than having a panel ask questions. Getting the questions from the American People can be helpful and lets us know about those. Obviously they are carefully screened, but i go back to the 1992 debate where someone asked the question about the economy and George H W Bush didnt seem too relatable or relating to the person who asked the question, and bill clinton approach the person and said i. Came to the person and said, i come from a small state and i know when someone loses a job. That was a turning point. That town hall format is happening this year in the second debate Barbara Perry from the Miller Center at the university of drew virginia, this is terry from oregon, democrat. Thank you so much, ms. Perry, i have really enjoyed this segment. I tweeted in my question and got so carried away with watching the old clips, which i viewed on our tv at the age of about 12 and i found anything on tv at that time you watched and it was just great. My question is, the voters, either this is going to be part of my contribution to the history or i am going to get a History Lesson for you, but didnt we have the womanly go voters, they ran those debates . They put pamphlets out and as a firsttime voter for me, i found that happened that helped. It was taken over by corporations. If im not mistaken. Thank you so much. Yes, terry, really good point. You are right on in the terms of the league of women voters and the debates, they took over the debates as a nonpartisan organization, and they ran them in 1976, 1980, and 1984. As they lead up to 1988, they grew so disheartened trying to deal with the two parties and the two sides and all the demands they were making that they literally stepped out from organizing any further president ial debates, and it has been taken over by not corporations, but the National Debate commission. That has been lead pretty well by the heads of the two parties and i think they have done is get a job as they can in putting these two together. I really liked having the lead have women voters in control. Nonpartisan women league of voters in control, nonpartisan and always looking out for the people. Host caller good morning. Our current president is a businessman. Did nixon or kennedy have a business background, or did they come to the debates as politicians . There is a difference between the thinking of both groups. Neither man had gone into business or worked in business himself, but in nixons case, his father was a small businessman and not very successful. He had run a Grocery Store in Southern California and had not done well in that business. The family was very poor. They had several children and nixon had a couple of brothers that ended up with tuberculosis. They had Health Problems in the family and they had a hard time making ends meet which is why nixon could not take advantage of his admission to harvard. In kennedys case, kennedy came from business. His father was a wall street mogul and hollywood mogul and bought the merchandise market. Kennedy was not interested in going into business himself. Both of these men were veterans of world war ii, nixon and kennedy, and then wanted to serve as public servants. Roads in chicago, i democrat. Good morning. Just because someone says they are a businessman doesnt actually mean they are a businessman. Donald, you know, it everything from his father and we are not sure what donald has done with business. I was going to ask about the league of women voters barbara answered that. Getting back answered that. Getting back to the debates in terms of fox or msnbc or cnn, that is a great idea too. Lastly last week, steve scully compared to Rachel Maddow. So Rachel Maddow is a road scholar so we could add her on the debates. Maybe we can put sean hannity under debates. Maybe we can bring wolf blitzer on for the debate, so the three of them in an hours debate on what the media should or shouldnt be, since what we say about the media all the time, might be a great avenue into talking about what brian lamb used to talk about, american exceptionalism. Maybe we can find out when america was great. That is rose in illinois. Barbara perry. That theme has returned of having the debates among those in the news. I like that as an opportunity to see how people think of things differently. If we could bring back our Miller Center friend jim lehrer, who was an excellent moderator, we lost him in january but he was a member of our board and such a lovely man, i would love to him love for him to moderate the debate between fox and msnbc. It in our last 30 seconds or so, do you think a new president ial campaign can happen anytime in the future without president ial debates . Could there be what happened after that 1960 debate, a gap in televised debates . It is hard to imagine that that would happen because if one candidate said, i am just not going to debate and there was some talk of that that trump did not want to debate because he thought the format and operation of the debates in 2016 or biased. But of one candidate said they are not debate, the other will take issue with that. Both of the Major Party Candidates do not want to debate, they can step aside. Who knows what the future holds for technology and format but i think for the foreseeable future, we will have president ial and we should advise president ial debates. Barbara perry of the universities thank you so much for joining us on cspan. We do appreciate the time. Thank you john my honor. The first president ial debate between President Donald Trump and Vice President Donald Joe Biden is tuesday at 8 pm eastern. Its campaigns really reckless all it is as for political reasons. Its political reasons. Biden, his whole deal is catastrophic shut down. Then in his own words, recorded by bob woodward, the president knew back in february that this was an extremely dangerous communicable disease. Think about that. How many people died. I many empty chairs around those dinner tables . Because of his negligence and selfishness. What was the first president ial debate live from cleveland tuesday night on cspan. Stream live or on demand at, cspan. Org, slash debates, or listen live on the cspan radio up. Now on American History tv, the first 1960 president ial debate, between john f. Kennedy and Richard Nixon. It was the first printed president ial televised debate in American History. Television and Radio Stations of the United States are proud of the current