Good morning. The committee on health education, labor and pensions will please come to order. First i would like to go through a few administrative matters that weve adopted because of covid. Weve consulted with the attending physician and the department of health and human services, centers for disease control. Individuals in the hearing room are six feet apart. Theres no room for the public in person. The press is covering as a pool. You can watch this on streaming or there will be an unedited recording that everyone can watch. All of our Witnesses Today and some senators are participating by video conference. I would like to Say Something about masks. The office of attending physician has advised that senators and witnesses may remove their masks to talk into the microphones since our chairs are six feet apart. So, thats why my mask is off. When im not back here, im wearing my mask in the hall. Im grateful to the rules committee, the sergeant at arms, the press gallery, the arkt tekt and the Capitol Police and all the hard work to keep us safe and connected with one another. Senator murray and i will each have an opening statement. Well turn to our witnesses we thank for being here today. We have four of them. Each witness, well ask you to summarize your remarks in five minutes. Then each senator will have five minutes for questions and answers. Well ask senators to keep the questions and answers within that fiveminute period wech. We have votes today beginning at 10 30, but we wont interrupt the hearing. We will continue. Someone else will preside for a few minutes while i go vote and come back. The question for the hearing today is whether the tradition of the intercollegiate student athlete is worth preserving, and if so, how to do so . Specifically, what will be the impact on that tradition if a growing number of states pass laws allowing special interests to pay student athletes for use of their name, image and likeness. Ive had had a coupa couple of s that have helped form my opinions on this subject. First, in 1960, during my sophomore year in college, i was exercises on Vanderbilt Universitys cinder track and a man came up and asked my name. He said did you run track in high school . I said no, sir. I said, we didnt have a track team. Why dont you run 100 yards, he said, so i did. He looked at his watch and said, thats very good, 10. 1. I have three really fast boys for the 300yard relay, why dont you be the fourth . 440yard relay then. Why dont you be the fourth. I joined the team and our team set a record for the 440yard relay. My job was to carry the baton from the first fast guy to the third fast guy. The next year we would sometimes practice with students from what was called tennessee a i. They were pretty remarkable athletes. They included athletes wilma rudolph. There were no scholarships to offer. His teams road buses to meet. Our track made it hard to accomplish fast times. Scraping together teams of nonscholarship athletes, he won several conference championships. His enthusiasm that day on the cinder track gave me an experience that millions of americans have had, that of being an intercollegiate student athlete. Someone else who had that experience is also on this committee, senator richard burr. He had a scholarship to play football at wake forest, university. My experience taught me a number of lessons, including this one. When joining a relay team, be sure to pick three runners better than you are, which is not bad advice for how to be an effective senator. As the College Football season gets underway, even amidst covid19, were reminded of how important these games are to the student athletes, their institutions and millions of avid spectators. This fascination with sporting competition is nothing new, according to the Knight Commissions 1991 report on Intercollegiate Athletics. The commission said, quote, the appeal of competitive games is boundless. In ancient times, men at war laid down their weapons to compete in the olympic games. Today people around the globe put aside daily cares to follow the fortunes of their teams in the world cup. In the United States, the super bowl, world series, College Football, ncaa basketball tournament attract millions. Sports have helped break down bigotry and prejudice in american life. On the international scene, theyve helped integrate east and west, socialist and capitalist. The fashion from sport is universally shared across time and continents. Universally shared across time and continents. That is from the night commission. The problem with sports is also are also nothing new. The Knight Commission was established in 1989 to address scandals in College Sports that were shaking confidence. Not just bigtime collegiate athletics, but in the institutions of Higher Education themselves. Well before that in 1929, a report from the car Nikki Foundation said recruiting had become, quote, corrupt. Professionals had replaced amateurs. Education was being neglected and commercialism rained. Even before then in 1906, in response to criticism from teddy roosevelt, the National Collegiate athletic association, the ncaa, had been formed to protect the safety of players and avoid corruption. My second experience forming in opinion about the subject we are talking about today came from my service on that Knight Commission, when i was president of the university of tennessee. Our Commission Recommendation was that University President s take charge and assert themselves. Take charge of College Athletics. Take charge of the huge amount of Television Money it attracted. To restore financial and academic integrity to the programs. As a result over the next several years, academic standards became more stringent, Financial Support for athletes increased, College President s asserted more responsibility for financial controls. What is especially relevant to todays hearing is that despite the problems surrounding Intercollegiate Athletics then, the Knight Commission strongly endorsed keeping the student athlete tradition. This is what the Knight Commission said and i think its worth repeating, quote, we reject the argument that the only realistic solution, that is to the corruption, to the problem is to drop the student athlete concept. Put athletes on the payroll and reduce or even eliminate their responsibilities as students. Quote, such a scheme has nothing to do with education. The purpose for which colleges and universities exist. Scholarship athletes are already paid in the most meaningful way possible with a Free Education. The idea of Intercollegiate Athletics is that teams represent their institutions as true members of the student body and not as hired hands. Surely american Higher Education has the ability to devise a better solution to the problems of Intercollegiate Athletics and making professionals out of the players. That is no solution at all, but an unacceptable surrender to despair. Unquote. I hope those words from the Knight Commission 30 years ago will guide how this congress deals with the newest issue threatening the concept of student athletes. Allowing commercial interests to pay athletes for the use of their name, image and likeness. Already, four states have enacted laws sanctioning such payments in various forms and more than 30 states are considering such legislation. Senator roger wicker, chairman of the Commerce Committee, is considering whether there ought to be congressional action. Our purpose today is the senates education committee, is to inform the work of the Commerce Committee by considering the impact of such payments on the tradition of the student athletes. It would make sense to take a minute to consider exactly who and what we are talking about. Last year, there were about 20 million undergraduates. That was in about 6000 colleges and universities in the United States. Nearly 1100 of those 6000 colleges and universities are members of the ncaa. More than 460,000 young men and women participate in 24 different sports each year. About one quarter of 1 million contests. About 300 of those institutions play football and basketball at the highest level. Fewer than 2 of student athletes will go on to play professional sports according to the ncaa. So this means we are talking about approximately 9000 College Student athletes who compete in a few sports out of more than 460,000 College Athletes across 24 sports. So the current controversy is primarily about an even smaller number. A small percentage of those 9000 students who play football, baseball or mens or Womens Basketball and whose skills and the institutions for which they play make them attractive targets for recruiting officers. Offers that will combine scholarship dollars with endorsement money. For example, an exceptional quarterback, pitcher or running back, might be offered a half Million Dollars. A year by a car dealership in the same town as the college with a big time football, baseball or basketball program. As the Knight Commission said, student athletes are already paid in the most meaningful way with a Free Education. Athletic scholarships are limited to tuitions in these, room and board and required course related books, but this can add up to a lot of money. University of tennessee estimates it spends about 115,000 dollars a year per student athlete including room and board, student stipends, academic support, meals, Sports Medicine, training, travel and equipment. Student athletes may also combined other sources of Financial Aid including federal or state need based aid to help cover the full cost of attendance. These include pell grants, supplemental education opportunity grants, work studies, grants based on need, using federal need calculations such as tendencies hope scholarship, war veterans programs such as the gi bill or post 9 11 gi bill. About 92, 000, or 20 of the student at least, receive grants which can be up to 6200 dollars more. According to the college board, the value of a lifetime degree is 1 Million Dollars over an individuals lifetime and 88 of the ncaa student athletes graduate. Earn a degree. Now to the question at hand. Should congress act or should bring state laws govern payments for name, image and likeness for student athletes . Its a patchwork set of regulations worth the confusion it will cause unrestrained boosters, creative agents, the impact of title ix on men and womens programs, on the coaches effort, and most of all, on the tradition of the intercollegiate student athlete . Solving that question will be the job of the Commerce Committee, but we can inform their decision with todays testimony and senators comments. Based on my experience as a student athlete, my time as a president and my membership on the Knight Commission, let me offer the suggestions. One, the Knight Commission was correct to say that student athletes should not be on the payroll and should be treated as hired hands. To, congress should act, but in a limited way to authorize an independent entity say from litigation writing rules governing the rules for payments of name, image and likeness. Congress, imagine all 535 of us doing this, should provide aggressive oversight of that entity rather than try to write those rules. Three, that governing entity should be the ncaa. I know the ncaa is controversial. So well every entity, or any entity, the tries to write rules for intercollegiate student athletes. The if the ncaa is not doing a good job, the president of the universities who are in charge of it ought to reform it. Giving the job to some existing and cities such as the federal trade commission, which does not have any expertise or sense of responsibility for Higher Education makes no sense, giving the job to a new entity would take forever. Now as to rules which the ncaa should right, heres what i believe should be the overriding principle. Money paid to student athletes for the use of their name, image and likeness should benefit all student athletes at that institution. Following this principle, it would allow the earnings to be used for additional academic support, further study or degrees, for Health Insurance options, more support for injured players and other needs. It would avoid the awkwardness of a senator who earns nothing snapping the ball to a quarterback who earns half 1 Million Dollars for promoting the local honor deal. In it it avoids the inevitable abuse that would occur with agents and boosters being involved with Outstanding High School athletes. It would avoid the unexpected consequences to other teams at an institution because of the impact of title ix or the impact on existing student aid to athletes. Such a principle as i am suggesting preserves the right of any athlete to earn money for the use of his or her name, image or likeness. It simply says, if you elect to be a student athlete, your earnings should benefit all student athletes at your institutions. If you want to keep the money and be someones employee, then go join a professional team. This system would create the same kind of choices that todays ncaa rules for College Baseball require. A High School Student must stay three years if he chooses to participate in a College Baseball program. Senator cain and i were talking before the hearing about virginia and vanderbilt baseball program. Take vanderbilt for example, david price, sunny gray and then swanson, familiar names to Major League Baseball fans, all very successful professional athletes now. They were all drafted by Major League Baseball teams while they were in high school. They couldve earned a lot of money going directly into professional baseball. Instead, they chose a veiled vanderbilt education, three years of College Experience and the opportunity to be taught by coach tim corbyn. If price, gray and swanson had been permitted to sell their name image and likeness while the vanderbilt under the principle im suggesting, their earnings would have been used for the benefit of all vanderbilt sports teams, men and women. Applying such a principle to all Intercollegiate Athletics might cause a few talented athletes to join professional leagues immediately after high school. That is their right. But if that young athlete prefers the College Experience, the expert coaching and teaching, the Free Education, other academic support and the additional 1 Million Dollars in their lifetime that comes with earning a College Degree, then their earnings should benefit all of these students of their institution. While the ncaa is making new rules, it ought to sign most of the new tv revenues to institutions for use in academic support for student athletes rather than continue to encourage inordinate inordinately high salaries for some coaches. I do not see a good ending to allowing a few student athletes to be paid by commercial interests while most of their teammates are not. If Young Athletes want to be a part of a team, enjoy the undergraduate experience, learn from coaches who are among the best teachers in the country and be paid a full scholarship that helps them earn 1 Million Dollars during their lifetime, then all of the student athletes and their institution should benefit. If that student athlete wants to keep the money for himself or herself, that student athlete should become a professional. I will now recognize senator murray for her opening statement. Thank you very much mister chairman and thank you to all of our witnesses for joining us for this hearing today. Before i speak on the hearing, mr. Chairman, i wanted to mention a few things. First of all, i just wanted to say that i have been in very close contact with local leaders on the ground as families in my home state of washington and the west coast are dealing with devastating fires that are wiping out communities and damaging air quality dramatically. I just want to publicly thank the many courageous First Responders and firefighters who are risking their lives to save our families and communities. I want to let them all know that i am committed to doing everything i can to make sure that local Fire Departments and officials in the communities have everything they need to fight these fires and begin this long road to recovery so they can say that. Secondly mister chairman, i want to take a moment to just acknowledge your many decades of leadership on a vast number of issues, including on todays topic, which i know youve always been focused on throughout our time in the senate and the six years running this committee together. You have often help the committee and its members in leading us in very important discussions facing families across this country. I know that i speak for all the members and i thank you for the manner in which you have partnered with me to run this committee as we look into issues like name, image, likeness and so many others. It is easy, especially now, to just go into our respective corners and not have a discussion about big problems in the country is facing. It demonstrates, really, your commitment to this institution and the importance of dialog. That even now, you are facilitating bipartisan discussions on topics like this. This committee benefits enormously from your experiences as a governor, as president of the university of tennessee and education secretary. I know january is a ways off, but i want to start off ice thanking you for all of your great work on this committee and in the senate. Mister chairman, i have to say our Work Together really means a lot to me because while we do have different backgrounds and different perspectives and different styles, you and i and the great members of this committee share our commitment to getting things done for families and communities who represent and for our country. We both want to continue the Important Role this committee plays and we will truly miss you helping drive discussions like the one we are having today. Again and again over the years, you have come to work looking to solve problems, not score political points. So i know i speak for all Committee Members on both sides of the aisle when i say you will be greatly missed. There is no better proof of your determination to work in a bipartisan way and do whatever it takes to find Common Ground in the countless bills that we worked on together and this committee was successful in passing from the 24 century act to the persian ceo as well as a number of bills to address epidemics. They managed to get broad bipartisan support from all of our colleagues. Millions of families for years to come will benefit from your work. So thank you. Nk you. Now, today im glad to have the opportunity to talk about College Athletes, which i know is personal to you as a former track and field star. And mr. Chairman, as you and i talked about before the issue of compensating College Athletes is something youve long been focused on, i also want to thank senator murphy for pushing us to have this discussion today and calling on senator booker and others to work on this issue. This summer, our next year finally began to reckon with Police Brutality and the pervasiveness of systemic racism in our country. A reality which so many have lived with their entire life. One of the many issues we are over due to address is the exploitation of College Athletes. It has profound racial and Economic Justice implications. For too long, the 15 billion dollar College Sports industry has been a glaring example of economic and racial inequity. One where the majority of athletes in division one Revenue Generating sports are black and mostly white coaches and and see double a officials make millions off the labor of young College Athletes. Despite the fact the College Athletes bring in millions of dollars for colleges each year and stimulate local economies across the country, they are prohibited from receiving a penny in compensation. I know there are people who say that a Free Education is a privilege. Compensating athletes will hinder the edge creation. Paying College Athletes will be the end of the sports as we know it. The stories that i have heard from many Young Athletes back in my home state of washington about the inequity and abuse theyve experienced show how our Current System exploits Young Athletes, particularly Young Athletes of color. It has to be reformed. Ive heard from a former all star black College Athlete in washington state, who before he went pro, said he had to steal food from the cafeteria and Grocery Stores because he was not allowed to work and he couldnt afford food. Thats a tough thing for someone to share. But he wanted everyone to know just how difficult it can get for so many athletes. There are countless stories of College Athletes who have their futures thrown into jeopardy because they got injured and were not guaranteed long term Affordable Health care. In some instances, they might lose their scholarship and their chance at an education. College athletes are struggling to manage their academic course loads and grueling daily schedules filled with workouts, practices and games, while also facing food and economic insecurity. While the ncaa and member schools enter into billion dollar media deals, universities invest in luxury facilities. Coaches receive Million Dollar salaries and more. Thats immoral, we should not accept that. So i urge all of my colleagues in the senate to listen to the experiences of College Athletes, particularly College Athletes of color and their home states. Once you do, it is impossible to deny the changes needed. There are a lot of ways congress and other committees can act to protect College Athletes rights and i want to talk about a few of them. First and foremost, we need to make sure that College Athletes are fairly compensated. An important First Step Towards that on the issue is allowing athletes to profit from the use of their name and image and likeness. We have to ensure that all athletes, men and women, get their fair share of their revenue that they have to generate. But fair compensation is just one part of protecting the rights of College Athletes, especially now as the covid pandemic rages on. Its crucial that we establish forceable health and Safety Standards. If an athlete gets injured while playing for their college, they should not be expected to deal with the medical or financial fallout on their own. We have to make sure that College Athletes are guaranteed Affordable Health care and that colleges take responsibility for Lifelong Health issues related to an injury. Biliwe absolutely have to give College Athletes the quality Educational Opportunities and support they deserve. Too many College Athletes are being funneled into easy classes, sometimes even fake ones, they simply dont have the time to complete their course work due to rigorous practice schedules or are not finishing their degree. For black athletes, Graduation Rates are significantly lower than white athletes. Just 55 of blackmail athletes a graduate within six years compared to 70 of all College Athletes. That is wrong and it is unacceptable. All College Athletes should receive the academic support they need to complete a quality education. They need assurances that their scholarships will not be revoked if they are injured. It is clear the status quo is not working. It only serves those at the top. The ncaa should have addressed these issues a long ago, but failed to do it. So Congress Must face these challenges head on and off for College Athletes solutions that and this Current System of exploitation and replace it with a system which values College Athletes voices. So thank you again, mister chairman, as well to each of our witnesses we will hear from shortly. Before i close, i just want to say that in addition to these injustices right now, College Athletes and their peers are also dealing with a pandemic. It has brought enormous uncertainty to Higher Education. For students in an everyone suffering through this pandemic, i just want to say we cannot wait for weeks and months for another package. We have a lot of work to do, a lot of it. So i hope in the days to come, we can finallys get started in a serious negotiation that meets the dire needs we are hearing from our families in the communities we serve. Thank you, mister chairman. Thank you senator murray. Thank you for your generous comments at the beginning. I think everyone on this committee knows that we would not have had these success weve had as a committee over the last several years if i had not been working with a democratic Ranking Member, who used to be a Kindergarten Teacher and who learned as well as taught how to work well together. I will have more to say about that in the future hearings, but i deeply appreciate those comments. As well as the way we had a chance to Work Together including todays hearing. I want to acknowledge the efforts of senator murphy, who is here, senator romney, senator burr, all of whom are having a interest in this subject. Im pleased to welcome our Witnesses Today to the hearing focusing on Intercollegiate Athletics. Senator baldwin will introduce our first witness. Senator baldwin. Thank you. Im pleased to introduce doctor rebecca blake, chancellor of the university of wisconsin madison. Dr. Blank has served as chancellor since 2013. Previously, she served as deputy secretary and acting secretary of commerce under president obama. She was also a member of the council of economic advisers under president clinton. She has served as dean and professor of Public Policy and economics at the university of michigan. She was a faculty member at northwestern and principled in university. She was a fellow at the bookings institution. The university of wisconsin is a member of the big ten, one of the power five conferences. With 23 varsity sports and approximately 800 participating students each year. Chancellor blank was recently appointed to the Ncaa Division one board of directors. I look forward to hearing her insights today as part of todays important discussion about College Athletics and compensation. Welcome chancellor blank. Thank you senator baldwin. Our second witness is karen dennis, she served as director of track and field and crosscountry at Ohio State University for the past six years. Shes been named big ten coach of the year for times and was inducted with the coaches hall of fame of the u. S. Track and field and crosscountry Coaches Association in 2018. She shares both a bachelors degree in Public Affairs and masters degree in physical education from michigan State University. Senator romney will introduce our next witness. Thank you mister chairman. I have the honor to introduce john hart well. The is Vice President and Athletic Director at utah State University. As a former student athlete himself, he played basketball for the citadel. For more than five years he has been the director of athletics at utah state and he has ensured that his students have success both in the classroom and on the Playing Field. Under his leadership, the utah state have achieved a 50 4 50 record in mens basketball. Overall, utah State University has claimed five mountain regular season championships and for postseason titles during his tenure. Just as impressive is utah states student athlete success in the classroom. They have a 93 Graduation Rate and a cumulative 3. 3 six grade point average. The highest in school history. Utah State University is a division one a institution with 16 of varsity teams. It offers 168 undergraduate degrees and 143 graduate degrees. It educates 28,000 students, one of whom, by the way, is my grandson. Today, we examine the potential impacts of the ncaas decision to allow student athletes to be compensated for their name, image and likeness. As a former student athlete, as a certified public accountant, as a Athletic Director at utah State University, john brings an informed and firsthand perspective which i look forward to hearing. Thank you, mister chairman. Thank you, senator romney. Our fourth and final witness is ramogi huma, executive director of the National College players association. He played basketball at ucla where he became a advocate of students rights. His work has been featured on numerous news programs. Hes often quoted on cbs sports and espn, promoting athlete compensation. He earned a bachelors degree in sociology and a master in Public Health at ucla. We will now begin hearing from our witnesses. Chancellor blank, lets start with you. Welcome. Chairman alexander, Ranking Member of murray and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for inviting me today. Thank you senator baldwin for the very kind introduction. Im going to testify about the collegiate model of athletics and some of the potential reforms around student athletes ability to earn income from name, image and likeness. The university of wisconsin at medicine is the Flagship University of our state. We provide a world class education to our students. Im proud to be its chancellor. We are here today to discuss collegiate student athletes. I believe deeply in the student athlete roll with an emphasis on student first. It is the role for students to play sports in college. Only a small percent of soon at least play sports professionally after college. So we need to prepare our athletes for careers off the field. The university of wisconsins is a strong program, with student athletes to perform well both in the classroom and in their sport. Our student athletes not only compete for big ten and national titles, but they are also strong students. More than 350 on the name of the deans list each year. Last year, our student athletes majored in 84 different areas of study. The multi year Graduation Rate for our student athletes is 90 . For all division one athletes, it is 88 . Like other universities, we provide broad support for our student athletes. Theyre scholarship to cover the full cost of attendance including tuition, books, fees, housing and other expenses. But that is just the beginning of the support they receive. They receive laptops and access to dedicated academic advisers. They have access to mentoring and worldclass coaching, Mental Health counseling, sports psychologist, stateoftheart health care. They have access to unlimited meals and snacks. They receive nutritional advice and career counseling and we pay for degree completion at any school in the country for those who leave for professional sports that want to complete their degree later. All of those benefits however are dwarfed by what they received from their cartilage education. Im an economist by training and i know the extensive literature on the returns to a college education. College graduates earn 1 Million Dollars more than those with only a High School Degree over their lifetime. The return to their College Degree is by far the greatest benefit our natalie its receive. The Business Model for College Athletics is greatly misunderstood by the public. Even sponsoring College Sports is the potential to make money. At the university of wisconsin, only football and mens basketball are Revenue Generating sports. Our other 21 sports cost more money than they generate. But the value of our Academic Program is the broad opportunities provides for students with many skills to compete. If we had to spend all of our revenue in only hour two revenue producing sports, im not sure we would run an Athletic Program. In recent years, theres been a lively discussion about allowing student athletes to generate income from name, image and likeness our nail. Other students have this opportunity. I support finding ways for student athletes to do so as well. I would like to discuss the parameters of what that should look like. While we need congressional health, and the legislation should improve the situation for students, not make it worse. The ncaa, the big ten, and the a five have endorsed a set of principles we hope you will consider. These include one, we need congress to pass federal legislation and needed before july of 2021 when the first state law goes into effect. We cannot function under a hodgepodge of state laws now being passed that will make it difficult for a level Playing Field for recruitment or competition. To, federal legislation must include. We need a very narrowly tailored anti trust exemption. Three, we must protect college recruiting. Student athletes should have new avenues to pursue payment from third parties to name, image and likeness. But those should be totally outside the recruiting process. Bore, we must avoid pay for play. Our students are not professional athletes and should not be paid to participate in sports. Last, student athletes are not university employees. Their First Priority is to be students working towards a College Degree. The ncaas Division One Board of directors is developing new and iowa rules for student athletes which will come to the board for consideration later this year. I value the role of congress in constructing a National Frame up and giving us these tools we need to make it work. You should not wait on the ncaa process and i hope you will want to agree on a national standard, you will provide us with a narrow Legal Protection needed for us to implement your decision. Thank you very much. Thank you chancellor. Karen dennis, welcome. Thank you chairman alexander. I would like to quickly say that your ten one performance in 1960 will stood be pretty good 60 years later. Chairman alexander, Ranking Member murray and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. As one whos been engaged in sports over the past six decades as an athlete, coach and now one of only 3 of women in the country to preside as director of a dual gendered track and field program. Im honored to be with you today to provide some insights. My parents were both college educated. My mother was a schoolteacher, my father a city of detroit employee. My father was an outstanding high jumper and sprinter who competed against and with the great jesse owens, a renowned buckeye. I graduated Michigan State with a bachelors degree and masters degree. I was the first women at Michigan State in track and field to receive an athletic grant and aid, a whopping 300 dollars. I was the head coach of Michigan State, you and i will be in the 2000 u. S. Womens track and field olympic team. Currently, i am in my sixth season as director of track and field and Cross Country at the Ohio State University. Ohio States Department of athletics offers 36 intercollegiate sports, 17 womens and 16 mens and three coed. Approximately 1000 student athletes. Only two programs, football and mens basketball, actually generate a profit. Revenue sharing from these programs is what makes it possible for programs like mine to exist. Ohio states Athletic Department is one of approximately 20 nationwide. Its self sustaining and receives no university funds, tax dollars or student fees. Ive been fortunate to have witnessed and been a benefactor to the many changes in collegiate sports over the past several decades. Throughout each period in change of governance, the Student Athlete Experience has been significantly enhanced. As states began to enact laws governing student athlete compensation, i would like to offer some insights on the impact pay to play and name, image and likeness, could have on our students and University Sports teams. Im a strong supporter of the amateur as a model of collegiate athletics. Paying players to play, in essence making them employees of the universities, would have serious negative consequences on College Sports and the student athlete. Rioui fear once enrolled, soon athletes would prioritize athletic performance to the detriment of their academics and athletics. The cost of funding, pay to play at best, would result in smaller squad sizes, thereby eliminating competitive opportunities for many students. At worst, it would force many Athletic Departments to completely eliminate non Revenue Generating sports such as track and field. I also support the ncaas efforts to allow, name, image and likeness opportunities for student athletes consistent within the collegiate athlete model. I believe it will serve a broader base of students while embracing the successful ncaa amateur sports structure. Given the opportunity to brandon himselfs while in college with technical, intellectual, tangible and illegal resources at their disposal, a greater number of student athletes who leave School Better prepared for life and global citizenship. However, certain guardrails and Education Programs must be put into place to appropriately support the student athlete. With newfound nil revenue, comes unexpected tax liabilities and unexpected financial implications that could affect the athletes ability for some student aid programs. Social Media Opportunities must be properly vetted by both the student athlete and the institution with appropriate privacy protections put into place. At ohio state, we place great emphasis on life after sport through the eugene de Smith Leadership institute. It provides leadership, character and Career Development opportunities to all stew net leads in order to best prepare them for life after graduation. There are serious benefits as well as concerns to stern athletes as Compensation Opportunities became reality. Policy makers should be encouraged to continue to hear multiple viewpoints to ensure that the appropriate structures support student athletes and protects the amateur as a model. It has been so important to the collegiate experience of millions of athletes. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify and i look forward to answering any questions you may have. Thank you miss dennis for being here today. Mr. Harper well, welcome. Thank you chairman alexander and Ranking Member murray and distinguished members of the committee. Thank you so much for inviting me to testify on this important topic today. Collegiate athletics have played a huge part in my life. The education experiences, relationships and life Lessons Learned over four years as a student athlete at the sun little citadel many years ago. Those have been invaluable to me over the last 37 years. The most rewarding aspect of my job is being able to facilitate and provide lifechanging opportunities through collegiate athletics to others just as i was fortunate to be given many years ago. My primary responsibility is the director of athletics is to provide the tools and resources necessary for our skin athletes to be successful in the classroom and on the field of play. A senator romney so graciously pointed out, at utah state we are winning in the classroom and on the field to play. In addition to the championships one and the high grade point averages and graduation success rates, we have also finished in the top 25 in the country over the last five years in the sports of football, mens basketball, mens Cross Country and mens track and field. In addition, in the 2020 nfl draft, quarterback jordan love was the only non autonomous power vibe conference student athlete selected. There are a lot of things going well here at utah State University. I want to talk a little bit about the financial side of College Athletics and i will throw back on my cpa have for many years ago to talk a little bit about that. Operating budgets for fps institutions, the highest level of football playing institutions which there are 130, range from roughly 16 Million Dollars to over 230 Million Dollars in annual budgets. At utah state, our budget is around 36 million. Of that 36 million, 13 million in revenues are generated through football and mens basketball. Conversely, for expenditures, we spend about 11. 5 Million Dollars annually on football and mens basketball. One important consideration in the collegiate funding model is title ix. Revenues from football and mens basketball help Fund Scholarships in many sports, including for female student athletes, which are required by title ix compliance. To me, the greatest victory a student athlete can achieve during their collegiate experience is when they walk across the stage to get a degree. Once earned, that degree can never be taken away. As you heard from other witnesses, that degree can often lead to Financial Success in your life going forward, regardless the field of competition they going into. An athletic career can be taken away whether by illness or injury in the flash of a eye. The importance of getting that degree is important. Education opportunities for student athletes, many of whom would not be able to afford these opportunities without athletic scholarships. The evolving needs of student athletes have been addressed in recent years with additional benefits being allowed by ncaa bylaws to include cost of attendance, stipends, and the most recent iteration is name, image, and likeness. The concept of allowing student athletes the ability to profit from their name, image, and likeness just as any other student on campus has the ability to makes total sense. However, this opportunity does not need to become the path to pay for play, which would erode the collegiate model, which is so important to us. Key elements to consider when thinking about name, image, and likeness are these. The percentage of student athletes likely to generate money from name, image, and likeness endorsements and sponsorships is a very small percentage of the total number of student athletes that compete. At the division i level, we have an average of 180,000 students who compete. I would venture to say those who generate significant income off of name, image, and likeness is a very small fraction of that. We also have to be careful of the unintended consequences of name, image, and likeness. Major recruiting violations have the opportunity to increase dramatically. It would be very difficult to monitor compensation and ethics, especially when funneled through thirdparty entities. Title ix can be a significant challenge based on the makeup of who would be receiving these benefits. Also, revenues that benefit all student athletes on a campus, such as apparel and footwear deals, or corporate sponsorships, may reduce every benefit for student athletes and be channeled to a select few student athletes. I think the important point is the financial challenges will likely be the most severe at limited resource institutions. Weve got to have recruiting guardrails put in place to make sure they are in place for collegiate athletics as it relates to nil. Recruitment of Prospective Student athletes has to be safeguarded by the ncaa to maintain any type of competitive balance. In conclusion, we need congress to pass legislation on nil to provide a consistent National Framework and ensure collegiate institutions and student athletes are not forced to navigate different state guidelines on the topic. We would ask for swift, preemptive federal legislation to offset the individual state laws. I realize Higher Education may not be for everyone. And baseball and hockey, which have very strong minorleague programs, they have alternatives if athletes in these sports dont decide to go to college. We need to work with the nfl, nba, wnba, and other professional leagues to further study minorleague Development Systems as an option for those athletes not inclined for Higher Education. As we navigate through unprecedented and challenging times in our country, including the covid19 pandemic and social and political unrest, we must safeguard the overwhelming impact of College Athletics and its structure tethered to Higher Education. On behalf of my fellow Athletic Directors, i want to express our appreciation for your attention to name, image, and likenessimpact on collegiate athletics going forward. We believe theres a way to provide additional Income Opportunities for student athletes through nil while preserving the collegiate model and student athletesamateur status. Thanks to each of you for your dedicated service and interest in this important topic. Thank you. Mr. Houma, welcome. Good morning. Im the executive director of the National College players association, which served as the primary advocate for the nil laws, and the other states pursuing resolution. I would like to thank chairman alexander and Ranking Member murray for allowing me to testify. The ncpas opposition to each conference proposal is in my written testimony. Over the last couple of months, we have seen colleges and opposition to Racial Injustice in policing and other areas, which is positive. Ncaas image itself is based on Racial Injustice. The ncaa uses amateurism as cover for generational wealth from predominantly black athletes from lower income households to pay for lavish salaries and well think coaches millions of dollars, the ncaa sports to support this and system and travel the rights of states for adopting laws to protect their College Athletes. The patchwork of state laws that give athletes Economic Freedom would be uncovered. And ever changing array of covid orders and they can comply with any mile differences of state laws. And grant athletes freedoms. Federal courts have concluded many times that it does not exist and colleges with the most revenues have the largest recruiting budgets, have the best coaches and the best facilities an intern they get the best recruits. When the most games, and have the richest tv deals. Allowing them to continue their dominance. The 2019, Ohio University it earned 200 million yours in revenues. It is preseason income rankings and utah state was ranked 95th. The Economic Freedoms and rights and the ncaa can pretend that a level Playing Field exists but it does not. The claims of not the revenue source, they generate are baseless. In football and basketball revenues the Ncaa Division two would not exist but it does over 300 schools where theyre not enough to subsidize another source the ncaa a decision does not exist. But they do exist. They simply dont stand extravagantly as a doing. Schools theyre conducting an analysis, and find that in 2017 the average division of college, spent about 34 Million Dollars per year more. Then the to feel the same sports. This means that the levels are not necessary for these divisional sports. In fact while fps revenues exploded by over 5 Million Dollars by 2016 2018, it decreased by over 300, while the number of assistant scorches coaches increased by 1500. The the number of assistant coaches increased by over 1500. Administrative expenses skyrocketed to over 1 billion. Its clearly unnecessary to hire more coaches and administrators for fewer athletes. 4 million per school expenditures can be used to compensate College Athletes while clearly complying with title ix and preserving all nonrevenue scores. It could come from conferences or athletic associations, all it would take is for colleges to have some expend cut expenditures, coaches, and lavish facilities. We are asking congress not to adopt a narrow nil law designed to reduce Economic Freedoms. College athletes dont need congress to secure nil freedoms. States across the nation are already enacting equitable loss. We ask congress to enact a muchneeded broadbased reform to bring forward the enforcement of health and Safety Standards, to end sexual abuse, and practices that harm College Athletes. Prevent them from being with medical expenses, improve Graduation Rates, and allow players to share in revenue generated. And we will allow compensation that extends, not undermines. We are grateful to the group of senators who put forward the legislative framework and bring forward broadbased reform for College Sports. We support that 100 . Thank you. Thanks to all of the witnesses. Votes have begun. We will continue the hearing and alternate so we can go to the floor. Ill begin a five minute round of questions. I would ask senators and witnesses to keep each senators time within five minutes. I agree about coaches salaries. And the issue of name, image, and likeness we are talking about may be slightly different, but i agree it would be a practical move for the ncaa, particularly in a precovid situation, where Television Revenues were about to explode to require most of that revenue to go to the benefit of student athletes, not to raise the salaries of coaches around the country. Let me take that principle and apply it to name, image, and likeness. Why hasnt baseball come pretty close to getting it right . Here we have a i mentioned some of the great vanderbilt baseball players, sunny gray, david price, kumar rocker is there now. When he graduated from high school, he had a choice to make. He could have gone straight into Major League Baseball, and probably played in the Minor Leagues for a little while, or he could have gone to vanderbilt, got a vanderbilt degree, coached by tim corbin, enjoyed the undergraduate experience, but he had to stay for three years. Why shouldnt we say of if some auto dealer in nashville wants to sponsor the name, image, and likeness of sunny gray when he was there, why shouldnt those earnings go to all of the student athletes at vanderbilt instead of to the pitcher . Why shouldnt we simply say that that jeopardizes the intercollegiate athletic experience for student athletes, and that if a pitcher, running back, or quarterback wants to be sponsored individually by someone, they can become a professional . They might find even if they are a very good quarterback, they will learn a lot more money from the local auto dealer if they are a quarterback for the university of alabama than if they are for a class a in the football league. Why not make the choice a lot like the baseball choice, where you have a right to earn it, but if you earn it and elect to be a student athlete, that money goes to all the student athletes . If you elect to keep it, then you become a professional. Mr. Hartwell . Mr. Chairman, that model exists in some extent right now as it relates to the example i used earlier, whether it is footwear and apparel rights as a relates to nike or adidas, and if they were allowed to do individual deals. I will go back to my original example, jordan love, our highest paid student athlete, we would have a select few student athletes who would be able to command those types of revenues, and in all likelihood, as a relates to footwear and apparel companies, they could diminish the amount they were providing to the institution and instead funnel it to the individual who they thought had the greatest opportunity to go forward, be professional, and have a greater return on that investment for them. And so in that example, you wouldnt all likelihood not be able to provide two or three pairs of shoes and practiced here and uniforms for all the individuals on your track and field team or on your gymnastics team, things like that. Those are the challenges that are there. Also with baseball, you have the opportunity, with baseball and hockey, they have very robust Minor League Systems that allow those students coming out of high school who are not inclined to pursue Higher Education or who want to go directly to the professional ranks, that opportunity. So it minimizes in a lot of cases the issues in those ports. Miss dennis, i have 30 seconds left. What would the impact be . Would it be better to allow any endorsement money to be spread among all these tune athletes . Should the student individual students keep it . Thank you for that question senator alexander. I am not sure how to answer that. I think name, image and likeness, theres two different classes of stew natalie that can really make money off of their name, image and likeness. However, i do think all stew natalie it can benefit from the Financial Literacy and educational components, including Financial Literacy, how to brand themselves, how to create a brand and ran themselves for after college. I think they are two different set of athletes who would be affected by name, image and likeness. Thank you for the answer. I will try to stick close to my five minutes to set a good example. Senator murray. Senator murray is voting. Is senator casey available . Senator burr. Thank you mister chairman. Thank you to all of our Witnesses Today. I happen to be one of two scholarship collegiate scholarship players in the United States senate. I may not know much about this, but in titles me to an opinion. I have been somewhat outspoken on the fact that i think this is a huge mistake and i have expressed that to my colleagues and to the ncaa. Let me say to all of you that this is an issue that could not be reversed if we made the wrong move. Theres no do overs. I will turn to you mr. Huma, and ask you that since your organization is predominantly funded by the united Steel Workers of america. What is their interest in name and likeness in this issue . Thank you for the question. Its almost been 20 years now funded by the Steel Workers. Weve mentioned some of the progress that weve made over the years could not have happened without their support. Honestly, the Steel Workers, i cant speak on their behalf, but theyve demonstrated very clearly that they support our cause for athletes. That this issue is really about workers who dont have workers rights and trying to navigate that space. Theres a number they are not great fans of College Sports. They are out promoting some type of equity that they think is being cheated. As a scholarship athlete, im having a hard time, its almost an outof body experience in figuring out how a professional athlete they gets paid millions of dollars is cheated somehow in college because they got in education and now they have an opportunity and an income. I will turn to chancellor blank. Im sure that your school like every school, when covid hit and decisions were made not to have false sports fearsome. Athletic budgets were reviewed and you begin to look at what the impact was going to be of losing the revenue from fall sports. Tell me if you will, with that specificity because i do not want to as something of wisconsin or the ohio state or your top state that is proprietary, but how would that have impacted non revenue sports or how might it impact non revenue sports . Your predominantly womens teams. Almost all universities. We use the revenue that comes in from our Athletic Program to support the anti Athletic Program. Its not like the rest of my university where i have certain units like business or engineering. They generate more income, but. I use some of that revenue to support language programs and history and political science. Similarly, we want to support a broad based Athletic Program and our revenue, all of which goes back into the students and into the programs, it does that. When covid hit, we did cut athletic budgets. In fact, none of the teams are competing this fall. The big team has postponed his its seasons due to health concerns. Let me turn to you coach. Im sure you are privy to the budget calculations made of the ohio state. How would that have affected your track and field and crosscountry teams . Senator, there is no way that we would have a track and field team if a pay for play kind of model existed. Where the majority of the revenue, the majority of money that could be paid to high visibility student athletes, it would not allow our non revenue sports to fund or even just have the same number of stern athletes on the each team. Each team may have to reduce the number of potential applicants. Deny collegiate athletic experience for many students or sports would be dropped. Just recently here in the big ten, minnesota due to covid and the Economic Impact on their athletic budget, they had to drop their mens track and field team. That is happening in some of the other conferences where teams are being dropped. It would have a very devastating effect on how programs would be able to exist. Lastly director hartwell. You are the Athletic Director. You are where the buck stops and you have to make the difficult decisions. I think you said your athletic budget totaled was 36 Million Dollars, which in some degree is dwarfed by many institutions around the country. How would that have impacted specifically womens sports at utah state if you lost your revenue sports . If significant changes happen in your revenue stream. We have had to spread the well if you will. Our budget iterations have gone from 34 the 38 million to 35 million to 27 million in as a result of covid19. It has been a correction, if you will, in collegiate athletics. When this all started for us in march, the two priorities that we had to protect were sports and scholarships. We compete in 16 division one sports. That is the ncaa minimum. Thats not really an option for us. Obviously, we want to protect our stew natalie. So Everything Else is important. Across the board, whether its men or Womens Basketball or football or our olympic sports, including all the women sports, they have taken in equal share in trying to help us get to the other side of this and make. I think all of the witnesses and my time is expired. Senator casey. Thank you very much. I wanted to thank chairman alexander and Ranking Member murray for this hearing today. I think we can all agree that the covid19 crisis has shined and even brighter light on the race and economic inequities they continue to permeate our society. It is made clear than ever the urgent need to address them. Today we are discussing a College Athlete model that is in need of reform. I think thats an understatement. To ensure that it justly benefits the athletes its meant to serve, its a system with shortcomings disproportionately affect athletes of color who are generating enormous revenues for the colleges and universities they represent, whether it is playing football, basketball or other sports. I think we have to keep in mind, at least four broad goals. Number one, to ensure the revenues generated by athletes are more equitably distributed, number two, ensure College Athletes are kept safe, healthy and best practices are not just talked about but implemented. Number three, improve economic outcomes for College Athletes. Number four, ensure that athletes voices are heard and that they have a say in decisions that affect their will being and futures. We know that millions of americans love College Sports and love the players who proudly represent their schools. We must make sure that these ports we love to write by those who play them. But so let me start, i have a question for the whole panel in the time that i have. However, i want to start with a question for mr. Huma. In your testimony, you described how health and Safety Standards are not uniform across the schools and are not enforced identically across schools. Youve also spoken about how the issue is not that the information or not that information on best practices doesnt exist, but that it is not being implemented. Its critical we do all we can to keep College Athletes healthy and safe as i mentioned. Not just during the pandemic but during the course of their regular competition. Can you speak in greater detail about player safety issues were best practices are known but not implemented. Secondly, about the consequences for athletes regarding this lack of action. Sure, thank you for the question. In 2001, there were a few football in the season. There was the death of the vikings offensive lineman of illness. The difference between nfl and ncaa sports, they implemented best practice guidelines and made him enforceable. In College Sports, the ncaa refused to do so. I finished playing for ucla and i had no idea that the ncaa sports did not enforce health and Safety Standards. To this day they still do not. Unfortunately, there continues to be deaths related to heat illness and other preventable issues. That includes those related to sickle cell, and concussions, even with all the different attention to concussions and cte that weve seen to this day. It is not against ncaa rules for a football coach to force a player back in with a concussion on national television. They will not come to anyones rescue. They will not investigate. As well as Sexual Assault in these institutions. They have nowhere to go because its a major problem that is ongoing. The remaining time that i have, just for the whole panel, i know these answers will have to be sure, but we know the system has to be improved. We also have to work towards a system that treats athletes fairly and make sure that we listen to the voices of these athletes. Here is a question for all the witnesses. What do you believe are the two or three most important changes we can make to the current model of College Athletics to ensure it treats players both equitably and is responsive to their voices . We will go in order of testimony. Let me start. I want to say first that what mr. Huma is says is not true in the big ten. We for instance have independent observers stationed at every game who can polled any player that observes any symptom of concussion illness. We care a great deal about safety. I found your statement wrong and needed to start by saying that. Your question was, the main topic here is name, image and likeness. The most important thing the federal government can do with legislation right now is free up state laws, set National Standards for how name, image and likeness should work. Give exemption so we can enforce those laws. Safeguard the student status of these students as not employees. Help us address the title ix issues so name, image and likeness does not get caught up in timeline in a difficult way. Those are the things that i think we are asking for in terms of the federal legislation in the very near future. And with the other answers can be way of written submissions if that is all right. Thank you senator casey for that. All witnesses will have an opportunity to answer that in writing. Senator paul is recognized. Advocates of change are beseeching congress for federal regulation on College Sports. Be careful what you wish for. The history of government it is a soft touch which may ultimately morph into a heavy hand. What happened to the democraticsocialist of america will universities become coops or communes . Will president s and secretaries and coaches and playerssalaries be equalized . Be careful what you wish for. I think it is a terrible, rotten, no good idea to federalize College Sports. The ncaa should make their own rules. If the ncaa needs exception from antitrust rules to create these rules, i can support that. But, setting federal rules for College Sports is a huge mistake. Advocates of federalising College Sports argue, oh, a hodgepodge of rules and all the different states have rules. We hear this from the Business Community and i have opposed it steadfastly. Federalizing the rules are a mistake. They may morph into something that is intolerable. The argument also ignores that the ncaa is particularly poised to propagate nationwide rules because losing membership in the ncaa significantly enforces a nationwide rule on name, image and likeness. I would propose we should not involve washington. We should not involve congress. It is a mistake to take us away from the ncaa and those who represent the ncaa from colleges. My argument is if you choose not to obey the ncaa rules and they kick you out, it will be hard to get players. It will be hard to have an accepted program if you dont obey the rules. This should be left to the ncaa. I wont ask any questions and i will only take a couple of minutes. I would suggest if we do another hearing like this, we ought to get somebody on the committee who actually thinks it is a bad idea to federalize College Sports and there is an argument to be made for the ncaa doing this on their own. Thank you and i yield back my time. Senator murphy. Thank you for bringing us here together today. Im a huge College Sports fan. I cant help but have noticed this has turned into a 15 billion industry over the course of the last 15 years. In that time, it has gone from a 5 billion industry to 15 billion industry. It is the only multibilliondollar industry in this country where we allow for the employers to collude in order to fix the wages of the majority of their employees. Thats whats going on here. We can say that the workers, the athletes should be happy with the cost of tuition, but thats not how the free market works. And, to me, its just pretty rich to listen to a coach make 5 million a year tell his athletes they should be ok with simply the cost of tuition. For all of those in this body who believe in the free market, i dont know why we decide to keep it from athletes who are producing an incredibly, and increasingly valuable service. The argument is they arent athletes, they are not workers. They are actually just students who happen to play a sport. And the argument from senator alexander and others is that if they want to be pros, just go be pros. I want to start with you, mr. Huma, to understand of those two arguments hold up. I want to make sure i have a minute remaining to ask one additional question of chancellor blank. Quick answers if you could. Can a High School Football player who wants to go to the nfl and make money, whos ready to do so, can they do that . No, they get that from college. Its a big business. Even from there, just to say go pro, less than 10 go in 2 go to the nfl. You have 98 who dont get an opportunity to get their fair share of the industry. Hundreds of thousand dollars a year briefly. Ohio state has 209 million. They cannot ship if they were to share that with the athletes that they suddenly have to cut sports. Other colleges in the same division you get these scare tactics even from the top producers. Lets be clear, you dont have a choice as a highvalue High School Athlete . You cannot just go to the nfl. You cannot go to the nba. You have to make a stop along the way in the big business of College Sports because theres a lot of folks who make millions of dollars depending on it. Are these students like all other students . How many hours a week are our power five Football Players spending on athletics . If theyre students and then on the side athletes, id expect they would be putting in five, 10 hours a week on athletics. How many hours a week are some of these power five students putting into these athletics . The average fbs Football Player spends 44 hours per week in their sport alone. You go to the other athletes, well over 30 hours a week. To pretend that academics are first. These are athletes that have to schedule their entire coursework around athletics. They oftentimes have to miss games and other sports. That is the true nature of College Sports. So, they dont have the choice to go pro. They are Athletes First and students second. Lets be honest about that. Finally in the minute i have remaining, to chancellor blank i have heard the argument from you and others that if you were forced to pay College Athletes, at least in sports like football and basketball that make money, then you couldnt afford to run the other sports. I think mr. Huma did a good job explaining there are other institutions from high school to division iii colleges that managed to run sports programs without any making any money, so im not sure how you couldnt adopt a model that is less professional looking. Let me make the argument to you that you dont have to reallocate money at all outside your football program. Your head coach of the university of wisconsin makes 4 million a year. Whats the problem with just paying him the salary of an average member of congress and taking those additional dollars and divvying them up amongst those who play for him . That wouldnt affect the rest of your College Sports, just reallocating money within the football program. We have been quoted as being quite critical of paying coaches. As i noted earlier, it is very hard to find people who have top coaching skills, whether in college or professional sports. We used to restrict College Coach salaries in the ncaa. There was a lawsuit on antitrust grounds that we lost. Since then, College Coaches have competed up the market. I would be more than happy i have said this publicly it would allow us to restrict coaches salaries. I think that is appropriate for College Sports. I think it is somewhat outrageous that the highest state employee in many states is the state football coach. You are not allowed to restrict College Coaches pay, but you are allowed to be able to restrict the compensation of athletes. That is patently absurd to me, and it is one of the reasons why this committee has to be engaged with the Commerce Committee. The senators time has expired. Senator cassidy. He may be having some technical problems. Im walking on the street right now so i refer to the next senator for questions. Thank you. Senator romney. My concern about athlete compensation has been focused less upon the 2 of the pros who can make a lot of money. I know it makes sense that its not fair that these top athletes are not getting paid their full market value. I recognize that. I appreciate that concern. My biggest concern has been the 98 who play on the Football Team or Basketball Team and are putting it as much as 5, 6 hours a day in practice and never getting to the pros. They are making an enormous sacrifice and doing so for the love of the sport and probably hope that they could go on to the pros. It seems unfair that they have to endure the kind of sacrifice that they carry out without the prospect of additional compensation. I have spoken with the ncaa about that matter and they say our challenge is to provide any additional compensation to the members of these teams, makes them effectively under federal law, employees and therefore subject to employment law. There would be subject to age discrimination, wrongful termination. You can get cut by the team and sue the team. Mr. Huma, is your thought that these College Athletes might appropriately join a union . I think if there are state laws that recognize what they do, denied the right to a labor law. In terms of the different laws of competition, there are many out there. Players could receive money directly from the Media Outlets which has nothing to do with employee status. Even the conferences, the association. There are ways to look at this and consider those different aspects. Again, i think that there are pretty realistic and easy models to consider that dont get into some of the more challenging issues that might not have full support of congress. They are there to provide money for the university. They spend a lot of time. That is a possibility as well. I think the point is, i have a sense why the steelworkers would be interested in this topic. A unionization of College Athletes which would be a real revenue generator for a union. This, i think, is the reason why and senator paul raised the question about why the federal government is looking at this. The ncaa has come to the federal government and says we could solve this, but we have run up against all sorts of federal law and federal regulation. We need to have help to understand what you want us to do and guidance. Because obviously, the colleges are not interested in having the athletes become union members, to be subject to employment law, wrongful termination, age discrimination. All the sorts of things that makes it difficult to run an Athletic Program. My own inclination is the right course here is to find a way to provide additional compensation to members of teams for those that are the 2 , if you will. Either that might be able to get name and likeness but limited to 50,000 a year. Or allow them to go pro. You indicated, well, they cannot go pro in football. But, my guess is it would be easier for football to change that and to follow more the baseball model than for us to come up with a new law. I wonder would we satisfy the concerns that you have if we indicated that we will increase the ability to compensate all the members of the team, not just the 2 that go onto the pros, and that the very high earner, the potential 2 , they might be able to get image and likeness but limited to 50,000 year. Would that work . Let me ask dr. Blank, would the process of that nature work and do you see the same concerns i am describing . I would oppose that type of thing. The pay for play system. I have 850 student athletes. I run those programs because i want those students to develop a set of skills they may not develop in other classrooms. I want them to learn selfdiscipline, selfconfidence. The thing i hope they are learning and other students are learning. That is about an educational process. It is not about coming here to earn money and to be an employee. No, i wouldnt agree with you, but i think that is a good idea. Ok. Ms. Dennis . Senator romney, thank you. Football players can go pro in college. They cant go pro, like mr. Huma said, from high school. We are not interested really in nonrevenue sports, as well as for all of our student athletes, we are not interested in being professionals at a university. Were interested in being student athletes who aim for education from experience. If we start making all of our student athletes, have them go pro, our olympic teams will be decimated. I dont know if we have thought about the system that College Athletes serve for our olympic teams. In 2016, the road to rio ran right through the University System. There were 80 of our student athletes comprised our olympic team. Of that, there were 550 members on team usa and 436 of them were either incoming student athletes, current student athletes, or former student athletes. Im not interested in that. I would ask the other panel but i cannot due to the time. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you. Senator murray. Thank you. Mr. Huma, you are a College Football player at ucla, a Large Division i program that brings in millions of dollars in revenue. But in your role as executive director of the National College players association, you work with College Athletes participating in a very wide range of sports, those we see playing on tv and names recognized in the vast majority who play sports that are never aired on tv and whose names we may never know. I wanted to ask you. Your work with College Athletes, what are some of the Biggest Health and safety concerns for players . Are these issues different between sports or across the three Ncaa Divisions . Thanks for the question. There are issues that are comment across all divisions. Again, the problem is because there is no health and Safety Standards enforced by the ncaa. There are life and death issues that continue to keep coming up. As i mentioned, heat illness. Some of you may remember the death of jordan mayor and maryland a few years ago that was completely preventable. It will happen. We dont know exactly when, but it will happen. Until there is enforcement of those kinds of roles. Sickle cell related deaths. Strength and conditioning courses coaches that are not regulated to make sure their workouts are safe. We mentioned in the big ten, theres plenty of problems in the big ten. We have some of the worst Sexual Assault scandals in College Sports that are still actively being investigated. Those issues go unaddressed across all divisions because theres nowhere for these players to go. Traumatic brain injury is not just football. Womens sports actually have higher road rates of concussions and comparable sports. Womens soccer players have higher rates than men soccer players. There are some things that are common in Contact Sports especially. But its really throughout the divisions. Thank you. Its very concerning. I want to also ask you macross the country is a critical challenge for students, parents and staff, for many colleges, College Athletes, the first students to return to campus are there planned tore enforceable protocols established by ncaa . When players started arriving, theres absolutely nothing. Players began getting sick almost immediately across various sports. Mandatory. If there were problems, players would be able to call a hotline. If you go to the ncaa web page, they say if theres problems, call us and we will ask the conference to politely correct the situation. There is no enforcement. When they want to enforce rules like on compensation, they are there, it makes national headlines, they are hammering schools in players. When it comes to health and safety, they pretend like things are mandatory when in actuality there is no punishment. Theres no indication whatsoever right now that there is anything that is enforceable when it comes to covid in ncaa sports. Dr. Blank, coach dennis, i want to follow up on this issue with the. The big ten made the decision to postpone fall sports until 2021. A month later, it is now revealing revisiting that decision. Like the College Athletes and schools in my home state of washington, i know that College Athletes on your campus is also want to compete. I think we have to all agree that health and safety of young people has to be a top priority. Has the ncaa or the big ten provided protocols to your schools in light of the coronavirus . Let me start. The most important policy is established and that every school is following is that everyone who feels unsafe playing in the age of covid can sit out this year. They will maintain their scholarship. They can return next year with no loss of eligibility and money. We want anyone who does not feel comfortable playing to not play. Weve communicated that very thoroughly to all of our athletes. I was asking more specifically, are there any protocols that have been provided in terms of safety and health . My understanding is that the conferences are setting their own individual protocols. That is why the big ten, for instance, has made different choices than other conferences. Coach dennis. Senator murray, thank you. There are some very strict protocols in place at the Ohio State University for the return to play. Every student athlete is being tested, covid tested. If they are found positive, then they are put into quarantine. There is Contact Tracing around them. There is a complete cardiology work up doing a cardiology mri. If they are tested positive, then they cannot return to play until there is approval from the cardiologist after the tests. They are safe to be able to come back to practice. Are those schools . That is at the Ohio State University. I will tell you that the student athletes there, they have 24 7 concierge medical attention. Our trainers are up at 3 00 in the morning if necessary. If they get a phone call, then they are being taken care of. Im sure there are some abuses around the country, but in the big ten four, the most part and at ohio state, those abuses do not exist. To mr. Humas credit, yes. There has been some unfortunate occurrences with heat injuries. The wrap no situation at iowa. But i tell you that after those kinds of things happen, i just dont believe, they are not taken lightly. Additional protocols have been put in place. By ohio state as well as the big ten. Chairman, im out of time. I will submit additional questions. Thank you senator murray. Senator kaine thank you mister chair and Ranking Member for holding this hearing. One of the things i love about this committee is some of the elements of our work our issues i have cared about and thought about a lot over the course of my life and career in technical education. Some are issues that, even if they are important to me as a citizen, i have not thought that much about the Public Policy side of it. Todays hearing would be an example of that. I just havent thought that much about the Public Policy side of collegiate sports. A couple of thoughts, or questions, because i want to be educated by the witnesses. In virginia, the two largest schools, the university of virginia and Virginia Tech, actually not the largest, but two of our prominent institutions. They are both part of the Atlantic Coast conference. The Atlantic Coast conference has decided to play ball football. Virginia techs first game was scheduled last weekend on september 12th against North Carolina state. That game had to be postponed because of an outbreak of coronavirus among North Carolina state players. Virginia techs second game was to be this weekend against the university of virginia. That game has been postponed because of an outbreak of covid among Virginia Tech players but the ac is still playing football. Why, if weve had to scrap the first two games, the Virginia Tech games and obviously the other teams that were involved, i would just like to ask each of the witnesses, why are we working so hard to continue fall football if the results, at least in the ac, are such Great Questions about the ability to do it safely are so obvious . So, the big ten did decide to postpone its football season. It has postponed all of its fall sports. There were several main reasons for that. One was that that we were uncertain that we could do the level of testing and Contact Tracing that we needed to keep athletes safe. Secondly, there was evidence about heart related issues. That evidence was uncertain and it was not clear what it meant. We wanted to know more. There were other minor reasons, but until we have answers to that, we will keep our season postponed. Once we have answers to that and some of those issues and ways to deal with them effectively, we will try to plan a delayed season. That is one of the reasons weve delayed our season. Chancellor black, some reporting suggests that the big ten may vote this week to restore fall football. Are those reports accurate . Im not going to speak to that. You will have to let the big ten make that announcement when and if such a decision is made. When such a decision is made, your first question should be what has changed . Hopefully, we will have answers exactly to the issues ive just raised. You know whether a decision of that kind of is going to be a unanimous, or would require unanimous vote by the College President s or some lesser vote . I cant say what the vote is going to look like. Decisions within the big ten are largely majority days based decisions. But i will be honest, we almost decide everything by consensus, we rarely take votes. Isnt it the case that at least two big ten president s are epidemiologists or have expertise in public help . That is true. How about others who want to answer that question . Why are we working so hard . Im using the ac is an example. Why are we working so hard to maintain a fall football season if Virginia Tech is using has to postpone its first two games because of covid . I would like to weigh in. Its very simple. Its big money and its hard to pass up. Athletic directors and coaches have been pretty frank about that. One thing i will point out. As much as people like to think that a conference is going to do right or something somehow things are going to be okay, there was a survey put out yesterday finding that throughout all different divisions in the schools, less than half of the coaches and athletic staff are compliant with their own covid guidelines. Less than half. You see outbreaks all over the nation. You see game postponements and season postponements. No one is talking about anything that will fundamentally change that without some real enforcement that is uniform nationally. Theres nothing anywhere close to that. The other thing i will point out is they conferences arent enforcing anything. Even if the conference but south guidelines, pack 12 players were told that its impossible to enforce uniform guidelines within the conference across all schools. Thats basically how conferences have approached health and safety. They are very much ill equipped and pretty much unwilling to do what is right in terms of enforcement when it comes to covid and other health issues. My time is up. I will have a question or two that i will ask for the record, but i appreciate the witnesses. This has been very enlightening, thank you. Thank you senator kaine. Senator scott. Thank you mister chairman. Can you hear me okay . Yes we can. Excellent. Two chancellor blank. My question is a simple question. How do we preserve the amateur nature of collegiate athletics while at the same time allowing snap leads to benefit monetarily from the use of their name, image and likeness . Thats exactly, i think, why we are concerned with the need for some federal legislation involvement in this. There are several things i that i think we need to have in place in order to conserve collegiate athletics. Or we cannot let a hodgepodge of state laws be in place. It makes it almost impossible to compete on an even Playing Field. So some federal preemption of the state laws need to establish a National Standards. We need a narrow trust exemption so that any rules that we set, lets say limit people from doing name, image and likeness with a College Gambling group for instance, that we can enforce those groups of laws. I think those laws should explicitly indicate the importance of student athlete model that students are not in place. They are students as well as sports players. Finally, we have to address the timeline laws. Those sorts of things will indeed preserve the College Athletic model lost ill allowing some payments for name, image and likeness. Chancellor, just a followup to that. Do you believe that it would be necessary in that federal apparatus to have Certain Industries and areas of interest excluded from the list of places where a student athlete could use their name, image or likeness . I do think there have to be guardrails around theays in which soon athletes can go about the. There has to be transparent about who is paying them. They must be able to show, this is a regulatory process, that indeed they are receiving a reasonable payments for what our genuine services. This is in a pretext for simply passing money under the table. Whether that is something that you want to write into legislation is not clear to me. I think that is something that any body that would be charged with regulating this law would want to establish those sorts of guardrails. So you would suggest that the federal legislation and your vehicle would create a broad outline in having a governing authority may be empowered by that legislation to create a uniform standard which would be consistent with the philosophy that you are echoing . Just a followup to that, yes, absolutely. Thank you very much. Senator rosen, we will go to you. Can you hear me ok . Thank you. Weve been having problems with our computer lately, so thank you very much. Thank you, mr. Chairman, for holding the hearing. Im going to touch a little bit on its an important issue that is central to our discussion today. Due to the covid19 pandemic the new york times, there were 36,000 new cases of covid19 bringing a total number of cases for College Campuses near 90, 000, which is pretty high, if you ask me. Nearly half the conference schools declining to provide data on covid19 test for College Athletes chose not to disclose information. I find this lacks of transparency particularly alarming. I called on the ncaa to issue nationwide guidance on covid testing. Let me ask the witness here today, do you make covid19 information publicly available . We have a dashboard that we update every that provides information on our covid19 cases on campus with positivity rates, and how many tests we run. All the information on campus and theyre usually comments added to that to help people understand more about what we are seeing. And everyone else on the panel do you make the information publicly available . And id also like to your comments on what more can be done to make sure every college is transparent about their covid19 trusting in testing and tracing protocols. At ohio state we are also are in receipt of covid19 information on a daily basis. The information comes from our medical community, through the information, through the cdc, and student coaches are privy to that information every day. What about the parents and students . Are they privy to that information so they know it is a safe environment for them to be participating in . Its on the website, so anything thats on the website, to me, has the ability to be transparent, and as far as i know, we are transparent with our student athletes and our Parent Community because they are also very important members of our buckeye community. I appreciate that. I guess to all our panelist, i think about your entire Student Community and parents should be part of this conversation going forward. Its important that everyone, the professors, and all the people who work at the university need to make decisionsbased on the information that they find. Some wonder what you have to say about that. There are those who have no idea what the infection rate is, theyre keeping it quiet, and also, sometimes theyre not getting the test before going back into workouts. Many players are still in workouts, even if there arent actual competitions going on at some of these conferences, players are still working out and they have a lack of information about, even what the schools have been promising to do, and if they see violations, who are they going to call . There is no real enforcement. So what should we do to make this more uniform for our students and staff and everyone who might be talking to her College Campuses . When it comes to athletics, there needs to be National Uniform standards that the schools and ncaa would enforce for College Athletes. My time is up. Senator jones. Thank you for all of our witnesses. It really gets into a lot of different areas. For me, ive always believed that where we are headed, for some type of compensation is a Natural Evolution of what has now become a huge, billions of dollars of business in america, in the economy. I also think we are leaving out some things, such as the ability to transfer back and forth a little bit easier that these athletes enjoy right now. I would like to ask, i want to go in a little different direction on costs. When we hear a lot, and i think its appropriate to talk about the value that these athletes get from the universities. With their tuition, with a room and board, all of the things, that has a value. Ive seen some criticisms about this transfer pricing model. I will admit that im not an accountant, but theres been some criticism about some of these models are not really giving a full, accurate picture of the actual cost to universities for these athletes. We hear a lot of big numbers, and id like you to address the need for transparency in assessing this, because i think what were giving these athletes has to be weighed with what we ultimately do, but it needs to be transparent. Id like you to talk about the value and how you calculate that value and your institutions and where we need to be looking going forward. We say that heres all the athletes get as well as make it available to anyone else. The tuition scholarship is actually lower when you add in all of the coaching, the Mental Health, the insurance coverage, plus the value of an education. Its hard to cost some of those things out in a very clear way, so we to not to have the full cost all in, sadly. Ours is similar in that there is a clear dollar value given each year to the scholarship agreement that is signed annually by our student athletes, which at utah state is about a 36,000 value, that includes tuition, room, books, fees, all of those things. But in addition, there is so much more that is provided. The individual strength and condition coaching, the academic tutors and help with registering, all of those things, Mental Health counselors, nutritionist, all of those things that there is a value to, although we dont drill down individually and say, each student athlete gets two hours of strength and conditioning, individual training per week, or medical care thats provided by our Team Physicians and Sports Medicine specialists. So it is significantly more than that 37 thousand dollars. I think another really key factor here, and i will speak from personal experience, is that i can remember in my mid30s, which was quite a few years ago, talking to peers and colleagues, and they still had Student Loans that they were paying off. One of the great assets of being a collegiate athlete, not only do you get to play sports, but you get to do it debtfree free in a lot of cases for those on full scholarship, and again, the financial challenges that come up, 8, 10, 12 years down the road for those still paying Student Loans off, a lot of collegiate student athletes dont have that debt today. Thank you, the next question, this letter from the southeast conference commissioner, i as unanimous consent that we make this part of the record for the hearing today, if thats ok. So ordered. Let me ask you one quick question in the limited time we have. One issue for a lot of these conferences is liability. Liability for athletes that have gone before them that have not been able to benefit from this. Theres been different proposals there, and id like to get your thoughts on whether there are safe harbor provisions you would support from a players association, safe harbor provisions that would allow this to be implemented without subjecting the schools to liability from past athletes, or any kind of alternative. When time is up, so just very quickly, please, sir. I think when we get into these we talk about basic protections and legal rights, i dont think thats an appropriate measure. There needs to be some kind of restitution. Thanks, i may send that around, thanks to all the witnesses, i appreciate it. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you mr. Chair and thank you for the witnesses for being here to testify today. Im going to note before i get to my questions, im concerned that there continues to be an inconsistent approach across colleges, universities and conferences to holding sports during the covid19 pandemic. Some sports and conferences are not playing, while others are moving forward, even on campuses with some of the highest infections, and there are very double Safety Measures in place. The health and safety of College Athletes and their communities must determine when and how College Sports continues during this pandemic. My first question is for ms. Blank. As you know, decisions about how College Sports will proceed are being made as Infectious Disease experts continue to identify the longterm Health Impacts of covid19, even on young, healthy adults. One recent study found there are potential longterm risk to heart health, even for those who recover from covid19. Chancellor blank, i will ask you first, can you explain has the school considered the potential longterm Health Effects of covid19 on your athletes, and if so, how are you preparing to address these longterm effects for College Athletes who may become infected with the virus . Thank you for the question. We have definitely considered that. We have a group of medical experts who work closely with our College Athletes departments. The big ten has decided at this point to postpone the season. Part of its concern was exactly out of the unsettled situation that we were getting on myocarditis and heart related issues and a panel of experts from across our schools for all the medical schools that are consulting with the big ten on the decisions they are making. So our concern is that we do this according to the best science and best medical advice possible. Are you making plans to take care of Health Effects that could last for the rest of an athletes life if they play . Will the University System for instance be covering those costs are somehow acknowledging that the athletes take on the risk of playing during covid, have at least some responsibility for the longterm impact of the Health Effects . Yes, we provide insurance to all of our athletes, at a minimum we cover them for anything that happens to them in a number of cases, we covered more in a number of cases we have covered athletes much longer who have had injuries that they need help far beyond two years. Our expectation is we have someone with serious covid issues, if they contracted while they were playing, we would cover them. Will asked to respond in writing at a later time. I want to talk a little bit about concussions. Im introducing a bipartisan resolution recognizing friday, september 18 as concussion awareness day to raise awareness of the impact of concussions and traumatic brain injuries. According to the cdc, there are between them. 6 three. 8 million sports related concussions each year, and her current data may only account for a small percentage of the total instances of concussions. Concussions and traumatic brain injuries are concern for children, teens, and adults, including many College Athletes. We need to improve our overall understanding of concussions. What is your organization doing to raise awareness of the longterm effects of concussions and how should we consider these longterm health risks specific to College Athletes when we talk about compensation, including benefits Like Health Care and disability . First i would like to thank you for the work youre doing. Traumatic brain injury has gone unaddressed raising awareness and how it can lead to encephalopathy, they have committed suicide, and initially part of what we do, as much as possible, they have to be their own advocates. Athletic staff leaned on and pressure trainers to return players with concussions to the same game sometimes. Those are very important issues. Im running out of time, so i will followup in deference to the chair but my question was about what kind of longterm disability plans or planning should colleges and College Athletes engage in and financial obligations. So i will follow up on that. I want to thank the witnesses for a very illuminating hearing today, and the senators for their broad participation and good questions. Before we wrap up, senator murray, do you have additional comments or questions . I did want to ask a number of supplemental questions, i appreciate that, and thank you, mr. Chairman for the discussion today. As i said in my opening statement, weve had a long history of on this committee of conversations on important issues. College athletes are being exploited and coaches make millions but they dont. We must ensure that College Athletes get at a minimum a fair share of the revenue generated and also protected by health and Safety Standards and have as sex to help access to health care and quality education. Thank you, senator murray, and i want to thank you and your staff for working with us to create this opportunity today. We are coordinating with the Commerce Committee, which has principal jurisdiction over this issue and the comments in testimony today will be helpful to the Commerce Committee as it considers what Action Congress should take. Id like to ask one last question before we wrap up. Assuming that congress were to act to provide, or create an entity who had the job of writing rules for compensation for name, image, and likeness, who should that entity be . Chancellor blank . Id be willing to talk about a variety of options here. I think the worst choice would be to create another regulatory body. My first choice would be the ncaa, they have the most expertise. Government agencies that would be contracted to some the people on this committee, that would be fine, too. Senator alexander, im not sure which Governmental Agency this would fall under. What i am sure of is that as a coach, ive got enough challenges, and i dont want to navigate my way through a battery of those different laws because everything i do is challenging enough without having to try to figure out which perspective this law is going to affect our recruiting efforts, as well as coaches recruiting efforts. So i would just hope that the committee will consider something that is more uniform, something that is or a standard and central set of rules that can guide coaches through the next phase of this movement to hopefully create some manner of compensation for our student athletes. Mr. Hartwell, what entity should write the rules . I believe it should be congress and federal legislation that writes the rules, working in close conjunction with the ncaa, because the worst thing that can happen for collegiate athletics and for Prospective Student athletes is to have 50 different iterations at the various state levels of rules and regulations regarding nil. I think a consistent National Package in conjunction with the ncaa would be optimal. An entity should write rules, if there are rules to be written . I think if there was an entity at the core of the problem, the conflict of interest that schools have, its run primarily by Athletic Directors in terms of direction and there needs to be a neutral thirdparty. Players need to be primarily in and around and another big reason why we are here if we have that opportunity. Thanks to all four of you, i know youre busy and have responsibilities and youve given us a big chunk of time. My own view, which i stated in my opening statement, is that congress should act, and that it should authorize an entity to be safe from litigation to write the rules about name, image, and likeness. Our recommendation would be that entity should be the ncaa. The alternatives are much worse am i mean the alternatives are to create a new entity, and ive had some experience of watching new commissions created by the federal government. It takes a long time to do that, for one. Second, an entity like the federal trade commission have no expertise in Higher Education student athletes, and no responsibility really for Higher Education. I think the worst thing would be for the congress itself to write the rules. I mean, if anybody has watched 15 or 20 senators try to agree on a press release, imagine what 535 members of congress would be like trying to write detailed rules in the area. What congress should do in my opinion is authorize an entity to write the rules, and congress should do what congress does best, which is aggressive oversight, to put the spot on what is happening in and change whatever needs to be changed. The ncaa is not supposed to be run by Athletic Directors. It is supposed to be run by chancellors of institutions. If not, it should be reformed. While the ncaa is not perfect and it is controversial, any entity who writes rules for Intercollegiate Athletics is going to be controversial. My own view, as expressed earlier on this, is that while there are a number of things i would like to see the ncaa do, such as take increased Television Revenues and make sure they go for the benefit of student athletes, rather than higher salaries for coaches and administrative tasks. I dont really want to see individual athletes have an opportunity to profit while they are student athletes from their name, image, and likeness. They may want to be rewarded for their name, image, or likeness, but in my view, those dollars should be distributed for the benefit of all the student athletes at that institution. And if an individual athlete prefers to keep the money that he or she might earn from a name, image, or likeness, then that person should go professional. I think that is much better than jeopardizing the entire tradition of student athletes. I like the direction in which Major League Baseball and the ncaa have taken baseball players. I mean, programs like vanderbilt and virginia and others as well are really of minorleague quality. The vanderbilt Baseball Team is at least triplea most of the time, and some of its players could have gone directly from high school into professional leagues. They chose not to. They chose to take the undergraduate experience, a fouryear degree, the education from coaches, who are among the best teachers in the country, and the other support, and stay for at least three years and then go on to have highly successful professional careers. That direction, those sorts of choices seem to me to be right. It does not restrict any High School Students ability to be a professional. They can do that if they wish. If they want to be a student athlete for say three years in the case of baseball, then they must play by the rules of student athletes, and by that tradition, which is well ingrained and in which millions of americans have benefited from. The hearing record will remain open for 10 days. Members may submit Additional Information for the record in that time, if they like. Our committee will meet again on thursday, september 17 at 10 00 a. M. For a hearing on Higher Education. Has all of the witnesses know well, federal aid Application Form is filled out every year by 20 million families for six years. Senator murray and i and our committee and various members have been working to reduce the number of questions, decrease the flexibility so we can increase the number of students who take advantage of federal aid for Higher Education. Weve taken some important steps towards that. This hearing is about finishing that job. Thank you for being here today. The committee will stand adjourned. [gavel smashes] music