Transcripts For CSPAN3 Senate Hearing On College Athlete Compensation 20240712

That counts. Esn if yo want to vote yes by proxy, that doesnt count. So i had to be there in person. And we can now get started. Maria, are you ready . To orde all right, thank you so much, and this hearing will come to order. Uss the today, the committee convenes te discuss the issue of compensating student athletes for the use of their name, image, and likeness, nil. I welcome our distinguished panel of witnesses and thank f n them fores appearing. Today, we will hear from keith carter, viece chancellor for Intercollegiate Athletics for mississippi, my alma mater, where i lettered in zero sports. Ohio state university. Ms. Deion collar, professor of law and director of the center for sport and the law at the university of Baltimore School n of law. Mr. Greg sanke, commissioner of the southeastern conference, and mr. Eric winston, chief partnerships officer for one nl Team Partners, former president. Of the nflfl players associatioo and former nfl player and College Athlete. College sports are a rich part of the fabric of americas families, communities, and deepy states. Roo College Sports have long been deeply rooted in our culture. This is true in my home state ot mississippi. Where there are over 30 at institutions of Higher Learning that offer College Athletic programs. Like a lot ofm the mi places ac united states, College Sports is never far from the minds or ounn memories ofg mississippiens. R reliving and recounting the nce. Results of past contests is a common occurrence. For example, ole miss fans stiln talk about golsons game winning interception in the end zone to help ole miss knock off top ranked alabama in 2014. I was there. I remember where i was sitting in the stadiumum at the time. L and its still thrilling to er recall Morgan Williams overtime jumper to help the Mississippi State Lady Bulldogs end uconns 111game winning streak in 2017g we just needed one more win. College sports contribute so much more than triumphant or in heartbreaking memories. Sports help engrain in our te student athletes the values of fair play, sportsmanship, and en teamwork. Sports have helped lead societae change and they continue to help unite the country. College sports also offer stude valuable academic opportunities for students who might otherwisf have none. With these things in mind, i approach the topic of todays hearing withabundance of caution and reluctance, even skepticism and trepidation. We on thisll issue, Congress Might well heed the time honored the hippocratic oath, first do no harm. As theharm. Committee of jurisdn over youth amateur collegiate sd and professional sports, thisec Committee Seeks expert advice today. As we decide which direction we begin to take for congressional action on the issue of nil. Adop compensation in College Sports. More than 30 states have plan adopted, introduced or signaled plans to introduce legislation allowing for student athletes to be compensated for the use of their nil. I believe my colleagues en recognize the needces tamo avo differences among the states by having uniform set of standards by which our collegiate student athletes compete. A set of uniform standards that will strive for a level Playing Field. At the same time, we must nil recognize that any standards for the compensation of nil must also provide protections for icr students, schools, and associations. Particularly for the student athletes. Mindful of the law of unintended consequences. Human nature being what it is, we need to realize that some of our fellow mortals will seek and likely find loopholes for an hoe unfair advantage. Over the last four months, i have spent hours on theheco pho with University President s, athletic directors, and former m collegiate athletes to help understand the current collegiate student at lete. System and how to approach a National Policy on nil. As part of that process and in preparation for this hearing, i sent a list of 20 questions to l 50eg collegiate associations, we conferences, universities, sum colleges, and service academiesn we have t summarized those responses and put that information on the committees website. Without objection, i will entert that summary document into the record at this point. Ll hearing none, that will be done. In may, the ncaa board of Governors Working Group issued t report of student athlete compensation. The modernization of rules grae related tofu nil commercializatn and recommends to congress. We are grateful to have that input as well, and i ask unanimous consent to insert that into the record also. Without objection, it will be ht done. And almost every discussion i m have had,an the topic inevitabl turned to a look at the many ways this issue might be abused or go awry. Ty for example, will high school et athletes choose to attend a university in a large media market because they believe it will generate more nil value . How will universities or their supporters be prevented from manipulation of nil contracts in the recruiting process . Will businesses invest in student athlete nil rights to promote a legitimate business, or as an avenue to create access to athletes, coaches, and Athletic Programs . Will it be easier or harder for the star player on a team to put the team first, even when showcasing individual talent may increase nil income . Will nil result in a rise in student athlete transfers to universities in bigger advertising markets . G with how will third parties will contracting with student athletes be regulated and how ep will that impactli schools ability to insure compliance ans enforcement of ncaa rules . Is an 18yearold emotionally en and financially prepared to make all the choices required to enter into nil contracts . Udents what will be the impact of the students academic obligations . Will permitting compensation for nil further widen the gap wid between theen haves and the hav nots among institutions of Higher Learning . On. And what about the effect on title ix and womens sports . The list goes on and on. T steps let me single out senator moranc forommi taking the first steps this issue by holding a subcommittee hearing on nil he a earlier this year. Re t i know he shares with me the u sense of importance and urgency this issue widemands. I look forward to working with him and all of the members of oo the Commerce Committee as we rm move forward to seek a solution. Many questions remain. E i hope our committee will gain a better understanding of these complicated issues and the challenging challenges before uz by means ofe these expert r witnesses again. Let me again thank them for being here and recognize my her op dearsena friend and colleague member cantwell for her opening airman remarks. Thank you,th mr. Ankchairman thank you for that long and thoughtful statement and a a cee little bit of reminiscing about your own experiences. I consider myself a sports fan, and definitely a collegial sports fan, but certainly one that sides with wanting to have amateur athleticism and to makei sure that were keeping amateur athleticism, if anything, i feel like we should be doing more as a committee in our oversight of the violations of that athleticism and amateurism that occur all the time and mark me down as nott a fan of one and done, but somebody who really believes in the collegial system, as you said, of giving athletes an experience of leadership, teamwork, building all sorts ofof character that is hope that we can continue to preserve as we look at this legislation. And i want toei thankng our h e witnesses for being here today, too. I know you come from a breadth o and depth of ifishut experiencea these issues. I hope we have a chance to talkc about the Current Health care crisis as werere moving closer to the beginning of the academic oe year and know s that the pandem is not relenting, i want to headache sumake sure were putting into place e safeguards to protect our student athletes as we look forward to what the collegial environment might be this fall. R so ill have a chance to ask people about this. This issue of compensation for r student athleith is a complex tn one, as the chairman mentioned, with strong feelings on both te sides and growing legal battless in the courtrooms and state legislatures around the country. Its impossible to ignore the simple facts that these athletes do produce billions of dollars for the ncaa and member institutions and arent able to market themselves as other s athletes students would be, so y the status quo is especially jarring as we look at this ight nationalis reckoning on racial m justice and civil rights issues and want to understand the impacts of the nil on all athletes. So i look forward to the discussion and potential solutions that were going to a talk f about today. I am not a fan of an ncaa i antitrust exemption. I think that cautioning all momentum for change with this blunt legall instrument is both unnecessary and illadvised. Similarly, i oppose the congress fully deferring to the ncaa on s just coming up with the. Rules n name, image, and likeness. I think congress should not haia abdicate its role and i think the chairmans very thoughtful discussion and hard work on thit shows that we need to have some input and oversight to make sure that its done right. Y to t the chairman just articulated a long list of complexity to the s issue, which i very much appreciate his understanding and the delicate balance that so many institutions have already tried to achieve by complying with the rules that are on the books t today. And so i agree with the chairman that we dont want to see a new system in which vieolations woud occur because somebody sees a new avenue to promote a alance Competitive Edge in what is hopefully as balanced as we can get, but again, like i said, i think we should have more oversight on these issues. How can we find a solution that preserves both the character ofs College Sports while also ghts . Well ing athletes with deserved rights . S . So as i said, i believe in preserving amateurism and that r athletes would be able to grow and i looks forward to hearinge professor kollers comments on ss sho thisul issue and exactly how we can achieve this. I believe congress should take the time to get this right. T it must be an open process. Hundreds of thousands of curren. Athletes and millions of future athletes and their families are depending on it. And as the chairman said, this a is a long tradition. Its part of our culture, thee n institutions, these athletic events. And we dont want to turn them t into one more avenue of, again,a people just gaming a system on t behalf of the athletes and then leaving the athletes, again, without their own recourse. Oluts so i look forward to seeing this set of solutions that we can agree on and i hope that we cann also at some pointsu in time, mr. Chairman, look more closely at mechanisms to insure that as female athletes have the same opportunity to earn compensation as their male colleagues. Deserv i think this is an important n issue that deserves its own hearing and deserves its own focus andd hopefully we can get to that at some future date. So thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you very much, senator cantwell. And now, the written statements by all five of our witnesses stm will be entered into the record. In their entirety. We ask each witness to summarize their testimony in five minutes, and of course, mr. Winston will be joining us remotely. Eft en so well just begin at the left end of the table here and proceed down the table. Mr mr. Carter, you are recognized. Chairman wicker, Ranking Member cantwell, and the members of the Commerce Committee, good morning. My name is keith carter, and im the vice chancellor for Intercollegiate Athletics at the university of mississippi, orr referred to as ole miss. Heastern its an honor and privilege to represent our great university,d the southeastern conference, and other athletics directors and h athletes from across thean couny regarding name, image, and stify likeness. I would like to thank senator to wicker for inviting me to n as w testify today and to everyone on the committee for your interest and the attention as we look toy Work Together and answer your questions regarding this timely and critical issue for student athletes across the country, thi need for a federal legislation that provides a uniform standard for name, image and likeness pw nationwide. I believe it isis timeme for intercollegial athletes to find a pathway forward. Dealing with student athletes personal image and how a modelem could be potentially be implemented in a slibt and thoughtful and inclusive manneru it has been a vital part of my life since i was five years oldd played baseball and basketball and competed at the highest i level and fulfill a goal of completing myre degree. O be i w i wasiversi recruit the by nume schools but played at ole miss. W i enjoyed the student athlete tr experience. While thepractice schedule was , and class and study hall and competition and it experience shaped me into the person i am today. I noticed that my image and b presence grew as i improved as a player and as a my team became more successful. Was req more recognized withp campus and within theeara commu. Interview requests increased ano looking back there would have been some level of market valuea for myself and my teammates. If today the land scape has drastically changed. Whether it is social media or u endorsements, you could attend capitalize on the name, image and likeness. Aftere, i r finishing my basket career in europe i realized that i wanded to be back on a collegl campus working in an athletic o department. Being aw product of College Athletics and having a real life story of how much my experience prepared me for the feuture, i s felt a great obligation to give back. Coaches and professors and encea countless others mades a difference in my life. I wanted to useel myp ot experiv a student athletes to help other young adult men and women ten ge achieve their goals. Op i take pride in listening to student athletes. I often get questions about the opportunity to ben fwit from their nil in the same way that their nonathlete classmates do and the timing around any ously potential legislation. Veplex, what does this model look like . L it is very complex. But we have an opportunity to ne shape whatnc this could look li and ensure that unintended ur consequences do not cause long almo lasting ripple effects on our ability to support almost 200 athletes. And it is importanth state thae federal legislation to ensure that each state and therefore each university in the nation has a uniform framework that m continues to focus on education, and the unique appeal of the currentstud amateur model. Ntiall ensuring students remain students and not pay for play, and it is essential in my potential solution. In my opinion, the preferred nil system involves Third Party Compensation oath where colleges or universities are not allowedl to pay for opportunities for student athletes. T another new important component nil are kept out of the recruiting process. Absent sufficient regulatory framework, nil could be used asl improper inducements that could deter student athletes from booe pursuing a particular opportunity a University May offer him or her. Essen boosters or offering opportunities is also essential. We comeme before you today to speak to the need for federal legislation for this much needed opportunity. Our goal is nationa to work witl put forth a National Framework t and first and heforemost protecl the interest of all student athletes, both male and female, safeguard the recruiting procesm and ultimately provide equal opportunities for all student ta athletes tome benefit from thei nil in the very same manner as their nonathlete classmates. Thp thank you again for this ould b opportunity. Ultimately we believe that more can and should be done for our student athletes but in a way ct thatin continues to promote loof education to get consistent opportunities for all. I look forward to working toward a solution and enhancing the rmn lives of our student athletes in the druture. Thank you. Thank you,elcome mr. Carter. Dr. Drake, welcome. Thank you very much. And good morning. Ht. I had a green light. I was thinking go. Good morning, mr. Chairman. Good to see you today and Ranking Member, good morning. On part of the Ohio State University where i was y introduced as the chairman hichi emeritus which is the case for d about ten a half hoursuc so i h appreciate my newbe short lived status. But i appreciate your interest in the important issue of compensating student athletes related to name image and likeness. As a medical doctor and a 20 year member of the National Academy of medicine i have testified before as a subject g hearing expert and im gratefule torest to do so again. In spring 2019 interest ti heightenedon t with the introduo of federal and state legislation permit students to be compensated for their nil. Federal and state Legislation Working Group in may 2019 to examine this issue and develop h recommendations. In octobere oup 2019 the ncaa n ofdati governors unanimously uls supported the working groups g recommendations and began the process of modernizing rules to allow students participating in athletes the opportunity to benefit from thee use of their abili nil. Lined in my testimony, by th the associations ability to move forward is hampered by w three factors that we encourage you to focus on today. Specifically, were asking for your partnership to preempt state bills on nil with different provisions and start dates so there is a uniform standard and approach. Two, to project universities ane conferences from antitrust litigation that affects our thr, ability to thwart the evolving s needs of student athletes and three, to protect amateurism in College Sports that is guided by long standing values of education, opportunity, well being and fairness. Nize the id like to recognize that the attention that members of which committee and others in congress are giving to the issue of nameo image and likeness in collegealg athletics. I like to recognize an ohio ofei state alumnis and football issu player for his support of student athletes and the work hes done around this issue. Together we could enact and implement legislation that will provide a uniform name, image and likeness approach. I believe this action will result in favir and uniforms fon all athletes and protect studenu athletes. Thank you. , i thank you. Bet, and our next witness, i bet, likes to have her name yonounced correctly. So color. You are recognized for five minutes. Chairman and Ranking Member r cantwell, my name is deon colort and im a professor ofe law at the university of baltimore. Im a former athlete and the yf proud parent of an Ncaa Division 3 athlete. Thank you for inviting me here to speak to you. Buil ford a Decades Congress and cou have deferred to the ncaa to ats build a model for intercollegiae sports thats is grown into a multibillion dollar industry. In the ncaa calls this the american hodel. Courts are calling law. It a violation of antitrust law. Fins today the ncaa purports to seek legislation to preserve what itr defines as amateurism. In realty it seeks to see the ei profits that a model yields. This committeee furt should not moved. The action sought by the ncaa m would cause further harm to athletes but to the entire injut College Sports enterprise. It is a model breaking under the way of its own injustice. Theed under decades of excessest abuseshe per tated under the gue are wellknown and at times havl beenud the subject of th congressional hearings and ven reports including the reports senator murray released last ap year. The unfairness is more apparent considering it is black men t often from socioeconomic nistra backgrounds that provide the labor that pays white coaches ,v and administrators bloated above market salaries. Issue bu the ncaa model therefore is not. Just an economic issue, it is a social justice issue. Today the ncaa and College Sports are asking for more than deference, theyre asking for a level of insulation from the free market rules that nearly iy every other american industry must follow. Any be granting this extraordinary s request is not at all necessary to preserve the many benefits that intercollegiate sports provided. There is no urgency presented be this issue. Could while federal solution to the a name,nc image likeness image coh bere useful and the model are n threatened by state legislationu in addition, if any guardrails are necessary, the ncaa should not be the ones to craft them. Er athletes can, like other students on campus, enter the a free market and strike deals fol the use of their name, image and likeness. The ant only guardrails needs a thosefrom imp provided by federe antitrust law to prevent the ncaa from imposing unreasonablen restrainted on trade in the name of amateurism. Rather thag than seeking ld cra protection from congress to ortt impose economichl restraints on athletes, the ncaa should crafte rules that better support ble to athletes health, s safety and we being. If athletes are able to sign waivers to facilitate return to practice during a Global Health pandemic, they should be permitted to make deals to market their name, image and likeness. And wethre assert that nil righ could threaten the gains made by title nine. Le ix. This is surely not the case. In fact, the rights would promote and not undermine gender equity. The member institutions should instead focus on title nine compliance, something yet to be fullythe nc realized. Most oft importantly, an antit exception is not warranted here. The ncaa asserts that an exemption ispr necessary to el. Vague unsubstantiated predictions of harm to the amateurism model. Estric antitrust cases have documented that the ncaa overly restrictive rules produce real harm to athleteses and the free market an antitruststs exception wou serve to shield an industry that has struggled to demonstrate thatat its competitive restrais are fully necessary to produce y College Sports. Finally this committee is well d aware that s unchecked powered a sports regulators too often it leads toed sta cultures that hac athletes and threatens the gameb themself. I applaud the committee for thes address these issues. Most recently with bills such as the equal pay for team usa act. Through the important leadershis of this committee, congress haso taken significant steps to. S. Protect athletes and restore ty confidence in the u. S. Olympic movement and it has the ate sp opportunity to do the same for intercollegial sports. In conclusion, in nearly every context wherere athletes have accessed fundamental fairness , and equality and health and well being, ncaa have countered with dire predictions that supportm t itself would be predicted and the material harm never materialized. Athletes rights haved popula strengthened the integrity and i popularity of sportsat and i hai no doubt thatr allowing lik intercollegial athletes the right to mark their name, imagen and likeness without unnecessary restraks by the ncaa will do the same. I thank you and i look forward to your questions. Thank you, very much, commissioner sankey, you are recognized. Cantwel thank you. Of t and distinguishedhe members of e committee. On behalf of the southeastern conference, i ant pate the student athlete name and image and likeness. My name is greg sankey and ive served since june of 2015. That is part of a 33year career in College Athletics including work on a Small Division three w campus inin upstate new york. Small Division One Football playing inn nacodoches, louisiana, and universities in texas and louisiana and now with the s. E. C. T my objective so it share the iu important view that we must get this name, image and likeness issue right. In order to ensure that we are n able tod provide opportunities for many young women and young men both now and in the future. And that we preserve the characteristics of College Athletes that make it unique, l appealing and important to so many in our country. In realty, this issue presents unique and challenging complexities that could be misunderstood, and may result in those unintended consequences f that have been identified. And so i offer the imple followr your consideration. Tudent first, as we implement the nil changes, our student athletes must remain students and not become employees of college and universities. We must continue to em fammize the additional responsibilities upon an already busy schedule. Second, we must not allow College Athletics to evolve into a pay for play system. This means prohibiting colleges from paying sities student athletes directly or indirectly for their name, image and likeness rights. The california nil law scheduled to take effect in 2023 allows un just that or Even University headrchase s coaches to purchast athletes name and image and s ot likeness rights and provide that compensation to members of their team once they enroll. That is simply a pay for play model. Third, the reality is there is e no draft process in College Sports. Which means we must keep nil activity out of recruiting. And in practical term this is i means federal legislation must include boosters frommage usingm name, image and likeness o compensation as ar for recruit deucement for High School Students or for College Students contemplating a transfer to another institution. Fourth, we need to enact meaningful protections for student athletes. The reality is outside parties n will have great interest in taking advantage of student athletes who lack experience ins making business decisions, selecting agents, determining advisers and other experience in evaluating whether a deal is too good to refuse. College athletes need the uniform system for regulating su name, image and likeness activities as 50 different stata laws will not support National Competition or National Championships in a fair and effective manner. Multiple universities and multiple states need to understand one clear standard n forne evaluating their name, imc and likeness opportunities. And wee need protection from claims and liability arising from the implementation of new n nil standards and from continual challenging to the validity of ncaa rules which we have discussed in a nor lengthy manner and my response to senator wickers questions in my written testimony. We seek protection from claims s related to implementation of ori federal legislation to create opportunities for studentto athletes. We seek to work with this from community and others in congress to provide a path for student k athletes to benefitey from namet image and likeness inhl a way tt will preserve the key tenants of College Athletes and create a uniform standard and protect , a stakeholders from potential vele liable. In 33 years of working in College Athletics ive learned more things but at the top of en the list is were not perfect, s yet we do some incredible things in College Sports. R we providepublic opportunities. We provide education for young people. We engage our public. Wegu celebrate the achievement d we guide students as they transition from adolescence to adulthood. We do all of that very well. I look forward to working with you to continue these successes and thank you for the opportunity to have this mu conversation. Sion thank you very er. Much, commissioner. And now remotely, we are joinedt by mr. Eric winston, sir, you could hear us . Wicker yes, i can hear, you senator. You are recognized and we appreciate you beingng with us. Thank you. Good afternoon mr. Chairman and Ranking Member and members ofitn committee and thank youd for f inviting meth today. To attend g me virtually for this important discussion on economic rights n andfl problem solving. I join you not as a former collegeathlet and nfl football a butro helping everyone in colle athletics come up with a fair and equitable system around the nameme image and likeness of colleget the athletes. The conversation is one im o familiar with from the university of miami in the early 2000s. When i was at miami, the other bowl was sold out for every game, we played in front of massive television audiences, a and were coveredtten by the nato media every day. That attention shined a spotlight on the program, the popularity of the school and generated large sums of revenue. It went through the roof. Broadcasters and sponsors spent millions annually to be part of the experience. All of the positive things were a result of the players and the. Teams success. Away from the bright lights and success of the Playing Field, however, was a far different story. That side involved players like me struggling to maintain a full schedule of classes while balancing requirements for daily training, rehab, and preparation to remain at an elite level. Man while people are more aware today of the challenges and s, demands of competitive athletics, there is still a notion in some corners that were merely lucky to get a scholarship. The reality is that there is very little time for scholarship. In fact, the more successful wec were,e the greater the pressur and demands. Ship most of us knew life would be i Something Like whend we signed up, nonstop and pressure backed but what we didnt know is that our effort to win games in d packed stadiums and drive media and maximize tv contracts and raise booster money and create y revenue to the school and the conference and the ncaa we would hardly have enough money to pay for basic Living Expenses. We received a scholarship check for the months that we were toa uclan class. Ke ten checks. S. Diff i was forced to say a fraction of every check to make up the difference to pay for my expenses. The stipend was was hardly enoud cover expenses and every month every dollar was stretched. Have changed since ransit then College Athletes still faca these issues. Ed car after school i transitioned to the nfl and worked hard to have a 12 year career inin the nfl including a six year tenure as the nfl p. A. I understand the group of commercial activity and how everyone could benefit from revenue generated. Pa from that irtne led to one Team Partners because i know the inequitieses during my college days are not fixed and i want to be part of that solution. Fro the group rights of male and female athletes across prosporte fromn the nfl, mlb, nba and u. Womens soccer and rug by and we believe this is the first step into the nil space and low hanging fruitg our which would implea. Edie seamlessly. Nce our team has the expertise and resources to maximize the or opportunities for both the athlt athletes and the institutions hy for which they play. A group is a win win for su everyone involved. As students could benefit from new Revenue Streams such as video games and pocket money to ease the worries about where the next meal is going to come from and the fans could benefit. Re novation in this space is. Important and change in athletics is already here. We could or we could Work Together to create a fair and o equitable system that puts the o headli headlines back where they y belong. Athletes are driving theou f business already so we need to get on board and support them. Thank you for your time and i look forward to your questions. Thank you very much, mr. Winston. And thank you all. And now well begin the series of questions and well use the five minute round. Mr. Carter, you attended ole miss just a few years before mr. Winston attended miami, is that correct. Correct. And he listed a pretty tough set of circumstances, little time for study, coaches grilling us in the film room for hours and hours, very sketchy allowance for expenses and having to check the bank account to see if you could pay for Living Expenses only receiving those checks ten months out of t thehat year rather than 12. Is that something that you recognize in your collegiate career and has that changed sir since that time . Yes, sir, that is a great question. And i would agree with eric on e that from a standpoint of when i was in school, there were times when you didnt have a lot of oh moneyip in your pocket. T. Yourures scholarship check, a l those things, you had the essentials, you had your room nu and board paid for and you had , lot of things done, but the ext extracurricular activities, lae sometimes you dont have the money to pay for those. Our changed a things have lot since i was at ole miss in the 90s and with unlimited meals and cost attendance checks that were implemented three or four years ago. I do feel like there were c [ inaudible question ]. Os eacht y institution basica decides how much of accost of attendance they want to pay andt we pay you will to the full es, amountt for each student athletes. We think were providing a lot of resources and were here today to discuss opportunities to providede potentially more resource which i think is a be greattt thing. But i would say without a doubt, student athletes now are in a be much better place from a lot of] the things that winston mentioned than when he and i were in school. You provided a list of en benefits for a Scholarship Athlete at the university of mississippi in your written testimony. What sch does the average ole m basketball scholarship recipient receive today . What is the entire compensation package . Well,n outof for an out of student, a nonresident student. Like you were . Yes. Exactly. Youre looking at 42,000 for. The tuition and all of the things that go along with cost e of attendance there. Weve calculated that there is probably another 25,000 that would go to a student athlete on an annual basis based on whether it be medical situations, academic services, strength and conditioning. A lot of the things thatonal fo example these studentswe f were professional athletes they have to pay for. And so we feel like that the total number att ole miss at ou0 full ride head count student athletes get is around 68,000 s to 78,000. Ru and whatmost about, is theree provision for most universitiesn for daytoday Living Expenses,a being able to run downtown and s, sir eat at a restaurant, things like that . Ce yes, sir. I think that, again, there are t certainly the fact that a lot nr more. Meals are provided now, things that maybe again when mr. Winston and i were in school that we had to pay for out of scholarshipip check. There are incidental meals. Tes, there are unlimited meals. There are snacks. Abilit anywhere they turn around on ouy campus in our athletic ows them facilities, they have an opportunity to grab food. Er which thing allows them to have money in their pocket to spend on other things. Years as i mentioned, three or four nd years ago when the full costanc attendance option was availablea that is allowing in the state of mississippi it is about 4,800. Year. Udent athlete per so more money in their pocket li and obviously were hereke to tk about doing more. Th like over the ur stu years weve done a lot to s experience of our student athletes and i certainly know that it has been a good thing. What your Graduation Rate among Scholarship Athletes in ole miss. Were very high. Nor were up in the 80 percentile which is higher than the normal population. We placed 100 of our graduatiny seniors as they left our institutiohl thereetes are so many resources availablechairm to student athle besides the scholarship itself. What is that figure in the s. E. C. , mr. Sankey. . It will it vary. So well have programs or universities at or near 100 Graduation Rate and will trail down into the 80s. The lowest off the top of my head is in the high 70s and that doesnt include that is a ovt sixyear window analysis that doesnt include post eligibility returns which over the last five years were in the hundreds of opportuniti opportunities provided. Thank you very much. Senator cantwell. I couldnt agree with you e more on protecting amateurism s. And we should do be doing more oversight and not less. T of d i feel like there is a lot of l things that happen that dont get the bright light of day shown on them and so we should take that opportunity. What how do you think that name, image and likeness and yoh amateurism could Work Together s and what kind of oversight do t you think is necessary to make sure that thehl students are the athletes have the rights independently protected . Senator, i think name image m and likeness could work with the amateurism model but where i of part company withth some of the ncaain suggestions is who shoul be in the business of enforcing that and writing the restrictions. And soreport what the ncaa boar governors report is asking for is a blank check to the ncaa too write the restrictions. I think that either congress could write restrictions on nil and il use into legislation or some have proposed an independent commission in charge of that. Rest so i think theri blank check to the ncaa to come up with restrictions on nil use is suspect given thatat all of the terrific benefit mrs. Carter ri talked about that student athletes now receive, those i benefits were the result of antitrust litigation. N. Indepe so i think it could Work Together but i think we need an independent body coming up with the necessary safeguards so to speak and enforcement. And how do you protect the athletes on the amateurism issue in and of itself . Ect so,at there are a lot of way to protect athletes in amateurism system. If youre talking about name, no image and likenessol and you cos have prohibitions on schools, you could have prohibitions on s using the deals as recruiting b enhancements. You could write itcaa ha into legislation or have an independent commission do it. S but againin what the ncaa has fi asked for through the board of i governors report is a far more s expensive definition of that and i think that is unnecessary. I mentioned this issue of the pandemic. And so dr. Drake, will you allon students to refuse to compete or participate in college mandated activities because of covid . Cour absolutely. The participation is voluntary. So why am i seeing this thing called the buckeye pledge, signing the waiver before participating in thank you, say senator. The let me say they did not sign thf liability waiver. That is not true. S it is a pledge that all of our l students are going to beth rotet assigning to basically follow the Good Public Health guidelines that you and i and everyone should follow to help protect us against this against the pandemic. In fact, the guidelines are pl exactlysa parallel to the cdc s issued, guidelines that came ouf yesterday and that pledge said youll wear a mask while you in public and wash your hands and keep six feet of distance and if you become ill report to the plr people that allow you to be nt protected. So purch aas Football Player coul say i dont want to participate in this fall season and not thi . Any of his compensation or it yes, the scholarship, in thep pledge, it said this will not affect your scholarship, whether or not youit participate. Is a pl okay. It is written to say that. So it is a pledge not a waiver which i would not support. Okay. Thank you. Miss coaler, do you have any comments about this. I dont want to question then intent behind the buckeye edge, i know we need to have some collective understandings of health. As a lawyer and law professor the buckeye pledge and i dont f want toto focus on that too muc i think the university of ty tha tennessee has a worded release c ofho liability that deeply concerning and other schools do as well but things like the canr buckeye pledge which are important for Public Health as could cross over and be used a later oun down the ass lineum tn assumption of the risk. Okay, thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator thune. Thank you. Mr. Sankey, would your to add Conference Today bere able to , comply with several state laws seeking to address the issue of name image and likeness. It would be difficult and confusing and we have one in oua region knowing the competition within my 11 states, i could foresee quickly the other ten, oneupping etch oth oneupping each other. Is there anybody on the panel that does not believe there is a standard . Nyon e nnationwideot no. I know ms. You kind of sugge mrs. Color, to the extent that others are advocated. I think it is desirable, certainly. Mr. Drake, when dr. Emmert testified before the committee this year he stated that he envisioned each individual division having some degree of control over the rules to alaw athletes to benefit from their s name image a and likeness as lo as they follow the largest set of parameters set by the ncaa 2 board of governors. Is that how you envision the rule working. They have different rules on scholarships and things so there could be modifications to distinguish the divisions 1, 2 and 3 but an over arching framework that guides this. As those rules are being set, what steps are each of the respective divisions taking to make sure that fair and balances competition is between the larger and smaller schools. What is happening now is each e bo division isard working on its recommendations for the detailst of the policy that will come to the board of governors in october. And those are the kind of details that theyre focusing on now. All right. T. It is been suggested that there should be a limit on the amount of funds potential nil sponsor could offer a student to protect students from inappropriate predatory actions. Do you all agree with that . Limits . Okay. Well, letlet ever lets lets answer, including mr. Winston. Would each witness support a limit on the amount of nil compensation a student athlete could receive. I dont support a limit on i the amount of compensation. Unts coy see a need for common sense limits on the ways that these deals come to be. So theyre not recruitment endeucements. That issenato your question. Yeah. Letsense let the other thre members answer. Dr. Drake. Senator. You, i just have common sense limits so you couldnt get 50,000 for whatever. Just common sense agreementsism think i agree with mrs. Coaler. S i was t waitingo to see how answer was going to play out. I do believe there needs to be a structure around how this is deployed, some of which have been identified. Im not envisioning a numerical limit. I think sources are important to consider for limitations and the nature of those relationships that might be in legislation should be considered. Ive had conversations generalli about a numerical limb iit and t is not the focus of our thinking at this point. Okay. And i wouldt value in just add that we talked a lot about market value and giving ourso student i athletet the same opportunity as value nonstudent athletes so i think that you would refer back to the market value and certainly some common sense approach and the structure needs to be there but the market value is where we would fall back to. And mr. Senator, ill jump in here as well. Yeah, i dont see a need for a limit per se. Obviously when we think about common sense, thought processes. Aroundd how thats paid out or l restrictions around it,er i wou echo what mr. Carter and ms. Coaler have said on this go already. Anddah senator ead thune, is some of your time. So you go ahead and take another two or three minutes. That is all right. That is a good that is good e to get that answer on the record and in more specific terms. Let me ask you, and this is forh any of you, whether you believe that sho rules around name imagd likeness should center around llege recruitment and will it affect the College Recruitment o process . The willand thpart, it absos has theer potential. Sp and that is why in my comments reserve the need to address the issue specifically. And one, if this activity is around recruitment it is simply an inducement and we lose the conversations that occur around geography and the nature and support of the program and it becomes transactional. And i think that is a legitimate concern we should have. Guard the difficult part is to createt whether it is guardrails, fencing, framework for that limitation within legislation and thenr the monitor that activity in a way that eliminates or reduces it from recruiting and it is not just an issue for High School Students t butud i think what will be a frr environment for transfer student athletes, that same type of recruiting activity transfers to the College Level under an unstructured name, image and likeness atmosphere. Ete my if i may, im the son College Athlete, my father went to college on a college scholarship, wouldnt have goneo go college otherwise because he ust wa wants to play football, notnt because he wants to go to college and then he graduated from college which he had never thought of it and then got a medical degree and practiced medicine until he was 99 and so it changed our life and my divin familys life and so the pathway was important. And im the father of a divisioe one athlete now graduated and a professor at niu. I remember he heard from 300 ert colleges when he was in high school and was recruited in t tb differente states and made a decision on the college he wanted to go to and it turned an outd to be a wonderful process for him. Verybe affirming for him and ga him the ability to look across p the country andro pick the best match. And i think that is a great part of this process. Youre not drafted and pointed to one team. That p i have a nephew who played in the nfl for six years and i watched that process as well. It is quite a different process than the recruitment process. So i think that is something that needs to be protected. And weve seen with the laws passed already that people in those states have been referring to statete of florida in ome particular, referring to floridu now as a place that students athletes ought to come because of the nil laws that would take place in florida before others so this one upsmanship is which already and that is one of the sion biggestt concerns. You have a school that is mid major conference schools, division 2 and nia, is how it could affect the ability of som of those really quality schools, many of which have a tracted athletes from the region, for many of the benefits that yall haveve talked about if this becomes a money issue, how that could impact the recruiting process and i think that is something that we have to be careful of and aware of as we work through this issue. E 30 and it is come a long ways. My dad was a division one ahlete and played in the university of minnesota in the y late 30s and 40s and hes a hundred years old and he think i is the only athlete still alive from that when he was r competing in the bigig ten. But at that time, the idea of a scholarship was you worked for your room and board. He worked at a fraternity to ret make hisis board. Hat this so that was it has changed ae lot and its great that the athletes have the opportunities but we want to make sure that is done in a way in a doesnt create a lot of potential for bad things to happen. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator thune. My dad was a jury College Athlete back before world war ii and it indeed he will tell you at age 96 that it changed his oo life. Senator intester, youre next. Im guessing you ran across country in college. Pretty close. Ill tell you my dad was a farmer and a beef cutterrst of lived to bee darn near 89 so it. Thing. Od hey guys, first of all i want to thank all of you for testifyingb i appreciate it. We need to stay in touch on this issue. I agree with senator thune, it could not give advantages to thn money conferences so to speak, if it does, we havent done our job. But more importantly it has to be fair to the athlete and i st think that is why were all here. My first question is for mr. Sankey. Mr. Sankey, you could briefly tell me the differences you see between the florida law and the ncaa proposal on nil . Well, i think the challenges withth what the ncaa put together right now is it is principlebased where floridas law is operationalized. Ecti from myve perspective the floriw law is pretty effective. I think it is an improvement over what youve seen out of california. We obviously through our university had an opportunity to be in conversationup about that law. I think the challenge for the ncaa working group report is how to actually legislate the rules. To legislate the rules in a way thatat would with stand legal scrutiny and one that would satisfy the extent, for e instance, of the California Law which i never thought was possible. So my basis foror believing there needs to be a federal law is d that these differences are significant and in particular the effective day of the florida law being next summer. Ner. It is a great significant and to need to move this along in a tsf efficient manner. And this needs to be a nationwide law, any law that we have, there has to be a so you know the rules of the road for every state you are recruiting. From my perspective, florida did a pretty good job. They cant preempt other state laws or deal with the legal issues ive identified today. The agent oversight is a concern still from that law. Ral law. And i think that is one of the challenges that would be preseno even w with a federal law, is h do we oversee and hold agents or representatives accountable to standards in the right sort of fashion in realtime. Got you. Y well when senator moran had thea hearinglk early on, a few month. Back. About catastrophic injuries. Mr. Sankey, this is for you. Do you think that if we do something on nil that that woule prevent, are you asking us to re prevent us from doing anything on an injury fund for injured at athletes . No,h not at this time. On im not familiar with that exact conversation. I know of the fund. If fact as a conference we explored Disability Insurance bi and loss of value and i guess what im asking is if webill do a bill on nil t is a national bill, you do not see that as preempting congress from doing something in some other area to help athletes i outside of nil, for example injuries . Ill do the dangerous thing which is to say, no, i dont. But i dont know enough of the details to be an if expert at this point. I wont react to that negatively at this moment. That is good enough for me. U mrs. See coaler, do you see any issues that need to be part of a compensation discussion . Well, i think weve discussed the issues in terms of compensation but i think what t needs toh, be part of the conversation is really athlete d health and safety and well being and national standards. Y in that area as well. So i think that is part of what my testimony was, that we shouldnt be so rushed to simply move on nil, that we forgot andt congresss held hearings on thicks Like National standards for treatment of concussions and heat stroke and sports medicine. We have thousands of approaches as to health care because of tho decentralized model. F as you look for a national i solution and work toward a National Solution on nil, you a. Not forget these other important issues. Mrs. Winston, i appreciate your career in tampa houston mostly. And cincinnati. And i dont think you weigh near what you did back in the day. What i wanted to ask you is, is the schedule that you laid out, does it include much for tudent academics. I have heard this from other athletes. If youre a scholarship student, that your first obligation is to that sport and it is just the nature of the beast. Im not being critical of ll college. What im saying is that is rt thatev pretty much it . Football comes first in your case or basketball or cross mick country or whatever you might be and academics fill in the gaps . Yeah. I always somewhat joke that i was an athletic student, not a student athlete. Listen, it is a tough schedule. It is somethingco that i think understand from coming from high school especially if youre at a Big High School program, there is not a lot of time for an extracurriculars either. It doesnt make it okay, but i think it is an understanding that youre right, you have a study hall until 9 00 and you go to bed and then you get up at 6 00 a. M. The next day and you start it again, right. Sed t and that is something that sc unfortunately quite frankly, we get used to. Some guys really thrive in thate structure to be completely frank. But at the same time, youre right, it is a complete balancing act every day. Thank you, senator tester. I just need to get from mr. Winston his college groupup licensing proposal. Just so i could take a look at it and see yeah. Im happy to send it. Thank you. Yep. Thank you senator tester. Senator cruz. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Ou, n thank to you each of the witnesses for being here and for your good work. C there is a lot of reasons People Choose to come to texas and one of them is to play sports. And in texas, we take our sports very seriously. Indeed espn still ranks as the greatest National Championship h game ever. St the game in 2005 when the Texas Longhorns and vince young stunned usc and the Heisman Trophy winner reggie bush and ill tell you heidi and i were at that game in the rose bowl and i for one agree with espn, that there is never been a gamea like it. Texas is a home to 53 colleges and universities. Whose student athletes compete at the ncaa level. The 23 are division 1. Of those 23 division one schools, 12 are in the pac12 and the s. E. C. O four of the six are right now t the reigning National Champions in at least one sport. One of the challenges of this issue that each of you all are considering is how will it impact competitiveness between bigan schoolsd th and wealthy s and those that may not be as big or wealthy. Texas is home to a number of schools that are not in the e power five. For example university of houston, a phenomenal basketbale school and five slamma jamma was as great of a collegiate program, yeah, im using it as an opportunity to revel in old memories, g memories. Get to the point. But the university of houston is in the american athlete con dr. Conference. Dr. Drake, in your opinion, should the ncaa determine an nil policy that will apply to all members schools and how do you e avoid giving additional advantages to large and wealthy programs. Well, thank you, senator. That is one of the concerns in the nil con program. Issues of the large wealthy at programs, versus programs in te rural areas, et cetera and these are the devilish details being worked out to try to get as muct parity as we speak but the ideag is to try to move forward to give more opportunity to student athletes without disadvantaging institutions unnecessarily, but the focus owe the student athletes. It seems to me that if the ao ncaa g is going to consider thi initiative, that two Guiding Principles ought to be looked wo to. Number one, fairness. Put a being fair to student athletes and student athletes undoubtedly put enormous time and energy and dedication and a great many of those student athletes are not going to go on to a profession career. Andlot of fairness is certainly important. A whole of revenue is being at g competitiveness. I think [ technical difficulties ] wont significantly alter it toi just draw all of the money and power and a half of schools and disadvantage the others. How is the ncaa accounting for y both of thoseou principles, fairness and preserving im competitiveness. Well, thank you,s. Again, ty for senator. Fairness is s s extraordinarily important to us. The opportunity for student athletes is extraordinarilyorta important. You mention veryry important point. We at the Ohio State University haveetable about 1100 ncaa 2 at so when we think about the name, image and likeness of individuals, it would be a handful. We i think it is t a few of them would be in that category. And we think very much about what happens to the other thousand plus athletes that we n have. My wifed and i have them over for teams over for dinner and have been doing this for 15 years and we get to meet our student athletes and talk about their experiences. It is a wonderful to hear what their experiencing going through and i will say that i was also O Medical School professor for years and debate an of admissio my medical school and i would look at the student athletes grades as they came in, if it is a basketball player im going to give them credit for the winner because theyre playing games and me trying to be smart as the son of a College Athlete, what i noticed as often as not, they would have better grades and test scores during the time they were in season. Elped a because the discipline of working or i surmise working a through whatgrea they were doin helped a lot. So we think this is great opportunities for the student athletes and want to make sure that we maintain that fairness. And so the three divisions are working on rules to be able to implement in a way that allows i that competitiveng advantages t stay as fair as possible while providing opportunity for student athletes across the board. Thank you. Thank you, senator cruz. Senator rosen joins us remotely. Well, good morning, everyone. I hope you could hear me okay. Youre great. Thank you. Tnes sose thank you mr. Chairman, Ranking Member cantwell, to alls of the witnesses for appearing i herec. Today. Higher educations has gone through a major upheaval througc the start of the coronavirus pandemic. School online closures, forcing universities and colleges to move Classes Online and cancel all of our wonderful sporting oo events. I thinkrs we each of us, senato cruz, we all have some good teao memories would seal there touk about that when we could get together at lunch but we love our College Sports forto sure. But as College Athletes begin t. Return tor campus for voluntary. Training, covid is on everyones mind. There are reports of College Athletes testing positive for the coronavirus. It is although the ncaa 2 a has left it up to individual schools to decide how to implement health and safety policies. So the lack of the unified ssponse from the ncaa may result in what we see playing u out innt the states. A patch work of mandatory and voluntaryst guidelines potentiay resulting in spikes in transmission of the virus and in some states and some schools and not in others. And to some colleges tests strt students every week and others only when you have symptoms and so we need a strategy generally for the coronavirus. Where we need a 50 state st strategy, oneat for our whole country, not a 51 state it strategy. We have to have a snationwide approach. Egy fo so for division 1 athletics, it seeps advisable to have a one School Strategy for all of the 353 schools when we kbats the ar virus. So dr. On drake. Does the nc 2a plan to acti participate in all colleges and universities. This is under discussion actively on a daily basis and well talk about this later on in the week. I certainly support that. But you have used your oversight powers in the past in addressing Sexual Assault so i believe in extreme cases in such as matters of a global pandemic, it shouldnt that the nc 2 a should provide a nationwide framework. Not all schools have the resources to develop this and we want to protect the health and safety of all of our student we athletes. T they are our children. And we need to be sure that if a there is any long lasting effects of this virus, we dont want to expose them to a life long Chronic Health disease. And so do you know so far if this lack of a uniform guideline, if theyre impacting peoples decisions to come back toto that school . No, i couldnt answer that. I will say that the policies, ed because it is a 50state organization with 1100 schools, the Health Policies tend to be guided locally over the years. That is been the tendency. This is a new obviously and evolving circumstance. D and we havefor guidelines that weve used at our institution which i support and would recommend for everyone and as i said the nc 2a have been scussing this as the pandemic has rolled forward. Well, i hope that you address that because i think that having a level Playing Field, were talking about sports here, would be great for all universities, colleges, whoever is part of your umbrella, your operating on the same set of rules and it makes a lot of sense. Were going to just build off what people have spoke about before. Just thewe k remaining time thae have. We know that given the Time Commitment that the athletes spend in practice, spo training traveling for their respective sport and the small amount of time they spent in the r classroom, is there a case to be made that some of the athletes be really no longer amateurs and should we be considering how we fine student athlete and how do we ensure that given these demands college and universities are giving student athletes the realistic time they need to havt a quality education that is going to serve them the rest of belr life . And dr. Drake, you could answer again. Thank you very much. H. We believe in the student athletes as commissioner sankey and others have said. Aintai our student graduates graduate at a higher rate than the general student body and to suo maintainrt eligibility they havb toee maintain progress through school and we support that and think about that all of the time. It is an avenue toward getting a to school for so many students. We appreciate that. An avenue toward staying in school for so many. But an avenue toward graduating from school for so many and that is an important part of our k y. Work. Well. I appreciate all of your work and we want too set up all of o students for success after they graduate and that is the purpose of this hearing today. Thank you. Thank you, senator rosen. Senator moran. Thank you to you and the Ranking Member for conducting this hearing and thank you for the opportunity you gave senator blumenthal and i have february 11th related to the topic of nib and now this hearing perhaps more broadly just the care and m well being of student athletes. Let me start, i have so many questions and so little time. Cof mr. Sankey or mr. Carter, i want to talk about the a5 conference. The requirement for providing am health care, it is my understanding that among the a reforms that came about, i think in 2015, there is a requirements a5 schools must provide medical care to former student s athletes for at least two years afterer graduation. Under this kind of this requirement, what kind of care,c what kind of costs are covered and what is the magic number about two years, is there any suggestion or believe that it should last longer than that . B i dont know the exact expenditure so ill allow keith to share perspective from campus. We do adopt that legislation. Debate about two years as i recall generated from discussioe at a state level in the pac12 conference and produced the slao original concept which we all supported. And in fact even without legislation we have provided medical care at a campus level for student athletes post eligibility. That is more of a habit than a requirement that is taking place over the years. Prior to that legislation, which as you noted, does now exist. Yes. And ill just does that cover all student athletes . The new rule did, that is right. Okay. Br anything further okay. Ill just piggy back on that briefly. Obviously for us, were here to talk about student athletes. For this heaea particular issue, its in the right thing to do. I think for us, were going to ess abououthatg our student a athletes are healthy. We talk to them about how this is family and we want to take care of you and the things that fou need to gettake done. We want to make sure we come forward with that as well. With the commissioner, im not sure on why the two years was a rt of the y wepolicy, w butan certainly, we want to take care of our student athletes. Let me transfer to other schools. My understanding is that in most circumstances after transferring to a different institution, the student athlete must set out for a year before coming eligible to play again. Is there a belief that thats appropriate requirement . Do you think that adent student athlete should be able to nsfer transfer without having to sit out for that year, if not, in r what circumstances do you believe that would be appropriate andsses i would wel the comments of any of our witnesses. The abi there are student that have that oneyear requirement. The other will have an ability to have an exception. By january, the ncaa nationally has said that it will entertain or review legislation to legisla alter that one year. That one year transfer with holding. We have justication remove d a restrictions on communication to free up communication and destination and Financial Aid nd once yous transfer. I think that was a good step. This next consideration needs to consider issues like academics. I think thats an important part of the transfer world. I also t believe the team, i thk there are some considerations that need to be introduced rapidly. So that we can solve this problem sooner rather than later. Severques i have several other questions but i welcome anybody who has a comment on this one. Dont encourage him, mr. Chairman. I want to ask about scholarships. Scholars whats the most common reason ol student athlete scholarship isda revoked and arers there circumstances in which if you told us why an athletes scholarship was revoked, that we would find that objection abl . Are they always revoked for what would seem to be the average american, to us on this committee, which may not be ther sameic thing as average america. Back to average americans. T will they find it objectable for the way student athletes are treated with regard to maintain ing their scholarships and the circumstances in which they might be revoked . I would say one would be an academic reason. That if theyre not fulfilling their academic requirements, reason. A hlete then certainly if there was a disciplinary reason, we deem that had the student ath let did not need to be at our ti university. Those are thes mainare two reat but u most ofhe the time, stude athlete rs the athletes are there, theyre to be able to have that throughout their career. Eep th i think most americans would be surprised that they keep their scholarship. That its not something that play on the field has we brsur from them. That we bring them in and support them through their education. Thank you for that answer. Senator blackburn, are you with us . Im with you. Recogniz you are recognized. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank and i thank you for the hearing today on this but i will tellor you for our guests that are there, thank you for the time e youreanothe giving us. Hearing it ought not to take another congressional hearing to have the ncaa address nil issues. And chairman moran said, this is the second time weve had a hearing on this and earlier this year for what proves to be a very unsatisfactory hearing and approach. We so i want to do some yes and no questions and mr. Carter, werey going to start with you. Full disclosure. My son ran crosscountry there at ole miss. My daughter is also an ole miss grad. But let me work through a series of questions and just start in with you, going through the list, mr. Winston. Simple yes or no. Do you believe student athletes should be able to profit from their nil . S or no. Yes. Okay. Sorry, yes. Got it. Yes. Working on moving a yes. Ad okay. Thank you. And second question. Mr. Has the ncaa adequately handled the situation . And mr. Carter, start with you. Yes or no. Not yet. No. Okay. Not completed. So, you know, were in the process. No. No. Its a work in progress. No. Okay. And the third question. Patchwor will a patchwork of states laws be problematic . Yes. Yes. Not as much as they say. It will yes. I agree. Its overstated the issues that will happen from a patchwork. Well, what we know is that no the t ncaa has not adequately addressed this. They have done a patchwork woula present some problems and that student athletes should be able to be compensated for their name, image and likeness. Lets see. Mr. Carter and mr. Sankey, let me come to you. With putting things in legislation, being perscriptive and weve all looked at the report from the ncaa and that was not satisfactory to say her are someto guidelines. S. We mayth or may not take a e vo. That is not addressing the issue. I think we all agree, this is an issue thats gotten away from you. So, mr. Carter then to mr. Sankey. Ensure how can Congress Help ensure accountability and transparency in this legislation . In nil legislation . Expecting that the ncaa is not going to on their own come up with something. So how do we ensure accountability, how do we ensure transparency in this . I think thats why were here today, to talk about a lot of aa these potential solutions. I think weve outlined a framework that makes a lot of sense. Theres some things that we nee to be cautious of and we talked about those. But i do think that putting our foot on base at some point, obviously, we have a time frame. Doine got about 12 months before this goes into effect in florida, so, you know, i think that doing that and then certainly, you know, coming back to where does the final is enforcement and monitoring lie . I think that ends up with a hybrid, a hybrid approach wheren the ncaa is involved. Congress is involved and are ultimately, probably a third party is involved this help nk e administer thisre when its alla said and lidone. Do you think there should be a morality clause included in lels lels so that there would be way to deal with bad actors . We absolutely. I think were going to have g to anticipate those type of things. I think certainly with the ink recruiting issue potential issues we have with agents and different peoplether some that are going to be involved in the process, i think theres got to be some guardrails there to protect against that. Okay. T. Sankey. I think hes identified the need foror a third party. I said absolutely be open to that approach. Where that authority rests i think remains for conversation. And i think it is an important conversation. So you see a third party as o opposed to a committee from the ncaa handling this. Have senator, im open to that. Thr ive not seen other models that solve the problem beyond that part of the conversation. Thank you. Yield back. Thank you, senator blackburn. Senator blumenthal. Thanks, mr. Chairman. N. Come here in the context of a history of athletes unfortunately being used as s profitth centers in our source revenue to the colleges. Vsh often, they are unable to benefit from their name, image and likeness. By now, i think weve thoroughly established it in this committee through our subcommittee hearing back in february. And now in this one, but theres abundant evidence of the that a profiting by schools at the expense of athletes. As it may be for causes that are regarded as worthwhile, like financing other sports. R or the cause of athleticism. The university in general. But i think the question for usw is how do we protect the athlete . How do we makee sure that they are not make inadvertently victims of a process that puts e them behind profit. And i think the latest example, frankly, are these waivers. Senator booker and i have introduced legislation that essentially would prohibit them and president drake, you and i spoke yesterday about buckeye pledge. Ince ive since reviewed it. I know in good faith you told me it was a pledge, but it says very explicitly that quote, i understand that the university following the coronavirus guidelines issued by the cdc and other expert to reduce the spread of infection, i can never be completely shielded from all risk of illness caused by covid19 or other infections and then it goes on to say that signer and the athlete signs this document. Acknowledges that quote, these expectations and pledge are a condition of my participation et cetera. The other pledges are even more explicit. University of tennessee, which we have, for example, university of missouri, i understand were trying to get smu, but all of them as the university of deline missouri says, quote, i pledge to ak cement the responsibility to abide by these guidelines in order to keep myself, my and teammates, et thecetera, safe. They use the word risk and they provide for an assumption of risk by the athlete. That is in effect a waiver. From my standpoint as a lawyer. And i guess my question to the panel is isnt it unethical to ask a College Athlete to assumee risk of participating, which has the effect of waiving rights in court if that athlete becomes sick and if his or her future is in pearl. Not to mention their health. If they are affected by coronavirus. Isnt thatit sll egalunethical shouldnt it be illegal . Dont you think that the measure that senator booker and i have e introduced should be passed for . Getting these kinds of waivers . You can begin with you. Or any of you. T suppor well, let me speak first. Appreciate your question in the conversation and i dont supporo the waiver or an assumption of risk in a legal sense. We want to make sure that people are behaving in responsible fashion the protect themselves and their community. So on behalf of Ohio State University, if any athlete evera suedth your institute, you woul say, no rights have been forgony or waived or sacrificed . I certainly would say that. As a result of this. Yeah, period. That we would not want anyone to sign any of their i hope your lawyers agree with you. Well, i hope so, too. But again, our goal really was to make sure that the students p took their individual behavior as an important thing that they were going to follow to make sure they were doing what they could to protect themselves. Tha thank you, senator you blumenthal. Thank you,iting us mr. Chair. Thank all of you for being here today. When that question was asked, ma shouldnd athletes be able to be compensated for their name, image and likeness and you said youre leaning towards, youre trying to get to yes, im with you. Im trying to get to yes here,e, but im also realizing this bril trains left the station and we got to do it right. So, briefly, i have several concerns. One is on the title 9 issue and many of you mentioned this in your statements. What i am concerned for women athletes. My daughter was a division i athlete. I was actually way s one back i day. Myself. And weve come a long way obviously since the 70s. But i am concerned of what i could see as developing inequities in the ability to earn from your name, image and m likeness, for a female athlete as opposed to the more higher i profile sports that the male athletes are playing. Mr. Sankey, ill ask everybody a question on that. Its a bit of a hypothesis and my asunlgts is football being what football is, there will be a great deal of this active drif therein. Weve had Womens Basketball teams, do play at the same time in the National Championshipip contests with highly prominent young women involved. Their gymnastics on a Network Every friday night has drawn attention, but i am concerned that the amount of nil activity around football and mens fundin basketball willg pull away funding from womens sports. R, t miss cole. Senator, i think this is an l area where this is just a gende equity opportunity. A it doesnt provide in the gen likeness deals, so if colleges get involved, which i dont think anybody on this panel tys supports, then wed have a o til directe title 9 problem, but types of deals talked about now present no title 9 issue. In terms ofhe main promoting gg equity, the main time when women athletes can profit from their name, image and likeness is in College Sports. Monet they dont often have other opportunities. The sec is a great example. I think it would promote gender equity,have not hinder it. Ntinug in our principles weve brought forward, preserving thet gains weve made a and continui to move forward in this area is important than anything thats developed. Theres going to be well, th well see be not. Ea but i have no faith its going to be a 50 50 deal here. Just quickly. I think there are going to be, e if we can get to the framework we all hopee to get to, there will be hopefully an equal opportunity for both men and women. I think that there was some models that came out maybe last month that showed some of the high profile athletes and what o their market value might be and there were some womens gymnasto on the west coast based on their social media. Correct. I think individually women couli certainly do very well, but i do kind of echo what the hank commissioner said that i think it could potentially take away from the overall aspect of womens sports. Okay. Y did you have a comment . Cially nil is incremental. Were not taking from a pie or trying to add to it and allowinh thee players to use their li likeness to benefit more. So i want to make sure thats out there and then number two, i agree with miss cole. I think you know, when you look at female athletes, they might be at the height of their markel ability and to produce profit for themselves whether its in sociall media or appearances, especially when you think about certain sports that dont have professional ranks yet. Thank you for that. I think if the male athlete has the pro leagues ahead of him, its in the best interest t to really ramp himself up to be able to hey, this o brseguy, he really going to bring it in. Sell the tickets and all that kind of stuff. So i have some skepticism around this particular question. My other issue is the agents. Me i mean, we read every day about he some collegege athlete who has parents have beenen moved to th city. Shoe ncdeals. Aa i shirt deals. Icient the ncaa is not really able to police that as efficiently as effectively and i understand they are, theyre cracking down, there have been some very high profile cases, but when does the agent approach the athlete . When theyre in ninth grade . When does the agent approach the athlete on campus to help them . I want to be yes, i want to be yes but i i think this is going to be an issue on campus. A uni ooech and even earlier. It is an important part of the conversation. We have a uniform agent act. Its enforcement varies from state to state, ceo pending on where that enforcement is signed and funded. We have had those issues arise where people are trying to go through a back door if there can be sunshine and transparency brought to the ranspa dlationships, thats healthy, but how far back can that go. I would simply observe theetsim activity around zion williamson. I dont know the details. I know what ive read in the media where there are lawsuits around marketing deals after hie eligibility at duke. Had a year to plan and prepare a. Its still difficult even in that circumstance. Thank you. Not going to be easy for a 16 or 17yearold. No, its not. O it is thank you. My time has expired. Thank you, senator. Commissioner, this agents law is a suggest ed state law adoptd or not by the 50 states. The existing uniform agenting act. I think focus for this has been sparta, which is a federal law. I will confess to not being an expert but have been identified as a potentially more effective mechanism. Well try to e get up to speed on. Chairm too. , senator sullivan is next. Thank you, mr. Chairman, andi thank you all for being here. Its a really important topic. Its a hard topic. I love College Athletics. We all do. The its a great part of our universities and our american culture. My question, its juste movi panelists, really just expanding on what senator capito is asking about. Looks like were moving forward s, the nil issues. Are we thinking enough about en either, whatever you want to . Ll it, inequities ort unintended consequences in t differenthree categories. Let me throw out three then ils throw the question up to all the panelists. What the senator mentioned, the male, female sports. And title 9 issues. The second one is what about smaller divisions, smaller universities. We have ohio state here. Obviously big ten. But you know, my state, great state of alaska has wonderful em collegeor athletics but isnt always in the conferences to get the big tv deals. Then ooefb more fueven more at n fundamentally, you know, the mission of the University System in colleges which we have in america and its a great advantage of ours, right . So many great universities throughout our country relative to any other ititcountry. But its on higher education. B about educatingoard americans. U i have the privilege of sitting on the board of visitors in the Armed Services hencommittee. We discuss leadership, education, character and inbalancing. College athletics, which at the naval add kcademy, are serious. In my view, you dont want to create an institution that emphasizes College Athletics so much that you start to underminr a more important mission, whicha i think we wouldt all agree onn education, character, leadership in the generation of americans. Unintended con quenss on those areas i mentioned and potentially inequities. Not just male, female, but big school, small school. Who will go first . Our a ill jump in. I think there are these unintended consequences or unimagined is maybe a better phrase because the need the think about this, even while we have a time deadline looming because of state law becoming into effect that it needs to be considered. They said to me, id love to have those right now because ive been disrupted in my likens spring, but you add wanting your own business effective. Your name, image and likeness business on top. If youre stressed now, between athletics and academics and now you have Economic Activity on top of that, im concerned about where that time is going. Concerned it comes from academics. I think that is a proper conversation and i shared earlier the message it sends about the importance. Thats right. That we this is your economic opportunity. Where we help you, whether you faltered or not, that we will educate you, help you grow as a leader and person through your education al experience. Were not perfect in that. We do it very well. I spent 11 years of my career in fcs football. Smaller state universities. If i was still commissioner, i think my schools will be asking me how am i going to manage this with my student athletes . All of a sudden, that Economic Activity is now added to relational issues in a Small College community. Those are real challenges under this concept. What i would say is every w student on campus kumpbtly that is not an athlete enjoys theseoh rights andle campuses are well positioned to work with student athletes to council them on time management. We in higher ed do that every day. Andme idia know from my kids be social Media Influencer or instagram star is actually a career, so these student athletes can learn to balance these things and this can be ari longtermx entry into productivs employment for them andue finals on the title 9 issue, again, this really has the possibility of enhancing gender equityty an draw iing a spotlight on to womens sports where it hasnt existed before. Ill go next, senator, if you dont mind. F you do theres a perceive d take a look at the facilities at ohio state compared to ohio university. At ole miss compare d to southen miss. Theres massive disparities already, so acting as if were going to give College Students some rights to make money as ift thats going to create some massive inequity in the system that already has a massive ig recruiting inequity already is i think is a big fallacy that is kind of being perpetrated not necessa necessarily by the witnesses here, were pretending theres some sort ofg field athle equit Playing Field of College Athletics right now that simply doesnt exist. That simply just look at the facilities of some of these big time colleges compared to the smaller ones, ut to university of houston even. Theres. Matt ive differences here. I would also, say theres a little bit of, i dont know if hypocrisy is the right word. Wi were asking kids to sign waivers. To deal with an epidemic, but yet, pandemic, but they cant balance tweeting something out for 100 and still go to class. So, i want to give the College Athlete while he has to balance and she has to balance a lot, a more credit than that and also point out that ineck equity that already exists in the system and that this nil would be away ental and not takeing. From anything that currently happened. Other members of the panel may want to supplement their answers to senator sullivans question. Senator scott. Thanks for being here. I was governor of florida from t 2011 to 2018 and one thing we did was really focus our millio university and State College system on nsresults. So we actually allocated 580 million to our University System primarily tied to three things. What it costs to get a degree. We knew our students were going to get degrees. Number two, did you get a job and how much as money do you m . Now, my understanding is the ncaa keeps track of Graduation Rates, but not you know, with people who are employed afterwards or how much money do they make. So the way i look at this is anything were going to do, it ought to beme tied to somebody having success. As the that means being having a job after school and making as much money as they should be making. What do you think about that . Do you think it makes any sense . Tie d to job compensation after graduation . The nyaa just released a survey to track satisfaction. I think some was job success, which was higher than the general student population. Im not an expert on that t report, but it wasasi releasedt week. O we h for the southeastern conference. One of the issues was how do we help young people transition to careers. Vanderbilt rather than just being in Summer School to a car prepare people for thatee he transition. We have a career tour that stud unfortunately was disrupted in the spring where we would have been in dallas, texas, with a group of football student athletes introducing them to Corporate Leaders there. Weve had success in ice a exploring what isyour really is new activ foror a conference for that purposing. I say that when at ohio for state, president of ohio state s for six years, i was the chancellor at the university of california irvine for nine years, so a different level of competitive focus there. We had a to chanto change the contract so he was compensated for job placement or going to graduate school or serving in the thinknk military for our student athletes rather than success in olympic sports because we think thats critically important. Thats great. Ill just add, too, im for shortterm ad at ole miss, in k the first year, but doing recruiting presentations to parents and potential studentabu athletes, we always talk about we want you to come in and be a part of our family. Were going to put you in a position to succeed. Plyi notng d only get iting a degreea meaningful degree. Something that you can go out after you finish your playing days and be successful. As i of th mentioned earlier wi class last year that graduated we placedwh 100 into jobs. Some professional athletes, others just the normal working world. Thats what its all about. So if theres any way we can tie back any to ofthat thisn pi po, legislation to that education piece, im all for it. Thank you, senator scott. , io the term is a term of art. In short, what is a rooster . S someonesomeon who supports t Athletic Program because that can sometimeserly a be overly would you support legislation as we move to nil, to prohibit boosters from pay iing student m athletes. Pensto any compensation will be market based and appropriate. , on if i can use the term boo boosterism. When one got beyond normal market based support, then that would be the thing i would be concerned about. You said you think a handfulf of student t athletes will benet from nil if this goes forward. It appears the its going forward. Can you put a percentage on es,t that . Yeah. T say this. Weve heard about group licenses, which would be a different thing, which would potentially benefit more. Of inds i was thinking more of individual licenses and the number of those athletes that w. Have that have a marketable image and those that might make it in social media. 22 starters on the football team. How many would you be able to name if i asked you, im not going to reverse the questions, but in our own university offensive tackles. A handful of students might e be able to do commercials, those kinds of things. Mr. Charter, what do you think . I think its probably handful that end up with these larger sponsorship deals but its certainly nuanced because you back i offensive guard that isnt as wellknown. Thei but backr ho in their hometown,y are wellknown so they could goe back to their hometown and do as something that maybe they couldnt now. T so i think it could extend a little farther than the just the nationally recognized players because i think theres opportunity for people back with their own constituencies. Isnt it easy to envision some guy or gal having a sweet k deal in every hometown and it approaches pay for play pretty quick . Yes. Absolutely. Working with congress, working with this third party and certainly with our athletics departments to talk about and compliance and making sure were following the right protocols and procedures. If any of you want to follow along now, ill ask miss cole first. Give us for instances, and i was particularly interested in yourn point that collegiate women s players had a significant heir opportunitieses to monotize the opportunities. S willalways you give us examples . I think car dealership is an outdated model. Ar f but if you look at women athletes, kaitlyn fromrom ucla,t could have really izmonotized t that. She could have been an instagram influen influencer, social immediamedia. Started a youtube channel. These are things that my kids , could explain to you probably better than i can, but this is where women athletes can really use digital but platforms to la brands. To create brands. Nutrition podcasts. There are any number ofumber ofs if you look at ncaa waivers on this issue that is in the boardn of governors report, you can see women athletes trying to. Seek waivers so that they can do these types of things, so maybe women athletes arent going to necessarily be endorsing the car dealerships, but they are goingt to have a viral a great softball game, something where they can take their personality, elevate their sport and themselves. Themsr do yo do you agree with dr. Drake that this will affect only a handful or do you think as on the surface, this is going to be almost everybody by the time its overwith . Yeah, i think when we have discussions on this, we tend to focus on the super, super stars in the recognition sports. Whats exciting about name likeness is that this opens up s new frontiers. Omen students from small schools, e from underappreciated sports. Ert again, women sports. T people can become stars on the internet that maybe arent stars that you and i always see. So i think actually there are many, many more athletes that could capitalize on these rights. 50 . 70 . The free market goes to work, so 50 or more, i think students will try. Try i think they will try and launce their podcast. I think they will try and becom instagram influencers. Ngt i think they will try and takee advantage of these rights that in some cases can lead to use i longtermth careers because i think that thee liftso is so eaa when were talking about digital platforms, so i think its far greater than a hand fful. Whether its half or 75 , i dont know. I think a lot of people will try. How many will succeed, the market will sort out. Who was this example you mentioned i think at ohio state . I mentioned kaitlyn ohashi. The gymnast from ucla. From ucla. O okay. Without embarrassing her, what do you think she could have received had she been able to monotize her success on social media . Itm going to defer to mr. Winston to talk about numbers. What i can say is the millions of views she got for that one d floor routine that was put out on twitter. So soc you can be paid 400, 2t you can be paid for social media posts. Its a great way to make a living. Ital viral, and t wentlot she could have had amo lot of in dinlgston digital endorsements, lot of brick and mortar type situations. I think mr. Winston can putu a number on it better than i could, but if you look at the millions of views she had, she m could have turned that into millions ofr. W dollars. Were going to take a second round, senator blumenthal, so youll be recognized next. Mr. Winston, you want to weigh in on an estimate of how she might have monotized . I dont think anybody can bel certain, but if you look at influencers, professional peop influencer, not even just athletes, but other entertainers or people that have built a followings, you know, we could be talking about several ll thousand dollars into like a small five figure amount because of that following and what miscole is saying is right on. And it is nuanced. As mr. Carter said as well. If somebody said when i was in d college, hey, ill give you 100 to tweet something out, an ad for a local restaurant, that would have been great, too. So i think when we talk about what kind of compensation will be available forny peoplpl how people, as a wide ranging scale, but shes spot on, that technology will be driving a lot of this for a lot of people because obviously, their audiences will be similar aged and they will be able to createe content themselves and the list really goes on to the possibilities. If i had the money as a locas business man and i could do it, i would want to pay 100 to every member of the Ole Miss Football Team to tweet somethina out on my behalf. I just wonder if thats where were headed. Im not sure youre referrint to a pay for play scheme, im not looking at it like that, bu if they want to can have an appearance by the offensive line by the restaurants, cutting up their stakes or ribs, would probably be a good venture for p them. Or even simply instagram a er picture of them eating at the restaurant or being, ther in front of the restaurant or whatever. In theres so many different ways to do this in a very streamline and efficient way now that its i dont think anybodys realized all the possibilities out there. Senator blumenthal. Thank you for the hearing and for the second round. I just want to pursue this line of questioning because it is so immediately concerning. According to a june 26th vice report. Im quoting more than 150 players at Ncaa Division i revenue sports. Have tested positive for coronavirus. These numbers are almost certain ly lower than the actual number because only 64 of the 130 relevant schools are publicly reporting their positive covid19 cases. E are just as were seeing ining risg certain states among the general population, were seeing unquestionably rising numbers among College Athletes reporting back to school. Number one, id like to ask mr. Drake, will you commit to the n requiring all colleges to disclose the number of covid19 cases that occur at your schools. Thats hippa and other issue. Are in effect so i think that disclosing information as you so you will commit to requiring them to report those cases. I dont know that i commit t requiring. Forgive me, senator. The commit to require the disclosure of the number of president obaositive covid19 c. Im d19just, dont want to u difficult. Who would i commit to disclose publicly. Themem to report and mi for you to disclose publicly. I believe its appropriate for the schools to report. And with proper privacy protections for the individuals in place, i thinkgo thats a reasonable thing. General numbers, they should be reporting. Is there anyone here who does not support the legislation that senator booker and i introduced. That they contract covid19. We we did not ask our student athlete to sign a waiver when they came back and all workouts are voluntary. We felt like the procedures and protocols are very good. What we found is when student athleteses returns is we had a w positive cases as they spent k time together, the cases spiked some. Now were seeing it go back down. I think theyre starting to realize the protocols are needed. They need to do you saw somer protocre there. Sxwl we did, yes, sir. But again, i think our protocols were there. What we did, weantibod tested covid and antibodies when they arrived and from there, we basel the tests based on symptoms. But you would support what youve introduce d as the collee pandemic safety act. This concern that the colleges are asking them to waive rights and i understand that you have not asked any, for any such waiver, but you would have no problem with legislation. Ouldwell, h i would probablyo to p know more about the a legislation to put my foot on base, but based on our ctcthave we did not require the waiver and will not require the waiver. I understand that the ncaa would like broad federal premption over state laws and guardrails for and in addition would like an antitrust exceptiondeals. To be the regul nil deals. In the past, the ncaa has rea y really, in many ways, fail ed t protect the athletes. Wouldnt it be great to have an independent body to oversee these deals rather than have the ncaa do it . Uppo i would support thatrt about continuing discussions aboutth w the oversight would be done and would be open to an independentr party, sure. Let me ask you. Professor, the oversight, independence and so forth . I strongly oppose an exception for the ncaa for the fact that what weve seen in recent antitrust cases its tiof produced good for studentor athletes. What mr. Carter talked about with increased food availability, stipends, cost of attendance, this is as a result of antitrust cases and i think n thats an important accountability check on the fren market and on the ncaa, but second of all, i dont think they should bet get a blank check here becauseow e wha wegot yet exactly what theyre going u to do. O. The board ofofmy governors repos very squishy, as i would say toh my law students in terms of th t principles. Thaf had yearsrete to come up w poi pointed, guiding, concrete steps. We dont have that. What theyre asking for is a broadbased antitrust exception which would be extraordinary even in sports. Ce well, it would be certainly extraordinary in College Athletics as you well know. Nhl, Major League Baseball and so forth have antitrust exceptions. Thats with the presence of a union. Thats whereion, s athletes hav voice. Thats a very, very different scenario than what we have here. Z thats an excellent point and in fact, in my view, those antitrust exceptions ought cob reviewed and scrutinized because they are highlyy exceptional. And i think it could argue a ed that the leagues have failed to liveve up to public interest, trust, that they are conditioned on. I have more questions. Itted ill submit them for the record. Id like these waivers to be submitted for the record. Without objection. I would like to ask every one of the witnesses, first of all, let me say that i would like your response in writing on this legislation. I understand that only mr. Here carter expressed any objection w here. I would like for the witnesses to submit any other waiver, documents youve become aware m. Of. This will apply i think san particularly to mr. Sankey and thank you, senator blumenthal, and clearly, the re questions for the record will be submitted by senators. Co including senator blumenthal any witnesses will be asked to cooperate and in getting us a timely response. Thank you very much. Our next questioner is senator moran for round two. Thank you for the second round. Let me express my gratitude to you and senatorr blumenthal, th Ranking Member of our subcommittee for our dealings ot this topic. Its a difficult one that does absolutely need our attention. N. Ii just have one question. I want to have a bettererunders understanding of the financial consequences to athletic with departments. Better understanding of what, were talking about legislation dealing with nil. What that legislation might mean to non ref knew generating. Sports. And im asking this question of all of our witnesses. Ng is my understanding is that looking at 2018 financial day a ta that was developed by usa today, the publication, only 12 of 230 athletic departments analyzed r produced a profit on an annual basis. The remaining departments received Additional Support from other sources such as their Institution Fees or state support. Approximately 91 ofion in athlo departmentsrt received over 1 million in support and for nearly 80 of thehetheir depar that support accounted for more than a quart of their revenue. So the question is how does nil legislation affect the financial circumstances an athletic to dep department. Is it positive, negative, why st would it have a to the departments revenues . Either positive or negative. And what should we be worried about with nonrevenue producing. Sports. Should we go down the line . N that would be fine. Mr. Carter. I think the answer and the hope is that it would be a neutral eutrecteffect. If we could find the right framework that the money as mr. Winston mentioned would be new revenue. However, i do think that using our market as an example, a hiph small market where our producer may go out to a local sponsor to do a sponsorship through our partnership. Well thatpend t sponsor may the the decision to make. We want the best for our student athletes and if that wasnt the direction they went, were all o for that. But it would decrease the amount coming into the department whica could have trickle down effectst to some sports and programming. E unintended koconsequences, this could be some of those we dont forsee. I would expect it to be i neutral because third party money coming in from outside. Ay. Ive overseen two programs. This should be money coming in from the outside. Professor koehler, college ts athletics is going going to be multibillion dollar business foc if units and media, whether this goes through or not. Correct . Thats correct. Xtent and in response to the senators question, what i think is to the extent that and i think the colleagues here on the panel said its not clear that it could affect not revenue sports, but to the effect that we have problematic effects, then College Athletic, departments need to be better stewards of their budgets. S. Voll maybe look at theey salaries fo strength and conditioning coaches and support your Volleyball Team instead. Finally forgot to press the button. We support our programs very well across the board in the southeast earn conference. But weve also had questions of college. Geoss therd. University programs. It will not be simply a neutral impact across the board. Ctivit mr. Carter describes the Third Party Rights activity that happens with local advertising sales. Is that an impact, sure but in the scope of billions and billions,la probablypact. Not t largest impact. Ll b yet, were here talking about the range of divisione i, ii an iii and ores where it will be impacted because its not an unlimited pool of resources. What happens ine local social a different world. A different conversation. But the local impact we transition to one of the earlier conversations will be felt and it will depend on the scope of the program to be able to identify the results. In really in a interesting economic time to make predictions about what will or wont happen. True. Thank you, senator. Uch i would say neutral to add it. Obviously when you think about t how much money the programs, video games, thats zero dollars. How much theyre making from trading cars, being able to license their marks to trading with zero dollars. Stu so thats completely additive. Gd obviously if a student ath alito is tweeting something or doing e something thats you know, thats additive to them, i would even submit on the sponsorship front that mr. Carter brought hd up, ive heard that and i understand the argument. T. Say when you combine it on the sponsorship front, its even more valuable. You can look at professional sports on the sponsorship model. Theyll tell you if you have the athlete with the professional marks, thats worth say tht it i more. So again, i would say at the least, its going tok neutral, but i think its having people be creative and i think will be additive for both sides. Thank you, senator moran. Let many ask. In terms of agents. Sch does anyone wish to weigh in on the question of whether an agent should be able to approach a ty . High schoolol athlete before he signs with a college or university . I wou opinions on that . When youre talking about a star player that would be putati considered in some sort ofon de, right, you would want professional representation or at leastly would the family, i guessing, would want professional representation. Whether that be aon lawyer orale agent. But you know,hether t i think w probably all agree that uc anything, any sort of, and i would even go asements far and was a previous remark. We wouldnt want to see any inducements to go to college from that. Now, on the derivative side ertn either. Obviously the markets going to dictate certain behavior a, but at the same time, i wouldnt want a college or someone saying make to achai player obviously youl make this much money if you come here. Any anybody else want the weigh in on this issue of agents . Nd 2i i think were about finished. I understand you have been president emeritus for some 12 hours and 20 minutes. Ume by h is that correct . T reti and i assume based on how you look that it was a rather modese retirement party. Covid, yes. Yes. Thank you very much. Doe and mr. Chaarter. Does the date, february 14 dth, 1998, mean anything to you . It does. How many three pointers did you get against the university of kentucky in that 7364 victory . Several. Well, youll be allowed to submit that question for the record. Anel i i want to thank the panel for a very interesting and important hearing and for providing us with quite of bit of expert testimony. As i alluded earlier, the hearing record will remain open for two weeks. Aske during this time, senators are p asked to submit any questions for the record upon receipt. The witnesses are requested to submit their written answers tos the committee as soon as possible, but by noday, j j later than wednesday, july 15th, 2020. Thit and with that, i conclude the hearing. I thank the witnesses and this hearing is adjourned. [captions l cable satellite corp. 2020] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [indiscernible conversations] weeknights this month, were featuring American History tv programs as a preview of whats available every weekend on cspan3. The dwight d. Eisenhower memorial dedication ceremony took place thursday with a keynote address by senator pat roberts and recorded remarks by Condoleezza Rice. The memorial honors the man who served two terms as president following his service in the world war ii. Watch the memorial tonight beginning at 8 00 eastern and enjoy American History tv this week and every weekend on cspan3. American history tv on cspan3, exploring the people and events that tell the american story every weekend coming up this weekend, saturday at 10 00 p. M. Eastern on real america, three films about the u. S. Census from the 1940s, 50s and 60s and a look at the 1819 flu pandemic and how it altered american life. And at 7 00 p. M. , the 1962 president ial debate and at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on the presidency, the dedication ceremony for the new dwight d. Eisenhower memorial in washington, d. C. , just off the National Mall and at the base of capitol hill. Speakers including pat roberts, Condoleezza Rice and david and susan eisenhower. Exploring the american story, watch American History tv this weekend on cspan3. President donald trump and former Vice President joe biden are set to debate tuesday, september 29th. Biden supports Cutting Police funding and pledged to end cash bail. Just last week, he proudly accepted the endorsement of the antipolice portland District Attorney who has a policy of releasing rioters without charges. He lied to the american people. He knowingly and willingly lied about the threat posed to the country for months. He had the information. He knew how dangerous it was. While this deadly disease ripped through our nation, he failed to do his job on purpose. It was a life and death betrayal of the american people. Watch live coverage of the first president ial debate tuesday, september 29th on cspan at 9 30 eastern and on cspan. Org debates. Theres also a link to our campaign 2020 website with campaign videos, candidate information and election results. Go to cspan. Org debates or listen live on the free cspan radio app. Cspan your unfiltered view of politics. A House Oversight subcommittee held a hearing recently on whether louis dejoy has politicized the postal system since he took office in july of this year. In addition to looking into the post offices plan for voting by