Transcripts For CSPAN3 David Rice Atchison - President For A Day 20240712

That was a grand introduction. If you just want the major accomplishments of David Rice Atchison, thank you, it has been a lovely evening. [laughter] needless to say, his administration is a little less impressive than maybe truman or anyone else who was ever president. However, David Rice Atchison is someone you should know about. He was a significant player in the days leading up to the civil war and the term what we call bleeding kansas. He was one of the people who really began the push to get kansas as a state and he tried to direct it in a certain direction that he felt was beneficial for the union. Was he misguided . Very possibly. Was he successful . Absolutely not. And, but what is important was who this person was and why, unfortunately, he disappeared from everything. The library came up with the davidfor this program, rice atchison, president no one knows. Looking at that, i realized that long ago in another lifetime as a journalist, i wrote a column for the newspaper i worked for entitled the exact same thing. However, in learning more about him, maybe the title should be David Rice Atchison, the man, the senator and the president that no one knows. What i find most interesting about David Rice Atchison and what stirred the creation of our president ial library is, besides his 24 hours of infamous status as president , is that this man who was nearing the pinnacle of his political career, who was considered one of the most able senators and statesman of his time, a man so well respected by his colleagues in the senate, he was elected president pro tem of the senate again and again. Making him the third most powerful man in the country. And on two extended occasions when the Vice President or the president had passed away, and no Vice President was in office, he served as de facto Vice President. The press of the time referred to him as Vice President atchison for years and years. How can a person who is this high ranking, this influential, how could he disappear . How could he just completely fall off the map . How could someone so smart and capable understanding of the ways to get things done at the highest levels fade away could fade away so completely he would be forgotten for a century . Someone who was so powerful and so able to change the rules of statehood just to try to keep the balance of power does not just evaporate. I think we need to look at who was David Rice Atchison . Likely, because he left public life early, his accomplishments and goals were overshadowed by the civil war and its aftermath. And his moment of infamy was not followed up by greater moments. Atchison has faded from view and gotten left out of most of the history books. A fire in 1870 probably added to this. His home burned in 1870, including his library, his collection of papers, and his manuscript he was working on for his memoirs. Had that not burned, we might know more about him today. He may have not completely disappeared. David rice atchison has been typically portrayed as this two dimensional figure without much redeeming value, a slaveholder who holed up in texas after the civil war. The most repeated stories about atchison show him as a drunken ruffian, a vile figure out to illegally sway the elections of a young kansas territory and bring slavery into a place it was not desired. And even his 24 hours of highest rank gets twisted into him sleeping off a drunk and missing his big day. In preparing for this, i found there is a blog out there by a priest that repeats a story about him saying that he had gone out to attend the inaugurals on that saturday night and slept all through sunday. Besides the timeline problems with inaugurals not happening until monday, there is no real evidence David Rice Atchison was a drunk and no evidence he did anything beside go to sleep after working with the senate for nearly 72 hours. The real David Rice Atchison was a very complicated man of exceptional intelligence, excelling and growing into someone who put principles in front of convenience, who then entered what should have been the most productive period of his life at the same time the United States was being torn apart. As a young man after he passed the bar and began into political life, he took the act of defending the mormons in court. This was not a popular thing in missouri, but he felt the mormons had the right to a proper defense, and so he put his career on the line as a young lawyer and defended the mormons. In the senate, he did another somewhat unpopular thing. He defended the rights of the native americans and believed that all the treaties should be upheld that were given them. Of course, at the same time he was taking other actions to open the west that was putting pressure on the same native americans he was defending with one hand. And then he was drawn into the kansas question, as i like to call it. Kansas absolutely consumed him. But i will come back to that in a few minutes. David rice atchison has a lot of things going for him through his career, and one of the things i ive put together is a little fact sheet so that when someone wants to know more about David Rice Atchison, someone wants to do a story, i can give them a fact sheet that gives them a brief synopsis of who this person was and why we should care about who David Rice Atchison was. It starts out with he is the real 12th president of the United States. I will let you make that decision on your own later tonight. He was born in frogtown, kentucky, on august 11, 1807, and this leads into one of the selfdeprecating humor of atchison. He always said i was a big frog in the puddle. He died in Clinton County, missouri, january 26, 1886. He never married, but raised his nephew as his own after his brothers death. He attended transylvania lexington,in kentucky. At the time, it was considered the equal of the premier eastern colleges like harvard and yale. It still exists, by the way. Transylvania university is still there. Atchison entered college as a freshman at the age of 14 in 1821. To give you an idea of how smart he was, he was four years advanced for anyone else entering class in transylvania university. He graduated in the class of 1825. His classmates included five future senators, including Jefferson Davis, who had become a lifelong friend. As a senator from missouri, he was a democrat and he served from 1843 to 1855. President pro tem of the senate from 1846 to 1850 and 1852 to 1854. The only time where he did not serve as president pro tem he deferred to the longestserving member of the senate who would later become a Vice President who passed away as Vice President s. David rice atchison replaced him as acting Vice President. In 1853 under president fillmore he served as acting Vice President after the death of Vice President taylor. Under president strickland pierce after the death of william king he served as acting Vice President. The Vice President did not have quite as much to do as they do now. They presided over the senate and voted whenever there was a tie vote. That was their only duty. The senate often refused to give the funds to hire a secretary at the time. As he began his career he served as a circuit judge in missouri. He then served in the missouri legislature. He was instrumental in the purchase that expanded the area of the state of missouri. In his time in the senate, he spearheaded the drive to allow the oregon territory settlement and set up a territorial government. He was one of the main supporters of texas statehood. He took a firm hand upholding the treaty rights of native american tribes during his 10 his tenure as the chair of indian affairs, he stood with a Southern States and he became the de facto leader of all the Southern States in the senate. From missouri, that was an ledual position that he that entire delegation. Atchison was also considered to be the real power who drove the passage of the kansas nebraska act. It is thought that possibly he even wrote the kansas nebraska act. Giving the credit elsewhere, but he was the powerbroker behind it, being able to garner all the southern votes to support it. When he retired from political life in 1856, he gave up because of the kansas question. He retired to his farm, and his last political foray came in 1860 when atchison stood as a candidate for missouri governor as a democrat. But he failed to gain the nomination. There were other forces at work. He refused to serve the confederacy during the civil war, but he came to the service of the state of missouri, and served among other positions as a general of the militia. In enactingumental the defensive offensive treaty, which im not sure what that means, but it sounds like a general treaty with the confederacy. I think they are trying to say a defensive treaty, but they wanted to say they could be offensive if they wanted to. That was a joke. [chuckle] i will come back to the bleeding kansas era. They told me this is not something you have to spend a lot of time about, bleeding kansas. You touched on it and other programs, but i think it is crucial to understand what happened to David Rice Atchison. You have to know his involvement. First it starts with the kansas nebraska act. Stephen douglas gets the credit, and atchison said in speeches he was the person behind the kansas nebraska act. Did he write this critical bill or was he the push behind it . He was the person likely driving the Southern States at this point. We can think of him as the godfather of kansas in this regard, driven by the vision that the fate of kansas was the fate of the union. He spoke of allowing southerners to participate in the wealth of the west. But privately, he saw the way the kansas went would tip the power in the union and solidify the union or break it. He fought at all costs to protect the union and the way he saw was the only way to avoid civil war, by protecting southern interests. Was atchison the savior or a demon to kansas . It depends on the view you take, but one thing is certain and i missed my coming up here. One thing is certain. He saw the future course of the nation before anyone else realized we were on the road to the civil war. David rice atchison had this two personality thing going, not because of anything he did, but because he was reported on by different sets of reporters with different agendas at the time. There was either border ruffian David Rice Atchison, or peace broker David Rice Atchison. And the question was did David Rice Atchison fire the first shot through the hotel and a lawrence or did he plead for calmer heads . I am going to read two excerpts on different sides of this and you can decide which one makes more sense for that time. I will start off with the story of the peace broker atchison. This was as he told someone else reported, he told them in later years. I made several speeches, half a dozen riding horseback to the different companies. I spoke in the interest of peace. Exerting myself to check not to incite, not to outrage. It was not my wish the hotel should be destroyed. I urged sheriff jones to spare it. I told him it would satisfy the ends of justice if he should throw a cannonball through it and let the matter rest. But jones was bent on mischief and i could do nothing with him. The squatter sovereignty which was the newspaper of the time in the city of atchison reported on the events this way. Atchison, the man, atchison began by reminding the men that they were there to enforce the law, not violate the law. And should put personal animosity and private passions behind them. The general reminded the policy sse of thed the po Critical Condition of the country and told them that the eyes of the nation will be riveted on their actions that day. These men owed to their friends and families to remain temperate and calm in the discharge of their duty. That sounds a good human being talking, doesnt it . On the other side, the new york tribune, which had reporters stationed in atchison and northeast kansas throughout this entire time, reported on the same event. And this is the story of border ruffian David Rice Atchison. Boys, this day i am a kickapoo ranger, by god. This day we have entered lawrence and not one abolitionist had dared to fire a gun. Now, we will go in. And test the strength of that damned Free State Hotel and learn the immigrant aid society that cancer shall be ours. Boys, ladies should be respected by all gentlemen but by god, what a woman takes on her self the garb of a soldier by carrying a sharps rifle, then she is no longer a woman. And by god, treat her for what you find her and trample under your foot as you would a snake if a man or woman dare stand before you, blow them to hell chunk child of with a d. There is a subtle difference between these accounts. So, you have to decide, who was David Rice Atchison . You have two completely different characters being portrayed in the media at the time. Atchison was consumed by what was happening in kansas. He let himself be drawn into the detriment of Everything Else in his life. He even ignored the opportunity to be reelected to the u. S. Senate to try to reconcile how the kansas question was going to be answered. Now, David Rice Atchison was no saint. He was a slave owner, and he was concerned about what would happen to missourians who owned slaves like himself. But he was more concerned about how he might preserve the union if only for a while. Was he shortsighted . Was he kidding himself that kansas allowing the extension of slavery would solve the problem . In both cases, probably yes. But you have to consider that he was not this radical slave state wild eyed whiskey breathing he heathen. If he only cared about slavery and not the union his record in the senate would be different. And his lifelong friendship with Jefferson Davis would have allowed him to have any position in the confederacy he wanted. They differed a great deal in what they felt about what was happening. Jefferson davis was not David Rice Atchisons biggest fan because David Rice Atchison had other agendas. And atchison was probably closer to lincoln in his opinion of preserving the union then of Jefferson Davis or any of the Southern States that he was supposedly the leader of in the senate. He could have had any position in the confederacy, but when he finally admitted to himself long after many other people around him saw it, that the kansas cause was absolute futility, sometime in 1857 or 1858 he retired. He went to his farm in Clinton County. He would be pulled back to serve with the missouri militia, and he used his contacts to benefit the state by forging an alliance with the confederacy. Late in the civil war, his path literally disappears, just as he would do later. Finally resurfacing, he owned a farm in texas where he stays for a couple of years, wary of returning to his property in missouri. During this time, he writes letters to his brother still in missouri. You can see there is this dual isng going on, that he concerned about his property and how missourians are being able to keep their property. But he is also writing what to do with the slaves he has with him, his family slaves he has in texas. And he points out that no one desires them, and he is afraid to let them go because he does not think there is any way they can support themselves at the time, because texas was probably not a very good place to be a freed slave at this time. You see there are two things going on. He is concerned about the economics of slavery. At the same time, he does have a concern for the people who are freed that he had a responsibility for in some feeling. Once again, we are not putting him in a good light. He was a slave owner. That is an institution that cannot be defended. But he is in an interesting position that he has been straddling this line between these two things. He has finally given up on politics. And he is kind of at a loss for what it do at this point. He finally does return from texas, but it is kind of an interesting time to see that this person who was so involved in everything is now sitting on the sidelines, just trying to stay out of the way until things settle down. So you have a picture of who David Rice Atchison is. Now we come to the question, was he or wasnt he . In 1849 he was a senator on the rise. He was very well respected. Everyone thought he was probably someone who had a long way to go in his future. In a different time and a different time period where the union did not split itself apart, we may very well be talking about him as someone who was actually a fullterm president at some point. It was certainly mentioned during his career. But, at this point, i am going to lay out the reasons why for 24 hours he may or may not have been president of the United States. The congressional globe and the journal of the senate laid out a series of events that are easy to follow as you make a case for what happened in this unique 24 hours. First, president elect Zachary Taylor decides not to ascend to the presidency on the normal day, march 4, 1849. It was because that day fell on the sabbath. Of course that is 165 years ago today. Second, on february 9, 1849, thomas hart button, the other missouri senator, presents the credentials of David Rice Atchison from the legislature of the state of missouri, reelecting atchison to another term from 1849 to 1855. The acceptance of these credentials extends his term in the Senate Without a break. Point, on page 293 of the journal of the senate in relays the departure of Vice President George Dallas. I will relay about what dallas said at this time, and this occurred on march 2. As dallas was getting ready to leave, he says something that points out a salient fact to deciding whether David Rice Atchison was president or not. This is George Dallas, Vice President. Gentlemen of the senate, the close of my official term near at hand, i conform to an established and convenient practice by withdrawing from the vests creatingnd the occasion for a temporary president. He conforms to established and convenient practice withdrawing to force the creation of the choice of a new president of the senate. He went on to thank the senate for their countless courtesies and noting his constitutional duty to vote break tie votes in the vote had occurred 30 times during the polk administration. He used a very flowery language going on about this for a page. Then he comes to the end. My draft of your generous indulgence is a heavy one. What i ask you to forget and overlook the many imperfections with which the duties of the chair has been discharged, its labors occasionally more arduous and anxious are always more absorbing than is generally supposed, and i undertook them ofh oppressive consciousness inexperience. Now that i have finally, now that im finally relieved from my burden, let me say that i shall take back to the private pursuits whence i was unexpectedly called, the most grateful recollections of your kindness and a wish that your toils to advance the prosperity of the country beloved by us all may be rewarded by the purest public favor and the prolonged lives of happiness and honor. In other words, to put it in todays talk, thank god that is over. Im out of here. [laughter] george m. Dallas had an exceptional desire to have a great political career, but he had no political energy. Being Vice President wore him out, and being polks Vice President especially wore him out because polk made no friend. He was a one term president. He intended to be, and the first thing he did was declare war on mexico. Then he threatened to to declare war on Great Britain and canada. He was trying to fill up all the corners of the map of the continental United States. In that he succeeded and make a lot of extra friends. Polk did nothing and george m. Dallas suffered the consequences of that because he hoped to have a political career. But his career was ended and we never heard of George Dallas and probably with good reason. So, immediately after Vice President dallass exit on page 293 of the journal of the senate and page 646 of the congressional globe, senator atchisons chosen Senate Pro Tem and word is immediately sent to the house and president polk. This put atchison third in line to the president. With dallas gone, second in line to the presidency. He is in the line of succession because of the absence of the Vice President. Even though atchison had held this president pro tem over the last three years on numerous times when the Vice President was absent, atchison chose this time to thank his colleagues in the senate in such a way that it makes you think he realized there were Something Different this time. This is David Rice Atchison addressing the senate that day. Senators, i cannot refrain from returning to you my heartfelt thanks for the repeated honors you have conferred on me that i will endeavor to discharge the duties of the station faithfully and impartially. In the past he had not said anything other than accepting it. This time he felt he had to address them for some reason. The fifth step, David Rice Atchison leaves the senate to its duties until the end of the session, including a 25 hour straight session of the final day of the 30th Congress Beginning at 6 a. M. On saturday, march 3 until the adjournment at 7 a. M. Sunday, march 4, 1849. At noon, president james polk s term ends and polk is out of office. The line of secession falls to atchison who by this time is at home in bed asleep. This is where people think he was drinking the night before , but if you had been up for 25 hours in the senate or read some of the stuff from the 25 hours, you would have been asleep. With the president elect now in, and refusing to come David Rice Atchison is awoken that afternoon. P. M. Supposedly, and other times during the afternoon and evening, our friend of his, a judge and another senator show up asking for appointments to his cabinet or oneday ambassadorship. It has been noted in some stories that he signed papers during this 24 hours as chief executive. Possibly papers related to Zachary Taylors inauguration. However, nothing like that shows up in the congressional records of any type. If there was anything, possibly Zachary Taylors president ial papers might have something. But as far as i know no one has seen anything like that. Or it could have been the sort of papers that were dotting is and crossing the ts from the marathon session in the senate. At noon on monday, Zachary Taylor, the president elect, takes the oath of office. And now the 24hour president is officially out of office. I think this lays out an ironclad case for 24 hours from noon march 4 to noon march 5, senator David Rice Atchison was the highest ranking elected official in the United States. The question is, does that make him president . There are people out there who say no. One of them, if you ever look at the urban legend, debunking website snopes, they say this is false. They use the same three reasons that virtually everyone who says this is false use. One is that he was out of office as the senator and the president pro tem since the 30th congress adjourned. Second, the oath of office reason, if not taking meals makes taylor not present it also makes atchison not president and third is the fall back one, this whole thing was an invention of the early 1900s or 1950s and was not realized at the time. This is the reason william parrish, who is the biographer of David Rice Atchison, and there is only one book written about David Rice Atchison. Certainly someone this interesting should have more than one book written about him. William parish falls back on the saying they did not know about it reason. However, i am going to try to point out that all of these have some holes in their theories. Term, i contend that the leaving of George Dallas points up a common practice of the time was to force the senate to put in place this president pro tem for succession reasons because this was a time before the secret service and before antibiotics. To point out how fragile were, four months after leaving office, polk died. In 16 months into his term Zachary Taylor died, likely of cholera. Zachary taylor on july 4 was attending events, celebrating Independence Day and in five days he was dead. This was a time where death came very suddenly, and the rules of succession, setting this up was very important. Because it was cold, another people had died while marching the inauguration route in cold weather. So if all of the senators were out of office, which i think you have to agree that if you are a senator, you are still a senator for the next term you are still , in office. If youre out of office for that 24 hours think of what actually that happened today and there were no ethic rules to abide by. Think how much trouble our senators would get to any time a session ends. The oath of office thing, it seems to me that most people making this argument are mixing up the rules of secession to the presidency as opposed to the rules of president ial transition. I am not a constitutional scholar. I do not play one on tv. [laughter] what i have looked through, it seems that they mix up a lot of things here because this occasion is so unique, it is involving the rules of succession and the rules of transition and they are mixing together in this case. Transition is the peaceful transfer that occurs after the election of a president. The rule of succession applies to an event where a vacuum of power is left. This occasion mixes these two, and you also throw into this the constitutional scholar hairsplitting exercise that a president elect does not have to take the oath of office to be president , but he must take the over to execute the duties of the office. By that reasoning, taylor was president , but could not act. At this point you can fill in your own Ronald Reagan joke if you have ever seen bedtime for bonzo. There was a 24hour vacuum and the laws of succession and the laws of physics should apply because nature abhors a vacuum, and pretty much so does the federal government. As soon as the president is out of office, there is a vacuum of power, and one of two things must happen. The line of succession immediately comes into play to fill the vacuum, which would mean David Rice Atchison. Or Zachary Taylor must fulfill the duties of transition and take the oath of office to become president. Someone out there im sure is saying, if youre looking at this, but David Rice Atchison did not take the oath, either. But the rule of succession says they do not have to take the oath until a convenient time. Of course, Zachary Taylor had never held elected office. He had never taken the oath of office. However, David Rice Atchison is a sitting senator and he has taken the oath of office every time he was elected. If you look at these two oaths they covered the same ground. So at least to me i think the oath of office argument is a difficult one to make stick. An invention of the 1900s or 1950s, this is the one that they all fall back to. At this point i have to say not so fast. This is the ultimate argument they give to discount this rare incident. Snopes uses it as their, it does not matter anyway argument, and so does william parish. However, there is physical evidence in the newspapers of the time. There were one of two things that counted as a story. The long diatribes that took up pages, or there was a paragraph, and those are what they called stories at that time. Now, this argument is not only wrong. It is completely wrong. Here is why. The Daily National intelligencer, the Washington Post of its time, and on march 10, 1849, the National Intelligencer prints a note about David Rice Atchison as president on the inside page. President for a day, the honorable David Atchison president of the senate was on sunday last by virtue of his Office President of the United States for one day. So of course they did not know about this in 1849. [laughter] now, the next one not only shows that this got spread around the country, it got kicked up for the National Intelligencer many papers, this is from the newark, new jersey paper. It includes the line, his salary for that day was 68. So if we can find that pay voucher for 68, we have ironclad evidence David Rice Atchison was president for a day. Finally, what does David Rice Atchison have to say about this case . Depending on the time, he said different things. At one point, he said he was president. At one point, he said he was merely the Senate President pro tem, next in line if needed. He also said that for 24 hours either the country was without a government or i was president. He often joked i had the honestest administration this country ever had. [laughter] in a later interview, he said i boast to make that not one woman or child shed a tear place my income but in for being put out of a job. It was a little funnier at the time. I think it shows he had a sense of humor. He did not take it too seriously but he realize this was an unusual situation and he was probably ready to accept this position if it had come to him. He had spent pretty much as his entire Senate Career getting ready for this. Of course, for a long time, he was just a breath away from being president. As he served as acting Vice President for most of his career, he was two steps away from being president. If something had happened to Zachary Taylor, or polk, if the situation happened differently, he would have been ready for that position. Of course, you have to remember Zachary Taylor, 16 months after this 24 hours, died in office. Why is there a David Rice Atchison worlds smallest unofficial president ial library . We could have come up with a way to make the title longer. [laughter] and you may have guessed by now that the library is actually in exhibit on David Rice Atchison and a collection of material papers, artifacts that tell the story of this important figure in the early days of the kansas territory, depending on the time, it is two or three in close cases inside the Atchison County Historical Society museum. There is a banner above the declaring it a president ial library. When people walk in, they can see it and go right to it. We opened up the current president ial library on president s day 2006. Although, the idea came along long before that, maybe back as far as 1989 when we moved into the current building we are in, which is a large, stone freight depot, the first time i saw it, the president ial library was a picture of David Rice Atchison, his side arm, and a book cover. We did not actually have the David Parrish book. We had a book cover wrapped around another book. So, at some point, i took all of this down with the idea that if we are going to do this we are going to do it right. We will have the facts there and let people decide. Was David Rice Atchison a good guy or a bad guy . Was he president or not president . How big is the worlds smallest president ial library . I was informed there are some challengers out there, apparently for us. I am pretty confident we have this wrapped up originally our exhibits of the president ial library was 21 square feet. Then we made a major expansion when we acquired the National Intelligencer. We had to have room for that so we expanded to 32 square feet. I thought about putting it in cubic feet but that would make the number larger. So how much space do you need for a 24hour presidency and when you spent no money, you broke nono war, you promises, and you passed no bills . You do not need a lot of space. However, in his Senate Career he did do a lot of things. We try to acquire as much of the material out there as possible about David Rice Atchison. What is the David Rice Atchison library . There is an always growing collection of information related to David Rice Atchison. Everywhere from Abraham Lincoln who stopped in atchison for his tour in kansas in 1859 all the way to harry truman when the bridge was dedicated, he was there speaking on the atchison side of the bridge. Of course, the centerpiece of the exhibit is David Rice Atchisons whitney percussion. 36 caliber revolver. This was carried by David Rice Atchison. It was one of the four pistols he carried in march 1855 when he came to kansas to safeguard the first kansas election. By the way, one of the things, there was a huge investigation, a 1200 page book was produced by congress, investigated, and they decided David Rice Atchison did in kansas. Legally it took them 1200 pages to decide that, but you know we acquired this gun from his nephew. Now it fits into our David Rice Atchison president ial library. Of course, every president ial library has to have a hall of president s and we do, too. Ours is a little bit smaller than most you have seen. These are the marks toy company toys from the 1950s debts president ial toys from the 1950s and 60s. This gives us one more piece of evidence because there is a man out there that runs a company producing all the president s not included in the marks set. He produces not only ever one from Richard Nixon to president obama, but also includes David Rice Atchison is the real 12th president or of course, that should be the clinching reason right there. And then, for the opening, we produced some of these little pedestals with David Rice Atchison, a collection of his books and a reproduction of his revolver. It is there with eight nice bronze plaque. It is not actual bronze. The Daily National intelligence r, this was the cause for our major expansion. And this is something i think, i will share with you that i have been looking for this for that there was an article on this newspaper about David Rice Atchison as president for a day. I looked and looked and finally i found a citation saying where this came from. The day i found the date of the National Intelligencer that had this little paragraph i showed you earlier, i opened up my computer and i started looking online that evening when i got home. First thing i looked at was a Library Website to see who might hold microfilm of the Daily National intelligencer. This was several years ago. I had absolutely no luck of finding any listing for anyone with that. I said, i will take a chance. I know the date. I will look on ebay. I opened up ebay. This is within 24 hours of when i found the date. I opened up ebay. I typed it in. And there was one copy of a Daily National intelligencer for sale. It was the date i was looking for. It had that in it. I think this is one of those signs that we were meant to find this as evidence to present to you. [applause] and i hope you will consider visiting the David Rice Atchison worlds smallest president ial library. [applause] chris, thank you so much. That was terrific. I think we have a little bit of time if anybody has a question about the atchison administration or David Rice Atchisons career as a senator, or what he did in his post senate, postcivil war career. Chris is pretty knowledgeable about all of these topics, and he will be happy to answer your questions. Yes, sir. I was always under the impression that the line of succession was president , Vice President , speaker of the house and then president pro tem of the senate. Is that not true . Mr. Taylor that is the way it is today. In 1849 of president pro tem was before the speaker. Back then, it was president , Vice President , speaker pro tem and then speaker of the house and then secretary of the state. Mr. Taylor at one point it was switched. You are correct. But that is the way it is today. How much did you have to pay for the paper . [laughter] mr. Taylor i cannot find it in my records. I think it was 18 or 22. It was not too much for an 1849 newspaper. It is beautiful paper that will last forever. Good evening. My name is david reed acheson. My brother is robert dean acheson. My name is spelled like dean acheson, secretary of state under harry truman. Our family felt the David Rice Atchison was hung over on his day as president. We are yankees. From northern illinois. And im sure the newspapers irritated my family. We spelled our name acheson but not originally. It was at when churches kept track of birth records and death records. Counties did not do that a long time ago. I lose count, but my great great grandfather changed the spelling of his sons name in the church records. The one thing i have been steadily learning more about david rice was, like you said, it was not all bad. I went to your museum. It is a very nice museum. And i talked to the ladies there and i said, my father went to platte city where David Rice Atchison is buried. Next to his grave is five children and no wife. Well, that was more fire for our family until i found out that he was never married. His brother died and he raised these children. So i had to call off the wolves, my sister and my brother. But we follow this closely. The chicago tribune, years ago, did a big story on his one day event. But i wish i knew the dates. Mr. Taylor i found a number of things. This popped up in dear abby. There was an interesting conversation. Everyone said he was not president who wrote in but she , said he was. The David Rice Atchison, he came from kentucky, of course, and his father was a minister. Im not sure how many brothers and sisters he had off the top of my head, but there are other branches that originate from kentucky as well. But there seem to be a number of different atchisons. Whether they are interrelated, i dont know. Thank you for your marvelous presentation today, sir. Seems to me a terrible dichotomy in that he would champion the rights of native americans while holding slaves. Over . Mr. Taylor i agree with you. One of the things i always point out is when you are looking at this time period, if you like with 2014 eyes you are not getting an accurate idea. You have to put in place of what is common practice at the time. And, you know, that is very difficult, and there is no defense for slavery. That is how he grew up. He grew up in a family who owned slaves in kentucky. And that was part of his family, what happened in that. It was kind of accepted. As a senator and later on he was usually considered to be very fair. How does slavery fit into that . Everyone who owned slaves, are they all horrible people . They are participating in something that is terrible, but it was something that happened. And we have to kind of factor that in from how and looking at who he was. Yes . You mentioned his quandary about what to do about his slaves. Do you have any information about what happened to them . Mr. Taylor the only thing i have come across in a high of been told by couple of people is that he put it in his will for his slaves to be free. He did not die until 1886. Of course, that has no bearing on reality. My understanding he sent one of his slaves, he sent them to be employed at his property in missouri, because during the time he was in the senate he had a body servant, who went with him everywhere. It is believed that is who he sent back to missouri to be employed on his farm and continue working for him. The other slaves, as far as i can tell, i do not have any details, i dont know if they were left in texas or sent somewhere else. He usually seemed willing to pay to put them in a better situation, since he could no longer protect them as he saw it. You have to take it with a grain of salt what was happening at the time. What i now wonder about is the fact that he was a missouri senator, but they named the town after him in kansas. Can you explain how that happened . Mr. Taylor well, like i said, he was the godfather of the kansas territory. He had a real interest in what was happening in kansas. Seven of his friends from platte missouri, came up the Missouri River when kansas was open for settlement. They came up the river looking for an investment. They wanted to include David Rice Atchison in this investment. They found the site of atchison, kansas. It was this beautiful open site, open to the river, went out on a level playing out to the prairie beyond. So it was a great investment site. They named it for David Rice Atchison because they wanted the good things that would come with having his name associated with it because he would draw interest to it because he was so influential. It would be a few years before he started dragging his name through the mud, or the new york tribune dragged his name through the mud. He came in, in the city of atchison in kansas when they sold the first town lots. And he actually was one of the first lot holders in atchison although he gave his interest away. He never kept any property in kansas. He gave it away to a man named james hadley, a lawyer, identified as his nephew. I cannot find where that family relation works out, if he was actually his nephew or distant relation. But he was in atchison. He did support it early on. He was an early Property Owner within the town and then he gave his interests away to someone else. Supposedly the kept a room reserved for him in one of the hotels in atchison so they could say he was a kansas Property Owner and could come into support the various activities of the polls. But those were his friends more so than him directly doing that. I grew up in Clinton County, missouri, and plattsburgh is the county seat. There has always been a statue there of David Rice Atchison. Was his land, his farm maybe considered part of plattsburgh . Im not sure why he has been there. Mr. Taylor that was probably around in front of the courthouse, correct . I do not know if that is the original courthouse. He probably worked in that courthouse because he was a lawyer. Ok. Mr. Taylor that is probably why it is located there but he did own property in Clinton County. He did have quite a bit of property at one point. That is where he lived and he is buried there. He is buried in Clinton County . Mr. Taylor there is a Youtube Video that i wanted to use tonight but i could not figure out how to yank it up on youtube. I forgot to bookmark it. It shows someone coming out to find his grave, and is completely covered by grass. I did not realize he was buried there. Ok. Mr. Taylor it is one of those things for the unknown presents that his grave unknown president s that his grave is covered by grass. Chris, i cannot thank you enough for giving us a great deal of thought about whether or not who was really the 12th president . Mr. Taylor who thinks David Rice Atchison was president for 24 hours . And who doesnt . I think they accept the nomination. [applause] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2020] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] next, Nancy Thorndike greenspan talks about her book atomic spy, the dark lives of klaus fuchs. The Leon Levy Center for biography hosted this event and provided the video. She explains how she discovered klaus fuchs while researching her previous book. Lets go at it. I was asking you why klaus fuchs inste