She died in 18 talks about the struggles she faced and running for president and she discusses the 1982 president ial election. How do you explain this incredible president ial year . I think i can explain it in terms of the fact that weve sort of gotten to a point in American History now where the American People feel a kind of alienation and cynicism from traditional politics as we have known it, when we are addressing the selection of a person as head of state for years also known as president , the democrats feel that the democrats and republicans are all part of the same traditional package, that there needs to be change in america and that if the change doesnt emanate from the programs and the agenda or the plants of either one of the two parties americans have gotten to the point where they are willing to make that change outside of the regular two party structure. But how do you think we got to that point . I ask you because youve been involved in politics for a long time in clean your own run for president that will talk about later. So what is it that got us to this point . How did the parties get disconnected from the people . I think theres a combination of factors. First of all, the parties havent been able was to be patronage dispensers, particularly on the state and local levels, particularly on those levels. The offices pertaining to the partisan offices are no longer across the nation. It seems to me that people became very disinterested as result of the series of punitive expenses in this country, that turned them off. Kareen gate, as tech, watergate and the fantastic national scandals that came, about the snl situation and the situation pertaining the iran people are really frustrated and weve got to the point where theyre really not holding on to holding two persons this is fairly in either of the two parties. Theyre saying enough is enough. We at this point in the year 1982, were going to do something to really brink about chase cars were fed up. I traveled around, the rural communities, we find people saying the same think over and over again, a different terms. Were fed up, dont ask me about issues. We want someone to bring about change, thats the most important word that you hear now constantly. Everybody is talking about change. Do you think that thats your explanation for the its part of it, they see him as a man who isnt doing any error and who has kept very close to his overall agenda but all the know is that from the little bit that they have heard, is that he has been a man of action. He doesnt talk a whole lot, he gets things done, hes an activist. And the American People are becoming sick and tired of the same political rhetoric every four years from both parties, that nothing really changes. So they are our going to follow him if they have to because they know that their quality of life has deteriorated so badly that it couldnt possibly be any worse in responding to his their needs than any of the two parties. Its a strange phenomena. You grew up in the Democratic Party, do you think that it will survive the cycle . Oh the democratic sir party will survive, im quite sure it will survive. I also sense a growing, growing disenchantment if the party is to the extent of establishment of a third party not based on race however but based on class. And you go to farm communities its amazing to hear the farmers tell you its time for a third party, you know the farmers they have been loyal to the Republican Party, or to the Democratic Party. These are not the people who usually go off in other directions and say try that, try this you can think of firm country to be of a radical nature if thats the term that you just use. But people are being fed up and thats all over the country so we have a third party involved i think in the next six to eight years just a little bit surprised. Are americans ideological do you think . Or do you think they want things to get done . I dont think that americans are basically ideological, i really believe that they want to get things done. They have seen their tax paying dollars being utilized for all kinds of foreign aid programs, and all that. They have been waiting on the peace dividend because its been promised to them that when the war in the gulf is over that we would use the money now to rebuild our towns and cities and villages, and the test been nothing but rhetoric. So now they are willing to say we would like to get a change. Can you mention people get into a point where they dont know what the candidate stands for. Whats his agenda . And every educator ive met, black or white, theyve said to me straight i dont care what mr. Says im not interested, hes a man of action. I thought thats very dangerous if people in this country get to the point that theyre not really interested in what the gentleman or the candidates agenda is because theyre fed up. Lets go back. Here we are the 20th and adversary of your own race for president in 1972. See what thinking did you had when you announced for president . And how was it received . Well in the first place, might now segment for president was made on the basis of two states in the union. The people told me, mrs. Shirley chisolm we have to have some change in government. The time has come, we need to move in the direction of hoping that some day, some way, somehow, a black man or a woman can be president. A black person rather, a woman can be president. Mrs. Chisolm you have a knowledge of the issues, you are bilingual, you articulate well, you become a catalyst. So thats how the states of minnesota and florida, thats two states. At that time, 1972 florida had less than a population. And minnesota had less than 3 population. Why those two states . I had been doing some public speaking and when i emerson this country everybody wanted to know, who Shirley Chisolm was. Whos this black women who is going to be the pursed person of her sex and raced enter the United States as a representative so i did a lot of speaking and they found out that i was very intelligent, fearless, had a knowledge of issues, not afraid, and they said we desire that you can bring about some change. Oh i was afraid because i remember saying to them we dont run for the presidency of this country on the basis of a model feeling or commitment you need money. I didnt ask for many, but amazingly with the three months time the state of florida and the state of missouri give 3000 dollars each. I got frightened when they called and said we raised money. I want to back out. I became afraid, because i never believe this would have happened. And it happened and i had to make my mind up. And once i said no you cant go back. You threw out a kind of in direct challenge to them and you cant do this with people so i made my mind up and i was good to make a big, and all hell broke loose when i announced who did you announce and to whom . In brooklyn new york. I stand before today as a candidate for the democratic nomination for the presidency of the United States of america. In the michael district, the 12th Congressional District i announced to the people in the community, and a number of friends that are aware of my announcement came in from cities particularly along the eastern seaboard, the church was jammed and the excitement that was there. And all of the enthusiasm that was there, that a black woman for the first time, in the United States of america c[ccnhd the atrocity and nerve to say that she wanted to become the president. I can see the picture now it was so exciting. But also beneath that excitement, the idea that a person other than a white male could and should be president , was part of the entire drum of why is it that in the United States of america only white males could be president . So here i was, a twofer. Not only a woman but a black person. So i was representing in a sense a black person, and a female person. So i campaigned in the beginning, was swamped with a lot of blacks and women around me and thats how it got off the ground but believe you me, it wasnt easy. After i made that announcement and i began going around the country it was a real league of nations held broke loose. The reason help broke loose is because how dare you . Have you forgotten that you are a woman, have you forgotten that you are black and you are the repress or . Whos telling you these things . A lot of the black males at the time had negative feelings about my announcement, and a lot of the white males. It was the males. It was the meals that gave me the fifth, i can remember so distinctly, so many incidents in which they felt i was going the wrong direction. Can you mention one incident and the one name . Its 20 years you know. I know its 20 years, but i know in terms of the black males, sir i dont want to call a name because there were so many of them had the feeling because they felt that if you want to have a black person enter the presidency it should be a black woman, it should be a blackmail. So that gets in the way and not only that the black mills were really enjoyed with me because theyre having this big conference here in indiana, this black conference where was the mayor and they were coming together to fight a black person to run for president. Shirley chisolm had jumped the gun and they felt that the shouldnt get our approval. The fact of the matter is i was very cognizant of the fact that i would never get their approval because they would feel that i was crazy, that i needed to be placed on each street jacket. So i to be cognizant of the fact that there were sentence citizens of the country that raise money to make the bid because they thought that i possess leadership qualities, i had a clear understanding of the issue. I was a fear in this woman and i was intelligent. That was all. But a lot of folks, thought i was black and i was a woman. How did the womens groups that existed at the time respond to your candidacy . It was half and half, some responded positively and have to not. But the amazing thing that shocked me was i think from about three years but the woman from the southern part of the country responded to my candidacy more sincerely, than the women in the north. I can tell you stories about what women in the south women in mississippi lost their jobs because the white male power structure cutter reminding them that Shirley Chisolm is a black woman. The men would respond she is a black woman but she has what it takes to bring about change. White women lost their jobs and parts of mississippi because they wouldnt pull back from my candidacy. In florida, when i landed in tallahassee, the airport was gm with white and black women. In the north i found in many instances that while that northern white women were seeing Shirley Chisolm from florida, a feminist leader. While they were giving me my beautiful rhetoric they were destroy me behind the scenes, so even today many of the white women in the north of my generation, nut the younger people they dont really know me. Theyre granddaughters people ask me, you were the first woman who happened to be block to make a serious bid for the presidency in terms of going about the country and participating, not the first woman to run for president but the first woman who traditionally did what you must do, not talking about some of the other woman who had run for president. They didnt do what i did they just it was just us and i said yes but i must always remind you that it was primarily the woman in the south that put me across and gosh, some of the people in new york got really angry but the truth is the truth. I was surprised, i was very very surprised by what happened to me in new york but its very true that i didnt make the bid for the presidency on the basis of new york, i made it on the basis of minnesotas who say good. How did your Campaign Play out . I know you campaigned in the primaries and you did go to the convention, take us through that process briefly. While i was campaigning, i campaigned in three states i think, while i campaigned there were three things that i met constantly. I met constantly the fact that black men and white men were very very low in attendance at the rallies, and the meetings were i was making appearances. That was very obvious to me. Second, i ran into divisions within the particular cities where i ran because i the black people in the white people particularly the feminists were actually having disagreements, because im a woman, they felt shes our, candidate we sponsored. Her the black candidates that oh shes black so shes one of. Us but in many cases didnt pay to bring the in so they were trying to jump on the bandwagon and the white women were like we brought her in so we can schedule. Her i just had to hide until the two got together and settled their disagreements. I will tell you very funny story. I remember when i went to tallahassee, all these cars in the airport to meet me, they must have been, maybe about 50 cars. White women, black women, a few black men, and it was exciting time, pedal their lack carson, everything and then the plane landed, and i got off the plant in with my two aides, the black community and the White Community rushed to to take me off to the rally and while they were taking me, while they were taking me to their car. Shes one of us, she is a sister, i found this tiny white man, i dont think he was even five foot tall and he was screaming and laughing and he had on this hat. Chisolm for president. It felt like he was in the world on his own and i went over to him and i said thank you so much. Can i get into your car and you take me to the and they will stop fighting at fussing and they will follow. And he said i dont have a number one car. I said does it move . He said yes. He was so excited. He got me into the car and off we went, the myth i got into his car all of the rockies, the outburst stop and they all jumped into the car, trying now to follow that car. I will never forget that as long as i live. How many delegate votes did you get in the convention . I got 158 confederate votes at the convention. It was amazing that mississippi, if i can remember, if its not exactly there its near there. I got exactly 12 votes from mississippi, i got 27 of the louisiana votes, ive got a large number ive got more votes from the south, and many of the persons that indicated to me said Shirley Chisolm go ahead make the run, youve got to have some change in america. If facts for change youre not shrinking, you certainly are not. But youve got to remember to go to the south. If i didnt go to the south i would have fallen completely flat on my face. Did you get primetime podium time at the convention . Oh yes, and the ones that jumped up and scoop the loudest because the delegation was sitting at the front. The alabamians delegation, and it was a strange thing because georges campaign through robert the year, 13 of us were running, governor lindsey in a whole bunch of. Us remember even florida, George Wallace would tell the folks if you cant vote for me in the primary, dont vote vote for those pointy headed liberals vote for Shirley Chisolm. People felt that i had entered the pack with George Wallace. Because of that i lost on florida and votes. I was beating john lindsey in the primary. John lindsey had a private meeting with me when in new york, he was mayor at the time. He said surely, were getting out the vote. He did everything to try to get me off of the i said john my time has come have to do this. I will never forget that as long as i lived. Of course into it wasnt as great as it used to be, after i refused to pull out of that race in florida. But i must tell the world that it was the south that really took me across, and many of my friends and people in new york are angry because they want the world to feel that because im a new yorker and i did come from new york, that they were the ones that pushed me out. Theyre the ones wanting nothing could be further from the truth. Whats your messed for the convention . My message for the convention was basically that the time has come. Being in america can no longer be the complicit, passive recipients of whatever our nation may decree for us. At the time its come that we must look at other americans who have the attributes of, leadership who have knowledge of the issues, to make a bid in a unequivocal manner for the presidency of the United States of america decided to accept this challenge and here i am today to his you. Will did you ever think you are on a short list to become the Vice President ial nominee . No i never fooled myself, people most of that oh she thinks shes going to be president. Look im fairly intelligent and i was smart enough to know i can be president. Somebody has to be a catalyst for change when you are attempting to bring out change in america and i always thought of myself as a catalyst for change. Were approaching 20 years anniversary for watergate and im wondering if during that year you followed the news reports, as 80 inside politician of sorts, did you see or detect or wonder about what leader came to be known as dirty tricks . Oh yes because i was the victim of donald out in california. In fact, the people of california called me. Donald he had circulated some information donald is who . Donald is one of the tricks trust in the nixon campaign, his job was to derail the candidacies of the candidates who were running, he said some awful things about humphrey and husky but look at what was said about Shirley Chisolm. Shirley chisolm had been released from a Mental Institution a few years ago and it is known that she rubs feces on the walls of the rooms in her home and the paper at home is yellow and crumpled. What device did he used to get that information out . Leaflets. How do you know that it was Donald Segretti . Because my friend in california sent me all the leaflets that were centered at that time Donald Segretti said he didnt do it but at the time it came out that he did it. There were other negligent and untruthful things that were said about me. There was that about others. The most slimy sleazy types of remarks, and my folks later he apologized to all of us. Personally . Not personally, but by the media. Newspapers. Do you think the tricks had any effect on your campaign . No, not really. Some other people what was Jesse Jackson doing at the time . What was his role in politics . Jesse jackson never supported me in the presidency. I supported him in 84 and 88. He called them we often to do a lot of things but Jesse Jackson never really supported me for presidency. Did you ask for a support . At that time it was back in 72, Jesse Jackson of course was in line with black power in indiana that were trying to stop me. He was part of the machismo group that felt that black women who didnt consult the brothers have no business running for president. I understood that, im not holding i understood why. Theyre very full of machismo. So were going backwards, were back to 1968. A new district had been created in the borough of brooklyn, giving an opportunity for the first time for the thousands of black and hispanic peoples for a chance when that came out. It was felt that once again a black man should run. A group of representatives from Community Organizations held a series of interviews that about five of us wanted to see. Where we stood, our community, work the majority voted for me although i was a woman. You know if i had survived. If i survived those years that i was moving up politically, i can survive anything. I cried many nights because i was misinterpreted. She wants to take things away from the black man. She wants to divide the black men from the black women. All this crazy stuff coming from the wall. I understood our history. I understood why the men would feel this way. They would feel this way because actually they felt the time had come for black man, it was black mens turn and nobody could get in the way including black women. So i understood that. But it was hurting, many of the things that were said about. Many many of the misunderstandings, and many of the misinterpretations of by past give the feeling that i was some kind of horrible little monster. What did they say . They said she is no right running for the congress if a black person is running for congress it should be a male. Where their personal attacks . There were personal attacks but not many. Most of them were mail you ran against james farmer. Oh yes. Was that general . He was the republican. He was what at that time . He was the republican. But he had a National Reputation . He was james farmer, a bright articulate beautiful voice, and he give the impression that you have to vote for Shirley Chisolm. Did he live in the district . No he lived in new york. A schoolteacher, with the she no . I we had a truck going across the Manhattan Bridge leaving his drop in Lower Manhattan going into brampton camping for a congressional seat. He wanted that newlycreated seat in brooklyn so i developed the three things that i think helped me eventually then, number one. He wasnt a resident in brooklyn. From what i understood, i he had secured a little room. Number two. He didnt realize how fluent in spanish i was so i would speak in english, and then i would speak in spanish, the first time he heard me speak spanish i see his mouth open up right now, he just couldnt get over that, and then certainly james got to the point where this thing was so strong during that time. It got to the point where every morning people would go back to work, he had this young looking blackmon, giving up this literature and the drums, the man from the house. And kind of going on. I began to feel bad. No dont feel badly, accept the challenge. I knew and i always had the feeling there were more women in the district. So i ran for election and 2. 7 women to district and then i went back and i sent out a call to the Women Leaders in the district, black, white, italian, jews and said we have to go to war. And it was normalized. How much did you win . Three to one. Mobilized. Then you go to washington and tell the story of your Committee Assignment. laughs the moment i got a washington it was understood that he would be seen and not heard. You accept whatever committee you are assigned to, they place me on a Agricultural Committee rule villages, the more i thought about it the more angry i got they come from a city air and theyre gonna put their first representative on a committee doing roll forestry villages. The more i thought about it i was like no this is madness. I spoke with the congressman and i told them how i thought and they said youll get your Committee Assignment eventually budget to take this time of that the committee gives you. And men told me, this is what angered me, they said you are right but you talked about. I said rock, adams rock adams i would say is the first white congressman that befriended me and looked out for me. I would never forget that. Whats he doing now . Brock adams is the secretary, hes no longer in congress because of a series of misadventures that putt took him. But i told brock, i told him what i was going to do. I was going to put remove my name from the forestry, and rural Villages Committee and ask for another assignment that has more relevant sleet to that district. Brexit surely you can do it, but you are committing political suicide before you started. I heard that 100 times if Shirley Chisolm its going to challenge the speaker, shes going to challenge the speaker of the committee. Who was the speaker at the time . Macomb it. John mccormack was the speaker. He was the chairman of the committee that makes the silence, and i thought now the word had came out that Shirley Chisolm was going to cause a little bit of ruckus. So i called the speaker. I wanted to be fair, it came from the statements that went to disrupt the tradition of the house of representatives. I said mrs. Speaker, i just want you to know that the democratic office, im going to ask for a change of Committee Assignment because it does not make sense for me to be sitting even for two years on a committee that has absolutely no relevancy. Even if they had been dealt with hot lunch and what have you, it might have made a little bit more sense but we what foolishness is this . So i said to the chair, i forgot what i would speak into the speaker, i was so upset. I said mister speaker, im going to have to do my thing. It was my favorite phrase at that time, and the speaker said to me your tough to do what . I said oh excuse me mister speaker are quick to do what i have to do and go with cedric. He said to be beaten out and i said ill take the chair. I could tell from the tone of his voice. That day a lot of the men usually dont go to the democratic caucus. The balcony was filled with reporters because so i came in, but they had made a plan, that Shirley Chisolm deserves to be recognized in the caucus, four or five men who had seniority over me had to raise their hand and the speaker from the day was recognize there. Now for a while Shirley Chisolm will get tired jumping up and down like a jackrabbit, if that i would get scared and didnt know me. I found myself going up and down and i know the could see me because im very visible. I decided one thing. I was so mad, i had some votes. I put the notes on my seat, and i walked down with the speaker calling right down to the house, and the men, anything as a diversionary tactic, they said go surely. There will be order in this house. And what happened, after i got down to the end of the, house i simply became frightened. What am i going to do . And the speaker, i dont know the speaker could hop off the case so quickly. He knocked off the, case looked at the side to me. They had their Heads Together and whatever it was, he recognized him and im standing right there and he was in a scary tone, for what purpose does the gentlewoman of the the great empire state of new york stand in the house . laughs i thought when he did that, using those, tones again that i could run out and i said its time as i know. Mister chairman, for the past 35 minutes ive been attempting to gain recognition, and im a highly visible person in this house of representatives. For whatever reasons maybe your speaker hasnt recognized me so i have the best thing to do would be to develop the hustle and something very important to say, that the gentlewoman from the borough of the empire state of new york to have five minutes. It seemed like all of you just moved out of a treat for brooklyn. I want you to know that im asking, him im putting in and men meant for assignment, it assignment that has a little more relevancy to the district that i represent. Not forestry of rural areas and villages. Surprisingly, no one had ever done this in the house. I was a bad child, but you know something. They went back and they did give me a committee that had more relevancy to the district. Better than a district of forced entries, after i did that, they committed they started to put them not in the crazy committees but they would speak up. They later told me they wanted to keep me hidden before i started blossoming in the house and they were shocked, i told them i knew thats what you were trying to do but youre not the kind of person i am. Who was your closest leadership ally in the house those days . Who did you look to . Did you have a mentor or did you need one . No i didnt have a mentor because the gentlemen, that whats funny about the house of representatives is that the democrats they admired me and they like my spoken us, my feisty spirit but i think theyre a little bit afraid to too closely aligned with me because they know that the speaker didnt take too kindly because i was rebellious in terms of not accepting a sound that didnt make sense. And of course, because of the patronizing system they wanted to assure that they were getting their first. So walking down the hall, the speaker was just getting together. Going to the air show, was this the paris . They were talking and then all of a sudden they disappear, the speaker was coming down the hall and they didnt want to feel that they were that close to me. It was a strange thing because those guys live on the basis of certain imagine i was in the house, i dont go home. I didnt behave myself and both speakers, they used to always tell me you know, i just wanted to do with you. They ask we dont want to go to the air show and i told them straight, if i want to go through the air show i can pay my fair. They looked at me like this doesnt happen. I realized you know some 16 or 18 years later, how progressive i was. Why the gentlemen and people in politics looked at me the way they did because i did things youre not supposed to do but in the process of doing them, i opened up new approaches, i paid for it in terms of not being the nice person. That didnt bother me. I dont go there to get. Perks why did you get quit . I could because since the inception i set from the inception of my political career never do i intend to spent all of my creative and productive years in the political arena. I never intended to be dragged out in a box chain were practically dying i also supplemented my leaving that the Reagan Administration had come in, and i saw so many things that we had done during the Civil Rights Movement or what have you starting to fade away for my face and eyes, people in my own district for taking it out on me because i could no longer deliver like i used to be able to deliver, under the Carter Administration and what have you and so i decided this was the moment for me to go out and do other things because of the fact that i knew on based on this fact i became a fiercely professor. I did a lot of visiting professor ships all over the country and i love the young people. So did a lot of seminars, i do a lot of speech writing for politicians. Who . Are you tell us who . I cant do that. I want to tell you ask you a few more questions about congress . What would you change about congress to make more effective . I dont think that the congress of the United States is representative of the population that makes up this country. This country is a multifaceted, multi racial, multi ethnic land. How would you change the constitution . Im not gonna talk about changing the constitution im talking about whats happening now. More women getting out there and running and women when ink. More hispanics and African Americans accepting the challenge, it doesnt necessarily mean that you will win but you have to have the guts and courage of your convictions to help bring about change through your own actions. Not change through. Rhetoric is in that happening right now . Its the most wonderful think. Im so glad that 20 years leader i have lived to really see whats happening. And of course in the year 1932 90 20, to the impetus for people to go out there is when they look at these, and so all these white males making determinations about an issue that affected women and no woman having a voice, that was the determining voice for this. Year we have to get out and start running. Whether or not you think of picks up the challenge. Had you been on the Senate Judiciary committee what you think would have happened . I probably wouldnt have been able to get the vote but i certainly would have spoken out in the way that you are questioning. I didnt like it for one moment when i saw you know orrin hatch and this other guy from wyoming. Simpson. Particularly those two, and then his prosecutorial tone. Its a good thing i wasnt on the committee because the probably would have taken me out. You watched all that we can i take it. I couldnt take my eye off the screen, the fear story that was happening. It wasnt the fact that they didnt have to do what they felt they have to do because politics is so darn partisan, the republicans have made it so that you have to get on the bench and the democrats have made their minds up that they had to make sure you didnt get on the debate, so politics being what it is people engaging in all kinds of trucks and what have, you but what they were doing, it it was how they were doing it. It just did something to me. One of the Big Questions is do you believe him or her . Its hard because neither one of us were there. We dont know what really happened. Do you have a feeling in your gut . I have a feeling that there was something on both sides of that issue and i dont consider going to. That there was something a both sides of the issue that doesnt have anything to do with politics. Thats all i have to say. How do you think black leadership would have evolved had Martin Luther king remained alive . I think of nothing else, Martin Luther king is what black leader in this country and era who had the uncanny ability and skills and articulation to issue a call to bring the black leaders together. The majority of black leaders together, theres not one today that can really bring all the black leaders together, progressives, what have you. As Martin Luther king would have outlined for, us an agenda of where we think that we want to head doesnt necessarily mean that we would have accepted, it but he commanded the respect, he had the integrity, and the principles which a lot of leaders dont have today. Theres no integrity, theres no principles, theres a lot of political expediency that goes on and doesnt emanate from the heart. Its what you can get out of it and what have you. I think that had merchant luther king been here today that we might not have found ourselves in a kind of position in which there doesnt seem to be any longer any unanimity of purpose amongst the black leaders who paint agent up for the future of our people. This is very frightening to me. How much longer do you think that race will be a central issue in American Public affairs . It will always be a central issue. Race in this issue, in this country the country is founded in. Racism is rendered us so vulnerable in our tax from opponents both in this country and outside this country. Remember the document of this land was lit written and miss only the 13th or 14th or 15th amendment that we were finally five fifths of a person this country was born and bred in racism. I dont really believe that we will every rig the radical racism in america but i must say honestly that they have been improvements over the years. There have been improvements and right now in this point in time i sometimes feel that we are back in the 19 fifties as i travel throughout the country once again, and i see whats happening. I go back to the 19 fifties and theres been erosion of so many of the things that we made. I dont think we could ever get rid of racism in america, but im sorry to say but my gut tells me. That i hope im wrong but thats what i feel at this moment. Have you ever thought of yourself as a victim . Of racism . I used the word victim because as you know theres a lot of discussion about the victim mentality of minorities. Not necessarily blacks, and theres the criticism that the black leadership encourages the sense of victimization because then that provides a rationale for seeking help from the government, and i wonder if you accept that or is there another way to think of it . No i dont see it that way. At all. After put it in this kind of perspective. After put it in the sense that whatever these leaders have been able to utilize that has worked in some way, and it has broad it to the benefit of african American People and it was successful, that they feel in many instances that this is the way that they should always go. They are not very experimental, theyre not very creative in terms of looking at new ways of doing things. Not only blacks, what leaders as well. We always become a little satisfied and complacent if we follow something that has worked even if its no longer appropriate for the times that we are living in. I think its more a kind of a faulty of human nature that does this kind of think and thats what even today everybody is trying upset or worried about the fact that ross perot is out there hes not a democrat or a republican or whatever. Democrats are falling behind. You know youre going away from tradition in his own way hes being creative if you can say that. Everyone is focusing on ras instead of focusing on the agenda that will make American People who have become cynical about the traditional ways of doing things returned to a focus on ross perot instead of correcting the inequities in the grievances that the American People have indicated for quite some time in america. This right there in my humble opinion is going to be a bloodless, Many Political revolution. I see it coming. I see it, its going to be some convention both at the Republican Party convention and the Democratic Party convention. Why then, if that so, why do you think that the Republican Convention will be something other than just a renomination of the president and Vice President . I think that because surprisingly enough eight large number of republican women and some of my best friends are republicans. A large number of republican women are going to say were not going to take this anti abortion issue. Im not going to use the word they use any more. I could see that the Republican Convention kind of a outburst and i put the word outburst in quotes that the whole abortion the way we see it at the Republican National convention come that way. At the democratic convention, when you know that in the city of new york its already been indicated that youre going to have all kinds of delegations out there in the streets. Theyve got to make sure that they have a place to keep them away. Youre going to have pro abortion, pro choice forces, the homeless building their own tent out there. Youre going to have the gay community, neither the republicans or democrats have paid attention to our issues and because new york is a very overt, a spoken place were anything and everything goes, i see, and i also hope that that convention doesnt come about like the one in 1968 in chicago. We have all of these different groups out there, rebelling. And all the people you could see on the screen, the policeman. Im very concerned. Well in the time remaining, you retired from politics in 1982, what have you been teaching . I have been teaching, the role of women in america. I have been teaching the history of black women in america and ive been taking teaching congress, power and politics. And my classes are very unusual in that i do not get up before the class and pontificate. I conduct the class in terms of my experiences. Give them some basic premises, in regards to all through these aries areas. And then theres a dialog going on between myself and the students. And many of the supervisors, and person in Higher Education who have taken my classes, have made me feel very proud. They say that your classes are the most exciting live classes. And everywhere i go the students and professors asked me to come back. But i have not gone back to many universities, i want to do as many universities as i can. And since i spoken to you, i have been in over 225 universities and colleges of this country, for the past 25 years of my life. And i love young people, and i dont feel that we spend enough time with them and at this stage of my life, i consider myself a states woman, i consider myself a mentor and i consider myself a person who is happy to be able to pass on information to the next generation, whatever benefit you can get out of the experiences i have had. How do you explain a reports and surveys that show Voter Participation of young people way down. Theres a reason for it because theyve been listening to all this rhetoric. Theyve been listening to the dividend the comes back to the people of this country, and they dont have to worry about this rhetoric. To complete their fouryear education. These kids i spoke with them, they are fighting to death. They want to complete their education, theyre already in college, and they wonder if theyre going to have the opportunity to go to college because he tuition is so high. Between their parents and their grandparents, its what they talk about korea gate, billy, gate and they become cynical like a lot of the adults. And who needs. It your own students, who you say would who are engaged and theyre intellectually alive, do you think they go out to vote and become stand up citizens . A lot of them do a lot of them, do but the amazing thing is that they refuse, a disproportionate number of them, do not want to register as democrats or republicans, they want to register as independents. So when i discussed with them, you know theres some basic philosophy in democratic and as republicans. So you can make a choice. But we are not interested in this situation, with a party philosophy, we want to look at the person, and the persons patter own pattern of behavior will indicate to us. They are not as hung up on traditional parties as we older folks are. They not they are not as hung up on the structure as we are. How old are you. I am 67 years of age. How do you feel. I feel like 30. Seven what are your plans. I live my life now one data time. I have no specific plans, since my husband passed away five years ago, and people really came back to me and said surely, we need that righteous voice of indignation out there, and coming back there. And i said my time is past, and i would rather train, and mentor and help younger blacks, and younger women. Who are perfectly and i am perfectly contented with a life and leading at this time. Its probably urge early to ask this of a 37 year old woman, but laughs . That makes me older than you. So what would you like, for your epitaph. Thats interesting you should ask me that, i really have you know i dont want to be, i dont want to be known as the first African American woman nominated to congress. Or the first female, who happened to be African American who do that. I would rather like to be, you know read like surely truism, a governance for change, in the 20th century who happened to be an African American female. I want to be known as, a catalyst for change. Because thats how i regard myself. Surely chisholm thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. These authors talk about their book, the origin of Donald Trumps america, analyzing the president s political tactics and appeal to workingclass white americans which they compared to