Transcripts For CSPAN3 U.S. Domestic Politics Treaty Of Versailles 20240712

Museum in kansas city hosted this event and provided the video. Our guest speaker Gary Armstrong teaches American Foreign policy in programs and washington d. C. Hes a professor of Political Science in liberty, missouri. He graduated with a ph. D. From Georgetown University. Gary served as Research Assistant to francis you can jada, a political scientist, political economist and author to the former u. S. Secretary of state Madeleine Albright who was here for a private dinner earlier this year to just drop a name or two to impress you. Gary joined the William Jewell college in 1992 and now serves as inaudible director of the International Relations major. The William Jewell college body voted him professor of the year four times. Theory is also a longtime supporter of the National World War One Museum and memorial and for that we are appreciative. Please give doctor Carrie Armstrong a warm welcome. applause good evening and thank you for coming. Tonight there should be a lot of interesting questions. The 100th on a first story of the senates first projection of the treaty of versailles. What a great moment to talk about americas place in the world. It was a time of growing paralyze asian, and radicalization. There had been a series of race riots and the current estimate is probably between the summer of 19 and the summer of 21 about 1000 americans were killed. But they would get the worst in race riots that i think led to the first bombing of an American City by our own air force. At the same time, there were just two weeks before the senate would take its vote, a series of bombings that led to something called the red scare. It is entirely wrongly named. The people who did the bombings were anarchists, but attorney general palmer, whose own house was bombed in one of those raids, launched a series of very vigorous raids to detain about 10, 000, and to arrest about not 3000 anarchists. The about 550 were deported. It is a time when we have race riots. We have radicals. We have the government using force. Its also a time, lest we forget, when americans were intensely polarized at the political level as well. On the day that Woodrow Wilson appeared to ask the u. S. Congress for a declaration of war in april 1917, his famous speech had to be postponed. A very important matter had to be settled first, which was who is going to have the speakership of the u. S. House of representatives . And that 1919 u. S. Elections which would throw barely won at the president s level. One of the most closely fought in all of American History. Look at what had happened in the u. S. House of representatives. You had a virtual tie. There were hours of political finagling over who would get the majority. This is the only time that the Largest Party than not get the speakership. The republicans had more seats than the democrats but they did not get the speakership. This is the last time in American History the speakership was giving because the democrats formed a small alliance with small parties. Whats really interesting is that then the house turned to the question of the president s speech and declaration of war. A lot of very interesting members of congress, voted no to the declaration of war. Including the first woman to sit in the u. S. House of representatives who had also by the way voted against war after the japanese attack against pearl harbor. She was a long life long pass fuss and couldnt accept a violation of her principal even if the United States was attacked in 1941. Also interestingly, the man who had just got the speakership of the house of representatives. The president and director of his party, and refused to vote for the declaration of war. This is a time when Great Questions are at stake. People are intensely divided and politics is going to start impacting Foreign Policy. By the way, its also great to have because just as were getting ready to debate how to and world war i a gigantic pandemic breaks out. Today the cdc estimates that about 635,000 americans lost their lives in the great influenza of 1880, 18 and. Notice that kansas city had about 1300 dead. By the way thats significantly larger than st. Louis which is better organized and better at doing with the influence of them was. In the month of october alone and hundred 95,000 americans died. Remember 50,000 americans died of rooms during world war i. And, at about the time that the senate is going to move into the most intense question about what should we do regarding the league of nations, we have the most serious medical crisis in the history of the american presidency. Woodrow wilson has a massive stroke on october the 2nd. He has been on a gigantic and nationwide tour. Towards the end of that tour, they realize there was something seriously wrong with the president. They cleared the railway line, they got back as fast as they could to washington d. C. He had been in washington d. C. Just briefly when he had the massive stroke. For six weeks, his wife maintained the charade that there was nothing wrong with the president. No one was permitted to see the president for six weeks except the first lady, his position, a handful of trusted aides, his own press secretary. Whats really interesting is that mrs. Wilson made a terrible mistake. She isolated the president won what he probably needed the most first long term recovery was consistent interaction with people. That is led to a big argument that were gonna see leader that the president s catastrophic stroke led him to a increasing rigidity in his personality, that will lead him to make fundamental errors during the debate over the versailles peace treaty. Are we talking played . War . Stroke . God bless us were this close to the four horsemen of a couple of ex. It is the first, its the first time that any president of the United States proposed sweeping reforms to the fundamental basis of International Relations. It is the first time that a american president goes abroad for diplomatic relations. President Woodrow Wilson will go abroad for basically seven months. There are people that challenge this. They dont even believe that he has the constitutional right to leave the territory of the United States. This is gonna be the moment that we have the first proposal for a permanent World Organization with something called collective security authority. That tonight is gonna be the heart of the fact that were gonna be exploring in just a minute. This is going to be the first of the United States will consider a treaty that technically, formally, requires a two and its historical isolation. By isolation, im using the definition of using Political Science. A reluctance or avoidance of military commitments to europe. So you could be in favor for example of sending missionaries to china but that doesnt make you a isolationist. You could have been in favor of annexing that would make you a imperialist. But opposed to making any security commitments to europe which could make you simultaneously a imperialist and isolationist. This will be the first time in the history of the body that the senate will invoke klobuchar, to stop the filibusters so they could actually get the business of voting down and this will be the first time of the United States and the senate will reject a peace treaty. And this is how it starts. President wilson landed back in the United States on about july the 8th, 1919, after his longtime in europe. He goes to new york. Then he goes to washington d. C. He carries the bail and, enormous copy of the treaty into the senate. In fact, he is met by henry carat lodge who asked him if youd like help carrying the gigantic treaty and Woodrow Wilson laughs and says not on your life. Ben wilson gives the speech. The stage and astonishes closed, an hour of conceiving but by the hand of god who has let us into his way. We cannot turn back. We can only go forward with lifted eyes and fresh and spirit to follow division. It was of this that we dreamed at our borough. America shall show the way. The late streamed and nowhere else. There we rejected and break the heart of the world. This from the most accomplished rhetoric shun ever to become president of the United States. And his speech was a dud. It was too high. It was too flowery. But is it true stink youre going to see more front page coverage of the speech, he may give the basics of the speech but youre gonna see down here, some really interesting openings being waged. Hey dont forget, we have the right to amend this treaty, and we may have to approve it by two thirds but we can amend it by majority vote oh and by the way the republicans are now the majority, because of the elections of 1918. You will also see that the president reads colors in the room set aside for the president of the United States at the u. S. Capital. 30 democrats want to see the president. One republican. It was the first time that very serious trouble was brewing about the state of the treaty. Now just keep ahead. Here are the votes. So 100 years ago tonight and they closed at 11 pm washington d. C. Time. I think they should stay so we go for the 100 dollars. They vote for a set of reservations, 41 yes. So there is no. The requirement for that set of votes was six to one. The vote for treaty with knows reservations was 38 yes, 55 no. It wasnt even close. That in march of 2020, after four months, they have a debate, another time, and this time the votes go up in part because the votes are absent. So this time for the nine yes. 35 now. The requirement to pass a treaty is 56, so it is failed by seven votes. And they have this thing where it throws that are absent couldnt vote. They could announce what their position would have been and thats how you wind up with this. 67 announced that had theyve been there they would have voted yes, or they did vote yes. 39 said that they were there and voted no, or they would have voted now. That is the highest of the senate ever came, the closest that the senate ever came to passing the versailles peace treaty. Now a lot of people say theres a problem. There was a group inside the senate called the irreconcilables. They said you couldnt get us to vote for this treated with all the horses of the american cavalry. Theres a lot of discussion about this. There is a lot of discussion about how many there were. Im going to be using estimates from a couple different books. Normally youre going to be getting 60 to 18. Im going to lift the 18, and then go to all kinds of fascinating senators. There is there is president Theodore Roosevelts attorney general, and William Howard tufts secretary of state. Eight irreconcilable. There is no way in the world he was going to vote for the treaty. Up there is a new senator from illinois, mccormack. A lot of people say well, thats what happened. These people somehow managed to defeat the treaty. Thats the story. And thats not the story at all. One of those irreconcilable is a complicated character. He is our very own senator james read from kansas city. Senator reed had been in the senate, and would be in the senate for 18 years. He had been the mayor of kansas city from 1900 to 1904 when the Convention City burned and they rebuilt it through fast work. He made it very clear he was a irreconcilable. I will not vote for the treaty because he was a isolationist. But there is Something Else. He was a racist. And he was very direct that he was afraid that the league of nations, with its dark skinned people, would eventually be able to outfit the white skin people, and impose a new order of racial equality at the international level. But im not using some of his more incendiary quotes because they are public quotes least with the n word. For some people of the story of james reid becomes a story of who opposed the treaty. Its provincial list bigotry. Bigotry sank the treaty. Thats not a good understanding of what happened here either. For example, in one of the best books about this. Lets look at this for a minute. A lot of people think that cosmopolitans. People with Foreign Languages, those would be the people most likely to be in favor of the treaties and actually when you study the biography, the people who are the most cosmopolitan members of the senate tended to be the most opposed to the treaty. So for example that news senator mccormack was raised by the diplomat, he used to boast that he learned to speak french before you learned to speak english. He was very involved in global affairs, but he was opposed to the treaty. This is senator knox. The republican who had been a senator tafts secretary of state. He was a irreconcilable, but here is something interesting. During the senate debate, he announced a resolution that we now call the knocks doctrine. It announced that if there were in the future any threat to the peace of europe, that the United States would regard it eight grief matter, consult with friendly governments, and consider the possibility of taking military action to deal with that. In other words, he was a irreconcilable, but not an isolationist. Now some people say, if its not the story of the irreconcilables, or protect possibly provincial bigots, then surely the story is that the American Public opinion wasnt ready for this gigantic step of a huge stride into a formal commitment to join the International Forum politics. So in his book, power with a victory, he writes its time that we kill that mid. We wouldnt have what we would now call Public Opinion polling four years. But what we normally used to gauge what Public Opinion was was to look at where newspapers were and the evidence he says is overwhelming, that there was very strong American Public opinion support for the treaty, and for adjoining the league of nations. Look at that list of newspapers except for the kansas star. Many of them including the st. Louis favored the treaty. He looks at religious organizations which were incredibly important years ago the catholics to choose. Liberal was very in favor of the treaty, we had very strong reservations about one component of the treaty. Civic groups like libertarians and the new American Legion came out in favor of the treaty and adjoining league of nations. Seven state legislatures pass regulations, including the legislatures of california and massachusetts, which happened to be the homes of the most important opponents of the treaty. And the most important brandnew single Issue Advocacy organization in the United States or something called the lead to enforce peace. It had thousands of members all over the country and they had advocated for the treaty. It was led by the former president , William Howard taft. The evidence is this treaty had the Popular Support to be approved. By the way, there were some really interesting intellectuals who are trying to make fundamental decisions about this. So there is the great feminist intellectual worker the whole house of chicago. And theres w. D. C. Deploys. Whether them very disappointed for their previous support of Woodrow Wilson. Adams because the president hadnt been a figurative supporter of constitutional amendment to give women the vote. By the way he supported franchising women, but he didnt support doing it through a constitutional amendment. And then wta be the boys who is furious with wilsons ability to articulate publicly why we need to stop the race riots or lynching. Now whats interesting is both of them thought things over, and decided they nevertheless would support Woodrow Wilson in the league. This is walter, by the 19 sixties and seventies, im told and i have read that theres hardly any serious question of the day that a american and couldnt wait until they read walter n litman and then broke with the republic. He published a major attack on the versailles peace treaty in the league of nations. Thousands of subscribers canceled their subscriptions, angered at the attack on the president. By the way, Walter Litman said 18 years later that this is one of the biggest mistakes of my life. If i could do this over again i would continue to support Woodrow Wilson and not the league. Not only is their support from the public theres also lots of aggravation within the president , among american intellectuals. But overall the possibility of progressive reform is still worth it. But here is why i think he needs help. Heres what we need to know before going ahead. I think by using the stoplight approach we can get a sense of what the balance in the senate was about this treaty, and youre going to suspect something pretty quickly. This is a tragedy. If we take the green and the yellow, then we can see that three quarters of the senate was willing to join the league and pass the treaty. The opponents were small, they were vigorous, they were energetic, but didnt have a votes to stop the treaty. The whole question of whether the treaty would go is could the green and the yellow get together . Now what im gonna do for the next little bit is explain why they didnt. Our antagonists. These are impressive leaders. Woodrow wilson. The only ph. D. In political listen to become the president denied since he probably did so badly that hes probably gonna be the only president who has a ph. D. In Political Science. Notice that he had quite a reputation. He had been quite imported reformer in Princeton University where he was eight convinced christian pressed to patisserie and he led the reform. He had a chaotic elected a system set in for court to have a democracy we all need people who at least know some stuff together. And yet abolished what they called the princeton eating clubs which we would now call fraternities and incompatible with the new quality of american democracy. So he is doing a lot. But i think the most important thing to know but Woodrow Wilson is the date of his birth. And the police of his birth. He was born in virginia, and he was raised by a presbyterian father in south carolina. He said that his earliest memory was running down the street shouting that lincoln had been elected in there would be a. War his home became a headquarters for federal reach army of occupation in the south. Woodrow wilson is the only president the history of the United States to know personally what total defeat looks like. The humiliation. The bitterness. This team of that. How it can corrupt the society out of its anger and humiliation. It is good to have a big impact on how to and world war i. This is Theodore Roosevelt. If i ask my students what do you think about theater roosevelt they see something about the other thing we should remember but Theodore Roosevelt is that he had been that weak boy whose father didnt know his father would survive asthma, and he told his son eventually you must remake your body or it will kill. You he became effectively bodybuilder. Eventually had a chest of like 22 inches. Whats interesting is that he eventually did that. Greek crews of the great white fleet. The symbolic declaration that the United States would become a great world power. That under the sky. Because both of these guys, woodrow and wilson are trying to figure out probably with the leaders of china trying to figure out. Given that we are now probably the most important economic power on the planet, should our Foreign Policy change to match our new economic heft . There are going to debate how to deal with it. Because of his role in ending the rousseau japanese war hes one of the First Americans to win the Nobel Peace Prize. The first wouldbe Woodrow Wilson. So Woodrow Wilson got one of the first new single imported degrees called the ph. D. We were importing them from germany when american at the turn of the century. But henry kept a lodge, one of if not the first phds in history from harvard university, it was in landholding history. Which means that like wilson and roosevelt he could read german. Can you imagine president that can read Foreign Languages . Now he has a long increasingly articulated view of United States place in the world but whats also very interesting is that he hates Woodrow Wilson. Its going to get personal and i love this. I would never fly at harvard and its gonna come right back from the president of the United States. Okay. So how do they start fighting . Im going to tell one story about the debate athena distance that nobody remembers. How to and world war i with imperial germany. This is going to be the most energetic ferocious result on the prerogatives of a president to lead a American Foreign policy in the history of the republic. Were going to have a president who says at the end of world war one im in favor of entering this war by negotiating. Were going to have two Republican Leaders who go to the American People and say, the president is wrong. We have elections in four weeks. If you will vote republican, will force the president of the United States to adopt unconditional surrender, as a policy to end world war i. And the world. Of course the story begins in part with the president s famous speech called the 14 point speech. Now theres a lot of background to this and thats in part because theres a gigantic crisis among the allies because the bolsheviks have opened the sars secret Foreign Ministry archives and they are they found the secret treaties that promised this or that or the other thing to each other if they will defeat germany in the war. The bolsheviks of the treaties and they convince people all over germany we are fighting simply for imperialism and colonialism. Woodrow wilson gives the speech which is a electrifying jolt of idealistic energy to remind people that the war does not have to be from the old agenda. The two big things that are probably important for us but i want you to notice as i want you to notice the first point now you know why he say that but there is a second point. Freedom of speech and i want you to imagine that you are a british, british Foreign Ministry. Britain lives or dies by sea power and the capacity to impose. Blockades they want to know what exactly was the president meaning in point to. Take a look at for example, 0. 5. Adjustments from Colonial Claims with references to the wishes of a government. You can imagine that both the colonial offices of france and britain, they were staying up late at night saying what in the world is the president of the United States talking about . And then you look through a whole bunch of very interesting points and you get to 0. 14. The british in the french figured out very quickly what was going on here. The president was making his play to displace the european system of International Relations. To say to britain and france, and the old way of european imperialism including colonialism that the day has come and it is passed. A new american supporters in a world order will be profoundly different than the one that you have stood for. That is why, by the way, technically, United States world war i was never an ally power. Reverend wilson always insisted that we formally be called a so seated with powers. Because he did not want to endorse the oldfashioned war the pullman sea of the imperialist in the colonizers. Well. Okay, whats the situation . In october five, 1918. Realizing it was losing the war, imperial germany appealed to Woodrow Wilson and Woodrow Wilson only to end the war. Britain in france were thoroughly what germany said we are appealing to you president wilson because we read your speech but they had not. They thought it would end the softwood and the war but like the british in the french, we are going to tell you and on the basis of your 14 point speech. To end this war. I want you to see, by the way, the key point about this if youre thinking in world war ii terms, see this map. This is how the territorial situation looked when the war actually ended. There are no allied soldiers on german territory. Well this is not like world war ii at all. And, the germans have control of enormous swaths of the old russian empire. The germans are telling themselves, we may be losing here but we won there. When they appeal whats really interesting is everybody in the United States and then britain and france expect the president to reject their appeal. And he stunned everyone. Instead of rejecting the repeal, he asked them a question what. He asks is really important, he says i need to know if you really read the 14 points and if you understand this war were going to end it in a way that it cannot be resumed, and number three, i want to ask you a question. Who does your German Government speak for. Could this it speak for the old classes, the Imperial Party or do you speak for the people . What happened was three weeks of note exchange. If you dont know this, its all public. All of these are sent, in the radios. Papers all over the world i getting these on their front page. Its on the front page of the New York Times in the kinds of star. All of these notes are here. Then, notice, on october the 12th, the germans reply, they say we want you to know were accepting the 14 points and we want you to know that we agree that we will evacuate french and territory who might or know that our new governments we saw the driven people. At that point everybody said well were gonna call off now. And he stuns everybody by replying again. He says ok. I want you to know that will make peace only with our supremacy and by the way, you need to stop these uboat wars because there were two ships that were sunk with 800 people dead. He said if you are serious about peace are gonna knock this stuff off and he said, have you read the speech that i gave at mount vernon this year . About how this war will not end until it overturns every other great power . What germany says, a couple of days later, okay, we stop the you boats. And we want you to know we have changed our constitution. For now, the chancellor can is responsible to the parliament. Well see what the germans are doing . They are doing one of the most complicated strategies to end a war i have ever heard of. First, reach out to what you think is your opponent. Second, started democratizing revolution that you hope wont get out of control in order to win favor but could the liberal leader that softer power. Then october 23, wilson replies and he says ok. Ill talk to the allies about giving you an armistice but i want to make it really clear about a key point if we will have to be dealing with the military autocrats of germany who started and continued this war, now or in the future, we cannot discuss negotiations. I want to surrender. What in the world . All the way through this, there are two people who are volcanic in their anger at the president. They are Theodore Roosevelt, ex president who won the Nobel Peace Prize and watch senator Henry Cabot Lodge. What are they angry about . Lodge says to the senate in the opening debate about the president s notes diplomacy, if we stop the the war now, weve lost it. Large says, if we do not defeat to the german army on german soil in front of the german people, they will never admit it, and we will have to fight a war like this again in 20 years. So you roosevelt says, a premature piece before the issues are really settled means another war in 12 years. I Theodore Roosevelt also said, i dont agree with this democracy talk. I have admired german progressivism, but its time for us to say honestly, that the german people have been to botched and corrupted by imperialism. They have supported the German Government all the way through this war. Therefore, it doesnt make sense to hope that if the german people takeover germany, we are going to get a peaceful germany. I favor putting this war7÷ year and a half before, a couple months before the United States entered the war, where that kid who had gone through the defeated south was remembering something. But the only way to get to peace is to have peace with a victory. I if you victory would mean peace forced upon the loser, a victors terms imposed upon the vanquished. It would be accepted in humiliation. A few weeks later, he asked the American Congress to declare war to make the world safe for democracy, and Theodore Roosevelt says i told you. This man does not know what hes talking about. How in the world can he give a speech like that where he doesnt see any moral issue involved in trying to stop germany and its outrageous, and then a few weeks later, give a speech calling for a war for democracy all over the planet. This tells us one thing, Woodrow Wilson has a phenomenal capacity to rationalize at the level of moral principle any policy preference he wants. He is not a serious person. He is in fact a direct danger to the American Foreign policy what is wilson doing . This is a complicated topic. I think Woodrow Wilson had an idea that you cant find in his speeches. I think you can find it when you look consistently at his actions. Woodrow wilson believe that they were to germanys, one led by the kaiser, one led by the urban educated socialist leaning german people. We could live with one, we could not accept the other therefore, what he wanted to do was to defeat but not crushed germany. He wanted that educated, pro socialist. Germany eventually to rise without going full civic, because its a v. Twist to serious. He wanted to precipitate internal reform but he did not want revolution inside germany. In fact, he has a series of conversations with american senators, who say you have got to go all the way, and he looks at them and says, senator, would you rather have the kaiser of the bolsheviks . No thats a revealing comment and then i. Think that theres something going on here, he wants to make the British Empire and france dependence upon the United States. To accept americas view of what peace should be like i. Think that there is a connection between point to and point for. Woodrow wilson regularly condemned, not knowing anything so, heres what i think hes thinking. If germany is crushed. Britain in france will realize they dont need me. I therefore neat eight germany that is not crushed it still has sufficient latent and long term power that britain in france realize they must depend on the United States. Then ive got them. And i can force them into a more liberal, more progressive, more globalist version of International Relations. This guy can be subtle. Lodge frequently was not. He is a really complicated guy, but he says no, every so often, call politics comes down to simple things. We are more likely to have a real piece if we insist on a real victory. Like duffy napoleon, like defeating the confederacy, or, skip ahead, like 1945 in germany and japan. We are complete military military defeat meets complete reorientation and long term peace possible. What happens . Woodrow wilson loses the election. Woodrow wilsons party, the democrats, lose the senate and the house and therefore, will draw wilson, in 1918, in the most important election that nobody in america remembers, bitcoin the only commanderinchief in wartime to lose control of the congress. Until george bush in 2006. And a new republican majority leader, who is also going to take the chairman ship of the Senate Foreign relationships is, oh my god, there were a couple of really interesting defeats. This is senator lewis. Senator lewis is the first majority whip in the history of the u. S. Senate. He had survived september 1918 while on the Diplomatic Mission to europe the torpedoing of the ship he was on. At the beginning of the debate, he introduced a resolution calling for them to support president wilson and how he wanted to win the war and he was defeated. Heres another guy who got defeated. This ishaqishackleford from William Jewell college. [laughter] he is very important although we do not remember because he was the guy who got the bill to start federalaid for highway construction which will lead to our federal highway system. He had served in congress for nine terms. But he got buried in the election of 1918. In fact, the Democratic Party in boone county, here in the state of missouri, refused to renominated. Why was he defeated . He had a post preparedness. He said, we dont need to build an army, there is no way the germans can get across the ocean. We do not need all this stuff. He had voted for the resolution which urged americans not to get on ships that could be going into uboat torpedo zones, and he had voted against the declaration of war. And in the summer of 1918, the voters in his district in missouri had had enough and they threw him out. Why is that important. Because there is a really interesting little. Side note ive always wondered have you wondered have you heard that phrase . Fighting to make the world safe for democracy . I always wondered is that something that intellectuals talked about after president wasnt speech . Heres the best evidence. A few years ago a workman removed a brass plaque on the west phase of this Story Building of my campus and one called me and said youve gotta come see this unit gonna believe it was by the black. When i got the west black off there was this memorable thing on our jewelry all it says dedicated to the members of this class who are fighting to make the world safer democracy. Fighting to make the world safer democracy, williams will class of 1980. That is evidence the president s idea caught fire. Even in my little college, even in our little part of missouri. There were big ideas at stake. The ideas of isolationist are now in trouble. Why is this important . Because there is an argument that everything i said is wrong. Probably the most famous argument for what led to wilson being defeated in the elections in 1818 has nothing to do with war, it has to do the price of wheat. The Administration Made a gigantic mistake it controlled the price of cotton, it made sure that Cotton Growers in the south but they did not control the price of wheat. The price of wheat had gone back and forth with government, there was oversupply, it was impacts. What you got was this argument that people didnt care about the war. What they were angry about was the price of wheat. In districts that had low wheat, medium wheat, high wheat, we see more wheat thats grown in a district more likely it is that one for public. In other words this has nothing to do with the war, it has to do with the politics of economics. Im not sure thats true. Because there was Something Else going on in 1918. There was a new crew called the National Security league but did something that no one thought of before. They put out guides for how congressmans voted. What they did was they looked at eight votes, and they ranked whether or not the congressman had voted run right for the National Security league. They were completely in favor of the war and they started publishing them in newspaper after newspaper after newspaper in the white house started getting telegrams and phone calls. Oh my god were in trouble. Because it started to happen was that, once the elections came through, the hire people were on the National Security looking for wrong votes, the more likely they were to be defeated. In other words, here is pretty interesting evidence that the war mattered in addition to wheat. Okay. So they are fighting like crazy. Even before we get to the treaty. Now what happens at the treaty fight . Okay, Woodrow Wilson has three ideas to reform International Relations fundamentally. The first ideas what we call collective security. That is a special word in Political Science. What it means is a commitment by every government in the world to resist aggression even when they have no vital interest at stake. Senate manila attacks mozambique and nato declares war. The thats the idea of collective security. Its not the same thing as collective defense which is what we have a nato. Nato is all about everybody response to an attack. They do not use the word aggression. The second idea is not called Self Determination, wilson did not use that word. The bolsheviks use that word. The third idea was democracy. He started the argument that i think is empirically valid. That no two liberal democracys ever gone to war against each other. You can think of exception. If you come up with a really good exception, i will give you 400 dollars and will write the most kicking article in Political Science trying to prove the entire law of liberal democratic peace. You can get to world peace without world government, without world empire, with that second coming, if countries would become democracies. Lastly, adopt the lead. These are big ideas. The league is the heart of it. Theres lots of stuff to talk about here, but it turns out, as far as the leaks ideas the scenes at the heart of. It you need to know something. There are about 135 articles in the versailles peace treaty. The first 25 or the confidence of the league of nations. Woodrow wilson wanted the lead to end the war with germany so they could not be pulled apart. They wanted them intertwined. This is article ten, and it is saying something fundamental. Read it for me. Let me ask you a question. If ireland rose up against the British Empire and the United States signed this with the United States have any commitment . Mexternal. It would not. Okay. But, i want you to look at this. This was a extremely controversial part, still a couple different ways but the spelling up their sikh remember. This had been an area of china that germany had taken over in 1898. When china when germany took it over, if a german murderedy, only german please offering their touch him. When world war i began, japan was now part of Great Britain. So japan declared war on germany, then took over the southern peninsula and then at the peace conference Woodrow Wilson realist for a couple knee reasons he needed japan support. He said what is it going to take . They said we want one small thing. We want a racial equality clause in the riverside peace treaty. We want you to acknowledge the International Relations is no longer exclusively for white people. We want you to start saying from the beginning, by the way we would appreciate it if you would make sure that when we pass the clause if youre legislature in the california knows it. Woodrow wilson says yes we can do this. He takes the treaty back and then says mr. President , you cannot agree to the racial equality clause. Remember hes a democrat. With the heart of the democratic support in the congress . Segregation in the south. He says i am not quite sure i can do that. What else you got on your wish list . He says a we want that. Woodrow wilson hits what he is about to do. Because he is going to give an area of china inhabited by chinese to japan in order to keep japan support for the treaty. This violates the principle of Self Determination that hes been talking. About by the way any to tell you one small part of the story. When this became public, Chinese University students poured out of the universities. Something called a 1919 movement. They were profoundly angry that china was being ripped apart, after Woodrow Wilson had talked about Self Determination. Its one of the reasons that University Students in china are still under today because of that crucial moment they were the light of the constitutional. So imagine for just a moment that china goes toward to recover china. So remember china running, if china went to war to recover that territory, and the United States sign this, would we have any obligations now . The United States would be expected to go to war against china. Which has launched a justified war at liberation to recover its own territory. Opponents of the league say weve got wilson. The great more realist just discovered that in order to moral principles into the historic relations of the go to the country and they say by the way are you willing to apply for control of this region . The president my earl prestige takes a enormous hit over the controversy. He said its time to realize whats going on here. He is angry. Hes going to strongly oppose the treaty at mick speech after speech. He says they were not between makers war makers. What they are trying to do is covered up by the collective security nations, what theyre really going to do is try to set up a system if you ever challenge what they do by force in order to maintain their imperial status quo. Collective security is wrong. So Henry Cabot Lodge goes to work. He tries initially to try to get amendments for the treaty but that doesnt work because amendments have to be accepted by every other member who signed the treaty. So they start to talk about a concept called reservations and that is where you sign a treaty but make a declaration about how you would interpret parts of the treaty and notice what his first reservation. As wilson screwed up. We are not obliged anything in that mess. But lets keep going. Wilson was not clear in his treaty. I want to make it clear that the United States can withdraw from the league of nations at a moments notice. And he says by the way, the United States will have exclusive control over its territory. Then he says by the way, congress has to prove all funds, so you cant get any money for the league of nations unless we approve it. Then he says, by the way even if the league of nations starts, we reserve the right to increase our meant, and then comes the big one thats going to start the whole fight. The cities where almost all of the energy over the league of nations is going to be. What hes been going to say, the United States assumes no obligations under article ten. You can call article ten a moral guideline. You can call it a general principle. The but what you cant call it is a enforceable treaty obligation. By the way he says, this is a small constitutional issue. Only congress has the right to declare war. You cannot use a International Treaty to run around congress authority. Does the sound like the Police Action inquiry and debate a few years later . But then the vote. Lodges reservation goes. You cant get enough votes for his reservations. Whats really going on here . What weve got is not a fight between isolationist and internationalists. What we have going on here is a fight between two rival internationalists. Wilson is consistently liberal. Lodge is consistently a liberal and realist. Wilson is in favor of three great forms. Lodge says if we want peace we need barrier state and. Zoning democracy, whatever. Wilson wants collective security, lodge says no alliances are the key to peace. Not legal commitments that have nothing to do with national interests. Starting a National Organization . He says no. To lodge, stop wilson. The stakes are too serious. So they get into a fight. It is one fight after another. The whole question becomes, president wilson does not have to get the votes until he compromises with lodge. Lodge is willing to get the treaty, through but only if wilson compromises and knocks off article ten. So the question is, could you build a bridge . Between these two at least initially, you irreconcilable positions . So some people say, we could do it and declare article ten and declared a mere moral obligation. But that infuriates Woodrow Wilson. Or what you could do is say by the way, we want to acknowledge in our reservation that Congress Still has the final authority over war in peace, but wilson is concerned that that will undermine the credibility of the commitment. Or, what you could do is this, you could say the United States understands that it advises the league of nations with armed force and radical tennis should be only for each member. That is an interesting compromise and here is the real interesting point that was Woodrow Wilsons secret compromise. Woodrow wilson himself is he set out for his gigantic nationwide tour to talk to the American People into the league, realized that there may be a problem in talking to the democratic leader of the senate, he had written on his own typewriter but for reservations if you accept this if you cannot get the treaty through, i will accept this and you get the treaty through. What happened . If Woodrow Wilson himself secretly had accepted a way to build this bridge, what happened . Can Woodrow Wilson made a series of mistakes. One mistake was that when he wants to negotiate the versailles peace treaty, he took no republicans in his in his allegation. He only took one but he was an important. He took no major republican leader into his confidence apple he was trying to do. The effect was it that made it wilsons piece, wilsons treaty, not americas treaty. The second thing was that he went on this gigantic tour, wasted enormous amounts of energy, apparently changed no votes in what he really needed to be doing was sitting in washington with iron fisted negotiations with guys like lodge, trying to find a compromise. Wilson almost certainly overestimated at this moment, the power of Public Opinion to change votes in the senate. But, a lot of his most important defenders say this is the key point. Woodrow wilson, who wrote this, we still healthy. But in november, 1919, and march, 1920, wilson ordered democrats to vote no on the treaty, rather than to accept lodges reservation. Wilson aborted his own offspring. And the argument is, that hes increasing psychological rigidity is what had caused this collapse. And made it impossible for him to make the compromise. This would be the consequences of a gigantic medical crisis. And wilson refused to compromise. What therefore is the story that we are trying to see here . What we are seeing is probably, there was no way to get the versailles peace treaty through as wilson had written it. Was it possible to get any version of the versailles peace treaty through . That would be a lot looser, a lot less firm than what Woodrow Wilson . Yes, there was a way who is the person who stopped it . It was Woodrow Wilson himself. And the result was that the key piece of European Security architecture, everybody had expected was missing. And if significant forces in europe rose challenge the versailles peace treaty. The key thing that was needed for europe stabilization would be absent. And that is the story of why wilsons peace lost. Thank you. We have time for key questions so youre welcome to go down to either mike, raise your hand and dr. Armstrong will be available after the program for additional questions. What i thought i was going to escape. Thank you so much. That was very interesting and very informative. Personally, i guess i would consider myself more in the lodge view of things, in terms of a certain realism, especially with respect to certain barrier states. Would you be able to comment on obviously, drew wilsons 0. 10 and his 14 points. He was very much in favor of Self Determination in Eastern Europe. Were there any concerns about having any sort of check in the east to a defeated germany . Obviously, the soviet union at that point was in turmoil. And only Great Britain and france late to the west. But the balkans sort of became even more of a mess after the war. If youd be able to comment on that. Woodrow wilson thought that a league of nations could bring the european states in Central Europe in Eastern Europe together. And there would be a strong british, french and American Security commitment. So that if the germans or the soviets ever attempted to invade, they would have confidence that to those three great powers would be involved. And so, his idea, i think, was that there is a part of the versailles peace treaty called the French Security guarantee. And that waseoc a commitment tht wilson had made to france. If you will agree to reduce your demands about germany about this, this and this, the United States will commit. He didnt quite put it this way but the United States will commit that if germany ever comes at you again, we will be committed to your defense. And thats part of the treaty didnt survive either. Wilson was clearly thinking you, the best thing would be for germany to change in for it to see that it can adopt east with Democratic Development but if it doesnt, the league of nations will represent this commitment security. Does that help . Yes. Thank you very much for an enlightening and entertaining presentation. I was wondering, in your opinion when you look at these various points of view about victory versus defeat, complete defeat, and setting up barrier states and so on, lodge versus wilson, do you have a personal opinion as to which wouldve been the better way to go . To avoid the Second World War and such . You i personally believe collective security cannot work and i think. There are three problems with collective security. The first problem is it presumes the governments will go to war force things that are not in their vital interest. And i think they may occasionally take michelin reaction, but they wont take Major Military risk for things that are not in their best interest. Second, collective security freezes the territorial status quo all over the world. Because now people say hey, i dont have to make a compromise with you about giving you this province or splitting this because if you come over that border, that activates aggression and therefore i can expect the International Community to come in. What it does is freezes borders all around the world. Adjustments of borders are crucial ingredient overtime to maintain peace. Then the third thing, i dont believe that anybody agrees on how to define aggression. If you were to watch a brilliant International Relations major a Georgetown University i think, in 1968, he wrote to his draft board, i reject conscription in the vietnam war because while our government called that an act of aggression, by North Vietnam again south vietnam, it is actually a civil war and therefore i have no duty. That same guy the first International Relations major became president of the United States. In the 1990s. Bill clinton. He said that what was going on in bosnia constituted aggression. There were a lot of people who said that its a civil war. My sense is that there is no agreement on what aggression is and what happens is governments decide what their position is and then hire lawyers to argue that it is aggression or not aggression. So it turns out that collective hraj p uup ly controlling what wilson thought they would control. 25 years ago, there were a group of American Scholars and collective security and wanting to resuscitate it is a possibility. They gave up in the disaster of the balkan wars. Where they realized that people would not take a serious military risk to try to stop ethnic cleansing going on. Even today, there are no major scholars working on collective security as a concept. It died. Folks, we are going to conclude our program. Thank you to everyone joining us. Another thank you to dr. Armstrong. You asked your question after. Thank you. Weeknights this month, we are featuring American History tv programs as a preview of what is available every weekend on cspan three. On thursday, from American History tvs history bookshelf series, a night of authors discussing american president s starting with david and jean height learn on the rise of andrew jackson. Mid, manipulation and the making of modern politics. The book examines Andrew Jacksons 1828 election to the nations size office. Watch thursday night beginning at eight eastern, and enjoy American History tv this week and every weekend on cspan three. Every saturday at 8 pm eastern, on American History tv on cspan three, go inside a Different College classroom