The two of them had known each other for quite some time. During world war i, Franken Roosevelt was the assistant secretary of the navy under woodrow wilson. Do you want to talk about what hoover did during world war i . Sure. Herbert hoover was the head of the u. S. Food administration. It had to essentially provide food to the soldiers going to europe and hoover was able to provide the necessary food by getting americans to voluntarily reduce consumption by 15 . He did this by appealing to american housewives to sign pledge cards where they would hooverize, which meant every day of the week, you gave up a certain essential component. Meat, wheat, sugar, fat. You had meatless mondays and wheatless wednesdays. Hoover was able to use that as a stopgap for growing the food steps foodstuffs were required. Fdr was very impressed with the work hoover had done. Franklin roosevelt was trying to convince hoover to become a democrat. There was some sense of maybe we can get him as part of our party but hoover had other ideas. Can you talk about why he stayed a republican . He grew up in a Quaker Community which had supported lincoln because of their abolitionist sentiments. John brown is that it west branch. Hoover actually had registered as a republican, but because he lived abroad for most of his adult life with his mining career, people did not know his political affiliation. He had to write to roosevelt to indicate that he was, his tribe was the republican tribe, and he considered himself, theodore roosevelt, a aggressive republican. A progressive republican. Harding became president and hoover was part of the harding and coolidge administrations while fdr had polio and disappeared. He was secretary of commerce and was big on government regulation. Can you talk about his role as a commerce secretary and how it influenced him. He transformed kind of a sleepy Government Agency into a powerhouse. Standardization was one of his main achievements and where he got agencies to set industrial standards which he believed would lower the cost of goods to consumers. And many of the things we take for granted today, sized lumber, the thread count on nuts and bolts, the size brick used in construction. The size of tires. Thats right. Probably the greatest example, 42 different sized milk containers and he got it down to pint, halfgallon and gallon. Hoover was a very aggressive secretary of commerce. He took that agency and really made it one that was very meaningful to a majority of americans. 1928 is the year where roosevelts political career and hooverss political career come in parallel. In the president ial election, hoover is a candidate. Roosevelt runs for governor of new york, his return to politics after his isolation as he tried to recover from polio. We are still in the roaring 20s. The economy is great and everybody think the world is wonderful. When hoover becomes president , he has an agenda that doesnt last very long. What was it like in the hoover administration, in 1929 when the stock market collapsed . Hoover was aware there were systemic problems with the economy even before the market crashed. Agriculture produced too much, which depressed prices. There was its own depression during the 1920s. 25 of the banks failed before the crash. It was a condition of too many banks with too few capital assets. When the market crashed, people need to realize, only 10 of americans owned stock. However, banks were heavily invested in the market, over 90 of the banks had stock. So the crash really impacted already one of the main institutions for liquidity that made loans that kept the economy alive. And so hoover immediately calls industrial heads and leaders together november 19 and gets them to agree to voluntarily to continue to maintain full staff levels, to keep pay at the same level, in order to keep liquidity, and the Federal Reserve helps out a little bit. It reduces the prime rate half a point. But it is still incredibly high for the needs. Most economists claim that what took what shouldve been a normal downturn in the economy, a depression, into the great depression, was again, the fed did not early enough and at the level required infuse the economy with enough liquidity and capital. However, by 1930, Economic Indicators darted to point up started to point up, and then of course there were other things that happened abroad that takes the depression into the great depression. The irony is typically when we review economic downturns, they are referred to as panic and hoover wanted to avoid that language. He is the one who put in place the term depression. Some of the things he did exacerbated it, the implementations of tariffs created chaos and made the situation much worse. The division between the weight the way roosevelt spotted, he thought the state should be involved in helping Unemployed People and hoover was adamantly opposed to that. Roosevelt strongly believed you had to have a massive Government Investment in creating jobs and opportunities and hoover was insistent the federal government not go down that path. The divergence that happened later on becomes evident fairly quickly, certainly by 1931 it is obvious they have radically different ideas about how to approach an economic crisis. At that point, they did not realize this would go on for a decade. When they started the campaign, hoover and his advisers hoped roosevelt would be the candidate they would run against because they thought he was a weak candidate. Hoover was not interested in campaigning. It was only when he saw that there was not this groundswell of support for him that he reluctantly got on the campaign trail. By the end, it almost did him in. The demands of the crises every day wore him physically, mentally. He did give an important speech in Madison Square garden in late october, right before voting. This i think is what is significant he indicated that the 1932 contest was not really about personalities, different philosophies of government. Hoover had always maintained that he was a supporter of small government, even though what we have been talking about, he was not afraid his government to advance what he thought was important programs to protect public interest. I think what hoover objected to was he was a 19thcentury liberal in that he believed that protection of individual freedom and liberty was the main function of government, and as he liked to quote, the purpose of government is to remove obstacles from the individual to provide a fair chance to everybody to be able to achieve whatever their talents and ambitions take them. This idea of the right to rise. Hoover wanted to use the power of government to help business, but not the american people. I think that was the difference. When roosevelt came out in the Democratic Convention in 1932 with the concept of a new deal for the american people, what he was saying is he wanted to shift that role of the federal government, that it should have a role in helping the american people. Toward the end of the campaign, he had eight speeches laying out specific policies for Bank Regulation and other ideas, and the new deal was more of a framework. How do you approach solving these problems . Thats the government can help in the balance between big is this in labor, or should the government stay out of the way . Hoover got very hostile and nasty. He called fdr a fascist and socialist and claimed it was the end of america as we know it if roosevelt was elected. It became a very personal and nasty campaign. It did. I think it is a mischaracterization to say that hoover was only a friend of big business. In the 1920s, the business labor government worked to create voluntary codes. Hoover wanted things to be done in a voluntary and cooperative way rather than by government fiat. It is not so much that he wasnt interested in labor. That he wasnt interested in the common man. He was. I think clearly his humanitarian efforts are evidence of that. Hoover had to deal with kind of the logical extension of some of the ideas he began with progressivism. So he begins developing this conservative philosophy which is constantly warning against the dangers of big government. The election itself was pretty onesided. Roosevelt won with a large majority. Roosevelts first term starts march 4. He was the last president inaugurated on march 4 even though he was elected in november. He had this period where he is trying to convince roosevelt to give up on the new deal and stick with hoovers plan. A number of Bank Closures continue to increase in the crisis gets worse and worse. Congress is sort of paralyzed. Hoover has absolutely no respect for roosevelt during this period, and in their meetings, hoover treats him like an idiot. There was a lot of antipathy between the two of them. You may have a different take, but it was one of the most contentious transitions in American History. I think hoover had aspirations of it being a cooperative and joint position on dealing with the crisis. And, you know, in the new yorker that sums it up perfectly. Hoover has this scowl and roosevelt has his usual smile. Roosevelt, when he becomes president , its an incredible period of legislative accomplishment, the first 100 days. It was a unique time. He had this overwhelming majority in congress. He could get that legislation done. Samever was given that ability than any of his reelections. Is a veryys really unique historic moment. I dont think that you will see any president soon to be able to match it. I dont think you will ever see it again. Prepare four months to for the first 100 days. He had huge majorities in both houses of congress. The American Public was demanding action now. Theres a photograph of roosevelt and hoover in the back of the car on the way to the inauguration. It sums up everything that can be said about their relationship. It may be an apocryphal story. They get in the car. Roosevelt is trying to have small talk with hoover. Roosevelt was famous for his charming personality and ability to engage with people. Hoover is equally famous for his pessimistic nature. Roosevelt turns his attention to the crowd and waves to the cheering crowd. Hoover sits there with a mug on his face. Its the last time they ever see each other. Its a great cover that was never ran by peter arno. It sums it up perfectly. Hoover has this scowl and roosevelt has his usual smile. Their personalities really were night and day. Hoover felt he did not need to communicate what he was doing to the American Public that the results of what he was doing would speak volumes. He would either be successful or he would not be. Whereas roosevelt really understood youve got to communicate. He was a wonderful communicator, the fireside chats. He also had some great speechwriters, prizewinning playwright robert shoulderwood and others. He had a natural ability. Roosevelt understood the needs of the voting public but hoover had always been outside of politics. When he became president , it was the first time he had held elected office. He spent the rest of his life trying to convince people he was right and roosevelt was wrong. Hoover wrote a book called the challenge to liberty, a screed against the new deal. Up until 1940 he thought he would get the nomination to run again and it never happened. He wrote a major attack on fdrs Foreign Policy that was never published until maybe about five years ago, it was called freedom betrayed. [laughter] you can see there is a theme here about freedom and liberty. It is not that hoover hasnt made arguments that other historians have in criticizing roosevelts Foreign Policy, it is that no one can gainsay roosevelts leadership during the second world war. I think the war, more than necessarily the new deal, which was kind of rocky and never really got america out of the depression, shows his leadership at its finest. At saving democracy not only in america but in europe. Thats one of the things i find most confusing about hoover, when you read about him. His life is very much based on a set of principles, both in terms of his extraordinary intellect, a successful businessman, and the bedrock conservative principles he had throughout his life, and yet even though he saw the terrible suffering the germans imposed on the belgians during world war i, in the mid1930s he supports hitler. He starts supporting the nazi regime and one of his criticisms was that roosevelt had antipathy toward them. Ive never been able to understand why hoover took that point of view, particularly if he is proposing that freedom is the most important thing, this was the most Oppressive Society in the world. So hoover had been over in europe to visit poland. He was very important in feeding the poles after world war i, and he was actually asked by the American Ambassador if he would come to germany to have an audience with hitler. Hoover did not seek it. In notes he made in memorandum afterwards, he indicated that american media, which made hitler out to be a clown, could not be more wrong. That hitler meant what he said, and what he said was sheer evil. He thought the germans and russians would be involved in this very prolonged bloodletting that would protect western interests, similar to what happened in iraq and iran. It is a rather cynical view, but hoover thought that america should become fortress america and you know, let the nazis and the soviets fight it out. It isnt until pearl harbor that hoover comes on board supporting the American Military being involved. He is supportive of roosevelt during the war but at that point , he did not have much option. I think it is interesting that that America First group with lindbergh and taft and other people who had the idea William Randolph hearst who had the idea of stay out of the war and let them fight it out over there, hoover was very much in that camp, whereas roosevelt was more about being partners. Roosevelt would have gone much further if he could have. He did not break the law, he came as close as you can. [inaudible] most of which hoover opposed. There is an interesting postscript to the war. Of course, roosevelt died and hoover had not visited the white house for 12 years at that point. He had a different relationship with fdrs successor. Do you want to talk about that a little bit . Throughout roosevelts administration, a number of his advisors, specifically some of the conservative democrats kept pushing roosevelt to bring hoover in on certain policy issues and roosevelt exploded and said i am not jesus christ, i will not raise hoover from the dead. When he dies, harry truman reaches out to him and asks him for a meeting. A 71yearold man on a global factfinding mission, postwar food and humanitarian aid. It is used by George Marshall in formulating the marshall plan. And so hoover, under truman, i think gets rehabilitated. [laughter] he is brought back into service. And in fairness, the only person who had really dealt with feeding millions of people and dealing with that kind of relief effort was hoover. Plus, he also still had a Network Within the leadership of europe that remembered him from world war i and especially in germany, really the only american they trusted after world war ii was hoover. Because at a time when the allies did not want food to go into post world war i germany, hoover fought to get it in. I see it as one of roosevelts great failings that he did not brief hoover on anything, not on the bomb, strategies, so truman had to take over with very little understanding. So hoover was the only surviving expresident and the only person who understood what the job was. I will let you wrap this up because i think it is one of hoovers great quotes, he lived until the mid1960s and saw a lot of his philosophy essentially lay the groundwork for the conservative republicans that went for decades. Near the time of his death, he was asked about his critics. Do you want to talk about that . I think you are referring to his quote that he outlived the bastards, which allowed him the last word. There are two kind of quotes that sum up hoovers understanding of what happened. The first, where he said foolish individuals only hurt themselves, whereas a foolish government hurts both the wise and the foolish. And the other is blessed are the children, for they shall inherit presents biographies of every president , inspired by conversations with noted historians about the leadership skills that make for successful presidency. Electionresidential year as americans decide who should lead our country. Intooffers perspectives each president s leadership style. Visit cspan. Org the president. Available wherever books are sold. Youre watching American History tv, covering history cspan time that the span style with andival films, lectures College Classrooms and visits to museums and historic places. All weekend, every weekend on cspan3. American history tv is on social media. Follow us at cspan history. Professor martha jones talks about the midmarket teen century the mid19th Century Court case of celia, a female slave who killed her master after repeated sexual assaults. The class discusses what options she may have had, and the involvement of her fellow slaves and her masters white neighbors in her court case. American history tv recorded this class in 2014 at the university of michigan. Professor jones now teaches at Johns Hopkins university. Prof. Jones today we will continue to discussion that we began a couple of weeks ago, talking ou