Transcripts For CSPAN3 Oral Histories Eugene DiSabatino 20240712

Cspan radio up. 75 years ago, in the summer of 1945 the United States dropped two atomic bombs on japan, one on here shimon august six and the other are nagasaki on august 9th. And this oral history recorded in 2012, by the national will work to museum, army veteran, eugene disabatino, talks about his assignments to the manhattan project, which included being stationed at loss alamos and working while the bomb dropped over nagasaki. The National World War Ii Museum provided the video. I was born in wilmington, delaware. And basically, i grew up in wilmington, delaware. My family had a Construction Business there, which was quite old, it is still in business. And i went to school in delaware, i went to the university of delaware, my history basically was in delaware before i went into the service. I tried to enlist in the service the minute we were attacked by japan, but i was color blind and i couldnt get in. But they had what they called the enlisted reserve corps, which they let College Students go into with the idea that you would serve a basic training and then you would go back to school and their thinking was that maybe this war wasnt going to go too far. You go back to school and you start again, wherever you left off. So i want to try to enlist, i was color blind, has to go back. Finally, i got in the army but i was restricted and what i could do. I want to texas for basic training. I spent 16 weeks in texas. They sent me from texas to the university of connecticut, to continue my education. Unfortunately, when i got to the university of connecticut, i found out i had had everything that they were teaching, i had already been through. So i reported to them that i was wasting my time and they suggested that they would send me up to mit. And that is what happened, they sent me to mit, i did my time at mit from mit i was sent to and why you. And from nyu i went to los alamos. Tell me the process first of all, what were you studying at mit end and what you . I was basically an engineering the whole time. Because that is what i had done in college. I was a Civil Engineer, i graduated before i went to mit and nyu. Once you finished it and why you, how did you end up at los alamos . I was just selected one day, the officers came to requests. I guess it was in at nyu, and they interviewed us and one of them said well, you are going to go on an assignment someplace else. So we will just give you your orders in a few days and you are going to be out of here. That is when they picked me to go to oak ridge, tennessee, which is where i went to and from there i started out and then went to los alamos. But i went by train, no air conditioning, we ended up in les me, new mexico, which is about 16 or 20 miles from lasagna almost. They picked us up an army trucks and delivered us to lasalle almost. And thats how i got there and the first guy we met was a major who was in charge of security. Major to silva, of course he told us we were going to be restricted to that base for a total period that we were in loss los alamos, and we wouldnt be let out of there and if we violated security in any way, we would probably end up over an africa someplace in the weeds. That is how we started off and then they change their mind, because they found that a lot of us that any of us had experience at all in the service. We do know what a salute was. They just know we were in the service. When you were first sent to oak ridge, did you know what was going on in oak ridge . No. I didnt have any idea, i was put into barracks and just said, stay there, and a couple days, they came and got us and said come on, were leaving. That was that. I had no idea what was going on or no courage, none. At the point that you had major to silva, did you have any idea then . No. It was typical of service in that particular situation, you wouldnt believe it would happen and you would be standing in the middle of it in that you would know what was happening there was a lot happening that you to know about it was happening and you didnt know. I didnt know what they were doing at oak ridge, i didnt know what they were doing a loss alamo, so i had no idea about anything. All i know is what i was doing. What happened to you next within a couple days after we arrived. They were called to a big assembly room, and the physicists who were listed that were lost almost, los alamos in those days, they began an interview. These physicists had a list of people in their hands and they would call the name and whoever this person was would go out and they would have an interview, and they would decide where this guy or girl was going to be assigned. In my case, they got all the way down that i was the last one in the room. When Norman Ramsey walked in the room and said, you are a Civil Engineer, i dont know what were going to do with you. And that was my introduction as i said, i didnt get myself out there. So we worked from there. By that night, i knew what we were doing, he told me what we were doing. And of all the people i knew and that site, at that time, nobody knew what we were doing except me. None of the gis new, they knew they were working in the Technical Area or they knew they were working here or there, they didnt really know what they were doing. They knew this was of a job they were doing, but they had no idea why they were doing that job. How does he explain to you what it was that you are doing . He had to tell me ultimately. After he found out that i was a Civil Engineer and i was there, and he was going to have to use me, he said, come on to my office with me. He took me to his office and he said heres what were going through, were going to build a big bomb and were going to drop it. And he said, ramsey is in charge of the Delivery Group to get this bomb over japan. And he said, you are going to be on my team. He said there are only five of us on the team. Our first job, believe it or not, was to develop ballistic tables to use to drop this bomb. And we did that. We had a pilot and a bomb bird year from akron, ohio yuck. My recollection was that the pilots name was shields, and the bombard ear was named simple. We went over with the plane and drop some dummy bombs and these were bombs that look like pumpkins basically. They would drop them and we would photograph them and then we would work backwards to find out how you had to set the bomb site, to make those bombs go where you wanted to go. We had to develop the bond tables before we could start to drop the bombs. We did that for sometime. And i worked on that with two gis. 3g eyes. One from chicago and two were not engineers at all, one was a young boy from chicago. There were five of us working on that. Tell me about how you ended up that wind over. I ended up in wind over just because they were going to open up a test site. They brought this five bombardment group, theyve been in europe flying be 17. They came to the United States, picked up a bunch of b 17s and they were sent to wind over. They had to have somebody to run wind over. And i had no idea, i happened to be standing in the right place at the right time, for me. They just said one day, you are going to leave loss alamos, los alamos tomorrow and you are going to end up supposedly in wind over. I took a devious routes to do that. I had to go to kirkland in albuquerque, i had to change from gi close to civilian clothes. I went out and got on a c 47, i didnt know who was on the c 47. And then we leave and we follow a flight plan for Salt Lake City, or for las vegas. And before we get there, the pilot changes the flight plan and we turn off and we go to wind over. Los alamos thinks we are going to las vegas and they dont know we have gone to wind over. And that was part of the security. And then, of course, from wind over we flew over california and ultimately, the c was developed so that they could take off at window over, when be 29s, flying over the San Francisco down the west coast and then fly in over the salt sea and make the bomb drop on the target was floating in the sea. The idea, trying to replicate a long flight with that bomb on in the bomb bay. Meantime, they are making all the measurements up in the plane to make sure that the bomb is riding the way it should, and we are on the ground with cameras, waiting for them to drop that bomb so we can take a picture to see where it lands and how accurate they are. Checking the readings that we have been giving them to use on the bomb site. Occasionally, we would not only drop the bomb but we would go back, if it missed the target by sizeable amount, we would go back in the desert and to get up, dig down 25 or 30 feet and bring it back up and see if we could figure out if the tail bent or Something Like that. That was all part of it. Meantime, i lived in the officers quarters there. Wearing civilian clothes. These young guys used to shove cue sticks in my face, bang my newspaper or magazine because they thought i was a draft dodger. But they didnt know, so did matter. You couldnt even let them know that you were in the u. S. Army. No, nobody down their new. No. They couldnt. Because then id go from there back to salt sea. Once a month, i would go back to los alamos because i had to go back to get paid. Since i was a gi, i would go back, i would get my sergeants pay and the next day, a whack would drive me back down to kirkland field again, captain winds low would come get my clothes off of me, put civilian clothes on me, and i would take off for window for again. That went on once a month. Until almost the end. How long were you at los alamos before they sent you to wind over . I probably worked at los alamos for six months or so, working on you. We had machines that they used in hollywood to splice film. In the movie industry. That is what we used to read, the transmissions from the. Airplanes that was dropping these bombs that way we can work backwards c where the bomb left flame and were hit the ground. Figures that way. So i probably spent six months or so. Did you say were already married at that point . No i got married at the end of the war when i got back. Thats how i got back. A top channel flower into letting me come back to get married. And berkeley california. Tell me a little bit more what was it like it loss elements. Nobody can talk about what theyre doing . Last animals basically it sat up on top of a mountain. It was a boy school at one time a very exclusive boys school. To get there, you had to drive up a road up the side of the mountain. If you went off the side of the road, you had a nice roll. And when you got to the a gate at the top, they stopped you got your red identity and so forth. From there, you go on in first thing you came into was the Technical Area, the beginning of the Technical Area. It was up on a level part and it was a drugstore there, and a Grocery Store and so forth. Thats also where the original boy school was. It came to that first. And when it came to that hill and down to the bottom thats where all the military personnel was. The engineers, the military, i mean the what do you call them . The the army police the mps. The mps had their barracks. He went all through that, went to the bottom. Then when you got to the bottom of the hill, you began to get into the various areas where everything was restricted. You couldnt go there unless you work there. There were many sites back in the cells where only the people who worked on that particular compound could go to work. I couldnt go wandering around somebody else is site. I was restricted to my site where i worked. So the play spread out quite a long way. Ive been back since and of course its much larger now. That were you met your wife . Tell me a little bit about that and about her. As i said, she work for the university of california for an aviation lab at berkeley. She was a single girl. My recollection is when i met her that she might have been working at a bookstore, im not sure. She had gotten her degree from university, and she was working for the university and she also had a side job working at a bookstore in berkeley. I met are there. The university of california asked her to go to los alamos. She was saying, well i have nothing else to do important to do, so what do you want me to do when i get there . Well, youre going to be a secretary to admiral parsons and ramsey, you work in that office. , now one thing she did have the talent, she could do anything in the secretarial field. She also had a college degree, so she was the lead person in the office. There was another girl by the name of hazel green bakr who was also a secretary but she was not college material. Thats how marie claire got started. I matter just walking back and forth in the halls and as i pointed out, i stopped and gawked at her and she wanted to know what the heck i was looking at. I told her the best looking legs in los alamos and that did. I asked her for a day, and she wouldnt go. And she called me at attendees later and said i have a free night. That was all i needed. Something i wanted needed to tell me about, tell me about hash worth, you mention it a little bit earlier. Tom about working with him, what he was like . When i met ash worth, he was a commander so he was no stinky little guy like i was. He showed up in the office it and introduce himself. He had a great big english bulldog that he had with him. Whenever he was in the Technical Area you had the dog with them. He was a weapons officer and he told me he was going to start running this particular part of the show and i was going to be working with them. That was fine with me, because he was one of the finest guys ever met in my life. So i began work with him and i particularly remember that it out that english bulldog with them, and the dogs tongue would fall out, and ash were would pick the tongue and put it back in the dogs mouth. When we started out assault in sea and when dover, hash worth primarily and loss alamos although he did direct what was going on at sultan c and. Him went over he was doing it through me. He was telling me what to do. But he was a great guy. I will read the story what were youth. Time i was a surgeon. Tell me about the meeting you had with ramsey nash worth and you want to get your civilian clothes in delaware about your father all that stuff. Well, i told you that they decided i should be traveling in civilian clothes. They didnt want me traveling in uniform. Now one thing we had, there were a lot of people in wind over i mean sultan sea and loss alamos who worked around the country in various capacities who traveled for instance in uniform. An ordinary civilian would go for instance a bomb released mechanism was designed and built by the Dupont Company in wilmington delaware. The engineer in charge of that project would put on an Army Officers uniform, generally maybe as high as a major and he would go to wellman wilmington, delaware and inspect the work that was going on. He would identify him self as major soandso and thats the way it was against excepted. In my case, we did at the other way around. I was the only one i know in los alamos that went around in civilian clothes and did what i did. To the best of my knowledge, nobody else went from uniformed to cities except me. Now when these guys went where they went, fell i was telling about went to delaware, i came from delaware. I knew the dew pop company, i knew exactly where he was going so when he when he was telling families in a duo is describing where he was gonna be. He just worked on the development. Tell me the he go home and get your close italian dad whats going on, talk about your father. Well, i pulled in, when im when they sent me home i got on a c 47 to my recollection, now im having trouble. I might have gone back to delaware on a train but when i got to delaware i showed up my fathers house, knocked in the door, he opened the door and almost drop dead. He wanted to know what was i do, and why was i there and i said i have to get some civilian close. Then immediately he starts, i dont understand, youre in the army why do you need civilian clothes. Well i said im not supposed to tell you about that. We had a good day, and i told him i had to go to philly the next day, because i couldnt get close in wellington wilmington and he bud me the whole time. Why are you doing, this area sure you didnt do something wrong. I dont think this has to be part of the story but but while were doing this hes got his wallet pulled out, pulling a 20 dollar bills. I feel like ive dieting gone to heaven. So the next day we got in the car and went to philadelphia. My recollection is that it was a place called bond. I had been there before, we went in bout these clothes. Then i had some trouble with a policeman which ended up being a non event but it shook my father up. He really got to the point where he was suspicious. He thought something wrong was happening. We talked about it we talked about it off camera tell me what happened with the Police Officer. The Police Officer was right. I had gone through red a red light. Who was one of those things where youre going a little too fast and a light changes and you cant stop. He immediately he immediately jumped on the had. Me he pulled me over. First he looked in the car and he said how come you are not in the army . I said im just not in the army. I dont understand, a guy raging out in the army . I said nominate not in the arm. He said you just ran a light back there. I said okay if i did i did im sorry. I knew i had slipped through it. I didnt mean to. He said well i dont understand this. Everybody is in uniform and youre sitting there at your age with no uniform. So i was told before i left loss alamos. I was given that car and they said were gets to the if it gets to the point if it gets a little sticky and hard. The card said this person is representing the United States research and development blah blah blah. It had a name on it, please do not delay him. Whatever he is doing is legitimate. He read that and he looked at me for a bit and then he almost threw the car that me and he said i dont know what youre doing but go ahead. Of course my father wanted to know what the card said because i hadnt shown it to him. I wouldnt show it to. When you do these kinds of things, some of the rules you have to kind of make them up yourself. I knew that i wasnt supposed to hand in that card my father that is. Of course, he was absolutely adamant that he had to see that card. After going to buy any civilian clothes, he was suspicious anyway wondering what was happening. Thats the way it worked. Tell me about a little bit more about when over what that was like. You are talking a little bit early about wearing civilian clothes and getting their overseeing this project with a bunch of military guys. Tell me a little bit more with than what you were doing there. Well, as i told you i had to go to los animals to get paid. Then i had to go back to when dover so i would do that by going down a devious root of going down a current feeling, changing my calls and the captain winds law would come meet me. He would take my gi clothes, give me civilian clothes, put me on a c 47 and supposedly send me to los vegas. That was the beginning of it. I would do that once a month. I would always end up in window. Verb when i got to wind over, i just go to the Officers Club and they had a bed for me. They didnt ask questions. I didnt have to answer anything. Sometimes i go to the Little Casino at the top of the hill and play the roulette wheel four quarters. There was nothing else there. It was a small casino and it was right on the utah line. So i would get in there, go to bed. Next morning i will go in the desert to our trucks or whatever we were doing and start doing that. Now naturally, those people that saw me come in there and civilian clothes would then wonder about may two. Im working with them but theyre saying the same sort of things. How come is wearing civilian clothes were all in the army . It worked. I got to know them all and they believed that i was in the army. I gave them no reason to believe it. Yet, we travel together a lot. I knew them all, but they thought i was a civilian and they were satisfied by that. Tell me a little too about what were talking a minute ago about some of the some of the officers. You mention everybody but carol divots tip it. I knew tip it from bumping into a meeting with them and chatting in that sense. Tip it was not easy to know for me. Tip it used to come to los alamos i would periodically see him there. There he would have to deal with the girl who became my wife. She got to know him better than i did and got along with them. Tip it was the commanding officer, thats all. He wasnt really interested and some young civilian working on a project. He took me like all the rest of those civilians working on the project. He was the big gun and that was all right with me. I stayed out of his hair. But the rest of them, fair b, sample the whole gang, iran around with them. We go to Salt Lake City and we all pile into one room. Im in my civilian clothes and theyre in their army clothes they never asked a question. Never. One night i was, we went into a im not sure if a hotel. It was a sailors hat on awash stand and somebody gotten sick in the sailors hat. Well that was a lot of fun. We just ran around together. They got to know me. They knew i was working and they had no reason to figure, because there were a lot of civilians connected with loss alam oils. Well i just said this is one of those egg heads working for loss alamos. Did you say one of them was dutch fan kirk . Sure. I knew van kirk, selby, chuck sweeney. They i knew sweeney, he was a great guy, a nice guy. And that fairer be was quite a guy. They were all good guys and they were satisfied. I was a civilian, thats all. How long were you what went over before he went to solvency . Back and forth. Once i started at wend over, then it would be a situation where i will go to wind over maybe id stay a couple of days and do some work or lay out some stuff that had to be done. Maybe i wouldnt, maybe i guess maybe i go straight down assault and see. Solvency was built to fill in the picture the film. Thats why sultan see was there. It was a navy base for a movie it had been put their. We lived in those barracks, and we did our testing as i explained by putting running up big loop up to send francisco which approximated the distances we were gonna have to fly at the time. I have to spend all this time worked on this project, tell me about us worth telling you that you were going to go overseas with the bomb. And how you were gonna be directly commission is an officer. The, said i work for us worth. I didnt ask him any questions. He was gonna be the head of my unit. I was working for him. The best of my knowledge, i was his only employee working right with him. No question, he was gonna handle a phase of that project. He just said, look, i want to to get down assault and see, all keep in touch with you and you keep in touch with me and we get a run this thing in a certain way. Thats what we did. He ran it. It was understood that when that bomb was gonna go overseas, asked worth was gonna go with it. I might be there, but he was gonna be the big well. That was perfectly all right. I had no problem with that. He was a great guy and he let me do what i wanted. I remember one time we were on a trip and we ended up in san diego and we were at the hotel right on the wall water. He being a naval officer force had a beautiful room. I went to my room there were six people there i was sleeping with six people in the room that i never met before. You try to get them to commit you as a navy officer . They told me they were gonna give me a direct commission. Ive been talking with us with. Do you think theres any chance that maybe i can get the navy instead of the army . He said i dont know well see what we can do. Something like that. I dont think he really intended. Face it, i tried. Id rather be in the navy. Thats why youre here youre gonna be in the arm enough to navy. I wouldve liked a navy, but it didnt matter. Four bliss and second lieutenant. Because they discharged me one night and then they realistic me the other night. So i was discharged as a technical sergeant, the next day i was enlisted as a second lieutenant. Thats what all those discharge papers are about. The final discharge paper as when i got discharged and for dickson, new jersey when it was all over. They had to say what i was in this in that. I had high hopes. I really wanted to be in the navy, i dont know why would you made any difference. Tell me about going overseas. I was sent to hamilton feel to go overseas. I had orders to go to hamilton field. Such and such a date i was going to get on a c 54 and go overseas. I got to hamilton field. Naturally you go there they want to see your papers and so forth. They say you have to have shots. I said well how long do i have to get these shots . Oh well you have to have them in three days. What am i going to do in the meantime . Well, go do whatever you want. Go wonder around. I didnt have a real tight schedule. I had to wait for a c 54 that was going to take off and a certain day and go into the pacific. While i was doing that, i walked around San Francisco and at that time i now had my Second Lieutenants uniform on and i was a big shot. The trolleys would stop and offer me a ride come on lieutenant get on get on. I had two or three nice days. Now i felt guilty but i couldnt go anywhere but i didnt have an air any airplane. I was naive to this point. When i finally got i was told to report to the 23rd or air force the general there. I go to general mays office. I go up there and theres a big sergeant sitting in a duskys is what do you want . Im up here to see general in a. Hourly. So mayor orders. So i shown my orders and my orders say reports to the commanding general 20th air force. He says will what do you think this means . I said it means i have to see general im a. Everyone over here comes over here with orders that says report. This is just get the heck out here go to the airport and get a ride. Im not gonna talk. Thats how i got to tinian. The plane didnt even have a door on it. But the guy gave me right now is okay. Tell me about the tinian and where when that was and what happened. When i got to tinian then we were really in the business of getting our loading pits ready and getting ready to load the airplane. We were proceeding towards the point where we knew when that plane had to go. The time had been set. Now you saw the pictures of those bombs. The way they had to be loaded was they were dropped into a pit into the ground and the plane was pulled over them. Either backwards or forwards. Then the bomb was pulled up into the bomb bay. We did that from a pit in the ground which was adjacent to a Metal Building. We kept the bombs in a Metal Building and at night we were ready to fly with them, wig we take him out put him in a pit run the plane over them, lower him up, and then pull the plane out. Those pictures show had tinian of the pits. That was on a remote part of the island all the way at the end of the island. All the other people on the island had no idea what we were doing there. Thats how we loaded them. To the best of my knowledge, i was, excuse me i was the last person who had his hands on the bond that blew up nagasaki. We were all signing the bomb and i am the last, well i signed it. The last one drop dead chaps and hes got. Next day early, the plane takes off. They had to pick a target at the last minute. Its interesting. We blew nagasaki to smithereens. Nagasaki is built back completely by the japanese. Its a beautiful city. Detroit got ruined a little later than that and its still ruined. laughs its something. When the japanese knew what happened to them, all they wanted to do was put things back together. That surrender was by the emperor it wasnt by anybody else. He just made up his mind when he saw what those two bombs did. Of course they thought we had more, we didnt have anymore we had one more. He wasnt going to see another bomb land on his country. Thats when he quit. Theres something you mentioned to. He mentioned something and you read up about a ceremony about big wheels and inaudible one guy from the New York Times. Yeah. He was the embedded reporter. We were in the ten building adjacent to the pit where the bomb had been loaded. All the main characters were in their writing a note on the bomb before it was dropped into the pit. Lawrence was with the New York Times i believe and he sat there and he made notes and everybody autograph the bomb and had something cute to say. Thats what that was all about. See theres anything elsewhere that i want to ask you. I like what you say here. We can talk a little bit more about this. The security behind all of this. You smack in the middle of the top security operation. How many phony tails were told around the world. Thats right. As i told, you i didnt know some of the stuff that was happening around me and i was running. It the security was absolutely tremendous. It was lowkey so that you didnt see strange people standing around making suspicious things just flowed. One thing you did know, you knew well you better not open your mouth or say anything you should should not say. He better do what everybody else was doing. That was it. Let me ask about this. The planes on its way to nagasaki. What is your next after the bombs loaded, the plane take off . I stayed i stay back. I had no reason to go. Once i finished my job, it was over. They didnt need me anymore. The guys who were gonna take that bomb up there, they knew what they were gonna do, they knew how to get it out and put the fuses in and do all that business. I serve no purpose. I was going to go, that was going to be a treat for me in a sense. But then in my own mind, i really wasnt too anxious to get involved in a lot. As far as i was concerned, when that bomb left it was over. Japan had been bombed and japan wasnt in a come back from that one. The japanese knew it and we knew it. It really didnt matter what i did after we finished running wend over, salt and see. How did you find out about the outcome of the bomb . We were sitting intense. As i said, our area was removed from everyone in tinian. So we were around and are tense with radios. All the officers were there i was there. All of a sudden, somehow somebody said something. It went off. They blew up nagasaki. And that was the. We know. And of course next morning, uva he began here that they were ready to quit, they had enough. Talk about two what is the rest of tinian think about the night flight . How one thing i told you part of our strategy we were taking dummy bombs and flying them over some of those islands that surrounded tinian and we drop one. Now they had dynamite in them, thats all. So they would hit in there be a tremendous boom. The people on the island, normally mostly japanese soldiers got used to seeing these big bombs coming down and they knew all they were gonna get was a big blast now was it. So we were doing that regularly and thats how it got to be routine with us. They would just go and come back. Didnt work . Yeah i worked, fine. They never got to see the people. Nagasaki those people never saw what it. I never went on any other mission with those dummy bombs or anything. I would participate and loading and getting them out of there. That was part of our procedure, thats all. How long did you stay at tinian after the bomb . I didnt stay too long because i told you wanted to get back and get mary. General fowler was nice enough to let me do it. I only stayed about two or three weeks Something Like that. Then i went back. How soon after that could you talk about your involvement . As soon as i get back. For instance, the minute i got back to los alamos, there were already committees of scientists who were beginning to say we cant ever do this again. Weve got to get rid of these bombs. Never again and atomic bomb. There was a whole group of them out there that made up their minds they wanted to get rid of atomic power completely. Then there was a group of guys like me, not that i was that important, but a group of civilian guys who said thats crazy. Were going to figure out how to control this thing and were going to have it because its going to be a deterrent for years to come. But a lot of the big scientists were very much for dumping nuclear power, get rid of it. So when we got back to los alamos, we heard a lot of that, that was going around. I never got too much into those discussions because i did my thing and i didnt figure as i said, i was in the Delivery Group. Once it got delivered, i was done with it. 50 years ago like remember the first name last name everything else. Works or doesnt here right. Tell me just as im curious, how long was it before i got talk to your parents like you dad know what was all about . Well i got back to San Francisco maybe three or four weeks and i told him i wanted to get married out there. He immediately suggested that he in my uncle were going to grab an airplane come out to the wedding. I immediately suggested in that wasnt going to happen. We were going to get married at the university of california and there wasnt to be Anyone Around but us. So he accepted that after a while. Did you tell him on the phone while you were wearing civilian clothes and all about the car in the Police Office . As soon as the bomb went, he got that idea pretty quick. He called me some point and he said, maybe i was durant street in california. He put a colin out there. I told him well now you know what i was doing. What did you right after the war . You got married with what happened next . Well i came back and as i said, we had a Construction Company. Still have it. Our companies 104 years old. We got back and i got started with the Construction Company and i got very much involved with that. Our Construction Company started with our grandfather coming from italy in bringing two sons within. They just walked around and somebody building a house. And they go up to say we give you a price on doing the brick work . He couldnt speak english. Thats how they did it. When i got into the company, i was really the first one who had been to school, who had an engineering degree and so forth. I began to run the company and thats what i did until i quit and came here. Looking back in the war, how do you feel about your involvement with this project what you did during a service time . I have a strange history. Lost alamos and all that part. That impresses me. I like that too. But then from there, i went into the Construction Business. I began to ran my company. I started on another line of trying to work down with the unions in washington d. C. I got myself into some, see that book right there . I got myself into some weird situations. laughs i hear i hear you paint houses. That means you knock people off. Well i got mixed up with those unions trying to do some good. The first thing in you know theyre gonna try to knock me off. So i got a story to tell their. I gotta put that together one day. So i guess even jimmy often didnt get along . Often had been in jail. He was back out and he wanted to take the union back. Meantime, the mafia had gotten together and taken over the union. They just told jimmy to go packing. He said, no im taking this union back. If you remember fits simmons was gonna take the union. Jimmy was the most powerful man in the world with that teams just pension plan and all that. He had he had a guy working form, Frank Sheeran who was in actual combat and in africa and italy. Actual combat for 407 Straight Days on the lines. You can imagine what sort of an animal that was. I got to meet him. He was going to kill me. So i got a right about that. You gotta tell me a little bit more about this. laughs you just wanted to get me to do what he wanted me to do. Bad bad guys. I was trying to help the Construction Industry and i got saw crossed up with them. Im not over that yet. How how long did that go on . Well, that went on until about seven or eight years ago when he died. He killed jimmy half. Im curious to, just me wondering. Guys like that trying to kill you, how did you how did you get away with that . The call the union. Up they are missing favors. I was working with them to help them with the problem. This is a whole another story. When youre in the Construction Business, the worst thing that can happen to you if youre a Union Contractor is the carpenters and the plasterers begin to have an argument over who supposed to do a certain job. Thats called a jurisdictionals dispute. Contractors have no power. So what they have is an Arbitration Group in washington composed of contractors and union people who go down there, they listen to these disputes and they make a decision. Those unions, they get together, and they say can you stay for dinner tonight. The allstar, they make a deal and they say, now look, im giving him the job see. You just say we fought like hell like heck and he got the job. I got in trouble with him. After i got in trouble, then it got worse. So i ended up with this gang knotty is fruitcakes. We were supposed to have a meeting, and i called washington to get somebody up here because he disguised crazy. He wants to kill me. They sent a guy up he had a head like this, did nab a hair on it. Handed me is card, and look and low coupon, consultant. laughs what the heck do you do . Dont worry, im with the union. Union run by the mafia than. He was going to step in and case i needed help. Well it all ended up in a mass and sheeran was going to knock me off. The plan was so typical its how they had done it before. It was just obvious it was gonna happen. Thats all, right im still here and hes dead. I guess he got distracted with other things. Well what happened was he finally went to a priest. I guess he won went to a priest and wanted to confess. The preset all tell you what, you go to the police first. Confessed to them. After you confessed to them, then come back to the church and we will help you out. Thats how it went. Thats the story of the book just before he killed half a half jimmy alpha. It was written by eternity general of the state of delaware. The attorney general research this, and wrote the book. Contacts with me wanted to find out how i was doing and not so happened. They say heres what we want. We want to dollars an hour. I say i cant do that. Okay. Will blow you shop up. Well dynamite you shop, or you think youre kidding until you see it look at the window until you see six sticks of dynamite. The only thing that kept him from exploding was the wicks fell in a funnel water. Then you see a molotov cocktail out there. Theyre not kidding. When they say theyre gonna blow shop up, they mean a good lawyer shop. They say they can kill you, if theyre gonna kill you. Thats another story. What do you think is important for future generations, students in young people. When you think its important for them to know especially about your service in the future . Whats the lesson that they can learn from the things you learned the things you did during the war . Well, i guess im no different from anybody else. It only proves that if youre giving an assignment and you have reasonable intelligence and you had reasonable training and you can put your mind to, you can do it. Youve got a first pick to target, work on the target and thats it. You cant get spread all over the place. As i said, after i delivered the bomb into that airplane, they didnt need me anymore. I could get lost and i did. But i did my job. I got it to where we when in the airplane and that was that. This is something i asked the other people who worked on the project. Did you ever catch any flak and there was a lot of other people talking with the atomic bomb. Then a people ever give you any flak . No, not too much. Actually, if you are involved like i was and they know it, and more impressed with that. Besides, its amazing how many people havent, the atomic bomb, nagasaki, thats another time. So no. You dont get too much of that. The thing i get mostly as what were doing here is people ask about it and for me there is no question about it. It was a strange series of circumstances. I was just standing in the right place at the right time every time. I ended up in this thing. Watch the spends washington journal live thursday at 8 am eastern. For discussion about the bombings with ian toll author of twilight of the gods and Clifton Truman daniel grandson of president harry truman. Then on sunday watch American History tv and washington journal, live at 9 am eastern. As we look back at how the bombings ended world war ii and their legacy and decades ahead with Richard Frank author of downfall the end of the Japanese Imperial empire. Join the discussion with your calls text, facebook questions and tweets. Watch the 75th anniversary of the bombing of hiroshima and nagasaki. This thursday and sunday on washington journal on cspan. And American History on cspan three. Book tv on cspan to has non Fiction Books and authors every weekend. Coming up sunday. Political analysts zero rena maxwell with her book the end of white politics. On identity politics. How to create a more inclusive democratic party. Shes interviewed by sea maria kumar. Then at 10 45 pm. Maryland republican governor larry hogan on his life and career with his book still standing. Watch book tv on cspan to this weekend