Cspan. Org. New york Times Economics and tax reporter joins us now via zoom for the conversation about joe bidens campaign you series of economic plants. The first of which was released last week. The second came yesterday. He first explained the pitch that the Biden Campaign was making would these spending and Economic Investment plans. Thank you so much for having me. Its a pleasure to be here. Which will biden is trying to do is counter President Trump on the economy. President won election in part on the string of a very populous pitch for workers who feel left behind and in the current economy and in particular, biden making lots of appeals to the industrial midwest about manufacturing. The first part of joe bidens new plan that he put out last week its called build better back or build back better. It is an alliteration. A little like a little laugh love of the economy. What the vice, the former Vice President wants to do with that plan is to promote much more of a by american ethos. A look at the government to spend hundreds of billions of dollars more of purchasing American Made products. Hes going to take other steps to make the country to produce more things here so there are more American Manufacturing jobs, which is something that the president s and president ial candidates for a long time have promised. The former Vice President is leaning into it here in an effort to take away some of Donald Trumps industrial midwestern support. 700 billion dollar Investment Plan that came out last week. Followed by yesterday, a two trillion dollar plan, making Climate Change an economic recovery. Dive into that a little bit for us. It is interesting. It is a completely different topic, you might say. As anyone who has paid attention to the way democrats talk about Climate Change over the last decade, knows it is being framed here by biden as a jobs issue. Again, he is talking about making things in america. In this case, electric vehicles overhauling infrastructure. He wants to get america entirely off of fossil fuel production and on to clean energy production. He has a plan to spend two trillion dollars on increasing a bunch of investments in american infrastructure and production and other things, in hopes of creating what he says will beat millions of union jobs in the clean energy sector. But which the president s campaign and others warn would threaten millions of american shops that already exist and fossil fuel. More plans to come in the coming days and weeks. What else are we expecting . He has got to more big speeches we think that will be coming. He has promised that this is going to be a very big plan and i think which each step of the plan we are seeing the Vice President , or former Vice President being able to spend more money. He had the comparatively smallest plan in terms of new federal spending in the democratic primaries, that he is moving more towards the visions of candidates like Elizabeth Warren or cory booker in the way that he is embracing some ideas like potentially a federal guaranteed program for federal workers to expand the federal workforce. Something like the ccc back in th fdr era. Biden, what he is doing is he is certainly nowhere close to the level of spending that Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders had during the primary, but he is signaling willingness to aggressively tax very4;; earners and the wealthy in order to fund what his Campaign Calls investments and lower income, middle class americans. And american competitiveness. Stay on that for a second. We are two out of four plants in and at 2. 7 trillion dollars in proposed spending. Specifically, who is going to be taxed . How much does he expect to race from that . Or else get this money come from . He had in the primaries, a plan just north of three trillion dollars for new tax increases that is obviously growing here now. He is talking about reversing parts of the trump tax cuts that benefited large corporations and the wealthy. He would raise the Corporate Income tax rates, for example, raise taxes on Capital Gains which are largely paid by higher earning investors. I think the campaign has drawn a line in that people, what we consider the upper upper middle class, or truly, even some of the lower rungs of high earners will not see tax increases under his plan. What he is promising as he can do all of this on the backs of the rich and big companies. That is something that democrats in the primary raced to see who could tax the rich more. So there are certainly a lot of proposals that democrats have line around four different ways to tax wall street, or to tax multinational corporations, or to tax very wealthy individuals. It appears that biden is going to be deploying more of those then he said in the primary, that again, nowhere close to a Bernie Sanders level of tax. The Biden Economic plan and economics in general in the camp in 2020 are topic economic and tax report of the New York Times. You can call in. The phone lines are open for questions. To democrats, 202 7488000. Republicans, 202 7488001. Independents, 202 7488002. As folks are calling in right now, i would be remiss not to ask about your forthcoming book, the riches of this land, the untold true story of the americas middle class. What are you writing about and why are you writing about it . It is a hopeful story. I spent more than ten years as an economics reporter in washington, basically chasing this question of why does the American Economy not work for the middle class in the way that i think all americans had hoped and expected after the golden era of the decades following world war ii when we pulled millions of people into the middle class and delivered on the american dream. What i found over the course of that reporting, is that the economy has stopped working for everyone, because we stopped breaking down the barriers that exist that were keeping and to keep very talented people from getting ahead. Specifically, what Economic Research and history shows us is there is a group of workers who, when they surged into better opportunities and economy, the entire economy benefited. That includes women, workers of color, immigrants. Empowering them is the key to revitalizing the economy, again both overall for the middle class after several decades, and in particular, coming out of a pandemic recession when we know that black workers and hispanic workers, and women ha getting them back to better opportunities, reducing racism and sexism that has held them back. That is going to help not just those workers, but everybody. It is going to help white workers in ohio where used to work. It is going to help men and women. It is what history shows us. It lifts the entire economy up and i think it is the recipe for another golden era in america. That book, the riches of this land. Some are reading, coming up in august. Derek, from lake lynn, minnesota. You are up. Good morning, america. Good morning cspan. I have a couple of comments. When is, im not complaining about this washington journal i have been watching for 30 years. Having New York Times reporters on, maybe you should probably have a segment with barry weiss talking about a resignation in how the newspapers supposed to be about the first amendments free speech, is not about free speech. It is very bad over there your news room, i will tell you that. Your editors have been sticking up for their employees. I will get on with the economy. Let me just say, do you want to comment about the editorial side of the paper and how much involvement or interaction you have with that . I dont, really. I know some of the folks who work in editorial but they are in a Different Department than ours an operation, and so i dont really have a comment on what is going on on that side of the firewall. I will say that i have always felt supported by my editors at the New York Times. I have written a lot of stories that a lot of people have disagreed with. In particular, i know conservative americans are upset about what has happened with barry weiss. Ive written a lot of stories that upset liberals. They complained to my bosses about it and they have always supported me, no matter who was angry at me. I have always appreciated. That derek, to your economics question. I would say that there is no fire wall, because you have reporters that took down the opinion editor in the past. You should just read barry weiss is resignation letter. I will tell you about that. My point is this. On top of that, the free press has no free speech. That is really crazy. Lets talk about the economy. You brought up two trillion dollars. Bidens plan to bring electronic vehicles and electric vehicles and all that stuff. We have done that before with obama. By a handful, you should look at a book called by Michael Sheldon burger. Fantastic guy. He was the original Green New Deal guy in the early 2000s. He saw the corruption of what happened. Obama brought in 80 billion dollars, but it went to a handful of people who were basically you invest in the lobby to the government and you get a return of ex. These guys made off like bandits. 80 billion dollars for a handful of donors. That is 500 billion. Million. There was 80 billion. And it did not do anything. And every country, you look at france, you look at germany. Electric prices will go up. That was derrick, and minnesota. Jim tankersley, is the joe Biden Campaign concerned that these plans are picking eu winners and losers . That was a part of the concern when the solyndra issue came up. I think to be clear, i think it is the concern that anytime the government gets involved and trying to promote a particular center of the economy, which is not just something that the Obama Administration did, it is something that the Trump Administration has very much try to do. It is something that joe biden has talked a lot about doing. They are aware of those arguments. Their argument is that this is where the economy is going. Low carbon future is upon us. There is a race across the world to be leaders in technology. Governments are getting involved everywhere. I think the flip side to that argument is exactly what the color said. There are choices you have to make. Electricity prices will likely go up in the event of certain climate policy. It is also true that electricity prices have been fairly muted over the last decade or so because of Technological Advancements and things like hydraulic fracturing. Not all of the predictions have come to pass about any of it. I think, michael shellenberger, i used to cover energy the Chicago Tribune and i have been steeped in all of the arguments. Liu i will say that the economic arguments about clean energy have really evolved over the last decade. The administration the Current Administration certainly has a policy that favors particular types of energy. They are very much actively trying to help cool. That is something we have seen from president s across time. They tried to promote the things that they believe are most important to the National Economy and interest and i think that in a way, democrats are reacting to some of that much more aggressively pushing their own visions for industrial policy. The color mentioned the Green New Deal. This plan announced yesterday, two trillion dollars, certainly does not go as far as the Green New Deal. Were any of those folks involved and coming up with the Green New Deal plan involved in helping joe biden create this plan or any other economic plans that he is rolling out . Which will bite and has had its first off, a very deep veil of secrecy over who exactly are his closest advisers on the economy. There is a rule among the people who are part of some of the task force advising him that they are not allowed to speak to the press about their involvement. It is also true that he has had a very public process. Unity process with his former primary arrival Bernie Sanders. Many of sandersallies have joined with joe bidens allies to present recommendations for policy. Those include some Green New Deal folks. I think that it is unclear as of yet just how much impact those recommendations will have. They have clearly had some. All of this is the material of the campaign. Who biden staffs potential future ministration with, with policies he chooses emphasize over others if hes elected, those are the sorts of things that is very difficult to tell now, that you can look for clues based on people around him and he seems to be drawing guidance from. Fort worth, texas. This is evelyn, a democrat. Good morning. Thank you for taking my call. My concern is regarding the economy. How our relation is globally because, the way i understand it, since President Trump has been an office, we have poor relations with other countries, european countries. Especially china. If i understand about china, they have been planning and seeking to make trade deals with other countries like south america and the Asian Pacific areas. Yes, yet, the u. S. President trump has basically isolated us from everyone else. I was concerned about that. My other concern let us take up that concern, because it is a big topic. Jim tankersley, how much is joe biden looking to reach out to these countries . A big part of the plan he announced last week was the buy american policy, the make it in america policy. Is he looking inward and not outward . Joe biden is trying to walk a line here where in he adopts the things he likes about the president s approach to trying to promote domestic manufacturing while also talking about trying to reengage america with the world there is an interesting concrete policy question that the caller is alluding to, which is the Obama Administration, having negotiated what was called the transpacific partnership. An agreement with a bunch of other pacific rim countries for trade. President trump has next to that, next to americas involvement in that. Joe biden, the last that i have read although i have not talked with the campaign the last i read, the campaign would not seek to reenter that but seek to renegotiate the terms of the tpp in order to create a better deal for america. It is a thin line. He is trying to both say he wants to be more engaged on the global stage and have more influence on trading partners than President Trump has, while at the same time saying he will be just as hawkish about bringing jobs back to america. This is the Editorial Board of the washing times and how they put it, bidens liberal burrowing. Mr. Biden owes a hat tip, a right to President Trump whose 2017 inaugural day speech included the following, we will follow two simple rules. Buy american and hire american. The policy over friday, the president could simply have referenced the old saying it imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Charles out of four collins, colorado. Good morning. Im glad you alluded to the tea tpp. I think we should bring that back and include india to take away some of the business from china and create more jobs in india. And put pressure on china who will put pressure on north korea. We have too many eggs in one basket and china. Besides all that, what troubles me is when isee americans about taxes. If you look back in the fdr years, a lot of the Corporate Taxes were 70 and higher. And our economy was we were doing very well back then. Now we are seeing the marginal rates and everything. Our tax is so low. It is not bringing jobs back. Maybe a little, but you are not going to cut taxes and create wealth in this nation. The supply side trickle down. I just dont see it ever working down and it never has. Even during the fdr years. When they tried this and it didnt work. Now i see this corporate greed, and middle america, since the seventies, the income disparity just keeps growing. Now, we have unrest. All nations, if you look at them. Because when people dont see hope, and when people dont have jobs, then you have revolution. Jim tankersley, i will let you jump in. It sounds like a topic you wrote in your book . I do. Something i read about every day as my job as an economics reporter, i would say there certainly is a real there has been a robust debate of the last three years, but not much evidence that the president s tax cuts have brought jobs and investment back to thenew york back to the United States at the rate the president promised. I would say the data are clear that promises have not come true about how much investment would return and in particular, how much new would come in from abroad. Biden is not seeking to deal with what the caller is Corporate Taxes anywhere near that corporate high. I hes actually not even talking about going back to what they were before the trump tax cut. Hes talking about going from a 21 28 rate which is something that president obama had proposed, cutting taxes down to that rate, so there is some acknowledgment that the previous rate was probably uncompetitive compared to other countries to around the world and their Corporate Tax cuts. I know its getting a little bit nerdy about politics, but it shows a little bit the incremental in some that continues to dominate both sides. Its not like President Trump wiped out Corporate Taxes. He did a very large Corporate Tax cut, but he took it from a high 35 to 21 . Joe biden is talking about crawling that back. They are playing. That is the game they are playing. That is where the debate is. The terrain of the debate. From Corporate Taxes to individual taxes, since it is officially tax day, 2020, what do we know about the joe biden plane when it comes to individual tax rates . We know he would raise the top income tax rates back to where it was before the trump tax cuts about two 39. 6 . Again, plenty of his rivals talked about doing much more than that, and democrats and congress have talked about famously as much as 70 top personal tax rate. Biden, lake many of the democrats who are running the primaries, has not talked about reversing the tax cuts that lower and middle income americans received, which were, as a share of the overall tax cuts, relatively small, but still meaningful to the vast majority of americans. They got a tax cut. One thing though, that may be of interest to some of your viewers in california and new york, and other higher tax places is that joe biden does want to restore the fully uncapped state and local Tax Deduction which would essentially amount to a tax cut for upper middle and higher earners in high taxes places like new york city and the bay area. The one other thing, just to very quickly, if i can, to go back to the question of why the economy booms so much at different times, it is that it can be very hard to tease that out. We can go back and say oh, taxes were higher and the economy was doing better, but we cannot call that causal. One of the things they talk about in the book is that there is real empirical evidence about what was different in those years, after world war ii and how much did it help economy grow and help peoples incomes grow. Im not gonna give the whole thing away, but the answer has a lot to do with reducing discrimination and opening up occupations to people who had previously been told, hey you cannot be a doctor. You are not allowed. I think there is a lot there for america to do, but not entirely have to do with tax policy. This land, the untold true story of americas middle class. The author, jim tankersley. About 20 minutes left with jim. Where will take a call from washington. Thanks for waiting. Hey, good morning. How are you . Good to see you guys. I just wanted to say a few different things. Cspan, im kind of losing faith and you guys. I have been watching you guys for four or five years. Ive been watching you since before trump got in. I notice you guys seem to be a little biased on a lot of programs you show, a lot of the guests to bring on. A lot of the special documentaries you put forth. I was just wondering what is an example of that . If you keep watching, you will find someone that you do agree with. I do. But when you guys do that, it is only for about two minutes and then you put Democrat People on there for the rest of the 58 minutes. Whether it is something good or bad on any aspect of what is going on. I sit and watch you guys do that. Whether its from the women of the president s lives or whatnot. The first ladies. I dont ever hear anything about mrs. Trump. In fact, when you guys new themes coming out about the first lady, you dont even mention her. I promise you, in the first lady series, if we can get an interview with melania trump, we will certainly do that. We will show it to you. I promise you. Stick around. I hope you do keep watching because we do our best around here to bring you all sides of the discussion. I hope so. I will keep praying for that. I dont just watch when news or read one paper. It does seem that sometimes you guys do do that. It is better than some, but tried to stay down the line. I really think that when trump decides he is going to let medical marijuana for all 50 states, and 21 and one American Veterans will quit passing away and committing suicide stop this nonsense than i think it would be better. Steven, out of port chester new york. A democrat. Good morning. Good morning. I would like to ask the question recording taxing corporate overseas profit under the biden plan. Corporations being kept overseas lawyer im sorry i had a hard time hearing that question. Would you mind repeating it . Please im having trouble hearing you as well. I think the general topic was, corporate profits being brought back and when they are brought back. That general topic if you can talk a little bit about that. Maybe if that is a possible debate point and 2020 election. The way that it is now, its that corporate profits have been or held overseas and been subject to at one time repatriation tax under the president s 2017 tax cuts. Then, there is a very complicated system attempting to tax corporate profits on various types of income. It tries to be a global minimum tax, and i think the easiest way to describe both what joe biden and the Democratic Party and general wants to do, is to increase the bite of that tax. That global minimum tax. I dont know that we are going to go back to the old system, even if democrats take power of both the house and senate, and then also the white house. But there are a lot of proposals hanging around among leading democrats on capitol hill, obviously, and within the campaign, about how to more aggressively tax corporate profits that are burned and held overseas. I think that is obviously going to be a big flash point and a big pay for for some of the plans that joe biden is offering. Should he be elected. Illinois, a republican. Joe, good morning. Hi. First id like to say ive been watching you guys for over 35 years. I want to thank you so much for being on my cable stations. It is a pleasure when i watch congressional hearings and watch the whole thing. Then i watch the news and how they reported and see how it differs. I want to thank you guys very much for being one of the few stations out there that give us real information. I appreciate that. You can bet that Cable Companies as well, for bringing you that. Thanks for saying that. My question to jim is that, i actually was a fan of joe biden, believe or not, before anybody realized who he was about 35 years ago. Everybody was like, who is joe biden . But as i am seeing time goal by and i am seeing the stuff he has done an office, the one thing i do bring to point when i have a discussion with any democrat, is that when trump got in office, the democrats hated him. More or less some of the republicans hated him. I do believe it is because he did not want to play the game. He said some things that maybe he should not have said, but i watched his actions. With joe biden becoming the president , possibly, what is joe biden going to do to change . He has had all this time to correct these things. Again, i see the good that trump is doing, even though he may not have done things in the greatest way, but his actions are definitely proven. How is it that joe biden is actually going to make america down a path of equality for jobs and Everything Else given his track record that i have seen over the past 40 years . It is a great question, sort of a fundamental question of this campaign. I have been reporting on american politics and the economy long enough to know that it is something that people are really tired of. I would just ask you really quickly, what policies you think have been most effective that the president has pursued for helping the economy . I think the color hung up. Im sorry. I will answer than. Again, which was a very good question, but i was looking for a little more context. I think with joe biden has to sell here to the American Public is the idea that he can be effective with policies that he has been many of which he has been talking about for a long time. Some of which he has not been talking about for a long time. Both, reversing long running trends of paying for americans in the middle class, or at least of an economy that does not deliver their expectations. But also, to know how to finish the work of lifting the country out of a deeper session deep recession. Which is hard. One thing that biden has been emphasizing in recent weeks, is that he had experienced, in the Obama Administration, they inherited a recession, and he was the tip of the spear for the Recovery Efforts. It is also true that the recovery from the Great Recession was disappointing. It was slow and took a long time to filter down to hardworking americans. I think that is a big challenge he has here. It is to basically convince the American People that this is going to be different, this is going to be a faster recovery and that he has more aggressive or ambitious plans. Something new, something fresh that will help the economy grow and deliver shared prosperity in a way that americans very rightly wanted to. You mentioned about the tip of the spear on Recovery Efforts . What does that mean . He was in charge of implementing the stimulus bill that they passed in 2009. Back when he was still Vice President , i interviewed him about those efforts. He was very proud of a lot of the work that he had done, but he also very candidly acknowledged, when i asked him about it, that it had not done enough quickly enough for the middle class. He talks a lot about the middle class. Obviously he talks about his roots instagram thin, pennsylvania, and he talks about american workers. He will have as the head of president obamas middle class task force. I think hes going to have to make that connection that the color was talking about. How are the policies this time going to be of sufficient and good and effective at solving these problems . That will be a challenge for any democrat in this environment. I also think it is a challenge for President Trump who has two he did not inherent a recession. He inherited an economy where unemployment was very low and the economy was growing. He is going to have to make the case that his policies are sufficient to bring the economy, not just back from pretty good to better, but from very bad to good again. Robert is in utah. He is a democrat. Good morning. Good morning. I would like to ask jim if he explored in his book, the good that the gi bill did after world war ii to build the middle class. In the 19 eighties, under ronald reagan, the gi bill was gutted. Basically. How much damage did that do in building our middle class from that point forward . I will take my answer off the air. Thank you. Thank you robert. Thank you for the question. I do talk a little bit about the gi bill, which was obviously a very effective measure of building the american middle class from particular americans. The full benefits of the gi bill were not available to everyone who had served. Like americans did not fully benefit from what it was offering. I think that that was a short coming. Things could have been even better if it had been. But we also it is a good example of when the government sets out to invest in the human capital, as a politicians like to call it. When it invests in people, as journalists like to call it, then it has a real shot at building productivity and economic growth. Most of all, building individual peoples American Dreams that can spill over to everyone and lift up the whole country. Back to 2020 and the economic debate. From the rose garden, President Trump, yesterday, going after joe biden on several fronts. One has to do with a little bit of what we are talking about, his work during the Obama Administration. The president , pointing out which did not get done back then. Heres a minute of the president. America lost nearly 10,000 factories while joe biden was Vice President. Think of that. 10,000 factories. He wrote something today and he made a Statement Today that i wrote down which is pretty accurate. Biden wins here for 47 years, eight years, the last eight years, not long ago as Vice President , he said, one and five miles of our ways are in poor condition. We are doing a good job on highways. Why did he not fix them three years ago . Why did he not fixed them tens of thousands of bridges are in disrepair and on the verge of collapse. That is probably not the right number. We have bridges that should have been fixed. Why did he not fixed them . He was there for eight years with president obama. Why did they not fixed them . Tens of thousands of bridges. This is what he wrote. High speed broadband. Why didnt he get it . Three years ago, it was not a long time. He did not do any of the things, but now he says he is going to be president and as president hes going to do all the things that he did not do. He never did anything except make very bad decisions, especially on foreign policy. President trump, yesterday in the rose garden. Jim tanker sly, you have watched joe bidens economic pitches to voters. How does he counter the question . Why didnt you fix jobs why did you not fix the infrastructure . During your time in office . The first critique is about manufacturing and it is true. The Obama Administration inherited an economy that was massively shutting factory jobs and they did not rebuild what was lost. It is also true that President Trump, even though he had seen manufacturing job growth and side of the first two years of his presidency, has not come anywhere close to getting back those jobs lost. It has just unfortunately been like a ratcheting down of america over the last several decades, where a recession comes, wipes out manufacturing jobs, and then there is either little or no rebound into the jobs, in the recovery that follows. The president had seen a small rebound but nothing close to what he promised. The second part of the critique is, actually something that joe biden and donald trump had in common. We both wanted to do massive Infrastructure Spending while they were in office. Yo mama administration gets some with a stimulus bill, but it did not get a second big infrastructure bill, that president obama had wanted for much of his time in his office. President trump had been promised a large had been promising a large bill which also has not gotten through. That has both been the case that both have dealt with part of their time in office a congress that was in part controlled by the party. It is also true that the Obama Administration and Trump Administration briefly controlled fiscal policy in washington. Infrastructure never seems to get done. I think it is a great question why the Obama Administration was not able to do more infrastructure in the time that it had more in congress. The answer is that we have prioritized in terms of legislation. It is a great question for President Trump. Its the same answer. He had other priorities that came first, and there is only so much he can get done when you are president , even when you control the house and the senate. Only so many calls we can take. We will try to get one or two more. With jim tankersley. Patrick from california. Good morning. Good morning america. My name is patrick. Im very disappointed with the media. With what is going on over here. I agree with the fellow, the republican thats that i think everybody should turn off their televisions and start listening to the real news. I was patrick. In the last minute or two that we have here, we started by talking about the economic plans by the joe Biden Campaign. Do you have a timeframe of when that is going to happen and what are you going to be looking for in those next two plants . I think we will see them before the summer is out. I think there is a lot of interesting things to watch. The first is, how far will joe biden go toward the more sweeping, progressive larger ticket proposals that some of his rivals had during the primaries. Hes clearly adopting more of it, but we will see. Hethe second is, there has beena shift in the way that biden talks about the economy. He has always talked about structural changes in the economy. He is talking more about making investments to promote closing the racial wealth gap, and to promote Economic Justice across racial lines. I think that is very much a product of the protests we have seen over the last couple mont. I would be very interested to see how that evolves, not just in a sort of a race plank of an economic platform, but throughout his d8neconomic platform. I think it will be interesting to see finally, what the president proposes. What sort of new economic ideas he has for a second term. With agenda he has for restarting the economy from the depth of what remains a very difficult time for millions of American People. And businesses. 0j jim tankersley, his comig book, the riches of this land, the untold true story of americas middle class. We appreciate your time this morning. Thank you very much. I really enjoyed it. The white house. An issues that matter to you. Focus on a mission, to save lives, meet the needs of our states and health care workers. Along with briefings on the coronavirus pandemic. Supreme Court Oral Arguments and discussions. The latest from campaign 2020. Your calls and comments welcome. Be a part of the conversation every day, if you missed any of our coverage, watch any time, or listen on the go with the cspan radio app. Sunday night on q a. The conservative acting editor, on this special edition of the magazine. Theres a lot going on in our country. Its unsettling times for a number of americans. Everything to having to do with covid, we explore the issues, people and places involved in some of the most significant supreme course cases. At eight eastern we start with