Transcripts For CSPAN3 First Ladies Influence Image - Michelle Obama 20240712

National conversation through cspans daily Washington Journal Program or through our social media feeds. Cspan created by americas Cable Television companies as a Public Service and brought to you today by your television provider. Theres no time to think or reflect. Hi, everyone. We are here digging up soil because were about to plant a garden. I wont be satisfied, nor will my husband, until every veteran and Military Spouse who wants a job has one. At the end of the day my most important title is mom in chief. In 2008 barack obama was elected as president. One year into a second obama turn, the first lady continues her focus on childhood obesity, military families and access to education. Good evening and welcome. Tonight is the final installment in our year long series, first ladies influence and image. We finish appropriately with first Lady Michelle obama. For the first 90 minutes well learn more about her biography and how shes approached the job in office so far. Let me introduce you to two guests, both journalists who covered the first lady. Liza first book michelle. And the journalist who covers the first lady as her beat. Well start with a clip in 2008, Michelle Obama talking about her personal story. Lets watch. All my life i confronted people who had a certain expectation of me. Every step of the way, there was somebody there telling me what i couldnt do. Applied to princeton. Cant go there. Your test scores arent high enough. Oh, i went. I graduated with departmental honors. Wrong. [ applause ] and then i wasnt supposed to go to harvard. That was probably a little too tough for me. I dont know why they said that. But i could go through every curve and twist and turn of my life and find somebody that was telling me lower your expectations, set your sights low, youre not ready, you cant do that. And every time i push past other peoples limited expectations of me, and reached for things that i knew i could do and grab my seat at the table that others felt so entitled to, what i learned was that there is no magic to these people who feel so much more ready than me. I was just as ready, always just as prepared as anyone at that table. We are going to talk about her biography but we chose that clip because it was before she was in the white house out on the campaign trail. Both of you have been observing her professionally. When you watch the 2008 Michelle Obama, the prewhite house Michelle Obama, how has she grown in the job and changed her approach to the public from what we see in that clip . Well, i think shes become more optimistic and positive. I had a hard time her saying Something Like that today. She seems to be articulating in that clip something theres something called imposter syndrome when people arent feel like they arent supposed to be where they are. And it takes them a lot to get over that, to realize, wow, im just as good as everybody else because maybe you came from a background where you werent expected to be in this place. And if she felt any of that, shes certainly gotten over it. She seems very comfortable in where she is. Krissah thompson, what do you think . Shes saying some of the same thing. I think some of the rough edges have been polished off. When shes talking to young people, shes definitely say, people didnt believe in me at different points in my life but i showed them that i could overcome and i made these achievements anyway and this line there is no magic to this. She said that often. So people know she could close this gap between where she came from and where she is and that kids can do the same thing. In your book, you say early on that Michelle Obama once said of politics that sometimes it is a waste of time and she has become over time her husbands trusted political adviser and often his surrogate. When did that transformation happen . That is a really good question. She came from chicago, which is a city of machine politics, a city not politically just or fair to its africanamerican residents. She had a lot of reason to be skeptical of politics when she was growing up, and her family was famously skeptical of politics to the point of where barack obama when he confessed to Craig Robinson he wanted to be a politician, he said, dont tell aunt gracie. Keep that under your hat. And i think she even described herself in 2007 as having been sort of the last one to accept or know that barack obama was really going to run for president. So i think it must have come during the president ial campaign, really. Do you agree . I do. There is this idea that she was a reluctant campaigner. I think she was reluctant to sign on in part because she was you know, they had two young daughters at the time and thinking about the sort of sacrifices that would have to be made. She had been through a campaign for senate that took them all across the state and her mom had to step up in many ways and help with the daughters. So when you think about taking that to the nation, there was a lot to consider, and she didnt she counted the cost, you could put it that way. But then im told, once she signed on, she was all in. So it wasnt that this kind of reluctance continued throughout. When we started out the series, we promised it would be from Martha Washington to Michelle Obama to cover the full span of the first ladies throughout history. Obviously this one is a challenge tonight because it is a sitting first lady. The story has not been told nor is there some distance in time to judge her legacy in history so were going to spend some time on her biography and how she used her first six years in the white house, and we do invite your calls along the way. We hope they will be less about politics and more about biography as we have been throughout the series and join in by telephone, 2025852880 and 3881 in the mountain or pacific time zone including hawaii, the president s home and you could find us on twitter first ladies is our twitter address. Facebook is another opportunity. There is already a conversation on the Facebook Page about Michelle Obama and you could join that and well mix in comments throughout the program. So were going to her biography. She was born when and where . She was born in chicago in 1964. She just had her 50th birthday. So it was january 17th. Right. And you reference this, but what was 1960 chicago like for the Robinson Family . It was a very segregated city still. She grew up on the south side of chicago. There were a lot of different neighborhoods, a lot of immigrants, different ethnic neighborhoods. There was a lot of red lining. The city was just opening up a little bit so her family when she was still small was able to move into a neighborhood that had been a white neighborhood. And craig has said and neighbors have said they remember the white family started moving away from families like the robinsons were moving in. And they would have been aware of that. They would have been aware that opportunities were opening up for better neighborhoods, better schools. But at the same time there was a white flight going on that they would have in some way been aware of happening. Fraser robinson died in 1991, and mother mary robinson, who we all know because she lives at the white house, we dont see her too often but shes part of the first family. We have a clip about Michelle Obama talking about her father. If you watch the Democratic Convention in 2012, you may remember this speech. Lets listen in. My father was a pump operator at the city water plant and he was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis when my brother and i were young. And even as a kid, i know there were plenty of days when he was in pain. And i knew there were plenty of mornings when it was a struggle for him to simply get out of bed. But every morning i watched my father wake up with a smile, grab his walker, prop himself up against the bathroom sink and slowly shave and button his uniform. And when he returned home after a long days work, my brother and i would stand at the top of the stairs of our little apartment, patiently waiting to greet him, watching as he reached down to lift one leg and then the other to slowly climb his way into our arms. But despite these challenges, my dad hardly ever missed a day of work. He and my mom were determined to give me and my brother the kind of education they could only dream of. [ applause ] and when my brother and i finally made it to college, nearly all of our tuition came from Student Loans and grants. But my dad still had to pay a tiny portion of that tuition himself. And every smr smemester, he was determined to pay that bill right on time, even taking out loans when he fell short. He was so proud to be sending his kids to college. And he made sure we never missed a registration deadline because his check was late. You see, for my dad, thats what it meant to be a man. So a lot to follow up with there. But lets start with her father and his influence on her life. If you look at the obamas as a couple, the interesting comparison is that barack obama really didnt know his father at all. And it seems from what we can see there that for Michelle Obama, her father was a very important influence. Her father was a central figure, and really both of her parents. Her brother described their childhood as being a shangrila of chicago where parents spent lots of time with them. They werent leaving the kids often when they went out for entertainment. They did it together. They built the kids selfesteem and made it seem like they were wonderful people to be around and that kind of confidence infused in their lives. They played board games, took family trips. There was a much broader robinson clan in town, and so they knew all of their relatives and went to visit and just kind of described a really warm, familycentered childhood and their dad was at the heart of that. Now, she described him as the pump operator but he was also part of the precinct democratic precinct arrangement in the city of chicago, highly political city. So what was his job and how did that influence the familys understanding of politics and what it could do. He was a precinct captain. So he would go around and in some ways avenues Community Organizer like barack obama. Get people out and get people to vote. And neighbors said that he was a joking man. That he had a very good sense of humor, and he was an extrovert. It may be that he genuinely enjoyed being a precinct captain. It may have been necessary to be precinct captain to get that pump operator job. That was a way with the city machine that you would get a city job would be through your political help. And the other thought i had about both of her parents is one having a good city job meant for them that Michelle Obamas mom could stay home with the children and in a way that many women in their community were not able to do so. Africanamerican women have a much longer tradition of having to go out to work. And so i think that that when she had children, she asked herself, should i be home with my daughters the way that my mother was home with me. But i think it probably made her fathers job seem all the more valuable to have. Could i just add to that, because i think that is an important point. About her mom. She was a stayathome mom but also had a couple of years of Teachers College so she was able to kind of home school her children before home schooling was popular in the way that we think about it, and both of them skipped early grades in elementary school. So you see some things happening in this family really early that are different. So both children went to princeton, and michelle went on to harvard law school. Where did that emphasis on education come from . Her parents. They were really clear this is the road to get ahead. And her brother in his book writes about his mom teaching them to read at home and doing math tables and that kind of thing. So when they got to school, even as early as first and second grades, they were already steps ahead of everyone else and that just kind of continues along with their own hard work, of course, through high school. But theyre excelling really early on. And when Michelle Obama got into a Magnet School that what in a different part of chicago at a pretty early age, she had to take several modes of transportation to get to her high school and leave really early in the morning in the chicago winter. An hour long bus ride shes talked about to get to school. And during 2008, the Washington Post wrote a big story about the genealogy of Michelle Obamas family tracing it back to a slave in georgetown, South Carolina. A question for both of you, because youve both written about this. The arc Robinson Family life is the arc of black history in america, in ways that Barack Obamas life is not. So can you comment about that and what we see in the Robinson Family and part of the great migration in the 40s and 50s, et cetera, and how we should understand their experience . Do you want to go first . You go. You may know more about the family from South Carolina on to chicago and just that arc. We do know that for africanamericans, the fact that her story is rooted in relatives that were enslaved has been very important and connected to just her relationship with the community in general. I mean, when you look back to 2008, there were some questions early on about is barack obama black enough, and you never heard that sort of thing about Michelle Obama, of course. And i think part of that is rooted in the more traditional africanamerican experience. And so in that way she kind of serves as a validator for him in many ways. She definitely served as a validator in chicago politics. So that was important. So what do you want to add about the Robinson Family history . Just as you say. I mean, her familys history is quintessential in that some of her family stayed in georgetown and she has relatives who are still there. There was a train depot very close to town and some at least one of her male ancestors, i think it would have been i cant remember. Im sorry, her grandfather, great grandfather, traveled to chicago because thats where the trains went and was able to settle in the south side where there was meat packing plants and the stockyards and all of the industrial labor. There was still a lot of racism and different wage scales for white and black men but it was better than the south. And then the Robinson Family was able to establish a very broad and rooted family in chicago so that when she and barack obama were first going out, that was his that was a real epiphany for him, an experience to be in such a rooted family where your uncles were coming around and people were visiting with each other. It was just a different family life than he had experienced. Before we leave her childhood years, Adrian Wilber asked mrs. Obama is into having children exercise more. I wonder if she played any sports when she was younger. She did ballet in high school so she danced. And her brother writes a little bit about this in his book describing his sister as being w very competitive. She wanted to win board games and foot races and that kind of thing. And if my recollection is right, part of the reason she didnt continue no, let me pause. She said that she didnt do many sports in high school and beyond because, like liza said, she was taking the bus back and forth and it would have kept her at school too late to be able to do some of those after school extracurricular programs. Because craig went to a different high school, a Parochial School where she could play basketball. And she said she resisted playing basketball because she was tall and people thought she a would be likely to play wkt. That sounds and not being able to beat her brother at it, too. The first lady is 511. Do you have any idea when she reached that height . Let me take a couple of calls and learn about her days at princeton and then law school and meeting the future president. Kathy is in aurora, colorado. Hi, kathy. Caller good evening. Thank you very much for your program. Ive been watching from Martha Washington until now. My comment is that i am a romantic, and i see some the president s and their wives seem to show a lot of love and all of this. For instance, pat and richard nixon, they didnt seem i think he loved her but he just didnt show it. I could see it with michelle and president obama. That they really do love one another. It is not a phoney. I think they do care for each other and enjoy each others company. That was just my comment. And i think that this is so important for the people of the United States, or any kind of United States, or any kind of country to say, hey, these two people do love one another and i dont care if youre a republican or democrat, i think it is so important that they do show that they do care and dont put on a show. Thank you, kathy. Also, since weve been moving through history with this series, have Society Standards changed where were more welcoming of seeing the emotional, personal side of the people in the white house than we might have been . I think so. In part just because of Reality Television if nothing else, right. Were so intimately involved with people that we dont know well and in some ways people feel like they know the obamas and their relationship because it is on public display and something of the same way. We catch wind when theyre on date night. We know that last weekend they had an early valentines day dinner and that kind of thing and the fact that is out in public, and people see them warmly touching each other and hugging, you know, and even his campaign at one point sent out a photo of them together husbands one another, both embracing one another. That just went viral. And then there were pieces in newspapers, sort of thinking about what it means to see a kind of modern marriage in the white house. And considering those ideas. Well, add the other layer to that, a modern marriage in the white house and an africanamerican couple. You write in one of your articles that valerie jarrett, who has been with the first lady since the beginning, said they are cognizant of this role model, the importance they have. And would you comment about then how much of this is a conscience effort . I think it is very conscience. And it is not just for young people who have been a focus of both the president and first lady but also for families. There is so much talk now about how you do family well in this country. And they understand that people are hungry for that information. How do you raise well adjusted teenagers, and to have a woman doing that in the white house and you know kind of giving Parenting Tips. Just the other day, she gave Parenting Tips to Justin Biebers mother. People want that kind of information and i think it also provides some of that sort of personal connection that this white house has done. I would say really well in helping people to feel like the white house is the peoples house and this is a family that could be the family next door and that you could relate to. And it is really the first fully social media white house. They have advantages on social media that past president s did not so weve seen a lot of them in a lot of different forms than we have of earlier president s and first ladies. John is in houston. Hi, john, youre on the air. Caller hey, this show is great. I called during the helen taft show. My questions are after they kill osama bin laden, when they saw the pictures, what was his reaction, what was her reaction and will they ever release them and how come they never released them . Thank you. Thank you very much. Do either of you know whether or not she had a reaction about no idea. If im remembering correctly that night, he was at the white house correspondents dinner, and i think she went out to dinner with his sister maybe. So we dont know anything about the private reactions to the photos. We do know they were not in the white house. Keith in greenup, illinois. Hi, keith. Caller hi. Its obvious thank you for taking my call, first of all. Its obvious that michelle and barack obama are really good parents. I was appalled with that ad campaign that came out this last election that was talking about their kids was getting special treatment and this and that, and they should have. They are the president s children. But how did that affect michelle and how did she maintain and not just go viral on tv after that was done . Thank you very much. I think i know what hes referring to. I believe it was the nra. It could have been another organization when we were in the midst of the gun rights debate, produced, i think it is a web ad an not an ad for television that asked them questions about the president s daughters being guarded by secret service and men who were carrying guns and why shouldnt other young people have armed guards in their schools. And i believe the president himself reacted and said that he didnt think those sort of ads were appropriate. But this brings up an interesting point about just how protective this white house has been of the obama daughters. You do see some very fine lines. There was some companies that tried to create some dolls named sasha and malia and the white house quickly shut that down. So the sort of things that the daughters are off limits has been pretty true to form. And also interesting, and i have to move the story along here, but farther back in history there were some president s who embraced having the children be available, making advertisements out of them and the like, so thats been another storyline as our series progressed that weve seen evolve over the white house. Although first ladies have handed down advice. Jackie kennedy handed down advice how to raise kids in the white house. We have her at princeton. So shes a successful student at princeton at a time there were about 90 africanamericans on campus to 1,100. One of the things that stayed with her in politics is her thesis. Because she was a sociology major, and she wrote on the subject of black princeton alumni. Would you talk about that thesis and how it evolved into a Political Tool for the opposition. Yeah. And i have to say, as someone who was at princeton about the same time and wrote a thesis, the thought that it would end up in the public view and be sort of used against you just sort of boggles the mind. Its not something you would think would happen when you were struggling through your senior thesis. But she was on the campus at an interesting time. The campus has opened up to women, to africanamericans students, to a more diverse student body. But there was definitely resistance and backlash against that. It was a time where a lot of students at campus didnt have a lot of experience, havent traveled a lot. So were coming to campus and made aware of their difference in a way that they had never been made aware before. So her thesis, talking about the fact that for the first time on the campus of princeton she realized that she was black seems completely unsurprising to me and yet and it is interesting. It was a sociology experiment where she was writing alumni and saying, did you feel now that the before you graduated and while you were here and afterwards did you feel more comfortable with white or black people, and what kind of responsibility do you feel to the lower income black community. She was working out all of these changes and questions that she was asking herself in a way that seems to me so normal. And that so many other students of different gender or racial groups or ethnic groups would also be asking themselves on this campus. Exposed to a lot of people. Youre making a big class jump and you have to figure out what does that mean and what does that look like and how do i stay connected to where i come from, which is important to me, and also move into opportunities ahead. A lesson for american politics is in politics anything is fair game. Thats right. She moves from princeton to harvard and decides to study law. What took her in the direction of law . I think really part of it was what everybody on the campus said if you werent sure what you were going to do, you went to law school. And i think also for many people at that point, you thought the Civil Rights Act was not that old, and you thought ill change the world. That will be what i do if i do to law school. But there a strong conformist push to law school at that time and i did interview nnd administrator there at princeton who knew her well and tried to talk her out of going to law school. And eventually she said michelle did call her when she was saying you were probably right. But she choose to go back to chicago and get a job at a Corporate Law firm that specialized in Telecommunications Law so she took a conventional path with her law degree. She did. For a while. Im sure you might want to comment on this. But i think getting back to the what do i owe my community and what will make my parents proud, she and craig were part of the first generation of africanamericans citizens who did have the opportunity to go into Corporate America or work for a Corporate Law firm and have access to this kind of a job in a way that their parents had not. So they asked themselves, should i take advantage of that opportunity now or should i go back and work on behalf of my community and the community that i came from, and i think that is something that shes wrestled with ever since. Im going to take a telephone call because our time will go by quickly here. Lisa in portland, oregon. Youre on the air, lisa. Caller hi. Her brother craig lives here in oregon and im wondering if youre fairly certain that she and the president is going to return to chicago . Thanks. Do we know . Theyre beginning to talk about what theyll do. I think we dont know where theyll end up. They have talked about perhaps staying in washington. Right after his term ends because theyre youngest daughter will still have a couple of years in high school. After having uprooted their lives to come here, for, as the president said, to fulfill his dream, that some other members of the family will kind of come first in deciding where they do next. So i think we can look for their youngest daughter sasha to have quite a bit of input into where they end and whether eventually they make their way back to chicago or oregon or hawaii or any number of places. I think we cant be sure. Ora is in hindsville, georgia. Hi. Caller hi. Thank you, thank you so much. I lived in indiana in 2008 and Michelle Obama came to speak. And it was a group of us for obama, and there was about 150 of us and she spoke of a high school and everyone in that room had tears. She was just amazing. She is amazing. And i really enjoyed the series. Ive been watching it ever since Martha Washington. And thank you so much. Thank you. Laura, thanks for your telephone call. To advance our story, she takes a job at sidly, the big law firm in chicago and it was a fateful decision because she meets a young summer law intern from harvard. Would you tell the story about how the two of them met and how long he pursued her. Right. He was a Summer Associate and she was a boss. His supervisor, so i think like modern workplace laws would not permit this relationship to develop. But in fact, i think he was taken had her. Her colleagues, who i interviewed, became aware that in the late afternoonses they would walk by her office and he would be perched on her desk. They could tell something was developing. And i dont think it took too long actually before they were going out and both smitten with each other. But they didnt marry for four years. That is right. Because he was he to go back to law school. So she was in chicago. He was going back to harvard law. And so there were several years where they were not necessarily living in the same town. And she does tell a funny story on herself where she began to pressure him, and they were going out to dinner in chicago and she sort of started in on the when are we going to get married. And for a while, he would say marriage is just a word, et cetera. So she started in. And then with the dessert, a ring was delivered with the dessert, and she tells the story on herself, that did shut me up. They were married in 1992 and in Michelle Obamas church which would become part of the political story, the Trinity United Church of christ and the pastor there, reverend Jeremiah Wright. How did their story become important to the obamas politically . It is an important part of the 2008 campaign. It really speaks to, i think in so many ways, this kind of latent question that was always out there, is america ready for africanamericans in the white house . Is america ready for a black president . And so in some ways Jeremiah Wright stands in as a kind of charge point for that question. He comes out of a kind of strain of africanamerican pastors in thinking black liberation, theology, where there were many radical sermons which were excerpted and lines taken from them that become a huge political problem for the obamas. But he was also a man who, for a time, had quite a bit of influence on them. President obama takes when he is in the u. S. Senate takes the title of his second book audacity of hope. It comes from the sermon and the reverend is talking about the idea of not having very much hoping anyway and holding onto hope. And so these are some of the kind of ideas that connect them to him and the church but when this breaks open in the campaign, if we all remember, there is really a Large National conversation about race that begins. They were married in 1992, the first daughter didnt arrive until 1998. What was life like for the young couple in those six years . They were working very hard. At a certain point, i think barack obama helped persuade Michelle Obama that she could leave Corporate Law and do something less conventional and more interesting, that she didnt have to follow a really kind of predictable path. And i think that is one thing that he did for her. At the same time that she gave a very rooted family, this sense of belonging and chicago, and i think he gave her a sense of what was possible for her. So she took a job in the city government, and then took a job with a nonprofit called public allies. And for that period, he was teaching at the law school and Getting Started in politics. They were working very hard and intensely. Two very intense people. Is it true in addition to community jobs, she was also serving on corporate boards . I read in a biography she served on several corporate boards during that period. I think one was a dance board. Im not sure about the corporate boards. So when barack obama moves from Community Organizing into elective politics, how supportive was michelle . I have a quote from audacity of hope when hes talking about after sasha is born, which michelle would often say, you only think about yourself and i never thought i would have to raise a family alone. And this is an argument, this kind of classic marital argument that happened in their household repeatedly during this time because she was shouldering so much of the weight of raising a family. And supporting the family. Right. And so this is a difficult point for them in their marriage and kind of what hes going to do with his life. And not the first time in the history of the first ladies where the political wife is left to really raise the family as the husband is pursuing a political career so it is a commitment on part of both spouses to pursue this. And there have been first ladies who have prayed for their husbands defeat. There have been first ladies that were really dragged into the white house against their will. It doesnt feel like she was in that camp. Not quite. Sandy is in clarksville, tennessee. Hi, sandy. Caller hello. I want to commend you for doing an excellent series, and im very proud that youve done this. The question i have is probably two fold. Two the main one is the president ial libraries, after the president and first lady will end their service, are they opted to do it either in honolulu or chicago. You would be more likely to know. No one knows. But they have formed a committee to begin to think about the library and where it will be. And theyll begin soliciting, i guess you would call them bids, from cities in different locations. And chicago is on the list. I hear that new york is also vying, president obama spent time at columbia. Hawaii will put in a bid. There are other cities they passed through that are hoping. But there is a sense that chicago makes sense in part because the political start was there. They got their roots. But it doesnt feel like at this point that it is been completely settled. And even within chicago there are different locations hoping to eventually win the library. Were going to fast forward through the obamas life, his time as a state senator in illinois and then bid for the u. S. Senate and successful bid and coming to washington and then the decision to start running for president during his first term in the United States senate. How much a part of that decision was Michelle Obama . Was this something that the two of them strategized together and made the decision together to do . He had convince her, according to the way her brother tells the story, first barack obama went to Michelle Obamas brother Craig Robinson and had a conversation with him like, you know, i think this is the opportunity. I think i should do this. And he says have you talked to your wife . And barack obama said i thought you could help me with that. And so Craig Robinson sort of floats with both his mother and his sister this idea. And in some ways like in the book it describes as paving the way. And as a family they made the decision that this is something they would do with counselors and strategists. Were going back to the 2008 wisconsin speech with Michelle Obama out on the campaign trail. Because another part of that speech is contains a section that stayed with this first lady throughout her tenure in office. Lets listen in. What weve learned over this year is that hope is making a comeback. It is making a comeback. And let me tell you something, for the first time in my adult lifetime, im really proud of my country. And not just because barack has done well, but because i think people are hungry for change. And i have been desperate to see our country moving in that direction. And just not feeling so alone in my frustration and disappointment. Ive seen people who are hungry to be unified around some basic, common issues, and its made me proud. And ill tell you that tonight on our Facebook Page, lot of people were quoting that line back these years later. It has stayed with people as their view of how she thinks about american society. Has she talked about what she was saying there and what she was trying to say . I think she did. I think she did soon after talk a bit about that. And, in fact, at the time, she had said expressed the same sentiment in different ways. What happened in that moment was the Political Press hadnt been paying much attention to her from daytoday. She was out mostly speaking to grassroots and supporters. I saw her a couple of times on the campaign trail, got applause from crowds, people enjoyed hearing her in part because unlike the candidate, she wasnt so strictly messaged. She just kind of spoke from her heart without a lot of notes and at that time the democratic grassroots found that refreshing and then comes this moment where this one liner is extricated from this speech, and it begins to define her. The Campaign Gear has to immediately snap into action and begin to create a different story around her, because one emerges that is not favorable. Any comments on that narrative and how it defined her . And then how the opposition used that to create a narrative about the president as well. Right. And so it sort of lined up with the princeton thesis and reverend wright and all sort of used as allegedly evidence that she was unhappy with america. I think to me where that line came out of, she was talking a lot of that time about racial division. If she was on a college campus, she would say there are white and black students sitting together and she would talk about america being isolated. So people fighting a war, the people at home were going shopping and the twain werent meeting. And there was a sense of coming together that still needed to happen. I think that is where that came from. The campaign kicked into gear after that. There was not another episode like that. So during the primary, Hillary Clinton was primary rival of barack obama. Would you comment a bit about this interesting relationship of a former first lady who is now a president ial candidate, and ultimately is defeated by this opponent. Then goes on to serve as his secretary of state and has a first lady that she can give guidance to about time in the white house. How did that relationship between the two women all work out . Well, its interesting because during the 2008 primary campaign, it really becomes a dogfight towards the end. Theyre grasping. And it got ugly at some points. And you had two really defined camps within the democratic party. And there were the clintonites and the obamaites and there was question about who everyone would come together in a very natural way. In idea that Hillary Clinton would serve as secretary of state did a lot in terms of mending those bridges. And early on in the obamas term, Michelle Obama goes over to the state department, and they have some interaction and are very warm to each other publicly. That was another moment of coming together. Michelle obama has been a very different kind of first lady than Hillary Clinton was. And so in many ways shes relied on laura bushs team to give her staff early on guidance about how things would operate in the east wing. Because Hillary Clinton had an office in the west wing, which was different than the way she planned to set things up. After the reverend wright controversy, barack and Michelle Obama went to nbc and talked to the today show about the issue. We got a chance, one of the many chances to see them interacting as a couple. Well show a short clip from that and then talk about how they used and the campaign the National Media to present a portrait of themselves. Lets watch. So you never get up set about these never. I never get upset, meredith. Do i get upset . She gets a little upset. No. She stops reading the newspapers during certain spans of time. I take the paper and i ball it up, and i throw it in a corner. You know, of course, there are frustrations. She gets protective of me. I do. Okay. I love my husband. You dont want anybody talking poorly about the people that you love. Right. And quite frankly i think hes handled this stuff. I mean, this im so proud of how he has maintained his dignity, his cool, his honor. So i i know youre trying to cut me off when im talking nicely about you. It gets me embarrassed. But but i am proud of you. I know. I appreciate that. Should we take away from this and other experiences like that that the public saw through the National Media. Its also interesting to see them interacting with each other, right . The playfulness there, the way that they and sometimes pick at each other and joke with each other and seem to genuinely enjoy being together. And i think that more than anything that idea of this family and this relationship in addition to president obama addressing some of the issues around the reverend wright controversy head on in the speech that he gave on race did much to, you know, toss that issue out of the window and lead him right to the white house. So john mccain choose sarah palin as his Vice President ial pick, and im wondering about whether or not that engendered a National Dialogue about the role of women that happened during the 2008 campaign. Yes. But i wouldnt say it was a coherent conversation about the role of women. One thing also that struck me about Michelle Obama, particularly compared to Hillary Clinton, she did define herself as mom in chief. I think that had a big effect on changing her image. One thing you saw, before the 2008 election, she still polled her polls were high with Democratic Women and men. But what you saw after the election and inauguration was that her favor rose with conservative women. So i think presenting herself as mother first and foremost did a lot to soften her image. Also something that women of Hillary Clintons generation couldnt say of themselves. Hillary clintons generation, you couldnt have a photo of her children. You would be too soft. Remind people you had children, and you werent supposed to do that in the 80s. You were supposed to be all there. That was a generational difference between the two women. At the 2008 convention where people of both parties, political junkies who watch and size up the candidates and independents of course as well had a chance to see Michelle Obama in long form before this national audience. What struck me when i first met barack is even though he had this funny name and even though he had grown up all the way across the continent in hawaii, his family was so much like mine. He was raised by grandparents who were working class folks just like my parents. And by a single mother who struggled to pay the bills just like we did. And like my family, they scrimped and saved so he could have opportunities they never had for themselves. Barack and i were raised with so many of the same values, like, you work hard for what you want in life. That your word is your bond. That you do what you say youre going to do. That you treat people with dignity and respect even if you dont know them and even if you dont agree with them. What was she doing there . Introducing herself and her husband to the American Public. The guy with the funny name. The guy with the funny name. And, really, she did a lot of that early on during the campaign. I mean, the role of the first lady in the modern world is to humanize if that is a real world the candidate. To help people connect with who he is as a person. What he is like. What hes about at home. In her campaign stump speech when she traveled around she would talk about he leaves his socks out sometimes. He snores. And that kind of thing. Hes a real guy. You know, and talking about him as a man. I think in her case it was even more important because she was also americanizing him. She was confirming, okay. This guy has a funny name. I thought he had a funny name, too, when i first heard of him but then when i met him i realized he was just as american as you and me. He has a midwestern family. So i think she walked the audience through that process. David is watching from provost, utah. Hi, david. Your question. Caller first i want to thank cspan and the White House Historical society about this series. Ive really learned a lot about our first ladies. My question is i know one of the issues Michelle Obama has been interested in is plmilitary families. I was just wondering if the panelists know where that originated from and how she has influenced military families today. Yes, so Michelle Obama got involved with the issue of military families. Really early on during the campaign she talks about having met in many cases women who were raising their families without their husbands who were away at war and just being really moved by their sacrifices and wanting to do something for not only the veterans but their families left behind and realizing that like herself most americans dont have relatives who are serving in the military and she, along with joe biden, joe bidens wuf who do have children who served, joining forces, which is the name of the program which serves military families. Theyve done more than just visit families and go to bases. She went to the business round table and spoke to ceos there of Top Companies about the need to hire more veterans and their families and got some companies to sign pledges to say how many they would hire, so it is a program that is many facetted and she said she plans to continue it throughout her time in the white house. So 2008 Election Night the obamas are victorious. Weve got one of those iconic pictures of the fist bump of the two of them that people will remember seeing. Can you comment a bit about the historical significance of that night for the record for this series . Well, you know, they were going to be in history books regardless because theyre first. And so there comes the moment when the history is made and you see in the photos of grant park this sort of sense of jubilation amongst their supporters there, still a very divided electorate. But you heard afterwards many people on both sides of the aisle who felt a sort of pride in the country for having at least eclipsed that barrier. And as the president , himself, said, you know, he thinks people were excited about that for i think he said Something Like for about five minutes and then they want to know what youre going to do. I think they both faced that pretty quickly, this idea that they did not only want to be history making for having achieved this remarkable, you know, feat of being the first, you know, but then to leave a legacy that is greater than that. Of course remembering they came in the midst of the 2008 financial crisis. And so people were wanting whoever wanted to get immediately to work. We have we had an interview at cspan with the first lady in 2009 shortly after she took over in the job where she talked about her approach to it. Lets listen in. I think every first lady brings their unique perspective to this job. If you didnt, you couldnt live through it. I think to the extent that this feels natural to me, at any level, and i would never have thought that living in the white house and being first lady would feel natural, its because i try to make it me. I try to bring a little bit of Michelle Obama into this but at the same time respecting and valuing the tradition that is americas. At you mentioned earlier they reached out to laura bush for ways in which they might emulate some of the approach she took to the role of first lady when she came to the white house. Right. Leaned on some of that staff knowledge there and just how things sort of work in the house. I mean, it is a significant institution. And Michelle Obama unlike some other first ladies had not been a governors wife, so did not have the experience of really setting up shop and home in that way so she has to figure out how to do that. So she gets some help there. Nancy reagan came in for i think they had lunch and im told some of Nancy Reagans advice was have lots of state dinners. She does kind of, you know, talk to those who know as she prepares for this role. Early on the first lady went out to visit various cabinet agencies which was an unusual thing for first ladies to do. Also homeless shelters and soup kitchens in the city, meeting with local officials. We have an article that you wrote about another thing she did, which is unusual with first ladies. She really bilived in washingto d. C. You have a story called Michelle Obamas washington with a graphic showing all the places in the washington metropolitan area that she visited, went out to work in, made speeches at, went out to restaurants. How does that differ from other first families in this town . It was interesting because, you know, she clearly made this place home. I was able to talk to her staff about that. You know. It was the nonprofits, visiting the agencies, going out to restaurants with girlfriends. Her daughters being in school here, at soccer games and catching shows at local theaters and that sort of thing just really getting to know the city as a place outside of federal washington. And thats become not only rare for first families but for political families in washington in general where you have, you know, folks who are jetting back to their home states, you know, every weekend, and the idea of spending time in washington is almost like, you know, bad for your political life. You know, she has made a concerted effort to get to know this place and this city, this town. And, you know, as i was putting the list together of all the places she had been, i had colleagues saying, you know shes been to more restaurants in town than i have. And so she has not allowed the white house to sort of be as Martha Washington said, Something Like a prison though Martha Washington wasnt in the white house. But the idea that you cant get outside this bubble shes found ways to do that. Including famously from time to time visiting places like target in the washington, d. C. Suburbs. Is she alone in first ladies in doing things like that . Are they able to sneak away incognito in this town . She is probably alone and sometimes for her in terms of being alone with her family and free, it also means leaving washington, right . It means going to camp david or going someplace where she can sort of walk around and not be the target of people. Other modern first ladies have done similar things. Right. Laura bush went antiquing in georgetown and would check out the shops there and that kind of thing. So the idea you have to find some way to maintain a life outside of just the strick churs of the white house. You know, bill clinton also famously would go running. Not so much Hillary Clinton but i felt like the clintons had a presence in washington as well, actually. So the media really has covered the first lady extensively. We have graphics of the number of magazine covers that have been done on her. If you look in, you wrote a book but it was highly competitive. There are lots of books coming out about Michelle Obama and various parts of her life and the like. Is this the way it will be for first ladies forward or is there something particularly special about this first lady . There was intense interest from the beginning and i think a willingness to engage the public outside of the Traditional Press corps and the magazine covers i think are one example of that. It means everything from vogue to better homes and gardens to, you know, amtrak magazine. Prevention. Essence. It is just such a broad spectrum. Youre speaking to those audiences of those magazines in a very personal way in the same way, you know, she is on univision and on urban radio and talking to people directly and in some ways just like social media, that removes some filters and she is able to connect that way. That is one thing i want to ask both of you because this is all pretty soft stuff. The covers of womens magazines, using social media. Youre both journalists who want to cover this woman and this white house. How accessible have they been to you in that role . What i was going to say, part of that is bypassing the social media and going to soft outlets. Which of course are very eager to cover her. When i was writing my book, not accessible. They were being very, very careful about her public image. It was after the, does she like her country episode, and so they were being very careful about her public image and really not making her accessible. She was not being accessible. I had to find other ways to report the story but i think that is really still the case. Here is another clip that demonstrates the obama administrations approach to the Entertainment Media really to help leave us with an impression of the first family. Lets watch. Thank you, jack. Welcome to the white house, everyone. I am so honored to help introduce this years nominees for best picture. This is my mid life crisis, the bangs. I couldnt get a sports car. They wont let me bungee jump. So instead i cut my bangs. So you went for the bangs. You can take it from me. Eating the right foods can help make you a better athlete. Ooh im just wondering if you can do more pushups than i can do. You know, it depends how your back is. I know you get these back issues. No, no. No, no. [cheers and applause] 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20. [cheers and applause] so it has been fascinating during the series since television arrived on the political scene in the 19 late 1950s, you mentioned Jacqueline Kennedy and her tour of the white house. To watch how the political campaigns, the white houses have used this medium to communicate with the public and to portray an image. How is this white house doing, and how is the public receiving it . You know, it is fascinating to look at the ways she especially has sort of collapsed the space between pop culture and politics in the public and the way that she has operated in that. You know, creating these videos that go viral on youtube. Shes on instagram but she is not just on instagram. Shes, like, posting Throwback Thursday photos and just really engaging in a way that captures kind of the public imagination. Again, its not doing that through the filter of the main stream press and so youre constantly cultivating an image and being very present in the lives of every day people. And shes a popular figure. I dont know everyones numbers now but she is probably one of the most Popular Figures within the democratic party. And so to have her, you know, be such a public presence with a team like the miami heat in that basketball thing that got shared around, you know, so much, is a really interesting and strategic way to look at the public image. I want to do two things. Id like a slide on each of our series, some of the key events that have happened between the president s term so far but then also we have a graphic from pew research which you used in some of your stories that compares the president s Approval Ratings and the first ladys. Lets take a look at key events in this presidency so far, which included the 2008 financial crisis, and the stimulus package and all of the permutations thereof. The prosecution of the iraq and afghanistan wars and the policy debates over that. The passage of the health care act. The 2010 election which brought the republicans and the standoff relations with congress and again so many aspects to that story including the closing of the government and the debt ceiling debate. Osama bin ladens killing. Then of course the 2012 reelection campaign. Some of those. Now along the way these are how pew research has tracked the president and first ladys Approval Ratings. You can see that the president s story has been one of coming down over time and the first lady has been both higher and consistent along the way. The president from 79 now in the ohare of about 45. Michelle 68, 76, 69, fairly consistent along the way. To what do we owe that . I think everything that chris has said. Management and tending of her public image, the very strategic approach to social media as well as print media. The mominchief. The fact the family seems to be flourishing and it is and remains a very appealing family tableau. And the issues that shes chosen. I mean, theyre not hard issues. Theyre not mold breaking issues. The lets move campaign. I think theyre in the lines with literacy and sort of traditional first lady programs like that. Melz are in jacksonville, florida. Please go ahead. Reporter hi. The question i have caller the question i have for you is concerning mrs. Obama and dr. Biden. They seem to Work Together so well as political wives but do they ever go out and socialize together . If they are allowed to go outside the white house together . That is an interesting question. I wrote a piece about dr. Biden during the 2012 campaign and so got to talk with some of her staff and, you. See her, and read up on her. She made the point that they work well together. Theyre friendly but they both have very busy lives and so that idea that theyre sort of socializing or hanging out very regularly just doesnt happen. In addition, you know, to being the Vice President s wife which comes with much furor but some official much fewer but some official duties. She is an english professor. Often when she was traveling during the campaign she had her papers with her. Shed be grading papers. And that kind of thing. And i think that idea that they are just enjoying one anothers company doesnt happen very often. It is also a lesson that the second lady can continue to pursue her career but something so far the first lady has not been able to do. Laura bush talked about it with us during the series. You mentioned that she chose somewhat noncontroversial issues including eating well and the lets move campaign. Her staff would argue with you. Not controversial . From Facebook Comments it is controversial. We have another clip with her talking to young people at the white house, students who were brought in from washington, d. C. And it all happened with a cspan evekt from our student cam competition. One student did a documentary about the lets move concept and mrs. Obama met with students to talk about it at the white house. Well watch a little bit of that. Having the platform of the white house is really helpful in getting attention to stuff, right . A lot of times when i do something live cameras show up and people tend to watch and write about it. Sometimes they write about more than what im wearing. So i think its my job to help shine the light on things that are already working, so that is one of the reasons why i chose this as my initiative. I also think one of the ways i think we can move this effort, one of the reasons why i think we can be successful is that it doesnt require, i dont believe, and others may have struggled a bit more, it doesnt require whole scale changes in your life. The beauty about kids, you guys, is that youre young. Your metabolisms are really healthy, which essentially means that once you start moving and eating right, youre going to, you know, you guys change really quickly. Youve grown and everything is working right. So if we make some little changes, get you guys moving more, a little more movement, a little less tv, we take out sugary drinks, make School Lunches better, get you guys educated and your families about what to eat these are all things we can control and it doesnt take millions of dollars and a whole bunch of legislation to get it done. We dont have to count on people passing stuff thank god to move this problem along. But to your point, calling sugary drinks a problem for people and also the school lunch debate. A lot of money tied up in the food industry, and so, you know, theres also some strategy in how you address these issues, you know. Food politics for those who are involved and, you know, are very contentious. You see some of this in this debate, this idea it is part of the nanny state and telling kids what they cant eat. In the video she talked about not needing to pass legislation to get some of these to happen but she very much was supportive of the changes to School Lunches which has been controversial. Pretty big changes aside from teenagers making teenagers, you know, clang about not having as much junk food at lunch. People are trying to figure out how to implement these things and there is support in some corners and not in others. You have a photograph of the organic garden at the white house. You mentioned it is going to be a permanent part of the white house dprounds grounds as far a . Right. Is it like an eternal garden . Well, the first lady wrote her gardening book, which made the New York Times best seller in the beginning. The proceeds go to a foundation supportive of the garden so there is money there to con ton to tend it even after the obamas are no longer in the white house. Very much in keeping with the tradition of the white house. There used to be animals grazing so they could bring in urban chickens. Right. The other part we dont see, the influence she has had on the president , what is known about how shes been able to move him in a direction of causes that matter to her from a policy perspective . Well, he talks about this idea that especially on social issues, she is pretty progressive and, you know, their family talked about same sex marriage before he came out in support of gay marriage and, you know, she was for it and it was a family conversation. Even in her 2012 stump speech, before the Vice President came out for same sex marriage, before the president came out for same sex marriage, she was talking about not discriminating against people. That line was in her speech. It didnt generate a lot of headlines. She sort of made sure where she stood on that issue. Similar to her earlier time in the white house there is a moment where she is with the former first lady in a school in washington, d. C. , i think in the suburbs. And there is a young girl who is in the audience, theyre just having a conversation about something probably related to Healthy Eating. She raises her hand and said what should i do . My mom doesnt have papers. To the first ladies who were there. That was a really gripping moment. So it is hard to imagine there werent conversations back at the white house about this encounter and immigration. Liz is watching us in bridge, delaware. Hi, liz. Youre on the air. Caller hi, susan. Thank you for the program. Ive been enjoying it. Thank you. Caller id like to ask your guest how Michelle Obama interacted or felt about her inlaws. I know family seems to be very important to them and i was wondering how much they met with each other and does she have fond affection for her inlaws . On twitter the same question. That is a really good question. And i cant answer it at length. They did meet. Of course she never met Barack Obamas father. We have a picture and she was at the wedding. Right. I dont know a great deal about their relationship. I dont think it was close. Do you . I dont know and, you know, the president talks a bit about his mothers passing when he talked about health care and im not sure how much time that they did have to spend together. Right. Right. Tomorrow night there is going to be a state dinner at the white house. You mentioned earlier weve asked in each program about the first ladys job as a steward of the white house. How has mrs. Obama approached life in the white house . What has she done for the mansion . How does she use it perhaps differently than other first ladies . We just talked about the garden a bit. That has been a signature part of her stamp on the place. It seems to be the part that she is most excited about. You know, we see her regularly going out for the kind of ceremonial plantings and harvesting and being out there with children but, also, using the house. She has referred to it as the peoples house. This idea that people who never come to the white house should be welcomed in and what are ways to do that . And the kind of bringing in folks who have never been there before. So you see lots of School Children coming through for workshops, when there is a celebrity whos giving a musical performance there will be a workshop earlier in the day with students from local schools. So this idea that you could kind of use it as a third space or in some ways a Community Center is i think, you know, a little fresh and different. We must remember that for a number of years in the beginning of their administration it was closed to public tours because of the financial downturn so restrictions were happening at that point. They had different public interface with the white house than in previous administrations. We have just 15 minutes left and a lot to cover in this time. You mentioned that after the election once the election was won the first lady got together with strategists to talk about issues that she would get more involved in. One of those is going to clearly be education. We have a clip from Bowie State University last year, where the first lady talks about education and its importance. Lets listen. For generations, in many parts of this country it was illegal for black people to get an education. Slaves caught reading or writing could be beaten to within an inch of their lives. Anyone, black or white, who dared to teach them, could be fined or thrown into jail. And, yet, just two years after the emancipation proclamation was signed, this school was founded not just to educate africanamericans but to teach them how to educate others. It was in many ways an act of defiance, an eloquent rebuttal to the idea that black people couldnt or shouldnt be educated. But today, more than 150 years after the emancipation proclamation, more than 50 years after the end of separate but equal, when it comes to getting an education, too many of our young people just cant be bothered. Today instead of walking miles every day to school theyre sitting on couches for hours playing video games watching tv. Instead of dreaming of being a teacher or a lawyer or a Business Leader theyre fantasizing about being a baller or a rapper. What can we expect from Michelle Obama on this issue in the years ahead . Its interesting. I was there when she gave that speech. I dont know if you can hear the applause clearly there but it was very well received. And holding those meetings and thinking about what she would spend her time doing in addition to the Healthy Eating and military families, the sort of connectivity that you could see that she had with these audiences where she was talking about issues around education became clear to her staff and so they, you know, planned to develop this issue of education as one that she will be focused most closely on students, working with the department of education, to just reinforce to High School Students particularly those who are, you know, still early in their high school years, that they really need to be preparing themselves for college, you know, going through the very minutia of it. Last week she was at a seminar where they were talking about the importance of filling out your Financial Aid forms. Shes done a video where she, you know, shared some of her experience when she first got to princet princeton and didnt have sheets long enough for her bed. These kinds of things. The idea that she knows what it feels like to not be completely prepared for this process but that you could go through anyway. That you could be successful than idea of role modeling these things and saying there is no magic here. That is her message in this education. Calvin in portland, oregon youre on. Go ahead please. Caller thank you very much. This is calvin from portland, oregon. I want to say to the host and also the guests invited that you all are my family, my mother is really enjoying the show. Thank you. Caller i have a quick question. First former Texas Governor ann richards and Barbara Jordan said that women are always dubbed with a double standard. Thats why you have to know your own purpose. And i think Michelle Obama exemplifies knowing her own purpose. Just want to say this is a great show. Is there a possible consideration for a Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama ticket in 2016 . Thank you very much. Thank you. Weve had a number of people on twitter wonder whether or not the first lady has political ambitions of her own. Do we know . People often ask that. They draw the parallel between her and Hillary Clinton because theyre both lawyers, and i always say i dont think shell run for political office. I think Hillary Clinton had a passion and policy from early on but you may disagree. No. It is interesting. She has said emphatically many times this is not something that she is interested in. Some politicians say that and you kind of know in the back of their minds there is a sneaking suspicion that theyll run. You get the senses specially in the way we were talking about messaging and the way she enjoys connecting with the public that going through the rigors of dealing with the Political Press would not be something she would enjoy. I think that shell be making an impact after the white house. Shell stay in public life. Definitely. Gary robinson on twitter wants to know how is Michelle Obama changing the role of first lady that future first ladies will emulate. Do we know yet . I think the way she has engaged with entertainment and pop culture has been in some ways groundbreaking. As a reporter who covers her when i saw her at the oscars it was like a head turning kind of moment. What is the first lady doing on the oscars . You know, talking, her staff talked about it. Later, she loves the movies and the idea that she could do it and there was an invitation. Maybe some of these folks in hollywood would come and support some of her programs to help kids and so just really kind of getting outside of the strick churs of politics. I think that is a trail that shes blazed that we may see some other first ladies follow. In the time we have left we looked at high Approval Ratings consistently high in the 60s and higher than her husband much of the time. But she has had some criticism. We talked about some she enjend erd through choices of phrases she used and as a surrogate for her husband but, also, there have been things like trips and vacations she has taken when she has gotten criticized for. What are your comments when you look at how she approached that . Right. Certain expensive sneakers worn to a soup kitchen. She did make a comment there that sometimes they write about something other than what i am wearing but she has cultivated the public image of being very fashionable and she is quite interested in her clothes as well. So i think every now and then there has been a misstep in terms of taking expensive vacations at a time when the country is really suffering. You know, there has been she hasnt had to do much to animate folks who dont like her. We looked at the poll numbers earlier. The favorable rate has stayed pretty steady and so has the unfavorable rate. So there is about, i guess around onequarter of the American Public that doesnt like this first lady and that is not uncommon. You hear from them even on issues like the Healthy Eating and when she, you know, shows up on the oscars, their tweets and folks who are kind of like, she is everywhere. Why . You know, it hasnt been universal love for sure. You write in your book and this is sort of the behind the scenes in how she Organization Staff around her. Shes had turnover in her staff in the years in the white house. You write in your book she is a better boss than employee. She likes to be in charge. She does not like her time to be wasted. She is forceful and can be intimidating. What is the Michelle Obama that the public doesnt see . I think, you know, i dont think that would surprise anybody. We dont see that person i would say a lot but i dont think it would surprise people. She does have a forceful and i think charismatic personality. What you also dont see interestingly when she was in high school, she was terrified of public speaking and had to work up the courage to give a public speech when running for office. Boy, she has really grown into a role of being so comfortable having fun and giving speeches and really has found the spotlight and is very comfortable in it. Lets take a call from jackie watching us in claremore, texas. Hi, jackie. Caller hi. How are you . Thank you so much for taking my phone call. I have two questions. The first one is, which first lady do you think Michelle Obama is most similar to . And the second question is to your guest, if you could arrange for Michelle Obama to have dinner with any other first ladies which one would it be and why . Thank you. Those are great comments as we not only close the Michelle Obama program but also close out this series. Any responses for her . That is interesting. She gets compared to Hillary Clinton. I dont think she is like Hillary Clinton. I mean she gets compared to Jackie Onassis and i think in some ways the glamour and the arts and the harnessing of culture i would make more of a comparison there actually. I think you could take pieces of first ladies, you know, and kind of compare them. There is some of the jackie o. With the cultivation of the image and the family and then, you know, you can see a little bit of laura bush and the kind of being able to maintain that popularity, being very popular with the base. She was also a popular fundraiser within her party. You know, Hillary Clinton is a more difficult comparison but i think Michelle Obama is ambitious in her own way just as Hillary Clinton clearly is. You can sort of take slices of the modern first ladies. I think Michelle Obama told cspan that it is the modern first ladies that she sort of relates to much more than some of the other first ladies, who seem sort of like, you know, pages of a history book. Well, lets listen to the first lady talk about the role once more. This is from her 2009 interview with cspan. But i think it is all an evolutionary process. You grow into this role and my sense is that you never get comfortable if you are always pushing for change and growth not just in yourself but in the issues that you care about. Youre never done. There is never a poin where you feel, there. I am now here and i can do this the same way all the time. It is always changing. It changes given the state of the issues of the country and you never know what those are going to be one day to the next. You have to be flexible and fluid and open to evolve. On the evolution we are coming full circle. On her three years she has left what can we expect . What would you say . I think the Education Initiative is going to be paramount. It is interesting because i do think that 2013 felt like a continuation of the first term so this idea of whether things will be much different in the next few years, youve already seen her be really busy about building, you know, this new program. Shes also said she is going to continue what she has been doing so i think we may see, have seen the Michelle Obama well see in the next three years. I dont think shell stray very far from course. And also sending a daughter to college in the next three years which i think was a really significant transition as a family. I dont know that well see much of that but it is a significant transition. Because of the protection, the bubble they put around their kids during the years in the white house. We were talking earlier shell be 16, the older daughter this year, a time when many children learn to drive and how do you learn to drive when you are in the white house and a teenager. It will be interesting to watch. Michelle obama has a quote which i think you reported on about her life after the white house saying i will be in my early 50s when i leave and so much more i should do whether as a mother or as a professional or as a mentor to other kids. I think she is very representative also of many women. We may see women in general that are career our Career Trajectories are a little different than mens and womens careers may peak later than mens because of the child rearing period. So she has been in this in addition to being a first lady she has been in an intensive child rearing period and when she comes out of all of this she will reenter the work force if you will in a very significant way. If marriage is about taking turns and this has been his turn up next. Right. And so we end it from Martha Washington to Michelle Obama our yearlong series on the lives of the first ladies. One of our early callers mentioned the White House Historical association. I want to put the book on screen they have written which is the biographies of all the first ladies and to help make this special Edition Available to you through the year theyve provided so much as many other historical organizations did of the materials and research we did to produce the series. I want to say thank you to them and all the good folks along the way interested in preserving American History and helping to tell these stories. To our two guests tonight, thank you for helping us understand more about the life of Michelle Obama. Thank you. If you enjoyed watching first ladies pick up the copy of the book first ladies influence and image featuring profiles of the nations first ladies. Through interviews with top historians. Now available in paperback, hard cover, or as an ebook. Tonight on American History tv our series landmark cases produced in cooperation with the National Constitution center. We explore the issues, people, and places involved in some of the most Significant Supreme Court cases in our nations history. At 8 00 eastern we begin with the 1803 case marbury versus madison establishing the basis for judicial review in which federal courts have power to invalidate acts of other branches of government when they violate the constitution. Then at 9 30, scott vs. Sanford, an 1857 case that declared that dred scott and other black people could not be u. S. Citizens and that congress lacked the authority to prohibit slavery in the territories. Watch landmark cases tonight on cspan 3 and any time at cspan dot org. The president s. From public affairs. Available now in paperback and e book. Presents biographies of every president organized by their ranking, by noted historians, from best to worst. And features perspectives into the lives of our nations chief executives and leadership styles. Visit our website, cspan. Org the president s. To learn more about each president and historian feature. Order your copy today. Wherever books and ebooks are sold. After Michelle Obama left the white house she wrote her autobiography becoming. The American Library association asked her to speak to the group about her life and time in the white house