Mothers Brothers Farms and sisters farms as i was growing up. I had a great childhood. That was educated right there in salt lake. Went to the elementary, high school, and the university of utah. Graduated as a teacher. That was my desire, was to be a coach and a teacher. My mother sent me to the bakery for bread but did not provide me with any money. I would try to get the men that were working in the bakery to give me a loaf of bread. I did that often and i tried to get a little work there. To get yoution are connection to get some bread for your family. John my father was an alcoholic and was not available. She was raising five of us on her own. Because she could not afford the liquor, she divorced so she could take care of us kids. The depression was as a young person i thought everybody was in the same boat. I did not realize there were people having three meals a day except when i went on the farms and they had food. I had a great childhood. The rest of my siblings did not have that advantage for some reason. I loved working on the farms. When did you graduate high school . John 1946. I graduated when i was 16. Worked a year and then got a full ride scholarship as a track person for the university of utah. Tell me about your track team. John i went to the coach and said, can i get a scholarship . He said, what do you run . Where you were you a marathon runner . Sprint . John longdistance. I said what do you need . He said a miler or a two miler. I will do that. He said report and i will time you. If you go fast enough, i will give you a scholarship. What is your record . John the record was the last conference was in denver in 1951 at night. It was snowing in june. The coach came up to me i was running quartermiles. He said if you run the two mile, we can win this race. You have to get a second or third to get the points. I ran the two mile and got a third. I had not run that for two years, but i ran that night. On the way home from the track meet in denver to salt lake i was a hero. That was my day in the sun. [laughter] graduated in 1951. Went directly into the service. I enlisted. What was the scholarship . John full ride. I went into education. They paid all my tuition, books. That is very nice. John i would not have been able to go to school. Nobody had any money. What was your major . John fine arts and public health. I was going to be a teacher of art. Painting. And be a coach. You graduated in 1951 from the university of utah. Did you know anything about korea . How did you know the korean war had broke out . John i saw the conflict was going on. I was graduating and i was going to go on a mission trip for church and spend two years as a missionary. Because of the war they said maybe that is not going to be possible. I enlisted in the service to go help in korea. They sent me for training to california. I was sort of gung ho. I was in good shape as a track person. They put me in noncom school and were going to make me a sergeant. Because i was doing so well they sent me to Officer Training School because i did good there. They sent me to Fort Sam Houston to medical administration. From there i was on my way to korea. You were commissioned as an officer . John second lieutenant. Second lieutenant. When . John this was about the end of 1952. Maybe in the middle. You enlisted in the army. Why . John my brother in world war ii was 10 years older. He had high Blood Pressure and could not get into the service. People scorned him because he did not go to the fight. So my friends were running to canada or getting married so they would not have to go to korea. I said no. We have a war and i will volunteer. That is very nice. Were you not afraid . John when you are 20 something you are bulletproof. Not worried about anything. You were strong and healthy. John yeah. I had never seen that much food before in the army. You go to the mess area and there is all this food. [laughter] sprang from about 140 pounds to about 200. All muscle. But the service was very kind to me. They just kept training me. When they put me on the transport to get to korea. We got to pusan. That is when i realized there was a war on. They assigned me immediately. When did you arrive in pusan . John probably february or january. 1953 . John yeah. They assigned me to the 514th medical Clearing Company. Medical what . John it was a Clearing Company. We had battalion aid stations by the fighting. Clearing companies were for back of that, and hospitals were back of that. What does a medical Clearing Company do . John they assigned us to pw camp 5. I had one platoon there. I had a little hospital. About the time i had about 29 patients. I had one doctor but i was a commanding officer. I replaced a major, but i was a second lieutenant. I was i should have more have had more rank to be a committing officer but i was just a lieutenant. I was still in charge. Who were the patients . John prisoners of war. North koreans . John north koreans. Chinese . John no chinese. We sent them somewhere else. But i assisted in surgery with anesthetics. You did not have any medical john yes. I had one done day. One doctor. No. No medical. Assisted. It was a great experience. We had what we called the monkey house, a psych unit separate from the hospital. It was sort of a when i got there we were having trouble with water. I built a four foot thing around our barracks. When we had the breakout in june i was able to put my men behind that barrier. So when the pws came roaring by they went around is because i had a wall and we had guns. We survived that. I tried to call the mp area to provide Guard Service and protection. We could not get through. They had cut the lines. We were a mile away from any helpers. What do you mean by they broke out . John the prisoners. Yes. Tell me about it. When and how . John it happened at about 1 30 in the morning on the 18th of june, we heard the firing. We rolled out of our bunks. Got our weapons and ran to see what was going on. The lights were on in the guard towers between fences that held the prisoners on the others of other side of the fences. What was happening is that all of a sudden hundreds ran to the fence, threw their towel into the fence, and on command they pulled. They snapped these poles that were like telephone poles. Not first since went down in seconds. Another group of korean prisoners ran forward and threw their towels into the fence and gave a yank and those fences that held the prisoners were down. They poured out. About 10,000 of them. 10,000 p. O. W. . John yes. That is what they said. I only saw about a thousand coming out of the compound where we were. There were a lot of them. It looks like a bunch of ants. Hundreds of them coming. So, that little guy made to get little diecut made that little thing i made to get the water out they went around us. They were gone and a matter of a few minutes. All gone . John they said 10,000 broke out that night. We woke up in the morning. The battalion finally got through to us. They said help us, we have wounded. Im not going anywhere. Im trying to stay alive. They said we were in better shape than they were. I did not know what that meant. It was only way later the next day they would come down to see how we were doing. We survived it but it was quite an experience. [indiscernible] john when they finally got through to them they said, are you all dead . They came across right where we were. The guys that were supposed to protect us we were medics. We all had weapons but we were not trained to fight. I was because of my training but the ones i had all medics supporting the small hospital, which was dealing with north korean pows . John yes. We took care of battalion mps as well. So you did not patrol inside the camp, just medical. Tell me about north korean patients. How did they behave . How did they speak . John they appreciated us because we were taking care of them. What was very interesting is our psych ward. While we were having this excitement, the sergeant in charge of the psych ward which was located away from us came in a pair of boots in his shorts. His underwear. He says, help we are in trouble. Those prisoners are patients in the psych unit are going to get away. I said we are taking care of our problems. He ran back to what we called the monkey house. He later reported the prisoners took the fence down to get out of the psych ward. They said thank you and put the fence back up before they left. Appendectomies. We did all kinds of surgeries. Hernia surgeries. Battle wounds. Just took care of all those prisoners, whatever was going on with them. [indiscernible] john they were there with us. We provided food. The same food that you the same for that you ate . Yes. After all that, everybody was gone. It was not too long after that i got these signs of the 64th Field Hospital for the risen are exchange. 64th Field Hospital. So we took all the p. O. W. s we have left, exchange them did you john i thought they had all gone around gone away, but there were about 3000 left. So we had that exchange. Interesting enough. When we were taking them to i think we called it the freedom , we issued the prisoners new fatigues, new socks, new everything. So they would look very good. They scratched each other. When they got to the exchange they said, look what those guards did to us. And ive got pictures of that. Where they were strewn with boots and clothing. That shock to me that they would do that. Because we treated them pretty well. Did you have a camera at the time . John yes. And you took pictures . John yes. And the prison break. It was all documented. So what did you feel when they betrayed you . John the first thing they said to us after all of this , they said we were imperialist . Or theyperialist, portrayed us as public enemies. That surprised us. They were not going to let us go up near the north because we were designated as criminals if you were associated with prisoners of war. Assignment, i an was a little concerned. Well, i had opportunities. I tried to think of the school. I went to the medical school. They had me over in the medical school. Ambulances and i went to the beach, to the medical students. By,ough we were fired on what they said were north koreans. By know, they were themselves. They were organized. Ambulances seem to be the target on occasion. So you were in the medical clearance john yeah. Doctors, how many nurses, medical supplies john we had plenty in our p. O. W. Assignment. We had lots of nurses. Lots of doctors. To takelots of people care of the prisoners we were receiving. You mean the americans . The americans. They were all nurses females . John we didnt have any females because we were too close to the bomb. But the 1964 Field Hospital sort , withked like mash on tv lots of help. , because i had been noncom, a lieutenant, a sergeant, they discharged me to become an officer. They let me go home for christmas. [indiscernible] john i was a sergeant before i became a lieutenant. Butre officers training, because i had the prior service, they counted it as two services. When did you go home . Probably Christmas Eve . 1953 . Yes. What was the most difficult or painful moments of service. I came upon a drunk g. I. They were running back and forth in the bridge. I confronted him and i didnt have a gun and he was going to shoot me. [indiscernible] shoot me. As going to he was drunk and he was having fun shooting at the children. Face,ed the gun in my said he was going to kill me. I was looking for him and several of the south koreans helped me look for him. But i could not find him. He was a lousy shot, being heople korean said, you mean me. I said, i can help you. I said, let me see your orders. And stayed with privilege hospital the whole time. He was an interpreter. How old was he . John he looked about 20. 20 years old . Ok. John i didnt know he was married. I did know you have a little boy. Anyway. I called him skoshi. Wife g i did his his wife had an impacted tooth and was having a terrible time. So i went over to his house. You and saidhed you need me . And you took him there . John no, i dont know how he got there, but he showed up and stayed with me. Because i did not smoke, every ofk they gave me a carton cigarettes. Every week they gave me a carton of cigarettes. I would give them to him and he could get all of the food and roasterys and what ever he would need. He was your nurse . My system. E was he had me with the patients, the troops, with the prisoners. He was there every day. You paid him . Him. Yes, i paid he took the cigarette second round up because i could trade he could trade those for anything and i didnt need the cigarette. The cigarettes. But i was amazed to learn how smart they are. They had fire here. Underneath the house and the smoke, they were out this way [indiscernible] john no, he couldnt go. I think he had a family of six or eight in seoul. I tried to find him. That was out in the village area. This is compound one and two. This is the hospital. His is the psych ward this is the psychiatric patient. The mental problems. Its a little off. We had them separated from these patients. These are the compounds. Ran. Is where the prisoners theres another bunch of koreans the town. My experiences were very positive. I like people and i got along well, and i never had any problems. I took care of a lot of g. I. s. That had problems. Going to the wrong places at night. We did pick up 29 Wounded Soldiers after the break. People. Ve good were training for shooting. My sergeant, i depended on all lots. Was high in this as well. Most of us were out trying to keep this wide. , which were you paid . John not very much how much were you paid . John very much. 100. You were an officer . Yes. I dont know. Not very much. My wife was pregnant. She got all the money. But because i had the service, can you tell about how the army treated you after. John there is a g. I. Program, and when i got back, my uncle wanted me to help him and i started helping him, but then i was successful. He said, teach my son to take over. I look at my wife to say, maybe i will be a schoolteacher after all. I applied at the university of berkeley to go to Hospital Administration school. Until you haveou one year in the hospital. Salt lake is the biggest hospital in utah and i said, can you train for one year . I suggest. They paid me 50 a month. I had a wife and a child. I spent one year, and then, the best school in the United States for Hospital Administration was minnesota, the university of minnesota. Yeartook 12 students the and they took me. You did not go to uc berkeley to do it . No, i thought it was the best school. Runningwho was minnesota said, im not letting you go to berkeley. You are working for me. They paid my way. They pay for my schooling. My wife was teaching school. That is how we got by. But then when i got assigned to , theyital in kansas started me at 175 a month with a masters degree. 100 what . 175. But because i did pretty 275. He gave me a raise to he doubled my celery. And then, when i was finishing, from six offers different hospitals. I returned to selig city, columbus, ohio, buffalo, new york. That is a lucky john story. So, you were working as a , and thatearinghouse gets you to the successful life . John correct. Yes. No question. That leadership training in the military is a discipline and it teaches you things. And how to make decisions. And how to survive. Survived. But i never had to look for job. That is the important message. , they looked for one job did not want me to leave salt lake. They said we will double whatever they give you. In may. Me. Ell any of theset see houses, except that she took me to the museum or the park. We still have examples. But the people were very courteous. I had several people on the street walk up and say thank you and they just assumed i was elitary or x military xmilitary because we didnt artists. Signs but i was impressed by the cleanliness of the street. Nice people and they spoiled us rotten. They gave us a fancy place to ,tay, all the food you can eats and we traveled right out of station. I recognize some of the territory. It was a wonderful experience. What is the legacy for korean war veterans . I had been trained for leadership, but to be able to exercise it under different conditions, i think it makes a different person out of you. Military. Dit to the and to have the Korean People come back yes, it was wonderful. If you have a history of helping people. That is the way it came across to me. I was glad to have that opportunity to get back there. That was six years ago. Grandsons have all taken the korean martial arts. All three of them are black belt. One in new york, two in salt lake. They all got to the highest level in martial arts. I is just been fortunate my. Hole life i think the experiences along the way, i got a lot of breaks, a lot of circumstances have spurred my i have had good. Ealth iran in three marathons. Im going to be 85 in a few days. You still look very young. If you were given a chance to talk with an audience, what would you say to them . Alongi would say, i got really well with them. They were not adversarial at all with the medical side of it. Never had a hard time i think they just appreciated the care and the keeping that was being provided for them. Anger. T see i saw, every once in a while, one of them try to get outs. And theyguard towers were told to get out of there. They were right in front of us. They killed themselves . John they wouldnt go back. They wanted to be a prisoner, i guess. Do you know what is going on . John im just reading the papers. It is a sad, sad story. I think the contrast between south korea and north korea is too much for the world. Is another world. Any message to the young generation. I can tell you a story. One of my doctor friends had me take a korean boy at 18 years old and sponsor him and his name was sam. And i put him to work in the hospital in the evening. Was 18. He went to school at night. I paid for his medical, food, everything. Sponsored him. Trained tim. I ran into him. When i got back, it was the salt lake area and i said, what are you doing . I was surprised. We did not have too many and sam case and types sam, and he said, yes, i owe you plenty. He said, what. Im mary. I sold asia and foods. Children. My all three of my children are in top schools. Straight a students. Had to korean friends with him, but that is the story. Could not speak english. Did not have an education, but he went to work. Good story. But i asked several people. Worked in china for a couple. Ears i should have sponsored a few more people, because they are eager for opportunities. But sam is my favorite story. When did you begin to sponsor him . Probably 9057. 1957. He had time to get married and have kids. Weve got to give him 30 years. Thank you. I will let you know about this interview. Information for more information about the archive and interviews with war veterans you can visit their website at korean war legacy. Rg. Rd ko reanwarlegacy. O koreanwarlegacy. Org. The 70th anniversary of the start of the korean war. American history tv is on cspan3 every weekend. Featuring College Lectures and discussions on the presidency, the civil war, and more. You can watch these in their entirety on our website. Heres a quick look at one of our programs. In 1865, 11 years later on the anniversary of the assassination they unveiled the statue of abraham lincoln. Think. D 11 years to the foundations of reconstruction are probably now. He says that link in was mans ntly the white [indiscernible] for the majority of his white brethren he was radical. This is a great message. Think that this is the greatest speech ever given about abraham. , the other thing that makes it so challenging, by shows thisndards, it rising. Hes the great emancipator. It was funded, paid for, by pennies. Everything is complicated. Look at onea short of our many programs available in its entirety on our website. American history tv, exploring our nations past every weekend on cspan3. This is American History tv on cspan3. Each weekend we feature 48 hours of programs exploring our nations past. Each week, American History tvs american artifacts takes you to historic places. Coming up, we travel 45 minutes west of whitney plantation to learn about the history of slavery in america. In ashley rogers. We are beginning in freemans church, which was built circa 1870 by people who lived on the opposite side of the river. This structure was donated to