Transcripts For CSPAN3 First Ladies Influence Image - Laura Bush 20240712

Laura bush i am here to voice my strong support for the courageous people of afghanistan women and men who have suffered for years under the taliban regime. Each and every one of us has the responsibility to stop the suffering caused by malaria, because every life in every land matters and all of us can do something to help. After studying first ladies and knowing some of them very well like my own motherinlaw or one that i admired very much, a fellow texan Lady Bird Johnson, is that we benefit our country benefits by whatever our first ladiesinterests are. She is the wife of one president and the daughterinlaw of another. Laura welch bush became first lady after a controversial election brought her husband george w. Bush to the white house. Less than nine months later came the 9 11 attacks and laura bush helped comfort the nation while continuing to pursue interests long important to her, including education, literacy and womens health. Good evening and welcome to cspan series, first ladies influence and image. Tonight, well tell you the story of the life of our the wife of our 43rd president , laura welch bush. And here to do that, are two people who know her well through their work. Ann gearhart, based at the washington post, is a laura bush biographer. Her 2004 book, the perfect wife tells the story of laura bush as she covered the former first lady since 2001. Welcome to the program. Thank you. Mark updegrove is a president ial historian, the author of several books about the presidency and currently is working on one on the relationship between president s bush 41 and 43. Nice to you see you this evening. Good evening. Ann gearhart, in your biography, you refer to the role or the job of first lady as theres a quote, the most bizarre volunteer job in the world. Whatever thoughts, and we heard laura bush talk about having her motherinlaw as a role model whatever thought she might have had about how she would perform the role of first lady were upended with september 11th. And we talked to her recently. She talked about that day. Id like both of you to watch that. And then have you come back and talk about ok. How she responded to that and how would we define what her or years as first lady would be. Lets watch. Laura bush i was on my way to capitol hill to brief the Senate Education committee on Early Childhood education. Id hosted a summit on Early Childhood education that summer. And i was going to brief that committee on Early Childhood education when i was getting into the car and my agent the secret Service Agent leaned over to me and said, a plane has just flown into the world trade center. And we went ahead to the capitol. We got in the car. We just assumed as we started driving that it was just a some strange, you know, accident. So, but by the time we got to the capitol, we knew the second plane had hit and we knew what it was. How did you leave . Laura bush well, the secret service came to get me and said, its time to they at first they were thinking they would take me back to the white house. And so they sort of had to regroup then figure out where to, where i should go because obviously people at the white house were getting the the staff at the white house was getting the word to run, and people who, in my office, young women who worked for me were kicking off their high heels and running from the white house. And i know they expected to have glamorous, really interesting jobs at the white house and no one ever thought that they would have to run from the white house like they did. So, anyway the secret service came to get me and senator greg and senator kennedy walked me out to the door and then i drove to the where i went really was the secret Service Building which had been reinforced and after the terrorist attacks in our embassies. And, really, i guess after the Oklahoma City bombing the federal buildings, a lot of them have been reinforced and that one had been. So thats where i went to spend the day. Had you talked to your husband or your girls at that point . Laura bush you know, i cant remember. I wrote this down in the book because i had the logs from the day to remember. But i did talk to george once i got there and the girls, and then of course my mother was the one i really wanted to call because i wanted my mother to say everything is going to be all right. And of course, i called to her and said everything is going to be all right. And i wanted her to say well, it certainly is. Ann gearhart, how did she respond . How did she redefine her role after that day . Well, i have to say, you know, i was with her that day because i was covering her as first lady for the washington post. And so, there was some confusion initially as to whether anyone was going to appear or speak, anything, and then the hearing was suspended but then she and senator kennedy made a brief statement to the press who were there. And i can remember looking at her, you know, when she its always remarkably composed but she twist her fingers at her side, you know, when shes struggling with something that was clearly very dramatic. And i remember thinking, you know, she is wise enough, her motherinlaw was in this white house. She knows her life has changed in this moment. And she said in that moment what really she came to say over and over again which is, you know, i think we just have to make sure we tell our children that we love them and that america is a strong country and we will get through this. It was spontaneous and sincere very much in keeping with her as a librarian and teacher and i think she dedicated herself to that but things were very different immediately. In fact, laura bush wrote a letter to the children of america the day after 9 11 and here is some of what it said, i want you to know how much i care about all of you. This is a personal message from the first lady. Be kind to each other. Take care of each other and show your love for each other. Mark updegrove, as a nation, we had not experienced anything of this level of catastrophe since the attack on pearl harbor. There wasnt a role model for this. What do americans want from the white house . From their president and first lady in times of extreme National Crisis like this . Well, were fortunate in our country. There are many moments when we have in place the right person for the right moment. I think she was the right first lady for that moment because i think we forget now but we i dont we didnt know what to do after the attacks. We didnt know how to react to them. And i think one of the things she said is and she mentioned this in the clip that you just showed. She said, cover your children. Go out there and reach out to your kids. Your kids want you right now. They need you right now. And i think that that helped us to get through that very trying moment. You know, laura bush is the very picture of equanimity. She is a, she served texas strong. Theres a strength that emanates from her and i think we benefited from having her in the white house during that period. Well that texan connection is where were going to go next as we learn more about her life. Would they both bushes say that to know them, you must know midland texas. So, where was laura welch born and tell us about her Early Childhood. Well midland, texas is west texas. It is boom and bust oil country, you know, it is the kind of place that you can see it from miles away, you know, its kind of shimmers like oz from 30 miles away on the horizon because its very wide and very flat and very much big sky. And her father was a builder and her mother was a homemaker. But her mother came from texas Strong Female stock, you know, her mother had managed a dairy farm when her grandfather, you know, when her, was away. And i think that it was very much a place of who she was, you know, and gave her a sense of strength about the land and the prairie and doing for yourself. I can remember when i went there the first time, people always talking about crying, women who were always saying they cried, a friend of barbara bush had said when she moved from western pennsylvania having been educated at smith and her husband came back and said were going to move out there to make our fortune in oil. And she said whats it like . And he said well let me say theres a town nearby called no trees. And then her friend jan oneil who wound up introducing her to george bush said she remembers just coming home from the supermarket one day with two little kids and there was a tumble teed the size of a Volkswagen Beetle in front of her door and she had no idea how to get into her house. So its someway just very harsh and forbidding in that way, you know, and so i think that, you know, you have to have a special appreciation, and i think it made her tough, you know. In her book, her book is really a love letter to midland, texas in a way. Its so much a part of her as you suggested susan but she talks about the sky and how her mother and she used to just look up at the sky for hours on end. And how important that is to that part of the country. And i think what george w. Bush mentioned to me one time was that kind of country broadens your horizon. You sort of see people for who they are. There are no trees and the sky is the limit. Midland, midland you write in the 19 fifties was supportive but it also could be insulating. In what ways was insulating and how did that shape or . Well shes an only child so i think that is also always insulating in a way. It can sometimes be a lonely existence and there werent a lot of folks who came in from the outside. Or when they did, and they came into the oil business, it took them a little time to get adjusted. I think that people had their own hide bound ways of being and their own divides as to where you were in the social stratosphere. Whether you were a wildcat or. You know they used to say about odessa that you know, you raised hell in odessa and that you raise your kids in midland so there was a certain way of behaving in a propriety for that and you went to the messages methodist church. And you went to the metho ist church, you went to the episcopal church, you k ow, in some of the ways f a small town ame ica everywhere. Cr but i think people ave to be dependent on each o her and had to because it c uld be kind of harsh. Cr midland today is, h s a large hispanic populatio as much of texas does. Cr what was it like in t rms of minorities when l ura welch was growing up . < well i cant really speak exactly as to how it was done. There were three different high schools and when they all got together fruit reunion when the the bushes were in the w ite house. , it seems like nobody even remembered about the black high school. I dont think it was a matter of overt separation as much as within a certain class of people. There was almost an obliviousness. And i know when i went back there to do some reporting, lets say i was going across town to do an interview and they would say why are you going to that part of town . So i think in many ways people kept to their own lanes as it were and that had its own shaping. I know that when she went off to sme you, she had said and some of her friends had said they necessarily didnt have remembrance of Martin Luther king and some of the race riots that were going around the rest of the world. Cr i think it, you k ow, there were the sock hops and there was the sodas at the drive in and i think in hat way it was isolating. Cr i want to put t eir parentsnames on the re ord because we didnt do t at, her father was harold b uce welch 1912 died in 1995 and her mother jenna lo ise hawkins welch was bor in 1999 and is still very uch alive. Cr right after the ag of turning 17, laura welch was in a car crash in mid and texas and it resulted in the death of a very close fr end of hers. Cr she spoke about that, she wrote about it in her ook and she spoke about that n a recent interview. Cr lets listen. Mrs. Bush, you write in spoken from the heart about a difficult period, november 1963, and a loss of faith. Your faith. Why . Well i was in a car wreck that i wrote about extensively in my book. And the whole time i was in the hospital, not injured really, i mean i had a cut on my leg and a broken ankle, i was praying that the other person in the car would be okay. And the other person in the car was one of my best friends, which i didnt know. I didnt really recognize that at the site of the crash. His father came up, his father had been they lived just passed where the corner where the car wreck was and i recognized his father but i did not understand that that was mike that was there. And i think because i prayed over and over and over for him to be okay and then he wasnt, you know, i thought well that nobody listens. God was not listening. My prayer wasnt answered. I went through a very long time im not believing and not believing that prayers could be answered. And it took me a long time really and a lot of growing up to come back to faith. The car wreck shaped her in what way . Well i think what she has said about it and what she mentioned to me about it was that you do grow up. When you are young and you expect that the world is going to be a certain way. She would have obtained that maturity anyway but it came to hurt pretty quickly. I think that she is an empathetic person by nature. I think it probably made her less judgmental about other people, in a way that we do not often see in washington. I think she is much more given to thinking people may have interior backgrounds and things that shaped them that we dont know. So i think that has certainly made her the kind of person. I think she worried about more about her own daughters. I think she worried about her husband. She saw at a very early age how a miscalculation can change everything. Cr Mark Updegrove, on hat clip she talks about her faith, would you spe d a little time talking a out faith and george and l ura bush . < sure. Let me just mention one, that she said in an interview that i did with her, that she sort of grew up out of that experience and there were things that happen in your life that you cant change and you have to find a way to move on. I think that that experience, while very formative for a young girl in midland texas, was very helpful to her in the days after 9 11. She had seen the role that fate can play in this world. That faith can play. That faith can play. She realized that you have to move on, you have to be strong. You have to move on. And so i think it was very helpful. I think faith plays a great role in both of their lives. George w. Bush became a born again christian when he was in midland. I think it changed his life and a lot of ways. She is less, i think, vocal about her religious faith than he is. Hes a little bit more lowkey about it, but i think it is important to both of their lives. She is the second first lady to have a post graduate degree. Can you tell us what is important to know about her education and her early jobs . I think that people frequently overlook that, you know, because they make the mistake of thinking that she is a conventional woman which she is not at all. She is quite interior and has a certain modesty if that word really needs much anymore. So that she didnt ever really boast about it a lot. But she certainly was very Self Directed and she came back from sme you and teaching and said she wanted to go on to the university of texas to get a Library Science degree. And she said her father said, now i will never get her a husband. You know to go on and get her masters degree when many people thought if you went to college at all it was for him an mrs degree and then she ery purposefully moved in o a part of austin which is s ill the barrio on the east ide and taught at an al ost entirely spanishspea ing school. And in a very dedicated fashion, deliberately chose the school where she thought she could have impact helping kids learn to read and feel as if they were exposed to other kinds of parts of life that they were not getting. And i think that is a part of her that is really important and that she maintains to this day. I want to tell you how you can be involved in the program. There are three ways you can do. It cr we have a ro ust conversation goin on facebook. Cr if you go to see c pan Facebook Page youll see the picture of laura bush and join the conversation there. Cr you can also twee us using the twitter handl at first ladies, the addres at first ladies and well mi as may tweets as we can. Cr and you can call us. Cr use the oldfashi ned telephone and be part of the conversation. Cr wed like to hear our voice. Cr there are two p one lines. Cr if you leave in the eastern and central ime zone. Cr the numbe is 2025853880, if you liv in the mountain pacific ime zones or farther w st, 205853881 and well get your calls adjust a li tle bit. A question from twitter. Someone er, someone named muppetsfan 968 asked i have a question a out laura bush was she alwa s a republican . < r well let me just s art off by saying im not a fan of the muppets but i ill answer the question. Cr they have their m vie coming out. Cr everyone is a fan of the muppets. Cr no i think she suppo ted eugene mccarthy. Cr i think she was a ard carrying democrat for any years. Cr and i think she mar ied into a republican family and loves her husband, has g eat faith in him in his judg ent and i think supported his platform. Cr but no she is n t a natural republican. Before we leave the midland days, one set of relationships that carried her through her entire life is a group of girlfriends that she made in midland. How important are they to her . What do they provide for her and she for them . I think both she and the president have a very strong set of friends who have been their friends forever. That has been a really sustaining aspect for them. They come to washington, its best to import your own friends. They have been with you at the beginning and you know where they stand and you know that they trust you and you have their loyalty. She particularly has always treasured going off with them. She did that even when she was in the white house. Once a year they would go on these trips where they would go rafting in the wild and they would kind of care for each other. You noted they are mostly progressive democrats, this group of girlfriends, what clues should that give us about her own politics . You know its interesting. I think, as mark said, she loves her husband and his very loyal. One of the things that i have come to admire and appreciate about laura bush. She has navigated this bizarre volunteer job and the aftermath, is to find areas of commonality with people with whom she might find differences. So she would campaign for republicans for instance what i saw her once change a speech mid script because the person who she was campaigning for, she was not going to attack a Texas Democrat the person was running against in that specific way. I think that she has things that are very interesting to her with her friends. They care about literature, they care about the book festival, shes very much of an avid conversation conservationist and environmentalist. Shes pretty active in womens rights and taking those things on. That set of friends that you referenced from midland texas really kept them grounded as well. I think those are people that knew them when. I think that gave them great comfort when they were in the white house and both of the bushes talk about the story of bringing their friends in. President bush having his pals in the oval office. And one of his friends looks at him and says, gosh bush can you believe it . Im in the oval office. They looked at george like and you are in the oval office. The bushes i think are both very self deprecating. Having that circle of friends around gave them great comfort during the stressors of the white house. Laura welch and eorge bush were both young p rsons in midland texas, di they ever meet as children . They did not actually. They attended the same schools but she says that she doesnt recall him and they didnt then i think she knew who he was after a time. He was a roustabout from a good family and wellknown family in midland. At one point, they lived in the same building at the shot over mauve in houston. But i think she t ought he was a bit carous ng so hes had other pursui s and then her friends from m dland fixed them up and the were both, she was 30 an he i guess was about the same ag. Yes he was ready to ettle down and they got engag d and married very quickl, you know in three months thats one thing hat i wanted to ask you about because this is a po trait you both have painte of a woman, a librarian ho is very orderly a very measured a d she did something ather impetuous, marrying after four months of m eting someone how does she de cribe that very brief courts ip in the decision to ma ry so quickly after she met eorge w bush . Ok, shes had a ot of suitors in her life bu none of them quite clicked n and in texas at the tim, she talks about her feelin you might be swept in this romance. They went out on the campaign trail right after they got married. George bush campaigned unsuccessfully for exceeding congressman west texas. They spent these endless hours driving around the plains of west texas talking about their lives and i think k that really helped the r marriage begin on the rig t footing. She always says he made her laugh itch that you wanted somebody that would make her laugh and again. She had grown like kind of an old maid and, you know, by up in some ways as a lonely only child. She did not have a brother or sister, her mother had some miscarriages. I think she really longed to have siblings. She really liked his boisterous cut up nature and he wanted someone who was steady, steady as she goes. You can never know what is in someone else is marriage. She said something and sort of tossed or head back and i giggled and laughed, and we still have that bond that hes funny. One of the great moments for her, when she was at the white house correspondent, dinner i think it was in 2005, and she took the podium in place of her husband and talked about the fact that he goes to bed at 9 00 and she stays up to watch desperate housewives and says, i am a desperate housewife. They have this great report where they can rib each other. Jane is watching us in clean, texas and you are on the air. Hi, jane. Hi, good evening. Is it true that lowers interest in afghanistan actually began in the sixth grade . Ive never heard that. You tell me a little bit more about that . Its in her book, i cant give you the page number, but she had to write a report on the country and she and her father mr. Welch went to the globe and spun the globe and her finger landed on afghanistan and she wrote that in her own book. She talked about how exotic it felt to write about afghanistan. I do think that when i traveled with her to europe and she toured a museum in paris, which im probably not announcing precisely right precisely right. With there are a lot of the antiquities from that country and some of the artifacts that have been saved, and had been destroyed by the taliban, i think she was very taken by this idea that you can have this robust civilization and that it could be blown to bits in a matter of days and really was quite compelled by that. I think she thought that was a cause worth being engaged in. So he ran for congress right after they got married. When she married him, did she know she was going to be marrying a politician . Well not exactly, i mean he promised her shed never have to give a speech. And he broke that nearly immediately. So i think she knew he was from a very political family and she described herself as not being very political. You know, i always think when people use that, it means that they find politics distasteful, usually i find if people say im not very political. It means, they just dont like it. It seems like its nasty and full of oneupsmanship and she really didnt have much appetite for that. So now i dont think she did buta Gary Robinson wants to know, was laura interested in politics or thrust into it because of her relationship with george w. . I think thrust very quickly and again in a whirlwind fashion because the sooner had they married and they have to campaign through west texas. And with that campaign being unsuccessful what was life like for them after that . Well i think he sort of had to figure out what he wanted to do and he went into the oil business in midland and thats where, i think they were there for the first 10 years of their marriage. Its where their daughters were born and where they raised them in their toddler and childhood years. So it was it was i think it was a pretty middle class existence for a long time until he decided to do other things later in his life. Was it middle class by choice or by necessity . I mean they came from very he he came from a very wealthy family and he was in the oil business. Did they choose to live more modestly . Well i think they did both have a certain modesty about them in that way that continues today. I mean they dont have the worlds hugest most wellappointed house in dallas, you know, its certainly nice. I think he felt a strong need to make it on his own i mean i would defer to you. Because you are working on this book about the relationship between them but as you find with a lot of sons, you didnt want to feel as if he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, you know, or that expression hes thought he, you know hes a single and. Right, hes. Yes. Was born out there on third base and thought he hit a triple. Yes, exactly. Right. Exactly. I think that the other thing is that midland is both a boom town which it is right now, and a bust town, depending on the oil industry and when he was coming up in the oil industry, it was really in bust mode. It was not a very prosperous business to be in at that time. So he struggled in that business before finding Great Success as the owner of the texas rangers. And so he always had his fathers friends who were there to bail them out. So certainly they were not uncomfortable by any stretch of the imagination. The twins barbara and jenna were born on november 25th, 1981. But you write in your book and laura bush and hers that they had considered adoption before the babies were born. What was parenthood for them and can you talk about how their children were raised . Well i think that she very much wanted to have children. She always knew she wanted to have children and she always imagined herself as having a family. And i think she they described that both as being a very idyllic time. She really loved reading to these darling little girls and raising them and being very immersed in caring for them. I think that, you know, you your children find a way to challenge your preconceptions of what its going to be like. And they had a set of twins, one who probably has her daddys personality a bit more. And one who has her mothers. I think they delighted in that and think the years that they spent in austin where they were all together in what is in some ways a very close town and a very easy town to be in, they describe as being idyllic years too. Lucy is watching us in waupaca, wisconsin. Hi, lucy. Lucy hi good evening. Thank you, im enjoying this. My question is when youre talking about lauras lack of faith after the accident, was there something that had happened that caused her to to to find god back in her life or or was it an influence of somebody like george had billy graham. I was just a little curious while she said that she later came back. I wonder if there was something that drove her back to believing in god. Thank you. I dont know that there was a catalyst then. Do you know about anything that would have been catalytic in her life that would have led her to god . No, i agree with you. I think that the kind of modesty that she projects and the privacy that she shepherds means that shes not really given in the same way that her husband is to talking and witnessing her faith in a public fashion. You know, she was raised a methodist, certainly always attended church. It was part of community life. And the comfort of that, i think certainly she has talked about the comfort of scripture in a way that is part of her interest in literature. I remember her picking the bible verse out after september 11th, you know, she was looking for words to give her meaning. Right. And give her strength. So i dont know if there is a catalyst, i think its probably more complicated on that. I wont presume to speak for her in that way as to how she found her footing again. And that caller mentioned billy graham and he had a role to play in george w. Bush embracing faith and stopping drinking alcohol. You mentioned that when the two bushes, or mrs. Bush and george bush met each other that he was a bit of a carouser. And he made that decision to give up alcohol and im wondering if we know whether or not laura bush had a role in that decision or whether that was a personal one for him. Well she said to him, famously, its either me or jim beam. I think she realized that he was drinking too much. I think he realized that at a certain point and i think that there was a conversation that george w. Bush had with billy graham in kennebunkport. Billy graham was a guest of his fathers at their compound, Walkers Point in kennebunkport, maine. And i think that as he began talking to billy graham again i think embracing god in a way that he hadnt before in his life. And that was i think im not sure, the threshold of middle age, you turn 40 when he gave up drinking and when he took god into his his heart and i think mrs. Laura bush was extremely supportive of all the decisions that her husband made including i know his embracing christianity in the way he did. He made the decision that he wanted to make a bid for the Governors Mansion in texas. Laura bush right was concerned because of the twins being very young at that point. Ultimately, she agreed to support him on this. Allegheny tableau wants to know what was lauras experience like as first lady of texas . Seems like shed be embraced easily by the people there, was she . I think she was embraced pretty easily and i think in many ways is very low key position. She would talk about how she liked ducking out the backdoor and going around the corner to the drug store or going to post office to buy postage stamps. Its kind of hard to imagine with everything thats happened after september 11th that somebody could live like that today. I think she really enjoyed it. I think she had a rich life. She started the texas book festival. She very quietly once again without calling and much attention to herself i think had influence on him with his education initiatives. Not in the sort of you will do this way, but as is the case with lots of married people, he learned about what role Early Childhood education have about environmental print, early literacy. And she talked about the importance of that. He adopted that. I think that they very much enjoyed that life in those years. And for the girls it was a little easier for them there too. I mean, they could be part of a set of wellconnected upper middle class kids in austin. Kind of knew each other and nobody really looked at them too harshly. As the son of a president , he certainly understood what life would be like in the house, what the rigors of a campaign would be like. When he decided that he would like to throw his hat into the ring for the president ial election, how supportive was laura bush at that point . Well, i think she was she was supportive of his his intentions. Theres no question about. And i think she was confident hed win. When he had his his mind set on the the state house in texas, when everyone thought he was going to lose to ann richards, she knew he was going to win. He knew that he was sort of tenacious in his in his drive for things. And i think she had that same faith when he tossed his hat in the ring in 2000. For a woman who was promised shed never have to make a speech, in 2000, she was asked to address the National Audience at the republican convention. Im going to show you a clip from that one. Many people in the public got to hear her voice for the first time. Lets watch. Laura bush im so thrilled and im honored to be here. And ill have to say, im just a little bit overwhelmed. To help open the convention that will nominate my husband for president of the United States. The president is our most visible symbol of our country of its heart, its values, and its leadership in the world. And when americans vote this november, theyll be looking for someone to uphold that honor and that trust. You can see it in the pictures. The pictures are one of the most compelling stories of this campaign. We first saw them on our very First Campaign trip. There are the pictures of americas future. Moms, and dads, and grandparents bring them to parades and picnics. They hold out pictures of their children and they say to george, im counting on you. I want my son or daughter to respect the president of the United States of america. Ann gearhart, that comment about respect came on the heels of the clinton impeachment and it would unfold to be a very Contentious Campaign in 2000 of course with the ultimate recount in florida, et cetera. Can you talk about their transition of the clintons transition into the bushes and all of that acrimony politically . And how the bushes established themselves in the white house after that election . Well, it had a very important advantage. They had been there before in a way because george bushs father was the president of United States. Theyd spent plenty of time there i think that they had some guidance as to what that felt like, and what that looked like, what the contours of that are like. Running for president is a marathon and if you get there or you dont, youre in for a surprise either way, thats a very steep learning curve. And i think they had some exposure to that. So that transition was somewhat eased for them by that. It was a famously bitter recount, laura bush spent most of that time in austin, as did george bush. And she talked about how, you know, she tried to keep herself busy. There was just this time to wait and not to you couldnt really get too much started very much because you couldnt really be sure of whats going to happen. And once theywere sworn in, she spent many months not being in washington, you know, she had two daughters who were going off to college. So, she want to make sure she got them settled. She saw that as her first responsibility. And i think that she was only beginning to figure out what she was going to do and how shes going to focus her attention when september 11 came along. So, staying with that theme Mark Updegrove there, here again historic proportions. We have the second impeachment in history just before the election. We have a Supreme Court making a decision and the outcome of the election how difficult is it for a presidency to establish itself in the wake of all of this turmoil. Well, i think that and lets go back to what anne saidi think they had transitioned into white house life relatively easily. And its interesting, right before 9 11 occurred, laura bush started hitting her stride as first lady. Shed just had her first state dinner, i think for the president in mexico. She had just done the First National book festival using the texas book festival as a template. She was really starting to get to hit her groove as in that role. And then, 9 11 occurred. And its interesting, she talked about a friend of hers who had called her and said, you know, when you first took on this role, i thought, oh man i dont envy her at all, but now i envy you because you have a role to play. A very Important Role to play as our nation picks itself back up in the wake of this tragedy. And she did an admirable job of it. ,. . . . . We dont really know that. I mean i think that there have been some people who have said they have seen her do that once in a while, shell sneak a cigarette once in a while, but she has said that she give that up because she knew it wasnt good for her because her daughters didnt like that. And knew that it wasnt healthy. A lot of politics, you know, i think that she like many like her motherinlaw before her, barbara bush who was married to a congressman from houston who championed you know, funding for planned parenthood 40 years ago, like those women, they sometimes will give that sense that they are more liberal than their husbands and that can work well for the party. Theres not necessarily evidence that that is true. So i dont know that we can really answer that. I think that in terms of her personal view of the world, i would say that she is not a judgmental and harsh person. But i think that she also certainly has never felt that it was her role to crusade on behalf of causes such as reproductive rights or benefits for same sex couples. I think she has tried to have her impact in areas which we might consider safe subjects that everyone can get behind. But she would feel and i would argue correctly can have impact, you know, her Foundation Gives a Million Dollars away to libraries every year which are woefully inadequately funded across the country. They book festival remains and is a persistent legacy of hers, 200,000 people went to it last year. And i think that she admired Lady Bird Johnson because all these years later, after what was considered a sort of flimsy initiative to put wild flowers on the nations highways, they bloom year after year and bring a sense of beauty. So, i think shes trying to make her impact were she could and let her deeds speak for herself rather than her espousing political positions which i think thats fine. I dont think shes not that ideologue. I think thats such right, i think what she saw with Lady Bird Johnson is, alluded to this a first lady could take on a cause they had their own bully pulpit in a sense. I could take on a cause and make a real difference without, you know, world events sort of coming across their desk and their having to react. And then 9 11 occurred and instead of getting deeply involved in education or literacy, as she would have liked, she had to do other things. You both referenced the National Book festival which she emulated on her model that she built in texas. And she was working on it in just days before the 9 11 attacks. We have a clip next from september 8, 2001 when First Lady Laura Bush was on the National Mall in washington. Shes actually in the library of congress, talking about the first annual National Book festival. Lets watch. One thing that i like about both this festival. The National Book festival in the texas book festival is that theyre right here in the capital. Were right now in the steps of the library of congress for the United States capital behind us. I love the whole idea and the symbolism of books and the ideas of books with our National Government and our democracy because the ideas and books are really what are so important to our democracy. So both of you are authors and the Publishing Industry generally has been thought to be a little bit left of center over the years. Was there any skepticism on the part of book writers or publishers about a conservative first lady getting involved in a National Book possible . And if so, how did she mitigate it . I think the texas book this festival was enormously successful. And she gathered riders as first lady of texas who didnt essentially share the politics of her husband. And they had a wonderful experience. I think that might have helped. But i think books are in easy cause to get behind whether your liberal or conservative. And so that wasnt easy rallying point for all. Well, she did have an issue in the white house then after the war began in which she had been having a series of symposiums. One on libraries and the history of libraries and the role they had played. And one she was going to do on poetry. She had invited a number of american poets, some of who were very much leftofcenter and very opposed to the war and quite outspoken on that subject. They spoke out about it, they said they wouldnt come and if they did they would protest. And in the end they we got loud enough that she canceled it in the face of that. So it was not without controversy. She certainly wasnt universally accepted. And there have been a number of librarians overtime i think you have questioned whether she has thrown her might into the fights over educational texts and the idea of whether we teach evolution or whether we teach Sex Education and emphasize abstinence. Those kinds of intellectual arguments have sometimes sort of ensnared her despite her efforts to stay away from that. Well on that note Pablo Miguel Martinez s on facebook references that and so then mrs. Bush invited and then disinvited posts to the white house, how has mrs. Bush every commented directly on that debacle as this viewer calls it whos has she ever spoken out about what that meant . Not that im aware of. Not that im aware of. I think she has a tendency to say that it is unfortunate that people cannot come together and have a civilized discussion. But once again, you might be able to find some Common Ground if you get beyond that wreck rhetoric. I dont think she has spoken about it directly. Martha is watching us in alexandria virginia in the washington suburbs. Hi martha youre on. Hey. Thank you so much for taking my call. You know its interesting that between laura bush and last week, Hillary Clinton, they are two women of my generation. One has chosen one path one has chosen another path. Both women i admire very much. The one success that they have had is that they have both raised strong successful young women. Can you comment on the difference between the two . And why . Thank you. Thanks very much. I guess on the difference between the two and why they have both managed to a strong women or. Thats what she is implying . Very different women yet their children are both strong. Well i guess what i would say and i guess i believe this myself, i would like to think as a strong woman who i hope has raised strong and successful daughters, i think there should be room in america for all kinds of women to have all kinds of personalities and temperaments and paths. And to devote our attention and whatever ways we want to whether we set aside our own careers for a time, whether we pick them back up again, whether we stitch our lives together through those decades, make it work within our own families. We each have our own ways we can pursue that yet we can all reach the same kinds of levels of what we would feel as satisfaction and success in raising our children. Yes, i think they are very different women. I think they also are both women, however, who is as first ladies and i would say this a lot of these first ladies. They saw their time in office as being primarily to be a support for their husband. I think there are people that rubs the wrong way. Like its an anti feminist position. You should be able to work, you should be able to certainly pursue your own interests. Maybe you can disagree with your husband, but i think that in particular hothouse of being in the white house and the stresses on any couple who is in that job, if you dont have a strong partnership, that president is not going to be as successful as he can be. To put in another way, he may be even less successful than he might have been. I think george bush has certainly spoken about that directly and every one of them has spoken about that. I think it is a partnership that is in integral one to the health of the american democracy. In november of 2001, just shortly after the attacks, laura bush made a bit of first lady history by becoming the first lady to deliberately president s weekly radio address which is a custom many of you probably listen to today with president obama. Heres her reflections on that experience and youll also hear a little bit of that address that she gave. Laura bush, did it surprise you at first when you first became first lady at the platform that you were given and the voice you had . I knew it. I knew that of course. I knew it intellectually because i had seen my mother in law and the platform that she had to talk about literacy which was her particular interest. I had seen lady bridge on scene and how she had influenced me even here at home in texas because of her interest in native plants. But i did not really know it until i made the president s radio address, the president ial radio address, in the fall of 2001 after those terrorist attack to talk about the way women and children were treated by the taliban in afghanistan. Good morning, im laura bush. And im delivering this weeks radio address to kick off a worldwide effort to focus on the brutality against women and children by the allocate a terrorist network and the regime it supports in afghanistan, the taliban. That regime is now in retreat across much of the country and the people of afghanistan, especially women, are rejoicing. Afghan women know through hard experience what the rest of the world is discovering, the brutal oppression of women is a central goal of the terrorists. Not only because our hearts break for the women and children in afghanistan, but also because in afghanistan, we see the world the terrorists would like to impose on the rest of us. All of us have an obligation to speak out. We may come from different backgrounds and faiths, but parents the world over love their children. We respect our mothers, our sisters and daughters. Fighting brutality against women and children is not the expression of the specific culture. Its the acceptance of our common humanity. And thats the first time i really realized that people heard me. And that what i said people listened to. And so then i knew from then on although i think you dont ever really know it intellectually until maybe after you leave and see what the platform is. Mark updegrove that experience helps laura bush find her voice as first lady. Yes she did find her voice in that issue. And she talks about going to austin to visit her daughter at the university of texas. Janet was attending college there at the time. And going with janet to a Department Store and there were a couple of middle eastern women behind the counter who thanked her for making that speech and raising awareness about the brutal treatment of women and under the taliban in afghanistan. And she realized at that moment what a profound difference she could make. You know, i guess when youre in a studio making radio addresses, you dont see the people that effects. But it was that moment that told her that she was making a difference. And how did she use that voice when she found it . Well i think shes always been torn because she is one of the few people i have ever encountered in washington who refuses to take credit for what he has in conflict. I mean this is a city where people are always taking credit for things they had nothing to do with. And for instance, she was instrumental in spring a program whereby Liz Claiborne and the Singer Sewing Machine Company donated services and goods to women in afghanistan so that they could become selfsufficient. You know, thinking about our previous caller, one of the things that she and Hillary Clinton certainly share is very different women is this fervent belief that societies cant be successful if they dont take advantage of half their population and a half that population is repressed in poverty. So she was very interested in doing that although i can remember pressing her repeatedly to say well you know how does secretary chao got involved, you know, how did Liz Claiborne get involved and finally she mumbled out, you know, i just talked to secretary chao but i think finding a voice for her she is in her bully pulpit is results based i guess i would say and she has liked to use it in a way that she thinks will get results people will embrace. She continues to do that today. She really travels quite a bit i have noticed and speaks on behalf of a lot of organizations who are raising money for things she believes in. Like a couple of times a month from what i can see. Connie is watching us in east lansing michigan. Hi connie. Hi how are you . Great, whats your question for us . Hillary clinton and laura bush have either a project or foundation that they both worked on or their steps both worked on . And im wondering if you could explain it and talk a little bit about that. Im sorry we dont hear more about it. Okay both first ladies have foundations. Can you talk about how this works even in the world of campaign giving in finance and how one can be in public life and accept contributions like this and what it does politically . And a salute to the fact that you continue to work on issues that were important to her. The center is a conglomeration of many different interests, including the Bush Foundation which the benefactor dwellings bush including the bush lebron Bush Institute. And so, it pushes continue further the causes that they began to take initiative toward during the white house. Did they do that with the help of donors . With the help of donors, yes, in the bushes to raise money then turned goes to the Bush Institute and projects relating to it, the bush library as well. Now the case of laura bush, her husband isnt going to be running for president again and she certainly was not going to be running for president herself. So in some ways, while there could be influence that those donors might gain, if there were another bush for instance to run for president , yes i think thats possible. But in some ways i guess i think that theyre sort of protected at this point from that, that. I think thats right. However in the case of mrs. Clinton and the clinton global initiative, i think that that remains an area that the public rightfully wants the watchfulness on and i think that those of us in journalism continue to try to track because if she were to run again, then those people who have paid her money for speeches or have donated to her various causes have a relationship with her that we would want to examine. Everyone watching this program knows about the many challenges this country faced during the eight years of the Bush Administration. It was a difficult time for the country not only the 9 11 attacks. But after that the decision to pursue the wars in iraq and afghanistan, also during that time period, there was hurricane katrina. And that ultimately the 2008 financial crisis and on the domestic policy side of the Big Initiative was no child left behind, the major Education Administration the administrations major education initiative. Laura bush continued to pursue her own interests even as the country responded to the various Bush Administration policies. How challenging is it this is a weve seen this throughout the series about first ladies standing beside their husbands as the Public Opinion of their work changes, how challenging is that for a spouse to see the increased criticism that the person that youre married to is receiving in the public eye . I think its very difficult for them to see the scrutiny exacted at their husbands. You know, i think because they know the man. They know the real person and very often, we can get caught up in the heat of the moment when we scrutinize our president s. And they have always almost become caricatures in a way. And so for laura bush who is so deeply in love with her husband to see the way he was treated must have hurt deeply. She continued to stand by him, i think she traveled far more in his second term, than she did in the first term and she was, because again, she had found a voice on so many issues particularly relating to women, and tried to further that cause by hitting the road and trying to be trying to better explain his policies to our nation and to the world. In 2004, the reelection bid laura bush was on the road extensively during the Campaign Year and this next clip shows you one of the challenges of being a first lady when youre trying to pursue your own agenda and that pesky press corps continues to ask questions, lets watch. Laura bush im very proud of the no child left behind act and im proud of the way schools and states all across the country are rallying to meet the goals of that act, and also theyre theyre the same goals. We all have the same goals. And thats to make sure every child has a great education. And theres a very large achievement gap between poor school districts, title1 schools and the students in poor schools and students in more affluent schools. And thats what we have to address its not fair in our country, to have that much of an achievement gap. And how has been, in the last couple of weeks for you, watching your husband be criticized so widespread around the world for the behavior of the american military. Laura bush well, im sorry about that but i do know that those prison photos dont reflect the vast majority of our military men and women. And they certainly dont reflect the values of the people of the United States of america and i know that. And its terrible. But the the good news in our country is those people will be prosecuted. There will be transparency in what happens. And you know, thats one of the benefits of living in a free country. So but im sorry about those photographs and im sorry about what happened to the iraqi prisoners because it doesnt reflect our country. Ann gearhart, what are you seeing there . What i was really thinking about when i watched that is i think one of the things weve never really talked much about with first ladies is their qualities of leadership. You know, we talked about leadership in terms of chief executives, the people who we elected to put in charge, think of leadership as also being really specific and targeted and focused about how much time you have and what you can accomplish with that time you have. And so in the case of laura bush, particularly in that second term when she realizes that its her last chance to have an impact, there are many, many things that she may be concerned about that she may discuss privately with her husband, shes certainly not going to relate to the rest of us. She may have issues that she disagrees with him on. But the idea of trying to remain focused on the areas where she would like to have impact and knowing that she can fritter her time away if she doesnt remain what we would call on message but which also can be highly specific and focused is something that we see her do there. And i think that with the, you know, with 10 years passed, i would leave it to viewers to decide if they think they see sincerity there or not, whether she does in fact, say, im very sorry about that or whether she seems as if shes just trying to take a pass on it. What we do know now is that we have had other horrible incidents with our military but for the most part, for all of the people who are in service, it is in fact an anomaly, and you hear her address that there. She was speaking at a school about education initiatives, no child left behind, as we mentioned was a major one of the Bush Administration. Allegheny tableau wants to know what was lauras role in no child left behind. As a teacher, did she support the direction that the president s reform policies were taking . Well she certainly did publicly i mean she i think she was making a speech about education there. And i, and supporting this policy, they talked about the president bush campaigned talking about the soft bigotry of low expectations. And they really wanted to, to narrow that gap, the achievement gap. So i think that what she said at you know, at night when behind closed doors, we dont know as she said to a reporter once, if i have differences with my husband, i wouldnt be telling you. So we, we dont know what she thought but she certainly again as we can see there supported his policy by by speaking about it publicly. On the international front, she traveled extensively, as you mentioned, and she ultimately visited nearly 75 countries during her years in the white house. In addition to afghanistan she became very much involved in the president s african aids relief effort. And malaria eradication efforts and also met with burmese refugees and exiles at the white house. What was, when she chose to be involved internationally, what drove those decisions . I think what drove a lot of those decisions was again the issue of womens rights and their full participation in the societies in which they were. And an extension of that was women, she felt wanted to know that they could raise their children in live to have lives that were sustaining and successful as best they could. And you know, the human rights flowed out of that. I think that the teachings of the dalai lama have been of interest to her in a way philosophically, there have been a couple members of the family who are engaged in that. The president has a cousin, Leslie Walker has been very engaged in that. I think through those conversations she once again saw a female leader in a country who had been repressed. And under arrest for many years, sort of moved her to the president has a cousin, Leslie Walker has been very engaged in that. I think through those conversations she once again saw a female leader in a country who had been repressed. And under arrest for many years, sort of moved her to that. What do you think about that . Yes its its when you talk to george w. Bush about this. And and why he got involved in aids relief in africa, where no other president had really given much thought to to that, remarkably. George w. Bush is did by far more for the continent of africa than any of this predecessors. And the reason is is that to whom much is given, much is required. And he saw that the aids was eradicating much of subsaharan africa. And that he could do something about it. He could make a measurable difference. And he thought if he didnt do that, if he didnt take a chance and invest money in that cause, in the eradication of that insidious disease, that we would be judged in years to come. So i think that a lot of it had to do with his religious faith. And again i think laura bush shares that faith. Next is cathy in du quoin, illinois. Hi, cathy. Cathy hello. The reason i was calling is earlier in this program the question was raised about when laura found her faith once more. And i had read her book and she mentioned, i lost my faith that november, lost it for many, many years. And if i recall correctly when she was on the book tour program for people who were interviewing her about her books she had written, she was asked, when did you find your faith and she said that it came back to her gradually. And she mentioned like when her twin daughters was born that that, you know, she said good things started happening, and i found my faith gradually. And i found it interesting on that subject in her book, she also mentioned, she said the one thing, the one wrenching fact is i have faith that one is never alone. And i think thats probably sums up how she felt about her faith. Cathy, thank you very much for calling and adding to our discussion. Turning to her book also on another issue and that is social policy issues like abortion, and earlier a caller mentioned gay rights. Heres what she writes in spoken from the heart, her memoir. On the issue of abortions, ive always been struck by the deep divide between the sides. And how rarely the alternative of adoption is raised. We have so many friends and family members who found their children through adoption. George and i were fully expecting to be one of those. Today, for women in their 20s, 30s, and 40s, infertility is the issue that is most personal to them and is a private struggle that breaks their hearts. We are a nation of different generations and beliefs, seeing issues through different eras and different eyes while cherishing life. Ive always believed that abortion is a private decision and there, no one can walk in anyone elses shoes. Its something that she and george w differ on, one would say. Well i think she said publicly when she was first lady that she would not in favor of overturning roe vs. Wade, and i think she she was asked whether you know, they had invited whether gay people has slept at the white house while she was first lady. And she said, probably, and the interviewer asked, would you object if that were the case, and she said, certainly not. I think she she let her views be known in subtle ways i think. Interestingly enough, you mentioned that the she and president bush had trouble conceiving. In fact they had, went to an Adoption Organization to see if they could adopt twins and then they ended up conceiving their own set of twins, quite unexpectedly, i believe. Weve been talking a lot in this program about the amount of work laura bush did all the time that she spent on the road and certainly throughout the 20th century first ladies that has been a story told again and again. In the interview that we did with laura bush, we asked her about whether or not first ladies should earn a salary for all this work. Heres her answer. Mrs. Bush, should the first lady receive a salary . Laura bush i dont think so. There are plenty of perks, believe me. A chef, that was really great. I miss the chef. You know, i dont think so. No, i dont think so. And i think the interesting question really is not, should they receive a salary but should they be able to work for a salary at their job that they might have already had . And i think thats whats well have to come to terms with. Should, you know, will, i mean, for certainly a first gentleman might continue to work whatever he did if he was a lawyer, or whatever, so i think thats really the question we should ask, is, should she have a career during those years that her husband is president in addition to serving as first lady . Certainly at the state level, some first spouses have been able to pursue their own careers, but could this work on the National Level . What about conflict of interest in whatever job that a spouse would hold . It is possible for someone in this day and age to migrate from having a life fully outside the white house as well as being the first spouse . Well, i think we have to give it a try and see how we think it works out. You know, i think that certainly the ceremonial aspects of the job are ones that you might be able to find some flexibility in. I mean, we have had other president s who were not married and had hostesses who carried that on for them. So certainly, some of those really oldfashioned ways of being the gracious spouse in the white house we could change. As i said, i think that its a relational job its not a political job in many ways, being first lady. It is a job about tending to the primary, the principle in its highest form as Staff Members do not suggesting that a first lady is a staff member. But im saying that you know, she once said to me, being the wife of george bush is her most important job, whether her husband is president or not. And by that i took her to mean that, that is her primary relational core of life. And she has other pursuits and she certainly has hobbies, many of which she doesnt share, that she takes on on her own. But i think anyone would be hard pressed to continue, but theres always a first time for everything. You know, i dont think there are many first ladies who wouldnt say that the most Important Role they played was as a sort of pillar of strength to their husbands in times of need, being there for them. Well, and i would hope that when we have a female president which i am sure we will, if she has a spouse, that spouse will feel the same way about supporting her. Well speaking of support, we referred to this earlier, but we have a chart which well show our audience about the president s popularity ratings during his eight years in office and as you can see peaked enormously after the 9 11 attacks and then continued downward through the years of his presidency. Laura bush, however, remained popular with the American Public and in a 2006 gallup poll, she was at a much, much higher rate than the president , 82 Approval Rating in january of 2006. What does that say about the American Public and their ability to see separately the roles of the people in the white house . Well, i think that the American People are pretty wise, and in many ways. And they certainly know that she hasnt been elected to that position, that she somewhat is there by virtue of her relationship to the president. She carries on. She does what she can do. She cant be held responsible entirely for the political decisions he makes. I suppose that probably sounds naive to a lot of people but i was always really struck when i was covering her, people would say, but she seems so like this, or she seems so like that, or, you know, she reads dostoyevsky and, you know, she really likes bob marley so what does she think when she talks to him because hes a warmongering man and id always say, thats the wrong question. You are speaking as a voter and a citizen and you have concerns about what youve elected this president to do and you feel hes fulfilling that. But, shes his wife. She too is a constituent but that is certainly not her primary role and the way she looks at it and i do think people discern that. Dennis is watching us in brooklyn. Hi dennis, youre on. Dennis hi susan, how are you . Thank you for the series, its great. My question for the panel is, was mrs. Bush less political and more compassionate and sympathetic than most other recent first ladies . I remember her being so aware of the victims of september 11, saying that she would daily read the New York Times profiles of the dead that were published at that time and recall her many visits to the Walter Reed Hospital to visit veterans. Was this rooted in her being a war time first lady or is this consistent with her personality and demeanor in general . Thank you. Thanks so much. Mark . I think the answer is both. You know, there arent many first ladies who are overtly political, really. I think she played a more traditional role as first lady than say, Hillary Clinton or eleanor roosevelt. But frankly, i dont i think the two things the gentleman mentioned were very much consistent with her personality, reading the obituaries of the dead, comforting the people in need, thats very much a part of her personality. So, im going to interrupt, because our time is actually getting short. You referenced this earlier and that was her trip to the white house Correspondents Dinner and in fact, just as nancy reagan had done two decades earlier, she went to the press corps to have people see her in a different light than perhaps they did, with covering her regularly. Lets watch and those of you who saw it originally will remember this time when she spoke up as surprisingly. George w. Bush and so the city slicker asked the old guy how to get to the nearest town. Laura bush not that old joke. Not again. applause Laura Bush George always says hes delighted to come to these press dinners. Baloney hes usually in bed by now. Im not kidding. I said to him the other day, george, if you really want to end tyranny in the world, youre going to have to stay up later. I am married to the president of the United States, and heres our typical evening. 9 00, mr. Excitement here is sound asleep, and im watching desperate housewives with lynne cheney. Ladies and gentlemen, i am a desperate housewife. Laura bush at the 2005 white house Correspondents Dinner, so you can tell and see as an event that was wellreceived. One of the things weve talked about with each of the first ladiesprofiles is their stewardship of the white house. During her time in the white house, laura bush did a restoration of the lincoln bedroom. Were going to watch as she talks about that next. Laura bush weve refurbished the lincoln bedroom; i would say thats the biggest renovation project that weve worked on. That lincoln bedroom was last done by truman, when he set it up to be the lincoln bedroom, to have the lincoln furniture in it. When lincoln lived here the room was his office, and when truman redid the house in the late 40s and early 50s, he set up that room, the room now we call the lincoln bedroom to commemorate the fact that it was lincolns office and it was the room that he signed the emancipation proclamation in. So the room itself is really a shrine, i think, to american history. Truman redid the room then in that renovation and it had never been refurbished since and really needed it. The carpet was the over 50 years old and so i have worked with the white house, a historical association, the Preservation Board who are furniture curators, art historians, wallpaper specialists, they are the real scholars. And the white house curator of course and we looked back at the wallpaper lincoln had in his office, at the carpet he had in his office, and we did reproductions of those. And then we had old photographs of the way Mary Todd Lincoln had draped the lincoln bed with the purple and gold and fringe and lace, really high victorian decorating and we did have later photographs, not contemporary with lincoln, but the bed, still dressed the way she had dressed it and so we did that again. How did the bushes use the white house as a social instrument during their years . How do they use it to advance policy . What was entertaining like while we had wars going on . Well i think that they had only really begun to entertain. The dinner for the mexican president was a few days before september 11th and it kind of backfired literally because they had fireworks and they hadnt really warned anybody that it was happening and so this sort of exploded all over the town. Everybody was sort of alarmed. And then after september 11th, i think there is a great deal of thought as to what was appropriate and how to do it. I think that certainly laura bush has been instrumental in seeing the white house as a living Historical Institution and using it as a way to help people understand what the lives have been like for people who lived there at the time and the way that it reflects the period and the way that it reflects the context of the time. I mean, the meticulous need to recreate what mary lincoln has done is really about also showing the tenor of those times and what was considered the right way to be. And i think that mostly themselves, you know, they would bring friends in and do that but, they favored smaller gatherings, certainly and not much, as she was right, he went to bed at 9 00 at night she was the one who might stay up late reading or prefer a little dancing, so. And we take a call from david in provo, utah. Hi, david. David hi, i was calling to ask about laura bushs influence on the politics or the democratic rights in burma. I know that she was really championing that towards the end of the second Bush Administration. Thanks so much. Either of you know . Well again, ive always found it really kind of curious and i wish i knew more about that. I havent really been able to understand exactly what moved her to do that. She really became quite outspoken. In a way i would argue that that is her most forceful and surprising role as a first lady, to wade into Foreign Policy in an area where the United States had been kind of, not all that engaged, in speaking out against the generals and all of that. So, shes been persistent and i think that continues to this day along with her interest in womens rights in afghanistan. I mean, she just recently appeared with secretary kerry and former secretary clinton, the three of them at the state department, to make this plea that as we pull out of afghanistan, we dont leave women behind. So, but the issue about burma is a fascinating one and i dont know very much about where thats come from. In that clip, laura bush mentioned the White House Historical association as this series winds down, i want to remind you that weve been watching along the way, the White House Historical association has been our partners throughout the series, helping us extensively with research and with photographs along the way. Weve also partnered with them in this biography bookm the special edition of it, the first ladies of the United States and many thousands of you have had a copy of that so you can learn more about the lives of the first ladies. Im cognizant of our time here and so as we leave her white house years i want to put on the record, some of a laura bushs accomplishments in office as we mentioned as the first, the first first lady to deliver the president s weekly radio address, the founder of the National Book festival which continues to this day, visited more than 75 countries during her eight years in the white house and renovated the lincoln bedroom, among those that we are highlighting. And in 2009, she became a private citizen again and how has she approached that aspect of her life . I think the bushes went very comfortably back into their private lives. I dont think that they missed the grandeur of the white house. I think theyve eased very, you know, very gracefully into private life. Theyve gone back to their lives in dallas. Mrs. Bush continues to be very much involved with the bush center, which i referenced earlier that includes the Bush Institute and the bush library. She was instrumental in the planning of the bush library and i think her touch can particularly be seen in the grounds surrounding it with its native grasses and native plants, something she has a great passion for. So i think she continues to lead a very full life, and as i mentioned earlier susan, continues to pursue some of the causes that were dear to her as first lady through the Bush Institute. It was the nice things about being first lady in a way too is that, so you think youll have just the brief period of time but your impact does continue and she actually has more room to continue to be involved in these policy initiatives, then certainly the former president does or would or has suggested he wants to, because he doesnt think its the right for a president to be criticizing another one, but she and mrs. Obama, for instance, have both been together in africa, have had a summit for first ladies of africa, theyve worked together on a number of things. Mrs. Clinton, and she and the secretary have carried on those things and she i think has been surprisingly and happily engaged in a way she thought she might not be. But we have in fact the clip of her trip to africa with the current first Lady Michelle obama, lets watch that next. Laura bush thats why were launching the First Ladies Initiative at the Bush Institute. We want to support first ladies around the world by convening them annually to highlight the significant role that they can play in addressing pressing issues in their countries. Michelle obama i constantly get asked, especially in the first term, are you more like laura bush or are you more like Hillary Clinton, and im like, is that it . Laura bush and reporters said, are you Hillary Clinton or barbara bush . Michelle obama right. Laura bush and i always just said well i think ill be laura bush, i knew laura bush pretty well having grown up as her in midland, texas. Mark, youve had the opportunity to host some of these Panel Session with the first ladies talking about the role and what you hear is the desire on the part of the public and the press to typecast and also the desire of the women in the role to be their own self despite all the enormous pressure to be something other than that. Would you comment on it . Last word, i think theyre always going to be compared to their predecessors in particular, are you going to be more a traditional first lady like a mamie eisenhower, an activist first lady like eleanor roosevelt, which one will you be and i think they all put their unique stamp on the role. Laura bush was no exception. We have read a couple of times from laura bushs memoir which is spoken from the heart. Youve talked along the way about what a guarded individual she was. When you read her memoir, do we learn any more about her, than you had known perhaps from all your reporting in your biography . Well, i was interested in hearing from her in her own words, what she wants to reveal about who she is and what she reveals about whats important. I think that one of the keys to understanding laura bush is that shes a reader and that that is a really integral part, and they, you know, the gentleman david i think who called from provo wanted to know about whether she was more empathetic. I think that she finds power in narrative and in story and in human story and thats what she responds to, thats what touches her, that is what compels her to act in many ways and i gathered from her a deeper understanding from that book of the meaning of the west texas land, the sound of the wind, the great giants of texas literature who have come before her, who she returns to again and again, edna ferber, i think that thats really a key to understanding who she is. Shes not a crusader, as much as she is a reader and that is what informs the way she moves through life in many ways. And what transported her from west texas. I mean she would she talks about the incongruity of being in west texas and reading plato, these classic writers and leaving midland through those pages, through those narratives. I think her book is exceptionally wellwritten. And what i was far more interested in the first part of it which is the story of her growing up in midland which she writes so poetically about than i was about her duties as first lady which will often get into, you know, one ceremony after the next. Its very difficult, i think, to write compellingly about ones tenure as first lady because again, it is so ceremonial in nature. Debbie is watching us from louisville. Hi debbie, youre on. Debbie hi susan. I want to thank you very much for this program. My question is we have many influential first ladies to go back through history. That could be Hillary Clinton, Michelle Obama or laura bush. What is the most important thing that you believe that laura bush have done for the american or for womens rights. And susan, of all the first ladies which ones bring more or that had impressed you the most . Oh, thanks. Im going to pass on that answer because ive been in this chair in the role of interviewer along the way. But did she make any advances for womens rights, the caller wants to know. I think that she i think that with all of these first ladies its really hard to judge them in almost the contemporary times in which we are in now. I would defer to my historian colleague here. I write about the now in many ways. I think its too soon for us to know exactly what kind of impact laura bush has had in terms of womens rights. I think that she has been a representative in her own way for rights in a way that is not as expected as someone who has crusaded i guess what im trying to say is, with what some people see is her more traditional mein to speak from that position on behalf of women who do not have opportunities. In some ways makes her more effective because its not quite expected. So almost as if shes championing it in a place that we wouldnt expect to hear it, perhaps. I think both the bushes take the long view of history. And actually laura bush talks about the fact that she admired her husband for taking a long view of history, and making difficult decisions during the course of his presidency that wouldnt necessarily manifest themselves in popularity, you know that and i think youre right, i think his presidency and how its reflected is very much in the balance well see what happens, he knows that. And i think most historians know that. And i think her contributions as first lady will be revealed as we begin to see the forest for the trees in the tenures of both of them in the white house. We have just a couple of minutes left. People have asked along the way, and i have been negligent in asking it on their behalf, since she is historically the only first lady to have had a motherinlaw who served in the role people are curious about the relationship between the two women. What can you tell them . Well i think that they have a Good Relationship and a strong relationship as best as i can tell. I wouldnt presume to say, you know, its exactly a marriage that i wouldnt presume to say, you know, exactly whats between a motherinlaw and her daughterinlaw. You know, she famously stepped to with barbara bush who has a large personality when she first came to kennebunkport. And barbara bush was said to say somewhat tartly, and you dear, what you do when they were all, the boys were all running around competing against each other and she said, i read, i smoke, and i admire. That was her way of saying, oh this is who i am. This is what im going to be doing and i may not fit some mold. I think that she respects very much her motherinlaws life. And i think that barbara bush for her part has been very grateful, said she was at the beginning for settling down her boy. And is steady and once said, you know, shes the one with the first lady potential. I think thats right, i know theres great mutual admiration i think between the two. Theyre very different women. But i think thats right, i think barbara bush saw in laura bush the qualities of a great a political partner or a great spouse for her husband as he embarked on a political career. The two daughters, jenna, is an nbc correspondent. She married, not in the white house even though her parents were still in office in 2008. And they gave george and laura bush their first grandchild. Barbara is a ceo of an Organization Called Global Health corps. And as we close here tonight, i want to say, thank you to our two guests for helping us understand more about the life and times and the still unfolding legacy of laura bush. Thanks to both of you for being here. Thank you too. And for taking our callers questions. Thank you. Throughout the evening. And were going to close with some thoughts about the members of the bush family, the president himself and the two daughters on their mother First Lady Laura Bush. Thanks for being with us. Laura bush well i dont want to steal barbaras. I feel like i always steal her answers. Do you want to go first . Laura bush crosstalk ok. You go first the next time. If you can go first the next. Thank you. Ok. So, i would say probably her work for women and all over, really, and we were so lucky because our parent took us on travels to africa and so we got to see pepfar being unrolled and being in clinics and schools, and meeting people whose lives would be forever changed. So i would say, her work for women as, you know, but more broadly probably pepfar and my dad too, im very proud of him for that. I think definitely echo that and also this was brought up before by anitabut i think after 9 11 mom played such a, im going to cry. Its all ok. I know. Its okay, all bushes cry. In front of people. I think her the work that she did after 9 11 and just how comforting she was to everyone in the country is an incredibly legacy and whats really critical to the country healing after 9 11. George w. Bush if i were doing a series on first ladies. I would be probing this question, could the first lady handle the pressure . Because if the answer is no, then the life of the president s gonna be pretty miserable. You know, laura was unbelievably calming and she was, you know, a pillar of strength in the midst of all the noise and, you know, fingerpointing and yelling and all the stuff that goes on in washington. And shes a great first lady, really great first lady