This is American History tv, exploring our paystub is exploring our history every weekend. That is the 70th anniversary of the korean war, on june 25, 1950. The korean war began 70 years ago on june 25, 1950. And ended about three years later in july of 1953. Up next, an interview with veteran carl house, recorded in by the korean15, war legacy foundation. He recounts his part in the inchon, it turning point in the war. And a battle in which he was captured. Am suffering as a prisoner of the chinese. The project was underwritten by south koreans patriots and veteran affairs. Carl, w house carl w house. When were you born . 8, 23, 31. Which makes me pretty close to 83. Interviewer you are in the group of young korean war veterans. Carl i have been told that many times. I have had difficulties with that because they always thought i was younger than i was, getting my disability. Interviewer you look too young. Carl and healthier than what i was. I had heart problems, surgery dad,times, my mother and my dad passed away when i was quite young. My dad1 years old when passed away. It was from the First World War wounds that took him, took his life. Me in a bad situation as far as the financial structure of our home. T made it hard for me it was hard to get established where we could really go to school like i wanted to. So i did not finish high school. I enlisted inason the service. I thought i would get to finish high school. Training,nished basic the korean war was going on. When did you join in the army . 3, 1950. Ch go toiewer where did you basic training . Carl fort knox. Interviewer kentucky. And what was your specialty . Carl infantry. Because i had just finished basic training, and right out of japan and tooko another month of training. Interviewer when did you leave for japan . Carl in july. My mother was in hospital for surgery. A delay in route. Be there for her when she got out of surgery. Also to give her a blood transfusion. I had the same type of blood. So that put me in japan probably about the last of july. Interviewer so you knew the korean war broke up i mean to japan. Carl right. Interviewer did you know anything about korea before . Carl no. I had never heard of it until they fit i finished basic training and they gave me orders. Interviewer what did they say about korea . Goingin my orders, i was to japan, and it was after i got wasapan that they told me i going on to korea. And there was not anything said made. The landing we there was not anything said about that until we got on the ship to go there. The first marines and it has been so long, a lot of things i have tried, and this will be hard for me because i try to forget a lot of the things. For many years, i cannot remember everything in detail. Interviewer did you try to forget . Carl oh yes. Instead of going to bars and staying drunk, which i had a tendency to want to do, and a found i couldd, i get occupied in some kind of job or something of interest to me, and i became a workaholic. That is how i was able to do that to forget a lot of those things. Do you remember when you left korea for japan . Well, i made the beachhead in korea on the 15th of september. Beachhead that is how i got to korea. To from japan straight to inchon. There was a beachhead. We came in on the beach. Interviewer was it 916 or 915 . Carl 915. I have read a lot of history about this. We made our beachhead in september. That was the first each head that was made. Went in, i do not remember the town but about halfway in, then we went back boat, and theyhe took us around and they made another beachhead. So we made two beachheads. That, we shut the enemy i do not know if it has been recorded or not, but the korean war was supposed to be officially over just before we crossed the river. We had run into the chinese and and that issome when they pulled us back for thanksgiving dinner and the war was supposed to be over and we were supposed to come back to the united states. I do not think i have seen a record of that. So how was the situation when you landed in inchon . Was there any resistance . Carl not a lot. Right as sitting that beach all night before we went in in the morning. Our occupation was not very bad at all. We went pretty easy. Interviewer where did you go . We went on into soul i was looking at some of the literature and it was unbelievable. All i ever had been when i was there, they turned around the tanks and the guns around backwards and drove down through the buildings and flatten them out. The reason to do that is because the enemy would go in there if you left any of them, but by doing that, they would notify civilians. Youd get out and they would just level the town. Was nothing. There there would not be anything. Interviewer any skirmish around the soul city . Seoul city . Carl very little. Interviewer what division . Carl seventh division. 31st infantry. How did you feel when you entered into seoul . Really, when you are young man as i was at the time, all of it was quite a new experience for me. Somehow, i just knew we had a and it was not mething that really bothered or anything. We just knew we had a job to do and we went in and took care of it. There was not anything there. The only thing that stood out to theith was really bad, first night in, we had some south korean soldiers with us. So we had difficulties a lot of times communicating. Our language was just broken. Sign language more than anything. Firstst night in my foxhole i spent with a north korean because we could not tell them apart. I did not know that. Interviewer you were in the same foxhole . Carl yes. He was a spy. The south korean in the next enough that het found out that he was. He called in some other soldiers and they got him over to the side and had a little interview of their own. Interviewer you might have been killed. Carl right. I was really shocked when i found out. I had another south korean that came in with me and he explained to me what happened. I had no idea but the south korean soldiers took care of him. Where he went or what happened to him, i do not really know. It kind of got to you, when i realized i could not tell them apart, they all looked the same and so i had no idea. The soldier next to us, i do not know exact the but they talked back and forth and he found he was north korean. Interviewer did you see Korean People around the city . Carl occasionally, yes. It was terrible. Them their homes were destroyed, they were trying to live on whatever they could find. It was a terrible thing. Is for anyplace. It always is. Think one of the hardest things, at first, when i got to did not like it because i thought, why am i way over in this country. Exactly. Er why . Carl and i was not expecting that. I thought i would finish my education and that is what i went into service for. I found that the main thing i theand therefore, that is first thing you take care of. There, i wasver pretty upset and i got to thinking about, every once in a while, i got myself into a terrible situation and i thought, man, i do not know whether this is the right thing or not to be over here fighting a war that i did not really understand that much about at that time. But we what really opened my eyes was just shortly after that, they put us up on a mountain. That enemy was trying to knock our planes out. Area . Iewer seoul carl i think it might have been. It is hard for me to remember exactly where it was. But i remember our squad had forrs to keep an eye out this airport so the enemy could. Ot follow our planes so while i was up on the in to the enemy in the process of all of it, the , we took care of some of them and then we got to find some civilian girls, that they had done some terrible things to and had murdered. That really opened my eyes at that time i guess it was the eyeopener of it that really made me realize it was a necessary thing to be there. My mind goes back to that because i thought when that happened, i would rather be hereing the enemy over than i would in my backyard and see my sisters and family in this kind of predicament. I realized how serious it really wasnt that take your time when i had seen all this and analyzed it. Eyes. Lly opened my i did not mind eating there. That is a very eyeopening statement. Thank you for being honest. That why should i had . Here in a country you had never heard of. Carl a young man, 18 years old, i was planning on finishing my education and wound up taking beachhead training, which was pretty strenuous. That took quite a bit of training to get ready. It was unknown. When wewould be facing went down that ship and everything to go in. Where did you go from there . Seoul to where . Then went south and , youviewer from seoul . Ent down ok. Carl some of the soldiers we moved in at the end of korea about halfway in, i am guessing, and thatwe went south was back on the ship and rent went around and came back in and regrouped with troops and we had them shut off. That was before thanksgiving when that all happened. What did you see n you landed in carl i give a lot of credit to general macarthur. I know a lot of people did not like him. I heardt he was several things about him. But i thought a lot of him. Had itt believe we have general like him since. Time, we were told he was a man who liked to fight wars. Maybe he did but he knew what he was doing. I gave him credit for that. But it is like i asked him, i said i do not think we have ever won a war since they took him out. How was carl the planes would hit those beaches. Endsst picked up odds and of what was left. The first marines would usually hit the beach. Wasid not really know what going on but they moved pretty fast and there was not that much left. Interviewer did you go off to jhangjin reservoir . How are you captured . And where . Before, they had pulled us back and that is when i had the river just before thanksgiving. They stopped us, pulled us back. You landed in san and then went carl i went across the river. I was a front man when we crossed that river. Interviewer that is in the northwest. To yaluent from wonsan river. Do you remember the month you landed in wonsan . In september,d probably october. Interviewer then you went up to yalu river . Carl right. Don young py ongyang. They told us we had some problems at the front. We traveled, i would say from daylight that morning to apps or after sundown that night. E got to jhangjin reservoir so whatever distance that was during that time was the little town we stayed in. I am not sure what that town was. We landed, when they unloaded us out of the trucks, we were at the jhangjin reservoir reservoir. I do not know who made the mistake, but when they got out of the trucks that night, they told us not to worry about anything. We could have coffee if we wanted it. There was no enemy around for at least 15 miles. The plane had checked the area all over. Nothing around to worry about. That night before i crawled in my sleeping bag, i looked around at that Mountain Side and it looks like a small city with all the little fires around people making coffee and visiting. Morning, thee next chinese opened up and what we did was move right up in a horseshoe circle. We just put right up in the middle of it and they just closed it kind us. We far them for three days. Morning, for some reason, i knew it was necessary to get back to the artillery, which was down in the valley. I had in mind if we could get back to that, and we fought way back down into that valley, and the chinese was all over us. It was difficult. In the earlynow, morning hours, who was and who was not the enemy. Mangled, they was all mangled in with us. They killed a lot of our boys in their sleeping bags that morning. Down toed to get back where the all where the artillery where the artillery was, and i asked them if they 105s, and borrow one guy said yes, i can, and i said we better get going. There were just a source of swarms of them. See them coming. He knew what he was talking about. You put those shells when they are where they needed to be. There is no telling how many we killed. That day, those big shells would hit and it seemed like it would make a big hole in the group but they just close it back up and keep coming. That went on for three days. We fought them there before we run out of ammo. Us and missed. O it fell into the enemy over the mountain, but we did not get it. The next morning, they said, well, we are going to have to try to get out of here and get back. Morning, i looked up and seen everybody headed down the back trying to get out of there, and i asked what was going on and they said it is every man for himself. We are about out of ammo. So i started trying to get back and i run into the cabin and he was standing there as i got back down there. He said you are rearguard. Up ald me my group was set , we can move back. Hit. Is when i got shot through my left arm. So i was really caught up for , they were the day playing around, a lot of guys got killed. Whaticked up and could do i did what i could. I run all day that way and i had one friend of mine and in this interview, i wish i could find out what happened to him. Howard. Power howard. Carl that is all i can remember about his name. He was my squad leader just before i was captured. They had us down where just he and i was the only two left. We were behind an embankment probably about five foot or Something Like that high. Close gotten some clothes to us. One hit just down below me and i thought that was the end of the line but it did not, the concussion went away instead of to me. Then he said, we had a Little Valley that we needed across to get out of there. He said if you could get across that valley and hold a line of fire until i can get to you, and he said since you are hit, you had better go ahead and i will try to get to you. I said all right. I started to cross this little level,and it was fairly i am sure, when i started across, not realizing all day that i had been bleeding in my arm was broken. Pocket. Ut my head in my that is all i ever got. I had a lot of trouble with it through my prison. It seemed like i was running up and down the hills. I was passing out, i lost so much light and was getting pretty well out of it and i failed. Was the lasthat time i had seen my buddy. Howard. I do not know what happened to him. Or if he got killed. But he was a sly fellow. But i never saw him after that. For just a few minutes, i was out. When i came to, i could hear the feet. The chinese were running and i thought, well, if i could lay still, maybe they will go on by me and i can get up and go. So i did try to do that but at 30 below zero, i could not hold my breath for very long. Theyi had to breathe, could see pretty well that i was not dead. I got a bayonet in my back and told to get up and at that point on, i was a pow and there was nothing i could do about it. Do you remember the day you were captured . Carl november 30. So how did thew, chinese treat you . Carl well, that has been a question i have been asking i dont know how many times. A lot of them said, did they torture you . I have always said, is it torture to have a broken arm and never have no kind of medical attention at all and at 30 below zero, to be put into a little andwhere you have no heat you are suffering and not enough water to drink . These are simple things that would have helped, you know, when youre sick, plus, kinds that well dealt with, and then, through while you are trying to get some rest even though you are hurting, to have your buddy next to you, he is in the process of dying from being wounded, and he grabs your broken arm and does not know it and youre going through that kind of thing, if you had just a little more room to keep from that going on, there are several things like that that could have haveprevented, which would been very simple, and none of them we were able to get. As, i think at it it was deliberate for things were done the way they were. Isnt hard to realize that when you are going through it. To see a man cry all might long just for a drink of water. Interviewer what made you get through the ordeal . Carl the good lord. Interviewer you are a christian. Carl yes. Interviewer were you a believer at the time . Carl i was a christian but a lazy christian. Lets put it that way. I had not really been in the word. I found later that i really been, therehad i were a lot of things i could have done better that would have been a lot better for me. But that is the key thing. I was sureher that was one of the reasons i had seen a lot of the things i had i did. Like when i was shot through my left arm, i was firing my rifle. Of myt in on this side arm and came out over here, i can show you the scars where they came out. It was a right in line with my heart, but that bullet did not come through that coat sleeve. So say what you want, but i know it took care of it. There are many other things i see that way. You goewer so where did from there . What camp did you go . Well, we were probably on the march off and on from the day i got captured. Night after it was captured, they marched us all night long. Do, they took us probably five miles, some like that, and put us in a little building. It was kind of a holding area. There were only three of us. What they were doing was collecting others. In that theythers had captured because all night, they would let us rest maybe 15 minutes or so and take us back out. We thought we were going somewhere but they would go out and what they were doing was keeping us tired down so we would not do nothing. I figured out later but at the time, i was not aware of what was going on. Anyway, they would bring us back to the same area until they finally got like six or seven of us together. The next morning, they took us and then theyr let us rest for a little while, and then we went on back further. That was through and we did not make very good time. But they would keep trying to get us back from the lines but we would hear the fire. Interviewer where did you go . Carl back to the valley. We spent the winter in this valley. I never did know what valley was. But i called it death valley because they said i had nothing to verify this but they said it was 1600 prisoners who died there that winter. A dairy or upd around a hill, a big hole, and there was a lot of bodies in there. You would get a detail and have to put a body in there. You everer were brought to any camp . Carl in the spring, they took me on back. They started in february and it campay, going back to five. From may until, i believe it was the next year, they took us on back on a boat untilat is where i stayed i was released. Interviewer tell me about life at the camp. Well, we just had a small us nd they always had interviewer how many a room . Carl 10 or 12, somewhere in there. It varied depending on the room. So many could lay at one then one end of the room, would lay at the floor and it would be, you know, just that close together. Never had heat and it would give us enough to go through the night. We were stronger and healthier through the first two winters. I believe that is what pulled us through and that kind of weather. It was goodg year, they let us because we lost so i when iand when theye lost so much weight, had started giving us a little bit of food just before they released us when they found out they was gonna release us, they started giving us a little more food. Interviewer what was the most difficult thing during your camp . Carl food. Food todid not have any speak up speak of. Seemingly what was swept up off we had rocks,use droppings, and all kind of stuff in this rice that we would get. A lot of guys just could not eat it. Give up and die. That is why we lost a lot of men we did. 24 7, when you go to sleep ofnight, you would dream birthday dinners and anniversaries and all of those things, you would wake up in the night thinking about that food that you had enjoyed before u. S. Captured. Was captured. Also, all of the time i was a up. My arm would heal it was never in a cast. Sling. Ctually in a i just put it inside of my pocket on my coat and i carried that arm that way. Interviewer it naturally healed . Carl yes. Me, blood poisoning and a number of other things that couldve happened, but pieces of bone worked out of that arm all through the time i was a prisoner of war. , in about fourp months, it was start swelling, my arm would. Enoughd swell up big that it would bust open and two, for another month or then it would heal back up. Maybe a piece of bone would work out. Time int on all of the was a pow. Bert, inriend of mine, the same room i was in, and he had taken a piece of shrapnel in and it had busted up his shoulder pretty bad, and he was in the same predicament i was. What was amazing, my arm would heal up and i would be able to use my arm. His shoulder would be, we took terms turns. My arm would swell up and bust open and bust open in his would be healed. When mine would heal up, his would bust open. We could not get over that. It seemed like the way it was all the way through. You complain,ould why are these horrible things happening to me and my friend . Carl not really. One of the things you do when in this kind of position, there are some things that are on your mind like, you think, you always have hopes that they will come in and get you out, or you will find a way to get out. Be the main thing i concentrated on almost all of the time i was in there. Interviewer you had that hope. You would be rescued. Carl or that we would find a way to get out of there. It, i had twoof friends of mine. And this got to be a problem. Things they would give the men, get us to the point where we did not really know what and you could really trust. Where down to the point you have got good and solid friends, you stay close. So you could trust in there was three of us. Bert does not usually come to the the conventions. We got to be close friends. Got a dollar bill he managed to hold onto. He thought, we sit around and visit, you have got to have something to work on. We sat around and talk about possibilities, that maybe you could get out. It was not athat problem to break out of the camp. You could do that fairly easily. They do not let you travel almost just by road or water. Most everybody that would get out would not go very far and then get recaptured. The main problem was they could hide out for a short time but as they had to have food and whenever there was a place to get food, they always got caught. Thing i was amazed with. Need it seemed like the way villages were laid out, they could holler and it would travel down the valley. That is the way they communicated in emergencies. You, it was a matter of time. There would be a lot of them there. Anyway, we realize that one problem was when the men did get out, they could they could not go very far. Was,cided as hard as it they would save enough rations so when we got out, we could stay out and get further away, and we thought we might get a chance to go. We saved up enough rations, we thought it would last us about four days. We had pulled the ceiling down in that house and had it hidden they carryknow how the rice in the role and that is the way. Interviewer so you would hide food. Where did you get it . Carl , something that nature you ld take apart, interviewer where did you get the food from . Carl we just saved it. We decided to take a little out of our rations as we got them. It took quite a while to do that. Interviewer the rations you got from the chinese. Ok. Carl this. Not very much, but we did hungrycause, you was 24 7. Hard to do. But we did. After we saved all those rations, and we are thinking about trying to make a break and get out, i would say probably about three days before we were getting ready to leave, they would do this occasionally. I think they knew different guys would do that. And then they would change goldings on you. We were really concerned about it in that is when we found out that something was going on they found our rations. We seen them when they took the rations out. They knew it was some of us in the group. They were tortured everybody in the group until they found out who it was. We figured we would have to tell. To our surprise, they took the rations out of there and did not do anything. Interviewer when were you released . Carl it would have been probably the 20 for the baucus. I was in the first group because my arm was swollen and it was raining again. The second group that was released. After, about the last of august. I came across the line in september. Interviewer when did you cross the line . Carl about the first of september but i do not remember just what day it was. So august when he five come you left. And what were you thinking . Well, did not want to get too carried away because we did not know for sure, we did not know whether we was going to get out or not. Interviewer skeptical. Carl right. I was. I did not want to get my hopes too high because if we get up close and they decide you do not they do not want you to go yet, you know, so i did not want to really get too carried away with that idea until we crossed that line. Not until i knew i was on the other side. Interviewer what was the first thing you ate . Carl i scream. Interviewer have you been to korea since . Do you know what happened to korea . What do you think . Up a parallel. I really do not know why. I heard some things. In fact, i was offered the korea and waso informed they would fly us over if we wanted to go. Back. Never went i somehow was because just did not want to go. Interviewer too much. Carl everything, i just did not want to go. Korea was able to accomplish simultaneous economic development, so speedy, fast catch up, and democratization in asia, one of the most democratic countries in asia. To the lateom 1960 1980s. We were able to do it because you fight for us. Carl you know, i will say one thing about south korea. With the southce korean soldiers, they were very determined people and very to go through the many difficulties they were going through. Strong andeally showed a lot of strength and how they lived and survived with all the difficulties. It was remarkable. 82, right . i hope you change your mind and go back to korea where you fought, the country you never knew before. You will see what you did for this nation. Wife of carl w house. Interviewer when did you marry . 1973. Had he told you about his awful experience in the prison camp . A whole lot. He does not talk about it a lot. To remembert want it, really. Interviewer but you know some of it. Yes. I have heard him speak about some of it. Interviewer what do you feel that you live with a man who went through such an unbelievable ordeal . What do you feel . How do you put that into perspective that you are living with this man that nobody will be able to imagine . It is difficult, because it does affect the soldier all of their life, you know, and having not what exactly you went through, it is difficult to really understand it. Does he have ptsd, nightmares or things like that . He has had, yes. Not maybe as much as you would that. , but he does have how do you handle those problems . You do a lot of praying. Would you like to leave any message to this interview, anything that you think you missed but wanted to be heard . There is one thing i will say this, you know, you have always heard of people falling through the cracks . , i think thatck is the way you would put it. I wasnt too proud of the way they did treat the gis when they came back. It was supposed to be a police action, which was far from it. There wasnt anything said about still, yett all, and today, the vietnam war lasted but all of the vietnam people came back and that is all you heard about. Thank you very much, again. Both of you. Thank you. Announcer that oral history interview was provided to cspan by the korean war legacy foundation. For more information about their archives with hundreds of interviews with war veterans, video clips and photos, you can visit their website at koreanwar legacy. Org. This is American History tv. Exploring our nations past every weekend on cspan3. Author Jia Lynn Yang discusses her book one mighty and irresistible tide. It looks at the evolution of u. S. Policy since the immigration act of 1924. Economic andthe moral debates leading up to the passage of the law and how those factors influenced immigration legislation throughout the