Transcripts For CSPAN3 First Ladies Influence Image - Bess Truman 20240712

Letters and spent a good part of her white house years home in missouri. She was first lady on her own terms. Good evening and welcome to our continuing series. Tonight the story of the wife of the 33rd first lady, bess truman. Coming out on november 12th, a little fun for you there, nicole is a history professor called the coming of the cold war. Releft off on the death, where is he, he gets the message that he is needed. She havi he was having a dri. He thought a lot of politics was accomplished by relaxes and having a more kcorgile atmosphere. Mr. Truman was out, and it wasnt a surprise to anyone in the white house as all. They knew roosevelt was going. But no one expected so quickly. I think it was an issue of when. He looked horl. It was the last campaign and he spoke to the Congress Sitting down and he was ashen. And his inaugural address for the fourth term had to be coming from the white house. He was stood up on the north porch. And the audience was out front and it was not really a surprise to anyone. Two hours later, in the cabinet room in the white house. How surprised was the nation. They knew he was the Vice President , they knew his name, he was a very admired senator within washington. So even his own mother was nervous for him. And what about bess truman. She was there with him, i guess in the apartment, i dont know. So as nicole says, it was in washington that he was well known, but he was not household but roosevelt had been there for 13 years. And the very idea of his declining, most people didnt really understand that he could not walk. Right, he dhaept very well h hidden. Roosevelt had been in the white house for 13 years. How does that transition happen there . It was furniture that was taken out of roosevelt. Because of his condition and mr. Roosevelts nature as you saw. They liked to take me back all of the time. They had tables in front of things. Rereached over thousands of things, pictures, all sorts of things and imagine what the truman space, they went in with squairs on t squares on the wall, and the transition was they had a little apartment in town and they took the piano from from it. Did they go immediately to the white house . Well the trumans thought they could stay in their apartment until they moved into the white house. They offered mrs. Roosevelt as much time as she needed, and it took about two weeks. They were living in blair house. As Eleanor Roosevelt watched them pack up the last of her belongings, she went to say goodbye to the trumans and she warned bess to watch out for the rats. One of her female friends and her had seen a rat run across t theba balcony recently. She was roped into the job of first lady. Did she have any guidance from the outgoing first lady . Her first problem was that Eleanor Roosevelt had, probably meaning well, set up a press conference for bess. She established a tradition of press conferences, and she said do i have to do that . And she said she could do what she wanted and she decided it was something that she would not do it. The oldtime white house social secretary twlent with mrs. Woodrow wilson, the second, right . And she stayed through, and they had a limb seen from every day and she knew everything to do. She knew where the bodies were buries, she knew everything and she handled the press conference. The other thing we should establish is that the trumans got support from each other. They were a partnership, 100 . Harry, bess, and margaret. Now can you talk a little about what you know about how that entered things with each other and how they worked together . They read a lot, they enjoyed being together, and margaret and the president were musical. And so they liked to reason to records and stuff like that the same way the carters did. Just intimate, personal, upstairs. Thats how they lived. Were going to, as we do in n this program, were going to look at her biography. Let me tell you about how to be involved. You know one of the things about the series that makes is special and interesting is your comments. You can dial in with a question or a comment. You can tweet us firstladies, and we have a conversation on the cspan facebook page. We will try to work in as many of those as we can. Thank you for your participation and Great Questions today. Two good guests at the table. One thing you should know is their house was in independence, missouri. How far away from that is a major city . Ten miles from kansas city. It is a national site. It has been closed to cameras for 30 years, but the park service wias willing to open it up for this series, and throughout the program you will see some touring given by mr. Daniel that helps us understand the people that his grandparents were. Lets begin with a tour in the home of independence. Were on the back porch of my grandparents home in independence, missouri. This is the way we came in, family, through the kitchen door. Came into the kitchen and the first place i always headed was back here to the pantry. I dont see the tin, but there was always a tin in here on one of the shelves filled with brownies. And i always made sure that tin was in here before i went anywhere else in the house. The next stop had to by my grandfathers study because when you came into the house, he didnt meet us at the airport as he got older. You had to stop here and say high to grandpa. He was getting older and if i wanted to talk to him, that is where i looked. And my grandmother and my mother at in those chairs to read with him. Apparently my grandmother and mother would start fights. My grandfather would look up and try to decide whether or not the fight was escalating to the point that he needed to get out of the room. If it was okay he would read down and check again. Sometimes he left and sometimes he stayed. This is a formal dining room. This is where we ate the evening meal every day. This is where we ate all of our formal meals, in this dining room. My mother sat at that end of the table, closest to the kitchen, i think. So if we go through here, were in the center of the house in the foyer, and you will notice that the biggest portrait in the house is of my late mother, Margaret Truman. My grandmother was 39 when she was born, she was very precious to my grandparents and they were very close Little Family unit. My grandfather kind of spoils her. My grandmother was more the disciplinarian, but they were very, very tight as a family. She was an only child. After my grandfather passed away, this is where she would often sit. She loved murder mysteries. An instack of what she had not read, and an out stack. But this is where she would be, and mom became a mystery writer. You see the house in independence, the house they lived in throughout their modern life. I dont know bess remembers it, but harry spoke of the girl with the beautiful blue yieeyesd one golden curl. Farce we know he never looked at not woman. It was a lifelong love affair and they had a very different lifestyle and background. Can you tell us about the Wallace Family . Her family owned a store in town and they manufactured flour. Queen of the pantry flour, and they were considered more upscale than the trumans, but some of the land they farmed was mrs. Wallaces, besss mother. So there was that difference. And that difference surfaced all during their lives. In what ways . Let me read you this letter, written while he was president. And he is writing to bess. 30 years i hoped to make you a happy wife and a happy mother. Did i . I dont know. All i can say is that i tried. There is no one in the world anyway who could look down on you or your daughter. There is no one in the world that could look down on you or your daughter. That means much to me. I have never cared for social position and rank for myself. Except that those dear to me were not made to suffer for my shortcomin shortcomings. It is almost an apology. Never felt good enough . I think part of that is keep in mind even when he writes the letter, his mother is still living with them. They never have their own marital home and her mother lives in blair house a lot of the time they never really thought well of her. He never said a negative world. He wrote a lovely piece. He said i dont understand motherinlaw jokes because i have had a great one. They make arrangements for us to return to independence. Were going to learn a little more in their eyes, the stories of harry and beth. When my grandfather visited, 26 miles from where he visited, he stayed across the street at the nolan house where his aunt and two cousins lived. He was over there one day with his family and his aunt brought in a cake flat plate that my great aunt gave her a plate, she cleaned the plate, and asked if anyone would take it back over. And my grandfather moved with the speed of light, grabbed the plate, ran over here and hoped that my grandhomother would ansr the door and she did. That was the beginning of their formal courtship. They first net sunday school when my grandmother was five and my grandfather was six. They were baptists. They were baptist but the Presbyterian Church down the street here had a very good sunday school. And thats what my great grandmother truman was most interested in. She took my grandfather over and as they were talking sunday school was in session. And as she was talking but he noel noticed a little girl with beautiful blue eyes and long golden curls. As far as i know, as far as anyone knows, he never looked at another woman. There is the story of the other woman. The other thing that is interesting is the courtship lasted many years. He had businesses, he went off to war, how long did it tame before they got married. He first unofficially proposed in about 1913 after their courtship starts in 1910 and she didnt write him a better back but after he said if i bought a ring would you wear it on your left hand, they keep courting, and they get close a formal engagement and world war i intervenes. It meant everything to him, and i think they wanted to realize that to see how he ran the presidency, he was a no nonsense organized man, roosevelt was not. But if things ran this way he got things in shape, he stayed in the reserve. He enjoyed the company of men. While he was president , he wasnt to masonic events. He retained the interest in the military and military people. The profound effect on his life. Were going to bring in gary, youre living in their hometown, how has that informed your opinion of them. Very highly of truman. I live just a couple doors down from him. So everywhere we look we see truman and the more and the more the years go by, i think the American Public would like to see someone like truman back in the white house, we really appreciate him as well here. Do you a question for our guests . I do i know bess had a very low profile, but how did the press respond to her, especially with el noor. First of all, i take the first part of your question. At first they were clambering to get more information, they were very aggressive, calling her secretaries, asking where she was going to go, it is not that she would not speak to them, she would invite the newspaper women, she would invite them over for things like teas or go to their luncheons, but she would insist on it all being off of the world. They understood that she wasnt trying to do this out of spite. She was just a private person and wished for a private family life. I want to wait for the other question until we get a little further into the story, so how about the early years. When he came back did he get in the private sector. He runs a store for awhile with his friend eddie jacobson. And thats where he gets into some debt which he insisted on paying it off, and he does eventually. He is involved in the family farm, he is trying to do all of these things to make himself more and he does become interested in public life at that time. And he was living in a house with mrs. Wallace. Not just mrs. Wallace, but her brothers and their wives as well. Mr. Wallace committed suicide when bess was 18 and it was a huge scandal. A big stigma on the family. This is why bess wants to keep her life private. She wanted to shield her father and mother. It was terrible for everyone. She left right after the funeral for colorado. Then she came back and moved into the house with her mother and the children. How are you doing this evening . Good, thank you. I was thinking of a few comments. I think you were talking about the suicide of besss father in 1903, and it made me think about why her partnership with harry truman, it seemed like an equal partnership, which was surely uninitial that day and time, and i think the reason why is because she realized her parents marriage had something lacking and i think i remember margaret saying she went back in forth with her over the areas and that was part of the reason she had a close partnership. I dont know if you discussed this or not, but i know they hosted the first inaugural ball in 1949, and i was just curious about, we were talking about womens rights, fribs, and bess and what she thought about femini feminism. In the 80s she was sent an article and if she would have been for the e. R. A. And also rights for black people. I know her husband often used derogatory firms, but he really set the course for modern Civil Rights Movement in 1948. How about her views of feminism . That certainly she would not have called herself a feminist, but she believed her marriage was a partnership. She once said a politicians wifes job was to sit there, be quiet, and make sure her hat was on straight, but she would have given him what they called the kickens if he didnt consult her on a big issue. It seems to me he wanted to be roosevelts running mate. She didnt like being the first lady. I would not say that harry did what he wanted. It was a partnership, dont think it was anything new that time, it goes back forever and ever and ever. Yeah, this is part of what marriage is all about. And mrs. Truman grew up in 1903 her father died, and she was part of the movement and she was obviously in there and it was different layers of feminism. One of her best friends was a well phone feel journalist, and she was very supportive of margaret having a career. Do you know how she get the nickname the boss . Harry started to call near because she was very organized with his Senate Office. She didnt mind the nickname until he introduced her as the boss and margaret as the bosss boss. She thought that people would think that march cigarette spoiled. There was a controversy whn n she was working because they paid her a salary. Bess did the work. People were just trying to stir up problems and they knew that people would try to stir up problems, but it was an okay thing to do. So on their first time in the white house, bess said to the media you dont need to know who i am because im not the president. We have one of the very few pieces of film of bess, as first lady, and this is a pretty famous one. Were going to slow downright now. The christening of an airplane at National Airport which is also interesting to see. It is interesting to see how open it was at the time. The event didnt go as planned. It gives me great pleasure to christen these two airplanes who has made possible. And tharzer rants of mercy we send with them our love and the desire, the comfort, and the sol lis. And let them know that were firmly behind them where ever they are. Ready to be christened by mrs. Harry s truman. The champagne bottle has not been properly prepare and to break the glass on impact. Now mrs. Truman unaware that her bottle is not prepared she seems to be rattled and she joins in the crowds laughter. But to the navy, forewarned is forearmed. Watch it just under the airplanes nose. And the hammer misses on the first try. Alls well that ends well. Despite the stubborn bottle, she sends off the hospital plane with her blessing. Her speech was charming. But it did, can it did encourage her. Slouttly. She doesnt want people to laugh at her. But she was no cultural backwater for washington. She had been in washington as a senators wife. And up at the white house, she knew exactly what to do and that bears a discussion, too. Next is a call for susan. Bu. Caller i just wanted to mention that i enjoyed the serious greatly. It is the best thing on television. Another thing i was a few years ago i read a bhook by Margaret Truman about bess. In the book it had a lot of the letters and so foresth. Are those still put together, compiled in a book, or anything like that or what other information that we could read about bess, harry, and margaret. The book called dear bess. Theyre letters from the president to mrs. Truman. No, this was written my margaret, it was like a diary. It was very informative because before that before i read that i did not ever see anything in a library or anything about bess truman. There is a lot of scholarly work on bess. There is works by margaret, her grandson who compiled some letters, but we use those letters in the Truman Library, in independence, and any book you read on harry truman will use them as a reference. She burned them. Truman came upon her, and he said dont do that, think of history. And she said i am. Mrs. Washington, mrs. Harding, and mrs. Truman are the three first ladies to burn their letters. Were fortunate that she didnt burn the letters from harry. She didnt want her words recorded. On that note, how did the bess and harry dynamic inform his presidency. Greatly. He asked her before he did pretty much anything. There is a little controversy on whether or not he consulted her about dropping the atopic bomb and the story has it from some sources that he didnt consult bess about that. But he consulted her about everything else. You can see that he was home in missouri, and he he didnt function with as much vigor when she was gone. I dont know it was such a scary thing. Even roosevelt trembled at the thought. Can you think of other first ladies that spent so much time away from the white house . No, i cant. Washington had a season. Thee there was from december to spring, or lent season in washington. Whether you five or four official white house dinners. We had a question earlier about how harry truman might have felt about his wifes aversion. And i found one answer to that. And i wanted to read a little about that into this and the reaction. He writes that harry was becoming frustrated with besss refusal to play a public role. He was perhaps the first to take an interest in the first libs history. He later wrote i hope some day someone will take time to evaluate the true role of the wife of the president and to assess the many burdens that she has to bear. Attempting to coax her into an active role he said the president told me that mrs. R was very timid and would not make any speeches when he first ran. And it didnt work. Im not the one elected, she snapped, i have nothing to say to the public. Asked which predecessor she most identified with, she chose elizabeth monroe. Do you have anything to ad to that . Do you disagree . No, i dont at all. I looked at that letter myself the other day because harry was strongly hinting he would like her to be a little more involved and she put her foot down. Its not that she didnt want to be involved in his life or decisions, just not publicly. She did what she had to do. The parties, the receptions for the hill tear, but the extras, she hat a column, and she went going to do that that was her life, maybe she was more so than any of us. A different take from Margaret Truman, and she wrote more and more, she started to feel that the presidency vir truly s truly dissolved. She explained that when harry was in the senate he had time to come home in the evening and talk things out and they could discuss is over their old fashioned. When when you become president the decisions multiply rapidly. He didnt have time to consult her on every little thing. She was frustrated at first. She came around. Harry truman had a lot of momentum things to discuss. We have just a few of the highlights of his first term and the white house including, of course, the dropping of the atomic bomb, the end of world war two, the cia being accomplished. Israel being recognized. The integration of the military and the marshall plan. All of the Big Decisions heed that to perform. There is a little dispute about that. I dont think he probably had time to. We think she knew about the reuation, but whether or not he had time to get in touch with her before giving the order, probably not. Hes not home. He was over meeting with stalin across the world. Just another example of those of those letters. You talked about how lonely he informs 1945. Here is some of what he wrote. It made me terribly homesick when i talked with you yesterday morning. Stalin and molotov are coming to talk to me. Lots of love to you. What do we learn about truman from that . A little bit of naivety. He informs in april. He drops the bomb in august. So it was a few months, but he still, you know, he says to her later that he is trying to get the departments in order tore get them still weeding out the people he doesnt want. And then he will sit down and tell them what he wants done. I think that is one thing it tells us. I like him. He doesnt spend two pages going on and on. This is a shorter letter, but it is an important defense and he misses her. I want to answer one question on twitter. Why do they not open the truman house to the public . You can, it has not been open to Television Cameras for preservation purposes for that amount of time. You can go if you want to visit it, but we have permission to bring cameras in for the first time in a long time. We appreciate their help with that. Early on, i have two different folks on facebook who are asking about the truman and their attitudes and their relationship. This says asking about whether or not he integrated the military and later on a fewer writes and suggests that there is several books about the truma trumans. She had an issue really early on for an invitation to an event that involved an africanamerican congressman. And with that as our launching pad, tell us what you have been lead to believe . Congressman powell was upset because the daughters of the American Revolution invited bess to tea and they would not let africanamerican musicians perform in Constitution Hall. So they thought she should refuse to an organization that had that policy. Bess truman said i ternly dont approve. I dont believe that should be in their hearts at all, but we cannot stop a private organization from making their own policies. I accepted the invitation im not going to back out now. So she went and they called her the last lady of the land which did not go over well with the president. The whole thing must have infurruated the president. Maryann anderson, the singer, the same thing happened with Constitution Hall would not take her. But they would not earn so it was performed at the lincoln memorial. The trumans knew that. I think the answer was to get the nuewspaper against the true mans. He never allowed powell in the white house again. That was one incident, what about their averager record on race relations. First you have to put if in context of their time and where they grew up and understand that many people will talk about how truman used drog tire terms in his letters, and that is absolutely true and this is not okay, but thats how people spoke at the time. Harry truman did a remarkable job separating his public and private sphere. He said he didnt want margaret to marry an africanamerican man, but he desegragates the military. It is a pretty poor showing for his action, but i think for that era, on your last showing, she referred to the japanese as japs, my japanese friends dont like that term, but she did. During the war no one thought anything of it. The emperor did, when he heard it, but thats the way people talked. On this note, Archie Jackson says did bess have anything to do with harry integrating the military . I dont think that she was probably pushing him to do it but she would not have objected to it. She would have thought it was the right thing to do. See this had great sympathy for servicemen. She was lonely when he informs world war i and she thought they should all be treated equally. Hi, i have a question. Actually i went to visit the museum in independence, missouri. But i wondered after mr. Truman died if bess was there by herself. And also i worked for paul civics for awhile who dropped a bomb on hiroshima. And he didnt really want to talk about that too much. He did it because he had to do it. Did truman have the same feeling. Who wouldnt. You know the thought of killing hundreds of people, i dont think there is anything written about it. He had to stop the war. It was a religious it was a military decision. In my opinion any president would have done the same thing because no president can defend losing more american lives. It was not going to stop, it was just not going to stop, the japanese part of it. And that is how we would answer that, i guess. There is a great clip. Harry truman spent a lot of time in his library. Kids wanted to know and truman was very forcefully defending his decision and he would not talk to elementary children about it. When bess was in missouri, did she hold functions . They opened the social season in washington because it ended during the war. Yes, there was no formal entertaining at the white house. It doesnt seem like it would be their personal style. President truman, he identified the president like his private life was different from him and what he was representing. And no one would insult the office. So when the social season was revised, they were sticklers. Just right time, right time, and these dinners, the chief usher in his memoir says the white house has never been to formal and everything was done exactly as they it had been really before the roosevelts. But ironically, they only got one social season, because yeah, they only got one, because they had to move to the they did entertain at the mayflower from time to time. But they had to move out, you know. And and well tell the story of their major renovation. Almost every president weve talked about and first lady has done some renovation. Nothing like the trumans, and well tell that story a little bit later. But one thing that they did do to the white house, i believe, in the first term was the addition of the balcony. Yes. And that its today always referred to as the truman balcony. Tell us about the concept of it and how hard it was for that to get through here. It was done basically for spite. He had had a west wing prepared that held a big staff. Roosevelts staff was just stuffed in there, even though roosevelt had doubled the west wing. So truman wanted to build down 17th street a long addition to a large auditorium for press conferences. Well, it passed through congress, and then the congress rescinded it, and he was as mad as he could be. And the Reason Congress did, they said he was defacing the white house. Well, so he got in his head to build a porch on the south side of the white house where there was no upstairs access to a porch of anything. And he did it on his own, and he took it out of the household budget. He didnt ask congress or anyone. He did get an important architect he respected, Williams Adams delano, who was around the white house a lot, and they built that balcony. And it is the truman balcony, because thats what he did. And once finished, how did they use it . Oh, they used it all the time like a patio. And practically every president after that wrote him a letter saying the one thing im glad you did to this house is add the truman balcony, because it was so great. They liked to sit on it. Access it off of their private space . Off of the oval room, they now call the yellow oval room upstairs, kind of a parlor thing. And whats the view from there . Oh, its stunning, absolutely magnificent, with the you know, the Jefferson Memorial ahead that roosevelt built and then the washington monument, which should be where the Jefferson Memorial is, over here. And washington is just at your feet with its height limitations, you know, and its just a carpet. Its a beautiful, beautiful view. The film footage of when you do the fords, of the fords during the centennial, shows the showing the view from that is just beautiful, with Queen Elizabeth there and everything. What can you tell the audience about the trumans private life in the white house, especially during their first term, especially with all these momentous things going on . Well, they certainly didnt get much time to relax. Its very busy. And as weve talked about, bess does spend a lot of time traveling back and forth to independence. Now, thats not just her being spiteful. She still feels that she has to be the caretaker for her mother, who suffers two mothers. Two mothers. Trumans mother is still alive during his early years of the white house. They have Family Business to take care of. When they are in the white house together, they would do the same things that they did at home. They read. They enjoy an evening cocktail. They liked to listen to music. And they chat with margaret. Youre talking about the truman balcony and how they used it, they used it the same way they used their porch in independence, as a time to spend time together. Now, one of the things we often talk about is this first lady on their image and how they might have influenced, and were seeing this more and more as the years progress, american style and culture. Was bess truman known for that . Well, she certainly didnt dress poorly or unfashionably. I dont think she was mocked for her fashion sense. Today, i mean, Jackie Kennedy really sets the tone, and so when we look at the first ladies that come before her, we dont think about them having this wonderful fashion sense. But bess was a stylish lady. And her High School Friends always spoke about how she knew the latest fashions, and she took pride in her appearance, and she liked to go shopping, just like many women. Remember what truman said about her . She looks just like a woman her age ought to look. Yes, he thought she was appropriate and sensible, and margaret thought so, too. We are going to visit the truman president ial library in independence, missouri, and learn more about bess trumans style. Were at the harry s. Truman library in independence, missouri. And were going into one of our collection storage spaces, where we have artifacts and hats and clothes, jewelry related to mrs. Trumans time in the white house. Bess always had an excellent sense of style. Even when she was a young woman, one of her friends noted that she always wore more stylish clothes or wore clothes more stylishly than many of her friends did. This is a hat that was made by one of bess trumans favorite designers in washington, d. C. Her name was madam agasta. Its got brown egret feather on it. Its made of brown wool felt. She wore this hat when princess elizabeth and her husband, prince phillip, came to the United States in october of 1951. And thats one of the nice things about working here in the library, is that we have a lot of artifacts and photos and documents, and you can put the whole thing together and tell all of the story all together, which goes along with one of the hats that we have over here. This is a hat that we didnt originally know very much about. We had no idea what event she might have worn it at, and its quite a hat. In the process of going through mrs. Trumans papers, we located a letter that she had written. This is a handwritten draft of a letter that she would have given to her secretary to type. She says, i am simply delighted with my hat i love that part. She says, its the most attractive one i have seen all spring, and i am happy it is mine. She says, i wore it at one of the most important occasions, when Queen Juliana was here, the day she presented the carillon to the nation and had many pleasant things said about it. And so when we read that letter, we realized we have photos of that event so we can look back at that event and know what hat she wore. And we looked through the photos and found one, a good one of her where you can see what shes wearing, and then we took the photo down and compared it to some of the hats in our collection and, lo and behold, realized we had this hat. So, once again, its nice to connect the document to the photo to the artifact and be able to tell that whole story all together. Another interesting part of bess is that she was a very private person. And this is a dress that kind of demonstrates that fact. This is a dress that she wore in 1952 to the jeffersonjackson day dinner. That was the dinner where president truman officially announced to the people that he was not going to run for president in 1952. He had the opportunity to do that, but he chose not to. And so it was an important event for bess. It signaled she wasnt going to be living in washington, d. C. , after 1953. She was going to get to come home to independence. And we have a number of photos of her wearing this dress. We didnt originally have this dress. Bess donated this dress to her church bazaar, and someone at the bazaar bought it, realized what it was, and then turned around and donated it to the library. But that kind of signals to people how bess felt about her time in the white house, not that she didnt necessarily like it, but it wasnt something that defined her, something that was really important to her, and she could just give things away. Two days that dinner was two days after they moved back into the white house. And speaking of clothing, the president was a natty, natty sort of Adolphe Menjou dresser. I mean, he was pure palm beach. Well, that was the haberdasher, right . Yes. Oh, yes. He had gorgeous taste in clothes, modern, very modern and kind of young. And was a trim man, wore them well. He was a trim man. He was in shape, and he, you know, walked like a madman. I mean, the his whole military, whatever they call it, and he wore doublecolored shoes and really goodlooking everything, pressed and just fine. He was very aware of clothes himself. I think natty is an excellent word to describe it. On twitter, t4vista asked, did the first lady have many women friends . Absolutely. One of besss probably highlights of her early days in the white house, she invited in 1946 her entire bridge club from independence to come out and spend a long weekend. And this is the type of thing bess was doing it for herself and for her friends to have a good time, but it was the sort of thing that played very well in the press, too, because her women friends were so excited to be there, and she showed them the town. She took them out to lunches and to musicals and shopping, and they so enjoyed the white house. Besss women friends were very, very dear to her, and she kept many of her friendships throughout her entire life. Heres pat in fenton, mississippi. Youre on the air. Caller fenton, michigan. Ah, hi, fenton, michigan. Sorry. Wrong part of the they didnt sound very mississippi. Yeah, doesnt sound mississippi. Caller we had the pleasure of going to independence and touring the house, and they had you go in through the backdoor, just like the family, and seeing the president ial library, which we really enjoyed. But my question is about the trumans financial circumstances. When you mentioned that bess worked in his Senate Office and it was quite controversial that she was paid, perhaps they needed the money, and certainly the president was the reason that congress has established a pension for retiring president s. And i wonder if their financial circumstances might have led them not to do as much entertaining and so forth as previous president s who had their own budgets. Absolutely, financial reasons were why he does put bess on the payroll. Margaret truman always described her mother as a pennypincher, but margaret also admitted it was a good thing she did. The finances were often very tight. And it was somewhat ironic for trumans second term, no one had expected the democrats to win and that pesky congress had approved a bill that would double the president s salary, so imagine their dismay when that to what . From 50,000 i think to 100,000, which is a huge leap. And so imagine their dismay when harry truman received that money, instead. But as the caller also mentioned, president s did not have pensions before truman. They were just kind of put out. They didnt really even have security. Well take another call. This is from jose in philadelphia. Hi, jose. Caller yes, good evening. My question is about the attempt the assassination attempt on president truman. How did that affect trumans family . And what was his political opinion on the puerto rican question . Okay, thanks so much. Well do you want to do it, nicole . Go ahead. He had definitely favored independence for puerto rico. Thats whats so strange. He had made two important speeches, one to congress and one there, favoring the independence of puerto rico, and this was just, i guess, two killers who came along on november the 1st, 1950, assaulted attempted to run into the blair house and got tangled up in a screen door. And the shooting started. And, of course, a very wonderful Young Secret Service man was killed. And the trumans were both there. They were on their way to arlington cemetery. They were getting dressed to go to a dedication of general, i guess, dills, the english general who died it was in the war and attache in usa and requested to be buried in arlington. They were going to his dedication, and mrs. Truman said, according to Margaret Truman, mrs. Truman said, harry, theyre shooting at our policemen. And so the policemen yelled, get down. Get down. He stuck his head out the window. It was a pretty messy thing. And the well, the one the assassin who survived was sent to prison, and president carter released him from prison after, what, 40 years or Something Like that . So this was during the second term and he expressed no regret. And when they were living in the blair house, an explanation we have not yet gotten to, why they spent so much time there. The 1940 election, did bess truman want harry to run for reelection . She didnt try to stop him. You know, in her heart of hearts, does she want to keep being first lady . No. But, again, this is a partnership. She might have been able to persuade him not to run, but she knew that in his heart of hearts, thats what he believed was best for the country. And so she supported him. So many people would remember the famous Dewey Defeats Truman headline. New york times. You said earlier that everyone was expecting everyone. Dewey to win. Everyone. So give us some of the flavor of the campaign, what the issues were, and why there was so much expectation truman would lose. Truman was not popular at this time. Why not . The economy wasnt reconverting as fast as it could have. Hes liberal. I mean, he was he was liberal. People were more liberal than people were at the time. Tired, but not liberal enough for many people. Harry truman could do very little right in 1948, and his own party didnt really support him. It wasnt 100 percent certain he was even going to get the nomination. So what are the issues . He campaigns on a Recalcitrant Congress who wont work with him and wont let him get anything done. And he campaigns on foreign policy. Look what ive done with the marshall plan, look what ive done with the truman doctrine. And this is where one of everyones favorite truman stories comes out. His Vice President ial nominee, alben barkley, tells him on a train to go out there and give em hell, harry. And one of the reporters hears that, and as these things happen, from then on, thats what people yelled at him everywhere. Give em hell, harry. Because he made a crosscountry and, you know, he had done that before, once when the prendergast machine had gotten him elected in missouri, and they fell apart, and he ran again on his own. He did, 1940. And he went out and spoke to people and got in front of courthouses and everything and won it on his own personality. So he must have had enormous personality as a stumper, as they say, on stump speeches. Absolutely. He was not a great orator. We dont look at trumans speeches the same way we look at lincolns speeches. But they say that in a small group and small crowds, he could win anyone over, and he did. And he did. How important was the whistlestop tour of the campaign . Hugely. Very, very. Why . It got him elected, brought him to the people. Absolutely. And what was Media Coverage like at that time . Well, it was radio and print, you know . And movietones, as we saw and, of course, television, but it was to be at the end. No, yeah, movietone news, that sort of thing. And they stopped polling. Dewey was so far ahead that they stopped polling a couple weeks before the election actually took place. And thats why their numbers were so off. And did bess and did margaret campaign with him . Yep. They spent a lot of time on the train. They were all exhausted and ready to head down to key west after that. Well, we didnt talk about key west. Adrian myers wilbur asks on facebook, i remember visiting key west, florida, and seeing the little white house where the trumans would visit in the winter. I wonder what bess thought of visiting key west. How did they use key west . Well, he used it a lot to go fishing and swimming. And one of the secret servicemen who used to go with him, rex scouten, said he had a little trick he liked to do. He liked to hold you under the water until you were almost dead and then let you get up. But it was mostly men and men things. He liked as i said earlier the company of men, poker and all that stuff. Mrs. Truman didnt go many times. No. But she did go. And, you know, margaret had a public persona. She was kind of easy with the press and things like that. People liked her. Were watching some whats called broll, some footage without sound of the trumans in key west. And it looks like he could relax there. He absolutely did. And it also reminded me his fashion sense was always remarked upon when he went down to key west with hawaiian shirts. Flashy shirts. They also they cut up a lot. They did. I mean, they took movies of him partying around, jumping up and down and carrying on. He just let it go when he was with the masons or with the he went over to alexandria to the big Masonic Building over there, and they introduced him, and he interrupted and said, here, im harry. And can you imagine a president being this casual today . He was, but he was in control. Casually in control. He was casually in control. Yes, he was. No. And why not . Because of the media or well, things have changed. I mean, just look at even the blair house assassination attempt with the president leaning out the window watching this happen. They dont have the freedom to move around like they used to. The window would be unlocked. You could right. There was no way that was going to happen. So harry truman was elected, surprising the press, at least, and the political establishment to his second term, and a busy second term it was. Heres just a list of some of the highlights of the second Truman Administration the establishment of nato; the korean war; that assassination attempt we talked about; and the 22nd amendment to the constitution, following roosevelt, which created president ial term limits. How challenging a time was the second term . The first year was said to be their happiest in the white house. They thought here was the chance well, they harry thought here was the chance to be president in his own right. This is when the fair deal starts really kicking off. But then things go horribly wrong, largely because of korea. That shatters the economy. It shatters the peoples faith in him and their willingness to understand. And then he fires macarthur. Yeah, and macarthur made the biggest show out of it on earth. He went and addressed the congress and said, old soldiers never die. They just fade away, and it became a popular song. And it was they through a lot of mud. It was very undignified, really, to tell you the truth, but did bess change her approach to first ladyship in the second term . Did she spend more time in the white house, more time in missouri . Shes still going back and forth a lot. But, again, thats largely because of family issues. They reestablish their partnership. They kind of get over the personal tensions that they had during those early days where shes feeling a little bit left out. They find their rhythm again. And they their union is happier and steadier the second term. Lets take a call from louis watching us in los angeles. Hi, louis. Caller yes, thank you. What was mrs. Trumans opinion about her Husbands Association about with Tom Prendergast . I know mr. Seale mentioned Tom Prendergast, but what was her thinking and her opinion about Tom Prendergast and associating with president truman . Thank you. Thank you. Its a good question. Who he was, first of all. He was a political boss in missouri. And he was a kingmaker and his son. Mrs. Trumans family knew him. I mean, he was a prominent person. And i doubt that she thought much of it. I mean, she thought he was probably just fine. Truman says in his letters you see that hes going that way with prendergast, doing what prendergast wants, because thats how he got in office, but he quickly began to splinter off from that. But to answer your question, i dont imagine mrs. Truman thought much of it, because she knew them. It was simply the way politics was done in kansas city at that time. And they were a prominent family, and she the prendergasts were and she knew them. Thank you. Robert is in branson west, missouri. Oh. Hi, robert, youre on the air. Caller hello. I was wondering if bess truman ever attended former or future first ladies funerals. Thank you. Gosh, i dont know. I know three first ladies attended her funeral, but its a very good question. Well, she would have certainly some died, because she lived such a long time. Well, im trying to think it actually, ms. Theodore roosevelt died during his presidency. She certainly probably went to mrs. Roosevelts funeral i would think so. I would imagine. And when did Mamie Eisenhower . Oh, no, late, much later, as did mrs. Franklin roosevelt, but ms. Theodore roosevelt so there really wouldnt have been a huge opportunity. No, and probably wasnt expected, but i now, thats a tough one. Thats a really interesting question. I dont know. Jack cutton wants to know, what was bess trumans pet issue . Did she have one . I dont believe they had any pets. I dont think she had one. No, no, pet issue. I dont think she had one. Oh, no. Favorite issue . So she had no causes . Her thing . No. No, i dont think so. And that was well, actually, i take that back. She was interested in health care. She believed she urged harry to increase funding to, i think, the National Institute for health, some sort of research foundation, and you can look at the numbers in his second term. That budget does go up. She really thought people should have Better Health care, as did harry. Well, he proposed universal health care. He did. And one of the reasons he was so unpopular. Yeah, a liberal program. I want to tell you about a book, and its my leadin to the question about the best truman portrait, but this book has been published by our partners in this series, the White House Historical association, and it is a collection of biographies of the first ladies of the United States, has all of their official portraits, biographies, of each of them. And as a keepsake for those of you whove been watching the series, you see that little yellow bubble at the bottom. Its listed as a special edition for first ladies influence and image, the cspan original series, so if youre interested in this, it is available on our website at cspan. Org firstladies. And in it, you will find, among all the others, bess trumans official portrait. Her white house portrait was done, and we have a video that explains some of the background about bess trumans official portrait. This painting was originally painted as my grandmothers official white house portrait. In the 1960s, Lady Bird Johnson went looking for portraits of first ladies to hang, to rehang in the white house. She thought that was important. And she looked high and low and she could not find my grandmothers official portrait, so she called my grandmother, and she said, mrs. Truman, do you know where that painting is . We cant find it. And my grandmother said, yeah, its on my wall. And mrs. Johnson said, you really shouldnt have that. It belongs in the white house. And my grandmother said, no, thats my painting, its on my wall, and thats where its going to stay. And i think mrs. Johnson tried a couple of more times, so that eventually she gave up and had a copy painted. There are actually two copies made by the artist, greta kempton. And one of them hangs in the Truman Library just down the road and the other is in the white house, but those are the two copies. This is the original portrait. I dont know who did the portrait. I can look it up for you, but back to the table here, bill. Okay. We have to tell the story about the renovations of the white house. Okay. Because the trumans, in their almost eight years in the white house, spent less time in that building than any other president. There you go. You want to do it . Absolutely. It was falling down. The leg of margarets piano fell through the floor, and the engineers were concerned that the whole thing was going to collapse onto the trumans, essentially. So so what did they do . Well, the trouble started right after pearl harbor, when the corps of army engineers, the old enemies of the white house, came in and did an engineering survey. I talked to some members of the crew, long gone now, but the ceiling in the east room had dropped 40 inches. The rooms so long, 85 feet, you cant tell. He said he walked in there under the plaster, it was but it was considered a fire trap, and they recommended that roosevelt move out. Of course, he wouldnt do it, and he then they said they wanted to paint it camouflage during the war. He wouldnt do that. Well, after the war, when truman was there, the house was kind of empty in the upstairs and the floors jiggled and all that. Roosevelt loved houses that did that. But the plaster would begin to trickle down from the light fixtures. Yeah, and the light fixtures and would and so they decided that they had to get out. So they moved across the street, and great plans were done for redoing the white house. Now, i bet you he consulted with this with mrs. Truman. They wanted to tear it down. That was the easiest thing to do. But George Washington built those walls and truman wouldnt hear of it. He had the house gutted, but the stone walls on the outside never were touched. In fact, they wanted to take a bulldozer in through one of the doors, and they were about to open it up with pickaxes, and he saw them, and he said, stop and they took the bulldozer down and a dump truck down and reassembled them in the cellars of the house to dig the lower cellars. And the house was rebuilt in steel and concrete. Here are your old walls with the brick taken they had a brick backing of three feet. And then is this doing and, anyway, thats a steel frame on the inside, and its eight inches from the original stone walls, and each room is a cage. And when it was finished, it was believed to be bombproof. Well, of course, thats the joke now. Unfortunately. And they moved over to blair house, where they lived most of the time. And they loved it. They thought it was beautiful and it still had all the blair things and it had never been decorated or anything like that. And smaller and more approachable, more absolutely, more intimate. More approachable, more a home. He did definitely consult with bess. She wanted the original structure to remain. But he also consulted with her, because why wasnt this done in their first term . It was falling down then. And bess and harry are both convinced that somehow the press would blame the trumans for bringing down the white house. And so they waited until he was reelected to tackle this project. Did living in the blair house have any positive or negative influence on his presidency . It might have allowed him to relax a little bit more. But he lived with the formality of a president. He did. He ate every meal even by himself with finger bowls and all the silver and all the stuff like that, because he did a few funny descriptions of it. One of my favorite truman stories, he often wrote bess letters when she was home in independence and he was in the white house. And he was just convinced he could hear the ghosts of his predecessors wandering the halls. And i think he really enjoyed imagining they were there to keep him company. Bess thought it was silly, until one night, she and margaret heard a crash, and then they thought for just a minute that maybe there were ghosts there, but well, if you took the insides out, maybe the ghosts went with them. They might have. How much of the original white house was preserved in this process, mantles . Mantelpieces were preserved. Some doors. Not much of it was to be preserved, because it was cheaper to put crestwood in and stuff, but lorenzo winslow, the architect, really was the hero, as far as the original things. He saved what he could. And during the clinton administration, when the blue room was being redone, and the paint was taken off, there was all that old original pine, those enormous boards, the most gorgeous thing in the world that winslow had insisted that they be put back in the house while he was there to do it and didnt have to listen to anyone else. So i dont know what percentage. You know, of course, next year is the 200th anniversary of its burning. And about 30 percent of it was torn down after that fire. But, you know, the walls are 100 percent. And what percentage is that of the house . I dont know. Everything else was and then the subbasements were dug. And one secret one was dug, and truman ordered the park service to surrender 750,000 of its budget to do the subbasement, the one in 9 11, that the Vice President was in, and its the secure space. It was done secretly and not secure anymore, but the that became secretly out of the park service budget, and those bulldozers went down and dug it, but no one knew it. We have some film, video of when the president reintroduced the white house to the nation afterwards. What was the public reaction when it was reopened again . Oh, i think people thought it was beautiful. Would you agree, just thought it absolutely. National geographic did a beautiful issue on it after truman moved out of office. And heres a tour that i think nbc gave. People thought it was beautiful. It was all done by a Department Store in new york, the decorating, b. Altman. And chuck haight made the decisions. Mrs. Truman and the president refused to make decisions on wallpaper and things like that, because they said it was not their house. It was for the future. And so mr. Haight and the staff made most of those decisions. And it was done cheaply. I mean, theyve beat everybody down. Scalamandre, Franco Scalamandre gave fabrics for 3. 50 a yard, which, you know, are hundreds of dollars a yard. So for the prestige. So Sheldon Cooper asks on twitter, how much influence did bess have in the rebuilding of the white house . The answer is, as much as she wanted, which as much as she wanted, but they both felt that they werent going to live there long and that it was something more important. Neesin is in visalia, california. Whats your question for us . Caller visalia, but i have two questions. One, since the world series is on, was she a sports fan, like, did she root for the cardinals . And, number two Kansas City Royals all the way. They were big sportspeople. Bess was. Not harry. Bess was. Not him. Caller and then the second question was, you mentioned that harry overcame his prejudices, but i heard the story through merle miller who wrote the merle miller who wrote the plain speaking, that one time when they came to the house, he said he couldnt let them in because he was jewish and the family was kind of antisemitic. One of harrys best friends, one of his army buddies, was eddie jacobson, who was jewish, and he was actually the one that he ran the Mens Clothing store in kansas city with. So the trumans certainly did associate with jewish people. Wasnt he his best man . I think besss brother served as best man. Well, a tailor was in the wedding who did a suit for him, but charged him for it. I dont think that was a jacobson. But he was a dear friend to harry truman. Yeah, very close friend. A twitter viewer, 379life, wanted to know, after watching that, where did they raise the money to fix the white house . Congress. All of it . No public appropriations . Would you no, would you believe it cost about 5. 5 million . Think of what it would be today. Peter is in boston. Hi, peter. Caller hi, how are you . Good, thanks. Caller i just wondered, was bess truman friends with any other first ladies . She admired Eleanor Roosevelt. They were friendly, not dear friends. Mamie eisenhower, before she was the first lady, when bess was the first lady, they took a spanish class together in the white house. A group of washington ladies decided to learn spanish. And bess grew very fond of her then, and there was later a rift between the trumans but and the eisenhowers, but bess was fond of mamie. Others . I cant think of any others. I think she liked Lady Bird Johnson. Oh, they did very much enjoy the company of both of the kennedys. They went and stayed at the white house after jack and jackie were in the white house. They certainly did. They went for the inauguration, didnt they . Didnt like joe kennedy, but they liked the son. No. Yes. I mentioned earlier our website, which has all the video of all of the first ladies programs weve done so far and also lots of other videos you havent seen here. You can find it at cspan. Org firstladies. Each week, we put one special thing about the first lady that were featuring that we havent used during the program. If you go there now, youll find Clifton Truman daniel sharing another story about his grandmother from the home in independence, so something just for you online. 1952 election, why did the trumans decide could they have run again if they wanted to . Yes. Yeah. The constitutional amendment not only did not apply to the incumbent, but it would have only been his second time being elected. But bess said to him that she could not take another four years as first lady, and how old were they then . In their 60s at least. Oh, yeah. He was 61 when we went to the white house, so he 69, he would have been. Yeah. And she didnt think he could take it, either. They were in good health for their age, but the korea and mccarthyism was starting to spread, and they were getting worn down. And once eisenhower turned republican, it was pretty clear he was going to win. I mean, he was a hero. But what was the trumaneisenhower relationship, since he had been president at the end of the war . Well, part of the trouble was that eisenhower turned out to be a republican, where truman had hinted that he might support eisenhower if he wanted to run as a democrat in 1948 and truman wouldnt run. Truman really admired eisenhower for a long time. And eisenhower was somewhat aloof to him from all of the letters and memos that we see. And then truman was highly offended during the transition period, when eisenhower did not appear to want to take his advice, and then a big social snub occurred on inauguration day. Its customary for the incoming president to stop by the white house, have tea, pick up the outgoing president , and ride together. First, eisenhower, it said, wanted to be picked up at his hotel. The trumans said no. So he and mamie arrived at the white house, but they would not come inside and greet the trumans. Sat in the car. They sat in the car. And the president of the United States had to walk out to him. So you can feel the tension, if you look at the pictures of that inauguration. And after the inauguration, truman was almost forgotten. I mean, he was almost thrown out. Had no guards. Guards were taken away and everything. Of course, he had no pension or anything coming to him. And one of the secret Service Detail took annual leave to accompany them back on the train to independence. And no one told them goodbye, until they got to the train station. There were about, what, 100 people cheering them . No, i think there were more. It was another time that no one had turned out. I think when they left, there were more. And then when they returned home, there were thousands in independence. Right, in independence. And so they were gratified, but, yeah, somewhat offended. He had trouble with the thousands. You know, theres that story about him getting out of his car and going to the front door. And his glasses were gone, and the crowd pushed in on him. His glasses were gone and his handkerchief was gone. And they built an iron fence thats there now. Thats after the presidency. They did not expect the crowds, and people just kept walking by and wanting to see them. Theres a story about margaret one day coming out onto the porch and yelling at someone to go away, and they later found out he was an escaped mental patient or Something Like that who had a gun. It was a very different time. Price of fame. Very different time. But the city of independence put a policeman off duty on the back porch, and thats the only guard they had that was it. Until after kennedy, when kennedy was killed, and then the pensions stared, and the secret Service Detail, and all that. But bess would not allow them in the house still. Oh, i didnt know that. She wouldnt . No, she would not allow them in the house. Ha. In fact, during the white house years, when she would go back to home in independence, she would not allow secret service protection. No, she wanted to go shopping. She wanted to do her Christmas Shopping and live as normally as possible. But did they go anyway with her . Not that im aware of. Really . No. Surprised they let her get by with that one. Don in chester, pennsylvania . Hi, don. Caller hello, hello . Your question, please . Caller yes, i had the good privilege of corresponding with mrs. Truman twice after her husbands death. Id sent her a copy of a tribute that i had written for our school paper, and she very graciously responded with a nice letter, and then i sent her birthday greetings. And she made a personal letter. She had terrible arthritis, and she just made the effort to be down home. The interesting thing was that, in margarets book about her mother, she comments that president truman was very protective of mrs. Truman concerning her fathers death. And a cousin very meanly told margaret about the circumstances of her grandfathers death, and, of course, president truman had a fit about that and really ripped into the woman, and that was very unusual, because he was a very courtly gentleman as a rule. So that was a very interesting footnote to the trumans family history. And she was at mrs. Roosevelts funeral with her husband and the johnsons and the kennedys, and there are pictures to that effect in the roosevelt library. Don, that caller thank you. Don, before you go, how did you get so interested in the trumans . Caller well, since interestingly enough, just hours before Robert Kennedy was killed, i picked up a book on president kennedy, and that got me interested in politics in general. And since that, 45 years ago, i really have become a particular aficionado of the president s, but just of politics in general, especially american politics, from 1932 to the present. Thanks for your call tonight. So in their years after the white house, one of the things they did was an interview for National Television in 1955. Now, talk about easy interviews. Who were they interviewed by . Their daughter, margaret. Their daughter, margaret, asked her parents the questions. We have it was a program on cbs called person to person, which was really a big hit program at the time. And it was the only Television Interview that bess truman ever did. How about that . In her whole public career. And youre going to see a little bit of that next. But, mother yes . Please tell everyone why you went back to missouri instead of staying in washington. Well, there was never any question of staying in washington. There was never any question about coming home. Is that reasonable enough . Thats all right, yes, ill buy that. Mother . Yes . Are we still getting a lot of sightseers and visitors . Oh, loads of them, yes. All the time . All the time, every day. We had a funny experience the other night. Dad and i went over to see your cousins across the street, and there were so many of them out here in front of the house, we couldnt come home. We had to spend most of the evening on the front porch over there all by ourselves, because the cousins were not at home. Oh, fine. Is that ridiculous . Yes. Yeah, what about the time someone picked your tulips . Remember . Oh, well, yes, some woman came into the backyard and started picking all my beautiful white tulips. A lot of the men on the place went down to ask her just what she thought she was doing, and she said, oh, she didnt think mrs. Truman would care if she took some of her tulips. Fine thing, after well, she helped herself. She took all she wanted. Thats a fine thing, after all the work you did on them. Yes, isnt it . Mother . Yes . For years, we had secret servicemen around us, at least dad and i did. Do you miss washington . Oh, yes, i miss washington. I miss washington a lot. I loved it there. But im completely happy at home. Of course, the secret servicemen didnt bother me as much as they did you and dad. Well, if i remember, you lost them. Yes, i did. Early in the game. Thats what i thought. Ed murrow wanted me to ask you just how much influence and help was mother when you were in the white house . She was a wonderful influence and a wonderful help. A president is in a bad way if he doesnt have a first lady that knows her job and is a full support to him. Shes the greatest helper a president can have, and mine was. Good. Mother, let me switch from washington to kansas city. Hey, hows your Baseball Team doing . Well, were doing pretty well. Were going to have a great team, though, before the seasons gone. That sounds like a good youre the sports fan in the family. Have you seen anything good on tv lately . Well, a few good things, yes, but i havent been able to find that wrestling matches. No good wrestling matches, huh . No, not at all. Mommy, you want to say a few words about politics specifically or in general . No, not in either category, thank you. Oh, thats definite enough. Dad you know your mother never talks politics. So that is just a glimpse that was fun. Of a much longer isnt that fun . A much longer person to person interview by Margaret Truman of her parents in 1955 after they left the white house. They do come across as just plain folks. They really were, and they valued that. They valued loyalty and hard work and honesty. And they liked a good laugh, but they were normal people. But he was not popular when he left the white house. It took many years for his reputation to be reestablished. Why were so many people going to see them in missouri . Well, part of it he wasnt necessarily unpopular at home. Hes still the hometown hero. Independence, missouri, has not had any other president s. And they probably thought they could just walk right up and say hello to the trumans as they had in the past. How did they spend their postwhite house years . They were long ones. They were long ones. He wrote his memoirs, first of all, because he had to make money. He wasnt getting a pension. And several lucrative offers came his way, but he like bill was saying, he never believed anyone should trade on the presidency. So he wrote his memoirs and bess edited every single word. And that was their first project. And the establishment of the Truman Library. He was intimate to that, intimate to that, and believed very much that it was a matter of history, of interpreting history. And he did the original design himself for the exhibit. And kept an office there. Yes. And if you visit visit there today, you can see the office, and one of the striking things is his office looked right out on his future grave site. Well, the great story with that, he said, i can just see bess, youre going to lay there next to me, and i can say one day i can see myself saying, oh, i feel like going into the office. And youll say, harry, oughtnt. So thats how they expected to spend eternity. And margarets buried there, and mr. Daniel, as well, her husband. Yeah, and were seeing pictures of the truman family grave sites right now. They have Margaret Truman, by the way, had four sons, and as you saw, Clifton Truman is very involved in the legacy of his grandparents. One of the four sons passed away, and im not sure about how the other two or whether theyre really involved in the library and the preservation of the history. Theres one story and were running out of time, but this is such a great story. And someone asked, what id like to know more about is the trip she took with the president by car after leaving the white house. Did they really just do it, the two of them . It was the convertible trip across the country. Its a charming book about it. I cant remember the authors name, im sorry to say. I cant remember, either, but theres good stories out of it. But you can find it on the web about the trumans trip, the automobile trip. And they drove to washington from missouri. Its a wonderful book. Yeah. Well, one of the stories ill tell you that i remember is of people passing them on the road and nearly having accidents, because he was in a convertible and all of a sudden they recognized they had just passed the president of the United States and the first lady. Well, as we wrap up here, we have about two minutes left. Someone keeps asking wants to know, what on twitter, so we should ask it what would bess truman say is her greatest contribution to the role of first lady . Her greatest contribution to the role of first lady . Demonstrating that you can be a strong influential partner and you dont have to be on the front page or on the tv every day. Your influence can be strong without it being public. Exactly, and that she supported her husband and the president when he became the president. She supported him. They were very aware of that president and individual, you know . Harry died in 1972. Bess died in 1982, 10 years later. Ten years. How did she spend those 10 years after he passed . She up in years. She died at age 97. Right, she was at home. She tried to keep up her correspondence. The rheumatoid arthritis. Time with margaret. She had a caregiver finally, and then several of them at the end, but she died at home. She died in her home, and i imagine thats the way she would have wanted it. He died in a hospital, she died at home. And how should we remember . I think we should remember her the way she wanted to be remembered, that you can be a wonderful influential first lady, even if people dont know it at that time. And did have then any influence on the role of first lady . Or was she really truly her own person in that job . I would say she was her own person. I think absolutely. Because its not really possible anymore. Mrs. Reagan said, well, she was going to play cards with her friends, which is something bess truman would have done. Oh, my goodness, youd think shed committed treason, and so she got causes going. But mrs. Truman would have responded to that saying its my life and im not elected. Right. But not possible today. So she was an independentminded person it depends on the woman. At a time when that was allowed. Is that really a good well, i think it depends on the woman, you know, if she wanted to not get involved, but today women are so much more out than they were then. And this was 1940s and 1950s american women. Yeah. She was her own person. Well, thanks to both of you for telling us the story of thank you, susan. Thank you. Of bess, harry, and Margaret Truman, the tightknit family in the white house thrust into the job after the death of Franklin Roosevelt and then making it their own. We appreciate your time. Thank you, susan. Thank you. And thanks to the White House Historical association, our partners in this series, and to the folks at the Truman Library and the truman house in independence for their help with the video tonight. This is American History tv, on cspan3. Each weekend we feature 48 hours of programs exploring our nations past. This weekend on American History tv, university of maryland history professor richard bell talks about the declaration of independence, its origins, purpose, and global significance during and after the American Revolution. Heres a preview. Every delegate who voted on july 2nd new tom paynes argument backwards and forward. Richard henry lee certainly did and he wrote that april of 76 that no state in europe will either treat or trade with us so long as we consider ourselves subjects of great britain. With anyone in europe except britain if we are still subjects of great britain. Two months later when he wrote his june 7th resolution, he didnt just propose independence in that resolution, he actually proposed two other things in the larger language. He also proposed to prepare and digest the form of a confederation and offered a third resolution to draw up a plan for forming foreign alliances. In the same breath that we say how about independence, were saying how about foreign alliances . These two things are the same sort. Seen in that context, then. The declaration itself is a means to an end. And everyone at the time understood this. Even today we sometimes do not. On its own, congresss proclamation could not make the colonies free and independent. Maybe with frances help, it could. This is why the delegates had their declaration translated into french immediately. Its why they sent copies addressed to the king of france and the king of spraain on the first ship bound for europe. Its why they have them published in european newspapers. Its why the congress authorized john adams to draw up a list of talking points for negotiations with france within days. Its why congress dispatched Benjamin Franklin to paris later that fall. Learn more about the global significance of the declaration of independence saturday at 10 00 a. M. Eastern, 7 00 a. M. Pacific. Explore our nations past year on American History tv. The National Archives in washington, d. C. , home of the declaration of independence and the u. S. Constitution, is close to the public because of the coronavirus pandemic. We talked with the archivist of the United States about the pandemics impact on the archives work. The National Archives in washington, d. C. , home of the declaration of independence and the u. S. Constitution is closed to the public because of the coronavirus pandemic. We talked with the archivist of the United States about the pandemics impact on the archives work. David is the