Reed. Resident was sigmund in the citizens of may 1950, this young republic went to the polls again to exercise their democratic rights to choose their government under their democratic constitution. Even as the citizens of the korean republic voted in free elections, the north korean communist leaders were boasting of their intention to unify the country by force. And this was their target, a partially mountainous peninsula and the 20 million peaceloving citizens of the republic of korea. The attack by the north korean communists came suddenly and without warning. The heroic Republican Army faced by superior forces with all the advantages of deception and surprise rallied to the defense of the republic, improvising quickly to meet the unprovoked aggression, korean republican troops were thrown against the invaders south of the 38th parallel, against a prepared enemy armed with modern tanks and guns, they were illequipped to meet the onslaught. Back in the United States, an emergency session of the United Nation Security Council is called. Ambassador chang of korea hears the secretarygeneral say the present situation is a serious one and a threat to international peace. The Security Council is, mr. President , in my opinion the competent organization to deal with it. I consider the council needs to take steps necessary to reestablish peace in that area. A vote on the United States demand that the North Koreans halt their aggression is carried 90 with the soviet union absent. Back in korea, the saddest victims of a treacherous aggression by the communist north korean puppets are women and children. This is not new. These tragic and bewildered refugees are always the first proof of wanton aggression. Host Charles Hanley is joining us from naples, florida. He is a former a. P. International desk correspondent out with a new book, ghost flames, life and death in a hidden war. Korea 19501953. We thank you for being with us on cspan and cspan3s American History tv. Guest thank you. Good to be with you. Host the historical significance of the korean war, often viewed as the forgotten war. What is it 70 years later . Guest we can see it simply and i think we can see it simply in the tension that still exists on the peninsula with the nuclear crisis. It is sometimes called the forgotten war, because it was an indecisive conflict in a faroff place. It came just five years after the good war, the great war , world war ii. Eventually, it was overshadowed by the vietnam war. But when we look back, we can see this was a watershed moment in 20thcentury history, because it militarized the cold war between the communist and capitalist worlds. It also was the first undeclared war by the United States and its history. And of course, that is all we have had since. It remains the last conflict between great powers, in this case, america and china with soviet help. Soviet help on the chinesenorth korean side. A permanently militarize the United States within just a couple of years. The Defense Budget quadruple in the early as the war was 1950s being fought. And in essence the pentagon never looked back after that. But we can see, as i said in the nuclear crisis, this is rooted in that war. Because the United States ,hreatened in various ways openly and secretly through back channels, to use Nuclear Weapons against the North Koreans, against the chinese. As a result, obviously, china realized it needed its own deterrent and went to work on it. Chinese had a nuclear weapon. Now we can see the North Koreans as well, who suffered such tremendous devastation during the korean war, they now have their own Nuclear Arsenal as well, which they consider a deterrent against another devastating conflict with the u. S. Host we should point out we have a line set aside for those of you who are veterans of the korean war. Are you saying that the underlying issue in the conflict 70 years ago was the cold war tensions that resulted in the war . Guest yes. At the end of world war ii, korea, which was a japanese colony, was divided by the soviet occupation and American Occupation forces in the north and south. Consequently, they each followed divergent paths, communist and capitalist. In decemberthough 1945, washington and moscow reached what is called the moscow agreement to reunify the koreas within five years, their bickering and hostility between two great powers doomed that to failure. By 1948, the whole idea had been dropped and the two, south and north, declared themselves independent nations. So yes, we can find the root of the korean war very directly in this hostility between the soviet union and the United States. Host your upcoming book, you really try to personalize those who are on the front lines, including the citizens, in the war. Walk us through what you learned. Guest what i learned was even more than i already knew, and i had been working on this as a journalist for many years. But i learned even more about the complete devastation of two societies. Not just north korea, which suffered such tremendous bombardment, but also south korea. War. Ackandforth of the my characters, the featured individuals, and these are real people of course with real experiences, but i call them characters. My characters witnessed much of the horror of the war, some of the worst of it. From the atrocities, to the era of bombardment and north korea in particular. And so, this is a way i thought to bring home to the reader the real meaning of any war, and this war in particular, which is theected, it seems, on bookshelves in america in particular. And so, i have characters ranging from a little northern in seoul, a 10yearold girl, who opens the book with awakening to the start of the war, on through various soldiers and civilians, even an american nun who runs a clinic for refugees in south korea during the war, on up to people at the top channels, matthew ridgway, who ended up early on as overall commander on the American South korean side, and the chinese general who was the overall commander from 1950 onward on the chinese north korean side. I follow their experiences through the war. And through them, we get a good big picture, overview, of the strategy and the concept of the and the conduct of the war. In the meantime, many of my ordinary people are going through these battles, are fleeing as refugees, are under strafing from american airplanes and such. Host our guest has won a Pulitzer Prize for his reporting with the associated press. He is joining us from naples, florida. Before we get to the first calls, what specific event led to the initial conflict . Guest of course, there was an invasion on june 25, 1950. I believe it was seven north korean divisions coming across the 38th parallel. But there had been skirmishing along the 38th parallel, the separation line, for a couple years before that, some of them pretty serious. And so, when war broke out on june 25 that morning, a rainy morning in korea, many people in the south thought we hope it is just another skirmish. Well, it turned out to be a fullscale invasion. And actually, on the northern side, the people in north korea were told that south korea had attacked. And this fiction is still maintained by the North Koreans officially in their museums and such, but it was a surprise attack, and there was a failure on the south korean american side, an intelligence failure, to not detect the movement of troops across the north of the 38th parallel was preparation for invasion. The North Koreans had very cleverly staged a socalled maneuver, which was actually a hoax. The movements were not a maneuver. Not a practice. But rather a fullscale invasion. Host lets take your phone calls. Bo is first up from sylvester, georgia. Good morning. Welcome to the conversation. Caller thank you. I had a relative that served during the longest artillery duel, i believe, in naval history with an opposing enemy force. President truman called it a Police Action even though it was undeclared. And the second question i have is that the armistice ended the fighting on the peninsula in 1953, but there has been no formal treaty. To many of the North Koreans, the war has never been forgotten, even though we have forgotten the war itself in a lot of American History. Thank you. Host thank you. Two very important points. Guest i call it a war on hold. There has been no peace treaty. There was to be a political settlement. This was called for within the original armistice agreement in july, 1953, that there be a political conference that would reunify the two koreas. But the hostilities were just so great that by 1954 when the meeting took place in 1954 in geneva, it did not go very far. I think it lasted two or three months. Finally, the United States walked out over the disagreements over who would oversee elections and such. The United States proposed that the United Nations oversee the elections, but the United Nations was considered by the north to be a belligerent in the war. The Security Council had adopted a resolution urging countries to support south korea during the war. That was something the North Koreans could not abide. They proposed, they and the proposednd the chinese , a commission of neutral nations, but the americans rejected that and so it ended in failure. So we now continue to have a war on hold. No peace treaty. No war, no peace. I am sorry. Im sorry, your first question related to . Host it is a war that has never there has not been a cease fire, a formal agreement. Guest the caller brought up the undeclared aspect of the Police Action. This is interesting. And as a journalist, i see it happen often. That was raised in a question by a journalist to president truman. Would you consider it a Police Action . And truman said, yes. He went along with it, but this was not his formulation initially. And this was very early on when there was some thought from washington that the entry of the United States forces in the war, would in it pretty quickly, would become a peacekeeping operation, but that proved not true. As we see, it went on for three years at a tremendous cost. You may have mentioned the casualty toll for americans, which was over 36,000 dead. But the total dead for the others involved was tremendous and very indefinite. It is believed that between 200,000 and 400,000 south korean troops and the same number of north korean troops were killed and even more chinese killed in that war, approximately 500,000. But the real toll was on civilians in north and south korea. It is believed probably one million civilians on each side, north and south, were killed during that war. I think it is still considered the war with the most costly casualty toll of any america has ever fought. In other words, by the proportion of the total death toll. Host we are looking at the start of the korean war in 1950, 70 years ago, here on cspan. Cspan3s American History tv. Sam is next up from hillsdale, michigan. Thanks for waiting. Good morning. Caller i got so mad toward the end of this book i had to quit reading it. It seemed to me that the Truman Administration was just clicking its tongue and shaking its head watching macarthurs crazy behavior. Why didnt somebody do something about that man . Host to his point, and it may be a broader question, some of the key players involved in this conflict. Charles hanley . Guest the key players . You are asking the key players . Host he mentioned General Macarthur, but also some of the other key figures in the conflict. Guest on macarthur, his behavior really came to the fore during the war itself, not leading up to it. And during the war, General Macarthur was the overall commander in the far east. And so, he was the one who ordered troops in after getting the ok from truman in an undeclared war, ordered the troops into korea. And had a very hard time. To summarize the early backandforth seesawing, the north korean invasion pushed the south korean army and the few american troops there into the southeastern quadrant of south korea. Then, later, in september 1950, macarthur landed a huge Amphibious Force at inchon. And that effectively cut off the North Koreans in the south from their resupply. And at the same time, the American South Korean Forces in the south broke out from their perimeter and drove the north Korean Forces north. The North Koreans were very weakened at that point. And then, macarthur sent his forces across the 38th parallel, capturing pyongyang, and all the way onto the chinese border. Now, the directives from the joint chiefs of staff in washington were that he should not send american troops to the chinese border, because the chinese would consider that a threat. But he disobeyed that, and the whole u. N. Command at seoul moved toward the border, and some reached the border. That is when the chinese intervened, and that resulted in disaster for the americans. At the same time, macarthur made a strategic error splitting his forces up the east coast and west coast of north korea. And so the chinese could pick off the two split forces more easily that way. Their attacks were a great surprise to macarthur and his generals. They went into essentially a headlong retreat all the way back to seoul. And then eventually even south of seoul. The real thing that got to president truman about macarthur was that he was speaking out geostrategic leak geo strategically, not just militarily. But he kept pushing for a wider war against china, attacking chinese bases, attacking china itself, and even mustering troops from taiwan, Chinese Nationalist troops that had fled to taiwan, getting them to reinvade china for a second front in the war. My character, general ridgway, one of the featured individuals in my book, he could see early on that macarthur was making a great strategic mistake on the ground in north korea. And also, he understood, when he was told he was taking over from macarthur, that macarthur had been fired. And ridgway would leave the pentagon. Ridgway was already in korea in command of the eighth army, but he would leave korea and go to tokyo as far east commander. Ridgway knew that macarthurs ideas were mistaken and the American People would not stand for another global war. This time, against communism. Truman simply became too impatient with macarthurs insubordination speaking out publicly on geopolitical matters. And so, he fired him. Host we welcome our cspan Radio Audience and those listening on sirius xm. Channel 124 every sunday morning. Our guest is Charles Hanley. He is a Pulitzer Prizewinning reporter for the associated press. And his new, upcoming book titled ghost flames, life and death in the hidden war, as we look back at the korean war 70 years ago. Bob is up next from arlington, texas. Good morning. Caller my brother got killed over there august 5, 1952. And what bothers me the most is the fact that most people over here these days do not know china was the biggest part of why we lost that war. And we still disrespect it. The second thing is that on memorial day everybody says, happy memorial day. Well, it aint very happy for me, i will tell you that. The second thing is guys like cabernet like Colin Kaepernick who disrespect the flag really burns it. I tell you what, that is the lowest point we can ever, respect the honor of the people who died. That is what memorial day is all about, but you get a guy like Colin Kaepernick or these other celebrities and whatever. This is our flag, and theyre disrespecting it. I would love to disrespect one of their relatives in the same way. Host bob, tell us about your brother. What happened . Caller he waited to get drafted, and he was ready to come home. Evidently a sniper got him. , he was with the 5th regimental combat team, and was evidently behind the lines. But they had the snipers out there picking people off right and left. He had been promised to be able to come home. He had already served his time, and they kept promoting him. He got promoted. They did not know how to manage the peace. Everything was quiet, everybody was just waiting for the next move. Host how old was he when he passed away . Caller 22. Host bob, thank you for the call, and thank you for sharing your story. Guest i am very sorry to hear about your loss. And obviously, steve, the mention of china earlier, there were possibly as many as 600,000 chinese soldiers lost in the war and they were the deciding factor in the war. They saved north korea. Otherwise, we would have a unified korea beginning in the 1950s. But the chinese still view the war as a great victory, because they saved north korea. Pay close attention to the history of that particular war. Isfact, one of my characters the overall commander of the chinese generals who is the overall commander of the communists. Soon after he entered the war zone and set up headquarters, he mao zedongs oldest son on his staff as a russian translator. Soon after the chinese army entered north korea, the headquarters was attacked. And the general had just left his cabin, and for some reason, he had returned to the cabin with something. Warplanes, american planes, came in and napalmed an area of the headquarters and killed him. Maos son, who some considered a potential successor, is buried in north korea and honored on there memorial day, so to speak. The connection between china and north korea is quite close historically. They have their animosities, but the Chinese People and north Korean People recognize their relationship is deep and long. Host our guest is joining us from naples, florida. And our next caller is from key biscayne, florida. Bill, good morning. Caller good morning to you. It is a privilege to talk to mr. Hanley. My question is two parts. How did north and south korea originally become separated . As two distinct countries. My second part is, do you think north korea thinks in terms of what drives them today is not selfpreservation but the desire to unify the peninsula . Host thank you. First, on the division between north and south korea along the 30th parallel. Charles hanley . Guest yes. As i noted earlier, there was an agreement between the United States and soviet union to reunify the koreas after the end after they occupied separate zones at the end of world war ii, the north and south. But the discussions fell apart after a couple of years because of their growing animosity over so many other matters, particularly in europe. And so, they simply went ahead in mentoring and fostering the creation of separate governments. In 1948, the republic of korea was declared in seoul, and later in 1948, the democratic republic democratic peoples republic of korea was declared in pyongyang in north korea. As far as the attitudes towards reunification, i can say the Korean People are very, lets say, nationalistic, very proud of their culture, their history, their unity over centuries. Back in 1950, this was the first time koreans fought koreans in a millennium. It had been unified for about 1000 before the americans and soviets brought about this disastrous war. I think in their heart of hearts, all koreans would love to syrian of the occasion. I know would love to see reunification. I know in this out theres a bird in the south would have to undertake if they were to be impoverished north korea and very politically troubled north korea. As far as the north korean attitude come officially, attitude, officially, they consider themselves the legitimate government of all been, and the people have propagandized all their lives. I am sure they think it is their rightful place to be reunified and be the rulers of korea. Host the Korean War Legacy Foundation putting together a series of conversations. With those on the front lines of the battle between 1950 and 1953. Among them, allen clark. Here is part of his story. cspanhistory [video clip] first is the field site visit. It has this hood on the back that can zip up and button off. And it is real thick. Right. Another one is the, really, a godsend that we had. It had an overcoat. Which is here. T it is london fog, and everybody had one of these and everybody wore them. You slept in them, you wore them, and you were lucky to have one. In addition to that, we had a wool scarf, which was wonderful, because you could put it around your face in that wind, which was really cold. You could put it under your helmet and just have your eyes out. And that was wonderful. And one place, the wind was blowing like crazy. We were out near the bridge, and we were communicating with our headquarters. As i stood there with the wind blowing, and, at that time, it was 42 degrees below zero, and the wind was blowing like crazy, and if i faced the wind, i could not close my eyes. Host that is allen clark reflecting on what he remembers from the war in korea 70 years ago. Back to your phone calls. Al is joining us from ithaca, new york. Good morning. Caller good morning. Thanks for the program and your guest. Ive got two questions. One is if you could, even though his book starts in 1950, if he could deal a little bit more with the history of a korean resistance to the Japanese Occupation that started in 1905, and also the establishment of the free government in the south. From what i understand, the Korean Independence Movement was aclared a capital or declared party very early in september of 1945, and the u. S. Sort of instituted or made the rhee government come into existence. Thank you for your research. Host thank you. How al, thank you for your point. He really goes back to the start of the century. Guest history is very interesting, as you know. In 1905, there was a settlement of the russojapanese war, in which teddy roosevelt, the american president , played a mediating role. And, as part of the agreements, there was a secret agreement between the United States and japan in which the United States would acknowledge japanese suzereinty over the entire korean peninsula, and, in exchange, the japanese would not interfere with the american role in the philippines. And the japanese very quickly turned this into a colonial situation. They declared they basically annexed korea and declared a colony. They even tried they did impose the japanese language. They required all koreans to take japanese names, and they became a very hated colonial power over korea. The caller is correct, that there was some resistance to this, armed resistance, but it never amounted to much. In 1919, there were fairly peaceful protests that broke out, but they were crushed very ruthlessly by the japanese. And so the resistance ultimately gravitated toward manchuria and the russian far east, where there were many ethnic koreans in that region north of korea itself, in manchuria and china and the russian far east. And they were eventually organized as a guerilla force. In various ways. Either fighting with the chinese communists against the japanese and the Chinese Nationalists, or, and this is where kim il training, as part of a russiantrained guerilla unit in the soviet far east that was infiltrating japanesecontrolled manchuria and carrying out sabotage. Where kim ilsung grew into military strongman that he became. So this, then, also established the dichotomy between what and syngmane south rhee and the caller is right, that the south tried to form a koreawide or at least a southwide Independence Movement and even a structure for government. But the American Occupation force simply eliminated. And, in fact, there was a Korean Workers Party in the south, a communist party, that was outlawed, made illegal, by general hodge who was the american commander in the south. So there is a deeper history than simply what happened in 1945 with the division by the soviets and the americans. As, with everything, the roots run much deeper than that. You know, i mentioned the subtitle to my book, which is life death in a hidden war, korea 195053, with title being ghost flame, but this is a key part of what i tried to present. That is the hidden aspects of the korean war, many of which did not come to light for half a century. This involved mass political executions in the south. It had several aspects, but the worst of it all did not come out until after the year 2000, really. And between 2005 and 2010, a truth and Reconciliation Commission from south korea did some very deep investigations into happened in 1950. That thehappened was syngman rhee government had jailed tens of thousands of leftists as Political Prisoners. And when the war broke out, when north korea invaded, the military police and civilian police simply took these people out into outlying areas, had them dig their own mass graves, and then executed them by the thousands and thousands. And one of my characters, one of my featured individuals, is a british communist journalist of the london daily worker, and he was the first outsider to happen upon, while traveling with the north korean army deeper into south korea, he was led to these mass graves and reported the killing of thousands of Political Prisoners by the south korean government. In fact, he reported that american officers were present and u. S. Army trucks were used, u. S. Army drivers instructed to drive to the killing fields. His report in the london daily worker was then denounced as an atrocity fabrication by the u. S. Embassy in london, and no western reporter, so to speak noncommunist western reporter, ever followed up on this. It was not until the year 2000 that it turned out the u. S. Army officers at the scene of this one mass killing, although there were many, many over south korea, had taken photographs and sent them to the pentagon. And they were a classified secret and kept that way for half a century until finally a researcher had them declassified. And the denounced reporting turned out to be true. And there were other hidden aspects of the war that ghost flames goes into. Because some of my characters had actually witnessed or were brought up in these atrocities. One is a woman, a young mother who lost her two children. They were killed by the american 2nd cavalry regiment troops in late july 1960. And we follow her through that ordeal. She was badly wounded. And then, through the rest of the war as she tries to she is haunted, actually, through her whole life. But she and her husband went to the war, and her husband begins a quest to find out who killed these hundreds of refugees. There were orders that turned up at the national archives. The u. S. Air force, for example, who refugee columns that were approaching Military Lines in south korea. Orders such as a Division Commander of the 1st Cavalry Division telling his troops that refugees are, quote, fair game. And a colonel in his division ordering his troops to shoot all refugees trying to cross the river, the river which was the defense line at the south korean perimeter. So there were mass killings of refugees and civilians, not just by bombardment from north korea but by Ground Forces and aerial strafing from south korea as well. Not just by north korea. We will never know how many. My characters, the little girl living as a refugee in seoul, with her widowed mother, they are caught in one of these strafings on the road, where the girl sees the first People Killed in the war by an american aircraft simply randomly strafing civilians along the road outside seoul. So the book, i hope, will bring home, in very real terms, the dimension of it all. Real people who the reader gets to know. It will bring home, i think, the better than ever, to american readers, the true horror of the korean war. Host Charles Hanley, let me jump in. We have a lot of callers who still want to chat with you, but quickly, who was syngman rhee, the president of the republic of korea . Guest syngman rhee, he was a well educated christian korean. Actually, he was born in north korea, outside pyongyang, who very early on during the , japanese colonial era decades, for korean independence from japan. Actually, he was at the versailles conference at the end of world war i, agitating for korean independence. Of course, the japanese were allies in that war, allies of in world warowers i, and he he got nowhere with that. And then, in subsequent years, he lobbied in washington for korean independence and also world war ii. And then, when the two koreas when korea was divided into two nations, he had become known to the washington establishment and the cia, in particular. The very new cia. They wanted him installed as the president of the new south korea. And so General Macarthur in tokyo flew him over to take over in south korea. But he was very impetuous and, it turns out, very ruthless leader and became very unpopular with the people who had to work with him, the politicians and members of the national assembly. And it is interesting that there was an election just before the north korean invasion, an election in south korea that put the opposition in power in the national assembly. And they would have stripped syngman rhee of some of his power, but the invasion, in effect, saved rhee. Of rhee maintained a lot popularity among the people. Because of his insistence on total reunification. And, late in the war, as the americans, beginning in mid 1951, the americans were negotiating for an armistice with the chinese and the north 1953, rhee was so furious over this impending armistice that he began pulling stunts that tried to sabotage the talks. For example, freeing thousands of north korean prisoners in the south who declared they wanted to stay in the south. And this infuriated the northerners and the chinese. So rhee was a very difficult person for the americans to deal with, but, in the end, he had to acquiesce to the armistice. Host our guess is also the thethor of the book thege at no gun ri hidden nightmare of the korean war. Our next caller is a veteran of the war. Hermann is calling from baltimore. Thank you for waiting. Caller good morning. I am 89 years old and was in korea for the last three months of the war. I was in the signal corps as an intercept Radio Operator 10 miles behind the line. One of the things i remember is that also, i was stationed right alongside the highway leading north. And, all day long, fresh troops were being trucked north. And, all night long, there were ambulances coming south. That i do remember. Now, two questions and i wasnt close enough to the line to be shot at, but i could see the flashes in the sky and hear the rumble from, i guess, the bombing and the artillery. My first question is what was the relationship between north and south korea before the invasion . And you did just talk about the syngman rhee dictatorship. What role did he play in, maybe, having the invasion get started . Host can you stay on the line . We will get a response, but i want to followup with you. Can you be with us for a moment or two . Hermann, please stay on the line. Charles hanley . As far as syngman rhee, it is very interesting. One of my characters is a north korean general, the operations chief for the north korean army. And i follow him, the reader follows him through the war. And he learned, late in the war, about the genesis of the war. He learned from an old comrade of his, who happened to be kim ilsungs russian interpreter. He was told that, in march of 1949, kim ilsung went to moscow and proposed to joseph stalin, who, of course, was the sponsor or the supplier of the communist nations in asia, the chinese coming us and north korea and others, that kim ilsung wanted to invade and reunify. Invade the south and reunify. Stalin was extremely cautious about this, because he was worried about the americans. The American Army, the occupation army, was still in korea, and he said that was not a good idea. Also, he pointed out to kim syngman rhee, the south korean president , seems very eager to invade you, to invade the north. So, why dont you just let him do that, and then the whole world will support what you are doing in defense, and then you can just take over all of korea. And stalin indicated he would support him in that case. Well, general yu, my character, learned as well, after that, stalin told kim to go back and never raise the issue of invasion again. But then the American Army pulled out of south korea, and in addition, the chinese communists won the civil war in china in 1949, october of 1949. And so, the conditions on the ground were changing. In addition, the soviet union had developed its own atomic bomb to match the americans. And so at that point, in april of 1950, stalin gave kim ilsung the goahead for the invasion. But it turns out that just two weeks before, or 10 days before the invasion, john foster dulles, the special envoy of president truman, was in korea, assessing the situation. Wassyngman rhee, even then, begging him to allow him to invade north korea. Dulles told him no, because the Truman Administration was very leery of starting a war with the soviet union. And so, even at that stage, and, as i have said earlier, there was skirmishing along the border, half of which, lets say, had to be blamed had to be the doing of the south. And, perhaps, the other half the north. But they were fighting each other for a couple of years before this fullscale invasion occurred. Know, you were there the last three months. And we think of the action in the war really taking place in the first year, from the invasion in june to the following spring, when it was such a backandforth up and down the peninsula, the chinese entering the war, etc. But the final two years were quite a bloody, grinding, trench warfare type of war. And i am not surprised to hear that you would hear trucks going north troops and the ambulances coming south, even that late in the war. In fact, the chinese launched a gigantic offensive as punishment to syngman rhee, for the things he was doing, just within months of the end of the war. And there was always, during those days, an attempt to gain new an one inch more territory. And so there was a lot of patrolling and small attacks and sniping, etc. , going on, and casualties continued day by day. Host hermann, let me go back to you. Are you still with us . Caller yes. Host so you were 19 years old at the time. What was going through your mind as you left the u. S. , traveled to korea, and became part of this conflict . What were you thinking personally . Caller well, i was in college and not doing well. I was at the university of north carolina. And, after my junior year, i dropped out. And i had no choice either be drafted or enlist in the army. They said if i enlisted, i would not have to go to korea. [laughter] but i enlisted for three years, and i ended up there anyway. I was totally nonpolitical. You know, i was you say 19 years old or whatever, i just had to do what i had to do. That was it. I never thought about the war in particular. Host hermann, thanks for calling from baltimore, maryland. A veteran of the korean war. Lets go to james next, whos joining us from michigan. Good morning. Caller good morning. Thank you for the book. My question is, in 1968, i was stationed based in japan when ceased the ussns play blow and shut down the ticket plant. I met my wife of 51 years, who was born in kaesong, north korea in 1949. Over the years, i had concluded she would not have been in south korea if General Macarthur had not disobeyed orders of host we are losing you. Caller if you could comment on the number of refugees who were able to get out of north korea. As a result of macarthurs disobedience. Host thank you. Making reference to his own wife, whom he met in 1968. Your response . Caller i am sorry, i did not count all of that. But he mentioned kaesong, his wife being from kaesong. This is a very interesting and said situation. Kaesong, actually and thats spelled kaesong, in english, was also in south korea in the war and was much for over during the war. But, in the end, with the demarcation line, it ended up in north korea. And kaesong is an old capital, Royal Capital of the old korea. And now you may know that kaesong is also the center for the interkorean cooperation, whenever it does happen. There is an Industrial Park had south korean industry for some years, no longer, shut down, hopefully temporarily. South korean industries, north korean workers introduced to production. But the whole refugee story is just one of the great tragedies of the 20th century, the korean refugee story. It is estimated that 10 million koreans were separated from their immediate family members. From their immediate family. And my featured individuals, my characters, have many examples of this. One is a young medical student from north korea who dodged the draft by the north once the war broke out. He was supposed to be drafted, but his grandmother hid him away. And then, eventually, with all of this backandforth over the territory of north and south korea, he gets evacuated to south korea by sea and is then pressed into the south korean army. So when he left the north this is when the chinese entered, and the south korean army and the American Army had moved to deep into north korea, including past his hometown, and he thought, korea will now be unified. And then he returned from his hospital she was a medical student he was a medical student he returned from his hospital duty one day and sees the south korean army marching south. And he asked a military policeman what is going on, and he says, this is just a technical retreat, young man. For three days. So he goes home and tells his mother, i better leave. Because im a draft evader. I should leave, but i will be back in three days. And this is just such a typical example. He never saw his mother again. This was in late 1950. And this young medical student survived as a soldier in the south korean army. And went through some very hairraising experiences. And went on to medical school in the south and eventually emigrated to california and became a wellknown cardiologist in california and was finally able to return to north korea in the 1980s, but, by then, his mother had died. The mother he told he would be back in three days. And, as i say, there are so many stories, so many heartbreaking stories a family that thought they were temporarily separated and then find out it is for the rest of their lives. Anotheris yet littleknown, little explored area of this great, tragic war. Host chronicled in the upcoming new book titled ghost flames life death in a hidden war, korea 195053. This,the figure in all of park sun yung. Can you explain . Guest she was a young mother in central south korea. Of 1950. They moved down the road and the regiment made them leave the road and very quickly american planes bombed this. Many were killed in this attack. Many fled under a nearby concrete railroad bridge. The troops of the seventh cavalry regiment proceeded to machinegun these people. This was not confirmed until half a century later in 1999. She lost her two children. Her twoyearold girl was killed fairly immediately in the tunnel and the next night she tried to escape, park sunyoung, with her fouryearold boy and as the sun rose an american soldier shot at them pointblank. They could clearly see it was a mother and child. Killed the boy and badly wounded her. As with the inconsistencies of war the americans took our away to an Army Hospital and she recuperated. She had been separated from her husband who left earlier and gone farther south. It took weeks before they could reunite and try to make a new life back in their home village. Let me make one final point because we only have about one minute left. This is another individual involved in the war, the korean war resulted in the integration of the armed forces, and james sharp reflecting on what he remembered from the conflict. I have a photograph of that. I looked at it and i am the only africanamerican in my platoon. That would have been 120 people. 120 . I was the only africanamerican. When we arrived in fox company, second battalion, seventh marine we had 5. Two of them were two of whom were killed. At one time we spent 83 days on line, which was an exceptional amount of time to be online. While youre onlirningse youre defending the trench line, but youre also out on patrol every night in front of you to cross your own barbed wire, cross your own minefields and go out and go out into the open areas in front of the line in order to protect it. From the Korean War Legacy Foundation, and again, joining from us florida is Charles Hanley. Bottom line, with only a half a minute left, what is the legacy of that conflict . Well, it clearly is the simple fact that 38 parallel on the peninsula is probably the most tense, explosive piece of war on the road still, and we have a Nuclear North Korea at this point, as pointed earlier, essentially at the rufflet war, and they need to establish a deterrent, and we have an american port, American Allied force in the south as well, and it simply remains a tinderbox that we see almost every day along with the 38th parallel north and south. But also, it changed the United States into a permanently militarized nation. We fought many wars after that, first time the korean war establishing a precedent for everyone thats followed, and it still is not the original piece, were still at war technically on the peninsula, and so it really was a watershed moment in American History and global history. A Pulitzer Prizewinning reporter for the associated press, his book ghost flames life and death in a hidden war, korea 19501953, thank you very very much for joining us on washington journal and on American History tv. Thank you. You are watching American History tv all weekend every weekend on cspan3. The korean war began 70 years ago. It ended with an armistice agreement. About three years later in july 1953. Next, an oral history interview with veteran allen clark, recorded in fallbrook, california in 2015. He talks about his experiences serving two tours in korea with the u. S. Marine corps. Now a teacher in fullerton, california, she conducted the interview with the Korean War Legacy Foundation. It was underwritten by south koreas ministry of patriots and veterans affairs. My name is allen d. Clark. My age is 92. My birthday is 10 september, 1923. And where were you born . You will where and was iwill you born . I was born in virginia. Will you tell me brief information about your family . Where did your family come from . Well, they are primarily from