Transcripts For CSPAN3 First Ladies Influence Image - Eliza Johnson 20240712

It was used as a place to stay and it was basically destroyed. Eliza being ill with tuberculosis wasnt able to get out much. Eliza received many gifts she brought her to. This was the room she returned to after years in the white house . She was obscure, as she probably would have wanted it, but shes who he needed. Abraham lincolns assassination just weeks after the warravaged nation and brought Andrew Johnson and andrews wife e lizza was thrust into being the first lady and reconstruction in the south and his own impeachment. This week on cspans first ladies, the life and times of Eliza Johnson. Good evening and thank you for being with us. As we learn per about Eliza Johnson let me introduce you to our two guests who will help us do that. Jacqueline berger is in the midst of midst a threevolume series and she joins us from her home in southern california. Kendra hinkle is a greenville, tennessee, native as Andrew Johnson is and longtime employee of the National Park service and serves as a Museum Technician at the Andrew Johnson National Historic site and thanks for being with us tonight. Jacqueline, we will start with setting the scene. The country had lost president s before through natural death and this was the first assassination. So what was it like in washington, d. C. , the capital and in the white house . Was it an orderly transition or chaos or something in between . As you can well imagine, susan. In the beginning it was disbelief and they being not believe that it happened and secretary stanton took charge immediately and he decided that the president was going to be a funeral in the east room and he went ahead and had, i believe, that johns name was major french set up the funeral and do everything for it and he went into work immediately to elaborate, you know, this most beautiful funeral for the president and unfortunately the first lady was upstairs constantly in tears and in mourning. They were building this beautiful setting for this funeral and they were banging and hammering and all night long she would call downstairs and ask them to please stop because she thought gunshots were going off inside the white house. So it was pretty terrifying for her. Well, to the transition in government, how is it, Kendra Hinkle, that a republican president ended up with a southern democrat as a Vice President . A unique situation. In one sense, Abraham Lincoln was trying to appeal to a broader segment of the population and in another sense, i think he was making good on a second inaugural to bind at the nations wounds so he was trying to bring the north and south back together again because johnson was a southerner. He was a democrat and intensely loyal to the union and he was the only senator who retained his seat when the other senators from the south left and hed spent time as tennessees military governor restoring a Union Government there and freed the slaves in tennessee while he was military governor. How prepared was he for the job of president . He had held nearly every Political Office that you can hold on the rise to the presidency. It was just a completely different situation going in after lincolns assassination and just a very chaotic time. But in pack, the new president s graciousness toward mary lingeron made it difficult for him in his transition. How did that all work . It was difficult in the beginning and mary was upstairs in total hourning and she remained there for six weeks so the new president was gracious enough to not set up his office in the white house so that he could give her time to make the adjustment and it was pretty difficult on him and in the very beginning he was obviously shaken to the core and he started to get into action very quickly and he was prepared to take over the presidency. Where did he work at the time, and at the Treasury Department and his wife was not here. In what were his early days like . Do you know how quickly he assumed his control of the country. At one point it was tumultuous because high had the grand review shall the lincoln trials and it was his golden hour because congress wasnt his session and he tried to implement the variations of lincolns very lenient plan of restoration for the south. There were still in the early days skirmishes going on in the civil war. Im sure there were, but that was hardly settled in a lot of peoples minds, and the taking over this job at this particular time in this city. He had a cabinet that he inherited thats correct. What were his challenges . He made the decision to keep the cabinet. He said this is what i have and im going to live with it the best i can and he discovered that may not have been the best decision for himself because he was constantly struggling with them. They thought for sure he would go ahead and have more of a harsher stance on the south and johnson did not. He had a very lenient opinion of how he wanted the south and the north to get back together so he had a very, very difficult time with congress, with the senate. We used tumultuous in many of the weeks of the series, but these four weeks in particular seemed to deserve the description. Here are some of the highlights of the first years he spent in office. In 1865, his first year the 13th amendment was ratified and those of you will remember that was the great fight. In 1865 vetoes the office act which led to his impeachment and suspended secretary Edwin Stanton and in 1868 the 14th amendment to the constitution was ratified and that was one of the reconstruction amendments and among other things it had a citizen overturned and as we mentioned his impeachment proceedings were held and thats just a look at the kinds of things the Johnson Family had to deal with. Did he have a Vice President . No. Was there any provision for selecting a Vice President at that point . No. And if if the impeachment had resulted in conviction the presidency would have gone to the president pro them of the senate. So lets move on to eliza and her story. So eliza arrives when . It was probably four months later that she finally came with her family. They had set up a situation where she took care of the home and took care of the finances and her life was pretty well set and the fact that her husband became president and didnt change things instantaneously, but she did follow. She did bring her entire family with her. Of course, she had two daughters and one was married and had two children of her own and her other daughter was now a widow at this point and brought her three children with her and it was very, very crowded upstairs in the white house and we do know that eliza was invalid when she got to the white house, but people think that she, in fact, didnt participate much and that isnt exactly true. She was very, very involved and she set up her own bedroom upstairs right across from the president s office basically and she was able to hear always going on and she was very active and she read daily newspapers and brought different points of view to the president and was able to calm him down constantly and of course, she was the grandmother of the house as well as taking care of her daughters and her grandchildren. Her Health Status is what she discussed and the only known Public Statement which we have on screen is my dears, i am an invalid. After making it, what did she do . She went upstairs and her face showed interest and no enthusiasm and another quote attributed to her is i do not like this public life at all and ill be happy when were back where i feel we best belong. What was the source of her best problems . Consumption, tuberculosis. Her health seems to have weakened after the birth of her last season which was 18 years younger than his brothers and sisters and by 1860 there are many references to Mothers Health in letters. Here is our first question for our viewers and before i take it i want to remind you if you are you. To the series, the best thing about it is your paris pagz. You can also send us a message on twitter using the firstladies and as a third choice, go to cspans Facebook Page and we have a conversation already under way with questions from viewers around the country and well try to mix a number of those in throughout the 90minute program. Gary asked the question was eliza concerned about her husbands safety after the lincoln a saassassination . His life was in danger when he was a senator because he, in fact, did not want his state to succeed from the union and so he himself was considered a traitor and oftentimes his life was in danger and of course, when the president was assassinated she was absolutely terrified. Her daughter and one of her daughters wrote her father when they were in the white house, and she said mother is deranged that you would be assassinated. So she was extremely worried about it. What was the reason for her worry other than the general atmosphere in washington. Some suggest that there was, in fact, part of the overall plot, someone assigned to kill johnson. And he had some heavy drink before hand and lost his nerve. He did stalk the Vice President. He was stalking him that whole day and he was planning to assassinate him that night and he did. He went out and had too much to drink, lost his nerve and thankfully did not follow through on his plans. Is there any historic documentation about how the president reacted to the threats on his life . You know, i have never heard any. We just know that grave concern for lincoln took priority and people tried to tell him not to go to the Peterson House that night himself because of all of the danger out there and he went anyway. The Peterson House was where the president was taken when he was shot and he was told to stay away in case there were more threats of their lives. Because news was coming in of seward being attacked and they knew this was an attack on highranking, government officials. It was not the first time in history. There was an a sass nation attempt on George Washingtons life and many other president s. I think they lived with that fact and hair retruman said it just goes with the territory and you need to go about your business and do what you need to do. President ial on twitter, did they have any relationship with mary lincoln . Not to my knowledge. She stayed at home quite a bit. Its not like she traveled to washington. Oftentimes other wives did travel to washington and spent time with their spouse and eliza didnt, she did not have a relationship at all. My understanding, as well. Eliza did come to washington for a couple of months, but ill health forced her back home. You describe a very active public floor in the white house even though the public didnt see Eliza Johnson and the centerpiece room for the family is whats today called the yellow oval room which was turned into the library by a former first lady. We have a photograph of what we are showing it today. What was their personal life like at the white house . They were an extremely closeknit family and the grandchildren adored both grandparents and they were very, very close and oftentimes whether they were doing studying or with tutors theyd always come back in and visit their grandmother and the president spent his mornings visiting with her to do his business and everything seemed to revolve around liza. Jenny webber on facebook is asking, can you tell us more about her two daughter and they helped her as roll. . Martha was the official hostes and mary supported her back and forth to greenville. She was like her mother, i think, preferred to be with the children. My understanding is when she was at the white house she was responsible for a lot of their education and training. She did step in with her sister, but they didnt like the public life. The entire family didnt care for it at all and by that time, she, too, herself was a widow. Shed lost her husband in the civil war. So that was difficult on her, as well, having three children and being a widow herself. What did it mean to be official hostess in the Johnson White house . There was a period of mourning. It definitely was and that says a lot about eliza. Even though it was a state of mourning and of course, the war had just totally ravaged the white house completely and i cant describe in what disarray, was there mold in the state dining room and lice in the rooms and the carpeting was filthy and it gave martha a couple of months while congress was not in session to get the house cleaned up and she scrubbed it down from top to bottom and was astute to that, and then they would have levies on thursday nights. Which is a tradition weve seen all of the way through from the washington administration. Thats in many cases for how it is. Martha washington set the role and many of them followed along with it and it was johnsons intention to have the common man and the Common People come to the house. He didnt want to have such formal dinners where they were by written invitation, but more inviting people to come in on a regular basis and just see the president s home, the peoples house. Just in that note, to capture the johnsons approach to it, this quote from martha johnson. Mary lincoln was criticized southboundly in the press for her extravagance and how did the nation respond . Saying were plain folks and well respond in many ways. I think people were craving that war to know people who had suffered like they had and who were not going to bes on 10 tas tashs, but were respectful. That was one of the things that martha did first thing in the morning. She was go downstairs and supervise the dairy operation and shed come back and have ann of the state floors, the downstairs make sure everything was in order. But, yes, they did. They werent obviously the first family that brought animals to the white house with them. They did bring their own cows. Were the johnsons very religious and did their view change over time with the war and assassinations . Mrs. Johnson attended church. Johnson did not because i think there was vague lines between politics and religion a lot of time at that time period. We do have a letter when he thought he was dying of cholera in the 1870s where hes done his duty and by god and his nation and he is at peace. And so, it shows that while not practicing at a church in particular, he was still a religious man. And before we leave this life in the early days of the white house, tell us more about how the white house ended up in such a state. Mrs. Lincoln spent a lot of money and was criticized for refurnishing. That is true. After the president passed away, she went upstairs and she was there for six weeks. But the white house was still open to the public. As soon as the doors opened in the morning until literally they have to push the public out at night, people were constantly coming through. There was a tremendous amount of traffic. And there was a lot of vandalism also. They wanted little pieces of the carpeting or their drapery and they would take pieces of fabric. China was missing. And it was just in disarray. Also during the war years, theres a lot of people coming through the white house. Where was the security . The security wasnt paying much attention. And i think part of it is, number one, they didnt really know or maybe have enough support to go in and Say Something about it. Either they didnt feel like they had enough control or they just didnt chose not to. And thats where the confusion came in. Mrs. Lincoln was upstairs. The president , was, of course, not in the white house. So for about six weeks it was just run a muck actually. Congress recognized this and gave the family a 30,000 appropriation, which is a lot more money than the lincolns got. How did the johnsons use that money in the white house . Very carefully. Martha oversaw every cent. She refurbished furniture. She would take up strips of carpet, have it cleaned. If it was a smaller section still good, put it in a different area. So, she took down the wallpapers and she just had guilt decor put up that was simple but very elegant. And again, the official washington maybe even the larger country must have reacted well to this after the lincolns. I think they did. Number one, they were very simple people. And i think even Washington Society appreciated that. They oftentimes said that they were dressed simply but elegantly. And i think what martha did, she did a lot with flowers. And she made slip covers for the furniture as opposed to reapollstering it. I think they respected her thifttyness. One of the rooms she particularly refurbished ones on the state floor and referenced with official events the blue room and also the famous east room. One of the traditions i understand that she created was by finding portraits of past president s and bringing them into the white house. That is correct. What did she do there . Well, many times when a family moves into the white house, they just stay on either the public floors or the private floors. Martha went down into the basement. She went up into the attic. She was all over. She found these portraits. They werent framed but she did show them to her father and her father thought it was a great idea to frame these portraits and hang them up. President johnson loved to walk through the walls with individuals and refer to a president and tell a story about that. And one other thing i wanted to mention about the thriftiness. Eliza said when her husband kept going off to whether it be congress on the senate, she said i remained at home caring for the children and practicing economy. So, thats where she learned it from, martha. I said margaret it was martha. Those president ial paintings remained there. They become part of the white house and one of the more iconic, you see movies about the white house, you often see the first family walking down with all the president ial portraits its called the cross hall in the state floor and that began with the johnson administration. Well, during this program youre going to see videos from the johnson National Park and National Historic site in greeneville, tennessee, which is where our guest Kendra Hinkle has worked for quite a long time. Were going to start with one that shows the white house artifacts from the museum. Before we look at it, how many do you have in the collection from the white house . Is it a big white house collection . I would say a dozen to two dozen things from the white house administration. They were allowed to bring them home in those days. Qualify that before we go on. So you got them from the family collection. Uhhuh. Three generations of the family lived in the house after andrew and eliza. The great granddaughter lived there until 1956. They realized its importance and really wanted it to become a National Historic site. We have about 85 of the original belongings inside the house. Were going to now see some of the white house collection and our guest Kendra Hinkle will be in this video in her uniform, so well take a look. In this case, we have artifacts relating to Andrew Johnsons presidency and beyond. We have one of elizas necklaces, which is a plain black cross, which i think shows her very simplistic taste. Another is her sewing case. And three of her favorite past times being as reclusive as she was were embroidery work, reading poetry and scrapbooking. On the broader sense, they did receive political gifts while in the white house, and we have an ivory basket which came from queen emma of the sandwich islands which are now the hawaiian islands. That was the first time that a queen had come to visit the white house. Andrew johnson was the first president to have the easter egg roll on the white house lawn. Previously it had been held at the capitol. And it has sort of stopped during the civil war, but he brought it back. Some theories hold that he held it on the white house lawn so eliza could watch, being ill and invalid with tuberculosis, she wasnt able to get out much and she ended up watching the easter egg roll from the portico in the white house. During the white house years, eliza chose not to assume the role of the first lady. She was very ill at that point. But during those times, she received many gifts that she brought home with her after they left the white house. One of the most spectacular is this porcelain box that was given to her by the noble frenchman and it had 50 pounds of chocolate bonbons in it. And we have in the letters from some of her children saying that they would go up to moms room in the white house to get a treat from the bonbon box. Another item that she brought back was a remembrance of a visit. That was of Charles Dickens who in 1867 would come visit them at the white house. She returned and brought back one of his books. She was an avid reader and this gave her a chance to remember her visit and Charles Dickens as we know today is one of the most prolific writers of that time period. Another item that she brought back was a gaming table that was given to them by the people of ireland. Its 500 pieces of inlaid wood and they would play games like yuker which we still play today. Sits up, rolls up and looks like a regular table when you open it up but the craftsmanship is remarkable. Another piece that goes back to them in the white house is the fruit container. That was a gift from the children of philadelphia when they were in the white house. And eliza brought that back home with her when they returned. And on twitter, michael wants to know, aside from queen emmas visit in 1866, did any other royals from the kingdom of hawaii visit the white house . Not to my knowledge. Huhuh. Our first telephone call is from abraham watching us in huntsville, alabama. Hi, abraham, youre on. Hello. How are yall. Thank you for taking my call. I just think this program is so great because we studied so much about the president s but hearing about the president s wives has been fantastic. But my question is, i know that Eliza Johnson was educated and i wanted to know what kind of books and writings eliza was interested in the most. And also another question i had was what was the highest level of education that Eliza Johnson had . Okay. Thanks. Do you know her education . Most sources say about through the eighth grade. There was a female branch of ray academy in greenville where tradition holds that she went to school. And we still have some of the books that eliza had, one arithmetic and one grammar she used to tutor Andrew Johnson in the early days of their marriage. Do you know more about her reading as first lady, by any chance . Well, she read lots of things. She loved reading the newspaper and the constitutional papers that came out. She certainly read all of her husbands speeches and assisted him with that. She loved poetry. So, it was a very broad range. And she you mentioned this earlier, but she loved to read the newspapers and acted as almost a clipping service for her husband. Yes, that was one of the other things she loved to do was clip things out of the newspaper. Her husband was a great order. She wanted to make sure he had some good talking points. She would read multiple newspapers and nothing missed her eye. When ever she caught something she thought her husband might be able to use on a speech the next time, she would bring it to his attention. Excuse me. Next up is the call from john in tampa, florida. Hi, john, welcome to our conversation. Hi, good evening. And thank you for this program. Just listening to what you were saying just now regarding how interested the first lady was in current events, apparently from the newspaper reading, how much influence did she have over the president and his policies . Particularly as they relate to things like the reconstruction. Thank you. Well, she clipped things for him. She helped him with his speeches, but do we know if she was an influence on his policies . I think she was a very good calming effect on him. She was able to just go over and touch his shoulder. We do know that Andrew Johnson had a pretty good temper and oftentimes it would show in his conversations. And she was able to calm him down. We really dont know how much what necessarily her opinions were because she only shared them with him in private. Which many first ladies do, as you might suspect. But i do know that she did listen to her periodically, as well as her daughter. And ask advice. I dont know how much he listened it to. But he would certainly ask their opinion. As i mentioned throughout the program, were going to be returning to the johnson National Historic site. And we have a few different pieces of video. As we look at them, Kendra Hinkle, how is this site preserved . Its really quite a large place in the center of a small town. So what do you have there . And how are you interpreting his life . We have four different areas, include the museum at the Visitors Center along with the old tailer shop which is where he began his political rise, so to speak. The early home, which was their home from the 1830s and 40s and the larger homestead, a couple of blocks away, which they lived in before and after the presidency. And then we also have the national cemetery, where the family is buried. And how extensive is your collection of papers . So, for example, would you be able to research through their writings whether or not she helped influence his policies . You can. We have a collection. Theres also the Andrew Johnson museum and library at college and there are some papers there as well. Unfortunately the letters between andrew and eliza were burned later by the family. So, we really dont have that interaction between them to realize how much she might have influenced him, but he did visit her in the white house every morning after breakfast and we have a silver chafing dish in our collection that was supposedly used in the white house. She would keep a tea or bite warm to eat in the evenings he would come visit her as well. How frustrating to hear about the burning of the letters. Martha washington started that. Another twitter question, did eliza make friends outside the family . My understanding is that she did. She was a very friendly person. Initially historians thought she only came downstairs two different times during the entire administration. We discovered later on thats not entirely accurate. In fact, it was ulysses s. Grants wife julia who wrote and said after the state dinners that the first lady would, in fact, come downstairs. She didnt stay for the state dinner but she would come down and have coffee and literally walk around and talk to all of the guests. She was extremely gracious. They said she was always dressed very eloquently and very appropriately. So i think she did make friends. She was just a very kind person. And when they left washington, there were people who called on her to say goodbye and say that they had fond remembrances of her. And thank you her, too. Uhhuh. Throughout this series we have been learning about the role of women in society so this question comes under that category from Shelden Cooper on twitter. Would we classify eliza a political equal or superior to her husband . Well, colonel crooks said she had great appreciation for his office in that she may have had greater appreciation than he did being that she was so well read and so well learned. Well, now its time to learn about how the johnsons became a couple. Were going to return to the johnson Historic Site and learn about their early years together in this video. We are standing inside the Memorial Building at the Andrew Johnson National Historic site, seeing Andrew Johnsons old tail lor shop. He bought the shop at public auction in the early days when he and eliza were first married. And he used it as his place of business. Eliza would read to him in the shop while he worked, making suits for the men of town. These are some of the books that eliza used to tutor Andrew Johnson with in the early days of their marriage. This one is the teachers assistant with a system of practical arithmetic. The other one is a grammar book entitled english grammar. To different classes of learners. And it speaks a lot for andrew and eliza that they kept these books knowing the historic import that they had on their lives and his future career. This is the earliest existing house that we still have for andrew and eliza. They lived here through the 1830s and 1840s until he traded this home for a later homestead in 1851. Its here they start their family and they eventually have five children all together. As johnson works in the tailer shop, he has a knack for debate, he becomes interested in politics. Eliza supports him as he first becomes an alderman of the town and then a mayor. And perhaps even though eliza had married a tailer and that was all she was expecting from life, perhaps she did some entertaining in this room as he started his political journey. This likely would have been the kitchen or eating area of the home. Andrew and eliza did purchase their first slaves while they lived in this house. They bought dolly in 1842 and a few days later also purchased her half brother sam. They would have helped eliza with chores raising the children, cutting the firewood and cooking the meals. This is the house where they got their start. This is where they put their roots down in the community. This is where he had a thriving business as a tailor. This is where they first entertained as he started into politics. This is the house where their children were born. This households a very special place in the lives of the couple. And once again, i would encourage you if you get to that part of the country make a visit to greeneville, tennessee to see the life of the Johnson Family as the federal government has preserved it through the National Park service. Well, she has the distinction in the history books as being the youngest bride. Yes, absolutely. How old was she . She was 16. To Andrew Johnsons 18. They were a very, very young couple. As legend has it, you know, i always thought that her life story would make a wonderful made for tv movie. She was a young girl. She was standing outside school one day talking with some friends and Andrew Johnson comes in to town and legend is that she is the first person he sees. Hes asking for directions and she makes a comment to her girlfriends that is her beau. Within a year they did marry. She was 16 years of age, he was 18. They had four children every two years. I believe she had four children by the time she was 24 years of age. But she proved to be a wonderful homemaker and a very, very good businesswoman as well. She took care of all of their finances. And it was said she would read to her husband in the tailor shop. In fact, she herself was a great seamstre seamstress. She lost her father, some historians think when she was quite young. Others say she was probably early teens. She came from a poor family. She and her mother helped support themselves by making quilts and sewing sandals, things of that nature. She had appreciation for what her husband did and she would constantly, constantly read to him. From these humble roots, they really became rather successful. So, where did the entrepreneurial spirit come from and which of the two of them was responsible for it . I think it was a combination. The tailor shop soon became the sort of hangout spot for men where they debated students in town after johnson started attending debating called him who was a creek orator who had learned from the great speeches of previous orators which summed Andrew Johnson up entirely. He had a book called the american speaker. And one of its desires it said in the preface to teach the callow young to plead their countrys calls with lips of fire. And i just think that inspired him to the point where he just wanted to break away from life as he had known it being such a struggle into something greater. But he had a gift. He had a gift for oratory. Very much. It was this interest in oratory, which as i understand it, eliza encouraged. Very much so. Found debating societies for him to take part in so that he could polish his skills, but that was his foray into politics, isnt it . That is exactly correct. You know, some people say that she really taught him how to read and write. That is not exactly true. Andrew johnson knew his abcs but she was very, very helpful in helping him form his letters and improve his writing skills. That was one of the things she, in fact, learned in school. She did encourage him to go to debating classes. That was something they did oftentimes, you know, they would have people come into the tailor shop and talk about politics and debate different issues. Here is jesse watching us in san diego. Youre on. Yes. I was wondering after the assassination of lincoln, did they make sure that johnson was heavily protected so that Something Like that wouldnt happen again . And then, his wife ever go out in public . Thank you very much. Akin to that, ken ruben on facebook, can you describe what role the new secret service played in the Johnson White house . Was that a response to create a sort of early secret service . My understanding is the secret Service Began with Abraham Lincoln. Im not aware of anything that they tightened up, you know, more stringent than anything else. Eliza did get out. Theres no question about that. Unlike today, she wasnt going shopping, she wasnt going to the market, but she did have various travels with her children into various spots. Sometimes it was for her Health Purposes and of course she was very concerned about her sons. Both of her sons had problems with alcohol. And so she was very, very worried about that. Tom is in greece, new york. Hi, tom, youre on. Oh, tom, you have to turn the it have volutv volume down. Are you is there . Ken in pennsylvania. Youre on, ken. Hi. I would like to know how the hamlin white house would have differed from the Johnson White house . How the hamlin white house would have been different . Do either of you have a sense of how he was as Vice President and what would have happened if he ascended to the white house. I dont. Im sorry. Interesting question. So back to the johnsons. How did eliza contract the tuberculosis that would eventually have her become an invalid . Its hard to know. It was rampant at that time because they didnt realize it was contagious. Even the grandchildren visiting her daily in the white house, it would take its toll on them as well. How early in her life did she contract it . Hard to say. Could be after the birth of andrew jr. Certainly by the beginning of the 1860s it was clear that she was suffering from consumption. And how often was andrew away as he became more interested in politics . Considerably. He was away quite a bit. And thats why another reason why so much of the responsibility fell on eliza. I also read different stories that she, in fact, was good at selling and buying stocks. Here they came from these very, very humble, Humble Beginnings and they owned realize. They owned other property. She would go ahead and collect the rents from these properties. And basically manage the money very, very effectively. And could you walk us through his political career . Where did he start . Alderman, mayor, served as state representative, state senator, governor, u. S. Representative, u. S. Senator, military governor, Vice President and president and then hes the only president to this day to return to the senate. And what were his how would you describe his politics . What did it mean for him to be a democrat at that point . Well, democrats and republicans have sort of reversed as the years have gone by. He was very much of a physical conservative, limited government, more of the decisions being made by the states. And again, we have no record of other than the scrapbooks that she kept where she was clipping things i would imagine of what her own politics were. No, unfortunately we dont. We do know that Andrew Johnson definitely believed in states right. There was no question about that. He was always putting bills forth for the common man. I know that was very, very important to him. He didnt care for the aristocrats. He didnt necessarily care for the very rich planters as he referred to them. And he wanted it was basically the blood, sweat and tears of the common man that she was trying to help support quite a bit. Bill in san diego. Yeah. I know m. S. Berger written on first ladies. Ive always wondered was the fact that mrs. Lincoln was so distraught set a precedent for other widows . No. No, actually thats not the case at all. There are a couple of other women that, of course, lost their husbands during the presidency. Garfield happened to be one of them. And she was just the opposite of Mary Todd Lincoln. She handled herself extremely graciously. She moved out of the white house almost instantaneously and Jackie Kennedy handled herself with great poise and great sophistication. So, no, i wouldnt say that Mary Todd Lincoln set that example at all. Ben, what is known of elizas parents, and did she have any siblings . No siblings. She didnt have any siblings, we do know that. She had a widowed mother that raised her by herself. John mccardle was a shoe maker. Still have the boot shingle for his business at the Andrew Johnson museum and library and he also opened a tavern in the town of warrensberg, tennessee, as well. We referenced scrapbooks. I think we saw one in the video but denise wants to know do any of her scrapbooks exist . Ill change it to how many . We have one. Its on display at the house. I pulled it out for the show. Thats generated a lot of interest by the public. What kinds of things did she collect . She collected newspaper articles primarily about her husband. She would show him some in the evenings, some in the morning depending on the tone. We were all in the age of photography by this point. Did she collect any photographs . No photographs in there. But a pardon. Political badges and things of that nature . Theres a blank pardon. That Andrew Johnson was pardoning people as president. So, but primarily newspaper articles. Next up is mary in omaha. Hi, mary. Hi. Thank you for taking my call. We were just wondering, we noticed that i wondered if the natural surroundings and original area around the homes have been changed . The roads seem to go right up to the door. Were the roads widened at one time or did the homes back then sit that close to the street . They sat that close to the street. It was right on main street. And i have heard tell that it was very much a scott irish follow through and many of the people in that area were of scott irish decent. Bringing what they knew from ireland and scotland to be right in the center of town and to be right on the streets. How much land did they have at the site . Well r, he had two acres wit the yard now. But even as the later family lived there, they would buy pieces as they came up for sell to make a buffer around the property. Kim alicia writes on facebook, i was fascinated that eliza taught andrew to read and write and was no doubt influential on his politics. Do we have any evidence of eliza trying to reform president johnson of his purported drunkenness. You told us one of the sons died of alcoholism. That is correct. What was the president s relationship with alcohol . He was not a drunk. Unfortunately that was he got that reputation because when he was assigned or inaugurated as Vice President , he had, i believe, it was typhoid fever at that time and he was pretty down, he was low. He was trying to get himself, give himself a little bit of energy so he had some whiskey on that day. By the time he got up to give his inaugural speech he was slurring his words and people thought he, in fact, was drunk. But he was not. President lincoln knew that. In fact, the story is people were not willing to let the truth get in the way of a nasty rumor. So, he was not an alcoholic although his sons were. Leroy in monticello, kentucky. Hi, youre on. Appreciate your conversation here. This is mighty good. Did Andrew Johnson and his wife, were they both did either one of them become born again christians before they died and left this world . Okay. Thanks. We talked about their religion earlier, but would you answer. Right. When johnson thought he was dying of cholera, he did write a letter, sort of making his peace. And eliza was a church goer there in greeneville. Next up in janet asking us a question from tucson. Hi, janet. Hi. Yes, mary lincoln had such a tragic time with her children. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about the johnsons children and if there are any descendants now. Thank you. Thank you. Good question. I know she had wonderful relationship with her children and her grandchildren. I dont know if theres any descendants that are still alive now. There are a few. Great, great, great. And they all come through martha, the only one who has any descents. Right. Before we move into the civil war, in the video, we saw that they were slave holders. And essex in orange is asking on twitter, is there any indication about eliza felt about slavery or had she ever expressed any ideas about it . What can you tell us about the familys ownership of slaves and how their thinking progressed about this and what happened eventual to those people. The johnsons had a pretty lenient relationship with their slaves. We have a letter that charles, one of the sons wrote, talking about elizas relationship with sam. He came for payment for a job that he had done and she told him he needed to cut wood at the pattersons house first, which was martha. he said he would be damned if he cut wood at pattersons. He hadnt been paid for the last thing. She said he would do better to give than receive and he didnt get half enough know how. It shows three things. One, this lenient relationship. Two, that they paid their slaves for jobs they had done. Three, that eliza was in charge of the finances. Later on, august 8th, 1863, johnson is day that johnson freed his slaves. To this day in tennessee and surrounding states that is still celebrated as emancipation day. And do we know what became of them . They all stayed on as paid servants. They all took the last name of johnson. They all took the last name of johnson. Dolly eventually baked and sold pies out of the shop. She started her own business. Sam wrote president johnson at one point asking to buy land for purposes of a church and schoolhouse for the africanamerican children there in greeneville and johnson wrote back and said, no. Just have the plot of land drawn up and ill give it to you. So, he started that there in greeneville for them and eventually gave sam land and he built his own house there in greeneville. Well, the most challenging time for this family had to be the war years. Johnson was in the senate at this point. You mentioned earlier he was the only United States senator from the south who supported the union. Where did his strong union allegiance come from . East tennessee was very much pro union during the civil war. So it was just a different mindset, a different type of infrastructure, a different type of Farming Community than middle and west tennessee which were more aligned with the confederacy. What happened with tennessee voted for succession to the Johnson Family and tell us about their life during that period . It was very tragic unfortunately. First of all, they were calling johnson a traitor. They did, of course, confiscate the johnson home. That was a very tragic time for eliza because she was quite ill. And it was very difficult for her. There is a couple of different stories that, you know, they had given her 36 hours notice, literally, to leave the home. And she did, in fact, call her daughter. I believe it was mary that came with her and charles, plus, of course, her young son who was only 10 years old, andrew jr. Who they called frank. The story is basically that they were trying to get through confederate territory and it was very difficult because the confederate soldiers were all calling out to them and saying Different Things to them that were not very, very pleasant. One of the stories was that one night they slept by the railroad tracks. It was rather cold. They didnt have much food. They would go on various farming communities, knock on the door, ask if they could possibly spend the night there. It was an extremely difficult time. And by the time they did reach nashville, where andrew was at that point, poor eliza, she was just pretty well spent at that point. Were their lives in danger . Sure, sure. Yeah. Can you add some more color to this story and this period of their lives . She had taken refuge at marys house through the summer months. Then, as she said, we have a letter from charles where he talks about the cold, the rain, the hunger, the danger to their lives. They were traveling with mary and her husband, daniel, who had been a bridge burner during the civil war and had to hide out in the mountains the first winter of the war. They slipped food to those men. Finally made it to nashville. It said that johnson wept at the sight of eliza when she finally reached nashville. How dangerous was this for her to be slipping food to people in the hills . Probably very dangerous, yeah. We do know for a fact that she and mary both prepared the food. There was no question about that. I think theres some question as to who was delivering the food to these gorilla warriors. Right. In the hills basically and in caves. They were hiding out. So, how they were able to get to them im not exactly sure. I think they may have sent some messengers, possibly, but they definitely prepared the food, thats for sure. At the Andrew Johnson National Historic site there is some evidence of what life was like for the Johnson Family during the civil war. Were going to watch that video next. One of the things we learned is the north and the south fought over the occupation of greeneville all through the civil war. It changed hands over 26 times that were aware of. So they werent back here for over seven years. At the end of his presidency is when his daughter was asked to come restore the house for both eliza and andrews return. She came back and found graffiti written all over the walls. One of the best examples and one of the tragic examples is here on the wall. It says Andrew Johnson, the old traitor. We actually found northern soldiers names and their unit numbers as well as southern and their unit. During that time period, it was used as a hospital. It was used as a place to stay. And it was basically destroyed. That explains the importance of this part of east tennessee during the civil war. What was the role of governor of occupied tennessee given to him by lincoln . It was to restore Union Government in the state. And it was a challenging job. And he was firing people and the defense of nashville. He often came in conflict with the generals. He wrote letters to lincoln expressing his concern, also hoping for the liberation of east tennessee. Lincoln often sided with Andrew Johnson on a lot of the decisions that he made. How old were they sons a in the point and were they involved with the conflict . His older son charles definitely was. Charles was an assistant surgeon during the civil war. He was killed in the civil war. And robert was also as a matter of fact. I understand he was a lawyer but he also signed up and went to war. But thats when his drinking kind of took over. There were stories about him leaving his army of men and things of that nature. He had different difficulties but absolutely the two older bores fought in the war. Robert was colonel of the cavalry unit. He was the only Family Member who was able to attend charless funeral when he was killed during the war. How was he killed . Fell from a horse and hit his head. Where did that happen . Outside of nashville. And johnson and eliza were gone during that time. Eliza was up louisville and johnson had gone up to washington for a time. So robert was the only one able to represent the family. And its after that that it really seemed that the drinking problem started for him. Here is another mary lincoln comparison. Mary lincoln was devastated about the loss of her sons. Do we have historic evidence about how Eliza Johnson r aud l. Hi. I just was wondering how ms. Johnson felt about her husbands impeachment. Oh, thanks. Were going to talk about the impeachment just a little later on. Thank you for that question and well work it in as we work our way through the history of the johnson administration. Next up is a call from nan in lolo, montana. Hi, nan. Hello. Do you have a question . Yes. My question is why hm. The impeachment of johnson and its associated effects in history and then in history . Im going to have both of you talk about that. First of all, his big decision was to keep lincolns cabinet. He was of a Different Party than most of them. So, was he in constant turmoil with them or did they expect him as president . Some of them did. Disagreed with loot of his policies. And it was one source said he wouldnt quit and johnson wouldnt fire him. And later on his decision to suspend him came in particular with one that information had been with held from him and marys clemency and, two, information had been with held from him in regards to the new orleans riot. He went ahead and suspended him. How about his relationship with congress . And who were the radical republicans . What was their point of view . They were the ones who wanted a harsher reconstruction for the south. Break it into military districts, have commanders in charge of those districts. Andrew johnson during the washington birthday speech where he started naming people by name. Those were the key players. What was the concept of reinstructir reconstruction . It was to be as lenient as possible. He basically said that in his inaugural address when he was reelected. And johnson believed that, too. They knew there was still going to be, you know, just because the war had ended didnt mean peoples feelings had changed. And they were very aware of the fact that there was still individuals that disagreed with that point of view. And they werent going to accept things readily. He wanted to be as lenient as possible. He felt if you just pledge allegiance to the United States that he would then give you a pardon and accept it. With the radicals in congress and the senate, didnt believe in that at all. They thought it was treason. They really wanted to punish the southerners. And there was a constant battle between them. Specific question on facebook from cassie meadows. Do we know if johnson supported the 13th amendment. Uhhuh. He did . Uhhuh. How effective was he . What kind of Political Capital did he have to fight for his version of reconstruction . One of the problems that johnson had is unlike president lincoln, he didnt have the ability to negotiate. Okay . He was very hot tempered. He didnt like any kind of small talk whatsoever. President lincoln was able to talk to the man. He would tell varied stories. By the time he would get around, he was able to negotiate with individuals. Where johnson wasnt as much. He had a point of view and that was it. He would get angry very quickly. And he seemed to antagonize the people that he was debating with. He had a very difficult time even getting the moderates to go along with him because of his particular point of view and the way he presented it. He certainly was not politically correct, lets put it that way. Well, in past white houses we saw the first lady or in this case it would be the active first lady often played a very Important Role practicing parlor politics to bring the opposing sides together or in some cases actually going to capitol hill and getting the attention of individual members of congress. But the johnson daughters do any of this . Or was there any social use of the white house for political purpose . Not that im aware of. But she did preside over the state dinners and we have letter that written to mrs. Lincoln he passed on the martha giving protocol where everybody should be seated and who should be seated first and that is how you would pair the people up together. They probably plaited in that manner. The girls basically didnt. Unlike dolly madison, for instance, or adams, they were politically savvy. Yes, they used their parlor meetings and dinners and things to talk to the various congressmen and senators and get their point of view across. Interesting, we didnt make this connection before but martha as i understand it came up to the white house frequently during the Polk Administration. Absolutely. Or the other tennessee president. Thats right. Did she not go to school . No, she went to school there. She went to school in washington. No, i meant go to school off of the way that the Polk Administration oh, yes. Sara polk was very, very gracious to her. She didnt have any children of her own and oftentimes invited the young girls in from the school that were there. So she became quite friendly with mrs. Polk as well as Harriet Lange who was buchanans niece. Shes kind of came into politics through the back door, lets say. But i dont think she really impressed upon her father or wanted to push her particular point of view. She was married to a senator. Her husband was a senator. So she was very aware of what was going on but mainly taking it from the back door so to speak. One of the telling forces says that someone appealed to her for clemency for mary and she said i feel so terribly sorry for you but i have no more right to speak to him than any of the servants. She kept a background. Darla is next in fryberg, pennsylvania. Hi, darla. Hi. My question is are the johnsons the last president s to that were former slave owners . Or were there more president s after them . Thank you very much. Thats a good question. I want to say no. Im thinking of andrew or excuse me, ulysses s. Grant was opposed to slavery and president s after that did not. So that bad part of the history ends with the johnson administration. Actually our first six, seven president s all did have slaves other than the johnsons. Other than than excuse me john adams and john quincy adams, they were the only two of the early president s who didnt have slaves. It basically stopped with zachary taylor, the last president that brought slaves to the white house with him. After that, they didnt. Next is a question from tennessee, jonesboro, our caller is carol. Hi, carol. Hello . Youre on. Okay. Thank you. My husbands mother met mary martha pattersons daughter, which would have been Andrew Johnsons granddaughter some years ago. She came to jonesboro specifically to talk to my motherinlaw at the time. Saying she was that her grandmother was so thankful that my husbands great, great grandfather had saved the johnson homestead and had given safe passage to the family, to the Johnson Family, so that if they had wanted to go to the homestead during the war they could have. He was a confederate jengenerals at one time over the east tennessee area, general jackson. His granddaughter was my motherinlaw. Thanks for that story. Do you know any more about that . Granting safe passage or jenna looks after the family home during the war . Not in particular. Thanks for telling us about it. Shelden cooper says can we look at eliza and Andrew Johnson without the shadow of impeachment over their white house . I think sadly historians can but the average public thats all they constantly remember. Historians look back on it and understand that he had a position the homestead act that he wanted settlers to be able to settle on land and develop it and build it and then in fact, inherit it. Unfortunately the public doesnt hear that. Once again, they just want to its the gossip that is repeated year after year after year. How does the National Park service tell the impeachment story at the site . Well, we incorporate into the story. It is a major part of it. You try to show all sides and let the public decide for themselves. How they feel about it. So lets tell a more full story about what led to impeachment. Walk us through the steps and ill ask both of you to tell the story that ultimately led to the house charging him with high crimes and misdemeanors. Right. Well, i can tell you that the senate basically they had passed an act of congress that said that the president himself could not fire his cabinet members without congresss approval. That, of course, is not constitutional and president johnson said theres no way hes going to do that. That wasnt going to be part of that. And so when he went ahead and suspended secretary of war stanton, thats when the senate said were going to push this. Because he did that he was, in fact, in violation of this law. And thats basically what one of the things that pushed it over the edge for them. But it was a showdown. You said he and stanton had a lot of antipathy. Tell us more about the politics. He suspended stanton in the fall when congress was not in session. In december when they came back in session he told them what he had done and they basically rejected that and restored him to office in january. And then johnson went ahead and fired him. And that was the impetus for them to go ahead and start impeachment proceedings. Caveat that he couldnt fire member of the cabinet during a term of the president who appointed them. So lincoln had appointed stanton. So its like they very much hurt themselves by doing that. The impeachment proceedings began in congress on march 5th, 1868 and go through may 1868 and the first lady had a very active role in all of this. Were going to take a call and come back and learn more about this. Next is john, waverly, tennessee. Youre on, john. Yes, maam. I was just wondering about ms. Eliza johnsons reaction or feelings about her husband s subsequent, people s relationship with johnsons after his rise to power. If that became more positive or what. Thank you very much. How did Eliza Johnson feel about her husband being tapped by lincoln for the vice presidency . She was very proud of her husband. Theres no question about that. And she supported all of his decisions. But once again, she was a very private person. So it was fine for her husband to be in politics. It was fine for him help support her husband . It was very much business as usual. They went on as if nothing else was going on. That was part of political posturing, right . The grandchildren helped a lot, you know, to keep their minds off things. And the attorneys. The attorneys told johnson not to say anything. To reserve comment. We will handle it. And so mrs. Johnson said were just going to go ahead as business as usual. The grandchildren around, they still had their levies every week. Martha said she didnt have time to even comment on it. Exactly. Exactly. She was so busy doing so much around the house that needed to be done. But you told us earlier that she was an avid follower of the press, we can presume she was sitting there everyday absolutely. And reading everything. And i think thats part of the things when there was something good written in the newspaper, she could show him that at night before he went to bed. Critical in the newspaper, she would wait until the morning to show it to him. My impression was, as much as johnson wanted to fight himself, it was his attorneys that said dont do that. Youre the president. He had a very well balanced defense team. Exactly. Colonel crook, a personal body guard and attendant there writes that he rushed in to tell eliza that johnson had been aquited and this frail woman stood up and her emaciated woman with tears in her eyes said i knew he would be acquitted. I knew it. Each week we have one special feature. You can see. On the website my understanding very popular. Everybody wanted to go to it. I think it was a dollar if im not mistaken. Im trying to recall. Do you have a picture of that . I dont know. I can see but not enough detail on it. Yes. People in washington, d. C. Unlike the rest of the country very active in politics. Very involved in what is going on. The middle east or midwest and certainly the west, california, theyre somewhat removed from it. They read about it or hear it on the news, the people on washington, d. C. Want to be right there and want to partake in it. Very important to them. They had different colors for different days. The galleries were full. Mark twain was one of the reporters at the impeachment trial. Very good. So if you canvas the newspapers in the time, how was this playing in the papers . Columnist started in the last administrati administration, there were opinion writers now following politics, not just the reporting of it. Political cartoons. Harpers weekly we have a whole compilation of just the harpers weekly articles about the impeachment trial. How did he fare in all this . Public support behind him . Some, some not. Yes. Thats why it was good news or bad news it was always a divide in the country. And the president just chose to listen to the people that, in fact, supported him. He felt very, very strongly in his views. He was very much a constitutionalist. He believed in the constitution. And his interpretation of it is what he said was going to be law basically. And thats where it stood as far as he was concerned. As much as he was vilified by some, he was just as passionately liked by others. Josie another tennesseen, greeneville, actually. Youre on. Welcome. Hey. I was wondering what relationship did the johnsons have with their slaves . Okay. Now, you have to tell us a little bit about yourself if you will. How old are you . Im 10 years old. Have you been to the johnson site in your hometown . Ive been very well close to it. I have been in it. We hope we inspired you to do that coming up soon. Thank you for your question from the president from your own hometown, josie. Thanks for your call tonight. Very good. It was a very lenient relationship. Will, dollys son, remembers that eliza had candies and cookies by her bed and when they came up. And just as we talked before the support that they gave them as they stayed on as servants and giving land. And. Health care. Helping them. Absolutely. Next is a call this is a popular night for san diego. Another san diegoen, kathy, hi, welcome. Hi, this is kathy chamberlain. Im calling to give you my compliments. This is a fabulous program. I was born and raised in greeneville, tennessee. I go back there every year. Im very familiar with Andrew Johnson and the family. But i have learned more tonight than i ever have and its been years and years and years and years. So i just want to thank you for this. Its fascinating. Ill be watching for the other president s wives as well. Terrific. Well be here until president s day next year with a break in the summer with individual program on nearly every first lady, couple cases that we combined them but for the most part 35 programs to tell you about the lives of the first lady and learn American History that way. Youre a greeneville, tennessee, native. Uhhuh. How did you get interested in the johnson history . Wow. I guess when i was 12 my mother told me she knew what i needed to do with my life. You love history. You love to tell stories. You need to work for the National Park service. So she said we got one here in town. We went to see it. I fell in love. And when i was in high school, in the anchor club, someone came and said who would like to dress in victorian clothes and tour the johnson homestead candle light. Pick me. I loved war history. Majored in english and history in college. You have at times sberptded one of the daughters . I have done mar than occasion and represented mary. One of my first theatrical roles was portraying eliza. Your interest in the history of the first ladies, this is a lifes work. Yes, it is. Three volumes. You published two of them so far. I published two of them so far. How did it start . My name is jacqulynn. I tell my aud ynss im a National Guest speaker. When i speak, i tell them that i didnt know any jackies when i was a young girl growing up. That there was Jackie Gleeson and Jackie Cooper but they were men and that didnt count. When jacqulynn kennedy walked into the white house and she was tall and sophisticated and spoke three languages, i wanted to be just like her. I thought she was absolutely charming and beautiful. Then of course the assassination of president kennedy, like the rest of the country, i was glued to the television for four days and four nights, along with cspan and cnn and fox news were all 24hour news. We were just riveted by the assassination. Thats what got me hooked on it. Ive been studying them ever since. Well, back to the johnsons and the impeachment, he still had 10 months to go until he finished office after he was acquitted in this process. So, what kind of Political Capital did he have left . What were those last months of his Administration Like . I dont think he had much. He kept trying to instill spot for his point of view and the things he wanted to get through but he had no cooperation from congress whatsoever. And he just didnt know how to do it. I think thats the sad part of the administration is that, you know, they found him nasty and so they didnt want to work with him at all. It was very tough. Did he have any thoughts of running for kind of wanted to, was not chosen by the democratic party. And he did have amnesty in his power, and on christmas day, that last year, he imposed a broad amnesty proclamation for the south. What did that mean for the people of the south . It forgave them, essentially, and each of his amnesty proclamations got a little more liberal each time, and this last time broad amnesty proclamation, first, the restrictions as to a certain amount of wealth of landowners, and this last one, it pardoned jefferson davis. How constitutionally important was his impeachment process . Did it establish the role for president s to be able to fire members of their cabinet . That was unconstitutional in the first place. They obviously, a president can fire his own cabinet members. Congress, theyre trying to do anything they possibly could to inflict a greater punishment on the south. They just couldnt get johnson to go along with it. They thought, well, well take him out of office. Like i said, it wasnt constitutional at that time, but it was the first time in history obviously it had ever occurred. Was there a constitutional legacy of the impeachment process that in some ways was looked back in history for significance . I tell you one thing im aware of. There was the one southern democrat that did not vote for it, which is why he was not impeached. The impeachment process went ahead, but he was acquitted. And that particular republican senator, republican senator, he basically lost his ability to go on politically after that. His party just destroyed his political future after that. And it was something that was very courageous for him to do and something that actually a future president , john kennedy, wrote about in his book, you know, about having courage and things of that nature. Profiles in courage. The tenure of office act was overturned. So ultimately, the Supreme Court has banned it. Would either of you care to comment, and youre not american historians, i understand that, but on the legacy of reconstruction on either the south or on american blacks. A tough one. You know, i sometimes wonder, history changed dramatically when lincoln was assassinated. There are some president s, some individuals that had the ability to make things happen. And we will never know as a country whether or not things would have happened differently. It certainly wouldnt have happened overnight. People did have their prejudices. There was no question about that. But it was very sad that we werent able to move forward a little more quickly. The Southern States imposed black laws. So even though the slaves were free, they had other restrictions on them. They still couldnt own land or they couldnt sit on a jury trial. Things of that nature. Dont really know where it would have gone had lincoln lived. If there could have been more compromise between the two sides which were so extreme, extremely divergent, it may have made a difference. Regina crumky asked this question. What would the johnsons have considered their political high point . Wow. Hmm. I think going back to the senate. That was sort of his vindication. And to go back into the senate, some of the people who were still there that had presided in the impeachment trial. Do you have a different thought . I absolutely agree with kendra on that, no question about it, but i was thinking when i first heard the question, you know, of all the parties and things they did at the white house, for president johnsons 60th birthday, they threw an enormous party and only invited children, which was very interesting. And there were parents and adults that wanted to come to this party, and eliza came downstairs and they had this wonderful event, you know, coffee, i shouldnt say coffee, ice cream for the kids and cake for the children, and dancing, and it was great fun for them. You could see mrs. Johnson particularly enjoyed that aspect of it. That was probably their high point inside the white house, and then afterwards, absolutely, when he got reelected in the senate. A nice segue into our final video for this program. This is on life after the white house for the johnsons. Were now in mrs. Johnsons room. This is the room she returned to after their years in the white house. We have her bed. And nearby, since she was an invulid, still plagued with consumption, we have what is known as an invulids chair. Not only does the foot rest come up, but it also reclines. Being an invalid, there is a sp spin spittoon near her chair. You also have a pink water basin and chamber pot. Hers are pink and the president s are blue. She enjoyed embroidery work. She had a sewing bird clamped on to her table, and she enjoyed reading poetry. One of the books is entitled the happy life. She and andrew suffered a lot during the civil war, during the years of his presidency. Yet one of the points she marked in the book is titled love in adversity. It says those stormy skies have drawn our spirits nearer. And rendered us by those ties into the other dearer. That pretty well sums up andrew and elizas relationship. Eliza johnson was an avid scrapbooker and she kept a wonderful collection of newspaper articles she clipped about her husband and she gathered them here in her scrapbook, and they run from the 1850s even up until past her and andrews death, up to the 1880s. We can only assume perhaps one of her daughters kept the tradition going for her. Andrew johnson would come chat with her every day when he ningsnings finished his political duties and she would share the articles she clipped for him. If there was something particularly good, she would share it in the evening. Grandchildren on the whatnot stand in the corner of the room. She remained here throughout the remainder of her life. She remained with a daughter, and she remained with that daughter until she passed away herself in 1876. So based on what you told us about Eliza Johnson being a homebody who really didnt love the public life, she must have been very happy to be back in greenville, tennessee. Thrilled. The irony of that is she was thrilled to get back home, and they would no sooner get her back home and andrew wanted to get back into politics. Their lives kind of went back to the way it had always been for them. She just was not interested at all, but very proud that her husband did in fact get reel t reelected to the senate. So she supported his run for Public Office again. Did he leave her behind when he went to washington . He did. Many letters inquiring after how shes doing, how her health is, and when he was in nashville at one point canvassing, he said let me know if mother gets worse and ill come back home. He just went through his impeachment trial. When the Johnson Family came back to their home in greenville, tennessee, and their home state of tennessee, what was the reception at home for them . Surprisingly, it was very, very good. Remember, back during the civil war, they were calling him a traitor and what not. Now there were signs he was a patriot. They were very proud to have him come back, and the tone completely changed from being very, very negative to extremely positive. The townssending telegra telegrams, can you tell us what day youll be here . We want to plan a reception and we want it to be good. This was a native son, or the politics had changed and they were more receptive to it . Well, the traitor comments came when east tennessee was controlled by the confederacy. The prounion side had been very supportive of his politics. Next is robert in chicago. Hi, robert. Whats your question . Caller yes, i would like to know if the johnson home is in the original state of franklin, which was in eastern tennessee, and is it true that president johnson was buried in a flag and had the constitution on his head . Thank you. Okay. Yes. The homestead came later, but this was the area where they attempted to create the state of franklin early on, shortly after the revolution. And yes, Andrew Johnson is buried with the american flag. His obituaries often say the constitution was resting under his hand instead of his head. So i dont know if thats just a trick under his hand, under his head, and the sound, it changed over the years, but family always regretted he had been buried with his original copy of the constitution and his writings. I think we told this story, but joe on facebook asked, did eliza and andrew make a love match . Was this a love relationship . Absolutely. Absolutely. And it was 50 years long. About 48, they were married 48 years. There was a tremendous love match. Someone once said they were the same mind and same soul. You know, even though completely different. Exactly. Even though completely different. They said, you know, he could be vehement, he was a fighter. But the one person that he leaned on completely was this frail little woman. And i am looking for it not successfully, but somewhere on facebook, someone asked, what would Eliza Johnson wish her legacy to be as first lady . Do we have any sense of that . If we dont know what she wished, what should history view her legacy as first lady . On Andrew Johnsons monument, it says the people never wavered. I think hers might be her faith in her husband never wavered. I think thats what she would want her legacy to be for her and her children. So many first ladies really wanted to be in the white house. Mary todd lincoln happened to be one of them. Helen taft is another one. Sarah polk, they were very politically involved with their spouses. And then there were a few that really had no desire and no interest whatsoever. As much as they love their spouse and supported their spouse, they didnt want any part of politics. Thinking, you know, zachary taylors wife margaret felt the exact same way. So its just a difference of opinion. You love your spouse, but its their career. And even Lady Bird Johnson made that comment when they left the white house. Politics was my husbands career, not mine. One said that the one thing that may have resigned her to being in the white house with the entire family was they were there. The kids were there with them. Ron in florida. Are you there, sir . Caller i am indeed. And thank you for taking my call. And its a wonderful series. Just a couple quick questions. How does eliza respond to on the night president lincolns assassination, card was left for her husband as well. And second, just really quick, have any of your guests seen the film tennessee johnson which was a wonderful film done in the 40s with van heflin playing president johnson. A remarkable film for the time, and it sort of vindicated president johnson a little bit. Thanks so much. Have you seen the film . Oh, yes, during the bicentennial, we had a special showing of tin the old capitol theater. We had world war ii news reels go before as it would have been when it was originally shown. His first question about eliza and the lincoln assassination . Im not aware she even heard about it. Unlike today where were tweeting and calling and doing things instantaneously, it took a little longer back then to get information down. I just know she was terrified. I dont know her immediate reaction. And who they stayed with after they left the white house said a reference we told poor eliegz eliza too quickly and devastated her. I read that Eliza Johnson looked forward to leaving the white house almost from the day she arrived. Saying its all very well for those who like it but i dont like this public life at all. I often wish time would come where we could return to where we best belong. History has shown that the Johnson Family behaved and lived impeccably in the white house with spotlet social reputations. Do you agree with his assessment . Absolutely. Even people in the white house, people in washington, all said they were extremely honorable. Probably one of the most well liked families that lived in the white house because they were so gracious. They gave of themselves, their time, their energy, they efforts, and i totally agree. One source said he was probably one of the hardest working president s that were ever in the white house. They also said once you got him away from politics, he was quite a pleasant fellow to be around. We hope we added more contour to the story rather than simply the first impeached president , and president ial pondering asks, was there any recognition or mourning when andrew or eliza passed away six months apart from each other . Sure. There was a big funeral for Andrew Johnson, special trains brought in dignitaries and people alike, and then recently, when eliza died, the same was brought in from knoxville for her funeral and drawn by four white horses and led by some of the former servants. The White House Historical association has been our partner and will be throughout this whole series helping us with research, with guests, and also many of the photographs and other additions we bring to the program. And i want to say a special thanks to our two guests, Kendra Hinkle, shes been working at her lifes work since a teenager, and jacqueline berger, two books, two of three in a series on the first ladies called love, lives, and tears. Its available for those who are getting the first ladies bug through the series. Thank you for being here tonight to both of you, and thanks for watching. Our next is on the life of the grants. If you enjoyed watching first ladies, pick up a copy of the book first ladies, influence and image. Featuring profiles of the nations first ladies. Through interviews with top historians. Now available in paperback, hardcover, or as an ebook. First ladies, influence and image, on American History tv. Examines the private lives and the public roles of the nations first ladies through interviews with top historians. Tonight, we look at julia grant and lucy hayes. Julia grant was a staunch defender of womens rights in general and refused to allow jokes at womens expense to be told in her company. And lucy hayes was the first first lady to have a college degree. Watch first ladies, influence and image, tonight at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on American History tv. On cspan3. Every saturday night, American History tv takes you to College Classrooms around the country for lectures in history. Why do you all know who Lizzie Borden is, and raise your hand if you ever heard of this murder, the gene harris murder trial, before this class. The deepest cause where well find the true meaning of the revolution is in this transformation that took place in the minds of the american people. Were going to talk about both of these sides of the story here, right. 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Author Richard Carwardine talked about his life. This is 50 minutes. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Michael Bishop and im a board member of the Abraham Lincoln institute and a fo