Transcripts For CSPAN3 First Ladies Influence Image - Anna Harrison Letitia Tyler Julia Tyler 20240712

She was not happy that her husband had been elected president. She was not looking forward to being the first lady. The problem was of course, that he died only one month into his presidency, and she never made it to washington. In 1836, when john tyler resigned from the United States senate, he and his wife laetitia and her family moved to williamsburg. It is right here that laetitia tyler suffered her stroke in 1839 and john tyler learned that he was elected as Vice President William Henri harrison, and it is also here in the spring of 1841 where he was informed that he became tenth president of the United States, and that laetitia tyler learned that she became the first lady. She has another terrible stroke and guys. Her husband goes into great morning and then he meets Julia Gardiner who is another young love in her twenties. Julia is the madonna of the first ladies. She loved publicity. She actually posed as a model which was frowned upon. She was bewitching. They had a total of almost 90 slaves, under her supervision. Julia did lobby for her husband. She supported him tremendously in everything that she did. Untimely deaths, a secret marriage, and outside personalities are part of the three stories featured in our program tonight. As our political system grapples with the first time a Vice President steps into the office of the presidency and sectional differences continue to grow and the country. Good evening and welcome to cspan series first ladies, influence and image. William Henri Harrison comes into office and just a month later, he dies. The first time a president dies in office. To learn about the tumultuous period of time, we have asked Edna Greene Medford to our set tonight. She is the chair at Howard University and has been working on our history series. Nice to be here. School children have all grown up with the phrase from the 1840 election, tipping canoe and tyler to. It was William Harrisons campaign. He was elected at the age of 68, a record that no one broke again until Ronald Reagan was elected. Who is this man and what did he so easily defeat Martin Van Buren . At the outset, i announced with a bit of pride that he was from Charles City County, virginia. My home county. He moved to ohio. He was a military man initially. He had actually studied medicine for a short period of time and decided to join the military shortly thereafter. Moved to ohio. He became the territorial governor of indiana, and was before that, a noted indian fighter. The term typical new comes from the battle of typical new. The two native americans were taken to establish an indian movement. As a territorial governor, tyler was instrumental, excuse me, harrison was instrumental in securing land for white settlers. That clashed with native american interests. At that battle, harrison was considered the victor. We are not so certain about that. But he became important enough in that battle that it carried him into public office. That was one of the things they did. His wife, and a harrison was not happy about him coming back to politics. In fact, we have a quote from Anna Harrison that says, i wish my husbands friends had left him where he is, happy and contented in retirement. How was he drawn into politics, again, and lets talk about what kind of a political spouse she was . It is an interesting time in american political history. It is the period of the second American Party system. There are two very distinct parties. The Democratic Party with Andrew Jackson as leader, and the whip party that grows out of opposition to jackson primarily. William lee harrison becomes a member of the whig party soon after it is abounded. He is the first candidate for that party in 1836. But because they did not have themselves together, there was no possibility of him winning. In 1840, they were organized well enough and that the democrats were divided enough that he was able to win. So Anna Harrison, his spouse had been with him through a long political career. What do we really know about this woman . We do not know an awful lot about her. We know that she was a reluctant first lady. She did not get to be first lady and the white house, of course because the day that her husband and other members of the family left to go to washington, she was too ill to travel. Curiously enough, or ironically enough, the day that she was all packed up and ready to join him in washington, was the day that she had notification that he had died. How did he die . That is an interesting question. The argument has always been that he died because he was not prudent enough to wear a top hat and coat, in his inauguration. He spoke too long and so he was exposed to very cold weather and he caught a cold and died. I think it is a little bit more complex than that. He was an older gentleman, as you said, he was 68. He was exhausted by all of the Office Secrets and the first month of his presidency. I think all of that compromised his health. He did eventually catch a very bad coal that turned into ammonia. He did die as a consequence. We do know, from ana harrison that she was the first lady to have a public education, and that she was an avid reader of political journals throughout her liked. We have the sense that she had more time at all from the historic, research about what kind of lady she might have been . She did read political journals but i dont know that she was a very political person. I do not believe that she would have or had the role that some other first ladies did later on, especially the person who follows her as first lady. The second person, actually. John tylers second wife. At least, she certainly, during the time that even though, she did not come to the white house, she did use her influence, the influence she had to get appointments for her nephews and for her sons and grandsons. She would have been political and that way, but not in the way that we would think of someone like julia tyler. We will learn much more about her as the Program Continues tonight. On twitter, president ponderings asked this question. Or makes this comment, ana harrisons husband became president , her son a congressman, her grandson also a president. She must have been she must have had good jeans. What was going on that the family produced so Many Political leaders . They were the first families of virginia. You would have had harrisons who were involved in the american revolution, one signing the declaration of independence. They have this long history of political involvement. I think as well, it is where they are located by the mid 1800s in that northwest territories, in this area that is opening up for the country, and these men are getting very politically involved because of. That related, our jay wilson on our Facebook Page ask, is it true that Anna Harrison helped raise her grandson Benjamin Harrison who became president. Any sense any kind of influence she had on him as a future president . She certainly did live with the family. Her home burnt and she went to live with one of her sons, and of course he was the father of benjamin. What influence she had on him, we really do not know. We have soon that as grandmothers are prone to do, we do have influence. There was a brief tenure, only a month in the white house, but there were some social things that have had to happen. How did that will get fulfilled with our first lady here . Because she was not there, there are two other women who carried out the duties. One was jane ervin harrison, who actually was a widow. She was married to one of the harrison men, that he had died. So William Henry apparently asked her to serve in that capacity. She was assisted by one of her aunts, by the same name, jane finley, who was an older woman and gave her guidance. She was not the official hostess of the white house but she did give her a lot of guidance. Is it true that Dolley Madison who seems to pop up often offer her advice . I think she did every time she could get away with it. Yes, she would have been nearby to help out from time to time. When Lasting Legacy is that she was the first president ial widow that was able to get a pension from her service. How did that happen . What were the politics of that . Her husband had died in office and she needed the assistance, and so congress did appropriate 25,000 dollars for her. Which is not an substantial money if you were to calculated today. In lump sum. When he dies in office, this is the first time that this has happened. Did create a constitutional crisis . The constitution does indicate that if the president is not there, it doesnt say specifically death, but if the president is unable to perform the duties, then those duties fall on the Vice President. But it did not say what the status of that person would be. Would he be carrying out the duties and responsibilities as Vice President . As acting president . Or as the new president . So john tyler decided that he was not going to let them think too long about that, so he declared himself the president. He had congress well, congress agreed to pass resolutions on both houses, to pass resolutions declaring him president. Not everyone agreed with that, however. Occasionally, khoury males came to the white house addressing the acting president. Those documents returned unopened. He was born he was born in Charles City County, virginia. He lyft only a couple miles down the road from the harrison estate. He was born he was an interesting president. Although he was elected with William Henri harrison, he had actually been a jacksonlee and democrat earlier on in his career. He had clashed with jackson and the democrats and had to join the when whig party. They expelled him from the party. We will learn more about the presidency and the two women who served as his first lady. We will do that by introducing new to the life that they had in what we call now today, colonial williamsburg. In 1836 when john tyler resigned from the United States senate, he and his wife laetitia and her family moved here to establish his law practice. In fact, we reconstructed his law office and his laundry. The house they lived in is no longer here, but here in williamsburg, it was situated at the center of the town. The legal part of the town. The courthouse is right across the street near all of the markets. Near all of the shops that are up and down the street. This is the beating heart of williamsburg, even in the 18 thirties. So all of the political activity social activity, they are really living at the center of it in this fantastic 18th century house that they were living in as john tyler is resurrecting his political career. After the move here, when laetitia is running the household and running the in tyler entire tyler family, she will be operating out of the house, the the business, that is the tyler family. Running the plantation. Letitia suffered a stroke that partly paralyzed her, although she was still able to retain control of the family accounts, all of the family business, while john tyler was back involved in politics. It is here in the space that john tyler learned that he was elected as Vice President william harrison, and in the spring of 1841 where he was informed that he became tenth president of the United States. It was here that Letitia Tyler learned that she became the first lady of the United States. We are back on the set. Joining us is the gentlemen that you saw in that video. Colonial williamsburg historian, he is an expert on the history of the Tyler Virginian area where the tylers were from. How important give us a sense of virginia and that period of time and what kind of characteristics a person in public life would bring with them into the office from having been there . I think when you are talking about virginia and that period, youre still getting over the american revolution. Maybe not quite yet. They are not letting go of the american revolution. Not letting go of Thomas Jefferson and the kind of revolutionary principles that are supposed to inform public conduct and virtue. By the time you get to the through john tylers career, to the 18 twenties and 18 thirties, those things start to be coalesced into notions about states rights. Notions about what is the proper use of the constitution. Notions about what the extent of federal authority is. You hear people like john tyler top a great deal about the principles of 1790, thinking about the kentucky and virginia resolutions and the ability of the states to override unconstitutional, or so they think unconstitutional, federal actions. Hes principles of the American Revolutionary are being still thought about. They are being fought over, but also the kind of things that come to what are the expectations of a public leader . They need to be virtuous, interested, and that is the only when you can actually make good public policy. Where did letitia and john tyler meet . They met where almost everybody met. Williamsburg. They actually lived not that far from one another. John tyler is from Charles City County. In a place called green way. Letitia tyler is from New Kent County which is a stones throw away from the other county. We do not know exactly where they met. We know that they met at about 1811 to 1812. John tyler went to william their families became involved with one another. They made it a very young age. They were both the exact same age. They were 21 or 22 when they met. They fell in love quite quickly. We have already been incorporating some of your tweets and Facebook Comments into our program tonight but you can also call us with your questions. We look forward to participation. If you live in the eastern or central time zones, our number is two zero two five eight five three eight eight one. Were hoping you texans will line up with your phone calls tonight, because this white house was responsible for the annexation for the union and we will learn more about the role that john tylers second wife played in that very momentous decision. So letitia and john tyler had a lot of children. They had a lot of children. It is one of the things that really kept them apart for a great chunk of their married life. John tyler was constitutionally incapable of being out of public office. He was addicted to it to a certain extent. That left laetitia at home to run the family, to run the business and to continue to manage this incredible brood of children that they had, almost from the very start. And running their plantation would have been how large of an operation . They had a number of different plantations. One of the issues with jon tyler and the family is that are always on the very edge of solvency. They never live in one place for longer than ten years. They are always moving around. They are plantations, they own probably know more than between 30 and 35 slaves at a particular time and they are growing mainly wheat and corn over about 600 and 900 acres. That is between their own plantations, several plantations and Charles City County, then move to bluster county on the other side, and so they are continuing to try to figure out a way, during these very striking economic changes to the country, like the panic of 1819 and that goes into what is going on in the late in 1837. To find a way that they can keep their heads economically above water. With john tyler gone for so long, and so often, six months out of every year, while he was in public office, and this leads a lot of that burden resting on letitias shoulders. She was a pretty tough woman. She had a stroke and was paralyzed, it continued to handle the operations. I think that is indicative of the kind of life that women live during that time. Even wealthy women. This was rural living and life was tough for them, but life was made easier for them by their enslaved laborers, and they certainly did use those to their greater advantage. Question for both of you about tylers attitude at this point with Letitia Tyler about their attitudes toward slavery. John tyler was one of the staunchest supporters of slavery that ever inhabited the white house. He believed firmly and he said that slavery is the greatest property that a southerner can own. He believes this is the backbone of the society. Letitia, we know a little bit less about. We know from a story that actually ends up in some of the abolitionist press later on in the 19th century of a former enslaved member of the Christian Family who recalled that john tyler actually, he may have been less kind to the enslaved men and women who are out in the fields, but when it came to the enslaved and women in the household, he stopped right there. They were under letitias protection and treated very well. You can read much into a story like that. But we have a clear understanding of what john tylers views are and they are consistent throughout his life. Weve looked at since the statistics for the time period. He is the 1840 view of america through the census. The population had reached 17 million and now 26 states. That is a 32. 7 growth since 1830 consensus. We consistently see 30 . The slaves number, 2. 5 million which was almost 15 of the population. New orleans joins the list of the largest cities in the United States. Two things. We heard about the tylers and their attitudes towards slavery. Give us a quick caps elation of what was happening at the country at large obviously very at this point in 1840. This was a tremendous spirit of sectional tension. We would sometimes like to think that the countrys divided regionally, that everyone in the north as anti slavery and everyone in the south is put pro slavery. It is not quite that simple. At the same time, it does tend to fall along those lines for specific reasons. First of all, people in the north who had benefited from slavery, and the slave trade, certainly, until it was ended in 1808. Now have moved into a different economic arena. They no longer need slavery. In fact, slavery is a threat to them, because of the free labor system in the north. In the kind of economy that is needed to preserve institutions in the north are different from those of the south. What is happening in congress is, both groups want to control the legislation, because if you are a more industrialized region, and you want certain kinds of loss to pass that are going to support that economy. If you are more agrarian then you want laws that will support that. So there is a tremendous amount of concern about the expansion of slavery. It is not so much the northerners that are anti slavery because they are humanitarians, but it is because of how slavery impacts them or how the expansion couldnt impact them. Barbara is our first caller tonight from michigan. Welcome. Good evening. Cspan, i love your series. I would like to know, what was the duration of both of the president s marriages and how many children would he have had as a result of both marriages . Thank you so much. Thank you. I saw one book that refer to john tyler as the father of our country. How many children . I think that they had 16 or 17 children. It depends on whether you count the ones i think a total of 15. I believe. There were eight by letitia, and one died very quickly. That was an 1825. Then seven by julia. With a very much shorter marriage. He was married to letitia for 29 years, and then he was married to julia from 1844, so 18. The tylers learn as you tell us, the fact that theyre coming to the white house and he is the tenth president of the United States, letitias health is precarious. How did she carry out the role of the first lady . It depends what you mean by the role of first lady. What is the first lady . Someone who happens to be married to the president . They have to fulfill these very particular roles . With letitia, she is by nature, she likes to stay home and the quiet life. She does not like public activities that a first lady would normally associate with. Even without her illness, even without the stroke, i think it would have been a fairly quiet white house in the residence. However, that does not mean that there are not other people there to fulfill these rolled. It just means that she has to have other people do it for them. It is a big family as we pointed out. It is a closely knit family. They have a lot of their daughters living in the white house. They have a son and daughter in law living in the white house. She really turns all of that extraordinary social energy over to them. In particular, their daughterinlaw priscilla. Gary asks, what role did Priscilla Cooper have during laetitias white house and after her death . She is serving as an unofficial hostess. Especially with the tylers daughter, letitia, the namesake. She is an interesting person because she was an actress. At a time when it was not a good thing for a women to be that. It was not considered respectable. But the tylers accepted her and more importantly, letitia accepted her. She was very close to her. She wouldve been performing most of the functions had she been able to do so. It is not so much that she is not doing anything. Even though she is disabled because of the stroke, she is still giving orders from her bedroom, so to speak. She cannot go out in the way that priscilla can and her daughter cant, but she is doing some things. John tylers presidency was full of momentous issues. Do we have any evidence that laetitia tyler canceled him politically . We have evidence that she counseled him and went very important way. She said come home, stay out of it. I want you here. But of course, as we talked about, he could not stay out of politics so by the time he was in the senate in the 18 thirties, she gave up. After that, he mentioned over and over again and letters to their children that she, he respected her prudence and her judgment. That political issues he generally reserved those kinds of discussions with his male friends. There was a big debate and congress about whether or not there should be appropriations for this Vice President to assume that the presidency, and whether or not they should pay for his expenses and the white house. Yet you suggested they entertained quite a lot. How did they do that . It had to have been with his own friends because congress did not appropriate money for them. At least not to fix up the white house. The white house was an absolute mess at that time. The white house was in poor repair. He must have use some of his own funds to entertain people and they did entertained lavishly. You suggested earlier that they were always on the edge of solvency. How did they do that . You assume that a lot of them big one of the most extravagant is john tyler himself. He spends most of his life in one sense, anyone sort having his family, people like letitia, trying to keep him outside of it. If there are these lavish entertainments. Priscilla who is taking a page out of the book, she holds during the congressional session, she will hold to formal parties every week. She will do every other week, public receptions in the evenings. She will hold public parties every month that would have as many as 1000 people. She opened up the white house on new years eve. On new years, she opened up the white house on july 4th and she started the tradition of having the marine band do a perform in the south lawn. They are finding ways to do that. He they might be doing it with mayors because Congress Giving their battles with john tyler, they do not appropriate assent for the upkeep of that white house during that entire presidency. A call for marvin in less angeles. Hi marvin. Hello. My question is a constitutional question. Article two section one says the elector shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for two persons of whom won at least shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves. If both of them came from the same county in virginia, how was it that they could both be president and Vice President . The second part of my question is, is it true that tyler was called his accident see because of the way he took over as president through the death of harrison . Thank you very much for taking my question. Thank you for asking at marvin. First of all they were born in Charles City County but not living there at the time they were elected. Harrison was in ohio, john tyler was in virginia but harrison was in ohio. The other question was about. His accidency yes the accidental president or his accidency because no one expected john tyler to ascend to the presidency. What kinds of issues in the face when he came to office . There are the personal ones and then there are the broader political once. The personal ones are that people did not trust him. They did not like him. They did not expect that he would be on the ticket in the first place. He was not even the first choice of being Vice President for the wag party. And so they were fine to let him live in williamsburg while Harry Harrison was in the white house. Those sort of personal things he has to deal with. The broader political issues, they are certainly the issue over the renewal of the bank of the United States. There are issues over protective tariffs depending on what part of the country you lived in as to what was being protected and what wasnt. The biggest one that comes up to define the presidency i think is really about the expansion of slavery. The annexation of texas and out what that means for the strength of the republic or its weakness in terms of what you think it has on the effect of slavery. Next is a call from sioux city iowa. Yes, thank you for taking my call. I really enjoy the program. My question is you have had a number of talks about jackson and tyler and they both had slaves. How did those slaves fare after the civil war . Where those plantations burned by the yankees or how it did that come out . Ill hang up and let you answer it. Thank you. Well, certainly the union army is coming through twice actually as a consequence of mcclellands peninsula campaign. Each time the union army comes through, the enslaved population leaves, they take the opportunity to leave. What is happening in charles city on the tyler plantation, sure would forest, is that julia has left. She has fled and gone to new york to Staten Island to live with her mother. And so there are enslaved people left behind and it is reported that some of them take over the plantation. Certainly the house there are some things that are done by the union army probably and perhaps by local people as well. The plantation is in a bit of a mess when the war is over which is not that unusual for plantations in certain areas of the south at that time. They certainly do in slave certain enslaved people certainly do suffer during the war but they get their freedom as a consequence as well. So there is an incident where julia rights to president lincoln because one of her neighbors who is a notorious secessionist is arrested by the union army and it happens to be a part of the union army that is under the control of general wild who is commander of the african brigade. Some of the people who are attached to that unit had been enslaved by this gentleman, william clocked in, and they are allowed to beat him and julia is absolutely enraged at the idea. She is also concerned as well that her niece is left behind so shes concerned about her wellbeing. But she actually writes to president lincoln and complains about it and she signs her letter mrs. Ex president tyler. She loved to use that. We have not even introduced julia into our tale yet so tell us about the death of Letitia Tyler at the white house. She died on september 10th in 1842. She had another massive stroke. Did she die instantly . There is no evidence that theres any kind of lingering. That she does fairly quickly and it hits the family like a ton of bricks. Was there a white house funeral for her . Not that we know of. They kept things break private. In fact she was buried at her home, a place in new cant county rather then at Green Way Court or any place else that they may have lived. She was buried at her home with her parents. And so it was a very very quiet event but it was mostly manifested in the kind of impact that it had in her children who were devastated. What about the president himself . What was his reaction to losing his wife . At the time, from his letters, we know that he was obviously emotionally attached to letitia. She had been a big part of his life for a very long time and he loved her dearly. However, we also have evidence that he is seeing Julia Gardner tyler probably about four months after her death. And who is Julia Gardener . Julia gardiner was called the madonna of the period perhaps, shes a young woman from long island new york from east hampton from where and at harrison had gone to school. She is from a very wellknown longstanding new york family with ties deep into the 17th century. They own Gardiner Island and her family still owns the island. Her father was a new york state senator. They were in washington frequently for the social seasons and she was wellknown at the white house and was well known to the daughters of the tylers and was even known to come over not just for the levees, but to do things like quiet games of whisked. The family knew her quite well. She was quite beautiful and quite rambunctious and very well educated both here and in europe. So it made her quite a charming woman to be around. And she quickly caught the without president s i . She quickly caught the without president s i. This moved shockingly quickly. We have to establish the difference in age between the two. Yes. Julia gardiner is 30 years almost exactly younger than john tyler. And so when they got married, she was 24 and he was 54. One of the Amazing Things we told you how many children john tyler had. One of his grandchildren is still alive and inhabits Sherwood Forest which is the tylers home in the tidewater area of virginia. You are looking at a picture of it right now. He and his wife are residents of the house but also make it available for tours. Harrison tyler is his name, hes 84 years old and we visited him recently in Sherwood Forest where he told us the story of the faithful event that brought julia and john tyler together. So in march of 1844, the ship came to the naval yard in washington and this sale down the potomac and when they got to fort belvedere, they put a barge into the bay. The ship turned around and went back to washington. Some wanted to fire the gun again and made a request to the captain to find a gun which was turned down. As they are passing mount vernon, the request was changed to stop the ship and fire the gun in honor of our first president so they could not turn that down. So when the ship faced downstream, they fired the cannon and the right breach blew up and it killed seven people. Among them Sandra Gardiner as well as the secretary of state and secretary of the navy. Everybody downstairs felt the ship jerk when the gun exploded. So all the handsome young officers that were surrounding my grandmother who was 23 years old at the time and very beautiful. My grandfather had been trying to get to her and talk to her and he could not because of all the handsome young naval officers around. But when the explosion occurred and the ship should, they all rushed to go upstairs and do what they were trained to do. Electric standing there. Well she knew her father was up there so she fell in behind him my grandfather fell in behind her going up to the steps to the deck. A sailor came back and said dont let miss gardiner find out her father was dead. When she heard that my grandmother fainted right back into the arms of the president. He caught her tenderly and gently. So the ship did go and doc and when it docked, he picked her up and carried her down the gangplank. As they were going down, she came to. Later she wrote her mother saying the first thing she remembered was going down the gangplank in the arms of the president and she struggled and her head fell into the crook of his arm and she looked up into his eyes. She wrote her mother saying, i realize for the first time that the president love me dearly. We promised at the outset that there would be a tale of a secret marriage. So tell the story. June 26th, 1844, its only four months in to the disaster of the uss princeton socialist father has only been dead for four months and so theres still a period of mourning that should be publicly and appropriately observed. But john tyler has secured, even in that rough period of time, securing the permission of her mother for them to get married. She was worried about his financial situation and about whether or not he would be able to continue to a man or she was accustomed. And when he was able to do that sufficiently she gave her permission. They had a very small, private, secret wedding. In new york city. There are only a handful of people there. One of his sons, a couple of his political friends and a few members of her family. But the public did not know about it until the next. Day so the president disappears from washington and checks into a hotel in new york city and gets married. Yet shows up in the newspaper that well, hes just going off to basically for his health. Hes taking a vacation. He pops up in new york city and its in the newspaper in the next day. By the way, the president has just gotten married. To one of new yorks most prominent elite. People got swept about it. It was so soon after his wifes death. Although it really was not that soon after her death. They were very much concerned about the age difference. People were feeling that it was unfair to julia, that she was married to this man who was so much older than she was. A lot of people did not like that his daughters certainly did not. They thought it was too soon. They were very loyal to their mother, understandably. There was one daughter who never got over it, letitia. The other daughters made peace with it. The suns never had a problem, that that one daughter never reconciled with her stepmother. Julia tyler was quite a letter writer. Here is one of the letter she wrote to her mother about this event. The secrecy of the affairs on the tongue and the admiration of everyone. Everyone says it was the best managed thing they ever heard of. That the secret was. Let us go on to this. This could be rather self revealing. The president says i am the best of diplomatists. I have commenced my auspicious rain and am in the quiet position of the president ial mansion. This is a 24yearold woman. What should we learn from this quote about her . She sees herself as queen of the land. She had spent some time in europe. After she had very notoriously posed for engraving where she was advertising a store, actually. That is something that respectable women did not do during that period. Her parents had taken she and her sister to europe where they were introduced at the court of louis philippe. She admired how the queen received her guest. It was she was seated of course on a bit of a pedestal. Julia decided to do the same thing for a time. She sought very much as, she was the first lady of the land and she was going to make the most of. It from a family perspective, does the president have an older daughter . What was the family reaction. The family reaction was as it was pointed out. At first, among the daughters, it was very negative. She said letitia never reconciled to it. Lizzy, it was three months even brief even before she acknowledged the marriage had taken place. For the youngest daughter, that she eventually came around, the oldest daughter came around but the sons were already familiar enough with julia that they were okay with that by then. Reading that quote, do we have the sense that this was a young woman with great aspirations or was this really a love match . I think that there is probably a little bit of both of that. Its tough for us to divide. Mainly because the correspondence between them. Whatever happened in terms of their courtship, we know that soft john is writing she experience on its. He is engaging in that kind of very cavalieresque way of courting her. With her, it depends on who you believe in terms of what the goals are. She ends up being his biggest supporter and defender. Thanks to some very timely advice from her mother, was able to really put that into action. A question from claire. Hi clare. Hi. I just wanted to say that two years ago, a couple of us went to the sure would plantation and tylers grandson was there and he spoke to us for about an hour. He was very gracious. I wondered if you could just discuss a little bit about the connection with william and mary. Thank you. Wow there connection with william and mary goes back to the very be good beginning. You cannot separate them from the tyler family at all. Even to the present date. Harrisons father was president of william and mary. His father john tyler had obviously gone to william and mary and had been chancellor and william and mayor. His father john had gone to william and mary and the place is asked tied with the tilers the university of virginia is tied with Thomas Jefferson. Another quote which may give indication of a match between the tylers. This is julia writing about the president again in a lot really, do you think there was ever man so equal to any emergency . It is a sort of inspiration for his ideas are expressed at the moment of any emergency with perfect fluency and effect. Question from rachel. How did Julia Gardner feel about becoming a sleeve owner. She comes from a family of slaveowners. New york does not abolish slavery until 1817. Gardiner she is much born into the slave culture is anybody living. Where they sleeved in the white house in the 1840 . The tylers would have brought enslaved people with them. We know that when the peacemaker, the gun blew up on the princeton, one of the enslaved men owned by tyler was killed. So clearly, he had some of his enslaved people there in the white house with them. He talked earlier about julia tyler having done this advertisement. She earned the moniker of the rows of long island. She brought that sensibility to her job, her eight months as the first lady. It is written in some books that she actually had the services of what would be thought of as a press agent . Honda august the president himself did not have a press agent. No, not at all. She left publicity. The more notorious, the better. She made it a point of cultivating the friendship of a reporter, and she would report what was happening in the white house in terms of the social events and he gave her a lot of personal attention and the articles that he wrote about her. She was out there in a way that, as i indicated before, respectable women did not do, but this is a new era. This is the time when Womens Movement is underway, and interesting lee enough, someone like julia tyler sort of fits into a certain extent. Shes very conservative in some ways, but in terms of breaking through the traditional way that women should behave, shes doing it in a way that other women are not at that time. This series is called influence an image. Lets spend a few minutes on the image. Question in addition to having the beloved publicity and having someone helping her with press, she had these young women who traveled with her. They became known as the best over shins. How is she using . Them it seems that which she did would develop her own click. The notion that a first lady could not possibly be alone. That she is representing, and this is an interesting point. Shes representing something much bigger. She had these young women who are joining her. They called them the versions. She really believed that she was representing something much bigger than just being the first lady. It requires a very cautious shaping of image as an element of political communication. She receives her guests surrounded by these women all dressed in white. What was the public reaction to this . They love it or criticize . It she seemed to be able to do no wrong. She had her critics, but a lot of people left her. She also brought dancing to the white house. She brought the waltz, she taught the polka. She brought a number of things to the white house but i think that when you are starting to get into the perceptions of that, and it does work both ways, that especially with the growth of the abolition press starts to see these kinds of things that truly is doing, this level of extravagant is being another example of the corruption of the sleeve party. How during the distressed economic period, how can they be possibly doing that . Theyre gathering all their wealth and benefits by the fact that they own other people. In terms of the growth of that abolitionist press and the abolitionist send people just to keep an eye on the tyler white house and report back. What yulia is doing and fact and some quarters very detrimental to the image while in other quarters its very beneficial to supporting the idea of the empirical imperial president. She she redeems herself when she responds to she writes a letter says, you need to take care of business at home. Youve got people from the lower class who are starving. She does not say slavery is right, but she does imply that slavery is not as bad as what is happening. Joe from pennsylvania. Hi, i love your series. Whats your question. I read somewhere that john tyler played the violin and did any of his whites plane a Musical Instrument thank you doing . No i havent the . Faintest clue. John tyler certainly played the violin and if you go to Sherwood Forest you will see the violent. And julia play the guitar. Speaking of music an image making it said that she was the one who had the idea of hail to the chief being played whenever the president entered a room. That may have been mrs. Polk. Is that right . No evidence here. She was rather fascist fashion conscious and were beautiful outfits, this should become a trendsetter for women at the time . I dont know. Was it had it become the point, do we known, where women were beginning to watch what the first lady wore and imitate these things . Well, i think that this gets into the development of Mass Communication of the period and really what youre able to do in terms of emulating dress, that while engravings are certainly appearing in more and more newspapers, youre still relying mainly on the written word in order to be able to get across the impression of any kind of any kind of clothing. So in a particular way, you might be able to set a trend if shes wearing veil Dolly Madisons turbans or Something Like that. But for the most part its not until much later when there are many more images that are able to show up in a more Sophisticated Technology speaking, American Press that youre able to get to the point where you have trends that can be identified in order to move on. Julia tyler was also very political and interested in her husbands political career and we move on to the influence part of her role as first lady, again eight short months that she was in this role. She was very much involved in a major policy issue that weve talked about or referenced already and thats the annexation of texas. We return now to Sherwood Forest for panie tyler, the spouse of the president s grandson, talks about julias lobbying for this policy. She lobbied politically phenomenally, oh dear, for her husband. She was immensely dedicated to the concept of the annexation of texas to the union. During that period, she was able to sway john c calhoun, who is a kinsman of my mothers, from South Carolina and she was able to sway john c. Calhoun to vote for the annexation of texas and she worked on henry clay but i dont know whether she really was successful and i but she took henry clay out to dinner and this is a woman without a chaperone, a president s wife, alone having dinner with henry clay and she didnt mind at all. And she wrote her mother a letter which i think is priceless. She says mother, mr. Clay was a little insulting. When i told him that my husband wanted him to vote for the annexation of texas, he said to mei am right, texas should not be annexed to the union and mrs. Tyler, i want you to know that id rather be right than be president. and i replied,my dear sir, my husband is both. i truly think that the reply is almost better than the statement from clay which we hear so frequently. How significant was julia tylers role in the ultimate decision to annex texas . Well, you know, shes keeping tabs of where people stand because she is going to congress, shes listening to debates. Shes trying to twist the arms. I dont think she is that important to it. She is representing her husbands interest certainly. She supports that but whether or not she has influence over any particular congressman, i am not so sure about that. Do you have an opinion about that . Well, she certainly believes she has a lot of influence. I mean i am with dr. Medford in thinking that her there are much more complicated balls in the political era over the texas annexation issue then anything that Julia Gardiner tyler is going to solve, especially in those months after the election and people know that james polk is going to be the next president. The treaty to annex the treaty to annex texas had already been defeated by the senate and they have to come up with a new, perhaps not terribly constitutional way of trying to accomplish this if theyre going to accomplish it at all. And so they do have to go through these machinations of the joint resolutions for december of about 1844 but that involves much broader political questions in terms of where people are from in this political realignment of america that is going on at the time. Theres youre the whigs are breaking down, the, you know obviously the republicans are long broken down, therere the antijacksonians and so but she firmly believes that she is responsible. John tyler believes that she is responsible when on march 1, 1845 he signs the joint resolution that annexes texas, he gives her the pen the gold pen that he signed it with and she put it around her neck and wore it as a trophy. Lets take our next question it is from haren and green felt california. Yes hello . You are on. Welcome. Yes, my question is about john tylers second wife julia. In the years after he left the presidency at the time when the civil war began he was trying to stop virginia from succeeding but he was unsuccessful. So later he supported the Secession Movement in virginia and because of that he was considered a traitor and but he died in 1862. And so my question is how did his wife julia try to redeem his name, his good name, after he died in the years following the civil war. Well actually were going to let that story unfold over the next 15 or 20 minutes. Thank you for asking the question. Thats where were going to move on in just a couple of minutes. Let me ask you about, as youre talking about the evolving role of the first lady. We learned that dolly madison, here im bringing up her name yet again, practice the art of parlor politics and she and that she was emulated by her successors. Is this the first instance of a first lady getting much more personally involved in a political issue than we know of . Especially when you are talking about a matter of public legislation on public policy. I think that its tough to find another first lady was so overtly engaged in a kind of effort whether its whether its that level influence is successful is meaningful or not, she is certainly being out there actively supporting her husbands position on annexation. She is talking to everybody she can about it, she is writing a great deal about it, shes holding a lot of social events at the white house in order to influence that piece of legislation. So if were talking about a first lady thats being involved in a matter of National Public policy and being involved explicitly so, i think that maybe you can peg that to julia tyler. Well, heres a question about first ladies and their perceived influence. Jennifer sherman asked on twitter, flotus tyler and flotus, for those of you who havent gotten to washington is first lady of the United States. Thats kind of from the secret service lingo i think believe she had a lot of influence and rightly so. Based on the first lady seen thus far, do you think they all felt this way, that they were influential women as spouses of the president ial husbands . N i am not so sure that all of them wanted to be. Thats the first thing. Shes perhaps the first who really wants to get involved in that way. The other women i think are willing to simply play the traditional role, although, you know, you have some women who may be saying all kinds of things to their husbands. Theyre not making it public. We dont know exactly what theyre saying to their husbands in terms of that influence. But in terms of influencing outside of their own household, its not likely that they even care to to serve in that capacity, most of them. Next excuse me. Next is a question from linda, is it spiral or spiral, oklahoma . It is spiral. Welcome. Good evening. I would like to know how does it affect his relationship with julia and their marriage with, you know, their children from letitia . How did the relationship. . Thank you for taking my call. Thanks very much. You hit upon that earlier but did the criticism from the daughters affect their marriage . I think thats the question. No. There is no evidence that in fact because the daughters came around relatively soon except again for laetitia, they really became a very big fairly close knit family all gathered there, for the most part, at Sherwood Forest. The civil war does a lot of that in bringing them more close together because because the members of the family that are cast in other parts like her son, robert, who is in philadelphia, they all have to come back to Sherwood Forest. But they do see start to see julia not necessarily as a stepmother but they refer to her some of them refer to her as a sister and they certainly come to love her and appreciate her and accept her into the family as such so that her children and and letitias children, although theyre considerable age difference, they do end up come more than reconcile, they become very, very close. You spoke to us earlier of whig party politics. John tyler was castigated by the whigs, essentially thrown out of the party for some of his positions. So he was a man without a president without a party. Absolutely. When the next election came around in 1844 so no chance of him being nominated. Especially since he had alienated the other party as well. laughter . So there was no one there to really support him. It was certain to be a oneterm presidency. Absolutely. And with his loss then, how did the tylers recognize their departure from washington . With parties, of course, and champagne. laughter the tylers the last two weeks of the tyler of the tyler presidency is really nothing but Julia Gardiner tyler at her Julia Gardiner tyler at her absolute extravagant best. They start off with a party for like 3,000 people. Two weeks later, they have a party to celebrate James Knox Polk and the annexation of texas and john tyler then says you can no longer say that im a man without a party. laughter and they returned to Sherwood Forest. Were going to see a little bit of their life there next before we do that, lets take a question from robin in ormond beach, florida. Hi, robin. Hi there im following along at home with my first lady flash cards and i have a question with regard to fashion, was the headdress still prevalent in the early reporters of first ladies . With first lady harrison, was that for matronly women first ladies or was that just personal preference . And also for taylor, when was the first when did the first president wear what we would regard as a modern necktie . What year . Thank you. Thank you. The development of the of the modern necktie from the cravat, i think youre starting to get to youre starting to get well into the late 19th 19th century by the time youre seeing Something Like that. The way that the way that the fashion of president s im shocked going into this subject. But the way that develops over time is really interesting in the 1820s and 1830s after james mineral leaves the white house. James monroe was the last of the folks who sort of held on to the 18th century way of dressing. And so youre able to see much more modern dress after that. On the women side of the fashion question. We saw and the met furred and Rachel Jackson also wearing the sort of head bond it as we did with annette harrison. Was that city versus country or regional . It has something to do with it but you see juliet tyler, you see something very different. You see the beads in her hair. She has feathers in her hair from time to time so she dresses very differently. So its probably more cosmopolitan with some of the first ladies because of the urban influence and age too. I think age does have something to do with it. Anna harrison was in her mid to late 60s. Umhum. And julia tyler, 24 years old when she came into the job so brought young sensibility with her. Well, they left washington in 1845 and returned to their home in the virginia tidewater area, the Sherwood Forest. By the way, how did it get its name . It got its name because during one of during one of john tylers breaks with the whigs, he was referred to as robin hood. And so he embraced that and therefore called called their home Sherwood Forest and julia embraced it too. When she got there, she basically gave uniforms and gave new uniforms to the enslaved men who were there who rode their river boat. And so she gave bow and arrows as part of their cars insignia sewn on the color of their uniforms. Lets return to Sherwood Forest and learn more about what the tylers life was like after the white white house. Tylers john tyler was born in Charles City County at green way and he purchased this house at the end of his president ial term. He came down here once before he retired from the presidency and brought with him Julia Gardiner, they were married. She said, the hand of god and nature have been kind to my Sherwood Forest, but i can improve upon it, which she did. She had lacquer around the ceilings. She had the mouldings imported from italy. She had the mental piece is brought in from italy and the knock are on the front door has well you have to look hard to see it, it has sure would forest on it but it has been meticulously polished through the years. That was one of her contributions to the house. Julia and her mother were very close and we are exceedingly fortunate to have many letters written between julia and her mother from this plantation in the hot summer weather. This house is only one room wide because you want the breezes to go from the north to the south and from the south to the north. And so they would sit in the hall quite frequently and she sat in the open doorway that led to the south porch and wrote letters to her mother and quite frequently she commented on the president who keeps kept his feet on the banister and would read his newspaper and throw it on the floor. In the gray room is a table. It is the table upon which we are told, john tyler and julia tyler had breakfast. After he had been around the house. After his horseback riding he would go to that table and had breakfast with his wife. Her mother writes her and says, i understand from other people that visit you that you sleep until 9 00 in the morning and that the president brings you breakfast and bed. She says please, do not take advantage of an elderly gentleman who dots upon you. Julia rights to her mother frequently what she is doing on this plantation. She reports almost every purchase a furniture in the house. Her Brothers David and alexander who were students at princeton became, upon the suggestion of mrs. Gardiner, her buying agents. When the mirror comes, she is very distressed because the edges of it cover the edge of the window facing. Her mother writes her back and says, do not be so picky. She did love to entertain and we do have the record. Her sister margaret, who came here very frequently. The portrait is a portrait of julia and margaret. She was two years younger than margaret. This portrait was painted to represent the water and the background. They were very very young when the portrait was done. The ball that she had for margaret started at 9 00. She said they danced the virginia rail and the waltzed until the sun rose. The family champagne flowed unceasing lee. Among one thing that julia did here as well for entertainment, is they allowed all the house servants children to play continuously with the children of the big house. The letters, julia tyler speaks of her children playing with the children in yard. She speaks of their dancing with the children in the yard. The supervision of the house servants, and there were many, there were a total of almost 90 slaves. A vacillating number between 61 and 92 on the plantation. There were 13 house servants here. They were totally her supervision as well. It cared for the medical care of the other servants in the plantation. They were happy in this household. She refers to the melody of his voice. She always refers to his intelligence. She had a wonderful time here. These newlyweds that commenced raising that large family that we talked about. Seven children that were born to the tylers before he died in 1862. A question. We refer to the slavery issue and the country itself is marching toward the civil war. What was john tylers post white house role in that momentous period of time . An 1861, there was an attempt to stay secession, and john tyler was very instrumental in that last effort to do that. There was a peace Conference Held in washington. He was very much a part of that. Once that failed, he decided to back the confederacy. To back succession. When he died, he had been elected to the Confederate Congress. He was very much a secessionist. When he died, his coffin was covered with the confederate flag. The north, the union, did not acknowledge his having passed. We have a former president of the United States who gets elected to the Confederate Congress. Put that into perspective for us. Its extraordinary really. John tyler, it suggested that he really tried to stamp secession. Not sure how much his heart was in it. In the washington peace conference at the old willard hotel, especially after there was a meeting during the middle of the conference where Abraham Lincoln would not back off from his pledge to halt the expansion of slavery. He is all in when it comes to secession. He is likening secession to the 1776, virginia has finally recovered all of the sovereignty that it had yielded to the federal government and 17, in the constitution. They are back in the state that they were in 1776 in order to be able to achieve their independence. And, virginia, for a brief period is again a sovereign independent state. Hes instrumental in the negotiations that bring virginia full board into the confederacy. One of the interesting things about the washington peace conference is that at that exact time that hes here in washington obstinately trying to ward off civil war, his granddaughter letitia is in montgomery, alabama confederate in a new capital confederacy weve been showing you some of julia tylers letters. Here is one that she wrote to her mother about the civil war. She wrote the southerners are worn completely wrought up to it, and will not be tampered with any longer. If such a thing should occur, it will be more unfortunate for the north. Not a good predictor of what ultimately happened. Her husband died in 1862. How did the civil war and patchouli is life especially after john died . What happened to her after john died . He leaves, and she goes to Staten Island to live with her mother. She spends the entire i think she actually goes to bermuda. He is not a your would forced. She is impacted financially by the war, because she loses her enslaved labor first of all. She does not really she returns there to try to get into some kind of order, but she does not live there again, i dont believe. She spends the remaining years, i believe, in richmond. She has rented a home there. She spends a lot of time in richmond, but not in the county. What is the Public Perception of her post war . In the south, quite good. North, not quite so good. She is still referred to as in the south, as the ex president ial recess, and something that she insists upon. John tylers memory is still revered in the south after the war is being somebody who is able to legitimize the cost of confederacy. Julia gardiner is certainly contributing tyler to this loss cause of the holy southern cause. She never there is never a kind of rehabilitation of the husband because in the southeast doesnt feel like she needs to be rehabilitated except when it comes to getting our pension which is something she desperately needs. They have to homes, they have sure would forest and a summer home near hampton, virginia, and they which goes through the same kind of damage that shirt force goes through. She has to sell that property just to maintain sure would force, which again is fit for the family to live in. She spends a lot of the time fighting for her pension, which she does not get until 1881, when she is awarded 1200 dollars when per year. The argument against it is that yes, she may have been first lady, but your husband actually became a trader to the United States, so there is no reason why we should ever ontario. On the phone is christopher leahy, an associate professor of history new york. Sponsors the coeditor of the Julia Gardiner tyler papers. Christopher leahy, what is the broad scope of what we can learn about this woman and the white house from her papers . Her papers are very illuminate. Two major collections. One at the sterling library, the other major collection at the college of william and mary. We can learn pretty much everything about her life from the time that she marries john tyler in 1844, until just about the time she dies in 1889. A very rich source that cover every aspect of her life and her childrens lives. Weve been spending the past 45 minutes trying to paint a portrait of her. What would you like to add to that from her work with her papers . I think that history tends to remember julia for the frivolity and the fact that she was a very young first lady for eight months. I think that actually obscures her to character. Remember, she lived 27 years after her husband died. She had another life, literally, another life after her husband passed away in 1862. Her papers reveal her to be a very strong woman, a practical woman. Shes very serious, selfish short. Adaptable, and very devoted to her family. Shes quite tenacious about her family, particularly her children. She felt her interests were being threatened. What is happening with these papers . Is there contemporary interest beyond iran scholarship . Talk to us about the historical interest of julia tyler . The main problem with julias papers is that she has penmanship that only a mother could love. Fortunately, my wife has become very adept at reading, going through the work, through the papers. They are very difficult to read, which i think is part of the reason why scholars have not really exploited them for the potential that they hold. I think her work hopefully will bring more of her actual experiences to life, particularly the post president ial years. Particularly the years after her husband passed away in 1862. How did you get interested . I did my dissertation on john tylers prepresident ial career, and i am currently working on a manuscript, a book manuscript on john tyler and it just seemed the natural fit. A natural progression from there once i got into the Julia Gardener tyler paper, i realize that was not good at reading it because of her penmanship. My wife is very courageous. She dove into them, transcribing them for me so that i could do my work on the writing and. If someone is interested and learning more, or any of the papers published online so that they could beat them for themselves . Yes. I think there are some online. Again, very difficult to read. She had a tendency to write going left to right, and she would turn the paper and go left to right upside down. Its a very difficult process trying to read these. I do not know exactly there are any online, how easy that would be for research. Thank you for telling us about your scholarship and we look forward as your work progresses, to learning more about the spirit of American History through the writings of julia tyler. Thank you for your time. Thank you very much. We have a few minutes left. I want to get a couple more calls in. Next one is a call from bill. In fishers, indiana. Hi. Enjoying your show very much. Enjoying your two guests as well, very much. I was wondering, was julia a religious person and i was wondering about her conversion to cathal a system and how that influenced her later life. Thank you. I think i would leave julia to wish she religious, do you know . Not really, that she does join the Catholic Church leader in life. Im not sure why she actually does that, but perhaps the church gains more by that then she does. There is always been that tension between protestants and catholics in this country, even though we do not have an official religion. Most people think of america as being protestant. But the fact that she did have a former First Lady Joining the Catholic Church in such a public way, i think sort of elevated the status of cathal a system. Win in her life did she do . This i think it was later in life. Much later. A few years before she died, i believe. John tyler is not an especially religious guy. Even by the episcopal episcopal standards. Letitia, his first wife, was a strong episcopalian. He admired the strength of her faith. But john tyler was more of a jeffersonian, epicurean more than anything. Else you are on now, fred from san francisco. Hi. The three most powerful men in washington at the time where of course clay and cal whom and western. What was julias attitude towards those three men . She certainly would have been very comfortable with cal whom. Not so much clay. Even though tyler had supported clay at one point. But as tyler became more separated from the whig party then she would have gone in that direction as well. Webster, i am not so sure but certainly calhoun would have been the person that she would have been closest to in terms of politically. At least webster had stuck within the tylers cabinet longer than any of the other original members of the harrison cabinet. But i think youre absolutely right, i think it does come down to where really were they when in terms of john tylers politics as for exactly how she felt. Margaret is watching us in fort river new jersey. Hi margaret you are on the air. Yes hello im enjoying this very much. I was wondering what president tyler died from . I read that he was elected a virginia representative to the Confederate Congress and that when he was attending a session he died just a few minutes after midnight in 1862 and he was 71 years old. And also how old was he when he father his last child . All right. This question Taylor Stoermer do you know . He was 71, he was never sworn in as a member of the Confederate Congress. Since it was early in 62, from what we know he had caught a cold indicted that age. The last trial that they had the last child they had i think he was 68. And she was two years old when he died. Yes. Next is a question from Darlington Austin texas. We have a texan after this big History Lesson in your states annexation what your question . My question is was the controversy over the annexation of texas only about slavery or were there any other considerations such as considerations about the location and geography of texas being coast to mexico . Thank you so much. It was all about slavery in the 1840s and the 1850s. You cant really separate the whole struggle over the expansion of slavery into the west. It is about texas, it is about kansas later on, it is slavery front and center. Now we have about three or four minutes left and as we close our discussion here. We learned that Juliette Tyler was a very young woman and very adept in publicity and creating an image for herself. How did the un nighted states view her death or was she largely forgotten by then . Did she call upon those Public Relations skills to ensure her legacy . Not really by the end of her life. Around 1889, obviously there are a lot of other things going on in the country by then. She had largely been focusing on her family and perhaps a personal legacy in that sense and maintaining what the family could hold on to. In terms of the broader type of working on that image later on in life, so much of her energy was devoted to other things. We have talked about a few things she did to advance the role first lady in this country. How should we remember her historically . As the vibration person she was. Quite a bit ambitious and i think her story can bays the possibilities for first ladies. She was able to do some things that were significant. And what would you say about that question . What is her legacy . I say the jury is still out. I think one of the great things about this particular thing is letting us reevaluated what we mean about the first lady and her institution as part of the presidency. Again, we see the possibilities for a woman in a position and you can also see perhaps some of the limitations on the other hand. So, i think maybe by the end of this series if we can get back together again and talk about what weve learned about what is the first lady and therefore see what julia tylers legacy really is. What should we think about john tylers presidency . Im glad you got that question. Oh my gosh. I cannot change my opinion of him. He is a person who turned his back on his own party okay . That is one thing. He supported a cause that was actually creating serious issues for a whole group of people, a whole race of people. He was more than willing to perpetuate slavery forever if possible. And so i can separate his legacy from that. Next week we will learn about the life of his successor in the white house and we look forward to you being involved with that when we do that. Let me say thank you at this point to our guests on the harrison and tyler presidencies. Thank you to Howard University here in washington d. C. Thank you to both of you. This is produced in cooperation with the white house historicals ocean and we thank them for their help. First ladies, influence and image. On American History tv. It examines the private lives and the public roles of the nations first ladies through interviews with top historians. Thursday night, we look at sarah polk, margaret taylor, abigail fillmore, jane peters and harriet lane. Watch first ladies, influence and image, thursday at 8 pm eastern on American History tv. Next, on history bookshelf, historians david and jean hyde learn talk about their book, the rise of Andrew Jackson. Mid, manipulation and the making of modern politics. Inh