Live on cspan three online at suspended work, or listen live on the free suspend radio app. Rachel wasnt a fan of anything that took interjection away from her. Her preferences didnt influence her,. She ran the plantation or the farm and kept everything in order. She might not have been like Abigail Adams but she could write a nice letter and had night, jewelry. As he rose in politics, that was an ugly sore. She was called names. The campaign was so bitterly fought that a faction went all out, completely calling her a derogatory term. Rachel was good garbage for them. She dreaded going to washington. She said id rather be a doorkeeper in the house of god then go there. Before she left to go to washington, she died. In 20, eight rituals niece was 21 years. Old she became the white house hostess. Her life was perfect. For all the negatives they had to say about Andrew Jackson they loved emily. She received education on how to embroider, music proper manners and etiquette, it was that kind of education that enabled her when rachel dies to slide into the role of white house hostess. The woman liked her, and the womens opinions mattered. She was polished. She knew had to do things. Emily that jackson has it falling out with, over peggy affair. Jackson couldnt deal with this kind of going on against his will write in his own. Home for 12, years 1829 to 1841, no president s wife served as first lady. In this program, will learn about two administrations led by wouldve president s, and the various women who served as the first ladies. Up first on suspense first ladies, influence and image, Andrew Jacksons presidency. A story of personal politics, tragedy, gossip and in a window in washington societal. Ambition thanks for being with us in our continuing series on the of americas first ladies. Tonight the interesting jet sony an area of. Here to tell us more about that time period and the women who served in the white house to support the president to guests. First, michael anderson, object sony an america story, in and in his past he served as the superintendent, and pat brady is back at our table tonight. She is a firstlys biographer and historian. Her biography of Rachel Jackson is called a being so gentle, the frontier let story of rachel and Andrew Jackson. Michael henderson, help people understand the volume, the amount of change that Andrew Jackson brought to washington when he went to the white house. Oh, good heavens, jackson is the first westerner. Weve had virginia president s from the also before. That jackson is completely different. He grew up in the front here. The change is enormous, socially the changes enormous. Even though hes a planter, hes not of the old planter class of the south that the previous president s had been from, and nor was he, you know like a new england are either. This is a westerner and he brings very different values and very different ambitions to the white house. Were going to learn that even though he was a without president , the most of his former wife is described as hung over the white house throughout the years. There why is that . She was the woman of his life. He loved her. She was his touchstone. And when he, should be died of just a few months before he went to be integrated, he was bereft, he really was. He spent all of his time thinking about her and her memory, and having her pictures, portraits in his bedroom so he could think of her. It really changed the way the First Administration went. We need to delve into the campaign of 1828 to really understand the presidency that ensued. So 1828 was a year of what in campaigning for the presidency. How did the change . It was the first time that we didnt have a majority of electors. So by the constitution, the whole election was given over to the house of representatives. So you have these multiple, you know, competing factions in the house of representatives. If crawford from georgia, you have henry clay, if tell, who you have jackson. Jackson, he won the popular vote but not the electoral college. So when the politicking was going on in the house of representatives, there was an opportunity to make deals. One of the deals that was probably made was that henry plea would become the Vice President and adams would win the election. That was seen as a corrupt bargain. Once we come out of that election, the whole buildup to that election was that was a corrupt bargain. I need to clarify. You just described 18 24 7 siege for 1828. So the 1828 campaign was basically old enmities playing, out how did the 1828 play out . Well in 1820 for jackson wasnt quite sure that he was ready to be president , he wasnt quite sure that he was the right man. However when he won the vote and it was stolen from him, then he knew he was meant to be president , and that election he thought had still in the peoples presidency. When he came out in 1820, eight he came out fighting. And whats interesting about the campaign in so many ways, it was a prestage of modern campaigning, and the fact that he and his surrogates were out on the stump as it were. I read that as many as 800,000 more americans voted in that election than in the previous. How did he do that and how did he think of that idea of campaigning . Well a lot of it was the growing development of an Actual National party that Martin Van Buren had been working on, its also a time of technological change, we have railroads and newspapers and we have all sorts of new communication methods that are coming to bear as well. So we have white meal suffrage in all of the states. There are more people voting, more interest in voting, more opportunity to hear about it. More western states voting. Rachel jackson became an issue in the 1828 campaign. This is the first time thats in our early countries history that people targeted the wife of the president ial candidate in the campaign . To the extent that it happened. Abigail adams had taken some heart hits from the press as well. Being referred to as madame president , president first. So thats the, first time the sort of thing happened. But this was the first time someone actually went out attempting to find dirt, found out what they thought was dirt and publicized widely. Who was the first person looking for the dirt . Charles hammond. He was in cincinnati any hated jackson and wanted to see jackson go down, and he didnt care what it. Took and then when he found out shes been divorced he really despised her. He was very regularly fundamentalist. It was a moral issue for him. He thought she would disgrace the white house. How did John Quincy Adams play into this campaign against breach will jackson . Well adams, what am i trying to say, he didnt do it but he didnt stop. It hammond was one of his party hacks in a way. He sort of sat back and said well look at that charles hammond, isnt he amazing. And we saw in the open political cartoons that were all targeted, was this a new phenomena . Yes. And then call a lady a, whos been married for 36 years a horror, and adulterous, a bigamist, that was unprecedented. Yes. So what was she accused of doing . She was accused of being married before she met jackson. She was a big missed basically. She was married before very unhappily to a man who treated her and her family very badly. Her whole family hated him. And out west, didnt leave that you had to stick by your man for 50 years if he was horrible. They believed in dissolving and unhappy marriage, and so they did. And also criticism of her and this western frontier, lack of class, lack of modesty. She smoked a pipe. That sums it up. She had an accent, tennessee, not east coast. Were opponents concerned about what the image for the new country would be if they made it to the white house . Yes. Theres a strong class issue that runs through all of this, and its difficult to talk about in a country that supposedly doesnt have class. But theres certainly a strong class issue to it and with this person the virtuous enough to represent the United States, and is this person gentle enough to represent the United States . Exactly. So the great tragedy is after this campaign, he went to the white house, and she is prepared to go with him and then what happens . She dies. At first she thought that the situation was to volatile that people might be rude to her, they might snap, or by people i mean other women. She thought about not going, and then they decided that that would be admitting that they were wrong, which didnt believe that they were wrong. So she decided to go, and then on december 22nd, she died of a heart attack. And she was buried in the dress she planned to wear. The satin ground she planned to wear at the inaugural ball. This is the first video, tonight well have videos throughout, taking to places and introduce you to the people who know more about the life, and show you some of the artifacts of jacksons. Were going to take you to the hermitage, their home in tennessee, and learn about the totems that Andrew Jackson carry throughout his life. Its honored rachel. We dont know what kind of Health Rachel was in overall, but its apparent that threat the fall of 1828, her health was not very good. But the campaign for president that jackson was going through had a huge effect on her health. This is a letter that jackson wrote on the day that rachel actually died, december 22nd, 28, hes writing to his friend, Richard Keith called. In the letter, he describes the onset of rituals illness, final illness. He says that she was a few days, hence, suddenly by unflinchingly attacked with paint in her Left Shoulder and breast and such was the contraction of the breast that suffocation was apprehended. It was clear that she was in very serious condition. But he talks about getting ready to go to washington like hes just assuming that shes going to get better, and awful go. But unfortunately, she didnt pass away later in the day. In the case we have a cap, according to the stories of her death, jackson called for her to be bled when she died. Jackson was a big believer in heroic medicine, medicine that if it didnt kill you would curio. So even though she was clearly not alive anymore, he asked the doctor to bleed her, and supposedly theres a small stain on this cap, the little blood that did come out when the doctor tried to plead. Her we also have a lancet which is what they would have used to cut open. Then some things about his morning. A black calling card that jackson had printed suggesting hes in deep mourning, a poem that was published and then later printed until, talking about the death of mrs. Jackson. And then a book that was given to him by a friend of his, that has a long description. Its a book called the mourner comforted, you know, tell him read things and it would help them along. Jackson was completely devastated. And for her to digest as he was preparing the plans to get on the steamboat and go to washington was more than he could deal with. This pendant was painted while he was in washington after rachels death. He had it with him pretty much all the time, either in his pocket, on a beaded chain or struck that he could wear around his neck, on his bedside table at night, so that he could see it in the morning when he awakened. And she was with him pretty much all the time even when she had passed away. This is a book that was very important to jackson. This could have been reaches songbook. She made this cover for her book so the book would stay nice. After her death, jackson kept a number of things like this close at hand so he could refer to them. Another way of keeping ritual close. Jackson had a habit after rachel died of purchasing were using or keeping things that reminded him of her. This is central hallway of the hermitage mansion. Although the house burned, jackson insisted that they repurchase the same wallpaper that rachel had chosen for the space. Shape like, that it reminded him of her, and he wanted it here. This is jacksons bedroom, and after rachels death, she was never far away from him. He kept many mementos of her around. And in the early 18 thirties, he had a project which was a special favorite of his copied so that he could have it hanging over the fireplace, it would be the first think hes on the morning in less than he saw at night. According to the traditions, stories that were passed down in the family, he would go up to her to every evening about sunday, on and to spend time out there either thinking about her or thinking about the problems of the day and wanting to feel her close by or something. Well i want to tell you that this program is interactive, we welcome your participation in theres lots of ways that you can do that. First of all, you can call us and our phone lines are two zero two five eight five three eight eight zero, if you live in the eastern or central time zones. If you live out west, our numbers are two zero to five eight five three eight eight one. So heres a tweet from Sheldon Cooper that writes even though rachel never makes it to washington d. C. , the chip plans for what the jacksonlee food were should be like . There she did. She didnt like extensive entertaining. She was very religious, which he liked to do was here at the leading pictures of the day. Have family and friends lined up around her in the white house. I think it would have been a very does domesticated white house. The same person asked another question, its a good time to ask. Given her public scrutiny did any famous dignitaries attend her funeral . Do we know the answer to that . No she was buried two days after she died. So given the way news traveled and people traveled in those days, nobody could have made it. But all the local dignitaries, all the businesses in town, all the church bells tolled, everything close down and there was a huge attendance at her funeral, but not people from away. Well have time to step back and tell a little bit of the love story as you call it, the great love story between racial and Andrew Jackson. First of all who is Rachel Jackson . She was the daughter of one of the first families of tennessee. She and her whole family came to tennessee the 8000mile river trip, in which many people on the trip died. They were on a flat boat and they survived. And they were some of the earliest white settlers, and her family was quite prominent in the area. She was really part of the generally of tennessee. And we have a question from twitter of someone wanting to know how unusual was for someone at the age of 24 to be on their second has spent . Was that considered unusual at the time . Not particularly. To put that all the time, particularly on the frontier. You couldnt live alone. People remarried because needed to have the support in order to live. The difference here was that they divorced. Yes. Well they had the phrase they are now has been and now wife. Windows and widowers always remarried. It was very peculiar for someone not to remarry. Her husband was 17 years her senior . This name was lewis roberts. Not that much. Ten years her senior. How did they meet . How did they make the match . Her family love the area of nashville because the war between the whites and the indians was so ferocious and so strong. But its wanted to stay, theyre the indians want to them to not be there. It was a battle for territory and the donelsons left kentucky, and thats where the met lewis robards. Why did they leave . He was abusive. It took the support of her family, it took courage but more than that. She would never have left him if her family had not supported her because you cant live without a family at west. And she adored her family and they adored her. Who was Andrew Jackson at the time she met him . Nobody. Basically. He had been in local militias, and had studied the law but that was about it. How did they meet . He was one of the borders at her moms house, or moms really palisade. They had a fort where they lived. And he was in one of the cottages with another bachelor lawyer who is there. And you say why is one of the gentle renting at the colleges. Second of all, in terms of this being a long going, war have extra guns on hand as i was a good thing. Explain more about tennessee in that time period and what the region of the country looks like. This is the far west at this point. Its recently settled. Most settlers from tennessee either came by river the won, where they came over the mountains. But this was still very rough country. Not even as settled as kentucky. Next is a question, this is from mitchell in nashville tennessee. Hi, mitchell youre on the air. Yes i noticed earlier on the show that you put up that rachels birthday was in june, and it included the actual month and date. My understanding was that no one actually knew what her exact dates of birth was other than the, year is this correct . Thats correct. The date isnt known at all. Its believed it was june because this part of the tradition, but even that is a little bit up in the air. Next a question from martha in california. Hi martha. Hi. I understood if im not mistaken that only White Property owners voted at the time. Is that correct . Thats correct. There was a growing thing. Certainly in the early days it was only White Property owners of a certain standing. As we move through the period, franchise expands to generally being way males. So Rachel Donelson meet the tall Andrew Jackson. There are attracted to each other, how did the mayors take place . Its more than attraction, its that all his life, jackson truly loved woman, he loved his mom for example. He couldnt see women be mistreated, really badly treated in any way. So his gallantry was involved with what he saw as abuse of this woman. And then when they fell in love the decided to elope tenacious which was spanish territory at the time. And how long did they stay there and come back to tennessee . They did. They stayed several months close to a year i believe. And when they came back this simply said oh were mary now. And her family including her mother said yes, this is our soninlaw, Andrew Jackson. And whos going to tell them no . People just accepted it because their family, neighbors, and friends accepted. It when did the details become apparent that the divorce was finalized and how . Well that was tricky because the diverse was filed for virginia by the husband. But there were stipulations in that settlement, in that it had to be posted a certain amount of time, and in certain places. He didnt go through with posting all of it right away. He was playing games with the whole divorce anyway. So whos at fault here . Will thats frigid to decide. Thats part of a judge but. He had to take it to court to kentucky, before a jury. And by that time, rachel and andrew had been living together as a married couple for two years. And so, when he accused her of adultery, she was in fact living with Andrew Jackson. And if she had gone back and fought it and should still be married to this person she hated, that made no sense. They ignored it and quietly remarried. When did the hermitage become their home . Away, my mind is going. Blank probably early in the 18th century. Yes they started in that area. He started at a bigger place. He got into some financial troubles and they moved into the hermitage which at that time was a long house. Our next video is a glimpse of rachel and Andrew Jacksons life at the hermitage. They came into the property in 1804. He was sort of retiring for a while. So when they first moved here, he spent a lot of time at home. The primary people who would have visited prior to the war of 1812 would have largely been friends and relations from the area. Rachel had a huge family. They all had lots of kids. Three were a lot of them and they were in and out all the time. Rachel is very close to her family. Jackson being an orphan crew very close to the family. Emily donelson, the house she grew up in is just less than two miles away from. Here then after the war of 1812 when he has become this national hero, there were people here are the. Time and rachel is acknowledged to be a pretty nice hostess, very cordial and welcoming. And during jacksons theme after the battle of new orleans, pretty much from 1859 on through the rest of reaches life, they had lots and lots of company and they had many, many parties are evening dinners for things here at the hermitage. And they were used to entertaining people who were used to find things, so they acquired a good deal of silver as they went along, such as the punch cups here. They would have been used for an Evening Party where probably some very highly liquored up punch was served. She had very very nice things, so this dual image of her as a frumpy country lady, she wasnt that exactly. I think it was more about her comfort in the big cities that it was about her actual appearance or clothing. Rachel was not a fan of anything that took Andrew Jackson away from the hermitage. During the war of 1812, there are letters from heard say things like do not let fame and fortune blinded to the fact that you have a home and a wife and i need you. And i think he knew pretty well that she would preferred him to just stay home and be plantation owner and rejection. This is the earliest letter we have projects wrote to rachel. It was written in 1976 when he was in east tennessee on business. Its addressed to her, my dearest heart. It says, its with greatest pleasure i sit down to right to you. Though i am absent, my heart rests with, you and with placing hopes i view the future period when i shall be restored to your arms. There might days of domestic sweetness. With, you the deer companion of my life, never to be separated from you again during this transitory and fluctuating life. The garden was always considered one of her really special places. Lots of comments from visitors about her gathering for hours to give to them when they left. There is one story when a young lady was here on her honeymoon, and she and her husband were headed to stay. She mentioned that the garden was very special to rachel, and when they were preparing to leave, to move on to the next stage of their honeymoon, she walked through the garden with rachel and rachel gathered flowers and give her opposey before they left. We are back talking about the jackson era with our two guests at the table, well take a question from to turn the. Asked dave murdoch asked, did Rachel Jackson provide political guidance to Andrew Jackson . I dont know that we know that. He was very politically shrewd himself, i think he took care of the political sphere himself. I would say know for sure. No records of such. We have a lot of their letters and their always personal or but theyre never about politics. We were talking before the Program Began objections very large personality, and how sure he was of his opinions. Will you tell our audience about that . He was absolutely sure about his beliefs, wholeheartedly. We saw people who disagreed with, him he often took that is a sign of enmity. And that was really difficult, because he was stuck in his. Ways so that would suggest that he may not have sought guidance from any other person. Well he seeks guidance from them. He would make his decision. But he couldnt stand was a friend or relative disagreeing with him because that was very personally dishonest as far as he was concerned. We will learn more about how that unfolds in his presidency as our conversation continues. Next is loy interim, north carolina. Welcome to the conversation. How many slaves to jackson have in tennessee, and with the same slaves travel with them to the white house . Thank you. Either of you know the answer to that . They have some 300 odd slaves, it was all rather large plantation. Nobody at the time would travel with a large number of slaves. They would bring perhaps a couple of personal servants but that had become if youre about as abolitionist sentiment grew in the north. It became less unless possible to bring slaves to free territories as washington for example. So he wins the election, comes to washington. He tells the story of the inaugural party. Will he leaves the inauguration, rise on horseback to the president s house and the public is invited. But there were about 20,000 people who had attended the. Integration its open to the public, this is the democratic republic, the people of the west and they crash the house and the rest of the tables and the drink all the wine. There was 1600 pounds of cheese that had been sent as a gift to the new president and was completely devour during this. Time the white house was really bitten up really bad. He left the party early. Over our past several programs weve been talking about the burgeoning in strong Washington Society that was developing in the town. How did it react to the opening of the white house to the masses . With her. Margaret smith he was quite social who kept diaries and letters said oh the, pity the pity. You know it wasnt the way in as with every other party after the integration. It was a part of the select few who came, not the public. Once the party, the Integration Party was over, this is a man described as being intense morning. Was the white house social for a few years after . The it wasnt social, first of, all that to refinish and replace on the troops in the chair, which sets where many boots have been trampling and put things together. Lets take a quick glimpse at america in that time period with Census Bureau statistics. This is what america in 1830, the population at this, point to 0. 9 million and now 24 states. Once again, more than 30 growth since the ten years earlier census. The 2 million slaves, 15 of the population, and the largest cities continue to be the east coast, new york, philadelphia, and baltimore. What else should people believe about the period of this country . Well incredible change in this period. Information revolution is comparable. Huge period of change. Weve gone from an agrarian, society decided that Thomas Jefferson was talking, about to being a society of multiple ethnicities, multiple religions, whips of new immigration, the railroad, the. Telegraph and what was happening to the north south unity at this time . We have the missouri crisis, which dissipates a quick fix, will put in one restate and one sleeve state and we will talk about slavery anymore. By the time that we get into the later twenties and early thirties, the specter of slavery is raising its head again. Its casting a shadow across the whole of america. Next question comes from mary in chatham, virginia. Hello mary. Hi, it was told because i didnt get in, earlier chatham is the county state of pennsylvania county, virginia. And we have an hour court house a portrait of rachel because she was born. Here in 1760, seven which was the year we broke off and organized our county, her father was a survivor and she supposedly left her when she was 12. And the gossip was that he had to leave town because they were kind of interested in some of his surveys. Anyway, we do have the site marked, and we have rocks left from the rain house. Thats great. Thinks, mary will pick it up from their. To know this part of her biography . Its where she was born and lived until she was 12 when they decided to go over the mountains and to the new territory. But basically we know nothing about her girlhood, we just scrap late that it was like the girlhood of either children on the western edges of settled territory. Okay youre on the air. I was calling to see if rachel had any children. No, despite rachels deep wish for children chenille, children she was one of 11, and those of her brothers and sisters who married had very large families as well. She had no children of her own, she adopted one of her twin sense that belong to her brother and sister in law when they were middle aged. So there was an Andrew Jackson jr. , who was actually her nephew. And will you talk about the creek boy . Yes and there was also another son. Jackson had been in battle and found, and had slaughtered many, people women and children, the engine infant and said can you tried to give it to a creek woman who is alive. She said you should kill him, youve killed all of his family anyway. Jackson takes home is sun and races him as his own. He writes a lot of letters to rachel saying theres something special, hes an orphan. I was an orphan. Theres some reason i found, him hes not to be in the servants quarters. Used to be in the house needs to be educated. He wanted to send him to west point, but John Quincy Adams was present by them so it was impossible. Well they said in the first year, it was very quiet on the social side of the white house. And social needs politics by this time in washington. It does. So at what point did he decide he actually need some assistance . Well, emily his niece and nephew, were all with him at this time. They were so close, all his nieces and nephews, all of them were named the same. Names so it was very difficult to figure out which Andrew Donelson we mean, but this particular young man had been one of their words and became the present secretary. How did she create the role of first lady in the administration . Well she was very pretty, she was, young girl in her early twenties. She had very good manners. Shed been trained in he leads act had a me in nashville. The Washington Society loved, her mainly because she was young and malleable. In the old grand deems of washington could run all over her as they couldnt with someone like. Rachel well someone who cast himself as the peoples president , he lived fairly large in the white house. Seems very nice parties and lots of money spent henry decorating, how did the square with his public image . Well he believed in democracy with a small d. He believed in people being part of the democracy. It didnt preclude him entertaining . It didnt preclude him from being cultivated and having managed to becoming a lawyer and learning how to interact in society. He always wanted to be a gentleman. One of his goals was to prove that he was a gentleman. And if you look at some of his controversies, there because in the early days other meant entry to mess equals. Next up is lee in drank go, colorado. Yes, id like to know what was the big to do about the election of 1828 . We know what was said about Rachel Jackson, but what were the comments on the other side . Well, nasa there were several among other things they said that John Quincy Adams was a, pump which is the most ridiculous thing you could. Imagine it was based on a little thing but it had nothing to do with sexual activities. They said a lot of bad things but adams, and also about his wife. I mean she was after all they believed a foreigner. She was born in great britain, even though she had american, parents and therefore was legally, american they saw her as a possible foreign influence. She was very cultivated. Washington was a squat little town at this time. We promised scandal intrigue, and it wasnt just in the 1828, and Rachel Jackson, and the criticism she received. But also what became known as the peggy eaten affair, which colored and for much of the jackson presidency. Who was she and how did this unfold . Well peggy eaton was the daughter of a washington d. C. Hotel, keeper and also a tavern. Owner many politicians stayed in his hotel in the family got to know them. Well shes beautiful, she was at well educated, she liked to sink at, perform she actually sometimes appeared in public which god forbid any lady do. She was seen as not quiet. Shes beautiful, shes by the, vicious the by the shifts, she really interfered and went into situations that were part of the mens realm. And in this period in American History, went domesticity and the rise of domesticity is becoming very specific, and theres the women sphere, and theres immense. Fear and womens fear is to guard the household and got the morals of society, while the men go out and fight and then you know in this new capitalist world. She was very outspoken and bold. While you described her but how did she become an issue for the cabinet . Her has been killed himself. He was a person on enable bustle, he killed himself. She was a widow. The one person who had consistently lived at the oneills hotel was john henry eaton, one of jacksons closest friends and supporters. A close friend and supporter of rachel throughout all this bad time. He was worried at margarets suggestion that he might have ruined her reputation. There was a lot of talk that they had had a affair, and thats way her husband killed himself. And, so he asked johns jackson, should i marry her . And jackson said certainly, he was always for love and romance, helping others to elope. Exactly, and jackson was familiar with her to. He stayed in the boarding house, he thought that she was very respectable and that this was a good thing. So how did this rise to the level of a cabinet issue . She broke another rule. She got married too soon. She should have been in mourning for at least a year. She married john henry will before that. That was a problem. Well size that the cabinet was named and it includes eaton and his wife, whose social bona fides are not so, good and then she presses right ahead and goes and talks to one of the hottest of the wives of the other, men and floride refuses to return her call. Now nowadays we dont even know what that means. But in those days, that was slapping someone in the face. Side it was very structured, the protocol of society is very structured. It came to the point where jacksons cabinet was in an uproar, and many resignations because of it. All the wives the refused to call on peggy eaton, or when she was an honored guest often at his side, attempting to force these women to recognize her. It was the hello, and then they would walk on. Everything was so cold and so ugly, and margaret was totally mortified. West of, all among those who gave the cut to margaret was emily donelson, his niece. We have two quotes from and jackson at the time period that gives you the sense of the president s involvement and peek over the socalled petticoat affair. He was one, do you suppose that ive been sent here by the people to consult the ladies of washington as to the proper persons to compose my cabinet . And heres another, written by peggy eaton himself, id rather have live vermin on my back, then the tongue of one of these washington women on my reputation. Did it become a constitutional crisis with this cabinet resigning . It, did unfortunately its gas, jacksons gallant defending of Margaret Eaton that really turns it from the social crisis into a political crisis. He couldnt leave it alone. Finally it becomes in his mind that it has to be an attack against him as well. Its not just margaret, its an attack against him. Thats when he sees cal who in behind all of this. Lets bring it back to his knees donelson, because you said earlier that there was a high point of her being malleable. But then you also told us he could not abide by close people, especially family members who disagreed with. Him what happened between the two of them . He demanded that he treat her as a friend, and she would not. And so he sent her home. Next is a question from john in anna dale, virginia. Hi john. Hi, great series, im wondering how Andrew Jacksons personality or approach was affected by him becoming a widow were, if at all . I know most quickly remarry, this was not the case here, was there any noticeable change in him . He was devastated. He wasnt just devastated, he was bitter. Thats why his whole first term didnt accomplish anything, because he was either in mourning, or we he was attempting to help peggy eaton out. He had to ask his cabinet to resign. It was a huge thing that involved him because he saw her as a surrogate for rachel. If they could treat her this way, they might have treated his wife that way. He couldnt let it go. Next up is a call from dorothy in westerville, ohio. Hi dorothy. Hi thank you so much for taking my call. The program has been remarkable so far. My question is how did rachel deal with Andrew Jacksons fiery temper . Ill hang up and listen for your answer. Thank you. The only person who actually could control jackson when he was in a breach was rachel. One particular time, they were going down river and there was a boot ahead of them with the number of happy young bucks who were all drunk, zigzagging, zigzagging, zigzagging so theyre both was held up. He took out a gun and said i will kill a couple of them. She stopped that whole operation. I dont know if he would have or not, but maybe. Next is nancy, they are lawn new jersey. Hi nancy. I would just like to know if either of your guests have ever seen the old movie depicting the jacksons with charleston hassan and susan he word. I saw it as a young woman and it showed a beautiful love story. Was it accurate . Not particularly accurate. It had great looking actors in it and it was very romantic. I loved it. The book came out in the president s leading in 51. It was the best seller for years, in fact you can still buy it. Last question for this part of our program is from Carrie Robinson on twitter. It sets the stage for the next half hour of our conversation. What was secretary of state burns role in the petticoat affair and jackson cabinet . The secretary of state had the unfortunate benefit of being a wood or. Himself he didnt have to have this social political push from his wife as the other cabinet members dead. He was free to go and see Margaret Eaton, when he did he treated her, well called on her frequently. He gained tremendous respect from jackson for that. There was this very interesting 19th century historian who says that the whole political history of the left 30 years, and hes writing this the beginning of the civil war can be attributed to the moment when the soft hand of Martin Van Buren touches the knocker of misses eaton. How did it become a successful bid for the presidency . It was somewhat complicated. He got eaton to resign, the rest of the cabinet to resign, jackson said you cant just resign, after do something for you. He nominated him to be the ambassador for great britain. He was very happy to be the president , he had the deciding vote on the appointment of this nomination, and he cast a vote against it, infuriating jackson and sort of sealing the future. Here comes the white house. The first northerner, new york state. The first born as american. Thats right. Another first for, me adam was of english, dissent he was attach. He was a dutch descent, and he grew up speaking dutch. He was from a somewhat different culture. I would never president coming into the white house, his wife had died many years before. And to set the stage for our conversation on his white house and the first lady who served him were going to listen now to white house historian, bill steele. He was president , shermans favorite portrait issues pretty. She was a southern belle. She married abraham van buren, she was from near columbia, south carolina, and she was a bell at the time. She had plenty of money. Singletons were a big big family in the sand hills as they called it down. There and in the area of fourth jackson, around in. There should plenty of money, she bought plenty of clothes, she was apparently a lot of. Fun and so she and abraham went to europe and their honeymoon where she was introduced to young queen victoria, approximately her age. It was called a balloon for the first time in a demonstration. She received all her friends and they were all in white. They just nodded. They did not shake hands or anything. It was not taken very well. Bought imagine a country that never allowed ministers and ambassadors to our uniforms. They did not like that at all. She lived on to the 18 seventies in new york yuck, married to abraham. Not a lot known about her. Very few letters. She was what you would call a bell at that time. She did not worry about things. Yuck Martin Van Buren to the white house as a bachelor of sons. That was very quiet. He was facing a tremendous political crisis because of the panic of 1837 which hed inherited from jackson and jackson policies. Several weeks after he was inaugurated. It struck like that. He was a depression this was a first huge economic depression that the United States. We had a small one 1819, but it wasnt nearly of this scale. Wed already had an interconnected global economy. There were calls out on banks from london. They did not have the money, and they collapsed. As the banking crisis started to collapse. Remember, we do not have a National Currency at this point. State bank start to collapse and everything dries up. What was the depth of the depression for most of the americans . By that may, there were riots in new york city. It was really serious. It was still going on in 42 and 43. It did not just go away. It got a little bit better but not nearly for a long time. Did he have a cabinet for his own personal ability to bring skill set to help resolve the crisis . President s do not have or hold all those levers even now. Before he had the fed. He did recommend an independent treasury system. But unfortunately, Martin Van Buren and the Democratic Party had been arguing against federalism and these kind of federal projects. They backed themselves into a corner. I dont think anyone at that time could have dealt with the major depression. They had to wait for the economy to heal. They did not have the tools. They did not know what was causing it. They certainly did not have a structure in place, for example, we have the fed today that will loan money to banks. So that they dont close. We did not solve this problem until we got the new deal. With this great trial going on in the rest of the country, how interested was the Van Buren Administration and having a social side . He was a very social person. It was a great skill set. Charming little dinner parties. He liked jackson. Always liked women. Lots of women friends. There was still a social sight to the white house because around his politics, it was done socially. It would go elsewhere, but really in terms of large scale entertaining, a new years day party, which was traditional, was pretty much as big party until his and eldest son married angelica. And now here is where we have to bring in Dolley Madison. What role does she have to play . Referral to by carl anthony brilliantly as the queen mother, i think. She had a beautiful cousin. Angelica Singleton Van buren, Martin Van Buren had four single sons, including including secretary. She introduced them all. Her husband had died. They had to sell off the plantation. She moved back to washington. She loved the washington scene. She bought a house on lafayette square. She was right there. She immediately jumped into the social suites where she had been happiest and came back there as a widow. A call from missouri. Hi terri, you are on. Terry, are you there . Weve lost terri. Sean from kentucky. Mrs. Jackson. At that she had a son who passed away. I also would like to comment on angelicas impression with the press and the white house in representing the Van Buren Administration abroad. How Dolley Madison influenced her. Thank you i enjoy the program immensely. She hadnt adopted indian child that died shortly after they went to washington. Angelicas first year well Martin Van Buren spent when youre in the white house without her. Everyone thought she was beautiful and glamorous. She did a fabulous job. They went on an extended honeymoon. She met the queen of england in europe. She really took to it. She had gone to the French Academy and learned all of this. When she came back for the next season is when she had a problem. That is when she tried the tableau at the new years open house. This is a country that is interested in democracy. This is the beginning of the next president ial election season and here is angelica acting in a queenly manner. Harris president ial this could be self evident did Angelica Van Buren want to Service First lady or was it just expected of her as the only woman in the family . She was dying to. She was excited. It was all glamour and wonderment. She wanted a bigger stage for herself as well. Angelica van buren was a new bride when she took on what was the Public Opinion of her . At first it was very positive. She is pretty. She is young. People like to see pictures in newspaper cuts. It was a trip to europe that did her in and it did a great deal of harm to the Van Buren Administration. She was too naive to realize she had gone overboard and she was shocked, when Public Opinion lashed out at her. We were in a depression and here she was, posing with ostrich feathers as though she were a queen. How did she present herself . They built it into the blue room. When we were here, they said there was no diocese in their receiving room. She sat on a sofa that would have been so anti republican. Angelica did not know better. She had seen victoria, france, and she thought this would be cool. She built a platform, wore the ostrich feathers, and after the newspapers and after the politicians took over talking about the Golden Spoons in their mouths and wasting public money, they actually tore out the platform. The flip side of it, how well did the europeans receive the first couple as it were . They left her. Louis philippe that she was incredible. They really took europe by storm. Did that help and International Politics . Not exactly. Angelicas mothers brother was actually the minister to the court of st. James at this point. Van buren kept him on. He had recently picked up a lot of guff because he was called a slave breeder by an irish militant. There was growing tension there. The publicity of that angelica on a Positive Side did not cover up those deeper problems. Tonight, we are telling the story of two windowed president s who had relatives, served for them as role of first lady in the white house. A question by twitter. Why was it so important for unmarried and whittled president s to have a hostess . With that be true for a single president today . Probably not. I think there is some importance to it. Not as much today as there was then. In a parliamentary system where we have a chief of state, you have the Prime Minister and a president. There is somebody to do those ceremonial duties. We sort of pile all of that on the president , and there is an important function there for a president s partner. Let me sound too modern, but there is a social and entertaining piece that is there and i think it was difficult for these bachelor president s to pull it off without having a female there. Entertaining ladies at the time, they had to be a hostess. A man alone could not do it. Thomas jefferson was well known for not being a good entertainer. He preferred being a man only in deep talk. When he did entertain, he would ask Dolley Madison or one of his daughters. But to have these large entertainments to greet the ladies, you needed a lady at hand. This is a very particular peculiar instance. This is a house and it is the womens sphere again. It is the white house, so a heart highly charged political sphere, but still a womens sphere. There is a tension between politics and society that is heightened here in the white house. From baltimore, what is your question . My question is, when angelica was introduced to the queen, what was your impression of angelica . We were told that she was charmed by victoria, but we do not know of any subsequent correspondent. They were about the same age. I think the european courts were fascinated and really relieved that they turned out to be civilized, that they werent that woods barbarians which is what they expected of americans. Angelicas family was very wealthy. Richard singleton was extremely wealthy. Angelica herself had a great interest in fashion. She would have come in the best actually the dress in the white house portrait was the dress she presented herself to the queen and. This is such a merger of two seemingly very different family cultures. Angelica singleton, coming from a plantation life, wealthy and the south, slave holding family, i would presume. And new york state, a very different sort of approach. Van buren was not a backward country van buren loves society. He was known as the little magician, because he was always pulling off little plans. A lot of men who dislike him like cattle whom with say, he just p he appeals to the ladies. He works through the ladies through the back door. Yet become very social. So heads sons. They had been brought up in bc. A sidebar. Martin van burin is responsible for the universal expression, okay. During the election of 1840, supporters of van buren started to refer to him as ole kinder hook. The phrase ok hit the streets and boston and was picked up by the campaign as a way to talk about old kinder hook. Okay became the expression we use all the time. Utah. Georgia, what is your question. Did angelica do anything beyond hosting. Did she do any public policy. People on the missouri frontier were very disappointed in him not helping them with their causes because they had conflict with the other frontiersman. Did she do any advising and that sort of thing or was she strictly a hostess and dealt with other ladies in the sphere, but not the public sphere that was really a mans world. No evidence of her delving into politics. Even later in life, even during the civil war, she is quite quiet about where her sentiments fell and anything political. It really does not express a political view. I think she would not have had any influence. Our influence and politics was a negative one by the perception of his administration. She was young and she made mistakes. Did she recover . She did. They tore out the diocese, and she stopped doing the posing. But by then, the administration was almost over anyway. Angelica was not going to sink the administration. Not to mention this terrible depression, but there were some serious issues to the United States that really we came to talk about, slavery being a huge one, indian removal being a huge one. These are big, difficult issues, and the north and the south are pulling apart from each other quickly. The room for negotiation is rapidly evaporating. The center is not going to hold. Do you anything more of the details, about mormons . Let us take a question now from bill in staten island, new york. Hi bill. Hi, how are you doing . There is another side bar. In the gore of the dow book about aaron berke, he insinuates that burr is the true father of Martin Van Buren. How serious would that claim be . It is called burr, a novel. I will say it is a delightful tale. He did look kind of like that, but its almost impossible. Although, during the campaign of 1840, that was certainly raised. Van buren had been a close associate of aaron burrs. Both of them charmed by him. The likelihood that Martin Van Burens mother living in this tavern in kinder hook new york after having all of these kids already, she had already been married once before. Its highly unlikely. Bethany johnson would like to know, is detention like i have any kids . She did. That is one thing about these young women in the white house. They are pregnant much of the time. They are either pregnant or given birth or nursing. Or the child dies and they are in mourning. That was angelic as situation. Angelica is pregnant twice in the white house. She lost the first child, rebecca. Shortly after that tableau, she retreated from public life because she was already pregnant and women were kept in private after that. She had three boys after that. Missouri, you are on carey. Hi. I was wondering, why Martin Van Buren did not marry after his wife died . Interesting question. Martin van buren talks very little about this. Hannah was his wife. They had all of these children together. He has her reentered in kinder hook later in his life. We dont have too many stories of him having romantic valiance is with other women or even possibly proposing. He has friendships with women, but he never seems to have another romantic connection. Rachel davidson asks, why didnt Martin Van Buren even mentioned hannah in his autobiography. True. He did not mention her. It is a rambling. It is 800 pages long. You would think that he might have. His son john, when he had his first child, wanted to name the girl after his mother and he wrote to his father, was your name hannah or anna . He probably did not even talk to his sons very much about his wife. He always kept a lock it with a painting of her with him, and that is all we know. We will take people via video to a place you know well next. The historic home at the van burens occupied. Can you tell us about it before we see it . This is the house that van buren bought while he was president. He bought it in case the white house did not work out. We know that it did not. It was also the ancestral home of one of his nemesis in kinder hook. He was very pleased to acquire that property. Lyndon is the name of the house. We will visit it in kinder hook, new york. You will see that next. Angelica and her husband would have spend summers here. There were occasions where they spent sparked part of the winter months here but they would spend the summer months here. Most of the time, president van buren lived here. In the dining room, angelica would have served as hostess. And barren had many social events. He had an equal number of political events here, and during those times if angelica was in residence at the house would be the hostess for those occasions just as she was at the white house. She was quite refined, being that she was so wealthy. She had all the appropriate pro appropriate social graces at the time. So much so that even the ambassador from france who is critical of manners and social graces complemented angelica. Martin van buren purchase this home in 1839 during the second year of his preet presidency. He added another 100 acres later. In the green room, the women of the house would engage in a variety of activities, polite conversation. They would read or recite from memory to one another. They would oftentimes play games. Angelica van buren was trained in philadelphia on the harp. We have a harp here. There were occasions where she would play the hard for other female guests here in the green room. This is the breakfast room here. It is a place where the family had their daily meals. The china you see here is the daily china that they used in the household. Angelica and gearan says its easy to imagine her serving someone tea or passing the gravy. In july of 1843 while angelica and abraham were visiting her father, she suffered a miscarriage. We know from letters that she wrote, that during that time, she convalescent on this couch in the main hall. When she served as a hostess in the white house, she had another baby girl who died as an infant while she was here. Angelica and abraham did have three sons that lived to adulthood. Here on the second floor abraham and Angelica Van Buren would have spent a lot of time there while they were visiting their father. Here are several dresses that were warned by jessica by angelica. Its easy to imagine her wearing this perhaps at the white house where she hosted. The parasol would have been used during the summer months while she was out strolling on the grounds. It was a large farm of 240 acres. I believe Martin Van Buren and his daughter in law, angelica, had a very close relationship. He was a very amiable man. That is why it was very successful in politics, and she was trained in the social graces of the 19th century. They genuinely cared for one another. We were looking at some of the beautiful clothes. There were quite a number of them preserved in different places. The Smithsonian Museum of American History has some. Weve been talking throughout the series about early first ladies and whether or not they influenced fashion trends in the country. Looking at these close, was Angelica Van Buren a fashion translator for the country . She certainly was for that proportion of the society that could afford those kinds of dresses. She was definitely light jackie kennedy, someone to be emulated. Let us talk about your hook, and how the Van Buren Family used it after they passed away. This is a period in American History when farming was actually something you can make money at. Van buren did put a lot of effort into running linen werent as a working productive farm and made money doing it. That was an important component of life. He also had his family there. He had cousins and nieces and nephews from his wipes. He had the Singleton Family stay there. Sean van buren and his wife state there. He was a house full of family. He also had political ambitions. He left the white house and although he never claimed to run again, he certainly made it clear that if the country called for him he would do his duty and step forward. In 1844 he really thought he was going to get the democratic nomination of baltimore. He did not. It was a big deal. It was and yet again another major crack in this National Party between north and south. What about his bid with the free soil ors. Like another dutch president , theodore roosevelt, who bumped the party that he had represented. Martin van buren comes up to 1848 and makes a pretty substantial decision that he is actually going to go against what he spent his life working for. United, unified national Democratic Party. He will run it with his son john. He runs on this free soil through liberty ticket. It is a very interesting third party. A foreigner of the republican party. Believed and free labor, free soil, freemen. Is there any evidence that angelica and or her husband had various other brothers that were involved in the former president s future editions . Not really. John was involved because john state political. Certainly, the others were not. Abraham van buren went to west point with Jefferson Davis and robert easily. He had friends on other sides of this issue. What is interesting though, after she is windowed or even before, that she spent the last part of her life in new york city. Again, that cosmopolitan yearning. Courtney in may bulls. Hi good evening. I grew up in kinder hook and ive seen the thirties and forties. The election of lyndon wall number one was, an abandoned home. It was in total disrepair. The grounds were totally wild. Any avoidance of the farm was totally absent. I guess my question is, at what point did this property get improved . My recollection is that a man with some wealth bought the property and started to repair it and then the government took it over. Did you fill up that part of the story . Your memory is quite accurate. Van buren and his son, they left linen walled after buren died. It went out of the family almost immediately. It became a very large and ornate farmhouse. By the 1930s had been sort of run down. It had gone through several iterations. They tried to make a tea house out of it. Basically, it had never been owned again by anybody who had enough money to do anything great for it. It never had any money to ruin it either. The gentleman you mentioned who purchased the house, tried to restore it somewhat. He did at least save it from being a complete ruin. Then legislation was passed to make it part of the National Park service that restored the house in the 1980s. Next is marilyn. Hi maryland. Hi. Brilliant program. Im wondering what angelicas husband abraham did, while she was acting as hostess in the white house and where they lived while she was there. Thank you. They lived in the white house. The president s staff always lived in the white house in the 19th century. That is why they usually had relatives. They wanted people that they would get along with. If there was unavailable son or nephew. They lift in the white house in the family quarters and abraham was the secretary and the principal aid to his father. Abraham had fought in the seminal war and during the mexican war he would become a pay master. On twitter, did anyone during van burens time in the white house ever mentioned hannah . You said you wanted to talk more about that. What i really wanted to say was that then buren was not so odd and not mentioning his wife. Many 19 century leaders of political or scientific leaders with talk about their lives without mentioning wives or children. That was just so personal it had nothing to do with their success. Seven minutes left. Lets wrap all this up and talk about the time period of 1829 to 1841. Two administrations, the jackson and van buren very much intertwined with the scandal politics. Lets talk in a broad sense about the changing country and the changing political parties. One of the major things we forget because we are so comfortable with the United States being a two party system, and that is what democracy is, we forget that there in the early republic, there was not a two party system. The Founding Fathers hated parties and thought that they would be terrible for democracy. It really is this generation, particularly Martin Van Buren who says, wait a minute. We need to have an order, structured system of making political things happen. That is the party. We have to have a philosophy, show up together and vote on the same thing, and we have to hang together. Or the sections of the country and differences in the democracy will spin out of control. And actually, they did. How did washington d. C. Change over these 12 years . It grew like crazy. At the beginning of, of course, was basically just kind of a big swamp with a lot of trees and dirt, and there would be a house here, and then you go three four blocks and they be building there. But it finally became, actually, a city. It became a place to take a killing of. It was a big play. I think what is so important about this period is that it is the time when steamboats have changed the whole situation about selling from the south, that the slave power is growing. It is the most profitable part of the country, and abolition sentiment is growing like crazy and the north. That is why we see somebody like van buren, running on free soil which is in fact an abolitionist party. This Great Elephant in the middle of the room which is slavery really comes into focus, and we have set the stage for the coming of the most horrific test of democracy that we had in the civil war. Interesting, the during this time period we had to a political first ladies serving these varying tumultuous times. Jennifer writes that she is loving these old renderings of the white house that we are showing. How did the white house change . During the jackson administration, the north critical was added, the major piece you always see sticking out from the house. That was a major addition to the white house. Van buren redecorated the white house. He put in plumbing and central heating. He got a lot of gut for it. The blue room during the Van Buren Administration. The white house changed a lot. One theme, if you follow the history of that building is that it starts out a certain way, and then it gets all run down. Things break just as it does with your own house. They keep putting off repairs, putting off repairs. When they do do them, they are pretty much needed badly. Especially if you are Andrew Jackson and bringing 25,000 people into the white house. Isabella, you are on the air. I was wondering, why did they usually marry their relatives . How do you isabella . 12. Are you learning a lot watching this program . Yes. We are glad to have you. Thank you for your question. Particularly in frontier settlements where there were limited numbers of people, other times your cousins would be the only ones who were really available to you. So it was not uncommon at all, it really was not uncommon for a double First Cousins to marry, which sometimes happened as well. People did not have any sense that there was anything odd about it. It seemed like a good thing, because you knew what that person was like. You knew all about them, and there wouldnt be any bad surprises in your marriage. In van burens case. He was a dutch speaker. He married into the dutch community. They were dutch speakers. These were their own people. I want to show you the book. She wrote one about marshall washington martha washington. This one is about rachel and Andrew Jackson on being so gentle. It is more available for those of you who want to learn more. I only skimmed the surface. Let me have isabella and also your book, have you talk a little bit about a theme michael has brought us back. The changing role of women in politics. What was happening for women and their ability to influence politics during this period . With the abolitionists movement there were many women we reformers who were part of that great movement, who were also feminists. It was not so peculiar to see women having opinions. Earlier when you said, to these young girls actually have any political influence, not at all. People thought that was the right thing. Good thing. They did not think about politics. But that was changing drastically. Becky roy robinson said how did the ladies during the Administration Deal with the panic of 1837 . You would say not so well . They, like everybody else had no idea what was going on. It really was a panic. For how long it would last. Or how long it will last. When last call, which is john in oklahoma, city. My question was, ive always heard the van buren spoke dutch in the white house. Youve already answered this but its kind of syllabus story. Which family spoke foreign languages, and often the answers the van buren. I doubt he often spoke dutch in the white house. He certainly spoke dutch and kinder hook, that by the time you get to his retirement, he talks about writing out to the countryside and talk to the people who speak dutch. In that period between his birth and his retirement, the dutch speaking in the Hudson Valley began to die out even though it had been 150 years after the english had conquered. It he lost the election, and what happens next in this country . What happens next when van buren goes home . Who comes into the white house . The hero William Henri harrison. Harrison comes in and unfortunately catches a pneumonia during his inauguration and dies a few days later. The sets the stage for a very interesting conversation on our next program. First ladies and the influence and image. Thank you for talking us through the American History, a changing country, the president s that led them in the women who helped them. Thank you