Abigail would grow to be an equal of john adams. Confident and dearest friend. She has really revealed to herself as yes as an 18th century woman, but her concern some very modern to us today. John and Abigail Adams had become so prominent in the minds of americans because of this collection of papers and publications that have opened up to the world. The story of Abigail Adams and the revolutionary war is the story of sacrifice and commitment to country. Abigail rose to the occasion. Abigail was adamantly opposed to slavery. She was a the scenes kind of women. She warned her husband. You cannot rule without including what women want and what women have to contribute. The backdrop to the and to the adams brief occupancy in the white house is one of political defeat and personal tragedy. She is worried about her husband and defensive against slander. Shes concerned about her children, their upbringing and education. She could hold her own with anybody in her own time and since. She was in every way, her husbands equal. Born and 1744, Abigail Smith mary john adams at age 19. Over 54 years of marriage, they had five children together, including a future president. Ahead of her time in many ways and a writer perhaps some parallel to any first lady, abigail pens this to her husband during the american revolution. All history at every age, exhibits instances of patriotic virtue in the female sex, which considering our situation equals the most heroic of yours. Good evening and welcome to cspans first ladies influence and image. For the next 90 minutes, we will be learning more about abigail we will be learning more about Abigail Adams a second lead of the United States. We have people at the table who spent most of their professional careers learning about the adams and learning their writings to the public. Let me introduce them to you, edith gelles author of numerous books. Abigail items, a writing life. And portrait of a marriage. Jim taylor is the editor in chief of the adams papers of the massachusetts historical society. Thanks to both of you and welcome. Edith, Abigail Adams by the virtue of the fact of being the wife of the second president and the mother of another president earned her place in history. You say in your book, and she is a historical figure in her own right. Primarily, because she left those letters. We have a record of her life. Her letters are not ordinary. They are extraordinary. Air wonderfully written, and there are many of them. Abigail was a letter writer at a time when women could not publish for publication. Her letters became her outlet. They are the best record we have of womens roles in the american revolution, and for the period of the Early National government of the United States. Last week in the Martha Washington chronicle we learned with great sorrow that Martha Washington burnt all of her letters. Her correspondence with her husband george. Only two of them remained. Weve got the opposite here. Thousands and thousands of them. Explain the scope of the trove of the materials that you have to work with as scholars through the writings of the adams family. The adams family gave to the massachusetts historical society, a collection. Weve never encountered them individually, but probably 70,000 press documents over several generations, and probably about 300,000 pages. For abigail and jon, which is the most important of the collection, there are about 1170 letters that they exchanged over the years. How frequently did the right one another . It depended. When they were together, for example, we do not have any letters after 1801, because after john leaves the white house, they are together almost all the time, but for periods, for example, when it was fairly regular mail delivery between massachusetts and philadelphia, later washington, d. C. , they wrote at least once or twice a week. It was like phone calls. This one was an Interactive One which makes it interactive for all of us. In 15 minutes will be taking your calls and we will put the phone numbers on the screen so you can phone and with a question. There are two other ways you can be involved as well. If you go to twitter and use the hashtag first ladies or include some of your tweets, questions by twitter, and you can also go to cspans Facebook Page and there is a spot where you can send in questions tonight. I will start with a facebook comment. Sophia writes, she looks like a tough cookie. By looking at the words of abigail, which in fact a tough cookie . Oh my goodness. No yes and no. In fact, one of the things that is important to understand about abigail. She started out as a naive, young woman, whose expectations were to have a normal life like her mother did. The revolution disrupted that. Her whole life shifted. This is one of the reasons she had become such a great model for us as women. She used the opportunity of this disruption in her life to grow as a person. She begins as a naive, young, and she does become a very sophisticated, worldly, opinionated, kind women. This is one of the things that makes her most attractive. A good character and a novel develops overtime. She is like a good character in a novel. She develops. What were her roots . Where was she born and what was her upbringing, such that she became a woman of letters . He was the daughter of a minister. Reverend william smith. Her mother was descended from, if there was nobility in new england, the clergy and the political world of new england of massachusetts colony, so that her mothers family or the nortons. Quincys. She grew up in a household that was middle class for that time. She had two sisters and one brother. She did not go to any kind of public school, of which there were a few, but was educated at home by her mother. She read at random at her fathers library. In the course of reading her writings, that should become political and can you describe the politics . Im trying to think. Very early on when john is active in congress, she craves news. She wants the newspaper some philadelphia. She wants pamphlets when they were published. One of the things we know that shes consuming the news at that time. All the news was printed. She begins, i would say, by the middle 17 seventies, she is on board. And what capacity . What is her political thinking . She was an ardent revolutionary. She was very supportive, not only in revolution, but the fact that john was participating, as a matter of fact, they were partners in everything that he did. As a matter of fact, at some point, he writes to her, thanking her for being a part in the activities. Later on, i think she is, i would say, perhaps more conservative and john when it came to national politics. We will be looking at some of her letters throughout the program. But a very famous one is, and we use it in the open, was her, remember the ladies. That is a letter that is of particular interest you. Youre right at the scope of it, we always hear that section is really much broader. Why is that letter significant and understanding Abigail Adams . The letter does many things. She my sense of abigail is that she wrote at night. She would enter a reverie in which she just filed her thought patterns, wherever they went. She changes topics and her letters very many times. It starts out with a political statement about why the southerners can flavor can favor slavery and still be doing a rebellion against a tyranny. And she questions that. Then she moves on in the middle of a paragraph. She makes the, remember the ladies statement. It goes on further to suggest that if john did not like this idea, actually it was a remarkable thing, because he was actually in a position to do something, to make a change. He was on the committee that was drafting the declaration of independence. So that he actually could have made a move for womens rights at that time. It is remarkable that she did suggest that. What powers were in the society at the time . That they could publish under their own names . How could women could be influential if they could not vote . It is a much more subtle thing, in the same way that if many times, a decision is made even today, and people think that the husband makes the decision. There is a Kitchen Table discussion that goes on before that, and i think that probably, in the adams household, there were a lot of Kitchen Table discussions between john and abigail. Abigail may not have been most obvious and making decisions, but i think that she influenced john a lot. We know much later after the revolution, she is very influential in helping him and his political career. What the country looked like an 1800. John adams was leaving office. We have some statistics will put on screen to give you some of the scope. For example, by that point the census in 1800 interestingly was done by John Marshall who went to the Supreme Court and ultimately done by secretary of state james madison. Familiar names from history and the job of the census. Chief at that time. The population was 5. 3 million across 16 states. There were 998,000 blacks, about 19 of the population. Only 12 of them were free. That 5. 3 million was a 35 growth just in ten years since the nine 1790 census. The average Life Expectancy if you were born in 1800 was just 39 years. The largest cities in the country were new york, philadelphia and baltimore. A change from ten years ago. What are sort of the things we can take away from the statistics of that snapshot of america . One of the things is there is an expansion going on. This is one of the things that is very difficult for the adams. Politics are changing. The changing politics means they are new england ours. There are new and as time goes by the population moves south and westwards. It makes it more difficult for politics, we will invite your telephone calls. I am told that you want to read us a passage from one of the letters. I would like to remark on the 39 year lifespan. That is not exactly accurate to the extent that if children died much more rapidly. If a child survived to 12, probably, the lifespan was much longer, and many many people lived into their seventies as the adams did. How many of them survived to adulthood out of their five children . For. For . You are getting a passage ready for us. You want to read us that letter we talked about earlier, remember the ladies . In this particular letter, abigail was ruminating about conditions and her life and what was going on in her world. She says, i long to hear that you had declared an independence. She knew john was on this committee. And by the way, in the new code of laws, which i suppose it will be necessary for you to make, i desire you would remember the ladies, and be more generous and favorable to them and your ancestors. Which is a bold and remarkable statement for a woman to have made and that era. Based on the relationship that we see detailed and the letters, would it have been a surprising thing for her to say to john adams . No. I do not think so at all. As i go back to the Kitchen Table, im sure that before he wrote off to philadelphia, she filled his ear with a lot of ideas along the way. Im john and in his response notes that there are several groups of people, servants, slaves, etc. Theyve also moved during this time to think about their rights and what was her viewpoint on slavery . She was opposed to slavery. She had a servant. A black servant, who in fact had been a sleeve of her fathers. I think the woman had what was the story . Phoebe. Did she have the right to be free or continue as a servant . Abigail cared for her for the rest of her life. After her parents died. Abigail cared for her. In fact, she lived in their house. But the adamsbusiness was a farm. How did they manage to work farm . What kind of labrador used to support family labor . They had hired labor. It became very problematic problematic for abigail during the war, the whole situation of having labor on the land. I want to go back to the letter just a little bit, because you mentioned johns response to her. What she does in this letter in addition to saying, why is it that southerners could support a revolution when they themselves keep people in slavery . And she goes on and says, remember the ladies. And she says, if you do not pay tension to this, we ladies are going to form our own rebellion. Then it goes on further to say, you should treat us the same way that god treats people. She invokes the hierarchy. In this one letter, she brings out so many ideas. I would suggest that her threat to fermented revolution was, is indicative of one of the ways that the adamsrelated to each other. A teased each other. It sounds to me like every group, any tribe is going to make a revolution. Jokes are a way that people have of deescalating an argument. And it brings it down one of the ways in which they related it seems to me. Hes too prolific letter writers, how did they meet each other . They met at her fathers house. He went as a dinner guest with a friend. A lifelong friend, Richard Grant who then married the elder sister of abigail. Abigail was not even 15 at that time. John was not, at least in his diary, not particularly enthusiastic about her at first. But apparently, things changed over the years. He was nine years older than her. He was 23 or 24. He also had a girlfriend at the time. The amazing story is that he was about to propose to this woman, and one of his friends burst in and broke the mode, i guess you would say. Then she went off and married someone else. It came within a whisker, or at least proposal to propose to someone else. He was a lawyer. With that have been a profession that her family would have appreciated her falling for . The family lore suggested that it wasnt. When Charles Francis adams wrote about it, he suggested that her family disapproved of her marrying a lawyer, which she was also very young when she met him. It were being protective of her as well. Miss john political at that point . Did you know she was going to be choosing a life of politics . Now when you about the revolution coming. This is one thing we have to keep in mind. All of this is happening at a very time when there is no revolution. There is no revolution on the horizon. They think of themselves as british people. Sure, he was interested in politics the way young men were. He was running for office by this time, wasnt he . He was very political. His trajectory was to be a great lawyer in massachusetts. That is what he saw. He was following that line. He probably would have been. It is important to note, because these two were married for 54 years, and as we are hearing from our guests, were great partners. This was in the beginning, even if it was not a love match, it grew to become one. We have an us as an example one letter. This is called the miss adorable letter. We will show this to you next. What is so appealing about the family series is the intimacy that the letters reveal. The earliest letter we have dates to october 1762. We call it the, miss adorable letter. That is how john adams opens the letter. John rights to abigail and he says, miss adorable, by the same token that the mayor here of sat up with you last night, i hereby order you to give him as many kisses and as many hours of your company after 9 00, as he shall pleas to demand, and charge them to my account. He continues, i presume i have good right to draw new for the kisses as i have given two or 3 million at least. When one has been received, and the consequence that counts between us is immensely in favor of yours. Very teasing, affectionate time. Theres just some wonderful moments in these correspondents. Its fun to bring these founding fathers, people we see in these very two dimensional poses come to life, and have real human personalities. These people were clearly having fun and enjoying one another. I think this is one of the most appealing things about sean and abigail. Particularly john and abigail. They have a life that you can follow because of the documents. You see them in good times and in that. You see death in the family. You see triumph. It is it is like downtown abby, but it is not exactly. It is a wonderful story because we have so many of those documents. Theres texture there that you dont have it the other founders. Half based on what youve described. Her admonitions to john about remembering the ladies. Elliott wants to know on twitter. Would you say Abigail Adams was the mother of womens rights in the United States . One of the things that we know by reading abigails letters was that women were aware of their subordinate role in the 18th century. When you have abigails letters, where she writes about this, we know that she was not exemplary. Other women in her period of time, her good friend mercy for instance, was totally agreeing with her. And totally a colleague. I think that one of the things we have learned in the Womens Movement and early twenties at 24 century is that we can trace the movement for womens rights back further and further and history. Abigail happens to be an outstanding example, because she left us letters that say these things. She also is very eloquent. Not everyone could write like abigail. Abigail was a wonderful writer. I first telephone call comes from chan, from new york city. Hi. While abigail was one of the first Great American female riders, she can also be acknowledged that she was a four mother despite john quincy since one son committed suicide and another one dragged him self to death . When she had good mother . Yes. She was a very good mother. We live in a post floridian world where something goes wrong inside of a family, the mother gets the blame. First of all, these children are living through a revolution. Their father was not at home for 25 years. She was doing at all by herself. She was coping in a situation which was extraordinary. I think that applying 20th 21st century standards to mothering, and even the psychology that has developed in the early 20th century does not fly for the 18th century. Mary up next. Hi mary. Hi. Thanks for taking my call. What is the relationship between abigail and Thomas Jefferson . Did abigail and Thomas Jefferson correspond during john and thomas is year of not really speaking to each other . Ive also heard that abigail was really hadnt into intimate relationship with him as far as correspondents went. Im wondering how true that is. They were very good friends at one time. The highest point of the relationship was when abby gayle was for a while in france and then in england. Thomas jefferson was a different man abroad at that time. They were very close. As a matter of fact, for a while, while jefferson was in paris and she was in london, they bought goods from one another. They kept little accounts for one another. Also, at one point, one of jeffersons younger daughter came from virginia to france, but stopped in london on the way. Abigail to care of her during a time. During the national period, when particularly, after the election of 1800, the relationship really fell apart. It was over politics. During that time, abigail was very disappointed with jefferson. Next up is matt in wisconsin. Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I was wondering about the influences of about abigails writing. Did she have influences on her writing . Yes, she was a great reader. This was the beginning point to learn to write well, was to read good literature. She read the bible. Jim, i will let you talk about this. When we did the research on her letters, one of the things if she is quoting something or citing somebody, we always want to identify who it is, but sometimes, she is not using quotation marks because people, educated people in the 18th century knew a lot of things automatically. I would say the things that she quoted most often were things that she referenced most often. Shakespeare, the bible, alexander pulp, and the classics. This next call is from their hometown, quincy massachusetts. Hello. Congratulations on having this wonderful series on the first ladies. I live in quincy, massachusetts. We are very lucky to see and experience and see the adamslife a close every day. My comment is about abigails statement where sentiment about the ladies, because i think that she pretty much put the light on the fact that women can shape and change destinies, not just of ones life, but of nations and the world. If they set their mind to it. It is very important, because women are the primary factor in children upbringing. Especially, she did it at the brink of the United States as we know today. She was very instrumental in the constitution and forming of this nation. In fact, quincy called it the american dream. I think she would not be formally recognized her primary role in womens rights, but she definitely had important, made a very Important Role in shaping womens place in this country and in history. Thank you. That was more of a comment and observation rather than a question. We will take you next to the quincy home at the adams as we prepared to tell you the story of the revolutionary times in which the adams lived. Let us watch. The story of Abigail Adams and the revolutionary war is a story of sacrifice, commitment to country, and abigail rose to the occasion. For the first ten years of their married life, john and abigail lived in this home from 1764 to 1774. It is where they raised their four children. This was the birthplace of their second child, John Quincy Adams who went on to become the sixth president of the United States. It is also an important home, because the primary link between xi and john adams who were in philadelphia at the Second Continental Congress. It was from this house that he was provided a window to what was happening back here in the colony of massachusetts during the revolutionary war. Abigail would report to john about the militia and boston. During the battle of bunker hill on june 17 1775, quincy over to pencilled down the road the high point. She would watch the battle of bunker hill with her son and report to john adams of the fires and smoke rising from charleston. She was the eyes of the revolution to john adams, and essentially the Second Continental Congress and philadelphia. Abigail adams was the hub of the household. This room in particular could be really considered the classroom for abigail, the schoolmistress and her four children. During the war, when must remember, the schools were closed down. The children did not benefit from a formal education. Instead, it was up to abigail to teach them the lessons. Not only arithmetic and french, but also morality, literature and what was going on in the revolutionary war. She was their primary educator hair and this home. This is the room where many of those lessons would have taken place. She reported to john adams during the revolution at one point. She began to take up the works of ancient history. She was having john quincy read her at least two pages a day. I dont know if everybodys aran rollins history, but for sevenyearold boy to accomplish this, he had a very good instructor and Abigail Adams. During the occupation of boston where many refugees leaving from boston out into the country, they needed a place to live. Abigail adams ever the patriot, wanted to open a door for these refugees. She rented out the house to a farmer and his son. They would provide assistance to abigail on the farm here. She reported to john and one of her letters that she met with some very ill treatment. She asked the farmer to share his house with the refugees, but he refused. By the time abigail received a response from john adams, like many things, she had solved this problem herself and reported to john later. She had taken care of the problem. She paid the farmer to leave the premises, providing the opportunity for her to house refugees leaving from boston. There are troops that are watching in her yard, practicing their maneuvers in preparation for war. She reports to john that Young John Quincy is out behind the house marching proudly behind the militia. At one point, there were militia living in the upstairs attic and also the second floor. She welcomed these militia men to her home and supported the revolutionary war with her actions. Their lives and trajectory took them through the biggest events. The founding days of our country. We have a timeline of some of the key times in the adamslife. You can see, 1744 when she was born and married john adams 20 years later. Soon after that, the stamp act. And 1770, the boston massacre. As you are watching the timeline, i want to ask edith gelles, how endangered this family was living in preparation for the war and having sympathizers against the existing government. For the first decade of their marriage, abigail and jean lived together. It was during this decade that the events happened. As events escalated towards war. There was a kind of simultaneous parallel occurrence at the personal level and the more global, political level. Big doing this period of time, there was danger once. Lexington and concord. Once there was fighting in the Massachusetts Bay area. Yes, there was danger. More than that, they did not know that there would be danger. They never knew when Troop Deployment was going to happen. She was ready at any minute to move away from the house, to move and take her children and breathing to safety. How much in those critical years where she alone while john adams was off working on the foundations of the government . From 1774 until 1784, they were apart most of the time. He came home a couple of times for a couple of months. During that time, she was alone on the farm by herself, raising the children. She was writing these letters explaining the situation. How concerned was he about his family back in massachusetts . He was very concerned. Theres one heart wrenching period where she is pregnant, and she is writing right up until the time that she begins labor. Because of the time and distance which is something that is so hard for us to understand now with our instant communication. He is writing, hoping she will have a daughter, and everything will be fine. In the meantime, i the infants born dead and she had a premonition that this was going to happen. While hes writing happily and joyfully, she has buried this child. He knows that she is capable of doing almost anything that a woman or a man can do during that time. But i think there is a certain helplessness on his part. He is so consumed by what he is doing there, but then reflects, and he would send letters, kiss little tommy, johnny. It is very emotional. When war broke out, i rich was so supportive of it. She would help the effort by melting down pewter how swears, plates and cups so they could be made and two bullets. Was that common at the time . People were doing that altogether. Yes. Im going to pass on that. Well take a couple of more calls. As we learn more about the revolutionary years of the adams. This is a call from denise in rochester, michigan. Hello. Id like to know if the series from hbo, that john adams was reflective in any way of how things really were in her life and the sense of family and everything . I know we didnt go to deep into that. I would like to know as well, when you talk about five kids, was that a baby who died, and was i correct about the mans son drinking to death . Thank you. First, the hbo mini series which put the adams at the forefront of a lot of contemporary americans. It was good history. Part of it was drama as well. You have to understand, in order to make it appealing, a little license was taken, but generally it was pretty good history. On the children. There is a tweet to add to that question. Abigail raised children for 25 years alone as john adams was busy. Wow, a woman of steel the color asked about the five children and did not include the child who died. The child who died was the third child. Born before charles. There was abigail junior, john quincy, and then there was a third child named susana, who lived only when youre. Theres very little reference to this child in the correspondence. We know very little about it. Abigail was pregnant at the time of the death of suzannah. Her third child charles was then born. At the end of her life, when her daughter in law lost a child, and the daughter in law was at the time at st. Petersburg, abigail went to her. For the first time that ive seen in the correspondence, she made a reference to having lost a baby daughter. It was a closed topic. The color also wanted to know about the son who was nonalcoholic and died of the disease. Charles. People did not know about alcoholism in those days. It was considered sinful. It was not considered a disease. Charles is throughout the correspondence, treat it as a person who was sensitive, from the earliest years, he was sensitive. He went to europe with his father and john quincy in 1779. He had to come back, because he was homesick. Thereafter, every reference that when sees about him, is that he was a sweet child. A very pleasant child. But also fragile, and he got into trouble when he was in harvard. His life was irregular. You know from the correspondence between abigail and her sisters, for example, that they kind of kept an eye on him. There was a problem. It is never fully discussed as a young man. I think that one of the things that was difficult for abigail was that her brother was nonalcoholic. This viewer on twitter says, Abigail Adams sounds mostly Eleanor Roosevelt among the first ladies. Had she been born at a later age, which have been is activist . Its hard to suggest. Yes. She certainly would. She had all of the attributes of a very dynamic woman who was opinionated and would have had her own goings to pursue. She would have been very very influential. She was very influential in the presidency. Historians said, there have been surveys where Abigail Adams comes in at number two or three position is the most influential. Why is that . Who would be number one . Eleanor. To . She was three of the four times. Why did she end up in the number two spot . I think one of the problems is that there is a distance and time. People still have other images. People who are still alive that new Eleanor Roosevelt. If you did a survey now, Jacqueline Kennedy would probably rate much higher, because people know and really liked her at that time. The only thing we have from abigail are the letters. She is still in the number two spot. Two is not bad. She have seen throughout this 300 years spectrum as the most influential among the first ladies based on the letters that youve been spending your career with. If you see her influence on her husband. I dont know that there have been many first ladies that have had that kind of influence. What is the specific example of an important policy that you see that she really worked on him . I dont know of a particular policy, that its that he consults her all the time. Her letters at a certain point are divided into two things. This is what is happening with the children. This is what is happening on the farm. Here are my thoughts about politics. She shared all the time. I think by the time he got to be president and he was not popular with his party, she was his major advisor. Talking about letters, heres another video piece of the letter on abigail to john, focused on virginia. Remember the ladies letter is a letter that everyone knows and associates with Abigail Adams. I think what is fascinating about the letter is that the remember the ladies comment comes quite far down in the letter. The first section of her letter to john is questioning and voicing her concerns about virginias role in the revolutionary war. She writes, what sort of defense virginia can make against our common enemy . Whether it is so situated as to make unable defenses, or not the entry lords and the Common People vessels . Are they not like the uncivilized natives britain represents has to be . She continues and probably one of her most pointed comments on slavery, i have sometimes been ready to think that the passion for liberty cannot be equally strong in the breasts of those who have been accustomed to deprive their fellow creatures of theirs. If this i am certain, that it is not founded upon that generous and christian principle of doing to others as we would that others should do on to us. How influential was this opinion about enslaved people on john adams thinking . John adams had to be more practical. He is in congress, dealing with these people. He cannot alienate them. He couldnt see, what maybe he could, but he had to help hold this together. It is easy to be a critic when you are not there. I think that throughout the first 60 years of the country, people had to tread softly in order to keep the union together. We are going to fast forward. A countries formed. Washingtons our elected president and are serving first in new york and then philadelphia. John adams is Vice President to the washingtons. How did he and abigail decide their household . And she moved to new york, philadelphia . How did they arrange all . That john was Vice President for eight years. She moved to new york for one year, the first year, because the capitalist new york for the first year. She loved it. She had a Beautiful House on the hudson overlooking the city of manhattan and overlooking the new jersey shore. She loved it. She was also happy because her daughter lived nearby. Then, they moved to philadelphia. She spent the entire year ill. It was not a good climate for her. Her health was always precarious. She decided after that in philadelphia, they decided together that she would stay at home. It wasnt a president for a first lady. The second first lady, Vice President s wife, to be living with a man. It was by choice. Martha didnt. But abigail had the liberty to choose to go home, and she did for the next six years. Of her illness we learned the city of philadelphia was decimated at the start of the second washington term by yellow fever. 20 of the population died. Did she have any illness related to that . No. It is very hard to tell. She describes symptoms, but it is hard to put a name on the symptoms. They say rheumatism. She did have rheumatism, but beyond that, the symptoms she describes our very heart to figure out. At the time she was the second lady. Gene asks by twitter, to the newspapers at the time mention abigail . Im not really sure about that. They mentioned john from time to time, although we see a National Figure at that time . No. Not at all. She was no because she had been the wife of the minister to great britain. One of the problems that they had lose that people thought that they were monarchy will. That they had been tainted by their time in europe. I think it is one of the interesting things about abigail. She grows up a ministers daughter, and at some point, she is that versailles, at the court of st. James. She is an extraordinarily sophisticated person by that time, march much much much much more so than Martha Washington. Abigail was international. What was the relationship between Martha Washington and Abigail Adams. Abigail left martha. It was wonderful. They met when she was the vice the wife of the Vice President. Whenever they had social events, they were very close. Abigail wrote, whenever she wrote about martha, which was not that much, but when she did write about martha, it was in the most glowing terms. One of the things she did was just after she knew that john was going to be elected, she wrote to Martha Washington, asking for about how to be the first lady . Etiquette and how she would carry herself. And she wrote back and said, you know inside yourself how to behave. We know that is a tradition that continues today for new incoming first ladies. Reach out to the people who have served before, to understand the enormity of this task. Here is a call. It is from ron in washington. Good evening. Thank you for this program. Thank you for taking my call. Ive read some of the earlier works on john adams, but i still think the most comprehensive biography of john adams was half a century ago, by paige smith. I think that really still stands out. I want to get your comments on that. I think no one writes about john adams today without consulting paige smith. He is the foundation for writing about and remarkable to me, because the adams papers had just been open to the public at the time when he started writing his book. Yet, they are so thoroughly researched. That was the first thing that i read and graduate school. That was my introduction to john adams. It is nice to mention some of your books. Were hoping along the way people will be intrigued enough to read more. Heres one, Abigail Adams, a writing life. Abigail and john, the portrait of a marriage. Heres one more, my dearest friends, letters of abigail and john adams. This is one of your books. Are these letters approachable for the everyday person . Can you just dive right in and get a sense of this person . You might need a little bit of Historical Context to understand a few of the things that they are alluding to. The letters are personal and in some ways theyre timeless, because they talk about problems people have today. Concerns that people have today. Not political context, but intimacy of the letters. I will add to that that first of all, your book is excellent because of the foot noting. I do take people into it. But also, abigails letters have been and print and she has been read since 1840 when her grandson First Published an addition of her letters, which went from four additions in the 18 forties, and she was a best seller through the 19th century. People knew her. She has always been famous. I will not be able to find the tweet as quickly as i need to right now, but someone did ask the question, did the adams is ever think about their letters being published . Do you have any sense of as early as 1776, john is telling her to put the letters up to keep them. I think at a certain point, there is almost a consciousness in some of, particularly his letters. They know at a certain point, and i do not know when they cross that threshold, that they are important. At that point, that is one of the reasons that the family saves the letters. Early on, it is a motion with the, miss adorable letter, and things like that. Their letters extend from 1762 to 1801. The most important 40 years of American History. They understood there were prayers and it. They were writing for the ages. This is a tweet from big john, nine nine eight one who said, last week you mentioned martha did not like john adams and how did this affect the relationship between martha and abigail . I do not know that that is true. I think what we said was that abigail and marthas friendship helped facilitate the relationship between washington and adams. When they were trying to understand what a president and Vice President might do. Can you see any evidence for that . Not at all. I think john and George Washington got along pretty well all the time. I john adams was extraordinarily supportive of washington. He was personally injured when some of the press turned on washington. He couldnt believe it. This is one of the things. Martha and george were a hard act to follow. They knew they were going to be difficult. We will move into the years of their one term presidency. It is a time when in one of your books, you called it struck a splendid missouri being in the white house. Explain what that phrase meant. It meant that it was splendid, in that they were at the pinnacle of his political career and her career. They had risen to the top. It was nothing but trouble. Agonizing trouble from the very beginning. At very first, john was enthusiastic about becoming president. Abigail said well, i will stay here with quincy because i have things to do. Ill be taken care johns mother. She said, i will not be there until october. He said that is fine. You dont have to come intellect over. Then, once he was and the presidency, he discovered, it was the loneliest place and the world, and he started writing letters. He dropped everything he was doing. He said drop everything you are doing. Come here. I need you immediately. She did. One of the interesting things, one of the reasons she was hesitant about it if she said, i like to be outspoken. I like to speak my piece, and she knew that in that context she could not. But when she was in quincy she could. That time there was a house they built together called peace filled. Lets take a look at it. In 1787, abigail realized they had outgrown their Little Cottage i. She began to negotiate through her cousin to purchase the house we are standing in front of right now. John adams enjoyed a lot of peace and tranquility at this home as did abigail. He crescent his home peace field. There were two wins on the first floor. Two rooms on the second and three smaller bedrooms on the third floor. A small kitchen in the back of the house. Essentially, they were about seven and a half rooms to this home. This was john and abigails home base. Before becoming first lady, i began with spent nine years in this house. The first year he essentially was sitting up the house, after just reach just returning from europe. She had remembered this house is one of the grand houses in quincy, but her perception of grand had changed since living in europe. He began the right away making plans to enlarge the house she wanted to improve on the size and the height of the ceilings and the size of the space. She would in fact, right to her daughter, warning her not to wear any of her large feathered hats because the ceilings were too low. So abigail began working with an architect to enlarge the size of the home, in effect doubling the size. Adding a long haul and along entertainment room where she would receive her guests. With sensitivity to the architecture on the outside and the flow of the home, she had the builder dig down so that they could lower the floors and get the high ceilings that she desired without disrupting the architecture on the outside of the house. You step down two steps and you are in a whole different world. Youre a difficult day for abigail would be to rise at 5 am. She had many chores to do much of your time here was spent attending the farm, taking care of the orchard and taken care of the house. But she also loved those Early Morning hours to spend by herself, preparing herself for the day but most importantly, having a chance to indulge in one of her novels. The although this is a president ial home, it is the home of a family. And abigail, instead of having servants doing all the work for her, even as a first lady, she would always she would also be contributing to the kitchen in the running of the household. This is something that she continued throughout her life, no matter what her position was. She was very involved. She had children and grandchildren visiting her here and it was a very active and lively household. She also spent a great deal of her time writing because again, theyre misfortune, john and abigails, in being a part, was our fortune. In one letter when hes asking her to come to philadelphia, abigail wood right of the room that she was in and the window and the view that she saw. The beauty which unfolds outside of the window at which i now write temps me to forget the past. An indication that while thicker was back here at peace field, she was on a new beginning as a first lady of the United States as the wife of the president , and also still a mother. She would describe life here at peace feel so romantic lead that john adams would reply in one of his letters, oh my sweet little farm, what would i do to enjoy the without interruption . And of the four years of the adams presidency, how much time did i buckle spend at peace field versus in the capital . She became ill in 1798 and went home and had to stay there for an extended time. And john actually followed her and he stayed there. For too long, according to his cabinet members, who finally urge him to come back to philadelphia, which was then the capital. Im so she tried to stay there for as much time as she could but again, her health caused her to be at home and she was quite ill for close to a year and the possibly close to death during that time. How could he serve as chief executive from afar . This also happened during the vice presidency. When congress was into meeting the Vice President would go back to wherever he lived. And i think that the president , especially during the summer, they would usually leave in the spring and come back in the fall, it was like a seasonal thing. Although he did overdo it a little bit during this time. So it was not unusual for the president to be away at that time. These were very trying and tempestuous years for a brandnew nation. Can you give us a sense of some of the history of the period. Ill ask both of you, of what was happening during the adams administration, the key policy issues and how it was faring in the world stage this new country . I think the major problems were international at that time. There are internal political rifts that you have during this time really the creation of Political Parties and the two party system. But we had problems with the french, we had problem with the, British Particular problems with the french, american Political Parties were divided pro french, pro british, and one of the things that john was troubled with during this time was keeping the country out of war. And he was successful and i think thats probably the thing that he should be most recognized for during the period. And i also find it ironic that he is one president who kept us out of war, avoided war because the revolution couldve and the United States wouldve collapsed in a second war with britain. But the people wouldve gone to war in a drop of a had at that time. They would have. They were ready to go to war and he prevented. It and it also subverted his career. In what way . Because the politicians at that time were maybe like politicians forever, enjoying the exercise of making more. And they were very close to war. And the population, in general was outraged by the piracy that was going on. American ships are being taken on the seas and american diplomats were being badly treated in france especially. The french revolution it happened. John adams, as jim says, kept us out of war. We have a few key dates in a very very historic four years of the adams administration, 1797 to 1801. And a small point for those of you who dont follow early American History, president s than were inaugurated in march now, the date is in january familiar to us now but march to march was the timeframe. And you can see things such as the washington d. C. Selected as the capital in 1800, 1801, chief justice John Marshall selected. I want to go to this date in 1798 with the passage of the alien and sedition acts. What were they and what is the significance and what is the viewpoint of both adams is on this act . The alien and sedition act were a reaction to some of the International Problems at the time. There was a belief on the part of some people that we were about to be overrun by french revolutionaries and that they were influencing people in america, there were rumors about that cities were going to be burnt. It was terrorism that they were anticipating. So americans were afraid of a french at that point . Some of the french, the for example the opposition party, the Democratic Republican Party was very enthusiastic about the french and some of the ideals of the french revolution. Jefferson in particular. Jefferson in particular, this is where they begin to go different directions. Also some of the press was very very vehement in their criticisms of the administration. So one of the things is that they muzzled the press and i think this is the thing probably that john adams is most criticized for. Abigail, i believe, supported john. Well, actually, it wasnt john that started came on to congress and he signed that the legislation. But abigail was even more vehement. This is where i say shes even more conservative than john during this time. And the upshot of this for people who would be breaking the law, if you work caught breaking the alien and sedition acts, what happened . You could be jailed. To recall paige smith was mentioned earlier, hes a biographer. Paige smith said that the press wrote that the press at this time was the most secure realists in American History. They didnt have standards so that the press it was not only that they were supporting the french they made up stories that were not true and adams was seriously worried about this and also should be said the jefferson also supported the alien and sedition act except that he believed the states should be passing sedition loss not the National Government because he was in favor of states rights and that was part of part of what separated them. So it was something that at that time people didnt have the same horror about suppressing the press that we have today. Right, and it was in the heat of the moment. Right. Next question comes from stephen watching us in chicago. Hi steven. Hi there. I was just wondering they say history repeats itself. And i was wondering if there are any president s and first lady, first couple that most resemble or our knowledge of the adams. People talk about george and barbara bush because of the one term presidency and the sun that went on to be president. But is there a better relationship or is that sort of the relationship standard . I hope youll take that question. Theres no one else like avalanche on. First of all we dont have the insights into anyone else is lives. They dont leave us letters telling us. I think whose letters recently were revealed . Lyndon johnsons love letters to lady bird were recently published. And best truman and harry truman wrote letters to each other. Yes. Right. But theres nothing like the avalanche on exchange in American History. Not to the two of you are biased having spent your no were not biased. Really . Its true. No and i think that its the length, its when they were situated in such an important period of time in they were players and so many stages and thats the thing that system. Apart heres the question of a peace field from twitter. Many president s aaron cheeky rights, use their homes as neutral space for meetings john and abigail host dignitaries at peace . Field people came by, i know that but not so much during the presidency, much later in retirement. Remember theaters when john is really quaint ancient and i think its a little while after abigail has passed. Cadets from west point came and they had a band and they played and marched and then they were served punch. The officers, john adams gave a top, a patriotic talk to the troops. And occasionally people would come by but they didnt entertain in the sense of politically entertaining. It was family for the most part. Which is a contrast from matt vernon in the washingtons which seemed to be constantly welcoming people into their house throughout their well i think they did. That i think there was a lot of traffic through their houses. People wanted to be close to the president and they were accessible. I think social standards were different then and standards of hospitality were different. So that if someone came to your door you just didnt turn them away although they might like to have done so. So during the period of the white house, years to continue to write letters as in the time they were separated . Oh, writes. Yes, she did. I think another important point is that when she is with john, it isnt that she isnt writing letters, shes writing letters to other people. While he is president , two of their children are in europe on a diplomatic mission. So theres a lot of letters back and forth between thomas boyle stun and John Quincy Adams to their parents, especially to abigail. And she writes to her sister dress wonderful letters to her sisters who are back in massachusetts for well in New Hampshire and hampshire we have another example of a letter from john to abigail lets watch. I have been much diverted with a little occurrence which took place a few days since in which there to show how little founded in nature the so much boasted principle of liberty and equality. Is neighbor faxon came in one evening and requested to speak to me. His errant was to inform me that if james went to, school it would break up the school for the other lads refused to go. Pray mr. , faxon has the boy misbehaved . If he has let the master turn him out of school. Oh no, there was no complaints of that kind but they did not choose to go to school with a black boy. And why not objective going to meeting, because he does, mr. Affection. She continues on in this vein saying, they allow him to play at the dance and they still go. And she closes the section saying the boy is a free man as much as any of the young men, and rarely because his face is black, is he to be denied instruction . How is he to be qualified to procure a livelihood . Is this the christian principle of doing to others as we would have others do to us . This is a letter to john adams as he serving in the presidency. Shes not just for counting and experience in her life, shes hoping to influence his thinking, it seems. So how concerned was he with rights and equality at this point in his presidency . I think its a little different thing. And i think this is james that shes talking about who was an adams servant. James was a special person to abigail. And when abigail, in a few months after this goes to philadelphia, john says, dont bring james. He didnt want blacks in philadelphia as his servants. Its not really clear why, but i think it was a sense that they could be corrupted because there were much fewer blacks in massachusetts and it was a larger free black community, and slaves in philadelphia. And he says to her dont have him come beyond philadelphia or beyond new york. Have him go back. And he writes a second letter and this is very revealing to me and he says, you have babe him. And i think he was special. I think she taught him to read. And so i dont think, i dont know that she was instructing adams so much on this as that she was showing her love and affection for james as an individual regardless of his. Race here is a quote that one of our viewers ascending, i believe it looks like shes quoting john, a letter of john to abigail in 1774. We live, my dear soul, and an age of trial. What will be the consequence, i know not. Do you have any thoughts on that . It is a wonderful quote, because it does tell us that they had no idea that there would be war, although i guess they suspected there would be a war. They did not know its duration, they did not know it would separate the colonies from the mother country. All of the things that we took for granted that we know about them, we have had if we go back to a letter like this and viewed from their point of view. He is saying we do not know what is going to happen. A few more things from this time period of the presidency. We said at the outset that she was criticized by the press, who sometimes used the phrase to describe her as mrs. President. What is the whole context of that reference . The context is this cute press at the time. They attacked a woman. It was not very nice. The British Press did the same. Refer to them as darby and john. They had attacked them because he was the american minister to great britain. She was accustomed to not having good relations with the press, but it didnt endear the press to her. It speaks to the tone of journalism at that time. Did she complain to family members about this . Was she heard by the way she was treated in the press or took it as part of the politics . I think she probably took it as part of the politics. She was much more defensive about her husband. Abigail did not have great ambition for herself. But she had great ambition for john. Great ambition for her boys, particularly for John Quincy Adams. She was very defensive of them. I think this is one of the reasons why the relationship with jefferson was so difficult, because she had really loved Thomas Jefferson as a friend, and she believed jefferson turned on her husband. How did she express her support of her husband in addition to just writing letters to him . He stayed there. He went there. She was with them all of the time. When he needed her, she was there. Was there an avenue for her to respond to the press . Not that i can think of. Her avenue of responding to the press was, oh, she was in favor of this edition laws. She liked the idea of curtailing the press. Next telephone call is from alan. Hi. Good program. Thank you for taking my call. Im a member of the press, and ive heard two callers tonight kind of insinuate that abigail was not a good mother because of the situation with charlie. That they talk nothing about john quincy becoming president. I believe he was a leading abolitionist. And here we are, just following American History, whether it is the kkk still doing thing in their south, whether its the tea party now which is 97 caucasian. Cant we at least give abigail, through horrible quay of roses and say that she might have influence john quincy in terms of the color of a mans skin. Should we not determine how he place that and society . We are going to stop you right there about her influence on reason John Quincy Adams . John quincy lived with her until he was 11 years old at which point he went to europe with john. She did not see him again until he was 17 or 18. He became a man. Under the tutelage of his father. But she was very influential in those first 11 years. This tendency to blame the mother every time something goes wrong with the children. Circumstances happen. There is possibly a genetic predisposition to alcoholism in that family. Abigails brother died of it and apparently there were other members of the family. It was certainly in the culture. The kind of sensitivity to alcohol. A revolution happened when her children grew up. They grew up in wartime. That could be very damaging to children for their psyches. In the year 1800, it was a very difficult year for the adams is. A campaign for reelection hardfought against a big political rival and Thomas Jefferson. They lost that. They also moved to the white house. They lost their son in that year. Lets talk about all of those things. First of all, the decision to run for the office again. Did abigail support johns interest and continuing the presidency . We do not have as much as we had in the decision for the previous election, where they agonized over it. They went back and forth in those letters. Should i, shouldnt i . Should i, should not . I dont have as much of that for the second term. He was in harness. Part of it was, by this time the Political Parties were so strong, he just did not want the other party in. He wanted to follow it through with what he was doing. He had. Even though there were several bad things happening around or to the adams family at that time, is that actually, in 1800, he had one of his great successes. The convention with the french that ended the mountie clare war. I also would emphasize that the Political Parties were not written into the constitution and washington and adams both, and many of the people around them, did not anticipate Political Parties. They thought they had a constitution, they had a government. Everyone was going to agree it would be harmonious. It did not work out that way. It was a surprise to them. I think it was a surprise to adams that there was so much dissension in the administration. The last four months of the administration as the first occupants of the white house. We have the graphic of the white house in 1800. It just really looks pretty miserable. Almost like life almost lifelike. It was pretty miserable. They did not have heat. They had to gather wood such as it was, in that area. They had to start fires in the fireplaces. It was not finished when they moved in. Abigail describes georgetown as a swamp. The city was not yet built. They moved in before there was a proper white house. It also affected the way she entertained. It affected her entire role as first lady in that she was limited by what she could do in that drafty, cold, in completed house. To go to the second floor it must have been shared missouri by the congress who are arriving in the city most of them lived in rooming and boarding houses. Another thing was, it was seasonal. Congress came and went. There were not a lot of people who lived year round in washington at that time. We have this graphic we have been showing of logarithmic hung inside rooms of the warehouse. Did that really happen . I do not know. I suspect it sounds like abigail, actually. A pregnant a pragmatic solution. It would not be a good place to dry laundry though because it was dark and cold. We talked about charles dying. Any more to say about how that might have affected her and anymore for people to know that the death of that son in that turbulent year couldve affected them . It was a terrible heartache for her and for him. He denied it, though. He tried to standoff from. It he wrote to jefferson that it was the greatest grief of his life. Chan, youre on the air. Hi. Thank you for putting on the series. Im curious about what role religion played in her life, given her father was a pastor. My sense was that john was raced with more cavernous bent but as an older man what about abigail . Thank you for that question. Abigail was a very religious woman. She was so religious that in times of turbulence, when things were drawn in her life she thought it was a case of punishment. When there was an epidemic during the warriors, when sean was away, when people were dying, their servants were sick and so forth. She said it is a scourge sent upon us for some sun. She truly believed that life was providence shall. Her letters continually reference the bible. I think that when things got bad in her life, she became more religious. And when, and more conservatively religious. I agree with him that she was probably more conservative and her religion than john adams. We have about ten minutes left in our discussion. Abigail adams and series on the biographies of the first ladies with our two guests here. When sean adams realized he had lost the presidency, how did he take that . How did abigail take it . I think they were well, by the time the electoral vote was counted, they pretty well knew that he was not going to be reelected. I think they were disappointed. One of the things that john said throughout his public life was that he was always going to retire. He was always going to go back to the farm and retire. He loved the farm, so in that sense, it wasnt so bad. But i think it was the defeat the ideas and some people refer to, as the revolution of 1800 because it was such a dramatic change with the other parties coming in. He did not attend the inauguration. Some people say it was because he was being spiteful, or whatever. Those of us who defend that say he had to catch an early stage i dont know. It might be somewhere in between. That part of it was, a man who, in a sense, he felt betrayed him and defeated him. I think that was probably the hardest thing. This couple who had spent so many years apart and the development of their country. Now they had this opportunity to live together. How long did they live together in the post white house years . Abigail lived until 1818 and they lived together for 18 years. What were those years like for them . They were idyllic in some way and very difficult in other ways. It was not an easy retirement. All the time. They were very happy to be together. Abigail refused to go visit her daughter, for instance, because she said i cannot leave john. I cannot leave john. During that period of time, her daughter had a mastectomy in 1811 without anesthesia. That is so hard to think of. She ultimately died, two years later. But she came from new york states to her parents home to die. So they were very close. It was a time of satisfaction and peace, and also, very great disruptions in their lives. They had problems with grandchildren and children. There was constant drama going on. One grandson went off and fought in the revolution in venezuela. They had to bail him out, or not bail him out. John refused to bail him out. They had Financial Difficulties for a while. There was bank failure in england. Their son had invested in. Thats where it sounds like downtown abby. All the drama. One of the problems with the daughter was that she had a terrible husband. They very early on realized, and they were constantly worried about her, not just physically, but everything about their lives. From the perspective of your lives work and letters, they were together so obviously they stopped writing letters at that point. They stopped writing letters to each other, but she is still writing to other people, and john is still writing to other people. Two who, most prolifically . They are writing John Quincy Adams as frequently away on diplomatic assignments who later will be secretary of state. He is in washington as a senator. She has a sister who lives in New Hampshire at the time. I think mary is her favorite sister. Her older sister. But she writes to children, friends. Close to her granddaughter caroline. Lovely correspondence between her and this young girl. When john quincy goes to england, he meets his wife who is a catherine there. What was the relationship between the two adams there . It was a good one. I think Louisa Catherine was quite shocked by the culture she encountered in new england after having had a rather chin teal upbringing in england and in france, and was quite shocked by the people and surroundings in the customs. Ivan church, which she attended. When she went to the old house, she said it was like oh and analysts are. Right. Well, lets actually have our closing video return to peace, field where the adams spent their final years. Avalanche awe it 17 years of retirement here at peace field with her husband john adams. Here, the old couple could go on their children and grandchildren and enjoy the peace and tranquility that this place offered them throughout their lives. The president s bedroom is a reflection of the warmth that this has provided them. It was inviting, sunny and bright. Abigail enjoyed many hours in this room right into her friends, writing to her family enjoying the time with her husband. On october 27th of 1818, abigail passed away from typhoid fever. She was 74 years old and john autumns had lost his dearest front. The only way that he could find comfort was in the pen. He would penned a letter to Thomas Jefferson letter jefferson know that he lost his dear friend. And he would say to his family, if only i could lie down beside her and died. Too can you talk about john adams life in the years after abigail died . Yes. John was surrounded by, family so he was not isolated. He had always as his emmanuel insists and hostess and caretaker, a niece who lived with him and had luck with him for most of their live her life and grandchildren came and children came so there was always traffic in the house, people came and militia came from Office Boston as you said. There was a lot going on during those years. And he was quite policy. He couldnt write his own letters, so he had to have on amanuensis. He had someone right for him. But he carried on this incredible correspondence of jefferson join those. Years culminating as our viewers probably know with the two of them, bitter enemies finally coming to peace and dying together on the 50th anniversary of the declaration of independence on july 4th which is really quite amazing an amazing piece of American History. Theres a question here about whether or not there is a bloodline still living of john and abigail. Or is there an adams family still today . We were joking about this before. Yes. We were laughing. Why dont you respond to . That there are several that the massachusetts distort with society in the adams family have been close over the centuries. And theres an association, an adams Family Association to the Adams Memorial association. And i think they have more than 100 members. But what we were joking about is that we frequently get questions from people thinking, believing that they are related or a descendant of john and abigail. Some of them may be but there are many more descendants than i think are possible. Also the name gets lost because women of course mary out into the additives named gets lost. In a few minutes left, stephanie from farmington hills, michigan. You are going to be our last caller, stephanie. Whats your . Question thank you. I am wondering, what became of now these children after she died very young . Did they remain with the adams at peace field . And thank you for taking my call. Ive enjoyed the. Show thank you. They were adults when she died. The daughter caroline was married you. You ndt. De windt. Our less view of abigails death apiece field. All right, we dont have. That so we have very little bit of time. Left so and bringing this full circle, for people who have been introduced to Abigail Adams, tonight was the important thing to know about her . What was her impact your influence on American History she was influential and particularly as we think back to the american revolution, she is the only woman her record of letters provides the only insights we have of the revolution at a sustained period sustained level during that entire period of the revolution and the Early National period. So shes historically significant. She also was an exemplary person and tells us about womens lives in that time and it what it was like to be not just first lady or not just the wife of the american minister, but to be a wife and a mother, and a sister, and a daughter. Doctor taylor, what would you say . I think the thing that i always think about with abigail is a relationship, the partnership. Without having a others not john, without john does not. You and therefore johns importance to history. So the reason why she is important is the relationship . Right. Without the kind of support that she provided both to him in europe, in the presidency, and the vice presidency, the more important that he didnt have to worry. She was so trustworthy that she could take care of things, he could go off and be this great public person which is exactly what she wanted. To our two guests are understanding of the life and legacy of the nations second firstly avalon hymns. Good evening everyone