Transcripts For CSPAN3 First Ladies Influence Image - Martha Washington 20240712

Found the washington, everything Martha Washington did likewise. It was a business relationship, but not without affection. I think they had deep respect and affection for each other. She was as close to her hometown and she would get. She owned most of this whole block going back a couple of acres, which means she owned a huge chunk of what williamsburg was. There was a lot of tragedy in Martha Washingtons life. She lost her first husband. She was raised a rich woman, what that means an 18th century is now what it means today. When she marriage George Washington, she brings with her to mount for then 12 house slaves and that is really almost an unimaginable luxury. It would take her ten days to travel here to valley forge from mount vernon in her carriage with her slaves and this was a difficult journey. Marthas experience had prepared her to become the first first lady. Born in virginia in 1731, Martha Washington was 57 years old and 1789 when she and George Washington, once again, left their beloved mount vernon home in service to the country. This time, their definition was new york city, selected as the nations first capital, where they began their first of two terms as president and first lady, setting important president s for all of the successors. Good evening, and welcome to see set spans brandnew series, first ladies, influence and a much. For the next year, we will be spending time on personal biographies of each of the women who served in that role. As a window into american history. Our first installment, Martha Washington. Tonight, for the next 90 minutes, well try to serve up the essential Martha Washington, with a few people have come to know her well. President ial historian, Richard Norton smith, whose biography of George Washington is called patriarch, and Patricia Brady who has done a biography of Martha Washington, and subtitled in american life. Pat brady, well start with you. Why does Martha Washington matter . She was the first, and one of the best. Those things always count. She was able to help George Washington make it through the American Revolution and then to awful terms as president. She was his heartbeat, always. Richard, this was something that you championed always, you were a Guiding Light into how cspan might do it. What was your thought as a historian about why studying first ladies should matter in the society we live in today . First of all, we dont know enough about them as individuals. We dont know enough about them for the windows that they open upon their particular periods. Individually, they are fascinating. Collectively, it seems to me that they provide a way of appraising not only womens history, but the history of the country and any number of Political Institutions as well. But ultimately, i suspect our viewers will be surprised by a lot of the information that they hear over the next year. These are surprising stories that we are going to be telling. For Martha Washington, we went on location to a number of sites important to her biography, and during the next 90 minutes, well show you the video. As we always do, this will be interactive. We will begin taking phone calls and will tell you how you can be part of that conversation, but you can join immediately by social media. If youre on twitter, you contenders a question or comment using the hashtag first ladies, and on facebook, if you go to cspan site, we have a question posted for you of anything youd like to talk about about Martha Washingtons time or life, and we welcome your participation. Thats what its all about here. Well, i want to go to wolf in the first 15 or 20 minutes on the first two terms there. Not the white house. The president ial mansion in new york city. 1789, she comes to new york city a few months behind George Washington. Start by telling us what kind of opinion at the American Public had of these two people as they took this important role. Well, the opinion they had at these two had begun with the revolution. At that point, when martha wood ride to join her husband as she did every year,v people would just line up beyond every tree and fence post to look at her. And, as she said, i thought that i were a great somebody. She was somebody for the first time as his wife. And the newspapers reported on it, how important it was for him to have her. So they started then, and when they came back as president and his lady, they really already had the public had an opinion of them. They were singular characters. The other politicians were not in the same ballpark at all. Give people a sense of how hard it was to make the basic decisions about how the new government would function, including this role. Well, in fact, the decisions about what a republic was, what a president was were inseparable from many of those that we would almost condescendingly today a tribute to the east wing of the white house. For instance, with the president and first lady except private dinner invitations . What the president and first lady go to private funerals . What do you call a president . What do you call his consort . The reason that these questions matter, is that each one defined the nature of this new government, which was, after, all to some degree, a spin off from its royal antecedents. And, yet, the country was put down the middle between those who feared that it was in any way a ping george the third. Then and now, its remarkable, we still have this dichotomy about what a president is. How close do a president and his wife get to us . The fact that mrs. Washington had a friday night reception that anyone could walk into, as long as they were decently dressed. You certainly would not find that in london. And it helped to define, not only her role, but in a larger sense, the access that americans would have to their president s. Staying with that thought, if the only models that the washingtons and the rest of the founding government had where the very sort of european monarchies they fought a revolution to distance itself from, where the washingtons job there are examples from . They talked it out. People see washington always as the strong, marveled leader, but he was more than a statute. He always liked to talk to his associates. That is one reason he was criticizing as a general, because he liked to talk to his staff before making a decision. In government, he thought all the best minds of the country would get together, talk things through and make the right decision. Because we were the first modern republican. Its so hard for us to understand, there was nobody like us. Whatever they did mattered. It was important. Lets take a snapshot of that modern republic and just some basic facts about what america look like in 1790. This was from the first census ever done by the new country. Interestingly, the census maker was Thomas Jefferson. Here are some of the fact that they gathered about the new United States. The 13 former colonies, now the 13 states, had a population of just under 4 million. 757 of those were blacks, about 19 , and only 9 were free. The per capita income, 437 dollars. Interestingly, if you look back before the war that was just before the war, if you translated that 2013 dollars, 11,500. The largest cities in the country . New york, philadelphia and boston. What should we learn about those three large cities . First of all, ill point out, two of those 13 states were not yet members of the union. The fact is, both North Carolina and rhode island held back when the rest of the union adopted the constitution. America was overwhelmingly a rustic, agrarian, farmed based society. It ended at the appalachian mountains. They were only, in 1800, there were three roads that crossed. The United States was a nation always. It was three distinct nations, new england, the middle states, and it was the south. And each of them had one major city. Philadelphia, as you say, the largest city in the nation, with all of 40,000 people. So one of the things that Martha Washington found not to her liking was the fact that she was uprooted from but the agricultural, rural life at mount vernon that she knew. That she had been born into, that she had mastered and relished in many ways. Its only the latest chapter of her sacrifice, which in its own way, i think you could argue, matches anything that her husband sacrificed. Well, thats true. She did not want to go to a city. She did not want to live in the north. She wanted to be home at mount vernon. But she had to be there with her husband to do what her husband wanted to do. She gave it up. But the thing that made her so very unhappy was to discover once she got there, that washington had consulted with john j and James Madison and john adams and they had all decided that president s could have no personal life. That any entertainment, any going to visit people, any having people in was a public act. So they could not just go hang out with their friends or ask their friends over. That was just for one year. The first year was terrible for her at the same time that it was good for him, because jefferson hadnt come back from paris yet. So that was probably his honeymoon with the presidency. Let me put a quote in here to get marthas state of mind. This is a quote from her. I never go to the public place. Indeed, i think i am more like a state prison or than anything else. There is certain grounds that for me which im lets not depart from, and i cannot do as i like, i am obstinate and i stay home a great deal. You know what . Offsetting that, theres a line that i think someone should carve over the interest to the white house because, first of all, it goes to the heart, i think, of who this woman was and why she was the ideal first first lady. She said, and the quarters too good to spoil, but its very close, she talked about the experience of her life had taught her that our happiness our misery depends on our disposition and that our circumstances. That is remarkably wise observations and distilled from a life full of tragedy. She had lost a husband, she lost all four of her children. She lost countless nieces she outlived all of her siblings. And then she found herself repeatedly uprooted from the life she expected to follow george either on the battlefield, or a different kind of battlefield as together with very little precedent, they devised this new government. She chose to follow him. She couldve stayed behind. This is a mark of their partnership, is it not . They were very much partners. He was so miserable until he could get her to join him wherever he was. But i was going to say, the quote about the prisoner of state, that was in the first year in new york, which was the bad here for her, when she was still having to follow the rules of the men. When they went home to mount vernon, she worked on her husband so that when they went to philadelphia the next year, the rules were changed. She wasnt a prisoner. And he was also off on a month long tour of the northern i was going to say the northern colonies, the northern states. Attempting to unite the country. She was depressed and by herself, so she was much less happy at that time than any other time, really. When she moved to philadelphia and became happier when the restrictions were lifted, she lived in philadelphia, and the people there. Well show you a picture and get a sense of their life in the second capital of the United States. Its here, that Martha Washington carved out what the role of the first lady should do. Some of the social events that she wouldve been responsible for overseeing our state dinners that were held a weekly, on thursdays. As well as the drawing room receptions Martha Washington personally organized every friday evening. The state dinners would have been events that martha wouldve had to help to coordinate, these took place on thursdays every week. Just above this dining room up on the second floor was a drawing room, and that is where Martha Washington held her drawing room receptions on fridays. Those events were a little bit more informal as opposed to the state dinners down here. And George Washington was always in attendance, he probably preferred those social engagements on friday more than the events he held here in this room, because they were informal in nature. The events were open to the public, anyone of social standing with welcome to attend and most people remarked that George Washington was more at ease with his wife, Martha Washington, at his side. We know more that washington live and a household of 30 people, this include paid servants, indentured servants and enslaved people from mount vernon. She was the personal weight of Martha Washington and because of the nature of our duties, its likely that she would have slapped right here in the house. And the time that Martha Washington was here, she runs away. She escapes to claim her freedom. This was a major blow to washington. She felt very betrayed and she had promised her to her granddaughter once married. Washingtons life in philadelphia. But did you want to comment about that . I need to Say Something there, about sappy 19th century images. The 19th century liked the idea of having an almost regal republican court. There was no diocese in those rooms, there was no place where they stood raised above the others. Nor did she stand, she sat on a sofa and guests came to meet her there and then walked around the room as they pleased. The idea that it was somehow so regal is so wrong. It was not. Its so frustrating, and anyone who has dealt with the primary sources from this period we are grateful for what we have, but were constantly hunkering for more because we have countless secondhand reports from events like this, and they are unanimous. Everyone talks about what a charming conversation with martha was, how she was always cheerful. While she was always interested in her guests. Her smile, her beautiful teeth. Not many people had beautiful teeth then. Its important as we talk about her action with the American Public, the slaves that they brought with them, we just heard the story of one, is a good entry point to talk about George Washingtons relationship. When they married, they felt the same. A good part of weaver journey it was built on the labour of enslaved black people, so they agreed with it. At that time, washington was rather strict with his slaves. But as time went on, his view started to change. It was the only one of the Founding Fathers who freed his slaves. The rest kept them until they died. Her opinions did not change. It was a very unfortunate i wanted it to be different, and ive read every word that i could find. And the one slave that she actually owned personally, she did not free. She left to her grandson. So the truth is, she felt that it was the way society was supposed to be and that she had left her down because she had always been kind to her, and she did not understand that she wanted to be free, that she wanted to learn to read and write, and that she wanted to find christ and her own way. In a lot of way, it can be said of washington and lincoln that he outgrew the racist culture that produced him. And one major reason was because, during the revolution, after having initially turned thumbs down to the idea of recruiting free blacks, the fact of the matter is that African Americans played a vital role in the winning of the revolution. Washington saw firsthand what these people were capable of doing. He saw the courage, he saw the sacrifice. They were humanized in a way that, quite frankly, on the plantation was not possible. So life taught him a lesson very different from martha. Washington spent the entire second term in philadelphia. Your chapter in that is the torments of the second term. One of the things that we so often dont learn about was about the trials of things like epidemics. Philadelphias population was more than decimated, 12 died in the early part. What was life like there . Yellow fever is one of those diseases that one tends to think of at the southern, as a caribbean disease, new orleans has yellow fever. But the east coast of the United States was frequently struck with yellow fever. And it was the yellow fever killing people right and left. Alexander hamilton had a very bad case but survived. So that was part of the torment, but the real torment for washington was to see that his friends and his the men he respected, instead of all coming together to make a new form of government were falling apart into two parties. He would never have believed that jefferson and madison and hamilton would become enemies of one another, and that they would be doing everything they could to keep each other out of office instead of working together. Before we leave the section, because were going to begin working our way through earlier parts of her life, you mention adams. In fact, Martha Washington had a relationship with abigail adams. And i was tickle to find out there was almost a sisterhood of revolutionary ladies. Can you tell us about who is in that and how they interacted with each other . They really had a lot in common. They were both wives who were partners and not wives who were stuck to the side and left out of everything. And they both were deeply committed to the idea of this new republic. That is something that they care about. They were very political in that sense . They were very political in that way. They also helped each other socially. Abigail was extremely pleased and tickled by the fact that her place was to the right of Martha Washington on the sofa and, that if another lady came up and took her place before she arrived that the president himself would ask her to leave so that applicable could sit there. So she almost had a crush on Martha Washington. She said she was a wonderful person, which she was. Also, abigail, being an adams, has left us some great accounts of life in philadelphia, including the friday night receptions. But the one person who escapes her hash tongue is for martha. She talks about Martha Washington, she, says she did not have a tincture of utter about her. Even now, it does evoke the sense of, this woman, who couldve been queen, George Washington could have been king, she couldve been queen and not the least of their accomplishment is that each refused the crown. Last question for now. You paint a portrait that George Washington was a robust subscriber to newspapers of the time and read them and that Martha Washington devoured the papers as well. She did. She loved to read. She read a lot. And when she did not actually read the papers herself, washington would frequently spend an evening reading aloud to her and whoever else was there, he would read a story and then they would all talk about it. She was not a person who was out of what was going on and politics at all. That doesnt mean she liked what she read. How did the process treat her . Not personal criticism, but one of the figures from an early day, even in new york, was the whole democratic, jeffersonian element who were always on the lookout for anything that seemed monarch recall. There were those that thought that the president weekly levy on tuesday afternoon, and hard dinner every thursday, and or frighten interception, and the fact that he wrote in a carriage to federal hall, they learned all this together and suspected aristocratic, if not royalists to gradations. They were always on the lookout of that, not the first lady per se, but the administration she represented. The difference from martha and every other first lady, beginning with abigail, is that these were private comments. Others made private, unpleasant comments about her, but it did not appear in the papers. Nobody said, oh, shes so uppity, she so full of herself or whatever they might want to say about her. That wives were off limits, but once the adams came in, no, from then on, wives have been very game. I want to give you the phone lines in about ten minutes, and you can join in this way. If you live in the in eastern time sign, this 2025853881, and you can tweet us with the hashtag first ladies or post on facebook and thats the way to be involved. Williamsburg virginia was the place where George Washington and martha met. We will learn a little bit more about Martha Washingtons life in williamsburg, next. Williamsburg is as close to her hometown as Martha Washington would get. She is connected with this place from even well before she was born. Her great grandfather was the first director of the parish church, from 16 64 to 16 88. You cant get more embedded in the life of this town than that. Her grandfather, orlando jones, we have his house that is reconstructed here on glasser street. They owned a plantation right outside of town. And then their daughter, francis, mary john average and they moved out to kent county, which is no more than 30 miles away. And thats where martha was born, chestnut grove. Her growing up there, williamsburg was then the center of political and social and cultural life in all of virginia, but certainly in this part of virginia. Given the fact that her father was engaged in a lot of political and economic activity, this is the place where he wouldve came to more often than any other place. This is the area where she was born too, because if you were anyone in society, you came to williamsburg if you are from new cant. Her mother, being a williamsburg society, when she became of the age where she was being brought into society, she was being brought to the balls and the assemblies here. She was at the balls at the royal governors palace. She was certainly at the assemblies and places like the raleigh tavern. So when it is time to be brought out into society, williamsburg was the place to be because her mother knew that williamsburg was where her daughter needed to be. Martha falls in love with daniel costas, her first husband. She knows hes a farmer, a plantation order, a man of new cant, but she doesnt know that he is the son of a man who owns seven properties, all the northern neck, most of the Eastern Shore and she falls in love with his son, daniel. Thinking hes this man from new cant. And when dana goes to his father and says he wants to mary martha danger edge, he says that our families not 14th enough to marry into the family. And he said, no. But the damages were well known. Martha was known for her personality, and it was that one nature that people fell in love with her so jon blair and john pachter go to john pachter on marthas behalf and said that when she made her, youll change your mind about that. Id love to figure out what the meeting between john and Martha Dandridge was, and with he said that he cannot imagine anything for his son but marrying the young dandridge girl. This was the place where she owned property and a house in which her first husband and her children are buried right outside of town. Oliver family, the closest members of her family are within 20 or 30 miles of williamsburg so she can easily reconnect with them. We are at the church and williamsburg, which is Martha Washingtons home church. Her great grandfather was the first minister of the church, buried on the inside, her grandparents and his wife are buried here, and more closely connected with Martha Washington than any one else, other than George Washington, her first has been in the first two children. This is the final resting place of danielss first husband. This town was ordered for him from london, and although he and both of their first two children, the first son and daughter, were first entered at their plantation outside of williamsburg, their remains and the stones were moved here to her Family Church in the early part of the 20th century. This is the tournament, one of the buildings that Martha Washington owned and williamsburg. She owned most of these buildings, she owned a huge chunk of what the city was. She was the political, social and center of the world, so she was here when her husband daniel park custis was a member of this community, and was here when George Washington was a member was a political leader and the colony, and in order to be able to detect and promote her own business interests in the area. Some beautiful scenes of colonial williamsburg. What about her was important to the woman she became . I think one of the first things we have to realize is that she was a teenager when she became the fiancee of daniel park custis. And he was 20 years older. And he was a bachelor because his dad never let him marry. And not only did she overcome this on part of his father, but she helped him come into his life with the children and everything else. But he was so much richer than those people around, she came from a lower gym tree family. They were not so rich. And she learned how to manage property and demanded money and to take care of things that would serve really well for the rest of her life. She was smart as far as money went. 25 and she became a widow. One statistic to put this in perspective, mount vernon at its peak was about 8000 acres. Well, daniel park custis, when they were married, and martha was 19, 000, he brought 18,000 acres into this marriage. The video understated how curmudgeonly daniels father was. His tombstone as an inscription that he wrote, which announces that he had never been happy, except one living apart from his wife. They had a tempestuous relationship. Whatever it was that this 18, 19 year old young woman was able to say made an amazing impression that nobody would have predicted. It tells you something about, you know, the force of her character. And her personality. She becomes a very wealthy widow, perhaps the most in virginia. So she was quite a catch. What about George Washington did she see . Mostly that he was such a honk. He was six foot two at a time when most men were five eight, five nine. A wonderful horsemen, wonderful athlete. Fabulous dancer. Very charming, and he really liked women. He loves to talk to women always. And he has begun to show the kind of leadership that he would show more of, but in the estimation of those days, he was the lucky one. She was the catch rather than he. A colonel at the time. He would also be a real catch, remember, she had four children by daniel custis. Two died quite young, and two of them survived for now. Of course, she had all that property. So George Washington would also fulfill battle roles, even as a partner. And she could trust him. Because he was, so clearly for the first time, a person of such integrity. On that note, just to get an idea of what it was like for women. Women had what kind of Property Rights . And as a widow, she was in fine shape. Her husband did not leave any trustees, so she could do what she wanted to. Is that common . Not so common, he did not get around to hiring male trust these. All of their financial and any other kind of dealings were carried out by their husbands. She had a dour of the custis estate, that she had a lifetime interest in, and that included about 85 slaves. The rest had to be managed for her children. Our Twitter Community is really enjoying your comment of George Washington as a honk. He was. We see pictures of Martha Washington such as the picture we have on the screen now. And her biography, you have a very different Martha Washington. How accurate is his portrayal . Very accurate. And people have criticize and said, why do you have to show her young . Well, we all start young, youre not born 65 years old, jump out of the womb with the mob cap on. It was important to know what she looked like as a young woman. I took a picture from mount vernon to the faces lap at lsu, which is forensic anthropology, and they didnt age regression to show what she actually looked like at 25. I wanted to say, well, what did george see when the door was opened and he walked into the drawing room. What kind of woman did he set eyes on . It was not the old lady, it was a beautiful young woman. About the children. Martha washington had four. She all lived all of them. But by the time she met george, there were two living children. What was his attitude towards the children . Did he take them on as his own . He did. Later on, he adopted the two grandchildren. Washington loved children. I think washington was sensitive to the fact that he had no children of his own and that would be a subject of pure speculation, which has not prevented historians from speculating. He treated his children as if they were his own. Its interesting, by one estimate she brought 20,000 pounds to their marriage, and spent a good deal of, that sending away orders to lack stalls, for patsy. The daughter and she spent quality time with him. And lost both of them. It was a shattering experience. Patsy, who died of epilepsy, one day at dinner and jackie, who had not participated in the revolution until the very end and joined his stepfathers staff came down with typhus and died a few days later. Most people, the average Life Expectancy would have been about mid fifties or sixties . Except you need to think of the fact that a large part of those in the mortality figures are Young Children who died before they are five or six. The death rate among Young Children, and also of women giving birth who so frequently died in childbirth that those figures are skewed. If you live beyond six and if you survive childbirth, the chances of your living to the seventies were fine. Washington men really lived beyond the safeties, which is why she was reluctant to take the presidency. Shady since he was living on borrowed time. Time for some phone calls. And the first is from jennifer. Whats your question . I was wondering what marthas relationship was to general washingtons staff. People like Alexander Hamilton and maybe some of the politicians like monroe and maybe even madison, especially considering that he did lose her children. Thats a great question, because from the time she first gave birth at 1819, she was a wonderful mother. She doubted on them and during the war with the young aides to come, she was like a house mother at a fraternity. She saw to it that they had enough and had a dry socks, and they did the important things and concerned themselves with them and forever afterwards, they remembered her as their mother. They also had a sense of humor. They love ladies, and this was before they married betsy skyler. They had a very amorous tomcat that they named hamilton in tribute to the future secretary of the presidency. Im going to move onto another question. This is from tom, watching us from the santa. There was a very special relationship, how did Martha Washington get along . He was another of the young men that became one of the most unhappy. He was escaping from persecution by his in laws, and by the court, and he came there as a young man. She saw him as another son. She treated him that way and where people could be made over and he could be made over. He was one of the many observers to give us a window and why did martha spent every winter, she loved her husband madly. Madly. Our next call comes from montpelier virginia, home of Thomas Jefferson, and another path. Youre on, pat. Good evening. Hi i just read washington a few months ago, and at this time he mentions that the judge a woman left because martha had told them would pass down to her daughter and did not want to work for the daughter. That was actually the granddaughter, the daughter was dead by. Then martha had three granddaughters and the eldest one, a lies was fairly bad tempered and very capricious. I dont think anybody wouldve wanted to work with her, much less belong to her. And certainly when she was told that elijah had requested her and that they had try to go home, they would have been decided that enough was enough and took off. The montpelier folks are going to be mad at me. You are going to Say Something. Just around the story, friends of theirs smuggled them and then there was this conundrum because mrs. Washington wanted them back, and wanted them to advertised for his return. It put washington in a very awkward situation. And our, burnish again. Up next, nancy, what is your question . Im a historian, tell me what you think about how Historic Sites deal with first ladys, and particularly, Martha Washington. Is she well represented or are there are other things that we can do to talk about what she did and how she was a help to her husband. In philadelphia, for example, it would be good to see even more done about Martha Washington as the first lady there, but outmaneuvering and they have done an incredible job. Mount vernon is really the leader among all of the Historical Houses in the nation, and they have an actress who portrays Martha Washington very beautifully. And they really make clear how important she was, that she was not just a hostess. Next, surely. Washing us in tucson, youre on. Id like to ask about the customs league mansion. Have you been to visit it . Yes. Several times. I grew up in washington area, and i was just there, and i saw that it was being renovated. I was just curious, i did really remember why it was in the custis family. Marthas grandson who was adopted, along with his others, after washington that he was on his own, he decided to build a beautiful mansion, which was arlington. This was the custis mansion. It never belong to robert lee. Robert married his daughter, and cared for when he was not about building buildings and all. But it passed from washington custis to his daughter, mary, to the league son. Lee was more of a caretaker than anything else. But he is the most famous of all of them. If you want to humanize the washingtons, it is a wonderful story about how george and martha agreed to disagree about young wash, or tub, who most people agree was spoiled royally by his grandmother. He was in and out of school, and there are these wonderful letters in which they poured out the benefit of the Life Experience and totally wasted on tub, who would go on to become famous to George Washington. When the new couple married, George Washington was in the couple of building mount vernon. Mount vernon existed as a farmhouse, but was in the process of adding a second story, so it was an eight room house. Doing that to pay for the house . It was his pride, that he would not want to be married a rich woman and i think that it was to show that he do add a lot. Is it fair to call it the centerpiece of the washington existence . It was the north star, the places always wanted to return to, the place they were happiest. Yet, its remarkable, not to jump ahead, but after the president died, maybe the greatest sacrifice of all that martha was asked to make, and yet, the last, ultimate she was willing to have his remains removed from government and moved to the new Capital Building in washington. That never happen. Bureaucracy took over. It shows you how bad politics works out. They got to arguing, they did not take him away. Ill show you next to some of the views of mount vernon when we visited with our cameras. Its clear that after martha arrives at melbourne in april of 1759, theres a lot of management that she has to do. When she marries George Washington, she brings with her, to melbourne in 12 house slaves. And that is really almost and unimaginable luxury. These are slaves who are not producing crops, which is where your income was coming from. They are doing things like cooking, serving at tables, cleaning house, doing laundry, doing sewing. This is not productive labor in the sense that its not producing income. So she brings those slaves with her and she brings Financial Resources to the marriage as well as her managerial skills, making about foreign its accessible operation and makes it possible for washington to be a way for eight years fighting a war. The fact that washington has this support system that enables him to volunteer his time and talents to run the revolution its clearly critical. There is a farm manager who, during most of the revolution is a distinct cause of George Washington, and then later in the 17 eighties, the farm manager is George Augustine washington and he into marrying Martha Washington sneeze. That tells you something about the closeness of the relationships. Its clear that while there in mount vernon with Martha Washington, she was a take charge woman. In terms of their interaction with slaves, theyre interacting with the cooks in the kitchen. The main tour serving and the house, and there are those that are spinning to produce yarn, she supervising what they were doing, martha loved gardens and having cut flowers. She liked having vegetables with what they would serve him on foreign, shes the one that is planning the menus. There are a lot of levels that they want to work with, so its a big operation and the center of their whole life. If you visit not run in todays, how close is it to recreation the life of george and Martha Washington . Nothing today can recreate the life of that time. Because, for one thing, they would have to take all the motorized vehicles away. They would have to have haystacks, they would have to have outdoor toilets. There was so much about the life that was so much more primitive than it is, but as close as you can, its the leader in the Historical Houses. George washington crops were what, and what kind of a businessman was he . Thats one of the aspects of his life that is least understood. For both of you that think of him as a reflexive conservative, look at his approach to agriculture. He had a great approach to it. He realized, for example, that this, which is not proven soil was being exploited by tobacco. It should be a crop of the past, and he experimented with different crops that would work best. The quick point i want to make is the apprenticeship that running meng front and offered, if there was an end for first lady in 1789, Martha Washingtons Prior Experience really qualified her uniquely. One of the things that she did, if you go there today, there were two wings added toward the revolution, which she oversaw construction. The dining room, a public space, and then there is a very private wing that contains their bedroom and his study. One of the jobs that she had they had 600 people a year, strangers, that showed up just because they want to see the most famous man on earth. They were all welcome, they were all greeted, most of them were fed. They were given a bit overnight, but even washington got sick of the demands, so he would disappear in the evening. He would go to a study and work, leaving martha to converse with the visitors. Martha washington and georgias bedroom was one of the other videos we chose because theres so much to see. Lets watch it. The room that we refer to and show off and the mansion as the washington that chamber is a room that was part of the south wing of the mansion here at about four and that was started in 1775, right before George Washington left to participate in the continent or congress, and then the revolutionary war. George washington does always refer to it as mrs. Washingtons chamber, and its clear that it was the center. Her nerve center for mount vernon, saw the kind of daily routine was that, but mrs. Washington got out, she typically spent time in that chamber, doing her hour of spiritual meditation. Perhaps later in the day and talking with the cooks and giving risks assignments, he also use that room for teaching, and sewing in the afternoon, so it wouldve been wonderful to be in that room. One of the most noticeable pieces are the bed in which George Washington died, and we also know that she had a personal role in acquiring that bed, which is a bit different, so it seems that shes getting a custom made bed for her quite tall husband. Another piece in the room that has a very close connection with Martha Washington is hard task, although very little of the correspondence between georgia and north of washington has survived because Martha Washington is destroyed their private correspondence, it was in that ask that two of their letters were found that they had slipped behind one of the drawers. That task is very special as the preserver of that little bit of personal correspondence. It is not just the place where she slept. I can just picture her sitting in her easy chair by the fire with her grandchildren around so we can really imagine how comfortable it would have been. George and Martha Washingtons bedroom. One thing special is our morning meditations. What we know about those times . She was in episcopalian, and then after the revolution she became a member of the american Episcopal Church. She had several bibles. She read the bible, she also read the book of common prayer. She had a lot of time spending other books about the episcopal point of view, and she was a deeply religious, but not judgmental woman. What about that video is important to tell people more of, the room together in the life that they had . Well, the fact that she burned off the correspondence in some ways is a metaphor. That is where they could be themselves. That is where they could say to each other what they did not say anywhere else, and i think one reason why they burn letters is because that was the unvarnished George Washington. It wasnt simply the equally intimate relationship that exists between them, she was the only person on earth to whom washington could confess his doubts, his fears, his opinions of his colleagues, you name it. But this is the interesting thing about, that they both had a sense that they were creating an image larger than his lifetime that they did not want to be spoiled by she was very careful, that is papers will always be kept in a big trunk. When they seemed they might be in danger, the trunk would be removed. Building his image, but a truthful image, having the letters showing him as a military man and political man were important. As far as she was concerned, their private life was just that ladies did not promenade about, letting their husbands level letters be read. Or when they complained, or whatever else stated. Those were private. Because was the content of the two letters, what were they hidden in that desk . They were fabulous. There were from him to her. It was an 18 1775. When they just accepted the Continental Army which does not exist yet, of a nation which does not exist yet, it is 1775, without asking her. Hes writing in saying, my dearest. I had to accept this. This is my honor. Please, my dear patsy. Do not be angry with me. He goes on and on why its important and why she needs to support him. Before he goes on to become the leader of the world, he makes time to go out and buy some of the nicest material so she can make dresses out of it. I dont think anyone reading those letters could subscribe to the still largely held view that the relationship was a business one. They were not young at this point. Lets go back to our viewers calls. Next up is gayle. Hi. I am i talking to somebody . You are live on television right now, do you have a question . Yes, please. My name is gayle and i have a couple questions. I have a nice book called mount foreign love story, by mary higgins clark. She says that no one ever called Martha Washington martha. She was always called patsy. Just as ladybird johnson was never called claudia. I was just wondering that i had just heard you mentioned that in his letters when he said in his letter that he did call her patsy. I also wanted to mention that in the story that im reading about martha and George Washington, the house mount vernon was originally the home of his half brother, George Washingtons half brother. That he lived in a smaller farm. I wonder if you are going to talk about his years as a survivor or about the years with martha as an adult. Thank you very much. How about the nickname patsy . Patsy, pat, or patty, was the nickname in those days, just as peg or peggy was a nickname for margaret. Nobody was named patricia, back then. The only path seas were martha s. It was simply the common name. And the smaller farm that she was referencing to. It is smaller because it was only 500 acres at that point. Washington was able to acquire more acreage with marthas money, but it was the farmhouse that his brother lived in, was the four room farmhouse that he then added a second story to. Cheri from arlington texas. Hello. Thank you for taking my call. I have a question regarding sally. If you could clarify the relationship george had with her. After the revolutionary war, it continued on. Was she aware of that relationship, and how did he deal with that . Was it something that just was not discuss . All right. Here is a classic example of where unfortunately, mrs. Washington did her cause no good by burning all of those letters. In the late 19 fifties, two letters were discovered, which then sort of reigning biographer thomas, made a great deal, perhaps exaggerated their significance. Sally fairfax was the wife of George William fairfax who is a neighbor and close friend. Some people describe him as washingtons best friend. He lived downriver from mount vernon. I think clearly, there was, i would use the word, infatuation. Sally was slightly older. She was very sophisticated to someone like george, who wanted, as a young man, very much to belong. He wanted to be part of the colonial era restock us aristocracy. He wanted to advance in the british military. Someone like sally who was even then, unattainable, nevertheless, held a special allure. Exactly what the nature of that relationship was is still being debated. You talk about George Washington and the integrity, i think it was something even then, i dont think the relationship would be on a kind of left sick young man, but i would like to hear your view. We wont disagree that there is no doubt, when those two letters surfaced that you cannot read them any other way but that he was a love sick puppy. They hardly make sense. When you read them sentence by sentence and try to punctuate them. He has gone sort of crazy. She has said something mean to him about not writing to her. And he has gone nuts. You see how much he cares about her and how infatuated he is. I dont think once i dont think it went any further than infatuation, because he did care too much about his friend. Once he met martha, and once they started to settle down, i think she had to have known. She was a smart woman. She could certainly, when he started talking about the eloquent neighbors, she had to have picked up a special tongue. They became actually best friends. This couple visited all the time. Sally fairfax and her husband were there. They were at her funeral because it was in the mid summer and she had to be buried. They were very close and then in 1773, as it is becoming clear that a revolution is coming about, the fairfax is go back to england, never to return. There is no continuing relationship beyond friendship. Mary has a quick question. Fairfax, virginia. Hi, mary. Her younger brother, fourth all of me, was a great great great uncle of mine. I was also born in virginia, and i had a couple of questions pertaining to marthas younger life. I always heard growing up, that she had met George Washington at poplar grove, which is the pant plantation property next door to the white house, and that he had been the guest of the chamberlains there for dinner, and not knowing that martha was invited as well, and that is where they met. The other question i have is, i understood that she attended somewhat the Episcopal Church there which was a very short distance from the white house. Thank you. To clarify, when we referenced the white house, it is not the white house that we know. The white house is the plantation on the river where daniel estes is the lord and master there. St. Peters was there church. There are different stories about how they meant. Some people have said that she and george had known each other for a long time. I dont think theres really much belief and that, because when he was out in the field fighting, and when she could have been at williamsburg, it did not amount to very much. The whole chamberlain story really comes from walls who likes to write about everything as a grand old fashion romance and the chamberlains themselves believed it. I do not believe it, but certainly there is some evidence for those who did. Time to move on to the revolutionary war, 1776, 1783. George washington president to service as the leader of the Continental Army. Martha washington leaves mount vernon to spend time with him. How frequently was she in the battlefield with him . She goes every winter to join him in the camps and make a home, not just for him, but for all the young officers who are on the staff and to encourage other officers to bring their wives and daughters to come and visit, and make it a social time. Out of the actual eight years of the revolution, she spends overall, five years. We have a video from one of those and campaigns, valley forge and the pennsylvania suburbs. Lets watch that now. When marcia Martha Washington came to valley forge on the 5th of february of 1778, she arrives here according to general nathanael green in the evening. It takes her ten days to travel here to valley forge from mount vernon. We know as well that the weather, the weather was not always so pleasant while she was traveling. It started out snowing, and she left from the mount vernon area, and then the winds picked up and it started to rain. It became very, very mighty. When she finally arrived here on february the 5th, it was actually quite pleasant and the weather was 35, but for a lot of the time she was traveling through mud in her carriage with her slaves and servants with her and this was a difficult journey. It is very interesting to look at the primary documentation which where the letters, journals and diaries to see what martha did do at valley forge. I think it is a little surprising and it really puts a different complexion on the entire valley fort encampment. Number one, was to be with general washington. They had a very nice relationship. If she was going to see him, she would have to come to him. We also know that when she comes through the valley forge she probably takes over the housekeeping duties which was very much what she was used to, of course, at mount vernon. We also know that she entertained. We know elizabeth drinker came to valley forge. She came on the 6th of april. She came with several of her friends. We know that mrs. Washington entertained and talked to visitors when they came to valley forge to when general washington could not do that. We also know, and this is when it starts to get very interesting. She served elegant dinners here at valley forge. Most people would never put the word elegant together with the word valley forge. This is probably where Martha Washington died, until the long hut for dining made, what she said made our conditions much more tolerable than they were at first. That was a quote for her. Was built right back near the kitchen. You can imagine Martha Washington here. Some of the officers. General washington, perhaps some of the people from the area who might have been passing through. Eating dinner here, which was near the afternoon, maybe two or 3 00. The food they eager was very different from what soldiers were eating. We know, for example, that there were 2000 acts brought into the valley forge. They ate during the encampment. A six month period for the valley forge encampment. We know they brought in 750 pounds of butter. We know that at least 1600 pounds view were brought into camp. These were some of the things that Martha Washington would be eating as she was dining with people. Conversations would be interesting to think about. What would Martha Washington and other people be talking about . We do not know of course, but when elizabeth drinker came from philadelphia, very likely the conversation at that point we have been, what were conditions like in philadelphia . The british were in philadelphia. General washington wouldve been interested in knowing what those conditions were at that time. That wouldve been part of the conversation. Listening to what was happening. Talking to ladies from philadelphia, which he really much very enjoyed. Washington went to several Worship Services at camp. We know that on may six theres a wonderful celebration called celebrating the french alliance. Martha washington is there and receives in the center of a large tent. Thousands of people, officers, wives, are entertained and serve refreshments with martha and general George Washington. Those were some of the things that martha was doing here at valley forge. And we are back, talking about Martha Washington. I have a tweet, here, from a viewer called jennifer. It is amazing how much time Martha Washington spent with her husband on the front lines it sounds a bit chin teal. 2500 soldiers died in that encampment during the winter. It was not viewed as jim teal by her contemporaries. One of the things that fostered an emotional bond between mrs. Washington and what would be the American People was the perception that she had sacrificed every bit as much as her husband during the war. This is another chapter in her training, in a sense, for being the first lady. For eight years, he was an executive. The closest thing that a country had, and she was the first lady of sorts. Whence touching story of course. They had one room on the second floor at valley forge. They had an hour every morning that was sacred. That one hour where they were absolutely not to be disturbed. Wouldnt you love to be a part of all of those conversations, because undoubtedly, again, washington unloaded a lot. He had so many stories. Which she did was not just entertaining the americans. She was entertaining officers from france, from germany. She was able to one french officer said it was so wonderful to be there with her, drinking tea, singing, and just chatting. At the end of the evening when we would go home, feeling better. Can you imagine feeling better at valley forge . She had charm beyond belief. It is also important to know that she had an official role acting as his assistant private to the secretary. That did not happen often. That was a rare occasion. But it gave her a glimpse of what his former job could have been. Like what else from those years, long years, or important for development as first lady. It sounds weird, but what is really important is the change in her sewing habits. All american women sowed. Well to do women sowed embroidery and tapestry and fancywork. When she was there, and the local ladies came to call, she was not doing fancy work. She had the knitting needles out and she was knitting socks for the soldiers. These were infantry men. They marched on those feet and got big holes in their socks. She must have knitted thousands of socks and encouraged others to as well. As well as raising the money to make linen shirts which served as you know uniform shirts. She really, physically, in terms of her work, an emotionally in terms of her leadership, helped support the troops themselves. A wonderful story where a group of women, of when they were going to be calling upon a generals lady, and expected this very grand figure. They were astonished but they found her knitting and wearing a speckled apron. She clearly was not someone to stand on her position on her title. Back to phone calls. Elizabeth is in washington, d. C. Hi. Thank you all for being here. The series was great. My question is about Martha Washingtons grandchildren. Could you talk a little bit about the two letters mentioned earlier were found by one of the granddaughters. Can you talk about her relationship with her grandmother . There were four children. Elijah, martha, known as patty, natalie, and walls. When the adoption happened, when the washingtons adopted to have the grandchildren, they took million wash, and the two other girls lived with their mother and stepfather and eventually lots of half brothers and sisters. The two elder girls spent a lot of time with the washingtons. They were very friendly with them but they were not very living with them. They were not the same as the it up to children. Patty got married very a. Apparently, four love. Her husband thomas peter was a well to do man in georgetown. They built a Beautiful House which is open to the public. It is an incredibly gorgeous place. In fact, after marthas death, she bought this desk. When she took it home, she found those wonderful letters. A reminder for Marcia Johnson and we said this a few times. Martha and washington outlived her four children. Pretty unthinkable for many people today, but not so uncommon during the period of our history. Next phone call, edward. Hi edward. You are on the air. Welcome. Fascinating program. Im originally from new windsor, new york. Where the general stayed at the house brick house, the same room with seven doors and one window. I was wondering if martha was there with him, and also, the last encampment when they offered him the king ship, could you please just expound on that please . Thank you. She was definitely at newark. She spent a lot of time there because the war had pretty much warned down. It was just a case of waiting for all the peace treaties to be ratified. As the latter part, was she . I dont think she was. I dont think at that the finding moment she was there for that. We have about 12 minutes left. 90 minutes have gone by so quickly. We started out talking about the important white house years. Our last segment will be life after the presidency, when washingtons has returned to mount vernon. Was this also precedent setting . What would post president look like . He became not only the first president but first ex president. She shared in. That they think about that from what you know . They were just glad to be home. Was there any consideration for the return . No. Indeed, washington had wanted very much to leave after his first term. Allow himself to be persuaded against his instincts that it was his patriotic duty. I think it is safe to say, martha was not happy. Martha was not particularly happy that he took first term. She recognized it was unavoidable. Her life had become caught up in that. Im not sure she would have divorced him, but the third term was not in occurrence for either one of them. They were in their mid sixties when they came back to mount vernon. You remind us the mid sixties in this time period was elderly. He twice had ailments that almost killed him during the time that he was president. She was terrified that the presidency would literally kill him. You think about every president we know, and you look at the pictures of when they start and eight years later. They look more than eight years older for sure. It is a very aging kind of a job. When you look at the political battles we are facing today over immigration and over the size of the federal. What was the intensity of the political battles of that time . Washingtons success as president depended on his persuading everyone that he was not a political partisan. He did not call it a federalist government. He called it a national government. He went out of his way to include all the sections of the country, and of course hamilton and jefferson have their fight in the cabinet, much to his displeasure. He kept those people around him long after they wanted to leave. He made that sacrifice. Someone who had betrayed the revolution. Martha had to suffer all of this in effect, vicariously. It has always been harder in some ways, for a first lady, or a president ial child, to put up with the criticism and for the president who accepted it as part of the chop. You told us she was not a political. She had to have been involved. She was. She took madison, jefferson into hatred. She hated Thomas Jefferson once he started his newspaper campaigns against washington, and the reason he brought washington into it was to defeat hamilton. He said, oh it is a shame how much the president suffers from these sorts of attacks, but it is necessary to go to that party so she never forgave him. Never. He never realized that she was smart enough to see what he was doing, but she thought he was horrible and the fact that he was elected president , was shocking. He made the mistake of underestimating Martha Washington. The flip side is that martha grew even closer personally, and finally politically with the adams. She was glad it was john adams and not jefferson that when the presidency. Next week, we will delve than for 90 minutes in the life of abigail adams. This helps to set the stage for that. How many years post presidency that they live at mount vernon . He lived two years, and then she lived two and a half beyond that. What was that timeline . Their last two years together as a couple . They had a great time. The house, again, was sort of broken down. Things in the field werent being done. Not the way he wanted them to be. Experimenting with 1 million crops, dealing with the grid smell, the silvery, all of the things that he pioneered with. She had to reorganize the housekeeping. What is so interesting, i think, is that mount vernon becomes the symbol of the nation after they retire. There is no white house, yet. That is not built. Washington, d. C. Is building up, but it does not really exist. It does not exist as a large place, but when foreigners and important visitors come, what do they want to see . There is no building worth seeing in d. C. They want to see mount vernon and they want to see washington. After washington dies, they want to see Martha Washington and talk to her about what it was like. They see her as the living remnant of that history. They continue to have their post until they died, both of them. Remember the dividing act that he took the last summer of his life when he sent out and wrote a will in the course of which he identified himself as George Washington is a citizen of the United States, not virginia. More importantly, he made provisions to free those slaves and he could upon the death of martha. That presumably is something that he had to have consulted her about, although i dont think we have any primary evidence to that. After George Washington died, martha left that bedroom we just showed you and moved to a garrett as it is called in the mansion. Let us see what that looks like today. Sure to washington does die suddenly. It must have been a great shock. Martha was very bereaved. She does retreat. She does not use their shared that table after that. She most of the bed chamber on the third floor. It is furnished now with the actual bed that we believe came to the washingtons in the 17 fifties and london. It is home with hanging based on a little preserved in valentine written by her granddaughter natalie. Valentine says this is fabric from the curtain that hung in the room in which mrs. Watching to invite here at mount vernon. That fabric and little scrap of valentine matches the description of the hangings that came with this bed that the George Washington in the 17 fifties. It points this very romantic tale that after George Washingtons death, Martha Washington moves upstairs and surrounds herself with things from the very earliest days of their marriage. It was really a place of refuge for her. It was a place where the house continued to be busy with servants, slaves, people visiting. It was a place she could really retreat to and be quiet and contemplate and be kind of removed from that hustle and bustle of daily life. When washington died, she said, it is over. My life is just waiting, now. She really and truly did not want to be in that room where they had been so happy. Did she involve herself . People wanted to come and see her. Did she stay involved in the politics of the day . She became, if anything, even more secluded, certainly emotionally secluded. Her devotion became perhaps even more central to her day. Every day she would walk down the path to the tomb, what is called the old tomb, which you can see today. She would pray. Basically, she was literally counting the days until she could be reunited with the love of her life, and of course, when you factor in the religious convictions, that is just another factor taken into account. A few minutes left. One final question from julie and alexandria, virginia. Hi julie. Hello. George washington and george mason were very good friends. George mason had two wives and she passed away. Then sarah. I was wondering what the relationship was between Martha Washington and either of george masons lives. They were friendly neighbors but as far as i know, they never became intimate friends. That friendship, sadly, was a political casualty. George mason and George Washington who had been friends and collaborative in the period leading up to the revolution, but after the constitutional convention, which of course washington sanctioned, and mason refused to sign, it really spelled an end to their friendship. On twitter, someone said george and Martha Washington, quite the power couple. As we close off here, bringing it to full circle. What are the important things for people to know about the influence of Martha Washington . It is important to know how smart and powerful she was. How dependent he was on her. His achievements were her chief mints. Having heard there with him made it much more possible. She defines influence in a way that perhaps contemporary americans might have difficulty understanding. The fact of the matter if she was the most influential person on the face of the earth with the president of the United States. This is Richard Smiths biography of George Washington. Patriarchs, Still Available if you would like to learn more. Weve been talking a lot about pat bradys book. Martha washington, with a striking portrait of the young martha on the cover. Widely available for people who would like to know more. Our partners is the White House Historical association for the series. They have been helping out with lots of documentary evidence and background material as we get ready for the series. I wanted to say thanks to them as we finish up this first program. We also have a group of academic advisers of which mr. Smith is one. It will see many of them as the program progresses and we thank them for their help and getting the series to air for us. We have lots of video. If you want to whet your appetite and want to learn more, go to cspan. Org, first ladies. Thank you for being with us tonight