During the war. Two soldiers decided to form the nra. One is to facilitate and grow long range rifle ranges and the other was to assist the state nascars in marksmanship. The nra initially, just so you know, was kind of working to get appropriations from the government and they started off with one organization. The they grew to 1700 by 1929. They also are, just so you know, built on there was an English National rifle association, and they were that was the predecessor in 1859. The franchise model, you could start and build a rifle club locally or statewide and then you were nrr affiliate. Would the early founders of the nra recognize the Organization Today in 2020 . Oh, not at all. The organization was not at all intended to be political in any way. I think you could even say as late as 19 mid 1960s that the heads of that organization could not see what the nra has become today. The nra, it became a Political Organization, not focussed solely on marksmanship. The second thing i would say is that in the 1950s and 1960s, the nra officials repeatedly said they did not want to be a partisan organization. That would be a disservice to the american people. As we now know theyre closely intertwined and boot strapped to the republican party. Realizing that states rights is one of the fundamental foundations of our country but it is a patchwork of laws. How does that affect the role of the nra . Well, depends on when youre talking about. Early on, the federal government was not involved in gun laws whatsoever. Gun laws were all at either a state or local level. Primarily local. State laws would cover dealers, maybe concealed carry. Miles per hour not shooting guns. But the local laws ghovrned all the things that were minor to the town. That continued to be the standard rule of thumb until the 1930s when the federal government wanted to get involved with firearms law but even then when the laws were passed, nra argued at that tile that state governments should be the ones controlling firearms or making those decisions. Which state or states passed the first laws and when . Oh. Thats a difficult question. If youre looking at gun laws, it goes back to the 18th century and the colonies actually, 17th century there were a couple of laws on the book. Its usually about gun or gun powder storage, what kind of weapons you could or could not have, how far you can fire away from a settled population, like you couldnt most laws said you couldnt fire or shoot a rifle within a quarter mile of the town. So those were the early gun laws. Those evolved mostly into carry laws and then it was around the mid to late 19th century things start to become the modern areas of law where you talk about firearms dealers, you know, minors, dangerous people, things of that nature that should not have guns. Thats really the modern beginning of gun control as we know it. Which goes directly from your book. Can you elaborate how it has evolved over the last 200plus years. Yeah. The original right isnt what we know it today. If you look at all the founding documents, if you look at everything, all of it tebds to the idea of the federalized militia debate which was the arguments between states rights and individuals well, the constitution in the states, who had the power of militia. George washington wanted for authority to control them during war. When it came to the states, no, we want full control. The concern of the constitution when it came in 1787 and ratified in 1789. The conception of liberty that the founders understood that in order to understand liberty, you needed to train and fight for that liberty. That was the understanding of a well regulated militia. That does not mean the same as an armed citizenry. It means well trained. Multiple militia commentators were talking about the two most important impacts training and how they moved their legs. It was there wasnt very good accuracy with those rifles. Its about turning and maneuvering the forces in a way that could effectuate it. The right to arms that we more or less talk about today. Those were really guide i by state Supreme Court decisions. Ever state Supreme Court was faced with issue where people would challenge a gun law or something would come up with criminal law. Slowly but surely, virtually every state law recognized some right to arms. That right was severely limited by what was called the state police power which gives the state the power to legislate in Health Safety and well fare. That means preventing people being shot by bullets. That continues to hold sway. The nra napds that kind of interception as well. In 1939, the are Supreme Court first weighs on the 2nd amendment in detail. They had talked about it in passing in two state Supreme Court decisions in the 19th century but nothing in depth. The United States military is different because they addressed more the part heart of the issue. Its cryptic. But courts issued that decision all intercepted as the 2nd amendment for groups but not individually. But legally speaking until district of columbia recognized the right to keep arms dissing stikt from the militia and that right extends to selfdefense. In the 1920s and 30s is when we saw the start of gun control legislation in this country . I think more modern, as you know today. The categories that are being regulated in the 1920s and thirlgts are no different but you see the types of laws and regulations become more comprehensive. Lets go back further. You said the formations, the genesis of the nra post civil war, how did they view the 2nd amendment then versus how we view it today. Are there differences . Yeah. I think when the nra is first established in 1871 its going to be a hard find to see them talking about the 2nded amendment. Its really at the turn of the century that they Start Talking about the 2nd amendment. Its always in the context of what is called the 1911 sul slap law which was new yorks law, the first law to allow someone to get a permit to purchase and own a hand gun. Before that, there were no such laws other than a brief chicago law, i believe chicago enacted their law in 1908 but it didnt stay on the books at for very long. New york was the center of the United States, in terms of population, new york city, i think the citys number 50 to a hundred. If you take the 50th to 100th city at that time and add them all up, they still didnt equal new york city. Thats how Central New York city was. They had a big fear. Nra is organized and chartered out of new york. Thats where most of the members are and where the headquarters is. Under the auspices of these weapons crossing borders. In the 20th century we had the mob violence and the gang violence, so how did all that affect the debate in this country . Oh, well, theres an interesting thing about the riots. I think everybody in the United States agree theres a problem. The only disagreement was more or less in terms of how do you solve that problem . There was a movement in the United States that more or less looked at the United States that the government was passing too many laws to catch the criminals that were law abiding citizens. That stepped to firearms. So when theyre debating that while everyone agrees that gangsters are a problem, including the nra, said maybe these are financed by gangsters. Then we, the law abiding citizens won be able to fight back. People supporting gun control, individuals more so than a movement. Their argument is the reverse of that. Theyre saying maybe its the gangsters that are financing the sportsmen in nra or financing the laws to stop the laws from being passed so they could continue on carrying guns and continuing crime. No one disagrees that gangs are the ep for the of where they came to the fore. When did the nra move to its origins to where we are today. What was the pivot point . Was it world war ii, was it postworld war ii . I would say it is 1932. 1932 is when the nra backed legislation known as the fire articles attack which was model state legislation that was supposed to be ep acted everywhere to make the laws uniform and in doing so that would protect sportsman. Say i was traveling the interstate from indiana to highway, if highway had stricter laws, i would not be harmed by going that state, necessarily, because the laws would be uniform. Their uniform firearms act was to popular that the nra convinced the new York Assembly to enact the legislation. But then governor roosevelt decided to veto the legislation when governor roosevelt vetoed the legislation, the nra really ramped up its efforts and started putting advertisements for recruitment aimed at fighting laws. Ten objectives and the objectives, the first three relate to fighting firearms legislation. I think thats the genesis of the nra but the nra for many let me caution and say in the 19 o 30s they knew who the nra was. They became very well aware what the nr warvegs was doing tchl nra was able to continue to do this for decades. Its not until j. F. K. Gets designated that the public gets introduced to the nra that weve come to understand today. How did a marine become a senior hitch for the air force . Well, went to the marine corps, it was stationed overseas. It was a security guard, protected paris and shapg high. Then i got the International Affairs bug and went to George Washington and George Washington is probably the most Political Organization in the our Political University in the country. Y got the law bug and one thing led to another that led me back to the air force. Im very fortunate to be serving with them, very lucky to served with a lot of these men and women. You mentioned your book arld in america a history of gun rights from cloeb al militias to concealed carry. If you could select one talking point, one takeaway from your book, whatst it . Welhat i hope people take aw, the gunning rights laws is not discussed as it was 200 years ago or even 50 years ago. Its evolved and changed up to the times. I hope the other take away is that the laws have dhiengd adapt to the environment, to gun violence, to changes in technology and whatnot and that if you have whatever your side is, if youre pro gun or pro gun control or youre just in the middle somewhere, the big takeaway, what i want you to take away from the book is that you have a conversation about it. Theres things for anybodys perspective that they may take in the book that you like. Theres different per suspect yifs as well. Patrick charles is joining us in new york part of the gathering of the american historical association. Thanks, steve. Tonight on American History tv, beginning at 8 00 eastern, a look at why june is willing lgbtq after a raid on a Greenwich Village raid on a gay club in new york city. Editor of the stone wall]iyky a document history joined us to mark the 50th anniversary of the uprising. Watch American History tv tonight and over the weekend on cspan cspan3. American history tv on cspan3, exploring events that tell the american story, every weekend. Coming up this weekend, saturday at 6 00 p. M. Eastern on the civil war, the 1863 richmond bread rye others where hundreds of poor and working class women protest inflation and the scarcity of food. And then four films from the 1940s and 50s proiflg industries negatively affected today by the coronavirus pandemic. At 8 00 p. M. Eastern on the presidency, the nixon administrations native american reforms, the restoration of indian lands and a new element of selfgovernment. Watch American History tv this weekend on cspan3. The m 4 sherman tank was widely used in world war ii because of its versatility, low production cost and reliability. Up next, the history of this tank. [ applause ] nick lasts moran enlisted in the Irish Defense reserve Defense Forces in 1997. He joined the United States army in 2000 and was