Everything im going to say about the relief efforts are in the context of the battle over intervention and antiintervention. I dont think America First has received the attention it deserves. Justice don has done some good work on it. It is usually written off as right wing isolationist organization, but it is a key factor in the Antiwar Movement, along with hoover, who did not belong to America First committee, the quakers, the pacifists, people who were upset about world war i. It is truly the Antiwar Movement to 19. It deserves more attention. Arthur slashing said the battle over intervention was the greatest split in American History except the runup to the american civil war. He said it was greater than the split during the war in vietnam and the anticommunist crusade in the 1950s. I wonder what he might say about that now. Let me go back and show you one more. This is one of the very strong antiwar pieces published during this time. Within this contest, since hoover is an anti interventionist hes going to battle with roosevelt over eight. It isnt within this larger context. I could not decide how much i wanted to talk about the relief effort specifically, or about posters in general. I have two national traveling shows out right now on american political posters. The one on the left, this is James Montgomery flag who did this poster. The head of the committee to defend america by aiding the allies is a republican. William white from imporia, kansas. Which i think many of you know, from the state of kansas. In any event, we will go back one more. It is interesting for the first time hoover and the communists were on the same side. They were anti interventionist during this periods. During the invasion of the soviet union in june, 1941. This is from chicago. This is a powerful poster there is a time when there are alliances, that are teasing a bit before hoover and the communist. We will go back to poland. I think Julian Bryant took some of the most powerful photographs, but we need to stop for a minute here, the war in poland started in september 1st 1939. The german army crashed across the border and made much faster progress than anyone had expected. Even though the polls are in the process of repeating, and they are trying to hold warsaw, most of the major journalists, military advisers they thought ok the germans will drive them back, they will treat across the river, be able to set themselves up, then the french in the british will attack in the west and the polls will hold out. That only lasted another two or three weeks. Maybe by september 17 it is all over for the poles. Julian brian happened to be in warsaw and took these photographs. Devastating. Two young girls, i think two of the most powerful pictures from world war ii. This one is called sisters. She does not understand because of her age why her sister wont answer her and deal with the fact her sister has been killed. The aide for poland started very quickly. I need to stop for a minute. My students sometimes would say i go on tangents, but i would say they were creative distractions in a way. We need to talk about this for a minute. Just after the war started, Franklin Roosevelt approached Herbert Hoover and suggested that he come to talk about a new agency that might be more like war food administrator in world war i, and give advice to the American Red Cross. There is a series of letters and exchanges between roosevelt and hoover, indirectly, through myron taylor and q norman davis, the head of the red cross for an 11 day period. I said in my first book that i thought hoover might have missed his chance to participate in the Roosevelt Administration and be useful in world war ii. But my later research, i think this never would have been a possibility. The animus that was felt between the two, that hoover had for the last three or four years, attack everything roosevelt. One of the people in the Roosevelt Administration said to the president when they were considering hoover the question is, whether you want him inside the tent pissing out. He was an empire builder and he would want things his own way. On the other hand, why would roosevelt ask him . Eleanor asked him to do it. Hoover said no. And that sort of ended that, but the middle of that process, norman davis walked into roosevelts bedroom and sat on the end of the bed, and said you think mr. Hoover will accept our proposal . Norman davis said, it is being discussed in theres a real possibility. Then he walked into roosevelts bedroom and sat down. He sat down at the end of his bed and said do not do it. So in fact it was the end of the possibilities to do that. But during that same period, the polish ambassador to the United States approached hoover on the 18th and said, what about some relief for poland . Im probably not going to get much from the Roosevelt Administration. The reason why is the Roosevelt Administration had decided just before the war broke out to support the neutrality laws that had been passed and to offer limited aid the, emergency aid. Hoover earlier in the summer had already talked about if the war would start there should be food through a blockade, there should be no aerial bombing of cities. What hoover ardor argued for was the moral conduction of war based on the edge the convention and the hague convention. Eventually thats going to dissipate quickly. Theres a standoff between the two because of that, it makes any attempts by whoever to deal with roosevelt or deal with churchill later, after may 10th, very difficult. Aid was possible to a high degree between september and churchills rise to power, because the chamber man government, even though they declared a blockade were willing to make blockade concessions in any event, the polish campaign cranks up quickly, the poster on the left is the first ones that were done in the late fall of 1939. The commission for polish relief, hoover decided to establish it and it was an operation by october 1939. But not in whats left of poland itself. The germans had petitioned poland this soviets have gotten half of it, big hunks of it have gone directly into germany. The government general that was created was almost impossible to get into. But the aid went to the polish refugees and polish army that went to romania and. Hungry as poland began to claps, hundreds of thousands of polls began to stream to the east, and then move down to the southeast corner of poland to get into either hungry or romania. They didnt anticipate that the soviets on september 17th would invade from the east. There is this trap as that is going on by the polls as they move down. About 70,000 polish soldiers managed to cross into romania along with the polish government. The romanians promise the polish government that they could have free passage to ships and go to france to be reconstituted, this gets more complicated. The french wanted to restructure the polish government. In france, they did. The old polish government, they were largely trapped in poland. But aid was easier to get those people because you could buy material inside the blockade. So, whoever did that. The by early november those 75,000 soldiers, along with about 50,000 refugees are all being fed. Unlike the free voice, whoever saved their lives. The answer is probably no, because most of them got out. But he did provide them with food and was shelter and extended their lives and made other choices even possible. It is a significant thing i think. Something that has been ignored is that the polish soldiers were technically in turned. The romanians were very sympathetic and looked the other way, people came up from yugoslavia that were polish and help them escaped as the romanians winked. They were then given free passage to trains across to italy by mussolini. Then they were reestablished the polish army in france. Hoover should get credit for a big part of that because he fed them in the process of them being the they were only there for six or seven weeks. But he should be given credit for having helped reestablish the polish army in france. Of course, the army wont be there for very long because france will fall and then they will move to scotland. But that aid is relatively easy. The avian hungry was in factor of also. Almost 50,000 polls went into hungary, the hungarians were empathetic to the polls. They were welcomed. The key question is, can you get aid to the government general of poland . This proves to be a terrible obstacle. In fact, there is no effective aid inside what is left of poland until february in march of 1940. Roosevelt opposed to it. The bulk of the American People are opposed to entering the war and getting involved in feeding. The reason why is, there be a great fear that it is the back door to war. Roosevelt asked for neutrality legislation to be revised in september of 1939. This cranks up the big fight between the interventionist and the non interventionist. Hoover cents a number of people from the American Friends Service committee, he had a great relationship with them, pointed out by george and barry and burnt. He sent teams to germany who asked for permission to visit the government general. One of the teams got permission, although they went with blinders because nobody had been in the government general and nobody knew what was going on. I dont think, i mean they could report back on the destruction of a taken place on the war and on the conditions that existed in warsaw, but they were not allowed to see a lot. They knew the german army was in fact killing civilians. But i dont think they knew at that time it was a mass murderers and they were already occurring. That they had a good sense that was what was going on. They came back and reported. The german red cross, some members were sympathetic because of the german feeding programs, and more trusting of the quakers, the nsc the which was a relief organization, they have members who are sympathetic. But because there were minders there, they were loath to speak out honestly and fearfully. It really is, the quakers that went in the government general it isnt really a trip into the garden of the beast. That may be the best way to put. That they were fearful. One of the quakers was injured in an Automobile Accident on the way to poland. In his diary, he says he was worried they be used for german propaganda and he was worried that they wouldnt be able to see what needs were. But in fact the germans were open to eight from america at that time because in 39 and 40, before the invasions that follow in the spring, they are looking for positive propaganda about their invasion of poland and the fact that they might be able to cut a deal with great britain. So, they are open to propaganda. Hoover and his people demanded, yes we want the polls to be fed, but you also have to feed the. Jews it took some time for that to be negotiated, but the germans agreed. For a long time i couldnt figure out why the germans would agree to do that. And then i shouldve figure this out souter. They were already in control of the government general, they could be used for propaganda purposes, at whatever time they wanted to. The jewish question was still open in germany in 1939. It is not until january 1942 that the final solution is agreed on in berlin. There is this moment in 1939, 1940, that there is that opportunity. After a series of difficult negotiations and with the british government, some food shipped through italy did arrive and the government general and 12 soup kitchens are opened up in warsaw and a dozen other countries in poland. These are some of the posters from that period. The poster on the right is done by one of my favorite poster makers. Those of you in world war i already know all his posters. He was an americanpolish immigrant after the turnofthecentury who did most of his work in masks and dance in theater, but he did a series of world war i posters and then again in world war ii, he did a series of posters. You can see his world war i influence from an artistic point of view, the women are all beautiful and suffering. It is the gibson girls recreated for world war ii. He did a dozen posters for polish relief. The commission for polish relief did not raise money directly from individuals. There are very few commission for polish relief posters. They worked through the polish agencies that already existed. One in chicago, one in new york. The one in chicago was the biggest. If you are in chicago, you should go to the polish museum of america. The first time i went there to research 20 years ago, i said, surely you have some posters, and surely you have documents from the polish relief effort in world war two. They said, we dont think so, but there are six files nobody has been into before. We went up there, it was a hot summer day, the director said, can we get these open . She said, yes, i want to know, too. Lets call a locksmith. So they cut the locks off and inside were roles of world war ii posters and the complete records of polish relief from world war ii. I thought, bingo. Some of these posters and imagesof them are from that trip and more recent trips. I put this one in too because i could not figure out i think george did a really good job in his freedom betrayed book about the relationship of hoover and roosevelt and that 20 day period in early september. Eleanor roosevelt in one of her comments and letters she wrote to a friend made it clear she was concerned about the children and originally, when she pushed fdr, was she concerned about the children, i understood that and thought it was just humanitarian. In fact, the Roosevelt Administration was already planning a crusade. A childrens crusade for children. It was to kick off the following spring, where they were going to ask gradeschool children throughout america to contribute their pennies based on their age. And be able to collect relief. Part of the problem that has not been explored before is that the fact Roosevelt Administration had another aid operation when they were dealing with hoover there are some really wonderful cans that have the same image on them. I saw one on ebay the other day for 560 five dollars. I bought two. No, these are two of the most famous posters. Most of you have not seen these before. They were put in the polish communities and they speak to polish historical events. On the left, almost no american besides a pole could read the iconography involved, but the minute any polish american looks at that poster, they know whats going on. This is a reference to the winged warriors of poland. They were actual parts of the polish army for a long, long time that really did use eagle feathers on their back. The horses did not have wings, but in 1683 at the battle of vienna, it was these Cavalry Units that charged the Ottoman Empire and crashed the center of the line. The winged horse men where the savior of poland. Every pole looks at this and knows how to read the iconography. The one on the right is by a jewish illumination artist. He did wonderful things during world war ii. He was polish jewish and he did this one on fighting the nazi dragon. I wish sometime i could maybe do a lecture on the artwork done by zeke during the war. This is one of the canteens or food stations that existed in poland. You can see it is similar to the things we have seen today. Large numbers of children were fed. Again, because it did not last very long, it is hard to know how many people might have been saved, but i think it is fair to say a large number of children over the winter beginning in spring of 1941 and through the summer im sorry, the spring of 1940 through the following summer received food they never would have received. They are sustained through the winter. These two posters, i tried very hard to find pictures of the posters in action. The relief groups were very proud of their posters. They were the face of the movement. The face of the attempt to raise money. The one on the left, again, means almost nothing to anybody that is not polish. This poster is probably from a little later. I should tell you one of the ways you can figure out the age of the posters, when they were made, is about, say, march, 1942, the National War Fund was off and running. Any poster for any relief group that was publishedfor the National War Fund by the individual agencies had the same desk had to say at the bottom. This one may have been covered up. This event, lots of poles fled into the soviet union. Most of you know, about 17,000 polish reserve officers were in fact captured in eastern poland and later murdered with their hands tied behind their back and shot in the head. About 75 to 100,000 poles were stuck inside the soviet union. In 1942 stalin said, you can go, but you have to walk out. In fact, they walked out of the soviet union into iran. Whats going on in world war ii is the poles is a worldwide diaspora. Poles that escape go to south america. Some groups were taken in by mexico. There was a plan to get as many jews out for a while. One that hoover thought about supporting. Madagascar would become a kind of jewish state. Part of the reason that was the case is that the ability to get into palestine was extremely limited. Starting in 1938, the zionists decided they need to get as many jewish poles out into what would be come israel as they could. They did get quite a few. We are talking thousands and thousands. But it was through italy on boats, that sort of thing. I should point out, the wonderful thing about history is how infinitely complicated it is. The terrorist organizations in palestine were largely trained by mussolini in italy and provided weapons by the italians. That makes perfect sense because the italians are obviously very antibritish. In any event, this is in chicago on the right. This is a damaged photograph. But i still love it. Why they are showing their poster and their tomato soup. I love these photographs. They have never been published before. These were polish soldiers that escaped from hungary and romania, were sent to canada, and trained as polish units in canada. They are on leave in chicago with polish girls. Polish american girls. They are all doing well. I love the picture on the left. Thats just a wonderful photograph. They are really getting to know each other. [ this reminds me of the Lauren Bacall truman but this is much earlier. I do think it is probably at the polish museum of america. Half of the polish museum of america is actually a bank. A lot of ethnic groups in america had insurance companies, savings companies, and part of the museum is actually originally one of those kinds of polish organizations. I think this is where that is going on. We need a little cheer occasionally. How about this. As you might know, not only is it difficult overseas, difficult with the blockade, with roosevelt, with chamberlain and churchill, difficult with the germans, it is also difficult amongst the relief organizations. They fought tenaciously. In the new york poles and chicago poles do not get along. One way to solve that was the fund. Notice where they are . New york. That meant the new york poles and the east coast poles who didnt like the chicago poles could raise money for polish relief and donated to the committee or the red cross through independent agencies. The Roosevelt Administration by 1942 has had it and says all the relief organizations, to be able to raise money, have to consolidate into one. Only one polish relief, one french relief, one norwegian relief. In early 1940 there were 561 polish relief organizations, all the way from big ones this happened in world war i as well. There were big ones and there were individual churches. They all registered with the state department and they all began to raise money. This is in new york, too. om american revolution. He and lafayette. I like this poster a lot. There were dances, raffles, everything you can imagine. I like this one, too. The idea of american relief. Again, it is from polonia. It is not from the commission for polish relief, but the money they raise is going to end up there. I love this poster, too. Help finland poster. What happens, of course, is hoover does poland, then on november 30, the russians invaded finland, and immediately, hoover decides to start finish relief. Then he is in contest with roosevelt again and the American Red Cross over relief for finland. He does extremely well. It gets into difficulties, but americans go head over heels for the finns. David and goliath contest. The war in poland is over. It is during the boer war, there is nothing going on besides the finish campaign from the fall of poland until the invasion in the spring. I would call this period waiting for hitler. You know what hitlers going to do after the fall of poland. I think the finnish relief effort galvanizes people and provides relief for relief, if i can make a bad pun. There are lots of people who volunteered to fight in finland and the word was if you missed the spanish civil war, this was your chance. Americans, hungarians, canadians, even some japanese, came to fight for the finns against the soviets. Look, here is the just incredible numbers of great photographs. The Finnish National archives all online released for public domain. These are the finnish children. Had been part of the soviet union. They are being evacuated. The finns are supposed to fold immediately and they dont. In december they destroy two soviet divisions. The 44th division. The photographs from that are incredible. Frozen pictures of soviet soldiers at the time. People draw the wrong conclusions immediately from the finnish campaign. They think if the finns are doing so well, the red army cant be much good. In fact, they call up reserve units in the leningrad area. Later when they use their firstline troops, they defeat the finns quickly. There are a lot of people drawing the wrong military conclusions, particularly hitler. Look. These two now are the basic image they used for finland. This is a hoover outfit. During this campaign, there was much more use of i guess the Finnish Relief Campaign published its own posters and went directly to the public to raise money. Hoover had nothing much to do with hollywood. Here you can see he is happy. Hoovers got a great smile on his face. Katharine hepburn really was a beautiful woman. Look at that. I know. These pictures are all for finnish relief. A lot of unions supported finnish relief. There is a coming together as previous speakers have talked about. A unity in the name of helping the suffering. I love this poster. The organization only lasted about 40 days. It is called fighting funds for finland. They try to get people to buy arms and ammunition for finland. You could buy one bullet or you could buy a tank or an airplane. However much you wanted to buy. Hoover was opposed to the armament sections of it. At the last minute, because it was hard to raise money for finland it was coming in in dimes and quarters, but not big contributions that he needed, he went ahead and made a deal with fighting funds for finland. The problem is, by march 30, 1945, its all over. Look, these are all from 420 lexington avenue. That is belgian american education. It is essentially a hoover building. You can see the ad here. Anti soviet the finnish map looks like it is someone crying out for help. That became very convenient for the poster makers at this point. Here are some other people. Laguardia. Henry van loon, obviously he is dutch. Not too long later in may of 1945, he helps hoover found the queen fund. Not surprisingly, some of the biggest contributions came from northern michigan. Here we get the david and goliath image. There is not many people who didnt play cards, dance, rollerskate, anything you can imagine, for the finns during the winter of 1939 and 1940. Popeye goes for finnish relief. A big smile on hoovers face. They ended up raising quite a bit of money and send it to finland. But i will tell you, roosevelt did some incredible deals that were illegal to help the finns because of real pressure to violate the neutrality laws. We actually gave some firstrun fighters, very small ones off the carrier at saratoga that were flown to iceland by canadians, then flown by swedes all the way to finland. Those aircraft arrived two days before the surrender to the soviets, and of course, june, 1941, after the invasion by the germans into russia, the finns side with the germans. Much of the military equipment ends up fighting on the german side against the soviets. They did another wonderful deal, too. The finns needed money in the worst way and we can only give agricultural loans the Roosevelt Administration set up a scheme where they could give the finns 10 million in agricultural surplus. The swedes bought it and sold on the london market and gave the finns the cash to buy arms. There are volunteers from this is a very famous danish photographer, and it is danish nurses on the way to finland to try to help. We will finish this quickly because we need time for questions, but here are some of the relief effort posters. This is the last one. I love this box, you run around on the street gathering all sorts of contributions for finland. Anyway, right after that, in the spring, the disaster will occur because norway is invaded and then on may 10, france, the low countries, they are quickly occupied. Hoover immediately goes to the aid of the belgians. This is 420 lexington avenue. Hoover continues his fight, but really the declaration, when the japanese attacked pearl harbor on december 7th and the germans declare war on us on december 11, the battle between intervention and noninterventionist comes to a crashing end. America first in its first incarnation dissolves itself. There is no possibility of a after that. Of a after that. I will say one quick thing because of the blockade. The british and roosevelt promised if there was starvation, they would lower the blockade. Hunger, ok. Starvation, no. In the winter of 1941, there were as many as 1000 greeks dying a day of they did lower the blockade for greece and swedish ships, 12 of them, provided food for greece under german occupation. The germans did not steal it. During all of world war ii. The interesting thing, of course, is they did not steal food for relief. They stole Everything Else in greece. They did not steal the food. Does that mean it was possible to feed the poles and western europeans throughout the war and not have a critical effect on the military campaigns . We dont know. We will probably never know. Now, a new topic. This is my paperback copy of hoover the fishing president , which has 14 new photographs that will be coming out in march. We changed the title. I dug the photograph out of a museum in northern california. On that note, i will end, i guess do any of the panelists have questions or any of the other panelists . We will start that way. Mary, i have a question for you. A professor published all those marvelous color photographs. The microphone . They are wonderful. That is something im really pleased about. I think whatever capital i had is now gone. I pushed hard for that. One of the reviewers for the book wrote a letter saying, you have to publish these in color. I had backing from other scholars. Then i applied for and won a grant to pay for it. I was able to say, it wont cost you any money. You got a milliondollar grant . Not that big. But that helped a lot. The images are not just to make you feel good. They really are history themselves. If they were not in color just a general question for all the panelists. The numbers you talked about in terms of people who were fed and the dire conditions in these different places at different times, why dont we know more about this . Why isnt it discussed more in teaching American History . I will just reiterate, hoovers reputation has a lot to do with it. We think of is it not on . Nowadays. Take it out of the stand. Now it is. Take it out of the stand. The end of my talk, has a lot to do with hoovers reputation, but there is something else. I said that someone referred to soviet russia as the borja of the 20th century. That person was a great norwegian explorer and humanitarian in 1922. It is a very young century with a lot of tumultuous events still to come. Civil war and so on. It gets obscured in part because of that as well. There is also the soviet mission and not wanting to remember that. Maybe my colleagues have something to say about hoover generally. In the case of germany, i showed really briefly the propaganda where they talk about how they are hungry, but they conveniently left out the massive amount of food aid the germans had received. That process is something being chosen, being selected, being fed, maybe a year at a time. I think the people who remembered i did not find diaries reflecting on itin the case of germany, it was not that popular. But you have the quakers as the face of the food aid. Yes. I think what bert said is really great about hoover and his popularity, but im hoping more people will know the story. Thats why we are here speaking. This is such an amazing moment in u. S. History, something people should be really proud of. As i mentioned in my lecture, the tendency of historians has been to talk about war and statecraft. It has only been the last decade there has been historiography looking at the humanitarian dimensions of world wars one and two. A number of historians have now discovered the topic, if you will. There is historiography after world war ii about how much suffering there was even beyond the formal termination of the war. Historians, there is a batch of them who have taken up this topic. My general impression is the americans dont know much about it because americans are not taught much history going that far back. Europeans at least, in my experience the europeans remember this. Much more. It was more recognition of hoover in belgium in terms of streets and plazas named for hoover than there is in the United States, at least for that purpose, though there are many Herbert Hoover schools in existence. The tendency of historians to put their focus elsewhere has contributed to a certain popular amnesia. I think that is starting to change. I would say that in 1939, 1940, you need to get far enough past the history of the event. History that is written after the events almost always has a political agenda. Interventionist America First noninterventionist fight, we are far enough away from it where the political fire is out of it. I dont think for contemporary figures, lets say even meachams biography of bush, which is good, or i have had discussions about coming biographies of obama, Newsweek Magazine asked me to review some posters put out by white nationalists and whether i thought they would go anywhere. I did not think they did, though they did rip off a lot of world war ii images. It was a big improvement in their graphics. I did not think they would have any appeal. During that discussion with a writer, we talked about, how long will it be before we get a really good solid obama biography . Our answer was probably 50 years. I would say this very quickly, this is slightly off the topic. I thought roosevelt and obama shared some very similar characteristics. They keep their cards close to their chest and they are very difficult to know. That is a major problem for historians. Roosevelt is still a mystery. Im picking up on what mary said. I know i get emails and we get elderly people here who were children in postworld war ii germany. Grandchildren, greatgrandchildren, of people hoover fed during the russian famine. There has been enough remembrance in those families that they write to say they just want to thank us. They want to express their thanks to Herbert Hoover. At least in the family level, the people he fed, there is that remembrance, but as world war ii has it clouded our understanding of the importance of world war i . Yes. The shadow of world war i hovers over world war ii in all of its decisions, but world war i did not cause world war ii. It is the failure of the politicians in the 1920s and 1930s to deal with problems created by world war i that caused world war ii. I also think we need to be careful about photography and careful about interviewing people. I have interviewed a lot of veterans. The difficulty is they have all hung out at clubs, they have all traded stories, they have already all kinds of books, and lots of that gets perfected to their memory. With photographs, you have to be careful of the frame. What is outside the frame and what was the intent . You can see the posters we showed today are clearly propaganda posters, propaganda photographs to elicit certain kinds of emotional responses from you to give money. Historians have to be careful about that sort of thing. This reminds me of one of my favorite quotations from the british historian of the age who said nothing can deceive like a document. Historians need to be aware of that. I guess i was wondering about a lot of the propaganda posters had women and children. I was wondering, were men obviously thats propaganda to get sympathetic response of the public, but what about men . That is a good question. They are going to get aid, but they are not tugging at your heartstrings. Always pathetic, beautiful women as images. How is it possible not to be empathetic to women and children . Thats usually what is used. You can see the kind of iconography and images they use to try to tie it to their traditions. You saw the posters where only someone of polish extraction could really read the iconography. Thats a kind of direct appeal. Like i mentioned, in leipzig, when you look at the households, data by family, it is the women who suffer the most. There is a timing to it. Then it is the children. In comparison, obviously the sample of men is smaller because a lot of them are fighting. The numbers that are actually suffering is so small. I dont know if that is everywhere, but that is definitely how it was in germany some of the ideas i used come from one of my mentors, who look at house of house allocation in the industrial revolution. When there are food shortages, what members of the family get the most . This is a hard question. Having data in a family is very rare. The evidence we have from world war i is that actually, yes, it pulled your heartstrings, but it was mothers who suffered the most, then children. There are a number of reasons for that. I have a question. It is probably a question you get all the time. Connecting history with current events, trying to discover the nexus between the two. I was very intrigued with the blockade of the First World War and it kind of draws me to modernday economic sanctions. It does not seem like it really worked before. I would love to hear your thoughts if there are Lessons Learned or are there benefits to our approach to economic sanctions now . Yes. We need to think carefully about who is impacted when we have an embargo. It is rarely the elites. It is rarely the people who are making the big decisions. What i was so excited about as part of my research is i can show who is being affected and how much. There is a time lag. Now if we think about blocades we need to think carefully about who we are actually impacting, even if the governments maybe another thing in terms of aid, i have been excited about this. I have been working on a paper with some colleagues in london. One is a statistician looking at yemen, thinking about how to get that through. It has been a big impact in terms of getting aid through. I think the more we can know about the more we think about who blockades impact, how much they impact society, yes, there are different constraints, there seems to be theres plenty of evidence that if you are at the top of your society, youre going to be hit less from blockades. We need to remind ourselves of that. Maybe this is very obvious, but i feel like this is history. That is why in the russian the sanctions that begun under obama they are begin under obama, they are careful to call them targeted sanctions. We have no problem with the innocence, or the russians it is those elites that we are top targeting. I am going to defend the blockades. We argue that britain is alone in june of 1939 after the in june of 1939 after the french surrender, but it is really not. It has its whole empire out there as well as canada, new zealand, south africa. At the same time, the british blockade was extremely effective. They dont have to put food on the list that can be blockaded. They did, but they dont have to do that. The blockade is not ships standing off the line as it was more in the past wars. They are really into preemptive buying and other forms of Economic Warfare to try to hurt the german war machine. If you can buy up all the Natural Resources in south america and you can use your navy to prevent them to get there, the british really thought in late 1939, the beginning of the war, they might actually be able to cripple nazi germany and win the war through the blockade. Because they have very few other weapons at their disposal, they made a major effort to do that. Over the long run, they were very successful during the war. We support the blockade even though it is controversial here. The majority of americans did. It was controversial all the way through the war as mass bombing was controversial all the way through the war. The evidence shows blockade and mass bombing were effective. Returning to world war i for a moment, before the armistice, hoover was quite perturbed by the blockade in world war i. He was in a position from his contact with German Authorities as part of Relief Administration to know that the germans were becoming utterly furious about this. I am not certain how much hoover new about the effects of the blockade at that time, im thinking 1915, 1916, but he understood the psychological impact on the german leaders. He tried at one point, he obviously did not succeed, to have kind of a quid pro quo. If the germans would promise not to shoot down or sink food ships, at least let the food go through, the british would lift the blockade to that extent. He did not succeed. It has led me to reflect later on, whether the the crb could have been founded a year later. The war was expected to be short war in 1940. That was an Ad Hoc Commission hoover undertook initially. Everything got bogged down in the trenches, as we know. Within a year or so, war fever and the hatred that was extending among the germans toward the british and vice versa, because it was total war, because the people behind the front were being affected and mobilized for war purposes, that psychology would have made it much more difficult for the british especially to accept hoovers intervention. Remember, both sides were trying, especially the british, to placate the americans. The americans were neutral and the source of food and money. The british had some reason to allow this, a political reason, if you will, to allow food relief to go through. That was a hole in their blockade. They realized it gave them political advantages. It may have given germans advantages. I do not think they use of the blockade as a weapon would have been possible to even have an exception to a little later on in the war as both sides got mobilized so totally and with the hatred that hoover saw. That is just an additional observation. I will make a quick comment an impasse suspect down. The central question then and now is, what are legitimate weapons of war against a tyrannical enemy. We have done this with torture. What is legitimate and what isnt . I do not think im cynical about this. I think there is always another war waiting for us somewhere in the future. Are we going to be prepared to fight it, and what is legitimate in terms of weapons of war . We have argued incessantly. I think it is an extraordinarily difficult question to answer. What is it legitimate to do to defeat a tyrannical enemy like nazi germany . Again, i am talking about world war one. Before the nazis to flip it on the other side, the good thing about blockades is that they are slowmoving and they allow governments time to reconsider their positions. In some ways, if you have a blockade that is slow enough, maybe people can change their minds. Like i mentioned, what i find is the military was always given deference, given food and civilians were not. Recognizing who blockades impact and showing that should guide that. I would like to thank tom and his staff and you folks for a very enjoyable conference today. It was just tremendous. Thank you very much. [laughter] [applause] my question is hypothetical, obviously. In modern times, what do you think or speculate Herbert Hoover would say, think, react, do, if anything about our situation on our southwest border . I am not taking that. [laughter] a couple points come to mind. The United States effectively stopped immigration during the Great Depression under hoover, the argument being that there were no jobs here for people. Hoover administration instructed consulates abroad to only allow visas for immigration purposes to people who could assure the american authorities that they would not become burdens on the state. In other words, welfare. If they didnt have a job in place, they would be denied. Immigration effectively ceased. There was some southern migration from the south, from mexico. It was curtailed, and in some places, not at the federal level, but more at the state level in california, maybe arizona, and texas, there were attempts to deport people who were here illegally and who were thought to be taking up jobs that americans desperately needed. There was a considerable crackdown on the southern border in the hoover administration. All that ive told you i think was basically driven by economic concerns, not a matter of whether ethnic groups could be assimilated, but more because the ethnic groups with such that it did not seem sensible to allow people to come in where they just might become unemployed and a burden on public support systems. What would he think today . I suspect hoover, being an american exceptionalist, would say borders need to be defended and properly maintained. At the same time, he was in favor of permitting refugees to come. He was a patron of the hungarion refuggein favor of the refugee patronage where Something Like 100,000 hungarians escaped from the uprising. Hoover was in favor of bringing in refugees, particularly political refuggees from communism, some of whom became associated with the Hoover Institution. A polish courier who got the message about what was happening in auschwitz out to the Roosevelt Administration, his papers are at the Hoover Institution, and he was acquainted with hoover and had a position at the Hoover Institution for a time. I want to put that into the equation. Hoover was not a xenophobe. At the same time, he saw a problem as president , and he is sometimes now criticized, especially by people who think it was an unfair effort to deport, i guess several hundred thousand people. The figures are in dispute. From the southwest, who were essentially of mexican origin, because of economic conditions. With that, we are at the end of our time. If we would all thank our panelists again. [applause] and i hope you will join us at the reception to talk some more with the panelists and take advantage of a drink and some food. Thank you for coming. Safe travels. Wednesday night on American History tv, the beginning at 8 pm eastern, a look at the Great Depression, founded in 1933 during the great compression the Tennessee Valley authorities mission was to address Environmental Energy and economical in the region suffering from floods, poverty and unemployment. On our National Program in the Tennessee Valley plea is a 1936 film created by the tv aide to show the construction of two projects, nor stem in tennis and, and wheeler dam in alabama. Both are still operational and on the National Register of historic places. Watch American History tv, wednesday night and over the weekend and season three. Merry elizabeth cox, documented the hunger between 1914 and 1924 in germany. This talk was from the day long conference at the Herbert Hoover president ial library. The conference explored hovers right reputation as a great humanitarian both world wars. This is my first hoover days, i am mary cox. I just published my first book ill do a little plug at the beginning this was released in the u. S. A few weeks ago and todays lecture ill be giving a lot of what is inside this book and theres a lot more thats in there. What im going to try to do is tell you a story about what it was like to be in germany as a civilian during the First World War and the years following. As part of that story, ill be discussing Herbert Hoover and some of the things he did to alleviate the suffrage in germany which had