Transcripts For CSPAN3 C-SPAN Cities Tour Visits Chapel Hill North Carolina 20240713

Here is a look at our recent visit to chapel hill, North Carolina. The cspan cities tour is exploring the american story. As we take book tv and American History tv on the road. With the support of our cable partners, we traveled to chapel hill, North Carolina. Over the next hour, we will go to notable locations, speak with experts about the citys history and talk with some history makers themselves. In a moment, the story of the university of North Carolinas planetarium and the role it played in early nasa missions. Following that, in ten minutes, a conversation with howard lee, chapel hills first africanamerican mayor and the first africanamerican mayor elected in a majority white southern city. Then in 30 minlutes, the histor of uncs basketball tour as we tour the Basketball Museum. We will speak with an author on the academic scandal that involved the universitys athletic department. We will end our special with local lawyer rufus edmonston talking about delivering a subpoena to president nixon and his other experiences as a deputy chief counsel on the Senate Watergate committee. We still talk about the role that we played on the front lines of the cold war, because the space race was a major, Major Initiative within the cold war. T minus 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Zero. Ignition. We are on the campus of the university of North Carolina at chapel hill. Im standing in front of the morehead building, home of the morehead planetarium which is now the morehead planetarium and science center. John morehead, iii, from a famous North Carolina family, his grandfather was governor of North Carolina. He attended carolina as an undergraduate student in chemistry. Made an accidental discovery in a Chemistry Lab as an undergraduate that led to the founding of Union Carbide and from that he became an extremely wealthy man. In the 30s when he conceived the idea what you did as a leading edge Science Education contribution would be building a planetarium. Whether when we opened, it was the first planetarium in the south. His contribution was significant. Were also the first planetarium anywhere in the world on a university campus. He visited other planetariums. He visited the leading lens manufacturer in the world. They arguably still are. In germany. He had a model two projector installed which was the very best in the world. His original vision was to be a place of education and enlightenment. Here is a photograph released by the soviets. This is a track of what you will see in the lower half of your television screen. Be sure that you watch very, very carefully. I see it. In the center of the screen in the lower third. In the late 1950s, the United States government in response to sputnik being launched and advancement of the soviet union and their technology, especially with rockets and space exploration, u. S. Government was felt threatened and like there needed to be a response. Nasa was formed in the late 50s. Shortly thereafter, announcement was made that we were going to eventually send humans into space. Our director at the time and the head of nasa at the time communicated about the possibility of this. The idea being that as the ancient mariners did, sailing the seas, using the stars as a way to navigate, these new pioneers could be able to use the stars just in case their Navigation Systems would fail. So from 1959 to 1975, morehead planetarium trained all the astronauts. I like to say that unc chapel hill is the only university in the country that can claim 62 astronauts as alumni. Because they came here for continuing education courses. The morehead team always used pretty primitive technology themselves throughout the training. We had the projector which was eventually replaced in 1969 with a model six which was a better projector. The philosophy of the training stayed the same. The main technology, if you want to call it that, that they used was a barbers chair. Then different wooden or cardboard hood attachments that they would attach to the chair to simulate whatever the capsule is. The idea was that whatever you could do to reorient the astronauts. A barbers chair seemed to work well. Could spin, it could rotate. You could pitch. All these things had to be simulated. That would be what the astronauts would experience when they were in space. Those 62 astronauts that came here for celestial Navigation Training needed to know the night sky better than anyone. They learned specific constellations, specific stars that they could relate to. They could figure out where they were in space in relation to where those constellations were. You have to remember that they had no horizon when they were in space to reference. Their vision was restricted through by the size of the windows. They may have only equipment failure, including the Navigation Systems he used his knowledge gained from morehead and training he received here to relocate and actually manually reenter earths atmosphere. Interestingly enough, that was the only one that of that mission, of that series of missions that was landed manually. It was the most accurate splashdown in the history of that series of missions. So it ended, 34 hours, 20 minutes, 31 seconds. The apololo 12 mission was impacted. There was it was struck by lightning on takeoff. What the hell was that . I lost a bunch of stuff. Roger. Throughout the Navigation Systems, the crew was able to use their knowledge of the stars, again, through the celestial Navigation Training here, to recalibrate their Navigation System that was thrown out from the lightning storm. They were able to reset pretty early in the mission. Then they were able to complete their mission. Apollo 13 is probably the most Famous Mission that did not land on the moon in the apollo series of missions. There was an explosion and a fire. We have a problem here. We have had a hardware restart. Houston, we have a problem. There was a debris field. The crew, they could not see where they were throughout the mission because of the debris cloud that surrounded the spacecraft. When they aborted the mission to land on the moon, they orbited the moon, heading back to earth right before they entered earths atmosphere, the debris field cleared. They were able to look out their windows to confirm that they had adjusted their Navigation Systems correctly. Again, they used their knowledge gained from morehead training to ensure they were on the right path and they made it home safely. Houston, we show you, it looks great. At morehead, we like to say we trained astronauts and we are training future astronauts. So we want every visitor here to see that the sky truly is not the sky is not even the limit. That there is an entire huge universe out there that the pioneers of tomorrow are looking at. The challenges of deep space but also the challenges here on earth. The things we are learning today, we have no idea how it will advance us. So what we want is for the people, especially the children that walk through the doors of morehead to know that whatever contribution that they can make is an important contribution. We have no idea where it will take us and how it will impact us. Howard lee was the first africanamerican elected mayor in a majority white southern city. Coming up, we sit down with mr. Lee to talk about serving as chapel hills mayor in the 1960s and 70s and the challenges he faced while in office. Mayor lee, why did you decide to run for mayor of chapel hill . Well, it was probably more of an accident than it was on purpose. I went to a friend of mine and asked him if he would consider running for mayor because i frankly didnt think a black person had any prayer of being elected mayor of chapel hill. He did not want to do that and couldnt persuade me to do it. What he did was to go to the local newspaper and tell them he had a scoop, which is that i planned to run for mayor. The newspaper, without even checking, printed that story as a front page headline. That, of course, split the chapel hill community. Following that, i had pressure on both sides. Pressure from one group thinking it was the most exciting thing since winning the ncaa championship. Another group thinking it would be the dumbest thing anybody could think of doing. Even in the black community, there was concern that if i were to run for mayor, it wouldnt do much of anything except exacerbate the race problem, which had been ugly through the years. I only ran, finally, because of one person who said to me, you shouldnt run for mayor because the time isnt right. I had been hearing that all my life, that as a black person living in the south and growing up, i was told the time wouldnt be right. I just decided, well, lets make it right. Thats when i declared i would run for mayor. Thats how it all started. I chose to run for mayor not necessarily to win, because i frankly still didnt think i had a prayer of winning. Then i won. From that point on, it was a whole different life for me. I remember turning to my wife at the time the victory was announced and said, okay, now that ive got it, what the heck am i going to do with it . But of it the beginning of a new life and certainly been a very good life for me. Where did you begin your life . Where did you grow up . I grew up in a little town southeast of atlanta. It was a town that was the site of a big rock quarry. They produced a lot of grain and rock that was shipped all over the world. That was the main source of jobs. It was actually a country town. My parents lived on a sha sharecroppers farm when i was born. I lived on that farm with my grandparents until i was 8 before moving more into the urban area of that section of the state. Grew up in segregated south. Were there moments where you realized that your life was apart from other peoples and that you were being separated from other folks . Yes, that had come a time when i realized that we just werent being treated fairly. Number one, the georgia klan was organized six miles in stone mountain, georgia, from where we lived. Every friday afternoon, the klan would hold a rally in a big field across from our house and burn a cross. That implanted in my mind the idea that this was a dangerous group for us, but we were also being intimidated and bullied and i didnt like that. But then i became very i had my first very best friend was a white boy. And he and i were inseparable until we reached the age of 15. When we reached the age of 15, his parents told him he could no longer be my friend and that he as a white boy was better than me and, therefore, he and i could no longer hang out together. He came to me and told me that story, which was amazing. And he was he felt horrible about it. But he had no basis of not obeying his parents. That split us up. We never had contact again. I became very angry as a result of that. Then engaged in my first protest on a saturday morning, i will never forget it, i was in the town and wanted to go in the bathroom. Went in what was at that time called a colored bathroom. It was a unisex bathroom. It was dirty with oil and grease and tires in the bathroom. I just refused to use it. I dont know why. But on that particular occasion, i just simply said, im not using it. So i went into the white mens bathroom. So i went into the white mens bathroom, used the white mens bathroom. And should have come out and gone on my way. But i decided since im here, i might as well check out the white womens bathroom. So i went in the white womens bathroom and i was discovered by the owner of the store. And when i came out, a group of men were waiting. They pushed me around and started beating me up. But the one thing that my dad had told me in the south as a black boy, you better learn how to run. On that case, it served me well because i was able to get a way and i could outrun these guys. And my whole life was reshaped from that one incident. Up to that point, my goal was to grow up, move to new york or anywhere outside the south. I just knew i didnt want to be in the south. But my life changed in such a way that after that experience i committed to myself that i would never, ever leave the south and i would stay and do whatever i could to make sure that i gained some ownership of my home area. And the second promise i made to myself is that i would never try to take the system headon again. I would be smart enough to go ahead and tackle the problems that i feel need to be dealt with without being confronting in the process of doing it. So that was the beginning, i think, of what ultimately transformed me into the person i became for the rest of my High School Years and then on through college and to this point. What brought you to chapel hill . Graduate school. When i finished my graduate work, duke offered me a job as a researcher with a Ford Foundation funded program. We had planned to go back to georgia. And they offered me more money than i ever dreamed. And we accepted i accepted the job. And came along with that job was a possibility of living in duke forest, which at that time was a very Prestigious Development around Duke University. But for some reason we decided we wanted to stay in chapel hill. How would you describe chapel hill at that time . Chapel hill was a schizophrenic community. It was schizophrenic because it had this liberal image. And thats what sucked us in, is and there were there was a strong progressive, liberal community in chapel hill that really were trying to break down the racial barriers. But then if one looked closer, it was also one of the most discriminatory communities in the area. Because there was no middleclass. All the blacks lived in the western section of chapel hill, and they would they were the ones who did most of the media work in chapel hill because the job inventory was not very broad. And most of the townspeople who were not University Connected were old southerners who really had anywhere from prejudicial attitudes to very strong prejudicial attitudes. My wife and i, upon moving to chapel hill, had difficulty buying a house, which we forced a realtor into selling. And after we moved in, we lived under the threat of death for the better part of a year for both ourselves and our children. So chapel hill was very segregated. So when we bought our house in colony woods, which was in the eastern part of chapel hill, that was the first time a black family had bought a house in outside the traditional black community. And it was very tenuous because black folk thought we felt we were too good to live in the black community. And they really didnt see that if we could open up opportunities and show that housing could be available to people regardless of ethnicity that it could make a difference in terms of how the community resolved many of its conflicts. Over time, it did come to that. And of Course University people were very proactive. Because a lot of these folk were coming here where they simply did not buy into the southern tradition of segregation. The restaurants had, by the time we got here, had started to break down the discriminatory barriers. And most of the demonstrations, were some of the nastiest demonstrations took place in chapel hill. On one occasion a group of kids were sitting in at a restaurant and a waitress goes to the bathroom, urinates in a cup and comes out and starts putting it on their heads. That got a lot of criticism in chapel hill as well as across the state of incoming in. North carolina. But gradually things started to improve, and they improved quickly. 1969, what is the reaction to you winning becoming mayor of chapel hill . Well, my first reaction was lying to my wife not thinking i was going to win. I did not write an acceptance peach. I did not plan a celebratory event. I was just sitting around Smoking Cigars and having fun and getting ready to go home and get back to my position at duke. But then i won. And i looked at my wife and said, oh, now that i got it, what the heck am a going to do with it . And it was such joy and such elation in chapel hill. Not just in chapel hill. Once the word got out that i was on the verge of winning, people started to come in from durham. Some folk from raleigh, greensboro. They sent students down to campaign in the campaign. And i was not here when unc won its first ncaa championship, but i was told that the crowds in the street were absolutely amazing. That was what happened the night of my election. And the reaction was mixed. There was some people, some newspapers printed stories that chapel hill elects a black power mayor. Some wrote that radical elected mayor of chapel hill. And so there were those responses. There were others that recognized the historical aspect of what had just occurred. I did not know until that night that there had never been a black mayor of a majority white municipality. We dont think ever, but certainly since reconstruction. And that started to make the headlines. But even more pleasant part is that even my hometown paper had a positive story. Atlanta journal had a positive story. And i was confident that my election certainly put a small fact that martin king had set the stage for this to happen. And i think if it had to happen chapel hill was the place it should happen. And im just obviously very delighted that i was the person who was in the middle of that. Cspan is in chapel hill, North Carolina where we are learning about the citys history. Up next, we take you to the citys north side neighborhood to the Jackson Center to learn more about the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s. We are in chapel hill, North Carolina, at the marion cheek Jackson Center. The marian cheek Jackson Center is a place where we preserve the history of the north side tin top communities. Behind me are photographs that took place here in chapel hill in the 60s. In the 1960s, chapel hill was segregated. People could not go into stores. The schools were segregated. The movie theaters. All things were segregated. This was a time when, again, black people had to create their own community. So in this particular community, they built their homes. They had stores. They had a business district. They had one school. They had their churches that everyone, you know, attended. It was a closeknit community. What got the ball rolling is after the greensboro sitin, there were a group of guys that got together and decided they needed to do something here in chapel hill to make change happen. Thats where the chapel hill nine started. What made this movement different from those that were going on in other places was that this was led by high school students. Students got together, talked about it, and then they began to plan for sitins and marches and things of that nature. During the movement, they were subjected to namecalling, to rock throwing, they were subjected to chemicals being poured on them, which would require hospitalization. Were going to take a look at the photo collection. These photos were taken by a photographer named jim wallace. And he was able to just take photographs during that movement and get into places where other people probably would not have been able to. And then he gave the photographs to the Jackson Center. This is one of my favorites because it has a wonderful love story behind it. This was taken on franklin street. They were sitting across an intersection. And as you can see the different signs they are holding up. The gentleman on the far left is bruce. And the lady on the far right is ruby. Of course at this time were talking about segregation where plaques and whites did not interact. But bruce, he was very much attracted to ruby. And so he told ruby that he wanted to date her. And of course ruby thought he was out of his mind. But he pursued her. And they begin dating. And of course the parents were not in favor of this interracial company. They thought trouble was going to follow it. But they continued to date one another. The parents realized that there was nothing they could do about it. And so bruce and ruby wound up getting married. It is just a wonderful love story that survived and came out of a movement. And sustained past the movement. And this photograph here is another special photograph. Because this just showed you how young some of the people were who were actually marching and part of the movement. And these two young this young girl and boy standing right here in the front, they are actually the younger sister and brother of ruby who was in the first photograph sitting across the intersection on franklin street. So when ruby would go out to be in the marchs and things her mother would tell them not to go out. Their mothers name was mama cat. She would always tell them not to go out, for ruby not to go. She said as soon as she would leave to go to work, ruby would go. Not only would ruby go, but she would take her younger brother and sister. This is another story how the youth were very much a part of the Civil Rights Movement. This photo were looking at now happened to take place on franklin street at colonial drugs. It was a group of students doing a sitin. And i remember when i was doing a workshop and this was a powerpoint presentation. And we were talking to a group of fourth graders. Of course they didnt know what a sitin was and what was happening. But as we were showing this one of the students, he gets up and said thats my grandmother. And so were all like where . Where . So he points to the young lady sitting shes like right next to the police officer. We were all, like, amazed. And he was so proud that day. The teach er was proud. We were all proud. And i always thought about his grandmother and what she was doing there at that moment. And i always say i bet she was never thinking about her grandson would be able to benefit from what she was doing then. And that her grandson would actually see a photograph of his grandmother making change happen here in chapel hill. For me, i think just to continue to remember, continue to tell the stories and not just push history under a rug or avoid talking about it. I believe we have to continue to talk about our past. Without the past, you have no future. So we have to remember our past. And if we dont want to repeat it, you know . We have to think about the things that have happened. And if we dont want those things to happen again, we have to talk about it, what can we do differently, what can we do better . Next, the cspan cities tour visits the Carolina Basketball Museum to learn about the history of tar hill basketball which dates back to 1910. So carolina basketball started in 1910. It won its First National championship in 1957 with undefeated 320 season. 5453, carolina wins the championship it has won seven National Championships, six ncaa championships, 18 acc championships, coaches of the year, olympians and a lot of great nba players have come out of the university of North Carolina. 52 former tar heels have been drafted in the first round of the nba. So theres great history on the college and professional level. We are standing in the carolina basketball hue seem adjacent to where they play their home games. The purpose is to tell the story of carolina basketball. Dean smith, our legendary coach for 36 years, he had donated his entire collection of basketball memorabilia, which was quite extensive, to the university. And this Basketball Museum is sort of the one place that houses all of that history. We decided we wanted to start off with how the uniform versus evolved through the years. One of the things that people get a kick out of when they see the museum is the number 10, the National Player of the year in 1957 when we won the National Championship. People are stunned to see that theres red in the carolina basketball jersey. Frank maguire was the coach at the time. Frank maguire was a fashion plate out of new york city. And he wanted to jazz up the uniforms a little bit. Put a little bit of a red trim in there. People were surprised because obviously through the years there isnt much red in the uniforms. Thats the color of one of our big rivals, nc state. Now they are blue and white, and thats it. But the blue and white came out of way back when. There were a couple literary societies in the 1800s. One color was white, and ones color was blue. Thats how the colors came to be light blue and white. North carolina basketball really took off in the 40s and 50s and has become one of the top programs in all of college sports, not just basketball. But carolina basketball is one of those marquis programs both in the acc and across the country. College basketball has really changed over the years. Probably the biggest change is with integration. Back in 1910, it was an all white team. The first black basketball player was Charlie Scott in 1966. Became a great player in the nba and also a halloffamer. We had tremendous former black players, michael jordan. A lot of success has come from black players. When the acc was formed in 1953, that set in motion what is now known as acc basketball. About four years into the acc, North Carolina went 320 undefeated national champions. Beat Wilt Chamberlain in triple overtime. And that game changed college sports. It changed sports here at the university of North Carolina. And it certainly changed basketball in the acc. When North Carolina won that National Championship game, there were 10,000 people at the airport when the team came back. It was the first televised game in the state of North Carolina, the National Championship game. For a lot of reasons, it really took off in the 50s with that National Championship team. Tommy kearns, some of the great tar heels from that team. And from that, you know, coach smith, dean smith, he began his program five years after that. And coach smith became the winningest coach in College Basketball history. And is a legend here in chapel hill. Dean smith was head basketball coach from 1961 to 1997. When he retired, he was the winningest coach in history. Won two National Championships. Olympics in 1976. More than that, he built a great program. The carolina way. Play hard, play smart, play together. All those who came after coach smith, they all lived by play hard, play smart, play together. Thats what coach smith lived by. You know, this sort of gretianstyle urn that is the sportsman of the year. It is one of the top awards in all of sports each year. The s. I. Sportsman of the year. Coach smith won that in 1997. There was a great story how we got that artifact for the museum. He had listed on the inventory of items that he was donating to the university. But we couldnt find it. So we looked everywhere. We looked in every closet in smith center, the basketball office, even at his house. And nobody could find it. Somebody who visited his house five years earlier and said, hey, i think i know where that is. So they went to the house, they looked on top in the dining room of a cabinet and there tucked in between two plants on the top of the cabinet in the house was one of the most prestigious awards that is given in sports each year. The other one thats very prominent is the president ial medal of freedom that president obama bestowed upon coach smith several years ago. Thats a photo of his family members, as well as coach guthridge and coach williams. They took pride in coach smith receiving that award. All basketball awards are great but the president ial medal of freedom to me is the most prestigious in the museum. Three players have their own cases here at the Basketball Museum. Phil ford, a great point guard in the 70s. Tyler hansbrough led us to a national khaoeup in 2009. And of course michael jordan, who many believe and we think here at the university of North Carolina is the greatest basketball player of all time. Michael was good enough to loan us several items from his collection. We also found great artifacts here in our own collection, our own files of letters that coach smith sent to michael of things he wanted him to work on, recruiting card that coach smith kept on every player that he ever recruited. One of the great things about the card. First of all, its mike, not michael. And second is magic jordan. Like magic johnson. Until people saw that card a lot of people didnt know in high school his nickname was magic jordan. On the other side of the case, mvp, allstar game, National Player awards he won here at North Carolina. One of the items that gets a lot of mention is recruiting letter that coach krzyzewski at duke sent michael. It is probably one of the most talked about items because of the Great Respect michael has for coach krzyzewski and the duke program has gone onto great heights as well. It is one of those pieces where people say why is there a letter from Duke University in the North Carolina Basketball Museum. It is a letter from coach k. To michael about his recruitment. We are very fortunate. Certainly one of the greatest players of all time. Not just as a haar hell but all of nba basketball history. Basketball is important not just at unc but in this state, certainly in your community and definitely here on campus here at unc. The acc has grown. It was called tobacco road because so many were based here in North Carolina. Basketball is very important. Its part of the culture. Its part of when you come to school at North Carolina, a lot of people that come here come because they want to be part of carolina basketball, mens basketball, womens basketball, carolina athletics in general. Its not the primary reason people come to the school. Basketball is part of that. Its part of the fabric of this community. Its part of the fabric of life in the acc. And people do take it seriously here at North Carolina. In 2012, the university of North Carolina found itself embroiled in a cheating scandal that rocked the department. We speak with author jay smith about his book cheated. Four seconds to play. Carolina is going to win its eighth in a row. And this one is even sweeter, baby because its over duke. I would say sports are very important to unc. Were probably like any other Big Time College Sport university. But maybe a little bit more so. Because weve had such Great Success with our athletics teams and theres an engaged tradition of winning and competing for championships in lots of different sports. Its an important part of the culture. For many years we had all on this campus i think imbibed the myth of dean smith as the kind of paragon of virtue. And as the master of doing athletics right. And i think we all convinced ourselves that a scandal of this kind could not happen at unc. The scandal here started in the summer of 2010 or maybe may of 2010. And it seemed at first that it was largely going to be confined to impermissible benefits. Because some of our star Football Players were kind of overheard talking about overheard on twitter that is talking about some benefits that they had been given. The impermissible benefit clause i suppose and the ncaa rule back, it specifies that athletes are not permitted to accept anything of value really related to their status as an athlete. That means, you know, a fan, booster, wouldbe agent, a coach is not permitted to give you anything of value beyond what is specified in the basically the ncaa constitution. You know, x number of dollars to eat per month and for your books, et cetera, et cetera. I go beyond that is impermissible and will get you in trouble with ncaa policemen. So ncaa opened an investigation of that, asked for unc to cooperate in that investigation. And by the end of the summer of 2010, it was clear there were also academic violations that were included in this initial investigation. I would say, though, it wasnt until the summer of 2011 that the scope of the ugliness really came to light. It reared its head. To see how things evidently were. And this was, in large part, because there was one player, one football player, who had been suspended from the team in the fall of 120, who was trying to get his eligibility back. And he was selling ncaa and unc to get his eligibility back on the grounds to the honor court to which some of his work refused, committed only minor violations in a paper he had written. Unfor him, however, in the course of filing this lawsuit he submitted lots of paperwork to the Durham County superior court, including the paper itself. And nc state fans, once the paper wound up online did their own investigation and found out it had been heavily plagiarized. And no one had noticed this before, which ugg the honor court, chancellor. What eventually came out in part because of that lawsuit and by dogged Investigative Reporter was that a system had been contrived in the africanamerican studies department by two people. It didnt involve everybody in the department. By two people. A system had been contrived over the years begins around 1990 or so that allowed the Administrative Assistant in the department to schedule courses that werent really courses. They would register for the course, wouldnt attend any classes, would have no contact with an instructor but would turn in a paper of some specified length, 10, 20 pages at the end of the semester. It was often plagiarized, we later learned. It was often very shoddy, two. But the Administrative Assistant gave a good grade for the paper and the class. And these were in effect gpaboosting classes. It took a long time to get to the bottom of it. By late 2014, thanks to the wayne stein report later that year, we realized thousands of students were involved in this scam. Hundreds of classes had been created. And hundreds more, independent studies that were basically fraudulent had also been scheduled in the 1990s and 2000s, up to 2009. The initial courses were almost exclusively for mens basketball, which was of course one of another of the more embarrassing aspects of the scandal because mens basketball is the crown jewel of unc athletics. And hardly Anyone Around here wanted much attention focused on that, as you can imagine. But by the end of the 1990s, all sports were involved. The revenue sports were overrepresented of the students registering. But there were also students from lacrosse and swimming and all the rest. So everybody was getting in on the scheme. And the university was willing to concede that this fraud had occurred. But for the longest time they wanted to deny athletics was in any way the driver of the scandal. The revenue sports bring in roughly 90 million a year at unc. Thats a lot of mope. And it pays of course for all the other sports. All thor sports are able to operate and operate at a high level thanks to all that revenue that football and mens basketball in particular bring in. So, yes, its the fatted calf. And this is one reason why unc and other bigtime institutions were always reluctant to look too closely whats going on over in athletics. You dont want to imperil that revenue stream. The only people, for example, who lost jobs as a result of the scandal and in 2015 were a handful of academic advisers in athlete eubgs. One untenured professor in the fm department. And the person who succeeded the initial Administrative Assistant. That person had very minimal involvement. But he was let go, too. So they made a show of letting some people go, ushering them out the door. But no one in highlevel position, no coach, no administrator, no one was called to account. And so to this day, we dont really have the full picture of who knew what and when, who acted for what reasons. And whether weve truly corrected the culture here. My co author and i happen to think athletes are mistreated, cheated, hence the name of the book. The book, which we initially started out as thinking really that it would be mainly about exposing corruption in the University Administration eventually turned into an advocacy project because we wanted to point out athletes are getting a raw deal in the system. And they were, in fact, the victims of what happened here at unc. They werent the perpetrators of fraud. They were the victims of it. The brute fact is that we are exploiting them and their labor and their bodies while theyre on our campus for four years. And if theyre not being paid while theyre here and they are not going to get handsome paydays later and were not educating them properly, i would say that is not a victimless crime. That is an exploitive system that universities should not be engaged in. At least not with a clean conscious, they shouldnt be. The universitys reaction was largely negative. The reaction to the book, to my working on the book, to my making lots of Public Comments about the scandal and so on. When the book was published for the first time in march 2015 it got absolutely no coverage here on campus. It was never mentioned in any university publication, the university gazette, for example, paid no attention to it. Which wasnt all that surprising given the battles a fought with the administrators through the years. What i would say what most surprised me about how the university chose to respond to or react to the book was what happened when i created a course, a new course for the history of bigtime College Athletics and the rights of athletes which i have now taught i think four times. But after the first two times i taught it, to make a long story short, administrators who hadnt had paid attention started to pay attention. And they made efforts to force my Department Chair to pull the course from our class roster. And i, indeed, had to delay teaching the course for one semester. And i only won my right to teach it in the semester i taught it by filing a faculty tkpraoef answer against the university, which i won and which got a lot of attention in the press and which put more pressure i think on our administrators. And they eventually relented. Are and i havent been bothered in the last year or so. And i hope now the course is inoculated and i wont face any more harassment over it. Many individuals are named in the book. And individual instances of wrongdoing are enumerated. But that is not what we want you to take away from this book. It is not what individuals did and how corrupt they may or may not have been. We want you focused on the system. How the system operates. How it forces good people to do bad things. Or at least to consider doing bad things. The pressures are so enormous in the Athletic Program that those who have a sympathy for athletes or who are just sports fans or who like to be helpful are going to be enticed to do shady things from time to time. Sometimes it can morph into fullscale fraud. Sit a system that requires repair. Thats probably the dominant message we would like people to from this point. My district is in the triangle area of North Carolina. I am in three counties. The county where i live is orange county, which has chapel hill and hillsboro. And airstrip of Durham County connecting to 80 in wade county. But district is best known as a diverse economic, the new south we like to say. By that we not only refer to shedding some of the negative aspects of our history but really charting a new course. The Research Triangle story is pretty familiar and pretty well internalized around here. Around 60 years ago a group of leaders in business and education and government had this vision that hes worn out fields out in the area between durham and raleigh might be a new source for street, especially for hightech enterprise, researchrelated enterprise. So the Research Triangle was born. And it wasnt an immediate success. Ibm, though, became the anchor tenant. And pretty soon it blossomed. Now it is a thriving region. And i would say thats what we are best known for. I think the biggest challenge we face is the challenge of managing growth and achieving fairness, equity, justice in our community. That sounds pretty lofty, but it takes very specific forms of especially in the housing area. Thats one reason i am so grad. Transportation and housing is my main legislative interest. Now i happen to be chairman of the Appropriations Committee on transportation and housing. And those are Important National issues. But they are both extremely important in this district. In transportation, we have the challenge of having diverse transportation, accessible, affordable, alternatives for people. And our region is strangely configured. It is a triangle region not just a central city with hubs and spokes. It is difficult to configuration a Transit System and we are working on regional rail. We have a wonderful airport. We have to keep that moving. It has some needs there. Transportation. But housing really is at the heart of those values of equity. People want to live where there is growth and economic activity. You cant just leave your housing scene to the marketplace. If you do, you will surely gentrify in the cities like raleigh and durham. You will move people farther and farther out. People who serve the community will no longer be able to afford to live in the community. There has to be a concerted effort with all levels of deposit, with healthy nonprofits, people who want to do something about making sure the community is inclusive. And i do think that starts with housing. And so my job in washington is not just to make sure theres federal support for Affordable Housing at various levels but also to work locally to make sure were pursuing those opportunities. Cspan is on the campus of unc chapel hill in North Carolina where were learning about the areas history. Unc chapel hill is the nations oldest Public University. Up next, we learn about its founding. Today we are on the campus of the university of North Carolina at chapel hill. Unc chapel hill is the First State University in the country. This is a contested claim that we argue with the university of georgia about. Both schools have a good claim to make. They received their charter in 1785. Uncs came a few years later. They had already graduated a couple of classes before the university of georgia. The university and the city were founded at the same time. So when this area was selected as the site of the university, there was no town or village here. There were a few neighboring farms. There was an anglican chapel tractor trailer site of the carolina inn. But there was no town to speak in. The day they laid the corner stone for the first building, they had an auction of town lots. So they understood that if the university was going to succeed, there needed to be a town around it to support it, to provide businesses, places for people to live. So really the town of chapel hill and the university were in essence born on the same day. The university was chartered in 1789. The ground first broke in 179 3. A year and a half later in 179 5 when it opened. Opening ceremony in january 1795. They had events on campus here. No students showed up. It took another few weeks before the First Student arrived. Henton james came from the coast of North Carolina. He was the entire student body for two weeks before more students drifted onto campus. It was for white men only for the first century. And then women after that. And africanamerican and other students of color until the 1950s. Enslaved people were part of the buildings. The South Building in construction and subsequent renovations. We also know that slavery played a role in the financing of the university. And this was due to the fact that the state legislature did not originally allot funding for the university. Instead, they provided funds through any unk4r5eu78d propec s properties, it would become the ownership of the university. The university would sell it and take the proceeds. This was usually in the form of land. But there are a number of cases where the university clearly inherited enslaved people and immediately sold to finance university. Slavery was an integral part of life in the town of chapel hill and at the university of North Carolina. And students and faculty were overwhelmingly, you know, on the side of the confederacy. Campus life tkwepbd elled. A lot of students left to enlist. The university stayed open but barely. Only at the end of the war did troops make it into the village of chapel hill. And the University Administrators and other state leaders managed to negotiate to prevent the university from being destroyed. But there were, you know, soldiers from many United States regiments housed on campus and in nearby towns. So things really began to change for the university and the town. In the 1880s and 1890s. A branch of railroad finally came to town. It was just west of chapel hill in carbreaux. A couple textile mills. And finally industry for the town and nearby communities began to develop outside the university. In 1890s, the university really began a drive toward becoming a modern research university. So this meant, you know, expanding enrollment, developingings a graduate school and making a more concerted effort to be involved in a positive way for life of the entire state of North Carolina. So the university really began to grow in prestige and National Reputation in the 1920s and 30s. It was embarking on a really ambitious building and growth campaign. Some accidents inspired by state universities in the midwest and other parts of the country. But the university really began to engage with not just the state of North Carolina but also the region. And those kind of academic programs attracted students from all over the country. And they also brought a lot of attention to University Faculty and, you know, began to develop this reputation as a regional leader certainly but also a National Leader in public education. It is different than how it was founded. Some of the buildings are still here. It is hard to imagine this rustic isolated place from 200 years ago and the bustling Public University it is now. So what unc now is a modern global Public University. It has deeply committed to the state of North Carolina. But also has ties to programs and Research Facilities all over the world. So its still located in the heart of the state. It is still at the center of public life in North Carolina. And i think thats something thats really important. What is a tar heel is a great question. It depends when historically youre asking. The meaning of the term has changed over time. Tar heel was used because North Carolina was a tar producing region. So eastern part of the state, especially during the, you know, era when a significant naval industry. All the pine trees in Eastern Carolina were used to produce tar. Inevitably people would end up with tar on the sole the of their feet as part of the process. I think it was a derogatory term used to make fun of poor, barefoot North Carolinaians. Today a tar heel is a couple of things. It is still the state nickname. It is the tar heel state. But more often than not its used to refer to People Associated with unc chapel hill, especially the athletic teams. They have been so successful in promoting the nickname, especially the sports teams. Most people think of tar heels, they think of this university. Up next, he recalls the day he served president Richard Nixon with a subpoena. When i subpoenaed the president 46 years ago on july the 23rd, it was the first time in the history of the country that a committee of the congress had ever issued a subpoena to a president. It was electrifying because washington was just filled with anticipation. They didnt know whether or not the president was going to be total totally indicted, what was going to happen to him. And then when those tapes were finally revealed, that was the way that they removed mr. Nixon from office voluntarily. He saw that his own words convicted him. What was your role during the watergate . I was named deputy chief counsel of the Senate Watergate committee. My job was sort of what i describe as the chief operating officer. I was there to sort of serve as the righthand man as you might call it, to see things worked very well, the train kept running. I would coordinate the hearings, what the who the witnesses would be, how they would be handled. It was a big job to run a committee with competing personalities, a lot of competing staff. And it was my job to just see that things worked well. And i wasnt that old. I was 31 years old, which nobody should have a job like that at 31 years old. And i said when i was elected attorney general at 32 that nobody should have a job like that at 32 years old. But it sort of worked out. So i i was an experienced person on capitol hill when watergate came along. I had been there almost 10 years. I began with senator irvin in 1964. So when the committee was set up, i knew the ropes on capitol hill. I knew the procedures. I knew what you needed to do. Just a simple thing like Getting Office space when you have a committee with over 100 Staff Members that we put together in almost a month. Can you imagine putting a staff of 100 people together in a short a time as a month . Well, the way the Watergate Committee was set up, it was the on the committee and the congress and the senate that was looking into watergate. The senator from montana knew you couldnt have fragments here and fragments there. So he put all the authority in the Senate Watergate committee. He made senator irvin the chair and senator baker of tennessee the cochair. And that is one of the marvelous things about watergate. The two of them worked together. In the beginning they said were going to make this thing work. We will not disagree about things in public. And they didnt. No hearing since watergate has ever succeeded like watergate did because you didnt have two compatible people that reached across and tried to make one another work. Thats the primary difference today. And when it was in the years of watergate, they worked together. And you dont find that now. I can hardly name you anything of major importance where the parties worked together. Can we talk about how it came about you subpoenaing the president . When did you when was it first decided that, okay, were going to send the subpoena to president nixon and how were you chosen to deliver it to him . Well, the senator met in his office in private with the Committee Members and said were going to ask the president if he will voluntarily turn over the tapes when they discover there is a taping system because of the revelation of alexander butterfield. And heres a little side story. We were there and the senator said to me, rufus, go get the president on the phone. Go pick up that loaf of bread. Go get the president on the phone. And so i went into the little answering room and got them on the phone. I knew the number down there to it. And i said, the president senator irvin and senator baker would like to speak to the president. And she said, well, hold on and ill be back with you. Well, youve got to remember all during that time president nixon had been saying the committee is out to get me, is out to get me. Well, unknown to me, the president gets on the line and says, senator irvin, this is Richard Nixon. He wasnt talking to senator irvin. He was talking to me. And i blurted out this unconsciously, mr. President , senator irvin wants to get you. I mean, on the phone. Im sorry, mr. President. On the phone. On the phone so we put the president on with senator irvin and senator baker. And they asked him they said they found under the separation of powers that he should honor the subpoena and turn over they hadnt talked about a subpoena at that time. That he should turn over the tapes voluntarily. And of course he said no. Thats when the committee voted they would have to subpoena the president. And then since there was no procedure for delivering subpoenas, because it had never been done before on the president , as chief operating officer of the Senate Watergate committee, i chose myself, if you want to know the exact truth. I chose myself to deliver the subpoena. And i thought, well, youve got to have a couple exciting things to do. And so i got in the back of the police car, went down pennsylvania avenue. And there must have been 200 news people following. And we got to the executive office building. And there was another crowd of reporters there. And we had already called to make arrangements for leonard garmin, mr. Nixons current counsel. He had a habit of having different counsels when they wouldnt obey what he said to do, he would fire them and get another one at a various times. And so mr. Garmin delivered it. And i did this little sneaky thing. I had one of those little baby constitutions about that size in the back of my pocket. And i whipped that boy out. And i said ive heard you all need one of these down here, too. Not only did i deliver a subpoena for the tapes, i delivered the constitution. Just a little impish thing for a barefoot boy in the mountains to do. It was fun. Could you actually explain what exactly is the impeachment process and do Many Americans really understand how the system works . 23no. When you say impeachment, most people thinks that includes removing the president. The impeachment process is sort of like a grand jury. When youre arrested for a crime you go in front of a grand jury to see if there is probable cause to arrest you and charge you with a crime. The impeachment prefers charges against the person who is being impeached. In this case it was president nixon, president clinton, and now will be president trump, if they follow through on it. Then its up to the senate entirely to take the charges, sitting like eye jury, a regular jury of your peers. Theyre not peers. Theyre resided over by the chief justice of the supreme court, to decide whether the charges, and they take those charges only. Not other charges. They dont make them up themselves. They take the charges that come over from the house of representatives and they decide like a jury whether or not theyre valid enough to remove a president. And the impeachment process is not the entire impeachment and removal. Thats what most people think when you say impeachment, that they mean thats part of removing the president , too. Impeachment is one step. Step one of making the charges. And theyre both very important and both very unique forms of government. Theres hardly anything like it anywhere else in the world. And the system did work. And it worked for this one basic reason. Senator irvin and senator baker said it would work. Now, im not sure were there yet in todays proceedings. The procedure is not there to do it yet because you saw the storming of the secret room the other day by members of the republican party. That is hardly working together. I dont think you can in any sense of the word say that is working together. Its not set up institutionally. You needed to have one now, senator burr of North Carolina is doing the hearing the right way. Hes conducting the hearings in a very nonpartisan way that everybody should be proud of. Both he and the senator from virginia have decided they were going to have nonpartisan hearings. And it can be done if you have people at the top agreeing to do it and sticking with it. But on the house side, i see nothing you acrimony. Sure, in watergate you had turmoil. You had people that didnt like what we were doing. We were receiving, by the way, over 40,000 pieces of mail a week. Thats astounding. And i said mail. Not email. Not texts. But, you know, horse and buggy mail. And it was very controversial. But at the same time it did not have on capitol hill the hatred that we have today. Thats another difference between now and the watergate era. In the nixon in the clinton impeachment, there was a lot of acrimony there. But, still, you had a system there that was not all bifurcated, trifurcated, if there is another one, quadfurcated. I dont know if thats a word or not. You had the Senate Judiciary. I would have been one committee in the senate if i were sitting it up. I would have had one committee in the house with input from the others. But now you seem to have a system thats going to funnel everything in in the end to Senate Judiciary committee, which i find it hard to believe that it can work that well because you have people that are turfing. Turfing is always tremendously volatile thing on capitol hill. Dont mess with my hearings. Its my hearing. Its my show. And you are getting a lot of shows on capitol hill today. The system is working with ragged edges. Give it a little time. Be patient. And try yourself not to be so partisan. Show a little empathy for the other side. Try to put yourself in their shoes, which is a pretty good guide for live totally if you can put yourself in somebody elses shoes. Its hard to do in this political hey maker. I call it a hey maker because everybody is so mad at one another. Be patient and try to let the system work. In the end, it will work. Tonight on American History tv, beginning at 8 00 eastern, from American History tvs lectures and history series, Wellesley College professor brenna greer debunks some of the myths around rosa parks and the bus boycott. Watch American History now and over the weekend on cspan3. American history tv on cspan3, exploring the people and the events that tell the american story every weekend. Coming up this weekend, saturday at noon eastern on the presidency. Former white house curator william all allman with Jacqueline Kennedy and the white house collections. And American Civil War interpretations charissa marken. And sunday at 4 00 p. M. Eastern, on real america, the 1936 film a National Program in the tennessee in the tennessee valley. About two massive dam projects. Exploring the american story. Watch American History tv this weekend on cspan3. The cspan cities tour travels the country exploring the american story. Since 2011, weve been to over 200 communities across the nation. As with Many Americans, our staff is staying close to home due to the coronavirus. Heres a look at our recent visit to amarillo, texas. The cspan cities tour is exploring the american story as