Through people, our president s. Brian dr. Holzer, im often i want to call you you even though youre not a doctor. Harold thank you for that mixed introduction. And thank you for having me on the show and welcome to Franklin Roosevelts home from which we are broadcasting tonight. Why . I think amity has it right. I also think that we were blessed to have a first president who was a National Hero before he became president , and was a touchstone and an icon and created a presidency that was centered on both personality and ideas, but in large measure, personality. Everyone since has been measured against george washington. And we look for extraordinary guidance, leadership, and inspiration from these, so far, men. Brian talk about this house in a second, but i want to ask amity, is there a house anywhere for Calvin Coolidge . Amity there is a house for Calvin Coolidge in Plymouth Notch, vermont. Thats near killington. Its near woodstock, vermont, if those are important points for you. And the interesting thing about coolidges house is he was sworn into the presidency there by his father by virtue of his father being a notary public. It couldnt be more american than that. When president harding died, the president had to be sworn in. And they did it right there by the lamp with the family bible. So, its a very compelling site. Brian has been there. I think harold has probably been there. We welcome all of you. Brian the fdr house. This is one of, i assume, many places dedicated. What is this house . Harold so, we are in the carvedout basement, not original to the house, of the townhouse that franklin d. Roosevelts mother built as a wedding present for franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt. Both families moved in in 1908. Fdr occupied, and his wife eleanor and their children occupied the east side of the house. Fdrs mother stayed in the west side of the house, and immediately opened the walls so that, as eleanor said, my motherinlaw was on our side of the house for the next 25 years, sometimes at the least expected moments. Well leave that to the imagination. But this was fdrs political base. It was also the home at which he recovered from polio in 1921. Fdrs mother wanted him to go to hyde park and sort of retire in luxury, or rustic luxury. Eleanor insisted that he stay here because here he could get his bearings back into society and government, politics. The house was had two elevators, which made fdr immediately mobile once he got into a wheelchair. Here he ran his campaigns for governor of new york. And here he conducted his campaign for the presidency in 1932. It was his base. And this house, i guess, most famously in terms of historical importance was the transition headquarters between november, 1932 and march, 1933, the four months interregnum then that separated elections and inaugurations. And upstairs a few floors, in fdrs modest library the parameters of the new deal were forged, argued and created, including, as i love to tell our audiences here, Social Security created in this very house. For which thank you, thank you, all. Brian are you on Social Security . Harold barely, but yes. Brian i would not ask amity that same question. If Calvin Coolidge was here and you could talk with him, based on the book that you wrote and the way you look at the world, what would you want to talk to him about . Amity well, he would want to talk to us about the National Debt. And what he would say is it may not seem as though it matters now, but it might one day, and what do you, plural, plan to do about that . Because coolidge did manage to his great feat was not a war. It was not a war victory, but it was a fiscal victory. He actually managed to cut the debt by one third, and whats more, he managed to cut the government, brian, so that after his 67 months in the presidency, the budget was actually lower than when he came in. And the audience always says, is that real, amity . Is that inflation . Did he restrict the growth of the budget . He actually cut the budget so that the number was lower, notwithstanding a population growth very healthy and Economic Growth of 4 . Its quite a feat to do that. And at times, it may seem it doesnt matter, but it can and matter very much, particularly when our currency for example is challenged. And we have a scholarship we give to honor Calvin Coolidge. And this year we had 3,400 candidates and each of them wrote an essay about what Calvin Coolidge would do about the debt. So the point being to acquaint young people with thought about the debt and the knowledge that perhaps they may shoulder some of the burden of the debt. Brian you have spent most of your life thinking and talking and writing about Abraham Lincoln. If he were around, what would you want to talk to him about . Harold well first of all, i would forgive him the National Debt that he racked up. Because he thought of the First Federal income tax, excluding state and local deductibility, i might add. Well, i think, again, im going to reverse the question and take amitys approach. What would he want to talk about if he spent a couple of days looking at the headlines and going online, assuming he got into that rather quickly . I think hed wonder why we havent settled some of the intractable divisiveness that he encountered and was forced to confront. He would wonder why, when he believed he set the country on a path to racial reconciliation, how that transformed into sectional reconciliation as the priority. What went wrong there in terms of speeding equal opportunity, which was one of the promises of the certainly the latter part of the civil war . I would ask him the questions ive been storing up are whats with you and your father, but thats just me trying to figure out what that relationship was all about. Why did you build, pay for a gravestone for your valet, but didnt listen to your stepmothers plea that you pay for a gravestone for your dad . There were some deepseated problems there that have never been explained. And i guess i would ask, so whats with you and emancipation . Did you always plan somehow to be the liberation president . Wasnt it always in the back of your mind, as someone who said i have always been antislavery, im naturally antislavery . What was the real end game here, and did the ends justify the means, i guess. Brian let me go back to what i asked you about the fdr house. How hard is it, and ill ask both of you, how hard is it to him maintain these institutions today . Harold well, were very lucky at roosevelt house. When Franklin Roosevelts mother died, he, i think, could not bring himself to return to this house. They were very, very close. And fdr put the house up for sale. Eleanor had become very close to the students at Hunter College. This house is part of Hunter College, which is a part of the City University system in new york. She hung out in the hunter library. She brought hunter girls here for lunch. She only could make grilled cheese, but she made grilled cheese. So, fdr put this house up for the staggering cost of 60,000. Eleanor prevailed upon Hunter College to make a bid for the house. Fdr lowered the price to 50,000, for a double townhouse on the Upper Eastside of manhattan. And it opened as a multifaith, interreligious, multiracial place for the female students of hunter to study, to socialize, to join clubs. And it was that for many years, until the house began to run down, inevitably, because it wasnt wellmaintained. And then under our Hunter College president jennifer raab, money was raised to rehabilitate the house. And now it functions as a Public Policy center for undergraduates and a center for policy discussion like we are attempting to have tonight. Brian attempting . Your question is. How about raising money in the name of Calvin Coolidge . And how do you maintain Plymouth Notch . Amity well, but thats very difficult, because president coolidge was ambivalent about taking government money, especially federal money. And you can read it right in his autobiography. So the question is, did he cut off his nose to despite his historical face, right . He didnt like that idea, when his nice friends got together, this was before the law that pays for the president ial libraries to be maintained. His nice friends got together, Clarence Barron of barrons, the magazine and so on and got some money together, coolidge didnt know quite what to do with it. He was very grateful to his beautiful wife, grace, for tolerating the presidency. And she was a professional lady. She was an instructor of the deaf and had trained at the Clarke School in northampton, massachusetts. And coolidge thought about it and he thought it might be vanity to have a president ial library with this money, and so he gave the money from his friends to the Clarke School for the deaf, so that his wife might have what she dreamed of, and also he thought he might go. He had a weak heart. And he wanted her to be professionally recognized and, of course, the most important lady in the town, which she was through the rest of her life and that benefited many, many generations of pupils and teachers at the school. However, what did it leave . It left plymouth, his birthplace in vermont, a little challenged. We have the Calvin Coolidge president ial foundation there. We dont take in my time there, im the chairman, we havent emphasized federal money. We try to raise money ourselves to honor the president s philosophy. And in addition, we now have coolidge house in washington. Place is expensive but place is worth it, because people come, and they can think differently about their subject, about a president if they know something about him. So for coolidge house in washington, which is by georgetown, were currently having a graphic novelist draw coolidges life so that all the children and adults who come to coolidge house can walk away with coolidges life in mind and some knowledge of it. In vermont, the state, our wonderful partner, that of the coolidge foundation, maintains the show, all of the objects, and does own many of them. And this summer, there is a show about Calvin Coolidge and grace coolidges pets. Numerous. There is an apocryphal statement but i will still attribute it to him that he said you really shouldnt be president if you dont understand about pets. Pets are very important, including rebecca the raccoon, who is featured in this show. I want to divert just for a moment, because i had the pleasure of interviewing both of these people on many occasions. But amity might remember an event we had some time ago when i you came in, and i want you to complete the story. This is a very painful thing for me to bring up, but i have to get it on the record. She came in to do the interview in a nicelooking red dress and she said to me, this is going to be a very important interview, because my grandmother watches this program. Then what happened, amity . Brian oh, then the tape did not tape. Amity brian put it in the can, but it was blank. And brian and the poor young man, who was a new hire, i believe. Brian he is still here. Amity he is still here. A tribute to mr. Lamb, who saw passed over that, were very upset and i had to come back another day and tape the whole story again. It was the tax book. It was a book about the tax code, too, so exciting. Brian in 30 years, its the only time its ever happened. But its very painful to remember it, but i wanted you to put it on the record. And she did come back. I mean, she had to come all the way back from new york down to washington. Now, mr. Holzer, i know that there have been some questions that ive asked you over the years that you blanch at. People dont see it off camera. I remember the one in particular when i asked you, we were in fort wayne and i asked you, do you know where fort wayne, indiana is . And you were unable to describe it. I just want to give you the same opportunity to take a shot if you do of something ive ever asked you in the past. Harold you didnt say you actually said, were here in fort wayne. Harold holzer, where is fort wayne in indiana . And i said, i dont know. You said, spoken like a true new yorker. Painful, painful. What have you said that has pained me or made me blanch, whatever that is . Brian you dont have to go beyond that. Harold the first time we were on air, 26 years ago, for some perverse reason, you asked me if my mother worked, and i said, no, shes a housewife. I know its a terrible thing to say. I was nervous. Id never been on cspan before. And she was really upset with me. And she lived until she was almost 100 and never let me forget that i said that. I blame you. But she liked you. She didnt like me that much but she liked you. Brian thats the first time ive ever heard that story. Harold can i tell one other story . Brian if you insist. Harold brian and i like to have dinner in washington, and brian is one of the most recognized people in washington, d. C. The problem is most people who recognize him think he is john glenn or john mccain. Ive been with him when people come up and say what you did for the Space Program is the best. The best of these happened at the mayflower hotel, after a dinner. Someone came up to brian and rushed out of the restaurant to the lobby and said, oh, mr. Lamb. I said, this is good, she knows it is brian lamb. Brian so far. Harold mr. Lamb, ive always wanted to meet you. I have to tell you, i can never go to sleep until i watch you on tv. Brian to tell you how bad it is, since i have been in new york, i was walking down the street yesterday, and a couple walked by me and as they walked by me, the woman said, that is john mccain. [laughter] brian back to president s. I really want to ask you this question, if you had to pick between fdr and lincoln, what would you do . You are working. Harold whos writing the check . They, obviously, belong in the top 3. Roosevelt dealt with two emergencies, in a state of diminished health, which i find extraordinary. Lincoln destroyed his own Health Working for four years on the existential crisis that challenged the country and determined whether it would survive. So, i would like to get them both in a room and talk to them both, but i dont choose. Im privileged to have created an association with lincoln and to have had this thrust on me unexpectedly four years ago and get to work in this inspiring place. Brian in this book that we are fortunate enough to be able to publish, there are 44 historians and thats the important work in the book published by Public Affairs and peter osnos and a company who have done all of our books over the years. I want to get back. We do have a survey in there and we dont need to go through the details now, but 27 is Calvin Coolidge. Why do you think why he is at 27, instead of either lincoln at one or fdr at three . Amity well, thank you for asking that. Of course, i think coolidge should be in the top 5, and i would defend that. President ial rankings a bit like any game updown. Its zerosum game. If someone goes up, someone must go down. And i would say, i think economics features here. And if you think Franklin Roosevelt was a wonderful economist, you think Calvin Coolidge was a poor economist. Its sort of like that. In a way, its impossible to i do but for most people i would say its impossible to like both president roosevelt, be a roosevelt person, either a tr person or an fdr person, and be a coolidge person. So, its binary like that. And it oughtnt be. Every president has his charms. But whats behind that, there was an economist at wake forest named whaples whaples, who had a look at what historians thought about president s, economic historians and also economists thought about president s. One of the things, he also looked at what they thought about economic events. And about half the economists thought roosevelt made things better in the Great Depression of the 1930s. And about half thought he made things worse, the new deal made things worse. If you surveyed historians, people with a phd in history, more or less most of them would say roosevelt made it better. So, you have a culture in history which tends to the progressive, and the historians have the pens, so thats just the way it goes. Youll notice Grover Cleveland didnt do so well, and hes doing worse and thats because history is moving leftward in our adulthood. So, i think thats why coolidge doesnt do so well. His econ is not known or understood. It doesnt fit in the modern framework, even which professional economists have, hes really a prewar economist. But he is a good economist and his prosperity was genuine. Harold could i just comment . Brian no. Harold im not going to challenge you. Im just going to say that the one added element that distinguishes lincoln, roosevelt, and others in the top group as ranked by the historians is communications ability. And i think the magic of roosevelt if you go past the economics is the extraordinary ability to connect with people, to reassure people in the depths of the depression that government was working, or trying. And even if the depression didnt technically end until world war ii production boomed, those radio addresses, the first of which he gave in this very house the day after the 1932 election i think fortified people. And lincolns extraordinary public letters which he wrote to individuals but made sure were published in newspapers gave people a sense of where he was thinking, in an age in which president s did not make speeches or tweet or do any of those things. Communications is key. Brian my guess is that amity shlaes will tell you that Calvin Coolidge started on radio and was very successful, but ill let her tell you. Amity can i . Brian its in the book, thats why i brought it in. Amity but you know what . I wasnt answering your question. I dont rank communicator up there in my 10, but coolidge was a very good communicator. How do we know that . In 1920 as you know, president harding passed away, so the Vice President , which was Calvin Coolidge, became president , but he had an election in 1924. He had to run himself. And in that election, that year, the progressives were doing very well, so there was a third party, la follette, which sort of ross perotwise was dividing things. And normally when that happens, in our experience, the democrats win, right . Coolidge took in that election because he was so popular an absolute majority, not a plurality, which means that is he beat the democrat and a very healthy Progressive Party at 16 or 17 combined. He was massively popular. The Republican Party had a heart attack when it realized he would not run in 1928. He could have. And he was on the radio. What are missing and they may yet be found, because so much is found nowadays, are recordings of coolidge on the radio. We dont seem to have those. We have the recordings of fdr. And that became national memory. Thats not to say coolidge was a loveydovey person when he entered the room. He was famously spare and restrained, but he was a recognizable type, especially to midwesterners, actually, a farmer type, which is to say, dry humor. Didnt say a lot, but much appreciated. So, i wouldnt say he was a poor communicator. He was a different kind of communicator. And im looking for those radio tapes. Theres only one or two i know in existence, one where he praises Charles Lindbergh when lindbergh returned. Coolidge loved aviation, particularly civil, because he thought that it was a way to preclude war, to build up build the world together through airplanes. And the other is a brilliant tax speech, which he made subsequent very close to the death of his son. Brian i want to dip into the book and quote gordon wood who was a wellknown historian brown university. And there are a lot of nuggets like this in this book. Thanks to the fabulous historians. He said this, and i want you both to deal with this. John adams was a realist. He did not believe all men were created equal, didnt believe in american exceptionalism. Harold he believed in english exceptionalism. That was one of his problems. I think he believed in a certain class system out of new england, but i think he bought into the founding principles. So with all due respect to gordon wood, i think, it may be a little bit of an oversimplification. Amity i thought that a little strong. Im also a fan of john quincy adams. Im wondering how he does here. Thats all ill just say about, brian. Brian a quote from bob merry who wrote a book on mckinley, he was maybe one of the finest human beings whos ever made it to the white house. Harold im very persuaded by a recent interview you did by him and with Richard Norton smith in which he who was featured in the book, of course, in which he made a very good case that mckinley deserves higher recognition. He was very popular, maybe the war he led was a little bit contrived, but he was humane. He was lovely toward his wife, who was ill, which counts for something. Oh, yes, that sounds right. Amity merrys book bob merrys book is an excellent book. I recommend it. And what he says the question, one of the Big Questions is the tariff. The republicans are the tariff party. The democrats are the income tax party, even before the income tax. And what he says is that merry merry says mckinley realized the uses of the tariff, but also the limits and damage of it, that he modernized as a man and a president before he was in office and in office. He was the first modern president. Its a beautiful portrait, the merry book. Brian and the John Seigenthaler profile of james k. Polk. Harold oh. Brian a onetermer, who died 3 months after his presidency. He quotes from the diary, an extensive diary, he says, this what james k. Polk said, i know im the hardest working man in america, and if i didnt have a cabinet, i can run the government without them. harold so i take brian does that give you a lead there . Amity harold no, im going to do what i want to do about polk, which is that Abraham Lincoln loathed james knox polk. He thought he was an adventurer, a warmonger, that he lied about the causes of the mexicanamerican war and that he took too much power upon himself in a noncrisis moment. So, i think, where is polk rated in the book . I dont know but probably below the fold, right . Brian i will get that. Go ahead, amity. Amity well, but there is something about that statement that gets at the presidency. Does the president run everything, or does he preside . And i think some of you may remember the saturday night live parody of president carter being called up by a lady from the post office i think somewhere saying, president carter, that is what is a controlfreak president. President carter, my franking machine model, so and so here in my town and your post office works not. And president carter says, oh, i was just speaking to my cabinet this morning about the qualities of your franking machine and if you push this button and reset, then your franking machine will work great, mrs. Jones, in the post office in kansas or somewhere. And that, how much does the president run everything is always the question. What i like about coolidge, i will say, is he delegated ferociously. He really didnt like the tax policy that Andrew Mellon planned because he thought it would raise too much money and congress would have money and the government would grow. Andrew mellon told him it was a good policy for Economic Growth, and he said, ok. That model is very rare nowadays. President , kind of interesting. Harold in the lincoln era, as strongly as he led the government, as identified as he became as the spokesperson for the effort to quell the rebellion and reunite the country, the cabinet was almost like the Israeli Cabinet is now. If lincoln had a policy decision like the emancipation proclamation, he would submit it to the cabinet. In the case of the first emancipation proclamation, the cabinet except for one member said this was not the right move in july of 1862, and lincoln acquiesced, tabled it. The next year, it got past the questions because he had fewer cabinet meetings. Cabinets and delegation were Serious Business until the very modern presidency. Brian in our book, the president s, David Stewart has a chapter on Andrew Johnson. But i want to go to another book he wrote, to use this statistic that i think is fascinating. The summer of 1787, a book about the constitutional convention. He has a tremendous number of numbers in there that may or may not interest you to define our country. To start with, and im sure both of you know this, in 1787, of the appointed men, 55 showed up, 39 signed, rhode island didnt participate. What does that say, if anything, of how we started . What would happen today if the same call went out and people were asked to participate . Harold i mean, it is tough to get around in those days. I think those numbers are pretty good considering the transportation, the unpleasantness of hanging out in philadelphia in the summer and all of that. Again, the caution in the book, and indeed when we do the survey, judging president s by the standards of their own time. 1787 to 1789 standards getting that kind of quorum is impressive. Amity considering the absence of air conditioning, claritin, antibiotics. Harold and they kept the windows closed. Amity nowadays everyone would be there every day, and he would be or she would be on her phone. [laughter] so it is a different kind of presence we have now. Ease getting there, trouble paying attention and really being there. Mindfulness. Brian more statistics from David Stewarts book. 29 of these people wore uniforms in the revolutionary war. 35 were lawyers, 13 involved in trade business, 12 owned plantations with slaves, and 24 owned considerable amounts of debt. How does that reflect what you think we are today . Harold model of america in 1787. The numbers sound right. I didnt know about the people with debt. Thats interesting. Starting off owing money, which the country did. Brian over here. Yes, sir . You said washington and lincoln always come up number one and number two. I went to Elementary School and walking, there was washington and there was lincoln. Will that continue . Sometimes [inaudible] do you think they will continue to be held in high esteem . Harold as long as i am a voter, i will try. [laughter] i think the pressure is clearly on the founding generation, the southern president s. Washington i think is only going to be sui generis, considered apart because he created the presidency, because he gave it up after two terms and refused to become the quasiking in america and set the precedent of peaceful transition. But for sure jefferson, madison are sinking, the slaveholders who seem unconscionable or hypocritical. Jacksons racism toward people of color and native peoples is coming under new scrutiny. That is healthy. Lincoln said things as you point out in the debates, said things in his presidency, when he was trying to assure himself that white Public Opinion would accept the emancipation proclamation, he renewed his calls for voluntary colonization to africa and the caribbean. Again, it is context. In lincolns last speech, he said i think the time has come to extend the right to vote to the colored man, especially the very intelligent and those who fought in the army. So by 2019 standards, it sounds like means testing, but by 1865 standards, lincoln is making a statement that was so shocking to one member of the audience, john wilkes booth, that he vowed on the spot to kill him rather than accept racial equality. Brian you have a question . I have been watching cspan for 35 years. I love all the programming. I cant help but ask, if you were to continue to update the book, as we go further in history, where would President Trump fit in with these same Leadership Qualities . Where would he fit in, in the top five, the bottom five, in the ranking . [laughter] harold first of all, you have to let him finish. President s are not judged in midstream in the historian survey. So he is ineligible and we are unprepared to answer. Time will tell. Communication, i would rate him as one of the greatest communicators in the presidency. Whatever the policies are. He knows how to do scrums with reporters. An example of a ratings factor. You never know. Brian let me ask amity, is this the most divided the country has ever been . Amity the civil war was the most divided this country has ever been. I think in our adulthood, in my adulthood, its the most divided school has ever been. That is, what happens to kids in school, what they learn in school, they very much disagree. I think maybe in the 1960s there were divisions about civil rights in schools, or divisions about saluting the flag in school. But now there are divisions about politics in school that are unusual for my adulthood, and i yours. Brian next question . I would like to know how you came to Calvin Coolidge as a topic for your book and the foundation . Amity thank you for that question. I wrote a history of the 1930s, the new deal, the depression. The results of my analysis showed that something broke in the 1930s. Something good was broken, and it didnt really get fixed. The things that were good that broke, that was the 1920s. So i worked backwards. Coolidge is kind of the prequel to forgotten man. The policies of coolidge were very valuable. Government smaller, lower taxes. Coolidge cut the marginal tax rate to 25 from a very high figure. We have not done that since president reagan, who admired president coolidge. But it was particularly his model of a restrained presidency, a nonegotistical presidency that drew me as well. I will say, because some of this is personal, if you devote several years to writing about someone, you need to have a reason. I had a boss named Robert Leroy Bartley at the wall street journal who coolidge resembled, i will put it that way. [laughter] the preincarnation of this taciturn, but very thoughtful editor bob bartley. I knew coolidge before i knew him, through someone much younger. And i would guess that the midwestern agricultural tight. Coolidge was from vermont, but vermont was the midwest. Which is to say, the man of few words and many thoughts. Brian questions . The gentleman over here . Thank you this presentation. I wonder whether legacy could be one of the 10 criteria, the overall impact of the president on the future . Wilson, notwithstanding the lofty rhetoric and initial legislative success, left a legacy of racism. His inability to get the league of nations passed, the disaster of versailles. Harold i think that the legacy question is dealt with in the various categories. A Perfect Moment to talk about fdr. The man who lived in this house, Franklin Roosevelt, left to work for Woodrow Wilson as assistant secretary. Eleanor became a red cross nurse. Deeply admired wilson and deeply admired theodore roosevelt, as opposite as they were in their approach to the presidency and ability to communicate. Roosevelt did find great things about wilson, found him deeply inspiring. I absolutely agree about the racism. And his relations with the press. The racism is deeply troubling, deeply ingrained. He was a southern man, and remembered hearing his parents talking about lincolns election. It was deeply ingrained. He was the last civil war southerner to occupy the white house. Brian amity, legacy . Amity legacy shifts. Someone might be enormously popular when they leave office, and 10 years later we say who was that . Who was eisenhower, until we got a few good biographies . I want to mention evan thomass book. Legacy is implicit in the other weightings. Brian question . Another unexpected president , harry truman. [inaudible] amity currently i am writing a book with an unexpected hero, a flawed hero. Walter luther, the united auto workers. Not much is known. We used to hear in the news, every single night. What i look at in Great Society, what happened to organized labor, which was 25 of our workforce . I am interested in truman, but because he objected the tafthartley act, which weakened another act. I did like tafthartley, but i saw how he agonized over it, and have Great Respect for the prolabor view, too, the union view. As part of United States history, as part of who we are. I like truman better than i should, for his earnest, serious, uncynical attitude toward the presidency. Amity how an antisemitic guy pulled the lever on establishing statehood for is real. I would turn one thing about truman on its ear. Abraham lincolns greatest mistake was encouraging Andrew Johnson as his second Vice President. He should have thought more closely about the issue of succession and legacy. He chose the only southern senator who did not defect to the confederacy, even though he was a democrat and not a republican, and even though he was deeply racist. I dont think he spent any time talking to him. Magically, roosevelt chose harry truman. We know his hand was on that, because he made the selection. I dont know why he saw possibility in truman. He certainly knew of his own frailty, and he didnt expect to live through his third term, certainly didnt expect to survive his fourth, and thought he would resign if the war ended. He wanted to see allied victory through. Its a remarkable thing that he found this amazing man who seemed greater than the sum of his parts. Brian we have about eight minutes left. A couple questions in the back. Yes, sir . I wonder if you could comment on the suggestion that those who emphasize [inaudible] insofar as that masking, subterfuge impacts ratings. Thinking particularly of dwight eisenhower. Now apparently we see he was much smarter than a lot of people thought he was. Those who operate in a fog, but nonetheless know where they are going. Amity it sounds a little sinister, the way you put it. But a good leader may want to retreat so others may play their roles. That happens frequently in the presidency, that the president is behind it all. Im very fresh on Lyndon Johnson because of the Great Society book. He is a president who does not hide his leadership very well. [laughter] harold i first became interested in government when kennedy ran for president. To an 11yearold, eisenhower seemed a doddering person who was no longer a strong leader. But 75 years ago, this june 2019, he led the Largest Military operation in the history of the world, at dday. I think historians love him because he said to beware of the militaryindustrial complex. That is the most reputation enhancing factor about eisenhower. Lincoln said at one point, disingenuously i think, i do not claim to have controlled events, events have plainly controlled me. He said that as a way of garnering support for emancipation as a policy that was sort of an addon to the original rationale for prosecuting the civil war, simply to restore the union. Brian as we said earlier, James Buchanan has been listed as the worst president in history in almost all surveys for a long time. Robert strauss, the gentleman over here, i want to get a mic over here so we can ask how offended he is by the fact buchanan always comes in last. Offended . No. Everyone has to give an elevator pitch, so i went to my agent, and he said, half of america things barack obama is the worst president , half of them think george w. Bush is the worst president , but neither of them started the civil war. It seemed at every turn, every fork in the road, he took the wrong one. An amazing proclivity for making bad decisions. But what he was also was the most experienced guy to run for president. He had been in the state legislature, member of congress in both houses, ambassador to russia, ambassador to england, secretary of state. How could you get a guy that is qualified for everything . He was a disaster. Brian thanks for coming tonight. We have time for at least one more question. This gentleman on the aisle . Good evening. I was very surprised jfk was in the top 10. He inspired me, lots of people, but he was president for a thousand days. What did he accomplish, to make him one of the greatest . Brian the political scientist survey that just came out has him at 16, so who knows where this will all wind up. Harold the impact of john kennedy was generational. He was a master of television, which eisenhower had not been, truman had not been. Like fdr, like lincoln, like trump, he was a master of communicating directly with the people. He inspired people to public service. The two elements i think that enhance his reputation are communication ability, the wit and warmth and humor, selfdeprecating also, and of course the tragedy of his passing. President s who die in office, who are taken from us violently, hold a special place in the national memory. Not only for what they accomplished. Amity i would just add, he was a president of the center. Jfk was not a socialist. Hes liked by both parties. Theres a wonderful book called jfk, a conservative, looking at his econ policies. So he fit right down the center for many americans, like a bowling ball. [laughter] brian final question. You mentioned your book on lbj and the Great Society. When is that on the market . Amity november. Brian mr. Holzer, your next book . 54 . Harold 55. Amity 10 times as many books. Harold im not at prolific as you make me out to be. My next book is president of the press from the Founding Fathers to fake news. It explores all the president s and their evolving and contentious relationships with journalists. Brian when does that come out . Harold next spring. Brian i want to thank our guests this evening, for providing us the opportunity to be here, and to our audience for joining us and asking such good questions. Amity shlaes, thank you very much. And that is it. [applause] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] all q a programs are available on our website, or as a podcast at www. Cspan. Org. Sunday at 3 00, a study session for the advanced placement u. S. History exam. Jason stacy and matthew ellington, coauthors of fabric of a nation, a brief history with skills and sources for the ap course, explain how this yearss exam is structured differently, provides strategies and demonstrate how to analyze historical documents. Every saturday night, American History tv takes you to College Classrooms around the country for lectures in history. Why do you all know who Lizzie Borden is . And raise your hand if you had ever heard of the murder trial before this class. This transformation that took place in the minds of the american people. We will talk about both of sides of the story, the tools and techniques of slaveowner power. We will talk about the tools and techniques of power that were practiced by enslaved people. Watch history professors leave ashley discussions history professors lead discussions. Every saturday at 8 00 eastern on American History tv. It is available as a podcast, find it where you listen to podcasts. Tonight on real america, to mark the 75th anniversary of victory in your update, we bring you episodes of the 1965 series army in action covering u. S. Involvement in world war ii from the pearl harbor attack through the surrender of japan. Here is a preview. Of april, 1945, the United States 10th army invaded okinawa. Month,11th of the same the Second Armored Division of milesnth army reached 63 from berlin. Captured on the 12th of april, president Eleanor Roosevelt delano roosevelt, he had lived to see the triumphant advances but fate denied him the satisfaction that final victory would bring. Less than a month after president roosevelts death, germany surrendered. Dead by his own hand. Only a few days before, mussolini had been killed. General eisenhower returned in triumph. But in the pacific, a war was still going on, a bitterly fought war with the end not yet in sight. Okinawa was a bloody Battle Ground at the 10th army was finding out. [explosions] it took us 82 days of continuous fighting to take a look in our to take okinawa. , because the attacks on our navy took a heavy , because the attacks on our navy took a heavy toll. Learn more about u. S. Involvement in world war ii tonight at 10 00 p. M. Eastern, 7 00 pacific here on American History tv. The National Council for History Education moved their Conference Online because of the coronavirus outbreak. The session up next features Adam Hochschild on domestic unrest in the u. S. During and after world war i, including antigerman sentiment, race riots, and arrests of suspected communists. Hes the author of to end all wars a story of loyalty and rebellion, 19141918. Ms. Leatherman ok, well it is 11 00, so i think we know you are excited to be here and to hear Adam Hochschild tell us about the legacy of the First World War today. Thank you for being with us over these past three days. It has been very exciting for us to see how engaged history educators are even when they cant physically be together. If i didnt say it, im grace leatherman, executive director of the National Council for History Education. We are loving doing this online conference with you