Transcripts For CSPAN3 U.S. Army Photographers In Vietnam 20240713

Taking pictures and film of the pentagon and u. S. Congress. The work of these units frequently found its way into the u. S. Media at the time and have been used in many books and museum exhibits since then. Next, from the National Archives in washington, d. C. , five vietnam war veterans who served in the special Photographic Office share images and film while discussing their combat experiences in documenting the war. This is about 90 minutes. Now, ill ask all of the Vietnam Veterans or any United States veterans who served on active duty in the u. S. Armed forces at any time from november 1, 1955 to may 15, 1975, to stand and be recognized. [applause] as you leave, we will present each of you with a pin. The United States of america vietnam war is an initiative and the last event of thanks. Last veterans day we opened our Current Special exhibition remembering vietnam. If you havent already, i hope you will take some time to go through it before it closes on january 6. Its an exploration of the vietnam war featuring interviews with american and vietnamese veterans and civilians with firsthand experience of the events as well as historic analysis. Its a fascinating selection of newly discovered and iconic original documents, photographs, film footage, and artifacts that illuminate 12 critical episodes in the war that divided the peoples of both the United States and vietnam. The visual imagery of remembering vietnam relies on the talents of many photographers who risked their own safety to capture the story of war in pictures. Tonight well hear from some of them and learn their own stories. Its my pleasure to welcome lee reynolds to the stage. Hes the Strategic Communications officer for the u. S. Army center of military history here in washington. Previously he was senior manager of the University Studios hollywood tour from 2014 to 2016 and now works as an independent contractor, as an actor, screen writer and creatorproducer. His more than 20 Years Experience in the Entertainment Industry as an actors screen writer, playwright, stage manager, military technical adviser, producer an director, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome lee reynolds on the panel. Mrauz[applause] thank you to all of you coming out to attend event. The event. Im lee reynolds, Strategic Communications officer for the u. S. Army center of military history and ill be moderating the event this evening. The center of military history is responsible for the recording, the official history of the army in peace and war. While advising the army staff on historical matters. Our core responsibilities are to educate the force and the public, to inspire americas men and women to serve, and to preserve our army heritage. I invite you to visit our website at history. Army. Nil. For more information about our commission responsibilities, about the museums we manage and about the publications that we provide. Were proud and honored to support the 50th commemoration of the vietnam war with this evenings Panel Presentation about the department of the army special Photographic Office or daspo for short. It was authorized by president kennedy in 1962 and closed down in 1974 following the end of the vietnam war. It was charged with providing documentary films and quality photo products showing the armys operations worldwide. They would report directly to the army chiefofstaff. Three detachments were created. One in europe, covering operations there. One in hawaii covering operations throughout the pacific theater, and one in panama, to cover operations in central and south america. Tonight well focus on the pacific daspo office and vietnam specifically. The daspo teams made up in part by the men you see on the stage tonight would carry stateoftheart equipment in the day, out into combat, and often by themselves, and would embed in army units in the field. They went where civilian journalists either couldnt go or wouldnt go. The results, as you will see tonight, captured on film through their lenses, were some of the most iconic pictures and films of the vietnam war. These images were not just used by the army. They could be seen in newspapers, magazines, and films throughout the United States and the world. Now, at the end of the presentation tonight were going to have about 10 minutes for questions and answers. Hopefully on way in yall were able to get some index cards and pencils to write down your questions. We have assist ants on each side. They will collect the cards during the presentation and well use those to guide the q a period. If you need an index card or pencil just let one of our assistants know. I would like to introduce dr. Erik villard. Hes the digital historian for the center of military history and the armys principle vietnam war historian. Hes the author of a new book called staying the course, october 1967 to september 1968. Hell be available in the lobby after the event to sign copies of the book and his book will be available for purchase. Ladies and gentlemen, dr. Villard. [applause] thank yall for coming. Those of you who are tuning into the live stream and those who will see this afterwards, this is a really exciting event. Something thats been in the works for a while, and im just pleased to be here with these great photographers. I was hired at the u. S. Army center of military history to write the book which became staying the course, which is the Third Operational combat history in the vietnam war series. And it was published about a year ago. In fact, we had the opening book event here, in the National Archives. In the course of doing the research i came to really value the photographic archival history. The images, the film from the vietnam war, helping me to understand what i was reading in the text. And being a visual person anyways, i suppose, i gravitated towards it, and about four or five years ago, in fact, i created a facebook base group, vietnam war history org as a way to reaching out to families and getting more information and one of the draws, i think, of this group, was these great photos that i was finding at the National Archives. I was going up to college park and digitizing these, and, you know, i had seen a lot of photos but a lot of these i had never seen before and it was such a revelation. Over the course of digitizing these photos, certain names popped up again and again. Lethune, atchison, you know, and hanson and others. And when i formed the Facebook Group and began putting out these photos, which i would digitally enhance, you know, photo shop and some other programs, so this photo you see behind you is the current generation of these photos where i put the pixie dust over them, take out the dings and scratches and adjust the color, these guys were around. And so they became members of the group and so i got to know them and they remain members of the group. Its such a wonderful thing to be able to post photos, and say, hi, bob, what were you doing that day when you took that shot . Oh, yeah, we were this, that, and the other. As a result of that kind of dialogue, i thought, this is something we need to share with everyone. The world need to know about these guys and hear the stories behind the photos. Thats where the idea behind this came. So we worked together and again i want to give a special thanks to our executive director of the center of military history, charles jr. Who believed in this vision, and supported us and made this all happen. So tonight youre going to hear from five of the top photographers for the vietnam war and i say this as the beginning of an ongoing project. Again, im posting these photos on my social media feeds and you also will find them on the center of military history social media feeds, so i encourage you to follow ose things and learn more about it. But tonight, were going to hear from these five individuals, and im going to run the slide show fomost of them until we get to the final one, but without further adu, i would like to turn over to our first speaker, bill, who will tell us a bit about the kind the history of daspo, and what it took to herd this group of wildcats, keep them in line when they were doing their thing in vietnam. Thank you, erik. Im bill and i was a captain with daspo, and i started with the United States Army Photographic agency, in the pentagon as a Second Lieutenant and worked my way into daspo, and i left there january 1, 1970 to start the new year as a civilian. My mos is an 8500 and an 8511. Whats that . 8500 is a pictorial unit commander and 8511 is a Motion Picture tv director. And in those capacities, i wore a couple of different hats. Well get into that in a moment. But to talk about the origin of daspo, as legend would have it, around 1961 or 1962, general david geoe george decker, im sorry, who was the chiefofstaff of the army at that time, would go to briefings over at the white house with jfk, and the other chiefs were there also, air force, navy, et cetera, and every time decker would go there, he would walk out and he would be furious because he would say, deputy, you know, every time we go in there, hes mouthing off with his photographs and his movies, and he puts us to shame. And i want to do something just like he does. And i want it done now. Of course, curtis was affectionately called iron. But he wanted to compete with le may. So a delta force concept was developed with decker and his staff, and he wanted an elite special ops unit and im going to read to you what they really tried to create, and which they did. Im going to read it because i dont want to miss something. He wanted a Rapid Response team. He wanted the team to be full time. He wanted the teams to be highly mobile. He wanted them unincumbered by red tape, security clearances and travel orders. He wanted everybody to have a secret or top secret clearance. Cover worldwide military subjects. He wanted quality, still, and Motion Picture products. He wanted us to have the best equipment. And always tdy into the countries that we went to, and we were told to live the economy, and also, it was special missions that were to be ordered by the deputy chiefofstaff for operations, right out of the pentagon. Thats who we worked for. Thats where our budget came from and the units that they developed were for the pacific, panama, and europe, as lee said, but europe, the deal was, if its going to the pacific, local commands could not take charge or have anything to do with our unit except perhaps give them an office on the base. And so, europe said no, were not going to do that. The pacific said fine. Use your pack. Hands off. Same in panama. Fine, let them come in. Europe said no. So europe never did get a team and it ended up going to conus and thats where it stayed. The objective was Central Control over the assignments, supplies, training, and the disposition of the work product. It got sent where it should go. The action officer to put all of that together was major arthur jones. He was at the pick center. He put a Team Together. Ill be brief. He did a lot of developing with it. He wanted an acronym. They came with daspo. Department of the army special photo office. He cherry picked the photographers that would go into the initial units. They got them from the pick center, and through the course of time, they would go out and try to find enlisted men and officers who had backgrounds in photo. In my particular case i was found by Lieutenant Colonel walter halleran, who found me at fort gordon, georgia, going through the officers communication course. I had three years background in Motion Pictures because i worked for a studio in chicago and ended up having to take my commission from Loyola University in 1965, and he found me and he put me in the pentagon. I thought, boy, this is really a well greased organization. They know what they are doing. No change of commands, no marching bands. You guys dont shoot that. Youre going to do documentaries, training films, combat. Not a Public Information officer or office type ounit. Then lastly, special orders with a license to steal that we were accused of at one time in okinawa. We were on a Top Secret Mission, never told anybody about it. I wont even talk about it tonight. I happened to open up a book. In the middle of the page it was written by the author of the puzzle palace, top secrets or whatever the name of the book was and this was this whole field in the name of the book all about our Top Secret Mission ill read a few lines, we were to take military aircraft. If there was no aircraft available could you take a private airline, pan ham, twa, to get to southeast asia. If that wasnt available you could take a foreign flag. You could rent a ship, a naval boat. You could do anything you wanted to accomplish your mission. If anything would deter us, we could circumvent the problem and do what he wanted. We could rent cars, trains, planes, anything we wanted to. Total freedom to move around. This is what really irritated that colonel. In okinawa. The utilization of government quarters and mess is not required. When we walked in there he said youre not going to a hotel. Youre going to be in the enlisted quarters. I said, sir, we cant function that way. Thats not what our orders say. Going back to what i said originally, living on the economy, we had to be together 24 hours a day. We were a mobile force ready to go. And if the enlisted men were and i was downtown in saigon and we had orders to do something it would probably take us two days to get us altogether. And then also, we would, the enlistment would have to peel potatoes that day because they had kp. This goes the mission, you know. So thats why we lived on the economy. Anything that would adversely affect our performance, we could circumvent. The other thing that ticked that colonel off, thats why we lived we were authorized to wear an carry civilian clothes. He didnt like that. We had to be in uniform. Photo number one is why we were living together, and thats what i was just saying. That we had to be together 24 hours a day. This was the villa that we lived in, and we had how am i doing on time . Two minutes. Ill talk fast. Im trying. We all were on tdy per diem so we chipped in and paid the rent for the house. We had some locals who did our laundry and cooked for us. And the guys would come out and they would have a hot cooked meal and they could get a hot shower. Photo two is in my capacity as an 8500 commander. This was a typical situation at the villa. We called it the villa. It wasnt that fancy. My job was the welfare and safety of my men, and make sure they had a roof over their head and everything was functioning. I had great ncos who made that happen. And basically, thats what was going on. My job every other day was to go to the war room. We call it the war room, it was a briefing room, where i was briefed on what was going on in each of the four cores. I would see where there was activity and i would jog that down. By activity, i mean someplace that was hot i would go back to the villa, put a Team Together and thats where they would go to that location. Many times they hitchhiked. Periodically, we could get them orders to be on a flight, but for the most part, thats what happened. This photo, there would be two or three more teams up country, at this time, so this would be the number of personnel there at any given time. Two or three, nine, 12 other guys up country, while these guys would be back. They were always rotating. They would go up to three or four days. And then, my 8511 capacity, i used to get some really cushy jobs. Here im on the lawn with bob and a couple of other guys. With Vice President humphrey. General westmoreland, ambassador bunker, and the p. R. Guy for saigon, vietnam, at the time. This is what i would call a cushy assignment, im directing, and thats my butt you can see in the photo. The next photo is the opposite, where, this was not so cushy. This is the first movie we made for Lieutenant General kinard, father of helicopter warfare. I went to d. C. , the pentagon and met him. I went back and did a complete series on the division. We were not allowed to shoot. Officers were not allowed. These guys were the pros. Why should we be screwing that up . So the next photo shows me out making that film, and i was shooting, we were on an air assault, and i couldnt resist taking this shot, so i did. And there are some other shots that go along with that that were still trying to find. In that particular film, i had three Motion Picture cameras shooting at one time. Three different choppers. It was a big production, and that was because Lieutenant General kinard said, you want helicopters in the air . Whatever you want, you got. I think at one time we had 15 helicopters up there going to war doing their thing. We shot every conceivable subject in vietnam, and the networks bought our footage. We put the footage on panam, twa, to get it back, the army picket pictorial center. I opened my own advertising agency, p. R. Firm, and di that from 1973 or so to the present day. So, were honored to have some of daspos finest photographers. Motion men sitting here tonight and our next speaker is one of the greatest daspo still photographers, bob. Bob thats me. Im retired, live in mcdonagh, which is south of georgia. In the afternoons i end up at the jonesboro legions. I enlisted in the army in 1964 and graduated from photography story in september of 1965. Like many of my fellow photographers i received orders for daspo pacific located at hawaii. Hawaii. My first thought, there is a god. [laughter] beaches, surfing, bikinis and fun in the sun. I guess at the time being a soldier in the army it evaded me. In october of 1965, i arrived aboard a ship at pearl harbor. What a hell of a pleasure trip that was. The majority of the soldiers aboard the ship were from the First Infantry Division heading on ward to vietnam. After listening to some of the soldiers i began to realize what was beginning to happen in vietnam but luckily i was going to hawaii. This 19yearold junior enlisted rookie photographer was about to get his first of many rude Awakens Awakens was about awakeings. I was picked up at pearl harbor. Kerrmitt was no longer the youngest and lowest ranking soldier in the unit. I now had that distinction. As we were driving in his tr 3 he began to explain exactly what daspo did and where and what it was all about. My bubble immediately burst. Gripping grins in hawaii were out of the question. A few weeks after i arrived, he rotated back into vietnam, i believe it was for his second rotation in. From october through december of 1965, while most of us were filming the 25th Infantry Division who was training and preparing to deploy to vietnam. My first of four rotations to vietnam started on 3 january, 1966. As we began to rotate into vietnam, other teams were rotating back to fort shalfter. Two team members rotating back were sergeant first glass jackie yamaguchi, and Sergeant First Class tom early in november 1965, yamaguchi and shiro were with Lieutenant Colonel moore filming the brutal battle in the valley at lz xray. My baptism of fire in combat photography began in early january 1966, during operations crimp, buck skin and van buren. We were asked to share some of the photos we took during our rotations, so i selected a couple of them. The first photo you see was taken on 23 january, 1966, during operation ransom buren near tuwi. I was with soldiers of the infantry, 101st airborne division. We landed in a landing zone that day. Soldiers in our first wave established their perimeter around the lz to protect and secure the arrival of fellow soldiers on different waves. Shortly after this was taken we all moved out. The next photograph, this is was taken also during operation van buren. This is chaplain captain bruno masadi. Father masadi and his assistant jack flew in and provided mass for the 327 soldiers. If you look at the photos pictured left kneeling down. Unfortunately jack was killed in action months later on may 4, 1966. Father masadi passed away back in the 1990s. Ive been in communication with his wife for several years. Pattie in an article mentioned how father masadi later stopped wearing his white robe with a cross. It seems at a later mass he may have been targeted by the vc. He immediately switched to jungle fatigues. The next photograph depicts a couple of publications that did use the photo. My grandfather, who lived in frederick, maryland, happened to see the photo on the front page of the washington sunday star, on 10 april, 1966. Of course, the photograph was taken back in january. It was used on easter sunday. Rarely did any special publication give us a credit line. They happened to give me one. Very rare. The next photograph was taken 8 january, 1967, during operation cedar falls. I was with c Company First battalion, the bobcats of the 25th Infantry Division. The company was being used as a maneuver force to chase charlie into a trap. Soldiers were dismounted and primarily chasing the vc on foot. It was an extremely hot and dirty day. Towards the end of the day, while on a break, this exhausted soldier an i climbed into the back of a Personnel Army carrier. I loved how the sunlight came through the hatch and i quietly took a shot of him while he was sleeping. The next photo was taken 6 october 1967, at a vietnamese refugee village near camp. Detachment a special forces group sent out a Civic Action Program team otherwise known as med cap to the village to conduct a sick call. I noticed many of the village children had overtaken one of their jeeps and laughingly took the shot. The next photo was taken on 10 november, 1967, in the village, i hope i pronounce this right, of gao. As a goodwill gesture members of Headquarters Company second brigade First Infantry Division provided lunch and several sundry items to the villagers. Here you see Staff Sergeant and a small vietnamese goaltender laughing at some of the events going on. I also believe there was a helicopter coming in at about the same time. I think thats why she was smiling. The children in these pictures are now in their early 50s. I can only hope they all survived and are having good productive lives. My final selected photo was taken on 21 november, 1967. This was my last shoot for daspo, vietnam, so needless to say it was one of i never saw an actual picture of this until i returned. It was used as a cover on family weekly magazine, a sunday supplement for many major newspapers. Didnt know it, never got a credit line. You can see what the operation was like. However, dan bauer and i were extremely lucky. While we were photographing the 199th fellow daspo cameraman, Staff Sergeant, burke peterson, drew the short straw. They were at dacto with the 173rd airborne photographing the brutal assault on 175. My last bit of luck came in march of 1968. I was honorariably discharge and went home. Fortunately i missed the tet offensive. I owe a large debt of gratitude to all the senior photographers and officers who mentored me along the way and had my back. I was an amateur among professionals. All spo cameramen also owe a debt of gratitude to the combat armed solders who protected and helped sustain us while we were with them in the field. I will now turn it over to carl hanson who replaced me when i left. [applause] that 19yearold up there is from an eastern montana Farm Community where he learned to dock sheep, castrate cows, fallow a dry field and stack barrels of hay. He was also one of 208 young men who went to vietnam to photograph the vietnam war for daspo. Many went on to prestigious careers in the military and as civilians. The ones im aware of became hollywood cameraman, National Geographic photographer. International News Reporter for cnn, International Corporate advertising producer, new York Advertising executive, then myself, i made moves through photography up the ladder, finally spending 25 years as a neighbor here at a Natural History photographer at the smithsonian substitution. My career began as an 18yearold high school graduate. I enlisted in the army with a promise of a 14week schooling in cinematography. Because i graduated at the top of my class in cinematography not high school. I got in a unit known as daspo. Once think learned i was going to spend a good part of my next 2 1 2 years in vietnam. Once in vietnam we would be sent out to a base camp anywhere in the country, from the dmz in the north to the rice paddies and canals in the very south. Wherever our officer like bill, in charge, had heard units were engaging with the enemy, the camera you see on my neck, although i was trained as a cim cinematographer, thats what we used, its a very difficult camera to use, even, anywhere, but in combat its very difficult, and you get 12 exposures to a roll of film and then you had to change film. Its paperback film. If you wanted to take a picture, you either had to stand up, way up high, expose yourself or turn the camera upsidedown maybe and take a picture. Very difficult camera that we used. The equipment i had in the tripod case and in the other case is my Motion Picture photographer buddys equipment that he would take. We almost always traveled as a twoman team. A still photographer and a cinemaphotrapher. We would find someone headed into Indian Country and ask to accompany them. We would stay with that unit until we ran out of film or they returned to base camp. Not all of our go assignments involved combat. Heres an exposure from a shot from the beginning of tet. We were in chuli, and the base we were at came under attack at night. The rockets this is a rocket attack. Thats my cinematographer. We were in a tent, and the first rockets started to come in. We took off running to a bunker at the other end of the tent, and by the time we got to the far end of the tent that rocket landed at the end of the tent right where my bunk was at and exploded. I was thrown to the ground, hurt my shoulder. Chuck was wounded by shrapnel in the wrist. On the right, you can see the normal results of a. 122 millimeter soviet rocket. The next day, when the eod people came to remove the remains of that rocket they explained to us that the vc, when they were carrying those down the chi minh trail, they would take out the explosives to make it lighter so they didnt have to carry as much weight and thats what saved our lives. Otherwise, we would have been two dead soldiers. Not all of our experiences were combat. This happens to be operation mcarthur. One of my combat missions i was on, but my toughest assignment i ever had in vietnam was a Training Field on the operation of the military mortuary during the time of war. I was a still photographer on that project, but i participated in all aspects of the operation. The lighting and such. This was filmed in the saigon mortuary also known as graves registration. In 1969, when an average of 320 bodies a week went through the mortuary, they were identified and prepared for return to the United States after they were retrieved from the battlefield. I worked on this project for nearly two weeks. The cinematographer i worked with worked on it many more weeks. I have never seen the photographs i took nor his film nor do i ever want to. One combat mission i remember very well went bad, from bad to worse. It was with a company of mostly new in country soldiers on their first combat mission. They were sent as a blocking force to the battle of dactow. As i remember, the first day we were in line through a very thick jungle along a narrow ridge. I was hanging back about 50 yards from the point man in patrol. And when the point man saw something in the jungle, and opened fire, several others opened fire at the same time. After they opened fire, i heard an explosion. One of the troopers behind the point man fired an m79 grenade launcher in the direction that they were shooting. And then the 79 grenade was fired from a grenade launcher, and it must make seven revolutions before its activated and can explode. This one did not do a good job or did not understand that or whatever. It went out, hit a tree and bounced back amongst the men again and went off and killed two more men. The patrol retreated to a wider spot in the ridge and to clear a landing zone, so they could get a medaciv helicopter in. They were using detonation cord, a debt cord, which is an explosive fuse and they would wrap it around the trunks of the trees and they were blowing trees to blow the trees down so that the helicopters could come in. This was very thick jungle. And while they were doing that, one of the trees was blown down, fell on another soldier and killed him. After the medivac came in and removed the dead and injured, we were ordered to dig fox holes to spend the night at that sight. My partner and i didnt have any trenching tools so we tried to scrape indentations in the ground to sleep in using my knife. After a while, a feudal tal effort, it was very hard ground, we were exhausted, and only had a few inches of indentation in the ground, and decided to lay there and cover ourselves with our poncho liners and try to go to sleep. But we couldnt sleep because there was an air force arc light operation going on a few miles down the ridge from us. An arc light operation is when flights of b52 bombers are dropping their loads of 500 pound bombs. It was an incredible sound display even though it was out of sight. Then there was silence. For a few minutes only. Before one very loud explosion. One 500pound bomb had gotten hung up in the bombay of a 5052 and when they shook it loose it laed on our perimeter killing two more of our soldiers. The next morning, the dead were helicoptered out and then we into the area where the b52s had landed. It was amazing to me to see how much Destructive Force can be absorbed by the jungle. These are 500pound bombs and the jungle just eliminated you could not really see very much damage. My teammate and i exited the operation zone. Operation zone when the resupply helicopter was brought in. In daspo we seldom knew what happened to our film once it was september to the pentagon for processing, although we would occasionally get critique combat prints or sheets to review. Then for years after, and i mean decades even, we would be shocked when we would stumble upon one of our images in print, in national newspapers, magazines, in my case, as covers of two books on vietnam. In fact, i even stumbled upon one of my more popular photo shoots predominantly in National Museums three times with exhibits related to the vietnam war. We never got credit except in, in my case, we never got credit except once, in my case, when my wife and i first moved to washington, d. C. , we were invited to dinner at the home of a friend i hadnt seen in over 30 years. Since we graduated from high school. We no sooner got seated when one of her grade school age daughters got all excited and asked her mom if she could show me now, and her mom said yes so the young girl ran to her bedroom and returned with her School History book. Opened to a page about the vietnam war. And there was a black and white picture i had taken nearly 30 years earlier, and surprisingly it had a photo credit. Photo by pfc carl i cant tell you how proud it made me feel, to see the pleasure in this young girl, the pleasure this young girl took in knowing that the combat photographer was a friend of her family. So, with that, ill turn this over to my friend. Do you want okay. Do the last one. Yeah. This is the last couple of pictures. And ill turn it over to my friend, ted atchison, who is a cinema photographer. [applause] my name is ted atchison. I was born in flint, michigan, went to college in wisconsin. I was junior in 1966, and uncle sam kept changing me from 2a 2s to 1a. 1a was being able to get drafted. So i was drafted, and they let me finish off my first semester of my junior year, and i was brought in and they asked me if i wanted to take another year and go to school which sounded pretty good to me, so i did that and the school that i was able to get was Motion Picture photography school, and some all of us went to the same school, but different avenues. So january of 1967, i went in for basic training and went to hawaii, just like these guys, thinking, wow, this is great. So, after the army, i served from 1967 to 19 the end of 1969. After the army, i went back to school, finished my undergrad, went to grad school, and then i had a 40year career producing and directing National Television commercials for the auto industry. Between 1962 and 1974, we served in a unique unit. And before i go any further i would just like to clear something up about our villa. You saw pictures of that earlier. In 2000, we had a daspo reunion in saigon. We found the villa after searching for half a day. They changed all the street names to vietnamese names, after the war in 1975. So we had quite a time finding it. And my wife was with me, and this was in the year 2000. I took her to the villa and she heard her whole life about this villa. And so i showed her the villa. She said, thats a villa . There were no topiaries or waterfalls. Why daspo was so successful, it had been created and organized to work outside the control of the army command in the host countries we operated in. We were designed to work only for the department of defense and the pentagon. We didnt take grim photography. We had passports that were allowed us in and out of countries, and we also had i. D. Cards that we could just about take any flight we wanted to, First Priority in vietnam. Even with all the support, it didnt help when we needed to speak to a general officer. A First Sergeant or a command Sergeant Major was a hell of a fire wall for them. We usually succeeded in meeting the general, that we came to speak with. The retired colonel asked me one day, he said, how did an e4e5 handle this . I said, it was part bravado and part naivete. We would go in and meet a general, the first thing i would do is salute and go up and shake his hand. He was happier than hell that we were there to show how great his unit was. So he would ask the Sergeant Major, anything they want. So, that was really extremely helpful. Our officer in charge, talked to the contact host, tell them we were planning on coming up there. But, we worked between two worlds. The grunts that we sweated in the bush and the echelon clerks who worked in air conditioned offices. Looking back, it wasnt difficult to be proud of what we accomplished. Much of what daspo accomplished has become part of the visual history of vietnam. That picture of mine was me in a place called caisson, and that was a pretty modern camera that i was carrying compared to this, which is like a tank. You can hit a vc with this, and man, would you be in bad shape. You could wind it and it would shoot, what, 33 seconds or Something Like that. And you had to wind it again. Stop and wind it. So that was, you know, it took about three minutes of film, or Something Like that. Unlike civilian photographers and reporters who made a reputation for themselves and furthered their careers, by covering combat, military photographers were just merely doing our job. On may 6, 1968, i was with the 101st airborne, second of the 17th, and they were on an operation, and they were told they were going in to clear out a village, and it was some straggling v. C. In the building. It hadnt been cleared. Unfortunately, we ran into two regiments of nva, and there was a patterson with us. He ended up receiving the medal of honor. We killed 55 nva in the first five minutes. We fought from about 4 30 until 2 a. M. In the morning. I had a 16 millimeter air flex that was battery powered. We were trained to at least get a shot that was 10 to 12 seconds in length. You had to stand up and get that shot. And you were exposing yourself. You had to get another shot like that and another shot to build a sequence. And another and another. But you were exposing your body and not moving is an eternity under fire. Its amazing to me under the most arduous of conditions, we were all in, that you would still frame the scene, and were worried about composition but it was instinctive. We did it. We were able to pick the correct focal length, and we imagined how the shot was going to be for the next scene. All at the same time. Even under combat conditions, we were all doing this instinctively. You want me to run the clip. Wait just a second. Yeah. When you were trying to change your film, you had during combat, you had a hundred foot roll, you had to put another one in the camera. And when you were putting that in the camera, you had sweat coming out of you like you couldnt believe. Your eyes, you know, sweat runs into your eyes effectively trying to get the film in. That was really very, very difficult to do under those conditions. I think you had to run the film ill show you what i ran into that day. Patterson appears in this film . Yes. Patterson medal of honor. [ music music [gunshots] music music [gunshots] music there is a killer on the road music music music music let the Children Play music [music] killer on the road. And there is sergeant patterson. Here is his paperwork for the medal of honor that had to be submitted. His platoon sergeant was wounded. I had photos of him, and i had captions. After 43 years i tracked down the platoon sergeant and i had a picture of him standing next to a tree where he was wounded in the stomach. I had actually located the guy, and he lived 45 minutes from me and we didnt know that. [laughter] i found most of his members that were with us that day, and we still get together. And i got wounded about half an hour after that, and at nighttime, we couldnt film, and, like i said, we were fighting until 2 00 a. M. In the morning. And i picked up a weapon that night and used it. Dick, why dont you tell them a little bit about your experience. [applause] like 1. 8 million men in our generation, i got drafted. I was23 can we go to the next picture. Yeah. Okay. There it is. Sorry, i didnt realize i had to do that. 1. 8 million men in our generation i got drafted. I was 23. I had just soon my first pictures published in National Geographic magazine. My dream was to be a photojournalist so after basic training when the orders came in assigning me to daspo, i was thrilled. I was going to be a photojournalist. Well, as you have seen, the daspo assignments took us all over vietnam, to film virtually every aspect, from the north to the delta in the south. One of my most memorable assignments occurred in august of 1967. I flew into the heart of the macon delta to photograph the mobile marine force, a joint armynavy unit comprised of elements of the ninth Infantry Division and the support boats. We were participating in a search and destroy mission in a special zone. A swamp. 40 clicks southwest of saigon known as the killer swamp. The killer swamp was a miserable place. Where the mud and the water made it incredibly difficult to move around, and the brush hid not only the enemy, but the snakes. Between patrols in the swamp, we chugged up and down canals, constantly scanning the shore looking for soldiers who might be trying to blow us out of the water. On foot and in the boats, we felt like sitting ducks. And thats an awful, awful feeling. I was with these guys for three days. And i was rattled. Those guys did it for a year. Imagine what that did to their minds. On a hot afternoon in march of 1968, 35 miles northwest of saigon, i photographed infantry men, m60 tanks, and apcs from the 25th Infantry Division who were trying to clear deeply entrenched vietcong units from one of the base camps near kachi. I couldnt believe how loud it was. The roar of the tank engines, the boom of their big gates, the rattattat of the engines. Darting from treetotree, taking cover where i could find it. I was so focused onphw photographing, i didnt even think about the danger. Until the guy to my left got hit. That afternoon, there was one kia and four wounded. Buddies were there for the wounded, and that made all the difference. That day, as it does every day, in combat. But i recently learned there could have been two kia that day. Not long ago a vet, who was also there that day, a guy named robert cidarko, contacted me after seeing a picture from this fire fight that i had posted on erics vietnam war book Facebook Page and he told a chilling story. At one point during the fighting, all of the units had been ordered to pull back to bring in an air strike. Since i was on foot and operating as we did, alone basically, i had no idea that an air strike was headed our way and then suddenly, i was startled by something that came roaring up behind me and one of the guys yelled at me, for christ sake get in here, get in here now. One of the men had spotted me and said, to the driver, that nut case, you know that photographer, hes out there, we got to go get him, well, if that guy had not seen me, and if the driver had not turned back, who knows what would have happened. On another assignment to photograph the first photograph the first air cab Recon Mission up north, i encountered another facet of the fighting we faced in vietnam. The mission was to locate a large force of enemy troops that the intelligence guys thought were moving through the area. We started on a ridge but soon plunged into elephant grass so thick we couldnt see more than three feet in any direction. I got to tell you something. Thats spooky. Finally we broke out on to the valley floor. Still didnt see the enemy. But it sure felt like they were nearby. The tension never let up. And what made those patrols so difficult was not knowing who was a friend and who was a foe. I mean, ordinary life seemed to be going on, kids tending water buffalo, women watering the fields. But the men, what about the men . Were they farmers . Or were they fighters . Or were they both . We just didnt know. And in spite of intense interrogations they never talked. It was only on the chopper flying out of the valley that i figured out that the vietnamese were caught in an impossible bind. Anything they said could bring retribution down on their family members or friends. But their silence put us in a hell of a bind, too. As one of the riflemen said, dick, there is no more he willllishhellish dimension out here not knowing if someone is a friend or a foe. Do you pull the trigger or not . What if youre wrong . How do you live with that . For most of my tour in vietnam i felt a majority of the south vietnamese welcomed our help. But on the 30th of january, 1968, the vc and the nba forces launched simultaneous surprise attacks on major cities throughout the country including saigon. Yeah. The tet offensive was under way. When i learned that the enemy had been able to get as many as a thousand men into some of those cities without our knowing it. I realized that we had not won the hearts and minds of the people. And if the people were not with us, no matter how many enemy bases we destroyed, no matter how many enemy soldiers we killed, the light at the end of the tunnel was never going to get any closer. We came to vietnam with the best of intentions, we put everything we had into the fighting. But it was now clear that we were not making life better for the people we were trying to help. Women and children were getting caught in the crossfire. Their homes and their lives were being destroyed. I know this is really hard stuff to look at and to listen to. But if were to appreciate what the men and women who were out there fighting for us today are doing for us, we have to understand what combat is doing to them. They put their lives on the line. They stare terror down. They stare terror down. And they lose buddies in battles. And then they come home. Where they have to square what they had to do as warriors to stay alive with what they are now expected to do to be alive as they try and reach out and connect with their family members and friends. Let me tell you something. Thats not so easy. Ptsd can be a bear. Its been 50 years since i returned from vietnam, but the war is still with me. Appearing like a ghost. Its been 50 years since i returned from vietnam but the war is still with me appearing like a ghost in pictures i capture every day with my phone. When i look at the handle on the lid to a street sewer and feel like im peering deep into my psyche. When i see a face in a swirl of walnut grain and recall the guilt i felt when i pushed civilian values aside. When i see a wool hat thats been run over in the street with an ear phone cord curling out of it unplugged. And recall the loneliness of being unplugged from family members and friends. Or when i see an ice formation in a fountain that remind me of the armies of men who have down through the centuries marched off to war into the terrifying darkness of combat. I think one of the best ways that we can honor our vets from past wars, i think one of the best ways we can all honor our vets from past wars and the soldiers who are fighting for us today, and that is to treat every day as veterans day and to take a couple of minutes each day to appreciate what they are doing for us, and to try and understand what they are going through, what it is doing to them and what we can do to support them. And what i hope you never forget is that once war gets in here and gets in here, it never leaves. I would like to thank all of you, for this opportunity to share our stories with you. [applause] we would like to honor two of our guests. Our brothers, who didnt make it home but were killed in action. Kermit yoho and rick ryan. All these gentlemen worked with one or the of these fellows and miss them very much. I would also like to thank david ferriero, erik villard, lee reynolds, David Reddick and in keeping with our thing about getting credits, i want to thank joe williams, photographer for taking some photographs. Thank you. [applause] all right. Thank you, gentlemen. And well go ahead and do the questions and answers. I have two cards. If you have any that you filled out, please pass them to the sides and they will pass them up. So, the first question i have here is, how did you protect your film in combat and and the elements in combat . And did you ever run out of film or lose it . When we finished filming, we packaged up all of our film, we made sure that we didnt lose it. We had it in our pockets. That picture of me, i had film all over, and, you know, in a backpack as well. But we would carefully tape the film cans and get them back. When we went back to the villa, the first thing we did was type out our captions and get the film on an airplane back to the states so that it could get processed. You really had to be careful the other puck shot of me, i was all full of dust. You just had to be careful when you were changing your magazines. Put your hands into a magazine bag, change it. That saved it from getting any dust in it. We werent out that long, we were we still had plastic bags back then. We could tie them and hopefully not get it protected the film. The last couple of days weve been going through the archives possessions of our film that we havent seen in 50 years. And i was noticing in my Motion Picture film a lot of it was heat damaged, not a lot but you can see from rolltoroll, there it wasnt from processing, there was some damage from heat or humidity, so the film did get damaged by the environment. We carried it in heat, through the rain, and humidity, and we did the best we could to protect it. It was wrapped in metal canisters and tape around them and in plastic bags when we could. It did get damaged. To follow up, im curious, how did you make sure like the right roll of film had the right caption type . Did that was there ever a risk that the two would get separated, you sent it back, like still or film, they wouldnt know they were numbered. They were numbered. Yeah. We shot we had 12 shots per roll on the 120, and the opening shot we would usually have a slate. And we would shoot the slate, and then we had like little i remember the notebooks that we were carrying and you would write on that roll one, photograph one, two, three, four, five, six, doing it that way, and then it would get married up with that roll of film when it went up for processing. Did any of you keep those . Those notebooks . Yep. Well move on to the next question. What was done with sensitive photos . So if, something that maybe the military didnt want to get out, what did you do with those kinds of photos, and were you ever directed by any units you were operating with not to take pictures anywhere . Yes. I can address the classified issue. When the rolls came back, no one in vietnam was censoring or whatever because the rolls go back to get processed. Either at red zone or at pick stone in long island city, new york. It was at that point, not so much at redstone but at the pick center, where you might see some classification going, or actually, it was probably coming out of the pentagon on the fifth floor, where, if something was too sensitive it would get classified. Okay. The other part of that story is, i was doing a job with what was the group that had the tanks . The first of the 69th . The 69th . Yeah. I believe that was a unit that general pattons son was commanding. Oh, you mean the 11th army 11th army. Okay. When i got there, and we discussed what i was going to film, he was not happy about it because he had brought in these he wanted to prove they were great tanks. Congress and the pentagon didnt feel that they were living up to what they wanted them to do. They couldnt climb over berms. The radiator sucked in the foliage. The things would stall. Just things like that. And he sent an officer out with me to make sure what i was doing was, you know, he wasnt happy. So i took a resupply out of there, a guy that he sent with me, didnt even know i had left. Yes sir. Were discussing our two cameramen that were with colonel moore and the tracheotomy story. Oh, yeah. And you tell the story. Well, one man was wounded in the throat, and there was a chief surgeon of the division that happened to be along and he did a battlefield tracheotomy. Cut the guys throat, stuck a straw or something in there, and the cameraman filmed it. When they got back gotf64 to the villa, and the film was processed, and like a week later, all hell broke loose at the pentagon. This is the kind of stuff we dont want you filming. No blood. An american tv might see this. This might get out. Well, after a few physicians saw that footage, it was hurrah, because now they could show other medics and doctors how to do this type of thing, and in the field. In the field, and these guys now were treated like kings after that. [laughter] we have a couple of questions asking about the ratio of black and white photos to color photos, and who decided whether you should shoot black and white or color . Ill answer that. We were shooting color negative film so that it could be color or black and white. Oh. And who would decide whether to print it in color or black and white . I wouldnt know that. Okay. The pentagon. And why photographic agency. Why wouldnt they want it all in color . Oh, i think there are situations where the black and white is more powerful than color. Stars and stripes back then were basically black and white. A follow up question from somebody, why six by six versus. 35 millimeter . I think they wanted the larger image. And, you know, when we first started, when i was there, we were shooting with a rolle. Everything was going the other way. If you were shooting like this, its the worlds worst combat camera that you could have. Youve got to stand up. So, but it did give a better, you know, it was a bigger piece of film so more higher resolution. A question about the relationship between daspo and civilian journalists, and maybe even other Public Affairs officers. What was your relationship with civilians and maybe you were going some places that maybe they couldnt. Did they ever ask you to take pictures of certain things . I can address the a cameraman that i had when i was in the 221st for six months, thank god i got out of there, and then i went to daspo but during that time i had a cameraman there, he was with cbs, prior to coming into the service, and he was, at the hotel in saigon, and i saw him periodically after i got into daspo, and bill plant for cbs was a correspondent, a good friend of mine, so i would see him downtown once in a while, and keith always said, you guys really get to go anywhere you want, and it really ticks us off that you can go and get that done. And then, later on, the war came along in iraq and afghanistan, keith was still active, and all the journalists wanted to be embedded, and keith warned him, he said, you dont want to be embedded, because once you are, they control you, a hundred percent, and you cant go anywhere but be with them, and you can only shoot what they want, and just be careful. Well, what happened. They all got embedded, and then they all complained. We have no freedom. An interesting question here, whats the most spectacular scenery you encountered while on tour as a photographer in vietnam . Beaches. Yeah. Beaches. I would say east coast. Flying into caisson, i flew in there, general abrams kicked the other pilot out and he controlled the aircraft. We were going down the river. One of the most spectacular things i saw, it looked like shangrila, right near caisson, you have to pull up, the chopper, and go in but right where it was, it was a huge waterfall. And it was spectacular to see that in the jungle. And then, quarter of a mile away, it was a moon scape. What was your other comment . This would be a great country to visit if there wasnt a war going on. I thought the highlands were beautiful. The central islands up around i was up in valley quite a bit with the mountainside and everything up there. It was photographic scenicwise, a photographers wonder. I thought it was beautiful country up in there until rainy season hit. You mentioned some of the equipment that you had and some of the challenges you had with it. Did you ever supplement the equipment that you were issued with any of your own . With any what . Of your own equipment. Did you bring anything of your own out there . Yeah, i had bought a blue 16 millimeter camera off the bbc and it had a battery on it, and, it also had a nice zoom lens on it, and i would not take this out. A nobody knew, i would use my blue, and run it for the full three minutes, and then change it. Pardon me . Its greater than this. It was a great camera. But if someone saw me in the hierarchy or unit, they probably would have been a little upset. Not me, ted. As soldiers going out to the front lines, being in these combat areas, were there ever first, what weapons did you carry and were there ever times where you just had to put down your camera, i think one of you mentioned it earlier, talk about some of these times where you had to become just a rifleman. I carried, well, i guess you could call it a weapon, i dont know if you would or not, i had a. 45. Very rarely cleaned it. If i had to shoot it, i would probably be better off throwing it. [laughter] to me, it was extra weight. I always felt like, you know, if we got into a situation, you know, where iv]u had to protect myself, if it was that bad of a situation, i was pretty sure there would be a weapon laying around somewhere that i could pick up. So a. 45 to me was just extra weight. Really didnt want to carry it. I stopped carrying my. 45. We were all issued a. 45 caliber pistol and i carried mine all the time. It was only once that i pulled it. And that was because, when we were in the field with these units, we were not part of the actual group of combat soldiers. We were there by ourselves, the two of us, and if we got separated we were there by ourselves. They didnt worry about us. We werent part of their team. We were a photographic team. And we were going through one village, and v. C. Were jumping out of holes and the patrol was going through the village. Got spread out. I had to change film. I went down, i changed film, takes maybe three minutes, i got up, and i couldnt see another american soldier anywhere. And all of a sudden, you know, im totally by myself. I dont see anybody. And i got scared. And i pulled my. 45 out and i started looking for somebody else, you know, waiting for somebody to pop out of a spider hole but thats the only time i ever pulled a weapon. One time i was with the marines and we went in, i just happened to go on civil action patrol camp, it had been overrun and everybody was killed except for one soldier taken prisoner and we were going out to check it out, and the marines would not let me go out there except, unless i had a flat jacket on, a helmet and an m16 and my. 45. They wouldnt even let me get on their truck to head out there. One time i pulled my. 45. I was with the first air cab. We were doing a search. It was before search and destroy really became popular, but it was a Search Mission and we surrounded this village at 4 00 in the morning or whatever it was. Anyway, we did our thing and we searched the village, and we were taking a break, i dont know, it was like 9 00 in the morning, if the sun was up, of course, and there was a bull sitting over under a tree and he had about three or four other cattle with the herd and for some reason he didnt like me. And he started charging me. We had rice paddies all around the place. I said why, is he coming after me . Here he comes. The other guy stayed, you know, i pulled my. 45. Now im running, and catching this thing behind me because im going to put that baby down, hopefully and then he just stopped. So then he went back. And then he looked at me 10 minutes later, hes charging me again. The only time i pulled my. 45. One final question for the evening. You mentioned there was a daspo reunion in 2000 in vietnam. Did all of you go back and see vietnam again, or for any of you who have returned to vietnam since the end of the war, what are your impressions on the postwar vietnam . I think my am i the only one that went back . I went back twice. Once with the reunion, and then again, i was looking at doing some production work over there. And i was trying to see who was available. And how much it was. I was looking at so, when i first went back, it wasnt the place that i was at in 1968 and 1969. I couldnt relate to the place. It was like going to laos or thailand. The economy in the south was starting to take off. The people were extremely kind to us. Only about 1 3 of the people that were alive in 2000 even had any memory of the war, were alive at that time. So they didnt the people of vietnam didnt see us as the invaders any longer. They saw us as business partners, and it was it was really a good thing for a couple of our guys because they really had some ptsd problems. And seeing it was now a community of people that wanted us there, with open arms, and, i never saw any animosity towards an american there. Thank you very much. And that really concludes our event this evening but ladies and gentlemen, can we just get a round of applause for our daspo veterans here this evening. [applause] on behalf of the u. S. Army center of military history i want to thank our cosponsors, mr. Ferriero and the national arrestchives and all of our veterans. For more information on the armys role in vietnam please visit our website at history. Army. Mil thank you very much and have a great evening. We have copies of books for sale