Transcripts For CSPAN3 QA Richard Norton Smith 20240713

Did you call your book that you wrote 35 years ago, uncommon man . Richard its taken actually from the title of a relatively famous hoover speech about the uncommon man. Remember Vice President henry wallace, who was the second of fdrs Vice President s, gave a famous speech in 1942, i believe, maybe 1943, about the century of the common man. And wallace, from a left of center perspective, was projecting the goals and ambitions of the generation that was fighting world war ii. It wasnt enough simply to the nazis, but to create at home a true democracy, a place where the common man would finally come into his own. And hoover approached this from a different place on the political spectrum. He was in effect making the case for what we might call a meritocracy. I should not paraphrase it, but when you get sick, you want an uncommonly skillful doctor. When we go to war, we want an uncommonly able general. You get the picture. The advances in society were brought about not by common, but by uncommon individuals. And then with hoover wit, he said i have never met an american parent who is proud to have their son or daughter called common. And it is an interesting, you know, its an interesting outlook. In any event, it seemed to me it applied to hoover more than anyone else. Hoover said, when all is said and done, accomplishment is all that matters. Which when you think about it, it is a rather unsentimental the sort of thing you would expect an engineer to say. And that is one of the keys to understanding his life, his success in everything but the presidency. Brian as we continue our series on the presidency, go back to the beginning of Herbert Hoover. Where did he come from and where did it all start . Richard his life began in august 1874. General grant was in the white house. His father was a blacksmith, jesse hoover. His mother first of all, they were both quakers, which meant that she was an equal presence in the church, in the community, the home. She was a lay preacher, if you will. So religion was a significant part of his early days. He remembered and again, it seems to me such a window on his later shortcomings, if you will, as a politician in particular. He remembered as a boy sitting in the stark, cold, barren meetinghouse that the quakers used in west branch, and his feet did not even touch the floor. And along with all the adults, women on one side, men on the other, waiting for the divine light to illuminate his life, to move him to speak as it moved others in the congregation. And he also said something terribly poignant. He said he was 10 years old before he realized that he could do something for the sheer joy of it without offending the lord. Was clearly moved by suffering, particularly of children in belgium and thereafter, they had trouble making the two hoovers blend. And in some ways, again, it was a preview. His strengths were the mirror side of his weaknesses. Brian what were his parents like and what happened to them . Richard well, he was orphaned at eight. Jesse died first. , i believe i want to say he may have been 10. In any event, he was put on a train with . 10 sewn into his underclothes and some homemade vittles, and sent to live with a quaker uncle in newberg, oregon. If you go today, you can see the Herbert Hoover boyhood home there. And there he was, in effect, trained to business. His uncle was a businessman. And bert, as he was known, went on to stanford. He was in the original class. In fact stanford became the closest thing to a home away from home. He would be a trustee for 50 years. He built his home there. Today, it is the University President s house. But any event he loved stamford. ,he ran a business. He ran a laundry business and other businesses. He had an entrepreneurial streak in him. Studied geology and engineering. Met, fell in love with lou henry, also from iowa. A unique woman in many ways. The first at stanford to earn a geology degree. They had this real partnership, they were intellectual equals. The best evidence of that is they were married in 1899, and the government of china had invited him to help develop that countrys mines. And they were they went, and they were probably caught up in the boxer rebellion, the native forces against the westerners, who for too long had subjugated and exploited a very weak china. In any event, they were in china during the siege. And then these wonderful letters, lou, who was she was the perfect wife because she loved adventure. And to her, the boxer rebellion was an adventure. She writes letters home saying, youre missing one of the great sieges of the age. She also said later on she got up every morning and sweep the bullets off her front porch. They had two children, two sons. Designed you can see it at the library a cradle exclusively for use on board ocean liners. By the time herbert junior was a year old, he had been around the world five times, which tells you what happened, was herbert began in nevada, and being hired by a London Mining firm at the age of and sent to australia, 23 found fabulous riches there for his employers, then went to london. He had offices. By the time hes in his 30s, he is generally regarded as the worlds foremost mining engineer and he is living in london. And in fact one of the things , that would come back to haunt him throughout his political career, throughout his public life, were those among his own countrymen, nativists, who believed that he was not sufficiently american. That he was somehow really british. It is reminiscent of some of the allegations made against barack obama when he ran for president. In any event, hoover is 40 years old in 1914, living in london as i say hugely successful, restless. He was a member of the society of friends, a quaker. And he had a quaker conscience and was bored with making money. He was a millionaire several times over, and he was not terribly impressed with wealth. And so, in 1914, at the outbreak of world war i, he was very receptive when he was approached by some fellow engineers. The first crisis of the war was something approaching 120,000 american travelers who were in europe at the time the war broke out, who managed to make their way to london. But then they had to get home. Hoover agreed to, in effect, leave this group. They put up their own funds at times, that managed to organize transportation to get all of these people out of the war zone , to get them home. The thing to remember about it is, for all the checks he wrote, and he wrote a lot of checks he , said later on, only 500 was not repaid, which was a fraction. And it taught him a lesson, for better or worse, which is the foundation on which everything that follows rests. He had an unlimited faith in the generosity, the basic goodness, and the trustworthiness of the American People. And that is important because subsequently, in a matter of weeks, he was approached about taking on an enormous task, something never before attempted, something that no one could really put their arms around. Because it had never been attempted. Belgium had been invaded by the germans. Basically it was out of the war, there was 7. 5 Million People in atgium who faced starvation one point who was told they were down to five days of food supply. In addition, there was a corner of france. Anyway, between the two, there were 10 Million People who confronted the specter of starving to death. In the face of that, hoover was asked to in effect abandon his career for however long the war lasted and undertake the organization of what i call an independent republic of relief. No one had any idea of the dimensions of the task. They learned that the hard way. But eventually, something called the commission for the relief of belgium, or the crb. And remember, britain was blockading europe and germany. The germans to not want to feed the belgians. The british were shocked anyone asked them to feed the belgians, who after all had been invaded by the germans. What hoover was doing, or attempting to do, had never been done before. In the end, it was a fouryear effort that cost over 1 billion. When 1 billion was a real money. Most of it was raised, some of its provided by warring governments. But he kept the belgians alive. One of the things and there are so many stories. As long as he had he told belgian stories. That was a period of unadulterated accomplishment and idealism. Lou, his partner, undertook to save the belgium lace industry. They were always trying to raise funds, so basically she saw to it there were these surreptitious factories, if you will, people who were making, spinning belgian lace, which would be smuggled out of the country. They would have lace from the factories under their clothes. The story is everything. It is a spy story, a humanitarian story, i political and diplomatic story. Hoover was not very diplomatic by nature. The interesting thing is lou said later on he was never the after never the same after belgium, that what he saw especially the children. , remember he was orphaned. All his life, he was not naturally gifted in social interaction, but with children, it was a different person. Belgium stamped him, for better or worse. And the other remarkable thing, and again going on what we said earlier, it was all voluntary. He appealed to the American People. He said to the American People, if you tell them what you need, they will give you the shirt off their backs. And there is you go to west branch, the records are there. It is a remarkable story. I mean there was one group, i , think they were the kansas club of new york who were going to build a clubhouse. Instead of building themselves a clubhouse, they gave hoover the 500,000 that they had raised. That was repeated over and over again. And again at this point, the United States was in the middle of war. Again but reinforced hoovers belief that all his life he was working for a third way, between laissezfaire capitalism, which he abhorred, and socialism, which he dreaded. And he came up with this it is a terribly clunky term, associational what was it . Voluntary association. The idea that without government coercion, without legislative edict, you could approach, you could reach americans at the grassroots through churches, through community chests, through red cross, all whole a whole host of volunteer organizations. That was the backbone of america. That was the strength of america. That was what gave voice to american ideals. And that was great. It worked. And then Woodrow Wilson asked hoover to come home. He had become a phenomenon, as you might imagine. Wilson had trusted him with something called the American Food administration. And he is it is all voluntary. There are no ration cards in world war i. He uses propaganda. He uses public relations. This new, embryonic science, to reach people, and touch people, and motivate people to respond to his appeals. So there were meatless mondays, and there were wheatless wednesdays. Not every campaign worked. There was a campaign buy a pig. ,they properly cared for peak is is as sanitary as anything else. Well the suburbs do not rise up and buy that. A byproduct of the food administration. Again the idea was that the American People would grow more, save more, and together they would basically feed their allies across the sea. The problem with that, there are two problems with that. Again, it confirmed hoover in his belief, which by now was a bedrock conviction, that whatever the problem, you did not need a government solution, you just needed to organize i mean, hoover always said the test of democracy is that it is organized from the ground up, not dictated from the top down. And again, people responded, it confirmed him in his faith. Economically the problem legacy was farmers grew more and more. They became addicted to foreign to surplus purchases course in theof 1920s, no more war, no more european markets, and there is a slump. So there was an agricultural depression in america long before 1929. And that was one of the things that bedeviled president s throughout the time. Hoover and Woodrow Wilson became close, what passes for close with either man. Each in his own way was almost too rational, too cerebral for the political process. They were both at versailles, wilson and hoover was part of the delegation. And later on, years later, hoover did something no american president had ever done, and the record stood until george w. Bush wrote about his dad. Hoover was the only american president to write a book about another american president , he wrote a book called the ordeal of Woodrow Wilson, which was very sympathetic and a best seller. Hoover wrote two dozen books. That was the only one on the bestseller list. Andit is a fascinating what it is in wilson that clearly appeals to hoover, it is useful to know in terms of predicting many of the problems that hoover would experience in the white house. Brian who asks him to be commerce secretary and how long was he there and what impact did he have . Richard it is interesting. The Harding Administration Warren Harding, rather touchingly aware of his own limitations, set out to recruit a cabinet of the best men. So i mean Charles Evans hughes became secretary of state. And he asked hoover, and basically gave hoover a choice. And hoover picked the commerce department, which in those days was perhaps the least Important Department in the cabinet. Well of course hoover being hoover, soon there were cartoons to portray hoover as secretary of commerce and undersecretary of everything else. He did ruffle a lot of feathers. Well, hee used created something out of what was there. The federal radio commission, radio is regulated because hoover started it. The forerunner of the fcc. And from the outset, he was certain he did not want a bbc type arrangement. He did not want he wanted government to regulate the industry, but he did not want government to run the industry. With enormous repercussions ever since. The first airfield in washington was hoover, hoover field, over on the where the pentagon is now. He took he wrote zoning regulations that could be adapted all over the country. He promoted the construction of new housing with standardized products. I mean, sounds kind of dull, but the fact is something hoover was an engineer and thought like an engineer. He ate like an engineer. In the white house, it was famous, no state dinner could last more than 60 minutes. And he once ate five courses in 13 minutes. He, in the 1920s, he called his son into his office one day, Herbert Clarkwas hoover, and his son was Herbert Clark hoover, junior, and he asked him, would you mind dropping your middle initial . Because it took him so long to write out his name. They could save you have got to get yourself inside that kind of brain in order to understand both hoovers accomplishments and his limitations. Brian how long was he commerce secretary . Richard he was commerce secretary for eight years. Seven and a half years. Under harding and coolidge. Very poignant scene and you know, who knows what might have been harding had Great Respect for hoover. He never [laughter] he said, you do not write the same gd english that i do. I am not sure that that is an insult, but anyway, but he had Great Respect for hoover. One thing i have mentioned both , parties in 1920 floated with the idea of nominating hoover. Wilson told his brotherinlaw, that if left to him, if he could choose as his successor Herbert Hoover. And hoover talked to some in 1920, but he decided he was a bull moose republican, a Teddy Roosevelt progressive republican. He was no stand pattern. His problem with the party throughout the 1920s and his presidency was from the right wing of the party that never really trusted him. A lot of them were isolationists too. They held his cosmopolitan background against him. But anyway, he accompanied harding on the crosscountry voyage of understanding to alaska, where harding fell ill. And then they returned to san francisco. It is funny, Hoover Harding pressed Hoover Harding was clearly oppressed by something, and he could not get it off his chest. And so he could not sleep. And so he played bridge endlessly game after game of , bridge. And it is funny, hoover, who loved cards and was a mean canasta player, permanently lost his taste for bridge, never played bridge again after harding died because that trip had worn out his tolerance for the game, but also because of the tragic consequences of the trip. Harding asked him at one point, cryptically, if you knew from of some prescandal within the administration, what would you do . And hoovers advice was to go public with it. You would at least get credit for exposing the wrongdoers. And harding did not bring up the subject again, but it was very clear to hoover that teapot dome and the other harding scandals had broken through. And were, you know he said later on, people dont die of canen hearts, but people get exhausted and be vulnerable to heart attacks because of profound disappointment. And clearly Warren Harding was disappointed. The other the completion of that story, harding died in august 1923, coolidge becomes president. He retains hoover. They dont have the same chemistry that harding did. Coolidge was as suspicious of activity as hoover was unwilling to be inactive. And plus i think coolidge sensed hoovers ambition. And yet it is interesting, when the mississippi overflowed, what to this day by some measurements is still the greatest Natural Disaster in American History, 1927, a flood covered thousands and thousands of square miles in the south, there was no government agency, no expectation the government would respond in any way. There was only Herbert Hoover. Who had the nickname the master of emergencies. Well this was a domestic , emergency on the scale he had dealt with overseas. So typically, he left washington, went out into the field, organized you know tent cities, Railroad Cars full of food, you know, etc. Etc. It is interesting, because in 1928, he ran against a very impressive governor of new york, al smith, charismatic figure, in many ways seen as sort of the founder of modern liberalism before franklin roosevelt. His successor. And it is, you know, no one writes about 1928 without emphasizing the bigotry, the anticatholic bigotry that smith ran into, particularly in the south. And extraordinarily, you know, it is not Barry Goldwater who broke the solid south or dwight eisenhower. It was Herbert Hoover who carried texas and some other southern states. The assumption is that he only carried them as a measure of the anticatholic bias that existed in the deep south, and that clearly was a factor, but there is another factor that tends to get overlooked. And that was the gratitude that people in the deep south felt because hoover was the face of relief at the time of the floods. You know, the only person really, certainly the only Person Associated with government who had tried to address their needs. I mentioned the harding story concludes in 1930 they built g, hollow drum in marion ohio, but they could not , get anyone to dedicate it. Coolidge would not go and dedicate it. And hoover, in 1930, seven years after harding died, hoover took a train to marion, and he dedicated it. Not only did he dedicate it, but he used his speech to single out people in the audience in the Harding Administration who he felt had hastened the president s death. I mean, it was a very gutsy thing to do. Brian how was he picked by the Republican Party to be the candidate, and how big did he win against al smith . Richard he was in many ways he was a reluctant choice. I mean remember, this is a guy who had, you know, fraternized with the enemy. Have been part of Woodrow Wilsons war cabinet. This was someone who had talked seriously with democrats in 1920. There was a wonderful letter that year from Young Franklin roosevelt to a friend who had talked about hoovers virtues, and fdr agreeing saying he certainly is a wonder. No one would be better than Herbert Hoover as a democratic nominee. Hoover was not interested in being a sacrificial lamb that year. He knew enough about politics to know that in 1920, it was a republican year. So anyway, he allowed his name to be entered in the california primary against hiram johnson, a senator who was a militant isolationist. And the result was a mixed bag. He got enough votes to really wound johnson and make sure that johnson would not be nominated, but not enough votes to impress the professionals. And remember, that was the famous smokefilled Room Convention where a senatorial cabal met and came up by process of elimination with Warren Harding. Hoover was never a regular republican. Again he had been a supporter of the bull moose third party. He was that kind of in the 1920s, the closest thing to a modern parallel would be colin powell, say, in the 1990s or early, you know, 2000s. Someone who frankly should have made the party proud to have as a member, but whom the base would instinctively shy away from as a statement there are. Statement bearer. Brian how big did he win by . Richard he won big, over 6. 5 15 milliones to votes. However, beneath the numbers there were portents of the future. One reason why al smith is held in i think higher regard than most unsuccessful candidates, there is a real sense that smith started something. The best evidence of that is cities american cities. ,calvin coolidge carried new york city, the last republican to do so. Al smith of course carried new york city, but he carried a lot of other cities as well. You had actually the makings of an early realignment. Had there not been the Great Depression, and hoovers reputation had in fact not been destroyed during his single term of office, what is fascinating to speculate is would that break through in the south, would that have been a onetime event, attributable to al smith as an opponent, or might it in fact have foreshadowed the party system . Brian how did the Great Depression come about . Richard i, i cannot tell you. I cannot answer that. I think there are a lot of economists who, if they are honest would respond the same , way. There are clearly a number of factors, some of which are easily identified. I mean the dislocations of the , war. Crazy quotecrazy, system, where as part of the versailles agreement, basically crushing reparations were demanded by the victors of defeated germany which was really in no position economically. Although they had been rather unscathed by the war. Nevertheless. So you had this crazy system where germany is borrowing money from the United States. United states came out of world war i the new financial centerpiece of the world. New york supplanted london. The United States came out of world war i for the first time in its history a creditor nation. The rest of the world owed it. But you had this system where american banks were loaning money to germany, who used the money to pay off the reparations. Anyway. In addition, domestically you had a rotten banking system, totally unregulated. There were banks that were speculating on the stock market. They were banks that were doing things with deposited money that would shock us today. You had wall street speculation, rank, overheated, baseless. Lots of people buying stock on margin, which is to say in effect they were borrowing funds headed for the stock market. If the stock market ever went down, particularly if it went down sharply, they would have to sell their stock to pay what they had bought. The whole system was jerrybuilt. Hoover believed it was the cubit of impact of the war, and the dislocations brought about the war. And it was true it was an international phenomenon. It was not limited to the United States. But i, for the life of me, cannot give you a single reason. One very important contributing factor was that glut of consumer goods in the 1920s. I mean ironically, hoover, who celebrated the abundance of modern industry, you know, cars were affordable. So were refrigerators. So were other appliances. Homes, all of the homes he built. But lots of them were bought on credit. But more than that, radio. I mean, aviation. You had these new industries that were taking off. But the market became literally glutted. One thing economists know is that wages failed to keep pace with prices. So you had this gap, which grew. And the same time, you had millions of people who were in effect overcommitted. They were living, in effect, paychecktopaycheck, they were speculating in stocks. But eventually, the purchasing power being what it was and remember, the farmers were depressed. And it is hard, you know, 40 , 40 of the American Workforce in the 1920s was in agriculture. So when you talk about an agricultural depression, nearly half the country was depressed long before wall street collapsed. One other thing that is so easy to overlook when youre looking at the failure of the economy to respond to the various stimulative efforts of hoover, and some even later, fdr, you have to remember how tiny a percentage of the american gdp went to the government in those days. When hoover became president in 1929, the federal budget was less than 4 billion. And a substantial part of that was going to veterans. He vetoed the veterans bonus for which he paid a very high price. And in fact it was one of those classic cases. You have been run this town long enough, there are instances where congress will pass something knowing the president will veto it so they dont have to take the heat. The veterans bonus, which had been promised to world war i veterans, but many years down the road, i think in the 1940s, well, of course there was this understandable groundswell demanding an early payment of the bonus. A 3 billion a year budget could have been doubled and it would have been like throwing a pebble into the river. I mean criticism of hoover for not being sufficiently vigorous in exerting the potential of the government to affect the economy overlooked how limited was the effect. And the other thing is, you know, like all of us, in retrospect we see all kinds of things that we did not see at the time. Keynesian economics, the idea that government in buff times budget inhe other words, that it should do everything they can to boost purchasing power. Depressions are all about deflation. So if you could inflate the economy, presumably that is the necessary medicine. Keynesian knew about economics in the 1920s. In fact there was a famous incident in 1935 or 1936, Something Like that, where fdr meets professor keynes. He was cordial but it was very clear that fdr was not intellectually a convert or even politically a convert to keynesian economics. There were all sorts of factors. That is not to excuse hoover. Hoovers great failing, and we can talk about some other things at the time hoover exists in the shadow of fdr. Fdr did so much more. But in the context of the time, what hoover did was seen as so much more than his predecessors. Remember we had had Great Depressions before. Monroevan buren, james Grover Cleveland in the 1890s. The notions that the government, the federal government especially, would step in and try to correct the economic cycle, was heresy. Depressions were acts of god. They were booms and they were busts, and there was nothing you could do about it. And that is the philosophy that, for example, andrew mellon, who was hoovers holdover secretary of the treasury, maintained. He basically told the president , flush out the system. All of the bad, the crooked bankers, the speculators, all of that, you know, that was hobbesian economics. And hoovers response was to get himself a new secretary of the treasury. He sent mellon to the court of st. James. But the other thing is we tend to think that the stock market collapsed in october 1929 and the next day there were bread lines. This took time to evolve. Early in 1930, the new york times, among other media outlets, praised hoover for doing more than any other president before under the circumstances. Hoover did not believe in boom and bust. In fact, to go back to Warren Hardings administration, as secretary of commerce, there was a severe recession right after world war i. And it was hoover who was in effect delegated with responsibility, and what he did was, among other things, greatly increase public works spending. Which again is in many ways a foreshadowing what we associate with the new deal. Likewise, hoover immediately, again voluntary association. Hoover called to the white house for jawboning of dozens of the nations leading business executives. He got them to agree to undertake an increase in their commitments. Wages he talked to henry ford, who initially agreed to increase worker wages. He contacted all the governors of the states, the 48 states and appealed to them to step up, increase, accelerate public works programs. He himself went to congress and asked for 115 million, more than any president before him, in fact more than most president s combined, and that was just the first installment. So the idea that he did nothing you know is pretty thoroughly disabused. So why is he, 70, 80 years later, pilloried . Why is he indelibly, personally associated with the Great Depression . There are a number of reasons for that. One, the democrats brilliantly hired a man called Charlie Michelson who i work who worked for, i think, the baltimore sun. You might say he invented negative politics in the way we would understand it. His sole job day in and day out ens to black and to black the reputation of the president , to drive home in voters minds that this man was heartless this , man was responsible for the Great Depression, etc. Hoover unwittingly contributed to that by hoovers great failure you could say he had a failure of imagination. He should never have signed the smoothawley tariff in 1930, it was the worst possible time, it build walls around the American Economy and encouraged other countries to do the same. That was a real error in judgment. But hoovers great failing was temperamental. He tried to make a virtue out of it. He said, you cannot make a Teddy Roosevelt out of me. Go back to that 10yearold boy who did not know he could do something for pleasure without offending god. I always thought there was a direct connection between that and the adult hoover, who was in many ways emotionally stunted. He is the most improbable politician. Is every president is unique in his own way. One of the lessons i think that hoovers story teaches us is beware of successful businessmen, because the qualities that drive business success, the ability to work with a board of directors, the knowledge that your order will be carried out, thats not the same as working with congress. Hoover had poor relations with congress, which was nominally republican the first half of his term and then marginally democratic the second half. He didnt have the political he knew he didnt have the political skill, but that is the other lesson of the hoover presidency. Hoover is one of those very rare president S William Howard taft comes to mind, a sort of quasijames madison comes to mind. People who are almost too rational, too cerebral, who dont have in their dna whatever that political gene is that enables a lyndon johnson, in the most extreme example, to thrive. Brian what were the circumstances in 1932 . Did he run again and what happened . Richard he ran again, was nominated by a wish list republican convention. Something we havent mentioned is the prohibition, another issue that complicated life, particularly for the republicans, because by and large, they had a lot of rural supporters. The Republican Party was split on the issue of prohibition. Hoover, again, cosmopolitan figure who did not mind taking a drink, but who was sworn, unlike Warren Harding, to enforce the law. And in 1932, he was on the unpopular side of the issue. By 1932, there were a lot of people, including the regional supporters of prohibition, who concluded that in many ways this experiment had backfired. He was carrying that weight. He had the depression. [laughter] i mean, he had his own inability to inspire. You think of fdr and radio. Well, hoover was on radio. The difference was, hoover was excited ifif he got , he found it exciting speaking on the radio, and he said it was as exciting as talking to a doorknob. Again that is the literal that is the engineer. So anyway he ran again. , the bonus army came to town. And measures are still being debated, still the subject of controversy. He dispatched Douglas Macarthur, of all people, not to cross the bridge over into anacostia and set fire to the veterans camp as , macarthur took it upon himself to do. In fact hoover sent explicit orders to macarthur, and they were disobeyed. It was not the last time that Douglas Macarthur was to disobey executive authority. Brian how big did fdr win . Richard fdr swept the country. This man who had i mean, i dont think more modestly, jimmy carter between 1976 and 1980, but i dont think anyone has gone from an overwhelming mandate to when he was elected to such a powerful consensus he should leave office. I think roosevelt carried all but six states. And with it, congress. And then, of course, in some ways, what put the seal on hoovers reputation as a failed president was the next three months. The hooverroosevelt interregnum was so bad that the constitution was amended. President s used to be sworn in on march 4. It was decided that was too long. It was too long because it was too long in 1932, 1933. The two men had virtually no communication. I think it is safe to say hoover believed fdr was deliberately avoiding having any responsibility in the hopes that if things did go to hell, he would then receive the credit, and in many ways that is exactly what happened. The irony is, the banks were crashing at the end of the roof was falling in. And hoover could have closed the banks. But it was that some would say stubbornness. Some would say principle. I would say it was a lack of political finesse. But he insisted that fdr had to agree with him, it had to be a joint undertaking. And there is a difference. Fdr, who is not only a born politician but a natural pragmatist remember its fdr that says, try something, if it doesnt work, ok, but above all try something. Well, that is exactly what the American People wanted to hear after four years in which it was felt that nothing had been tried. In fact, a lot was tried, but it came very soon to be overshadowed by the scale and scope of what fdr undertook. Brian what were the circumstances in your life in 1984 when this book was published . Inhard gosh, i was living dc. I had published a big biography of thomas dewey that i had spent a year researching, came back to dc, was writing on a consulting basis for bob dole. For whom i had worked earlier and with whom i am very proud to say i have been associated over the years. I had done this book on thomas dewey, who in some ways is the ultimate overlooked historical figure. I mean the little man somebody stereotyped and written off who turned out to have a vastly more interesting and consequential life. And so in many ways, hoover was a very logical sequel. I didnt really think about it at that time. I had no political agenda. I visited west branch as an really and then and been really moved by the site. West branch, iowa where hoover was born and is buried. The birthplace is a little 14 by 20 house the size of the average american living room today, a little whitewashed cottage. 450 yards away, called the are very simple graves of president and mrs. Hoover. He made one wish known, and that was that nothing ever be planted or build that would interfere with the view. He wanted people to stand at his grave and look off at the little house where he was born and draw the conclusion that he had drawn, that was that america apart was the fact that the circumstances of your birth in no way limited the potential of your life. Brian it is 1984 when you wrote this book. It was published. When did you run the Hoover Library and why . Richard in fact out of this , book, i guess, i had no idea the time i was planting a seed of what would be a 17year career at five president ial libraries. I was called by john foster, who was a consultant from west branch iowa, at the national , archives and running the president ial library system, which was a good deal smaller in those days. He asked me out of the blue, ive never been more surprised in my life, would you have any interest in being the director of the Hoover Library . I thought immediately, what a wonderful job. People around me, i was at that point i was working at p. Wilsons office, a senator for california, writing speeches. And people thought, why on earth would you want to go to live in west branch, iowa . Population 1800, which taught you more about them than it did about west branch. Anyway i left washington and had a whale of a time, spent over six years learning my trade in west branch, making some friends for life. I did it in reverse. I wrote the book and then became director of the library, and that was the first of several. Brian what would you say was the most significant, and we only have a minute and a half, the most significant thing hoover did that is still in this country to this day . Richard you can look physically at hoover dam. It is no accident his name was put on it. Because he, as secretary of commerce, negotiated a compact with seven states, Rocky Mountains states, over the water of the Colorado River that they were all fighting over, water itng dear in the west than is now. And the result was hoover dam. That is the most obvious physical legacy. Much more important, i would argue, however, is the example of a businessman who walked away from his fortune. He said literally, let the fortune go to hell. First to feed belgium, and then to organize American Relief and ultimately to go on to save more lives than hitler, stalin, and mao together could eliminate. Not a bad epitaph. Brian thank you, Richard Norton smith, for helping us on our series on president s. The name of the book, on amazon and other places as a used book, this one by the way comes from a library in milford, michigan, the one that i have. The name of the book is an uncommon man the triumph of Herbert Hoover. And we thank you very much. Richard thank you. Announcer 1 for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at qanda. Org. Q a programs are also available as cspan podcasts. This is American History tv on cspan3 where each weekend we feature 48 hours of her grams exploring our nations past. We begin with scholars from rice and georgetown universities on u. S. Naval war college role of middle east oil in American Foreign policy since ii. End of world war American History tv, this week cspan 3. Eekend on mr. Henesy my name is greg henesy. Im one of the people who give school tours to the weeks and the world war ii section. In this area we have set up represents the buildings we quickly put up at the start of world war ii. The reason we had to cook up with them up as we were not prepared for war. The u. S. Military had less than 350,000 soldiers at the outbreak of world war ii. The army, navy, and marines combined