Studies. Welcome to our viewers online. My name is jacob kurtzer, im the acting director of the humanitarian agenda here, a project that we seek to leverage the expertise of our scholars and programs to offer policy solutions to humanitarian problems in the world today. I would like to direct everyones attention to our emergency exits, its part of our safety and security plan, and encourage you also to take this opportunity to turn your phones to mute. I want to acknowledge before we begin the partnership that our program has with the agency for International Development office of foreign Disaster Assistance, whose support allows us to put on event, such as todays discussion. We have a short time today so ill be brief. All of us here today are keenly aware of the immense human suffering taking place in idlib and across syria right now. Families and individuals have been forced into multiple displacements, with targeted attacks ongoing on innocent civilians and on hospitals and clinics all of which challenges our notions of shared humanity. The escalation of violence this past weekend only increase the urgency of finding Durable Solutions for the humanitarian challenges face bid the population of syria. I have to say that while were very grateful to our speaker today for joining us and for hosting and for having this event today, i find it deeply distressing and disappointing that after so many years we continue to be hosting events on the same topic, highlighting the same challenges, and asking ourselves what we can do and what can be done. So without any further ado, i would like to turn it over to one of our regular partners in the humanitarian agenda, jon alterman. Dr. Alterman is the Senior Vice President and the director of the middle east program here. Hell introduce our speaker today. Thank you, doctor. [ applause ] thank you very much, jake, and thanks to the humanitarian agenda, thanks to usaid for their support of this program. The horrors of idlib, almost a Million People, many of them children, are trapped between armies. The province has doubled its population since war broke out as syrians sought refuge from fighting. Now 3 million syrians are huddled there, suffering from cold and lacking water, sanitation, and medical care. This has been occurring outside of the Public Awareness not because its unknowable but because the public is uninterested. Seized by coronavirus, a president ial campaign, a shaky economy, and rising populist sentiment in europe, the crisis in idlib gets little attention. Thats what brings us here. And were here to speak to a forceful humanitarian Whose Organization has been doing tremendous work to try to relieve some of the suffering in idlib. David miliband is president and ceo of the International Rescue committee where he oversees relief operations in more than 40 waraffected countries and its refugee and resettlement assistance programs in over 20 u. S. Cities. Under milibands leadership, the irc has expanded its ability to rapidly respond to humanitarian crises and to meet the needs of unprecedented number of people uprooted by conflict, war and disaster. The organization is implementing an ambitious global strategy to bring clear outcomes, strong evidence and Systematic Research to the humanitarian programs threw Collaborative Partnerships with the public and private sectors. Before he began this important work, he did other important work. From 2007 to 2010, he was the foreign secretary of the united kingdom. He graduated from oxford in 1987 with a first class honors degree in ppe, philosophy, politics, and economics, got a masters in Political Science in 1989 from m. I. T. , which he attended as a kennedy scholar. His accomplishments have earned him a reputation, in former president bill clintons words, as one of the ablest, most creative Public Servants of our time ands an impassioned advocate for the worlds poor people. Im pleased to introduce to you mr. David miliband. [ applause ] thank you very much, jon, thank you, jake. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Ambassadors, excellencies. Also thank you to usaid, who are your partner and also our partner, the office of foreign Disaster Assistance gives foreign aid a good name. Its a flexible entrepreneurial, committed partner of ours. Its a nice link that theyre also partners of yours. Im afraid that the timing of this event is very, very good for all of the wrong reasons. The situation today in northwest syria is beyond desperate. As i know from our own staff on the ground, life, never mind livelihood, is daily in doubt. As jake referred to, the Turkey Russia syria clashes should underline to all of us that the wider diplomatic vacuum, notable for the absence of coordinated european engagement, notable also, im sorry to say, for the absence of the United States, is a real danger not just to humanitarian need but also to wider regional stability. My purpose in making this speech today is in part to bring the humanitarian reality of idlib to washington, to speak up for our staff and for the people who they serve, in the hope that theres still room for humanity and principle in the corridors of power here. There are few countries with the capacity to shift the dynamic in syria and the u. S. Is one of them. So i hope there is resonance in what i describe today as well as brainstorming amongst all of us here in the conversation after my speech about what to do about it. But as well as bringing idlib to washington today, the situation in idlib to washington, i also want to make a wider argument, and this is the wider argument that im going to try to make. Its that the war in syria is not just a disaster. Its an argument that the war in syria will dangerously become a byword, a precedent for a new normal of brutal, divisive, contagious conflict. Impunity on the battlefield, stalling of diplomacy, the u. N. Pulled from pillar to post, the aid system inadequate, neighboring states creaking under the strain of refugees, western policy befuddled by a mixture of dysfunction, division, and denial. That is the reality of the syrian story over the nine years that jake referred to. And the danger is that it becomes copied elsewhere. Here is what im going to do today. First, summarize the Current Situation across syria starting in idlib. Second, explain how we see syria as a warning for the changing nature of conflict around the world today. Third, set out some shortterm imperatives for how to save lives today. And fourth, draw some wider lessons for humanitarians and diplomats. I think we all know that the assault on idlib is intended by the Syrian Government to represent the grim climax of the nineyear war in syria. 950,000 syrians have fled since december with another 400,000 at risk of joining them. The largest civilian displacement since the war started nine years ago. So, yes, there have been conversations about syria and debates about syria over the nine years. This is the largest displacement reflecting some of the most virulent fighting. Every single day, another 11,000 civilians join the hundreds of thousand thousands on the run. Among those forced to flee are about 20 of our local irc staff who attempt to preserve their own work as well as their own families as they do so. Over 80 of those on the run are women and children. Many are out in the cold, braving freezing temperatures, about 20,000 with no shelter at all. Freezing rain and snow which has led to the deaths of about seven children in the last month, deaths from freezing itself. Attacks on Health Facilities represent some of the most egregious war crimes and are taking place despite specific calls from u. N. Security Council Resolutions for them to be stopped. In the past three weeks alone, the irc and other organizations we work with have had to suspend operations in a number of Health Facilities and relocate an entire fleet of ambulances because they were being attacked. In total more than 80 Health Facilities in Idlib Province have now been closed. Its also the case that the situation has deteriorated so far that all of the u. S. Based ngos have come together in the global Emergency Response coalition, which is a humanitarian alliance, to launch only the second ever joint appeal in our history to raise funds for deployment inside idlib. The fact that the exodus in idlib is the greatest since the war began is testimony to the virulence and brutality of the fighting there. I dont think it should obscure that there is fighting in other parts of the country. The region is still recovering from the consequences of the turkish offensive five months ago. Just last month a u. S. Convoy exchanged fire with a pro government militia while driving through a checkpoint. Meanwhile elsewhere, the Islamic State has been damaged but not vanquished. While the group is not nearly as deadly as in the past, it remains a persistent threat, carrying out regular ied attacks and shootings in places like raqqah east of the euphrates and temporarily capturing villages and bombing oil and gas facilities west of the river. In areas previously of opposition control, which have since been retaken by the syrian military, we know from our own staff that the end of formal fighting has not led to an end to the violence or an improvement in the civilian populations, humanitarian situation. Charles lister counts more than 350 attacks in the past three months in the southwest of the country where the civil war began including an attack last month that killed two oxfam workers. The situation resembles a frozen conflict rather than an emergent peace. Meanwhile, outside syria, the situation of nearly 6 million syrians who fled across the border shouldnt be forgotten. 78 of syrians in jordan live below the poverty line. Half of the 500,000 syrian refugee children in lebanon are still out of school nine years into the war. And its worth noting, and im sorry to say this as someone who is a foreigner in america, i live and work here and i have huge admiration and respect for the country, but the following is almost the most stunning statistic of all those ill give you. It relates to the continued shame for the u. S. That this country has made it so difficult for syrian families to find refuge here. Remember the statistics. 3. 5 million refugees in turkey, 3. 7, maybe, 915,000 in lebanon, 655,000 in jordan, 567,000 in germany. Just 563 syrians were let into the United States last fiscal year. And only 320, not 320,000, 320, are on track to enter this fiscal year. Thats what the reduction in the Refugee Resettlement program has meant for syrians hoping to find safety here. Meanwhile, the Syrian Government has made no secret of the fact that syrians who fled to neighboring countries as refugees are not welcomed back. The government has levied a wide range of charges against returning refugees meaning many of them risk imprisonment and torture if they try to return. They also use the infamous law 10 to prevent refugees from having a place to come home to. Finally, the conduct of the war will make reconstruction and attempts to recreate some sense of normality all but impossible in decades to come. Just 9 of the syrian population are currently served by functional Wastewater Treatment plants. 46 of Health Facilities are not fully functional with one in three schools are damaged or destroyed. This is a decadeslong trauma that is going to affect future generations as well as the current one. The broader point, though, i think is really important. The catastrophe in idlib, and this is the third thing i want to talk about, how we should understand the situation in syria today as symptomatic of a wider, what i call, age of impunity. The catastrophe in idlib and the wider consequences of the conflict are symptoms of the utter failure of diplomacy and the abandonment by the International Community of syrian civilians. It also foreshadows an even darker trend towards impunity. An era characterized by disregard for the rule of International Law and an even graver deficit of International Diplomacy which allows the suffering of civilians to continue unabated. The brutal siege tactics, the abduction of aid workers, the use of chemical weapons, public beheadings in town squares. These crimes are bad enough. But accountability has so far been all but nonexistent. The majority of the blame lies with the allied syrian, russian, and iranian forces. As the u. N. High commission for human rights pointed out, of the roughly 300 civilian deaths in northwest syria this year, 93 were caused by the Syrian Government and its foreign allies. But in the process of so blatantly violating the laws of war, those countries have spurred a race to the bottom. It gives me no pleasure to point out that in the effort to take back raqqah from Islamic State, the u. S. Led operation destroyed or damaged more than 11,000 buildings in the city and has taken no responsibility for reconstruction. This can only undermine calls for, quote unquote, restraint from Russian Forces in idlib. I believe and fear that what were seeing in syria is not unique, and that it foreshadows a dangerous trend, where the laws of war so carefully built up after the second world war, become optional. I think its important to understand what the drivers are of this age of impunity. And i would put to you there are four. First, war is now increasingly urban. So the distinction between civilians and soldiers is eroded. This is a major reason why the war in syria has displaced more than 11 Million People. And here is an interesting thing. According to Steven Feldstein at carnegie, since 1945, an average of five people were displaced for every one person killed in conflict. In syria that 51 ratio is 251. Second, the battlefield in syria is increasingly crowded, filled by nonstate actors who have the consolation of Free Syrian Army groups, extremist groups, local Partner Forces like the u. S. Backed Syrian Democratic forces, and foreign militaries from turkey and the u. S. To russia and iran. The involvement of so many groups, more than a hundred in syria, according to the arms conflict location and event data project, has fractured the battlefield geographically but also hierarchically, given the often unclear chain of command within each of these groups. Furthermore, and here is the point, its not just well, ill go on to the point. Third point for you, the large presence of foreign militaries has made the war far deadlier for civilians due to the increased firepower they bring to an otherwise, quote unquote, civil war. As demonstrated by the widespread russian air strikes on cities like idlib. The issue is not just the imbalance of Foreign Forces in syria. Its the mere presence of them. In total, 70 countries now contribute troops to conflicts in other countries according to the Peace Research institute of oslo. So the syria phenomenon does not stand alone. Its increasingly common elsewhere. Just think about somalia, iraq, mali, elsewhere. And the fourth driver of this age of impunity needs to be talked about. Its an obvious point, dramatized in the title of this years munich security conference. The title was, quote unquote, westlessness. It takes a german speaker to find a way of encapsulating the trauma of or the dysfunction of western policy, westlessness. The absence of the west in the syria end game is not only a military question outside the northwest of the country. Syria is low, very low, on the western diplomatic priority list. And Foreign Policy is very low on the political priority list. In fact, fear of entanglement largely outweighs commitments to halt the suffering. And the roots of this absence are obviously the failures in iraq and afghanistan, the lingering effects of the financial crisis. But when liberal democratic countries committed to human rights are absent, then those who regard those rights as an inconvenience are obviously given free rein and thats what were seeing. Although syria is the poster child for the age of impunity, if you look at civilian deaths, if you look at killing of aid workers, if you look at a range of indicators of children caught up in conflict, syria is not an outlier. Its part of a trend. And so that leads to the concluding or prescriptive parts of my remarks. I want to, first of all, talk about the shortterm relief in idlib and then come to the wider lessons. The immediate need in syria is a ceasefire, obviously, increased, unimpeded access to civilians in need. But there is no chance of this happening and little point in people calling for it without a strategic decision in washington and european capitals that syria matters enough to require all the costs that come with engagement of any kind. Since im running a humanitarian ngo, i have to steer away from the military side of these questions other than saying that all military decisions should be taken with a view to their humanitarian consequences. But even short of the military questions, once a decision is taken that engagement is right, there are ways to increase the costs on those who are perpetrating crimes on the battlefield. For example, instead of u. N. Member states and u. N. Officials expecting each other to address the crisis, both need to step up. Ive suggested secretary General Gutierrez spearhead the organizations. A ministerial session in which the u. N. Human Rights Council briefs members and requires them to account for the human rights abuses and war crimes that are taking place in syria. There needs to be engagement by western powers with the seriousness of the situation, a meeting was planned, it seems to be off now, between chancellor merkel and president s erdogan, putin, and macron. It now seems that will be a bilateral president putin president erdogan meeting. A wider meeting makes sense but where is the u. S. In that story . Also the widening of aid corridors and flows, the renewal of crossborder aid, the reopening of the crossing in the east, are essential. Two crossing points for aid were closed in january and without action, another two will be closed in july. Make no mistake, the humanitarian situation could deteriorate much further. Further, we need accountability for crimes committed following up on each of the media reports that contain such chilling footage. Its surprising to see that there are no eu sanctions on russia for their actions in syria. Accountability needs to start with the report of the board of inquiry, the u. N. Board of inquiry into attacks on civilian infrastructure in syria due to report next week. The inquiry is a litmus test for meaningful accountability and we should all judge the report accordingly. The inquiry in my view should name perpetrators, and its findings must be made public. Finally, the multilateral framework for political talks thats been elbowed aside by the countries of the estona process. Thats russia, turkey, iran and syria itself is essential. Theyve been unwilling to improve the humanitarian situation in the country. The fact that there is something called a u. N. Process shouldnt fool anyone into thinking that it currently exercises real leverage over the actions of the parties. There wont be a solution until that changes. Now, in addition to these shortterm measures, which are my daytoday concern, i also think its incumbent on me to discuss a far more thorough set of issues raised by the conflict in syria, as well as the dangers it portends for the global system. I want to say its important to have some humility in this task. Hindsight is 2020 and theres never been a clear or obvious path to resolving the war and preventing civilian suffering. But some things are obvious in retrospect and were actually pointed out by many people at the time. For example, quote unquote, assad must go, is not a strategy. Neither is, quote unquote, keep the oil. Red lines are not red unless theyre enforced. Counterterrorism is a bandaid, not a solution. Other things, though, other lessons are more complicated and, therefore, more difficult. And for the benefit of the discussion, i want to highlight for lessons that i think are serious because syria doesnt represent an outlier, it represents a trend. The first is the lesson that International Humanitarian law will become optional unless it receives a surge of support. I want to quote foreign minister lavrov of russia on this, because at the u. N. General Assembly Last year he rightly said, quote, attacks on International Law are looming large. Many will see some irony in this, given the situation in syria. He called out what he sees as an american philosophy of, quote, i do as i please. I do as i please is precisely the problem, but to state the obvious, its not confined to the u. S. I want to remind you that International Humanitarian law was developed on the basis of the lessons of history. After the second world war, with a view, especially of the interwar period. These laws do not judge the military mission but demand it be pursued with necessity, proportionality, and distinction. When appropriately applied the laws of war limit harms to civilians in conflict zones and offer soldiers a roadmap to pursuing their mission with honor and valor intact. But now International Humanitarian law is under siege. I want to suggest that its defense needs a threepronged effort from Civil Society, from us in the absence of government leadership. First, we need to strengthen the ability of people on the ground to safely record and document abuses. Technology companies have a vital role to play in this. Second, on the basis of that documentation, we need to use the laws that exist to push back against the perpetrators. That doesnt just mean the International Criminal court to which syria is not a signatory. It also means examples like the german ngo, the European Center for constitutional and human rights, which has filed a criminal suit against syrian generals on the principle of universal jurisdiction. And third, countries who support International Humanitarian law should use the economic tools at their disposal such as the magnitsky act and the newly passed in the u. S. Caesar act. The second lesson of syria is that we need the independent, principled and voice of the United Nations more than ever. Reporting on breaches of the u. N. Charter, exposing abuses of human rights, working furiously to overcome obstacles put in the way of fulfillment of basic u. N. Principles. The work of u. N. Staffers on the ground around the world is, as ive seen for myself, committed and brave. But the gridlock at the Security Council and the need to gain support of National Governments in countries where the u. N. Works threatens the freedom of the u. N. , its agencies, and its officials to speak out. This needs to be of widespread concern. The ability to speak truth to power is one of the u. N. s great strengths. When then high commissioner of human rights al hussein condemned what happened in myanmar in 2017 as, quote, a textbook of ethnic cleansing, his words rightly reverberated around the world. Yet those are precisely the people whose funds pay the bills, nominate officials and control agendas. Its said that the u. N. Is only as strong and principled as its member states, especially the powerful permanent members of the Security Council. But the u. N. Charter gives independent backing to the work of officials. On issues like climate change, the independent work of u. N. Bodies has been vital in building the body of evidence necessary to urge the world to act. I would argue that in matters of peace and security, we cannot afford the power of the u. N. To bear witness to what is happening on the ground to be compromised. The third lesson concerns the danger that military power renders diplomacy irrelevant. In syria, russia and iran have shown how hard power still matters. However many times diplomats say there is no military solution, it remains the case that military power can subjugate populations and win wars even where it cannot win the peace. The situation where a government is willing to kill its own people challenges diplomacy as well as law. And here i think for an american audience its really important to draw the contrast between northeast syria and northwest syria. Its striking and instructive. In the former, in the northeast, there is a tenuous balance of power sustained by American Military decisions and some scope for power sharing. In the latter, in the northwest, as were seeing, there is no similar balance, no constraint on the use of syrian, russian, and iranian power and no prospect of power sharing as turkey has proven both unable to deter syrian aggression and unwilling to emphasize civilian protection in its military efforts. I think all of us have far more serious thinking to do about what is meant by a, quote unquote, political solution, because the truth of the last nine years is that its been far clearer what people want to see a transition from, not what they want to see a transition to. We have to think much harder about what conditions are possible to bring about a political solution and the consequences for diplomacy when those conditions are not present. While the presence of troops is insufficient on its own to resolve the underlying challenges of power sharing and governance, their absence can make political reconciliation impossible. And representing an agency that works in all of the worlds conflict zones, we see that more and more. The fourth and final lesson of syria is that the regime of refugee support has never been more needed and never been more inadequate. This certainly needs another lecture. But here are three obvious points. First, countries like lebanon, turkey, and jordan have been sheltering millions of refugees yet the main burden has been borne by their host populations. And that is not sustainable. Hosting refugees is a Global Public good and it needs to be supported by the international system. And while the world bank has made some good steps in this direction, we need to go far further. Second, refugees have for a long time been assumed to be in greater need than those who are internally displaced. One lesson of syria is that this assumption does not always hold true. The idp, the internally displaced shepherded into idlib are more at risk than their relatives who made it out of the country. And third, the loss of the u. S. As a champion of Refugee Resettlement and Refugee Rights is echoing loudly around the world. Although u. S. Resettlement numbers will never match those in refugee hosting states like lebanon and jordan, the symbolic value of a robust Refugee Resettlement program is high. And its absence has made it significantly harder for refugee hosting governments to step back to step up to their legal obligations. The west can make no claim to help Syrian Refugees when they refuse to take them in and then expect host governments to pick up the tab. The absence of this effective regime leads to the situation that is in the headlines today. Turkey, using refugees as desperate leverage against europe, and europe, not really knowing how to react, the boomerang effect of neglecting refugee support for the nine years of the war now comes home to roost. Europe needs to be more than on the alert. It needs to be galvanized into action before its too late to prevent another refugee crisis in europe. Let me just finish on the following note. Theres no doubt about the scale of the syria fatigue that is felt outside the country. You referred, jon, to the difficulty of getting attention for this crisis. My point would be, what right do we have to be fatigued compared to the people who are inside syria . Those Million People displaced from idlib over the last three months have in many cases been displaced two, three, or four times before. The population of the province has been doubled by the influx of those displaced from elsewhere in syria. But if we know anything, its this. What starts in syria does not end in syria. That should worry us all. That is why this issue belongs at the top of the agenda of policymakers as well as humanitarians. Syrias trauma represents many of the sins of commission but also sins of omission. This is what we must seek to put right lest this new decade becomes one of impunity. Thank you very much indeed. [ applause ] david, thank you very much for that very powerful talk that gave us a lot to think about. I was struck by that phrase that you used, the age of impunity. And there are arguments that some make that we need to ready recognize that the assad regime has won, that it is conquering the last remaining corners of the country, and we have to deal from that reality, especially because theres no diplomacy thats going to change that reality. How, as a humanitarian who in many ways has had to work with repressive governments all the time, how should we think about their rehabilitation of the assad regime, the assad government, and what messages that sends about impunity for actions Going Forward . Is that a reward to assad . Look, i think the first thing to say is if youre representing a humanitarian organization or if youre a humanitarian aid worker, you dont take sides. Youre on the side of the people in need. Its really important to our ability to work to do that. As it happens, we worked in syria before 2011. We were there from 2008 to 2010. The reasons we were asked to leave have never been made clear. And we hold very firmly to the principle that we do not judge the merits of the sides that we are working with. However, secondly, we do have to speak to reality. And the reality at the moment is that about 6. 5, 7 million of syrias remaining 16 million population are living in areas outside government control. Theyre living in the northeast of the country, 3. 5 million, theyre living in idlib, 3 million or so. Now, heres the thing about the bombardment thats happening at the moment, the military action taking place in idlib at the moment. No one can show that it is advancing the military goal that has been set. Russia has set the military goal. President assad has signed up to it, which is to remove those in governments of that territory, those are a group affiliated with al qaeda and various others. Now, the bombing happening at the moment is killing civilians. It is not removing terrorist groups or other nonstate actors. And we have to speak to that reality. We are bearing witness to that reality every day. Thirdly, and finally, you referred to the rehabilitation of the assad regime. I would argue that any government has in its own hands to rehabilitate itself through its actions. Its not the judge its not the role of outsiders to do that. By their actions shall we know them. And the point about accountability for war crimes is that it doesnt last. Its absolutely essential that if the message is not, does not go out, that crimes will be held, people will be held accountable for their crimes, then you are encouraging more of them. And thats why i think it is very important that Civil Society plays the kind of role that i very briefly alluded to in my talk. Its not about denying the reality is that exists on the ground. Its not about taking sides in a dispute. Its about recognizing that if the law is not upheld then the law becomes a mess, and that is dangerous for everyone. How would you make the case to the American Public that is fatigued by almost 20 years of war in the middle east, that they actually should care about these issues, that they should care about International Hum humanitarian law, that it affects things here in addition to things there . I think there are two paths to that. One is i dont think we should duck the moral argument. I think its really important in speaking to any audience not to be so afraid of seeming bighearted that you run away from the monologue. Im happy to make the argument to any american audience that the freezing to death of children under trees in idlib is a moral outrage that they should be concerned about as human beings, and as human beings who are citizens of a powerful country. The fact that those children are freezing to death because theyve been bombarded from their homes by their own government, i think it doubles the case. And i dont think one should run away from that. However, anyone who tries to only sit on the moral high ground is doomed to failure, and so i would also say that it is essential, and i think this is something that humanitarians arent always good at, is that we should make the strategic geopolitical interest based argument as well as the moral, if you like, humanitarian argument. And the geopolitical argument is that American Interests are engaged. Theyre engaged in the following ways. One, america has interests across the middle east and whats happening in syria will not end in syria or destabilize those partners, those allies of america in the middle east. Second the russian entry into the middle east or reentry into the middle east is a very significant geopolitical change. And if america wants to be playing a role in the middle east, its going to have to show how its going to be done. Thirdly, i would argue that americas role in the global system, and American Interests in the global system arent just those that are demonstrated by giving, theyre demonstrated by taking as well, and america has been able to benefit from the rule of International Law around the world, and it loses when those laws are undermined. Fourth and final point and i hope doesnt sound selfinterested coming from a european and i happen to be a brit who still refers himself as european. I still believe that america has a strong interest in its democratic allies in europe being sustained in their strength and in their stability. And there is no question that already with the dangers that pose from migration flows from libya, which is something very much on european policy makers minds, they also have to be concerned about further unplanned, unregulated, disorganized flow of people from the middle east as well. And so for that reason, i would say there is an American Interest in that, and in a world where 113 countries have suffered reductions in democratic freedom over the last 13 years, its even more important that europe and america stand together. And so i would say that that would be the fourth part of my argument. Now youll have to tell me whether that will win any followers in, across the u. S. But thats the best i can do. Let me ask you a brief british question, not a european question. Its notable that britain doesnt really have is not at the forefront of diplomacy on this issue. As a briton, do you feel that is a mistake for british interests . Do you feel there is a way that britain might demonstrate the role of upholding a moral structure that the United States is not playing in . I would hope so. It grieves me that i can make a speech about how there is a key meeting being on again, off again meeting. A macron Merkel Erdogan meeting, and ive heard no clamor of people saying no, no, no there is no meeting that meeting will succeed unless you invite Boris Johnson as well. There is a real absence there. And its striking to me that a country that is still a member of the Security Council, whose diplomats make strong statements at the Security Council has not got Political Leadership but wants to engage in this kind of geopolitical question. I dont want to overclaim for what the u. K. Can do, but i am deeply concerned that brexit will be an era of british isolation, and thats i think not good for britain, and modestly, i would suggest it is not good for the wider world either. One more question before we go to the audience. The u. S. And its allies have been pretty adamant that there will not be assistance to syria until theres a political settlement that brings in the opposition. Is that sustainable . Is that a mistake . Does there come a point where the world should relax that for the good of the people who you rightly described had been suffering and will be suffering . I think, i hold a very strong view if that if youre a civilian in a governmentcontrolled area of syria, you have rights to, a, that theyre not being met by your own government, in the same way that if our youre a civilian in a rebelheld area of syria, you have that right. Now, in the same way when the u. N. Is delivering aid inside governmentheld areas of syria, which it is, thats being paid for by american and european taxpayers, so youre right that reconstruction aid is being when would, but humanitarian aid is not being when would. And i would argue strongly against humanitarian aid being when would. And one of the levers that does exist, its put by european policy makers more strongly, but its been mover a debate there, is that its a card that cant just be given away. It would be very unwise to give that away. So i dont think that is trading away, i dont know quite how to put it, the lives of syrians, if youre living in a government controlled area and the government is not meeting your needs, and youre getting u. N. Aid, you should be thankful to the u. S. And european countryie, who are the main funders of those programs. I think the reconstruction of the country is a broader political construct, where you would expect the allies of that country to be engaged, not just those who have raised profound questions about its actions. We have time for a few questions, right there. Wait for the microphone if you would. Mckinley is right behind you. Never been hindered by not having a microphone. Thank you. David, thank you for an exemplary talk and one that hits i think beautifully all of the high points. But im aware at this time of another train wreck in the offing, and thats the strike of coronavirus on population of refugees like in africa and elsewhere where there is no Health System, or where the Health System is very, very deeply undermined, and this morning i heard vicksburgs repeat the view perhaps that between 40 and 70 of the worlds population in one way or another will experience this. So it isnt something that the refugees are likely to escape. And this is clearly something that involves people all around the refugee areas. Has there been any thinking about this, and any way to prepare for it . And, secondly, is there any longshot here where the devastation of perhaps 10 of mortality in this kind of a situation could lead to some kind of ceasefire . Weve seen this in other humanitarian tragedies in the past. Shortterm sometimes. Sometimes longterm. Sometimes leading to peace conversations. Its just an idea at this point. But no tragedy, i think, in one way or another, should be allowed to happen without thinking through the full range, and wed love to hear your comments. Well, look, tom, if you really want to know the way out of the syria mess, you should listen to him. He should have probably been giving the lecture, not me, given your Extraordinary Service and experience, and ideas. Just on coronavirus, id say two things. First of all, by some stroke of luck, the places where we do most of our work across africa and the middle east, some are saying in south asia as well, mercifully have been relatively speaking spared so far and this is worth being aware of that. Secondly, things could easily go very, very, very, very bad indeed, very quickly. Because if you think about the spread, the rate of spread in societies where there are advanced Health Systems, where there is advanced Public Health information, where there are extensive, where it is easy to access hygiene measures, just think of the speed of spread amongst populations where those things dont exist, where there suspect the Public Health infrastructure, where the idea of, its gone out of my mind, when you put, quarantine, where the idea of quarantine is absurd, in any kind of Mass Movement of people, whether idps or refugees, and here, its worth going back to that statistic. One in every 105 people in the planet has been displaced by war and conflict at the moment. 13 million in refugee and asylum seekers. 40 million internally displaced and maybe 60 of them are in the northern areas. Of the refugees, sorry. So youre absolutely right to draw attention to it. Were certainly scrambling to figure out the impact of our own staff, the impact of our own programs and if you think about our health program, to the extent of our Health Programs will be weakened by our staff getting it, that raises the danger of an outbreak among our clients. So if you want to get more depressed, you just have to think about the spread of coronavirus amongst the kind of populations that we help, and that is certainly a real clear and present danger, if not in this episode, then perhaps in the second half of the year. Iran certainly compared to many countries in the middle east has a fairly robust Public Health service. Which is a very good point. Iran, which has been devastated, is not among the most decrepit. Thats right. Remind me of the number of cases in iran. I think 3,000. I saw a hand over here. The microphone is coming. Right there. Good to see you again. Thank you for your comment. Your name, back to your point on technology. You have the reputation of being creative with the use of technology. And im just wondering if youve been out to silicone valley to challenge them to do more than invent more creative ways to deliver our groceries. Have they come up with good ways to deliver assistance, for example . Im improesed with the amount of video footage weve gotten out of syria as opposed to syria. Have they developed anything to help you . Yes and no. Even better ive been to dafbos where you can meet more people from Silicon Valley in a shorter period of time even than floig to palo alto. Weve also done work with partners in Silicon Valley and elsewhere. The shining example what we have been able to do is an information platform called signpost, in europe it was refugee. Info. A mill refugees used it on arrival in greece. Weve now expanded signpost to elvalvedor, its called quinto nose. Its taken on a 24 7 human ability to ask questions. You can say im on the run from a gang in el salvador. I need to know where i can find a safe house. This is where i am. Were able to answer. Thats impressive. Wed like to expand that to mexico and actually to the u. S. As well. So if theres anyone from the tech sector here or any philanthropits here, wed be happy to hear from them. On the side of safe reporting i remain very, very concerned. I think those who are caught in the midst of the fighting are in grave danger. But theyre also in grave danger from whats on their iphone if they get stopped at a checkpoint. There remains a lot of work to do to make it safe to upload information in a secure way. Yes, maam. Right there. Sasha. I wanted to focus on one of your last points from your presentation, which is reconstruction aid being withheld but humanitarian aid is not. The reason im asking this question is i worked in gazzientap, so the Turkish Border with syria, in 2017. With an implementing partner for the state department. And our program, which is called building the legit or was called building the legitimacy of local counsels was supporting the opposition counsels to make sure at the time in 2017 our presumption was, it wrote be gone, there would be a power vacuum, Lessons Learned would be dont leave a lack of governance for isis and others to fill. We wanted to make sure the local counsels had the ability to deliver services once assad was gone. Now that hasnt happened. Im concerned because ive been out of the picture for over a year now. Do you think that its worth there should be a push to continue reconstruction aid along the lines of supporting local counsels . Because it sounds like right now if thats being withheld, we are allowing there to be a vacuum in certain areas. Yeah. I cant speak to the details of the program that you were involved in. I certainly know in the northeast, there have been more efforts to develop the kind of systems that youre speaking to. Certainly our experience in delivering humanitarian aid is that where Civil Societies organized, its and its partnering with international players, its actually a very healthy model. I cant speak to the details of what youre talking about. I certainly think that in the northeast of the country, the need to help organize in civilian terms as well as military terms is evident. And it would stand to reason that it would make sense in the northwest, but i cant speak to the details of the program. Time for one more question right here in the front. Thank you. My name is im a syrian american. You talked earlier about making the case for engagement in syria. Syrian americans have been making that case for the last nine years both morally and from a geopolitical standpoint. Hearing your remarks, i know weve not been alone at screaming at the wall for the last nine years. I noted you were following the democratic debates including last week when there was mention of idlib base stage. You can imagine the difficulty of trying to get in the points, the moral or the strategic points about engagement in syria within a limited amount of time. My question is perhaps there are parallels between, you know, the trends within the labor party and the Democratic Party here in the u. S. , and sort of the growing space and permisibility or excuse me the growing space for disinformation within the leftwing movements. And particularly how progressive actors in the space who want to find the words and the gnomen clayture for enclajments in places like syria but making sure that some of the irresponsible voice whos have some of the loudest platforms arent getting more airtime . I think youre raising a profound question. When people say thats a great question, it means they dont know the answer. So that is a great question. [ laughter ] look, i think disinformation isnt confined to one side of the political spectrum, to state the obvious. I did think that it was good the debate asked the question because the previous had not. Frankly the fact that two 30second answers were allowed, one was about health care and the other was about what not to do. That was not encouraging. Then we were told we didnt have time to discuss syria. That wasnt a great advertizment for a small d democratic debate, not large d. I think theres no question that the failings and failure in iraq has clouded a lot of the debate. If you like you could say that the Syrian People are paying the price of the failure in iraq and various ways. I still do think, though, that the contrast if id had 30 seconds i would have talked about the contrast between the northeast and northwest. I think thats teachable. It doesnt say you then throw american troops into the northwest. But it shows you that american presence or absence makes a difference, and it mitigates against the temptation for broadbrush answers that try to make this a very binary divide. Equally, i think i suppose theres another there are two other things i should have said in answer to johns earlier question. One is that weve got a lesson to learn in the humanitarian movement that the real voices that are per situationive are not mine. Theyre on the receiving end. And the more that beneficiaries can be the spokespeople, the stronger the case that is made, the more able one is to appeal to peoples sense of humanity and interest. The second thing, though, is that theres a danger that it ends up sounding like youre asking for the whole of the u. S. Government to throw everything into syria. My reflex on six years working in humanitarian aid is how much difference you can make for a small amount of effort. Actually youre not asking for the whole government to be turned over to a policy problem. Were actually able to make more difference and maybe thats an argument that needs to be made, the outsize contribution that american words and deeds can have on this. I think your reflex on nine years of mabanging your head against the wall is sobering. Weve got to find other ways to make the case. I do think that america suffers when a war like that in syria takes the turn that it has. Thats a sobering set of observations. I think youve given us some tools to think through the future of this idea, the age of impunity is an idea we should be turning over as we think about resolving the conflict in dealing with the extraordinarily real and pressing humanitarian needs that you accurately describe. Please join me in thanking david miliband. [ applause ] John Charles Fremont brought the Pacific Coast into the United States. At the beginning of the story the United States didnt have a Pacific Coast. There was territory in oregon that was disputed with britain and there was california, which belonged to mexico. Fremont encouraged the american settlement of oregon and took part in the american con kwet of california, just in time for the gold rush. And so he did play a real role in changing the map of the United States. Npr host Steve Inskeep on his book imperfect union. Sunday night at 8 00 eastern on cspans q a. And were live now for the latest update on the federal response to the corona pandemic with dr. Robert redfield, head of the cdc, and dr. Anthony fouci, the leading disease authority. Along with other Public Health officials, they are back for a second day to testify before the House Oversight and reform committee. Their appearance yesterday was cut short when they were called to a white house meeting. Live coverage here on cspan3, we do expect to start here in just a moment. A live picture from capitol hill this morning as we wait to hear more on the spread of the coronavirus and the federal response. House oversight reform commit escheduled a second day of testimony from dr. Robert redfield, and dr. Anthony fouci, the Infectious Disease authority. Dr. Fouci there with his back toward us. To his right carolyn maloney. Both of the principals are in the room. The house is currently in recess, and reports saying that the coronavirus Economic Relief bill not quite ready for the floor yet. Speaker pelosi has been talking on the phone with Steven Mnuchin as they work out legislation that would be acceptable to Senate Majority leader mitch mcconnell. Well update you as details become available. The senate is in session today working on executive nominations. You can watch the house live on cspan and see the senate on cspan2. The committee will come to order. I thank all of our witnesses for returning this morning. We appreciate their recognition of our interests and over oversight responsibilities. This is a crisis that is evolving quickly. Since our hearing yesterday, the World Health Organization declared the